[FairfieldLife] Free Will, descriptions of Brahman, and the Turing test. (no way to tell!!)

2006-06-19 Thread matrixmonitor
Some of the ongoing discussions in this forum elicit a possible 
interface with the Turing test (below, entry copied from Wikipedia). 
Briefly, the person being tested sits behind a screen in which 
answers to questions are given, posed to (either) a real person OR a 
very intelligent computer.  Judging solely by the content and 
structure of the replies (and any other linguistic criteria - but not 
the sound of a voice, which has to be neutral); the querant has to 
decide if the entity on the other side of the screen is a person or a 
computer.
 Now feature an analogous situation in which person A claims to be 
Enlightened, and person or persons (B, C...) have to decide if A 
is really E'd or not.  As hinted at by various contributors to this 
forum, there are certain stock answers which can be repeated in 
boiler-plate fashion; so is the decision based on the content of the 
replies?  If B is Enlightened also, are there subtle types of 
perception which can ascertain the truth more readily?
 The lesson here is that the Internet is a type of blank screen. 
People can get lured into almost anything, on the basis of a vivid 
imagination filling in the blanks. Just last week, a young teenage 
female got suckered into actually traveling to the Middle East to 
meet some guy she met in a chat room!..
  It's quite possible, some of the contributors to this forum 
are actuallY' machines (computers) masquerading as humans. As a 
Turing test, there's no final way to know; since the even after 
decades since Turing's time (he was a British genius who contributed 
to breaking the German Code during WWII); nobody has yet (in theory) 
figured out a truly objective way to distinguish the replies of an 
intelligent machine from a human.
 Ultimately, we all could be Matrix entities living in a Matrix 
world, not knowing it.
 Now back to the article on Free Will. A key statement by the author 
of Free Will -- you only think you have it is And they 
[mathematicians Kochen and conway] admit there's no way for us to 
tell. Our lives could be like the second showing of a movie -- all 
actions play out as thoough they are free, but that freedom is an 
illusion, says Kochen.
 So, basically, the notion of a true free will based on an 
indeterministic level of QM reality (and thus, the whole ball of wax 
operates in the same mode);; incorporates the key point that there's 
no way for us to tell; ...judging by superficial appearances, if our 
will is free or not.  This could be a provable mathematical corollary 
to Kochen's and Conway's theorem..  In any event, the fact of our not-
knowing is in some ways like our incapacity to not know what's on the 
other side of that Turing machine.
 The fact that we can't tell if our will is free or not; leaves the 
door open for an ironic paradox: we can act AS IF our will is free, 
even if it isn't, and not be the worse for wear. We can't even tell 
if our actions are really free will or not.
 This begs the question:  Say 't Hooft's theory is true, and we don't 
have free will; but we are not given that information.  Note our 
actions under that circumstance; and then ask, would our actions 
differ if 't Hooft's theory is false?  Pershaps not, due to the 
possible corollary of Conways: that there's no way for us to tell. 
 






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[FairfieldLife] Free Will, descriptions of Brahman, and the Turing test. (no way to tell!!)

2006-06-19 Thread matrixmonitor
--Here's the Wiki paste-in:

Turing test
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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The Turing test is a proposal for a test of a machine's capability to 
perform human-like conversation. Described by Alan Turing in the 1950 
paper Computing machinery and intelligence, it proceeds as follows: 
a human judge engages in a natural language conversation with two 
other parties, one a human and the other a machine; if the judge 
cannot reliably tell which is which, then the machine is said to pass 
the test. It is assumed that both the human and the machine try to 
appear human. In order to keep the test setting simple and universal 
(to explicitly test the linguistic capability of the machine instead 
of its ability to render words into audio), the conversation is 
usually limited to a text-only channel such as a teletype machine as 
Turing suggested or, more recently IRC or instant messaging.

Contents [hide]
1 History 
2 Objections and replies 
3 Discussion of relevance 
4 Predictions and tests 
5 Terminology 
6 Variations of the Turing test 
7 References 
8 See also 
9 External links 
 


[edit]
History
The test was inspired by a party game known as the Imitation Game, 
in which a man and a woman go into separate rooms, and guests try to 
tell them apart by writing a series of questions and reading the 
typewritten answers sent back. In this game, both the man and the 
woman aim to convince the guests that they are the woman. Turing 
proposed a test employing the imitation game as follows: We now ask 
the question, 'What will happen when a machine takes the part of A in 
this game?' Will the interrogator decide wrongly as often when the 
game is played like this as he does when the game is played between a 
man and a woman? These questions replace our original, 'Can machines 
think?' (Turing 1950) Later in the paper he suggested 
an equivalent alternate formulation involving a judge conversing 
only with a computer and a man.

Turing originally proposed the test in order to replace the 
emotionally charged and (for him) meaningless question Can machines 
think? with a more well-defined one. The advantage of the new 
question, he said, was that it drew a fairly sharp line between the 
physical and intellectual capacities of a man. (Turing 1950)

[edit]
Objections and replies
Turing himself suggested several objections which could be made to 
the test. Below are some of the objections and replies from the 
article in which Turing first proposed the test.

Theological Objection: This states that thinking is a function of 
man's immortal soul and therefore a machine could not think. Turing 
replies by saying that he sees no reason why it would not be possible 
for God to grant a computer a soul if He so wished. 
Mathematical Objections: This objection uses mathematical theorems, 
such as Gödel's incompleteness theorem, to show that there are limits 
to what questions a computer system based on logic can answer. Turing 
suggests that humans are too often wrong themselves and pleased at 
the fallibility of a machine. 
Mechanical Objections: A sufficiently fast machine with sufficiently 
large memory could be programmed with a large enough number of human 
questions and human responses to deliver a human answer to almost 
every question, and a vague random answer to the few questions not in 
its memory. This would simulate human response in a purely mechanical 
way. Psychologists have observed that most humans have a limited 
number of verbal responses. 
Data Processing Objection: Machines process data bit by bit. Humans 
process data holistically. In this view, even if a machine appears 
human in every way, to treat it as human is to indulge in 
anthropomorphic thinking. 
Argument From Consciousness: This argument, suggested by Professor 
Jefferson Lister states, not until a machine can write a sonnet or 
compose a concerto because of thoughts and emotions felt, and not by 
the chance fall of symbols, could we agree that machine equals 
brain. Turing replies by saying that we have no way of knowing that 
any individual other than ourselves experiences emotions, and that 
therefore we should accept the test. 
Lady Lovelace Objection: One of the most famous objections, it states 
that computers are incapable of originality. This is largely because, 
according to Ada Lovelace, machines are incapable of independent 
learning. Turing contradicts this by arguing that Lady Lovelace's 
assumption was affected by the context from which she wrote, and if 
exposed to more contemporary scientific knowledge, it would become 
evident that the brain's storage is quite similar to that of a 
computer. Turing further replies that computers could still surprise 
humans, in particular where the consequences of different facts are 
not immediately recognizable. 
Informality of Behaviour: This argument states that any system 
governed by laws will be predictable and therefore not truly 
intelligent. Turing