[FairfieldLife] Re: Bootleg UK TM teachers
You are too kind. I live only for literature and music, and, yes, "a certain type of woman." --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long wrote: > > feste the only thing I've known you to have stars in your eyes about is good > literature and certain type of woman, maybe good food too, nature's beauty > and good music, good theater. I've never known you to be starry eyed about > the TMO. But then I know you in person and MJ doesn't so maybe that's why. > > > > > > From: feste37 > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 8:23 AM > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Bootleg UK TM teachers > > >  > I see all the flaws in the TMO. It is not an organization that I would work > for. From what I hear, though, the DLF is a better-run organization, and I > support their work. > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: > > > > Stop looking at the TMO with stars in your eyes and you will be able to see > > objectively. > > > > > > > > > > ____________________ > > From: feste37 > > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Tuesday, April 9, 2013 9:59 PM > > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Bootleg UK TM teachers > > > > > > à> > You might like to look up in a dictionary the meaning of the word > > "objective." > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: > > > > > > So why make the comment? > > > > > > The truth is it is not necessary to make any "judgements"about the > > > Movement. > > > All one has to do is look objectively at the TMO and one will easily see > > > it is a corrupt, duplicitous, dogmatic, absurdly boastful, inflexible, > > > narrow minded, unreliable, avaricious organization that, like most > > > governments, do not serve the people it claims to serve, neither the > > > people of the TMO, nor the people of the world. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: feste37 > > > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Sent: Tuesday, April 9, 2013 8:26 PM > > > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Bootleg UK TM teachers > > > > > > > > > Ãâà> > > Michael is determined always to believe the absolute worst regarding any > > > aspect of TM or the TMO. He will even make baseless insinuations, such as > > > the one below, cloaked by the ridiculously feeble "it could be." There is > > > no point in talking to him. He has no judgment. > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote: > > > > > > > > So you think that David Lynch is "doing it for the money?' > > > > > > > > L > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Now how shall I, with my TM-is-mainly-a-scam awareness, interpret > > > > > this info? > > > > > > > > > > It could be that the TMO and its David Lynch schill organization has > > > > > become self-less and has developed altruism and a big ol' heart. > > > > > > > > > > It could me that the DLF is actually charging people some money on > > > > > the sly somehow and making money off the deal. > > > > > > > > > > It could be that the numbers the TMODLF Conglomerate is lying about > > > > > the numbers being taught so they can justify the amount of money they > > > > > are taking in to match the numbers of people they are claiming to > > > > > teach. > > > > > > > > > > Ah, I knew I would stumble on the truth one day! > > > > > > > > > > And you can bet that no matter how many they are teaching down there, > > > > > they have some scheme in mind to make them lifelong customers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: sparaig > > > > > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, April 9, 2013 1:44 PM > > > > > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Bootleg UK TM teachers > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > > > Very true. However, most of the kids in South America and Mexico who > > > > > are learning the TM-Sidhis are learning for free as well, and the TM > > > > > organization would be very foolish to think that the average > > > > > poverty-stricken Indian in Mexico, or the average former sex-slave in > > > > > a Columbian orphanage, is going to contribute to the TM > > > > > organization's bottom line, *ever*... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Unless, of course, long-term TM and TM-Sidhis practice works as > > > > > advertised. > > > > > > > > > > L > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
[FairfieldLife] Re: Bootleg UK TM teachers
You are too kind. I only live for literature and music, and yes, "a certain type of woman." --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long wrote: > > feste the only thing I've known you to have stars in your eyes about is good > literature and certain type of woman, maybe good food too, nature's beauty > and good music, good theater. I've never known you to be starry eyed about > the TMO. But then I know you in person and MJ doesn't so maybe that's why. > > > > > > From: feste37 > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 8:23 AM > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Bootleg UK TM teachers > > >  > I see all the flaws in the TMO. It is not an organization that I would work > for. From what I hear, though, the DLF is a better-run organization, and I > support their work. > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: > > > > Stop looking at the TMO with stars in your eyes and you will be able to see > > objectively. > > > > > > > > > > ____________________ > > From: feste37 > > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Tuesday, April 9, 2013 9:59 PM > > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Bootleg UK TM teachers > > > > > > à> > You might like to look up in a dictionary the meaning of the word > > "objective." > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: > > > > > > So why make the comment? > > > > > > The truth is it is not necessary to make any "judgements"about the > > > Movement. > > > All one has to do is look objectively at the TMO and one will easily see > > > it is a corrupt, duplicitous, dogmatic, absurdly boastful, inflexible, > > > narrow minded, unreliable, avaricious organization that, like most > > > governments, do not serve the people it claims to serve, neither the > > > people of the TMO, nor the people of the world. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: feste37 > > > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Sent: Tuesday, April 9, 2013 8:26 PM > > > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Bootleg UK TM teachers > > > > > > > > > Ãâà> > > Michael is determined always to believe the absolute worst regarding any > > > aspect of TM or the TMO. He will even make baseless insinuations, such as > > > the one below, cloaked by the ridiculously feeble "it could be." There is > > > no point in talking to him. He has no judgment. > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote: > > > > > > > > So you think that David Lynch is "doing it for the money?' > > > > > > > > L > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Now how shall I, with my TM-is-mainly-a-scam awareness, interpret > > > > > this info? > > > > > > > > > > It could be that the TMO and its David Lynch schill organization has > > > > > become self-less and has developed altruism and a big ol' heart. > > > > > > > > > > It could me that the DLF is actually charging people some money on > > > > > the sly somehow and making money off the deal. > > > > > > > > > > It could be that the numbers the TMODLF Conglomerate is lying about > > > > > the numbers being taught so they can justify the amount of money they > > > > > are taking in to match the numbers of people they are claiming to > > > > > teach. > > > > > > > > > > Ah, I knew I would stumble on the truth one day! > > > > > > > > > > And you can bet that no matter how many they are teaching down there, > > > > > they have some scheme in mind to make them lifelong customers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: sparaig > > > > > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, April 9, 2013 1:44 PM > > > > > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Bootleg UK TM teachers > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > > > Very true. However, most of the kids in South America and Mexico who > > > > > are learning the TM-Sidhis are learning for free as well, and the TM > > > > > organization would be very foolish to think that the average > > > > > poverty-stricken Indian in Mexico, or the average former sex-slave in > > > > > a Columbian orphanage, is going to contribute to the TM > > > > > organization's bottom line, *ever*... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Unless, of course, long-term TM and TM-Sidhis practice works as > > > > > advertised. > > > > > > > > > > L > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Bootleg UK TM teachers
Yeah, L, I agree people are complicated, or what I call rich. And trying to communicate all that richness is just about impossible online. Do you have a background in psychology or biology? As for fake stability, some teachers advocate faking it til you make it. Maybe faking it activates the appropriate neurons just as well as does not faking it. I've read that people who imagined doing weight lifting had at least the same results as those who actually did weight lifting! And they could measure the muscle neurons firing for the imaginers! I like your point about the fittest stresses. I guess whether they're material or energetic, they too want to survive. Fascinating idea. I've heard it expressed thusly: that we're all in the same boat. If one person gets up and changes their position, it rocks the boat for everybody. Maybe the trick is to move gently. From: sparaig To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, April 9, 2013 6:52 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Bootleg UK TM teachers --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long wrote: > > Hey, L, in EFT Tapping Gary Craig calls this the Apex Effect. Roger > Callahan on whose work EFT is based, called it the Apex Problem. One > definition of the Apex Effect is "forgetting" to do EFT even when it has been > beneficial. An explanation that makes sense to me is that people become so > accustomed to or identified with a problem, that they actually feel safer > having it than not having it. I'm enjoying your posts a lot, especially > their readability and balanced tone and good info. > That's been a traditional explanation for why people resist change for the better since, probably Freud, if not before. One variant that seems to apply to me is that I have at least some level of [fake] stability by maintaining the status quo. Another that just occurred to me is that, just as some disease organisms have evolved to influence people's behavior in a way that makes them more likely to stay sick and/or pass the disease onto other people, the most successful stress-patterns are the ones that influence my behavior so that I don't set aside the time to meditate. Survival of the fittest stresses, as it were. Another factor is the common occurrence that when one is dysfunctional, one gathers dysfunctional people around them, and if one starts to improve drastically, those people often act out by trying to tear you down because you are disturbing *their* status quo. Anyway, the bottom line is: people are complicated. L
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Bootleg UK TM teachers
feste the only thing I've known you to have stars in your eyes about is good literature and certain type of woman, maybe good food too, nature's beauty and good music, good theater. I've never known you to be starry eyed about the TMO. But then I know you in person and MJ doesn't so maybe that's why. From: feste37 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 8:23 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Bootleg UK TM teachers I see all the flaws in the TMO. It is not an organization that I would work for. From what I hear, though, the DLF is a better-run organization, and I support their work. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: > > Stop looking at the TMO with stars in your eyes and you will be able to see > objectively. > > > > > > From: feste37 > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, April 9, 2013 9:59 PM > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Bootleg UK TM teachers > > >  > You might like to look up in a dictionary the meaning of the word "objective." > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: > > > > So why make the comment? > > > > The truth is it is not necessary to make any "judgements"about the > > Movement. > > All one has to do is look objectively at the TMO and one will easily see it > > is a corrupt, duplicitous, dogmatic, absurdly boastful, inflexible, narrow > > minded, unreliable, avaricious organization that, like most governments, do > > not serve the people it claims to serve, neither the people of the TMO, nor > > the people of the world. > > > > > > > > ____ > > From: feste37 > > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Tuesday, April 9, 2013 8:26 PM > > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Bootleg UK TM teachers > > > > > >  > > Michael is determined always to believe the absolute worst regarding any > > aspect of TM or the TMO. He will even make baseless insinuations, such as > > the one below, cloaked by the ridiculously feeble "it could be." There is > > no point in talking to him. He has no judgment. > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote: > > > > > > So you think that David Lynch is "doing it for the money?' > > > > > > L > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: > > > > > > > > Now how shall I, with my TM-is-mainly-a-scam awareness, interpret this > > > > info? > > > > > > > > It could be that the TMO and its David Lynch schill organization has > > > > become self-less and has developed altruism and a big ol' heart. > > > > > > > > It could me that the DLF is actually charging people some money on the > > > > sly somehow and making money off the deal. > > > > > > > > It could be that the numbers the TMODLF Conglomerate is lying about the > > > > numbers being taught so they can justify the amount of money they are > > > > taking in to match the numbers of people they are claiming to teach. > > > > > > > > Ah, I knew I would stumble on the truth one day! > > > > > > > > And you can bet that no matter how many they are teaching down there, > > > > they have some scheme in mind to make them lifelong customers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: sparaig > > > > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Sent: Tuesday, April 9, 2013 1:44 PM > > > > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Bootleg UK TM teachers > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > Very true. However, most of the kids in South America and Mexico who > > > > are learning the TM-Sidhis are learning for free as well, and the TM > > > > organization would be very foolish to think that the average > > > > poverty-stricken Indian in Mexico, or the average former sex-slave in a > > > > Columbian orphanage, is going to contribute to the TM organization's > > > > bottom line, *ever*... > > > > > > > > > > > > Unless, of course, long-term TM and TM-Sidhis practice works as > > > > advertised. > > > > > > > > L > > > > > > > > > >
[FairfieldLife] Re: Bootleg UK TM teachers
I see all the flaws in the TMO. It is not an organization that I would work for. From what I hear, though, the DLF is a better-run organization, and I support their work. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: > > Stop looking at the TMO with stars in your eyes and you will be able to see > objectively. > > > > > > From: feste37 > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, April 9, 2013 9:59 PM > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Bootleg UK TM teachers > > >  > You might like to look up in a dictionary the meaning of the word "objective." > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: > > > > So why make the comment? > > > > The truth is it is not necessary to make any "judgements"about the > > Movement. > > All one has to do is look objectively at the TMO and one will easily see it > > is a corrupt, duplicitous, dogmatic, absurdly boastful, inflexible, narrow > > minded, unreliable, avaricious organization that, like most governments, do > > not serve the people it claims to serve, neither the people of the TMO, nor > > the people of the world. > > > > > > > > ____________________ > > From: feste37 > > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Tuesday, April 9, 2013 8:26 PM > > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Bootleg UK TM teachers > > > > > > à> > Michael is determined always to believe the absolute worst regarding any > > aspect of TM or the TMO. He will even make baseless insinuations, such as > > the one below, cloaked by the ridiculously feeble "it could be." There is > > no point in talking to him. He has no judgment. > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote: > > > > > > So you think that David Lynch is "doing it for the money?' > > > > > > L > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: > > > > > > > > Now how shall I, with my TM-is-mainly-a-scam awareness, interpret this > > > > info? > > > > > > > > It could be that the TMO and its David Lynch schill organization has > > > > become self-less and has developed altruism and a big ol' heart. > > > > > > > > It could me that the DLF is actually charging people some money on the > > > > sly somehow and making money off the deal. > > > > > > > > It could be that the numbers the TMODLF Conglomerate is lying about the > > > > numbers being taught so they can justify the amount of money they are > > > > taking in to match the numbers of people they are claiming to teach. > > > > > > > > Ah, I knew I would stumble on the truth one day! > > > > > > > > And you can bet that no matter how many they are teaching down there, > > > > they have some scheme in mind to make them lifelong customers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: sparaig > > > > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Sent: Tuesday, April 9, 2013 1:44 PM > > > > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Bootleg UK TM teachers > > > > > > > > > > > > Ãâà> > > > Very true. However, most of the kids in South America and Mexico who > > > > are learning the TM-Sidhis are learning for free as well, and the TM > > > > organization would be very foolish to think that the average > > > > poverty-stricken Indian in Mexico, or the average former sex-slave in a > > > > Columbian orphanage, is going to contribute to the TM organization's > > > > bottom line, *ever*... > > > > > > > > > > > > Unless, of course, long-term TM and TM-Sidhis practice works as > > > > advertised. > > > > > > > > L > > > > > > > > > >
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Bootleg UK TM teachers
Thanks for this Curtis - as I said I had never heard of this before - its no wonder the TMO never talked about it - I expect those numbers are about par for the entire TMO's nearly 60 year performance. From: curtisdeltablues To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, April 9, 2013 10:25 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Bootleg UK TM teachers Hey Michael, I think it must have been 1984 or'85 when I was the DC Center Chairman. I don't remember who initiated the idea, the 300 memeber council of governors, or national, or it could have even been me. The idea was that we had initiated 10,000 people out of the Leroy Place TM center and had all the records. So we wanted to call all of them we could reach to invite them back for a checking. The motivation was idealistic and exciting and many volunteers came from the big local TM community to help in this massive undertaking. I do not remember the exact numbers, but to us at the time they were horrifying. It was less than 10% of the people we could contact who had continued the practice. And it wasn't as if they all said they hated TM, many of them said they thought it was a good thing but it just slipped out of their life somehow as a priority. And more telling, an even tinier number were willing to come back to the center for a free checking. This included both the people who had stopped, as well as the people who continued. This is the only time I know of where the movement tried this kind of follow-up on this scale. It was an eyeopener to me, then and now. Most people (as in overwhelmingly) who start TM stop TM. That is a fact. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: > > Can you tell us about the calling 10,000 initiates thing in DC? I have not > heard of this before. > > > > > > From: curtisdeltablues > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, April 9, 2013 10:08 AM > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Bootleg UK TM teachers > > > Â > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote: > > > > But it works. > > > > I think it works because it creates a group hoopla about a big project and > that gets people excited. It is hard to sell panaceas today, the market is > flooded with them. So the celebrity and the big projects creates a new buzz > that the individual offering can never do again. People are just not > attracted to "a simple solution to all problems". They are too jaded by > seeing too much and seeing one too many dhoti's lifted...literally. > > But in the end for some reason the vast majority of people stop their > practice of TM and it wouldn't surprise me if that is true of other > meditations as well. We don't have a a coherent framework to understand what > it is doing to the brain, if it is all good or not to support the practice > intellectually. And experientially, for some reason, even if they are good > experiences, the practice is only compelling enough to continue for a tiny > fraction of the people who started the practice. I am not inclined to just > say it is because TM does not work because people drop out of exercise and > that is kind of undeniably good for you. > > We don't know the reasons people start or stop today the numbers are too > tiny. But the supporting belief system and social support are both very > important now as it was then. The people who continued TM bought into the > intellectual perspective and hung out with other meditators at least till the > habit was established. > > Back when I started TM, people's motivations were clearer for starting but > just as mysterious for stopping. And the movement is not only NOT interested > in finding out, when they caught wind of my results from calling 10,000 > initiates in Washington DC , they never repeated it to my knowledge. I think > that is too bad because that data would be interesting for all programs that > promise self-development. We are oddly unpredictable creatures, even with > regard to our own self-interest. > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "salyavin808" > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: > > > > > > > > Because they love deceit - they learned it from their beloved Master, > > > > Marshy the Hood-winker > > > > > > I imagine it's more a legal thing. Because the Marshy Foundation > > > was a charity they weren't supposed to be involved with politics so > > > we used to have two phones on our desks,
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Bootleg UK TM teachers
Stop looking at the TMO with stars in your eyes and you will be able to see objectively. From: feste37 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, April 9, 2013 9:59 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Bootleg UK TM teachers You might like to look up in a dictionary the meaning of the word "objective." --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: > > So why make the comment? > > The truth is it is not necessary to make any "judgements"about the Movement. > All one has to do is look objectively at the TMO and one will easily see it > is a corrupt, duplicitous, dogmatic, absurdly boastful, inflexible, narrow > minded, unreliable, avaricious organization that, like most governments, do > not serve the people it claims to serve, neither the people of the TMO, nor > the people of the world. > > > > > From: feste37 > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, April 9, 2013 8:26 PM > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Bootleg UK TM teachers > > >  > Michael is determined always to believe the absolute worst regarding any > aspect of TM or the TMO. He will even make baseless insinuations, such as the > one below, cloaked by the ridiculously feeble "it could be." There is no > point in talking to him. He has no judgment. > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote: > > > > So you think that David Lynch is "doing it for the money?' > > > > L > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: > > > > > > Now how shall I, with my TM-is-mainly-a-scam awareness, interpret this > > > info? > > > > > > It could be that the TMO and its David Lynch schill organization has > > > become self-less and has developed altruism and a big ol' heart. > > > > > > It could me that the DLF is actually charging people some money on the > > > sly somehow and making money off the deal. > > > > > > It could be that the numbers the TMODLF Conglomerate is lying about the > > > numbers being taught so they can justify the amount of money they are > > > taking in to match the numbers of people they are claiming to teach. > > > > > > Ah, I knew I would stumble on the truth one day! > > > > > > And you can bet that no matter how many they are teaching down there, > > > they have some scheme in mind to make them lifelong customers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: sparaig > > > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Sent: Tuesday, April 9, 2013 1:44 PM > > > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Bootleg UK TM teachers > > > > > > > > >  > > > Very true. However, most of the kids in South America and Mexico who are > > > learning the TM-Sidhis are learning for free as well, and the TM > > > organization would be very foolish to think that the average > > > poverty-stricken Indian in Mexico, or the average former sex-slave in a > > > Columbian orphanage, is going to contribute to the TM organization's > > > bottom line, *ever*... > > > > > > > > > Unless, of course, long-term TM and TM-Sidhis practice works as > > > advertised. > > > > > > L > > > > > >
[FairfieldLife] Re: Bootleg UK TM teachers
You might like to look up in a dictionary the meaning of the word "objective." --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: > > So why make the comment? > > The truth is it is not necessary to make any "judgements"about the Movement. > All one has to do is look objectively at the TMO and one will easily see it > is a corrupt, duplicitous, dogmatic, absurdly boastful, inflexible, narrow > minded, unreliable, avaricious organization that, like most governments, do > not serve the people it claims to serve, neither the people of the TMO, nor > the people of the world. > > > > > From: feste37 > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, April 9, 2013 8:26 PM > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Bootleg UK TM teachers > > > Â > Michael is determined always to believe the absolute worst regarding any > aspect of TM or the TMO. He will even make baseless insinuations, such as the > one below, cloaked by the ridiculously feeble "it could be." There is no > point in talking to him. He has no judgment. > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote: > > > > So you think that David Lynch is "doing it for the money?' > > > > L > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: > > > > > > Now how shall I, with my TM-is-mainly-a-scam awareness, interpret this > > > info? > > > > > > It could be that the TMO and its David Lynch schill organization has > > > become self-less and has developed altruism and a big ol' heart. > > > > > > It could me that the DLF is actually charging people some money on the > > > sly somehow and making money off the deal. > > > > > > It could be that the numbers the TMODLF Conglomerate is lying about the > > > numbers being taught so they can justify the amount of money they are > > > taking in to match the numbers of people they are claiming to teach. > > > > > > Ah, I knew I would stumble on the truth one day! > > > > > > And you can bet that no matter how many they are teaching down there, > > > they have some scheme in mind to make them lifelong customers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: sparaig > > > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Sent: Tuesday, April 9, 2013 1:44 PM > > > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Bootleg UK TM teachers > > > > > > > > > ÃÂ > > > Very true. However, most of the kids in South America and Mexico who are > > > learning the TM-Sidhis are learning for free as well, and the TM > > > organization would be very foolish to think that the average > > > poverty-stricken Indian in Mexico, or the average former sex-slave in a > > > Columbian orphanage, is going to contribute to the TM organization's > > > bottom line, *ever*... > > > > > > > > > Unless, of course, long-term TM and TM-Sidhis practice works as > > > advertised. > > > > > > L > > > > > >
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Bootleg UK TM teachers
So why make the comment? The truth is it is not necessary to make any "judgements"about the Movement. All one has to do is look objectively at the TMO and one will easily see it is a corrupt, duplicitous, dogmatic, absurdly boastful, inflexible, narrow minded, unreliable, avaricious organization that, like most governments, do not serve the people it claims to serve, neither the people of the TMO, nor the people of the world. From: feste37 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, April 9, 2013 8:26 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Bootleg UK TM teachers Michael is determined always to believe the absolute worst regarding any aspect of TM or the TMO. He will even make baseless insinuations, such as the one below, cloaked by the ridiculously feeble "it could be." There is no point in talking to him. He has no judgment. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote: > > So you think that David Lynch is "doing it for the money?' > > L > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: > > > > Now how shall I, with my TM-is-mainly-a-scam awareness, interpret this info? > > > > It could be that the TMO and its David Lynch schill organization has become > > self-less and has developed altruism and a big ol' heart. > > > > It could me that the DLF is actually charging people some money on the sly > > somehow and making money off the deal. > > > > It could be that the numbers the TMODLF Conglomerate is lying about the > > numbers being taught so they can justify the amount of money they are > > taking in to match the numbers of people they are claiming to teach. > > > > Ah, I knew I would stumble on the truth one day! > > > > And you can bet that no matter how many they are teaching down there, they > > have some scheme in mind to make them lifelong customers. > > > > > > > > > > From: sparaig > > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Tuesday, April 9, 2013 1:44 PM > > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Bootleg UK TM teachers > > > > > > Â > > Very true. However, most of the kids in South America and Mexico who are > > learning the TM-Sidhis are learning for free as well, and the TM > > organization would be very foolish to think that the average > > poverty-stricken Indian in Mexico, or the average former sex-slave in a > > Columbian orphanage, is going to contribute to the TM organization's bottom > > line, *ever*... > > > > > > Unless, of course, long-term TM and TM-Sidhis practice works as advertised. > > > > L > > >
[FairfieldLife] Re: Bootleg UK TM teachers
Michael is determined always to believe the absolute worst regarding any aspect of TM or the TMO. He will even make baseless insinuations, such as the one below, cloaked by the ridiculously feeble "it could be." There is no point in talking to him. He has no judgment. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote: > > So you think that David Lynch is "doing it for the money?' > > L > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: > > > > Now how shall I, with my TM-is-mainly-a-scam awareness, interpret this info? > > > > It could be that the TMO and its David Lynch schill organization has become > > self-less and has developed altruism and a big ol' heart. > > > > It could me that the DLF is actually charging people some money on the sly > > somehow and making money off the deal. > > > > It could be that the numbers the TMODLF Conglomerate is lying about the > > numbers being taught so they can justify the amount of money they are > > taking in to match the numbers of people they are claiming to teach. > > > > Ah, I knew I would stumble on the truth one day! > > > > And you can bet that no matter how many they are teaching down there, they > > have some scheme in mind to make them lifelong customers. > > > > > > > > ____ > > From: sparaig > > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Tuesday, April 9, 2013 1:44 PM > > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Bootleg UK TM teachers > > > > > > Â > > Very true. However, most of the kids in South America and Mexico who are > > learning the TM-Sidhis are learning for free as well, and the TM > > organization would be very foolish to think that the average > > poverty-stricken Indian in Mexico, or the average former sex-slave in a > > Columbian orphanage, is going to contribute to the TM organization's bottom > > line, *ever*... > > > > > > Unless, of course, long-term TM and TM-Sidhis practice works as advertised. > > > > L > > >
[FairfieldLife] Re: Bootleg UK TM teachers
So you think that David Lynch is "doing it for the money?' L --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: > > Now how shall I, with my TM-is-mainly-a-scam awareness, interpret this info? > > It could be that the TMO and its David Lynch schill organization has become > self-less and has developed altruism and a big ol' heart. > > It could me that the DLF is actually charging people some money on the sly > somehow and making money off the deal. > > It could be that the numbers the TMODLF Conglomerate is lying about the > numbers being taught so they can justify the amount of money they are taking > in to match the numbers of people they are claiming to teach. > > Ah, I knew I would stumble on the truth one day! > > And you can bet that no matter how many they are teaching down there, they > have some scheme in mind to make them lifelong customers. > > > > > From: sparaig > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, April 9, 2013 1:44 PM > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Bootleg UK TM teachers > > > Â > Very true. However, most of the kids in South America and Mexico who are > learning the TM-Sidhis are learning for free as well, and the TM organization > would be very foolish to think that the average poverty-stricken Indian in > Mexico, or the average former sex-slave in a Columbian orphanage, is going to > contribute to the TM organization's bottom line, *ever*... > > > Unless, of course, long-term TM and TM-Sidhis practice works as advertised. > > L >
[FairfieldLife] Re: Bootleg UK TM teachers
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long wrote: > > Hey, L, in EFT Tapping Gary Craig calls this the Apex Effect. Roger > Callahan on whose work EFT is based, called it the Apex Problem. One > definition of the Apex Effect is "forgetting" to do EFT even when it has been > beneficial. An explanation that makes sense to me is that people become so > accustomed to or identified with a problem, that they actually feel safer > having it than not having it. I'm enjoying your posts a lot, especially > their readability and balanced tone and good info. > That's been a traditional explanation for why people resist change for the better since, probably Freud, if not before. One variant that seems to apply to me is that I have at least some level of [fake] stability by maintaining the status quo. Another that just occurred to me is that, just as some disease organisms have evolved to influence people's behavior in a way that makes them more likely to stay sick and/or pass the disease onto other people, the most successful stress-patterns are the ones that influence my behavior so that I don't set aside the time to meditate. Survival of the fittest stresses, as it were. Another factor is the common occurrence that when one is dysfunctional, one gathers dysfunctional people around them, and if one starts to improve drastically, those people often act out by trying to tear you down because you are disturbing *their* status quo. Anyway, the bottom line is: people are complicated. L
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Bootleg UK TM teachers
Now how shall I, with my TM-is-mainly-a-scam awareness, interpret this info? It could be that the TMO and its David Lynch schill organization has become self-less and has developed altruism and a big ol' heart. It could me that the DLF is actually charging people some money on the sly somehow and making money off the deal. It could be that the numbers the TMODLF Conglomerate is lying about the numbers being taught so they can justify the amount of money they are taking in to match the numbers of people they are claiming to teach. Ah, I knew I would stumble on the truth one day! And you can bet that no matter how many they are teaching down there, they have some scheme in mind to make them lifelong customers. From: sparaig To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, April 9, 2013 1:44 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Bootleg UK TM teachers Very true. However, most of the kids in South America and Mexico who are learning the TM-Sidhis are learning for free as well, and the TM organization would be very foolish to think that the average poverty-stricken Indian in Mexico, or the average former sex-slave in a Columbian orphanage, is going to contribute to the TM organization's bottom line, *ever*... Unless, of course, long-term TM and TM-Sidhis practice works as advertised. L
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Bootleg UK TM Teachers
I just remember the first time I heard Hitchhiker's on the radio I was blown away - and I remember hearing a description of various races and planets and the narrator saying "Just one tiny little thing wrong there - they weren't making MONEY for the Dolmansaxlil Shoe Corporation!" That's why it reminds me of the TMO Thanks also for the info of the UK TMO and renegades! From: salyavin808 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, April 9, 2013 5:40 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Bootleg UK TM Teachers --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: > > thanks Sal - this is good info - and ha ha! I just noticed your e-mail name > and realized where it comes from - I guess its been so long since I had a > meal at the restaurant at the end of the universe I am getting inattentive in > my old age - but come to think of it, the TMO really reminds me of the > Dolmansaxlil Shoe Corporation. The DSC! I had to google that, I don't think I've heard the radio show since it was on in '79. Great stuff, must make a note to get hold of it and refresh my memory. Back to the topic at hand, I never met Colin Beckley but I was on the conference call where the head of TM UK made a plea to centres to teach more as the world was plunging into war and our coherence was needed (I think I might have believed this at the time, though admitting that is tough). Colin, not unreasonably, pointed out that maybe if the price was lower (it was creeping up a lot at the time) they would teach more people but that apparently wasn't up for discussion to put it mildly. He should have known better than to question the reesh! The whole tone rapidly degenerated into shouting and general frustration at the stupidity of charging so much for something and then going out campaigning to teach it. That was the last we heard of Mr Beckley until he started teaching on the cheap. Marshy was informed but apparently just said that TM teachers will always want to teach and didn't seem that bothered (they say). The people I know who went on CBs courses did so during the Scorpionland debacle when the TMO was closed in the UK, and have now started going to official courses only again - especially as the TMO has some SV buildings to hold them in, which is a big draw. So what will become of the indies is anyone's guess. I'd like to know how many they teach, at one point it was more than the offical TMO were teaching. But now the DLF is pulling them in, maybe not? I shall make some enquiries as to how it's all going. __ > From: salyavin808 > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, April 9, 2013 4:27 PM > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Bootleg UK TM Teachers > > > Â > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: > > > > Hey Rick, > > > > I dunno if these folks would fit the bill - they supposedly broke from the > > regular TMO when the price went to its highest level - one supposes they > > are not in good standing with the TMO even today, but they use the old > > percentage of your salary or wages formula > > > > http://www.meditationtrust.com/ > > > > http://www.tm-meditation.co.uk/index.htm > > > > This is the same group, run by one Colin Beckley. I think > the TM Trust must be his new site as it has TM removed from > the name as well as a disclaimer about not being part of the > MF. I understand they've been rather heavy with him about that. > > We had a few of his students turn up at our centre once, he'd > told them that they would be welcome at any TM centre! Bit > cheeky I thought as they were really nice and genuine seekers > and didn't deserve to get caught up in TMO bullshit politics. > We had to turn them away and explained the only way the TMO will accept you > at centres and on courses etc, is if you pay to learn > again by an accredited, recertified gov. > > It's OK getting it on the cheap but I always thought that > missing out on courses at my lovely old Tudor academy would be > a real shame but CB teaches the "siddhis" now and has courses > open to any TMer, official or not. So maybe the only thing you > miss out on is speeches by Bevan. I've heard the atmosphere on > these courses is great because no one has all the cultish, > Stalinist baggage that the TMO is saddled with. > > Maybe the indies will have more luck levitating than the TMO has. > LOL! That would just about finish me off... >
[FairfieldLife] Re: Bootleg UK TM teachers
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: > > Can you tell us about the calling 10,000 initiates thing in DC? I have not > heard of this before. > > > > > > From: curtisdeltablues > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, April 9, 2013 10:08 AM > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Bootleg UK TM teachers > > > Â > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote: > > > > But it works. > > > > I think it works because it creates a group hoopla about a big project and > that gets people excited. It is hard to sell panaceas today, the market is > flooded with them. So the celebrity and the big projects creates a new buzz > that the individual offering can never do again. People are just not > attracted to "a simple solution to all problems". They are too jaded by > seeing too much and seeing one too many dhoti's lifted...literally. > > But in the end for some reason the vast majority of people stop their > practice of TM and it wouldn't surprise me if that is true of other > meditations as well. We don't have a a coherent framework to understand what > it is doing to the brain, if it is all good or not to support the practice > intellectually. And experientially, for some reason, even if they are good > experiences, the practice is only compelling enough to continue for a tiny > fraction of the people who started the practice. I am not inclined to just > say it is because TM does not work because people drop out of exercise and > that is kind of undeniably good for you. > > We don't know the reasons people start or stop today the numbers are too > tiny. But the supporting belief system and social support are both very > important now as it was then. The people who continued TM bought into the > intellectual perspective and hung out with other meditators at least till the > habit was established. > > Back when I started TM, people's motivations were clearer for starting but > just as mysterious for stopping. And the movement is not only NOT interested > in finding out, when they caught wind of my results from calling 10,000 > initiates in Washington DC , they never repeated it to my knowledge. I think > that is too bad because that data would be interesting for all programs that > promise self-development. We are oddly unpredictable creatures, even with > regard to our own self-interest. > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "salyavin808" > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: > > > > > > > > Because they love deceit - they learned it from their beloved Master, > > > > Marshy the Hood-winker > > > > > > I imagine it's more a legal thing. Because the Marshy Foundation > > > was a charity they weren't supposed to be involved with politics so > > > we used to have two phones on our desks, one for NLP, the other with > > > a MF sign. You had to get it right as well, if journo's had got a whiff > > > that a foreign religious group were trying to influence > > > British politics it might have made a good story so they had to > > > dredge up George Harrison for a speech instead. > > > > > > Can't imagine what the problem is with the DLF. Simple branding perhaps? > > > Whatever, it's stupid for one part of the same organisation to offer > > > discounts for the other half. Seems like a long way round to just > > > lowering the fee again. > > > > > > > > > > But it works. > > > > > > L > > >
[FairfieldLife] Re: Bootleg UK TM Teachers
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: > > thanks Sal - this is good info - and ha ha! I just noticed your e-mail name > and realized where it comes from - I guess its been so long since I had a > meal at the restaurant at the end of the universe I am getting inattentive in > my old age - but come to think of it, the TMO really reminds me of the > Dolmansaxlil Shoe Corporation. The DSC! I had to google that, I don't think I've heard the radio show since it was on in '79. Great stuff, must make a note to get hold of it and refresh my memory. Back to the topic at hand, I never met Colin Beckley but I was on the conference call where the head of TM UK made a plea to centres to teach more as the world was plunging into war and our coherence was needed (I think I might have believed this at the time, though admitting that is tough). Colin, not unreasonably, pointed out that maybe if the price was lower (it was creeping up a lot at the time) they would teach more people but that apparently wasn't up for discussion to put it mildly. He should have known better than to question the reesh! The whole tone rapidly degenerated into shouting and general frustration at the stupidity of charging so much for something and then going out campaigning to teach it. That was the last we heard of Mr Beckley until he started teaching on the cheap. Marshy was informed but apparently just said that TM teachers will always want to teach and didn't seem that bothered (they say). The people I know who went on CBs courses did so during the Scorpionland debacle when the TMO was closed in the UK, and have now started going to official courses only again - especially as the TMO has some SV buildings to hold them in, which is a big draw. So what will become of the indies is anyone's guess. I'd like to know how many they teach, at one point it was more than the offical TMO were teaching. But now the DLF is pulling them in, maybe not? I shall make some enquiries as to how it's all going. __ > From: salyavin808 > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, April 9, 2013 4:27 PM > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Bootleg UK TM Teachers > > > Â > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: > > > > Hey Rick, > > > > I dunno if these folks would fit the bill - they supposedly broke from the > > regular TMO when the price went to its highest level - one supposes they > > are not in good standing with the TMO even today, but they use the old > > percentage of your salary or wages formula > > > > http://www.meditationtrust.com/ > > > > http://www.tm-meditation.co.uk/index.htm > > > > This is the same group, run by one Colin Beckley. I think > the TM Trust must be his new site as it has TM removed from > the name as well as a disclaimer about not being part of the > MF. I understand they've been rather heavy with him about that. > > We had a few of his students turn up at our centre once, he'd > told them that they would be welcome at any TM centre! Bit > cheeky I thought as they were really nice and genuine seekers > and didn't deserve to get caught up in TMO bullshit politics. > We had to turn them away and explained the only way the TMO will accept you > at centres and on courses etc, is if you pay to learn > again by an accredited, recertified gov. > > It's OK getting it on the cheap but I always thought that > missing out on courses at my lovely old Tudor academy would be > a real shame but CB teaches the "siddhis" now and has courses > open to any TMer, official or not. So maybe the only thing you > miss out on is speeches by Bevan. I've heard the atmosphere on > these courses is great because no one has all the cultish, > Stalinist baggage that the TMO is saddled with. > > Maybe the indies will have more luck levitating than the TMO has. > LOL! That would just about finish me off... >
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Bootleg UK TM Teachers
thanks Sal - this is good info - and ha ha! I just noticed your e-mail name and realized where it comes from - I guess its been so long since I had a meal at the restaurant at the end of the universe I am getting inattentive in my old age - but come to think of it, the TMO really reminds me of the Dolmansaxlil Shoe Corporation. From: salyavin808 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, April 9, 2013 4:27 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Bootleg UK TM Teachers --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: > > Hey Rick, > > I dunno if these folks would fit the bill - they supposedly broke from the > regular TMO when the price went to its highest level - one supposes they are > not in good standing with the TMO even today, but they use the old percentage > of your salary or wages formula > > http://www.meditationtrust.com/ > > http://www.tm-meditation.co.uk/index.htm > This is the same group, run by one Colin Beckley. I think the TM Trust must be his new site as it has TM removed from the name as well as a disclaimer about not being part of the MF. I understand they've been rather heavy with him about that. We had a few of his students turn up at our centre once, he'd told them that they would be welcome at any TM centre! Bit cheeky I thought as they were really nice and genuine seekers and didn't deserve to get caught up in TMO bullshit politics. We had to turn them away and explained the only way the TMO will accept you at centres and on courses etc, is if you pay to learn again by an accredited, recertified gov. It's OK getting it on the cheap but I always thought that missing out on courses at my lovely old Tudor academy would be a real shame but CB teaches the "siddhis" now and has courses open to any TMer, official or not. So maybe the only thing you miss out on is speeches by Bevan. I've heard the atmosphere on these courses is great because no one has all the cultish, Stalinist baggage that the TMO is saddled with. Maybe the indies will have more luck levitating than the TMO has. LOL! That would just about finish me off...
[FairfieldLife] Re: Bootleg UK TM Teachers
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: > > Hey Rick, > > I dunno if these folks would fit the bill - they supposedly broke from the > regular TMO when the price went to its highest level - one supposes they are > not in good standing with the TMO even today, but they use the old percentage > of your salary or wages formula > > http://www.meditationtrust.com/ > > http://www.tm-meditation.co.uk/index.htm > This is the same group, run by one Colin Beckley. I think the TM Trust must be his new site as it has TM removed from the name as well as a disclaimer about not being part of the MF. I understand they've been rather heavy with him about that. We had a few of his students turn up at our centre once, he'd told them that they would be welcome at any TM centre! Bit cheeky I thought as they were really nice and genuine seekers and didn't deserve to get caught up in TMO bullshit politics. We had to turn them away and explained the only way the TMO will accept you at centres and on courses etc, is if you pay to learn again by an accredited, recertified gov. It's OK getting it on the cheap but I always thought that missing out on courses at my lovely old Tudor academy would be a real shame but CB teaches the "siddhis" now and has courses open to any TMer, official or not. So maybe the only thing you miss out on is speeches by Bevan. I've heard the atmosphere on these courses is great because no one has all the cultish, Stalinist baggage that the TMO is saddled with. Maybe the indies will have more luck levitating than the TMO has. LOL! That would just about finish me off...
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Bootleg UK TM teachers
They could do "TM Lite" which would be a couple meetings, a DVD and use one general purpose mantra. And it would probably be just as effective if not better. I recall Charlie Lutes at a teacher meeting in the 1970s decrying the price increase during a recession. On 04/09/2013 01:55 AM, turquoiseb wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote: >> It's the price MMY set before he died. THat's pretty much >> the long and short of it. > As I understand it, Lawson, this is simply not true. > The price in the US to learn TM when Maharishi died > was $2500. Now it's $1500. That change happened after > he kicked the bucket. > > If they changed it once, they could change it again, > to something more reasonable, say $250. That would > *still* be too high in the "meditation marketplace" > as it stands today, but it wouldn't make the TMO > look so much like the money-grubbing organization > almost everyone perceives it as. > > The bottom line, which you continually ignore, is > that the organization *setting* these prices and thus > declaring to the world who is "worthy" to learn TM > (the wealthy or well-to-do) and who is not (everyone > else) is sitting on assets in excess of a billion > dollars. This simply is inconsistent with its stated > goal of getting as many people to learn TM as possible. > One cannot *help* but look at this and realize that > the TMO is pretty much the role model for hypocrisy. > > >> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "salyavin808" wrote: >>> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Archer" wrote: > Anyone know of a TM teacher in the Birmingham, UK area who is teaching > independently, and thus inexpensively? The DLF has a UK branch now, and there are scholarships/grants available through the DLF to bring the pricing down to more sane levels. >>> If the TMO also thinks the price is too high why don't they >>> lower it then they wouldn't have to put up this DLF charade >>> to kid people it isn't the same organisation? >>> L > >
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Bootleg UK TM teachers
Hey, L, in EFT Tapping Gary Craig calls this the Apex Effect. Roger Callahan on whose work EFT is based, called it the Apex Problem. One definition of the Apex Effect is "forgetting" to do EFT even when it has been beneficial. An explanation that makes sense to me is that people become so accustomed to or identified with a problem, that they actually feel safer having it than not having it. I'm enjoying your posts a lot, especially their readability and balanced tone and good info. From: sparaig To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, April 9, 2013 12:55 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Bootleg UK TM teachers snip That's true of everything that is good for you. Humans are really lousy at developing and keeping good habits. As I pointed out before, the groups that the DLF is dealing with are all practicing in formal settings, and at least as long as they are in school/prison/orphanage/addiction treatment/etc there's an entire support system available to help keep them regular and hopefully over the year(s) that they are involved with the system, they will develop TM as a long-term habit. And, from personal experience, even the most obsessive of us can "fall off the wagon" in the right circumstances. Even though TM remains easy to do, overwhelming stress can make it difficult to set aside time to do it. I sometimes have to trick myself into a setting where I have nothing better to do. My Buddhist friend thought for a long time that I was going to convert because I quite cheerfully went with him to his weekly meetings, but in reality, I was using their chanting time as a way of forcing myself into circumstances where I simply couldn't avoid meditating. All the while they were doing daimoku, I was sitting their with my eyes closed doing TM and, if I could manage to maintain inconspiciousness in a corner in the back of the room,, my entire TM-Sidhis practice as well. Their chanting covered any sounds I made and they never look around during practice so my secret was safe. L
[FairfieldLife] Re: Bootleg UK TM teachers
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" wrote: > > Hey Michael, > > I think it must have been 1984 or'85 when I was the DC Center Chairman. I > don't remember who initiated the idea, the 300 memeber council of governors, > or national, or it could have even been me. The idea was that we had > initiated 10,000 people out of the Leroy Place TM center and had all the > records. So we wanted to call all of them we could reach to invite them back > for a checking. The motivation was idealistic and exciting and many > volunteers came from the big local TM community to help in this massive > undertaking. > > I do not remember the exact numbers, but to us at the time they were > horrifying. It was less than 10% of the people we could contact who had > continued the practice. And it wasn't as if they all said they hated TM, > many of them said they thought it was a good thing but it just slipped out of > their life somehow as a priority. And more telling, an even tinier number > were willing to come back to the center for a free checking. This included > both the people who had stopped, as well as the people who continued. > > This is the only time I know of where the movement tried this kind of > follow-up on this scale. It was an eyeopener to me, then and now. Most > people (as in overwhelmingly) who start TM stop TM. That is a fact. > > That's true of everything that is good for you. Humans are really lousy at developing and keeping good habits. As I pointed out before, the groups that the DLF is dealing with are all practicing in formal settings, and at least as long as they are in school/prison/orphanage/addiction treatment/etc there's an entire support system available to help keep them regular and hopefully over the year(s) that they are involved with the system, they will develop TM as a long-term habit. And, from personal experience, even the most obsessive of us can "fall off the wagon" in the right circumstances. Even though TM remains easy to do, overwhelming stress can make it difficult to set aside time to do it. I sometimes have to trick myself into a setting where I have nothing better to do. My Buddhist friend thought for a long time that I was going to convert because I quite cheerfully went with him to his weekly meetings, but in reality, I was using their chanting time as a way of forcing myself into circumstances where I simply couldn't avoid meditating. All the while they were doing daimoku, I was sitting their with my eyes closed doing TM and, if I could manage to maintain inconspiciousness in a corner in the back of the room,, my entire TM-Sidhis practice as well. Their chanting covered any sounds I made and they never look around during practice so my secret was safe. L
[FairfieldLife] Re: Bootleg UK TM teachers
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: > > As I have mentioned here before, they are looking to the future by creating > willing dupes to initiate them into the TM-Sidhi program, so they can then > sell them all the other things the TMO sells - they are trying to create > lifetime customers, as Raja Rogers said in the notes that were uploaded to > the wikileaks site a few years back. > Very true. However, most of the kids in South America and Mexico who are learning the TM-Sidhis are learning for free as well, and the TM organization would be very foolish to think that the average poverty-stricken Indian in Mexico, or the average former sex-slave in a Columbian orphanage, is going to contribute to the TM organization's bottom line, *ever*... Unless, of course, long-term TM and TM-Sidhis practice works as advertised. L
[FairfieldLife] Re: Bootleg UK TM teachers
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote: > > > > But it works. > > > > I think it works because it creates a group hoopla about a big project and > that gets people excited. It is hard to sell panaceas today, the market is > flooded with them. So the celebrity and the big projects creates a new buzz > that the individual offering can never do again. People are just not > attracted to "a simple solution to all problems". They are too jaded by > seeing too much and seeing one too many dhoti's lifted...literally. > This is no doubt part of what is going on. > But in the end for some reason the vast majority of people stop their > practice of TM and it wouldn't surprise me if that is true of other > meditations as well. We don't have a a coherent framework to understand what > it is doing to the brain, if it is all good or not to support the practice > intellectually. And experientially, for some reason, even if they are good > experiences, the practice is only compelling enough to continue for a tiny > fraction of the people who started the practice. I am not inclined to just > say it is because TM does not work because people drop out of exercise and > that is kind of undeniably good for you. > As a non-religion (for most people), TM and mindfulness and so on simply aren't attractive enough by themselves to keep most people going. But that is true of exercising regularly, eating a proper diet, etc. In theory, quitting TM might take years off your life, but it is far easier to forget to meditate than it is to forget to smoke, for example. For some reason, good habits are hard to develop while bad habits are hard to get rid of. TM is no different than anything else that is good for you, in that respect. > We don't know the reasons people start or stop today the numbers are too > tiny. But the supporting belief system and social support are both very > important now as it was then. The people who continued TM bought into the > intellectual perspective and hung out with other meditators at least till the > habit was established. > Sure. And in formal settings like schools, prisons veterans support groups, orphanages, etc., it is very easy to be regular > Back when I started TM, people's motivations were clearer for starting but > just as mysterious for stopping. And the movement is not only NOT interested > in finding out, when they caught wind of my results from calling 10,000 > initiates in Washington DC , they never repeated it to my knowledge. I think > that is too bad because that data would be interesting for all programs that > promise self-development. We are oddly unpredictable creatures, even with > regard to our own self-interest. > Sure. In a recent study on HIV health management and TM, the control group (some kind of education/diet thing IIRC) had an amazing 81% compliance rate. The TM group had a 100% compliance rate. But these are people who are REALLY motivated to try to maintain their health. Most people don't think in terms of "I gotta stay healthy or I might die" so the incentive to maintain healthy habits isn't there. L
[FairfieldLife] Re: Bootleg UK TM teachers
Hey Michael, I think it must have been 1984 or'85 when I was the DC Center Chairman. I don't remember who initiated the idea, the 300 memeber council of governors, or national, or it could have even been me. The idea was that we had initiated 10,000 people out of the Leroy Place TM center and had all the records. So we wanted to call all of them we could reach to invite them back for a checking. The motivation was idealistic and exciting and many volunteers came from the big local TM community to help in this massive undertaking. I do not remember the exact numbers, but to us at the time they were horrifying. It was less than 10% of the people we could contact who had continued the practice. And it wasn't as if they all said they hated TM, many of them said they thought it was a good thing but it just slipped out of their life somehow as a priority. And more telling, an even tinier number were willing to come back to the center for a free checking. This included both the people who had stopped, as well as the people who continued. This is the only time I know of where the movement tried this kind of follow-up on this scale. It was an eyeopener to me, then and now. Most people (as in overwhelmingly) who start TM stop TM. That is a fact. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: > > Can you tell us about the calling 10,000 initiates thing in DC? I have not > heard of this before. > > > > > > From: curtisdeltablues > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, April 9, 2013 10:08 AM > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Bootleg UK TM teachers > > > Â > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote: > > > > But it works. > > > > I think it works because it creates a group hoopla about a big project and > that gets people excited. It is hard to sell panaceas today, the market is > flooded with them. So the celebrity and the big projects creates a new buzz > that the individual offering can never do again. People are just not > attracted to "a simple solution to all problems". They are too jaded by > seeing too much and seeing one too many dhoti's lifted...literally. > > But in the end for some reason the vast majority of people stop their > practice of TM and it wouldn't surprise me if that is true of other > meditations as well. We don't have a a coherent framework to understand what > it is doing to the brain, if it is all good or not to support the practice > intellectually. And experientially, for some reason, even if they are good > experiences, the practice is only compelling enough to continue for a tiny > fraction of the people who started the practice. I am not inclined to just > say it is because TM does not work because people drop out of exercise and > that is kind of undeniably good for you. > > We don't know the reasons people start or stop today the numbers are too > tiny. But the supporting belief system and social support are both very > important now as it was then. The people who continued TM bought into the > intellectual perspective and hung out with other meditators at least till the > habit was established. > > Back when I started TM, people's motivations were clearer for starting but > just as mysterious for stopping. And the movement is not only NOT interested > in finding out, when they caught wind of my results from calling 10,000 > initiates in Washington DC , they never repeated it to my knowledge. I think > that is too bad because that data would be interesting for all programs that > promise self-development. We are oddly unpredictable creatures, even with > regard to our own self-interest. > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "salyavin808" > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: > > > > > > > > Because they love deceit - they learned it from their beloved Master, > > > > Marshy the Hood-winker > > > > > > I imagine it's more a legal thing. Because the Marshy Foundation > > > was a charity they weren't supposed to be involved with politics so > > > we used to have two phones on our desks, one for NLP, the other with > > > a MF sign. You had to get it right as well, if journo's had got a whiff > > > that a foreign religious group were trying to influence > > > British politics it might have made a good story so they had to > > > dredge up George Harrison for a speech instead. > > > > > > Can't imagine what the problem is with the DLF. Simple branding perhaps? > > > Whatever, it's stupid for one part of the same organisation to offer > > > discounts for the other half. Seems like a long way round to just > > > lowering the fee again. > > > > > > > > > > But it works. > > > > > > L > > >
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Bootleg UK TM teachers
As I have mentioned here before, they are looking to the future by creating willing dupes to initiate them into the TM-Sidhi program, so they can then sell them all the other things the TMO sells - they are trying to create lifetime customers, as Raja Rogers said in the notes that were uploaded to the wikileaks site a few years back. From: salyavin808 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, April 9, 2013 7:28 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Bootleg UK TM teachers --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: > > Because they love deceit - they learned it from their beloved Master, Marshy > the Hood-winker I imagine it's more a legal thing. Because the Marshy Foundation was a charity they weren't supposed to be involved with politics so we used to have two phones on our desks, one for NLP, the other with a MF sign. You had to get it right as well, if journo's had got a whiff that a foreign religious group were trying to influence British politics it might have made a good story so they had to dredge up George Harrison for a speech instead. Can't imagine what the problem is with the DLF. Simple branding perhaps? Whatever, it's stupid for one part of the same organisation to offer discounts for the other half. Seems like a long way round to just lowering the fee again. > > From: salyavin808 > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, April 9, 2013 4:31 AM > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Bootleg UK TM teachers > > > Â > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote: > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Archer" wrote: > > > > > > Anyone know of a TM teacher in the Birmingham, UK area who is teaching > > > independently, and thus inexpensively? > > > > > > > The DLF has a UK branch now, and there are scholarships/grants available > > through the DLF to bring the pricing down to more sane levels. > > If the TMO also thinks the price is too high why don't they > lower it then they wouldn't have to put up this DLF charade > to kid people it isn't the same organisation? > > > L > > >
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Bootleg UK TM teachers
Can you tell us about the calling 10,000 initiates thing in DC? I have not heard of this before. From: curtisdeltablues To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, April 9, 2013 10:08 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Bootleg UK TM teachers --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote: > > But it works. > I think it works because it creates a group hoopla about a big project and that gets people excited. It is hard to sell panaceas today, the market is flooded with them. So the celebrity and the big projects creates a new buzz that the individual offering can never do again. People are just not attracted to "a simple solution to all problems". They are too jaded by seeing too much and seeing one too many dhoti's lifted...literally. But in the end for some reason the vast majority of people stop their practice of TM and it wouldn't surprise me if that is true of other meditations as well. We don't have a a coherent framework to understand what it is doing to the brain, if it is all good or not to support the practice intellectually. And experientially, for some reason, even if they are good experiences, the practice is only compelling enough to continue for a tiny fraction of the people who started the practice. I am not inclined to just say it is because TM does not work because people drop out of exercise and that is kind of undeniably good for you. We don't know the reasons people start or stop today the numbers are too tiny. But the supporting belief system and social support are both very important now as it was then. The people who continued TM bought into the intellectual perspective and hung out with other meditators at least till the habit was established. Back when I started TM, people's motivations were clearer for starting but just as mysterious for stopping. And the movement is not only NOT interested in finding out, when they caught wind of my results from calling 10,000 initiates in Washington DC , they never repeated it to my knowledge. I think that is too bad because that data would be interesting for all programs that promise self-development. We are oddly unpredictable creatures, even with regard to our own self-interest. > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "salyavin808" wrote: > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: > > > > > > Because they love deceit - they learned it from their beloved Master, > > > Marshy the Hood-winker > > > > I imagine it's more a legal thing. Because the Marshy Foundation > > was a charity they weren't supposed to be involved with politics so > > we used to have two phones on our desks, one for NLP, the other with > > a MF sign. You had to get it right as well, if journo's had got a whiff > > that a foreign religious group were trying to influence > > British politics it might have made a good story so they had to > > dredge up George Harrison for a speech instead. > > > > Can't imagine what the problem is with the DLF. Simple branding perhaps? > > Whatever, it's stupid for one part of the same organisation to offer > > discounts for the other half. Seems like a long way round to just lowering > > the fee again. > > > > > > But it works. > > > L >
[FairfieldLife] Re: Bootleg UK TM teachers
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote: > > But it works. > I think it works because it creates a group hoopla about a big project and that gets people excited. It is hard to sell panaceas today, the market is flooded with them. So the celebrity and the big projects creates a new buzz that the individual offering can never do again. People are just not attracted to "a simple solution to all problems". They are too jaded by seeing too much and seeing one too many dhoti's lifted...literally. But in the end for some reason the vast majority of people stop their practice of TM and it wouldn't surprise me if that is true of other meditations as well. We don't have a a coherent framework to understand what it is doing to the brain, if it is all good or not to support the practice intellectually. And experientially, for some reason, even if they are good experiences, the practice is only compelling enough to continue for a tiny fraction of the people who started the practice. I am not inclined to just say it is because TM does not work because people drop out of exercise and that is kind of undeniably good for you. We don't know the reasons people start or stop today the numbers are too tiny. But the supporting belief system and social support are both very important now as it was then. The people who continued TM bought into the intellectual perspective and hung out with other meditators at least till the habit was established. Back when I started TM, people's motivations were clearer for starting but just as mysterious for stopping. And the movement is not only NOT interested in finding out, when they caught wind of my results from calling 10,000 initiates in Washington DC , they never repeated it to my knowledge. I think that is too bad because that data would be interesting for all programs that promise self-development. We are oddly unpredictable creatures, even with regard to our own self-interest. > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "salyavin808" wrote: > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: > > > > > > Because they love deceit - they learned it from their beloved Master, > > > Marshy the Hood-winker > > > > I imagine it's more a legal thing. Because the Marshy Foundation > > was a charity they weren't supposed to be involved with politics so > > we used to have two phones on our desks, one for NLP, the other with > > a MF sign. You had to get it right as well, if journo's had got a whiff > > that a foreign religious group were trying to influence > > British politics it might have made a good story so they had to > > dredge up George Harrison for a speech instead. > > > > Can't imagine what the problem is with the DLF. Simple branding perhaps? > > Whatever, it's stupid for one part of the same organisation to offer > > discounts for the other half. Seems like a long way round to just lowering > > the fee again. > > > > > > But it works. > > > L >
[FairfieldLife] Re: Bootleg UK TM teachers
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "salyavin808" wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: > > > > Because they love deceit - they learned it from their beloved Master, > > Marshy the Hood-winker > > I imagine it's more a legal thing. Because the Marshy Foundation > was a charity they weren't supposed to be involved with politics so > we used to have two phones on our desks, one for NLP, the other with > a MF sign. You had to get it right as well, if journo's had got a whiff that > a foreign religious group were trying to influence > British politics it might have made a good story so they had to > dredge up George Harrison for a speech instead. > > Can't imagine what the problem is with the DLF. Simple branding perhaps? > Whatever, it's stupid for one part of the same organisation to offer > discounts for the other half. Seems like a long way round to just lowering > the fee again. > > But it works. L
[FairfieldLife] Re: Bootleg UK TM teachers
The DLF teaches TM to specific groups in specific settings. Kids practice it daily in school, for example. The rationale for charging money was to encourage people to keep practicing. Since the kids have a formal setting where meditation is encouraged every day, twice a day, the rationale for charging doesn't apply. Likewise with all the other formal venues that the DLF teaches through. They don't just pull in veterans off the street: they work with existing veterans organizations and TM is an official adjunct to the existing programs the veterans are already involved in. Etc. Oh, and none of my friends who owned businesses practice TM. They were speaking from their experience as retail business owners. L --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote: > > > > You may be correct about when the price change happened. I > > thought it was before MMY died, but perhaps it was after. > > > > Your point about the assets of the TM organization is > > difficult to confirm or refute. The most expensive asset > > in the USA, I am reasonably confident, is the MUM campus, > > and I suspect you aren't seriously suggesting that they > > sell MUM so people can learn for cheaper for a brief period. > > > > The most expensive assets in India are likely real estate > > holdings in New Delhi and other large cities, and those are > > controlled by the Indian branch of the TM organization, with > > all the bickering and in-fighting over how those properties > > should be managed that we all have read reports of in > > Fairfield Life. > > > > I have spoken with people who own retail businesses and > > they tend to agree: if you price something too low, no-one > > takes it seriously. > > I've been waiting for you to trot out this old piece > of dogma. You learned it from TM teachers, who learned > to parrot it from Maharishi: "If you give something > away for free, no one in the West values it, so they > stop meditating." Stuff like that. > > HOW then do you explain the DLF program, in which (as > I understand it, based mainly on you talking about it > here) EVERYONE who learns TM through its auspices is > getting it for free? > > They (the end users) didn't contribute a penny. So why > aren't they not valuing the meditation and stopping > the practice of it in droves. > > Oh. Maybe they are. > > But maybe that has nothing to do with having received > it for free. >
[FairfieldLife] Re: Bootleg UK TM teachers
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" LEnglish5@ wrote: > > > > It's the price MMY set before he died. THat's pretty much > > the long and short of it. > > As I understand it, Lawson, this is simply not true. > The price in the US to learn TM when Maharishi died > was $2500. Now it's $1500. That change happened after > he kicked the bucket. > > If they changed it once, they could change it again, > to something more reasonable, say $250. That would > *still* be too high in the "meditation marketplace" > as it stands today, but it wouldn't make the TMO > look so much like the money-grubbing organization > almost everyone perceives it as. The guess the problem with that is all the people who paid the $2,500 or even the $1,500. I mean I would say to do it anyway, but it will create a bit of of a problem. On the other hand, how many people are we even talking about. > The bottom line, which you continually ignore, is > that the organization *setting* these prices and thus > declaring to the world who is "worthy" to learn TM > (the wealthy or well-to-do) and who is not (everyone > else) is sitting on assets in excess of a billion > dollars. This simply is inconsistent with its stated > goal of getting as many people to learn TM as possible. > One cannot *help* but look at this and realize that > the TMO is pretty much the role model for hypocrisy. > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "salyavin808" wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote: > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Archer" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Anyone know of a TM teacher in the Birmingham, UK area who is teaching > > > > > independently, and thus inexpensively? > > > > > > > > The DLF has a UK branch now, and there are scholarships/grants available through the DLF to bring the pricing down to more sane levels. > > > > > > If the TMO also thinks the price is too high why don't they > > > lower it then they wouldn't have to put up this DLF charade > > > to kid people it isn't the same organisation? > > > > > > > L > > > > > > > > > >
[FairfieldLife] Re: Bootleg UK TM teachers
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote: > > You may be correct about when the price change happened. I > thought it was before MMY died, but perhaps it was after. > > Your point about the assets of the TM organization is > difficult to confirm or refute. The most expensive asset > in the USA, I am reasonably confident, is the MUM campus, > and I suspect you aren't seriously suggesting that they > sell MUM so people can learn for cheaper for a brief period. > > The most expensive assets in India are likely real estate > holdings in New Delhi and other large cities, and those are > controlled by the Indian branch of the TM organization, with > all the bickering and in-fighting over how those properties > should be managed that we all have read reports of in > Fairfield Life. > > I have spoken with people who own retail businesses and > they tend to agree: if you price something too low, no-one > takes it seriously. I've been waiting for you to trot out this old piece of dogma. You learned it from TM teachers, who learned to parrot it from Maharishi: "If you give something away for free, no one in the West values it, so they stop meditating." Stuff like that. HOW then do you explain the DLF program, in which (as I understand it, based mainly on you talking about it here) EVERYONE who learns TM through its auspices is getting it for free? They (the end users) didn't contribute a penny. So why aren't they not valuing the meditation and stopping the practice of it in droves. Oh. Maybe they are. But maybe that has nothing to do with having received it for free.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Bootleg UK TM teachers
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: > > Because they love deceit - they learned it from their beloved Master, Marshy > the Hood-winker I imagine it's more a legal thing. Because the Marshy Foundation was a charity they weren't supposed to be involved with politics so we used to have two phones on our desks, one for NLP, the other with a MF sign. You had to get it right as well, if journo's had got a whiff that a foreign religious group were trying to influence British politics it might have made a good story so they had to dredge up George Harrison for a speech instead. Can't imagine what the problem is with the DLF. Simple branding perhaps? Whatever, it's stupid for one part of the same organisation to offer discounts for the other half. Seems like a long way round to just lowering the fee again. > > From: salyavin808 > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, April 9, 2013 4:31 AM > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Bootleg UK TM teachers > > > Â > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote: > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Archer" wrote: > > > > > > Anyone know of a TM teacher in the Birmingham, UK area who is teaching > > > independently, and thus inexpensively? > > > > > > > The DLF has a UK branch now, and there are scholarships/grants available > > through the DLF to bring the pricing down to more sane levels. > > If the TMO also thinks the price is too high why don't they > lower it then they wouldn't have to put up this DLF charade > to kid people it isn't the same organisation? > > > L > > >
[FairfieldLife] Re: Bootleg UK TM teachers
You may be correct about when the price change happened. I thought it was before MMY died, but perhaps it was after. Your point about the assets of the TM organization is difficult to confirm or refute. The most expensive asset in the USA, I am reasonably confident, is the MUM campus, and I suspect you aren't seriously suggesting that they sell MUM so people can learn for cheaper for a brief period. The most expensive assets in India are likely real estate holdings in New Delhi and other large cities, and those are controlled by the Indian branch of the TM organization, with all the bickering and in-fighting over how those properties should be managed that we all have read reports of in Fairfield Life. I have spoken with people who own retail businesses and they tend to agree: if you price something too low, no-one takes it seriously. As it stands now, children and veterans can learn TM for free from a full time TM teacher who is paid about $60,000-$75,000 a year to provide a 8-12 month formal followup program to groups of 200 people through existing institutions like schools, orphanages, veterans groups, homeless shelters, etc. The generic lifetime followup is included. With the deal with Microsoft, this price apparently dropped another 10-15%, so that 100 kids cost $25,000 including the formal followup as well as the generic lifetime followup. The City of Rio de Janeiro has basically put all 1,000,000 kids in their public schools on the waiting list with the DLF according to a government website I saw a few years ago. You may believe that a smaller, less costly organization would be able to credibly contemplate teaching a million kids to meditate -all while maintaining decent quality control for the teachers- in a single city, but if you really do, then I call you stupid. You obviously aren't stupid, so you're just trolling, as usual. L --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote: > > > > It's the price MMY set before he died. THat's pretty much > > the long and short of it. > > As I understand it, Lawson, this is simply not true. > The price in the US to learn TM when Maharishi died > was $2500. Now it's $1500. That change happened after > he kicked the bucket. > > If they changed it once, they could change it again, > to something more reasonable, say $250. That would > *still* be too high in the "meditation marketplace" > as it stands today, but it wouldn't make the TMO > look so much like the money-grubbing organization > almost everyone perceives it as. > > The bottom line, which you continually ignore, is > that the organization *setting* these prices and thus > declaring to the world who is "worthy" to learn TM > (the wealthy or well-to-do) and who is not (everyone > else) is sitting on assets in excess of a billion > dollars. This simply is inconsistent with its stated > goal of getting as many people to learn TM as possible. > One cannot *help* but look at this and realize that > the TMO is pretty much the role model for hypocrisy. > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "salyavin808" > > wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote: > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Archer" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Anyone know of a TM teacher in the Birmingham, UK area who is teaching > > > > > independently, and thus inexpensively? > > > > > > > > The DLF has a UK branch now, and there are scholarships/grants > > > > available through the DLF to bring the pricing down to more sane levels. > > > > > > If the TMO also thinks the price is too high why don't they > > > lower it then they wouldn't have to put up this DLF charade > > > to kid people it isn't the same organisation? > > > > > > > L > > > > > > > > > >
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Bootleg UK TM teachers
Because they love deceit - they learned it from their beloved Master, Marshy the Hood-winker From: salyavin808 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, April 9, 2013 4:31 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Bootleg UK TM teachers --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Archer" wrote: > > > > Anyone know of a TM teacher in the Birmingham, UK area who is teaching > > independently, and thus inexpensively? > > > > The DLF has a UK branch now, and there are scholarships/grants available > through the DLF to bring the pricing down to more sane levels. If the TMO also thinks the price is too high why don't they lower it then they wouldn't have to put up this DLF charade to kid people it isn't the same organisation? > L >
[FairfieldLife] Re: Bootleg UK TM teachers
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote: > > It's the price MMY set before he died. THat's pretty much > the long and short of it. As I understand it, Lawson, this is simply not true. The price in the US to learn TM when Maharishi died was $2500. Now it's $1500. That change happened after he kicked the bucket. If they changed it once, they could change it again, to something more reasonable, say $250. That would *still* be too high in the "meditation marketplace" as it stands today, but it wouldn't make the TMO look so much like the money-grubbing organization almost everyone perceives it as. The bottom line, which you continually ignore, is that the organization *setting* these prices and thus declaring to the world who is "worthy" to learn TM (the wealthy or well-to-do) and who is not (everyone else) is sitting on assets in excess of a billion dollars. This simply is inconsistent with its stated goal of getting as many people to learn TM as possible. One cannot *help* but look at this and realize that the TMO is pretty much the role model for hypocrisy. > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "salyavin808" wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Archer" wrote: > > > > > > > > Anyone know of a TM teacher in the Birmingham, UK area who is teaching > > > > independently, and thus inexpensively? > > > > > > The DLF has a UK branch now, and there are scholarships/grants available > > > through the DLF to bring the pricing down to more sane levels. > > > > If the TMO also thinks the price is too high why don't they > > lower it then they wouldn't have to put up this DLF charade > > to kid people it isn't the same organisation? > > > > > L > > > > > >
[FairfieldLife] Re: Bootleg UK TM teachers
It's the price MMY set before he died. THat's pretty much the long and short of it. L --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "salyavin808" wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote: > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Archer" wrote: > > > > > > Anyone know of a TM teacher in the Birmingham, UK area who is teaching > > > independently, and thus inexpensively? > > > > > > > The DLF has a UK branch now, and there are scholarships/grants available > > through the DLF to bring the pricing down to more sane levels. > > If the TMO also thinks the price is too high why don't they > lower it then they wouldn't have to put up this DLF charade > to kid people it isn't the same organisation? > > > L > > >
[FairfieldLife] Re: Bootleg UK TM teachers
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Archer" wrote: > > > > Anyone know of a TM teacher in the Birmingham, UK area who is teaching > > independently, and thus inexpensively? > > > > The DLF has a UK branch now, and there are scholarships/grants available > through the DLF to bring the pricing down to more sane levels. If the TMO also thinks the price is too high why don't they lower it then they wouldn't have to put up this DLF charade to kid people it isn't the same organisation? > L >
[FairfieldLife] Re: Bootleg UK TM teachers
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Archer" wrote: > > Anyone know of a TM teacher in the Birmingham, UK area who is teaching > independently, and thus inexpensively? > The DLF has a UK branch now, and there are scholarships/grants available through the DLF to bring the pricing down to more sane levels. L
[FairfieldLife] Re: Bootleg UK TM teachers
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Archer" wrote: > > Anyone know of a TM teacher in the Birmingham, UK area who is teaching > independently, and thus inexpensively? The same fellow who puts all the funds in his own pockets, prevents his students from taking advanced techniques and stops them from going to international courses ?
