[FairfieldLife] Re: Greetings from Occupied Wall Street
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seekliberation seekliberation@... wrote: Keep in mind as you complain about how horrible and difficult your life is, a garbage man or a pizza delivery man in today's world lives a more luxurious life with more entertainment than the King of England or the Emporor of Japan did 100 years ago. Our quality of life here in America is better than any civilization in the history of the world. 100 years? Think 10. I recently thought of my history with Netfix (the DVD part, so old skewl now though for me still the main game in town due to its Long Tail massive diversity of obscure films) 12 years of red envelopes. I watched (non-blue ray, oh the horror) DVDs on my 27 Sony XBR TV a bargain at $1200 its picture quality so good I thought. Or sometimes I would watch on my PC, some single core processor running at dismal (but them seemingly blazing) speeds, on Windows -2000 (ah! no more bluescreens of death how naïve). RAM was getting so cheap, was it a glorious 16 MB that I had, I forget, or was that still the 4 MB era? My monitor, one of the largest available, was so heavy it took two to move around in all of its CRT glory at what would pass now for caveman resolutions. Cable had an amazing 50 channels or so. Some pretty grainy, but still! I did have one of the earlier cable modems, was it 200 kbps? Maybe if the neighbors were not sucking up the capacity of the local hub. We had come so far since those 300 baud modem days of a few years prior. Man, was I wired! Little realized what bondage such tethering held relative to the wireless world of HD streaming mobile devices. Really, would you go back and live in those brutish, archaic times? Up to 1900 or so, your 100 years ago, knowledge was doubling every century blazing compared to the long history of humankind. Future Shock, the Toffler best seller when I was back in school for the summer after my TTC in 1971 heralded the being shot out of a cannon speed of change, knowledge doubling every 20 years or so. Um, I still did not own a 4 function calculator those god like devices that some career surging acquaintances had recently scored. Dean Brown at Humboldt the summer before had talked about his work at SRI and this pipedream sci fi fantasy about a book of knowledge the size of a large paperback, that would contain all of the knowledge of the world. Well, that was clearly crazy, but huge new vistas were emerging, like the Whole Earth catalog , I mean like it was almost infinite in the new and cool stuff it revealed. Today the knowledge doubling rate is every 2 years. Not the static Moore's law exponential growth of PCs, doubling in power at half the cost every 18 months, but the rate of knowledge doubling itself was accelerating. In ten years, what, doubling every two months? What happens when it doubles every day? And what is the half-life of knowledge then? How fast does knowledge then become obsolete? Knowledge becoming obsolete far faster than we can learn it. Various glimpses of royalty (from your 100 years ago comparison) through the ages from the likes of Camelot (Eva Green one), Robin Hood (Russell Crowe one) [which begs the question of when will Eva Green and Russell Crowe be royal together in some epic and spawn wonder kinder) and the Tudors (though far from historically accurate, the sets and costumes at least appear to be well researched, gotta love those early tennis matches.) Pretty drab existence. I mean I love wood fires, but as the only source of warmth in a cold winter, in those large drafty castles? Working by candlelight, writing letters by hand, dispatched to your courier for rapid delivery some weeks hence. But the sex seemed good then as always well, from afar. Those acne scarred half toothed babes in their mid 20's (modern dentistry, though has its merits.) But that pastoral life, the citizenry of farmers, abundant fresh organic food, fresh air, clean water, unspoiled vistas, nights not spoiled with 100 channel blathering, time to read and ponder. Was that really a life of impoverishment? Amidst all this talk of comparative material sparseness, I did have thoughts similar to Turq's, If part of you is seeking something other than what the current moment and your current state of attention presents to you, that really is the opposite of liberation. Liberation is having gotten over the seeking thang. There is a delicious paradox there. Can one not seek technological wonders, but still joyfully dance with those wonders? And the reverse side of seeking is having gotten over the loss thang. Who among us would gladly abandon the last 20 years of progress (um, man, that means no internet) -- fully content with a current moment of technological backwater years. And if 20 years ago was like a wonderland compared to 20 years earlier (when Toffler was saying we were being shot out of a cannon) how will we view
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Greetings from Occupied Wall Street
In reading about his life, he was a survivor. From: seventhray1 steve.sun...@sbcglobal.net To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, October 2, 2011 3:06 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Greetings from Occupied Wall Street Bernie burned him bad. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Denise Evans dmevans365@... wrote: I've seen several quotes by Elie Wiesel recently - interesting character in my view for his time.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Greetings from Occupied Wall Street
One of the Just Ones came to Sodom, determined to save its inhabitants from sin and punishment. Night and day the Just One walked the streets and markets preaching against greed and theft, falsehood and indifference. In the beginning, people listened and smiled ironically. Then they stopped listening; they were no longer amused. The killers went on killing, the wise kept silent, as if there were no Just One in their midst. One day a child, moved by compassion, approached the unfortunate preacher with these words. Poor stranger. You shout, you expend your body and soul; don't you see that it is hopeless? Yes, I see, answered the Just One. Then why do you go on? I'll tell you why. In the beginning, I thought I could change humankind. Today, I know I cannot. If I still shout today, if I still scream, it is to prevent humankind from ultimately changing me. ~Elie Wiesel http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elie_Wiesel From: seekliberation seekliberat...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, October 1, 2011 8:24 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Greetings from Occupied Wall Street --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@... wrote: The global economy is pretty far gone. The US banks sold a bunch of toxic assets to a lot for foreign banks. A lot of foreign leaders about now would probably secretly want to see the US nuked out of existence. We are the 21st century bogeyman. the us banks don't really have much of value to offer to the rest of the world. We went off the gold standard a long time ago, and there is nothing 'real' that backs the US dollar anymore. We not only screwed ourselves in order to maintain a lifestyle that is unsustainable, but now we're screwing the rest of the world too. But hey, we're Americans, we get what we want and need, because that's how life automatically works! right? They could create a bank and put all those toxic assets in it and then write it off. You may indeed see a total collapse but it may not result in a Road Warrior society. Just a simpler more human and down to earth one. I'm not sure what city you live in, but look at what happens in towns like New Orleans or Los Angeles when the system breaks down. The midwest will be a rather safe place. But most cities i've lived in will get really ugly before they get better (if there is an actual 'total' collapse). In fact, the midwest is the only place in America i'd feel safe (for the most part). You can exclude certain parts of Texas and other remote areas where there are 'meth' labs. Your mindset seems very conservative, much like a hard liner. Remember the Chinese hard liners? I equivocate hard liners with assholes. If the rest of the world were like them we would still be living in caves. I'm not a hardliner in terms of trying to force others to live according to my ideals. But I am a hardliner in terms of doing whatever I have to in order to take care of and provide for myself without screwing other people over. If that makes me an asshole, then i'm an asshole. I don't ask my parents for money, I don't max out credit cards, I don't declare bankruptcy and force other taxpayers to bail me out, I don't blame others for my problems, and the list goes on of what I won't do. Maybe being an asshole is the secret to not screwing others over. Plus you sound very belligerent. Maybe you listen to Rush too much? Perhaps you ought to actually trying seeking liberation rather than bondage. What are you accusing me of being attached to? I distinctly remember in my last post that it makes no difference to me what direction we go in. I can easily survive with things the way they are. If the system collapses, i'll find a way to get by. So for me, I have no reason to attach to anything, or try to avoid anything. You, on the other hand, seem to have a strong desire to go in a specific direction. That is attachment. Liberation involves letting go and not controlling, being able to get by regardless of external circumstances. Believe me, if there's an easier way, i'd love nothing more than to experience it. I would've been much happier in a country like Denmark. But I wasn't born there, so, in a true sense of what liberation means, I won't dwell on what isn't meant to be. Perhaps my cynacism is percieved as belligerence. I guess being surrounded by matierialists my whole life, I just love watching them be so frustrated and watch the walls come crumbling down in front of them. That's why I love the idea of seeing the system collapse. If you're theory that all the enlightened and intelligent people are going to revolt, take over, and establish a Utopiathen i've got no doubt i'm intelligent and industrious enough to be a prominent member of such a society and i'll be more than happy. I'll also be happy if things stay the way they are. I'll also
[FairfieldLife] Re: Greetings from Occupied Wall Street
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seekliberation seekliberation@... wrote: Keep in mind as you complain about how horrible and difficult your life is, a garbage man or a pizza delivery man in today's world lives a more luxurious life with more entertainment than the King of England or the Emporor of Japan did 100 years ago. Our quality of life here in America is better than any civilization in the history of the world. Did Hollywood brainwash you to believe this nonsense ? And did you ever visit a country outside your own ?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Greetings from Occupied Wall Street
I've been in over 40 countries. South Pacific Islands, Africa, all over Europe, SE Asia, and Middle East. Considering the existence of internet, IPODs, cell phones, automobiles, Cable TV, Air conditioning and heating, etc, I don't think my statement below is that far off track. I'd much rather live in today's world as a working class man than live in royalty 100+ years ago. Well, maybe the early 1900's wasn't too bad, but if you get any earlier than thatforget it. seekliberation --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seekliberation seekliberation@ wrote: Keep in mind as you complain about how horrible and difficult your life is, a garbage man or a pizza delivery man in today's world lives a more luxurious life with more entertainment than the King of England or the Emporor of Japan did 100 years ago. Our quality of life here in America is better than any civilization in the history of the world. Did Hollywood brainwash you to believe this nonsense ? And did you ever visit a country outside your own ?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Greetings from Occupied Wall Street
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seekliberation seekliberation@... wrote: I've been in over 40 countries. South Pacific Islands, Africa, all over Europe, SE Asia, and Middle East. You kept your dark sunglasses on during those trips I assume. It's tempting to ask which countries in Europe you visited, but I'll refrain. You're not seeking liberation but status quo. Our quality of life here in America is better than any civilization in the history of the world. Considering the existence of internet, IPODs, cell phones, automobiles, Cable TV, Air conditioning and heating, etc, I don't think my statement below is that far off track. I'd much rather live in today's world as a working class man than live in royalty 100+ years ago. Well, maybe the early 1900's wasn't too bad, but if you get any earlier than thatforget it. seekliberation --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seekliberation seekliberation@ wrote: Keep in mind as you complain about how horrible and difficult your life is, a garbage man or a pizza delivery man in today's world lives a more luxurious life with more entertainment than the King of England or the Emporor of Japan did 100 years ago. Our quality of life here in America is better than any civilization in the history of the world. Did Hollywood brainwash you to believe this nonsense ? And did you ever visit a country outside your own ?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Greetings from Occupied Wall Street
Greece, France, Spain, Germany, Kosovo, Turkey, England Italyoff the top of my head. Keep in mind, most of those countries are 1st world countries which make up the minority of countries in the world, so they don't apply to my original statement. 3rd world countries are the majority in this world. And as far as the original statement goes, what makes you think that a working class man in America today doesn't have an easier or more entertaining life than anyone 100+ years ago? And what do other countries have to do with the original statement? I think you simply took out one of my quotes about life in America today being better than anytime in the history of the world, then you thought I was putting America up on a pedestal over other countries(which is the opposite of what I was trying to do). So I will add a clause to thatExcluding a few countries in Europe, Canada, and Australia. But that is debatable depending on a person's state of mind. I, personally, stated in a previous post that I probably would've been happier if I were born in Denmark (you could also include England and a few others to that list). So you can expand my original statement by saying any working class person in 'almost' any 1st world country today has it much better than royalty 100+ years ago. Regarding seeking liberation vs. status quo, seeking ANYTHING is the opposite of liberation. True liberation only comes when you stop seeking and realize the bliss of the present moment as it is. I can assure you, i'm not seeking status quo at all. If things change, that's fine, if they don'tthat's fine too. That is liberation, as opposed to attachment to change or no change. I created my online nickname at a time when I was younger, more naive, and was under the illusion that my own personal efforts were in 100% control of evolution/spirituality. Not saying i've achieved liberation in its fullest sense, but neither has anyone on this forum, or on this planet for that matter, otherwise they wouldn't have been incarnated here (with the exception of perhaps a few souls). seekliberation You kept your dark sunglasses on during those trips I assume. It's tempting to ask which countries in Europe you visited, but I'll refrain. You're not seeking liberation but status quo. Our quality of life here in America is better than any civilization in the history of the world. Considering the existence of internet, IPODs, cell phones, automobiles, Cable TV, Air conditioning and heating, etc, I don't think my statement below is that far off track. I'd much rather live in today's world as a working class man than live in royalty 100+ years ago. Well, maybe the early 1900's wasn't too bad, but if you get any earlier than thatforget it. seekliberation --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seekliberation seekliberation@ wrote: Keep in mind as you complain about how horrible and difficult your life is, a garbage man or a pizza delivery man in today's world lives a more luxurious life with more entertainment than the King of England or the Emporor of Japan did 100 years ago. Our quality of life here in America is better than any civilization in the history of the world. Did Hollywood brainwash you to believe this nonsense ? And did you ever visit a country outside your own ?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Greetings from Occupied Wall Street
Ignoring Nabby's sniping, I'll focus on the part of your post that interests me... --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seekliberation seekliberation@... wrote: Regarding seeking liberation vs. status quo, seeking ANYTHING is the opposite of liberation. Such a simple statement. Such a simple truth. If part of you is seeking something other than what the current moment and your current state of attention presents to you, that really is the opposite of liberation. Liberation is having gotten over the seeking thang. True liberation only comes when you stop seeking and realize the bliss of the present moment as it is. I can assure you, i'm not seeking status quo at all. If things change, that's fine, if they don'tthat's fine too. That is liberation, as opposed to attachment to change or no change. I tend to agree. True, some may say that there are various staqes of liberation, and I would not disagree with them, but that first step of getting over the feeling that one is somehow incomplete if they haven't achieved some goal or another is a BIG step. If it helps to hear it, I too have given up on seeking as a losing proposition. I created my online nickname at a time when I was younger, more naive, and was under the illusion that my own personal efforts were in 100% control of evolution/spirituality. I think I was already off the path in terms of seeking when I created my screen name. I adopted the pen name of the Sixth Dalai Lama because I really like him, and enjoy being reminded of him and his life whenever I post. Not saying i've achieved liberation in its fullest sense, but neither has anyone on this forum, or on this planet for that matter, otherwise they wouldn't have been incarnated here (with the exception of perhaps a few souls). I think I agree with what you're saying up to the otherwise thang. I'm not convinced that part is true. I think it's just as likely for a liberation in its fullest sense person to reincarnate as any other person. Some do it to teach. Some, for fun. Some just roll the dice when dying time comes, and seek nothing in particular. They just die and wait to see what happens, and then try their best to enjoy it, whatever it is.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Greetings from Occupied Wall Street
You're probably right. I didn't include the possibility that some souls are incarnated here simply to teach (Jesus, Buddha, Shankaracharyas, etc...). But for the most part, from everything i've learned or been taught, this world is supposed to be like a 'school' for the unenlightened. The reason our souls are not in a better place is because we're all in a problematic state of mind (some more so than others, obviously). We're here to become enlightened. Then it's on to bigger and better thingssupposedly. Certainly, some enlightened souls may hang around for a while, just like some adults still hang around high school (teachers, janitors, staff, coaches, etc...). But for the most part, once you surpass the need for learning, you move away from that learning environment. Of course, neither myself or anyone else i've ever met can really say this is all true with any authority. I could be entirely off track for all I know. seekliberation Not saying i've achieved liberation in its fullest sense, but neither has anyone on this forum, or on this planet for that matter, otherwise they wouldn't have been incarnated here (with the exception of perhaps a few souls). I think I agree with what you're saying up to the otherwise thang. I'm not convinced that part is true. I think it's just as likely for a liberation in its fullest sense person to reincarnate as any other person. Some do it to teach. Some, for fun. Some just roll the dice when dying time comes, and seek nothing in particular. They just die and wait to see what happens, and then try their best to enjoy it, whatever it is.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Greetings from Occupied Wall Street
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seekliberation seekliberation@... wrote: snip So you can expand my original statement by saying any working class person in 'almost' any 1st world country today has it much better than royalty 100+ years ago. If I may chime in with a thought... There are discussions where We have it better here than anywhere else, and better than at any other time is a useful point. But when it translates to So stop complaining, it becomes questionable, a potential thought-stopper. If things could be better here than they are now, why shouldn't that be addressed? Especially if it's an issue of unfairness of one sort or another (which is what we're dealing with in this thread). If there's unfairness here, what entitles us to criticize unfairness elsewhere? Does the fact that things used to be even more unfair than they are now mean we have to live with the current unfairness? We need to clean up our own house, be the best we can be, IMHO.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Greetings from Occupied Wall Street
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seekliberation seekliberation@... wrote: You're probably right. I didn't include the possibility that some souls are incarnated here simply to teach (Jesus, Buddha, Shankaracharyas, etc...). But for the most part, from everything i've learned or been taught, this world is supposed to be like a 'school' for the unenlightened. I don't buy this. I don't actually see that much difference between the descriptions of Brahmaloka in various scriptures and what I see around me every day. Same guys and gals, acting out the same old soap opera plots of this god sneakin' into this other god's honeypot's...uh...sacred places. War here, war there. Pettiness here, pettiness there. Where's the difference? :-) The reason our souls are not in a better place is because we're all in a problematic state of mind (some more so than others, obviously). We're here to become enlightened. You're certain of this? :-) Then it's on to bigger and better thingssupposedly. Certainly, some enlightened souls may hang around for a while, just like some adults still hang around high school (teachers, janitors, staff, coaches, etc...). Dude! Whatever Edg may have said about me in the past, I SO do not hang out near high schools. :-) Just havin' fun. Your comment made me think of a fun plot idea. Sorta like Steven King's Carrie, but instead of having been reborn as a telekinetic crazy person, Carrie's been reborn as a Buddha. There is a good horror movie in this. :-) Good raps, lately, dude. I've been enjoying them...
[FairfieldLife] Re: Greetings from Occupied Wall Street
You're right, things could get better, and I hope they do (in terms of the fairness you're talking about). I believe the long line of discussions led from one thing to another, and it seemed to me that some of the complaints were legitimate while some were leaning towards childish whining. That's the only reason I pointed out how easy we have it. I probably went way off on a tangent with that point, as do most discussions on this forum. The original point I made was that this whole economic mess, IMHO, is a problem that will be solved more on an individual level than on the level of politics policy. That spawned a long list of arguments/counter arguments which led to my statement that life is still easier than ever before. But the overall point from the beginning, is that we aren't going to fix this country by changing a policy, electing a charismatic or charming leader, or signing a bill. We will have to make a major adjustment in our own state of mind and way of life at the individual level. seekliberation If I may chime in with a thought... There are discussions where We have it better here than anywhere else, and better than at any other time is a useful point. But when it translates to So stop complaining, it becomes questionable, a potential thought-stopper. If things could be better here than they are now, why shouldn't that be addressed? Especially if it's an issue of unfairness of one sort or another (which is what we're dealing with in this thread). If there's unfairness here, what entitles us to criticize unfairness elsewhere? Does the fact that things used to be even more unfair than they are now mean we have to live with the current unfairness? We need to clean up our own house, be the best we can be, IMHO.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Greetings from Occupied Wall Street
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seekliberation seekliberation@... wrote: You're right, things could get better, and I hope they do (in terms of the fairness you're talking about). I believe the long line of discussions led from one thing to another, and it seemed to me that some of the complaints were legitimate while some were leaning towards childish whining. That's the only reason I pointed out how easy we have it. I probably went way off on a tangent with that point, as do most discussions on this forum. True. That comment leaped out at me because it tends to be used carelessly. The original point I made was that this whole economic mess, IMHO, is a problem that will be solved more on an individual level than on the level of politics policy. That spawned a long list of arguments/counter arguments which led to my statement that life is still easier than ever before. But the overall point from the beginning, is that we aren't going to fix this country by changing a policy, electing a charismatic or charming leader, or signing a bill. We will have to make a major adjustment in our own state of mind and way of life at the individual level. I don't know if I agree with you on this--at least not in the sense that we have to wait until that adjustment has taken place across the board before we can really do anything to improve the situation. Policy changes and legislation can make a big difference, maybe even themselves facilitate attitude adjustment. Of course we need an attitude adjustment on the part of those who make policy and pass legislation. Sometimes that requires an attitude adjustment to take place first on the part of their constituents, but not always by any means. Anyway, I guess I see it as a more integrated, interactive process, working from both ends at once for change. One example that occurs to me is same-sex marriage. Some attitude adjustment had to take place before there could be legislation to make it legal, but making it legal has resulted in a change of attitude on the part of many of those who didn't support the legislation initially. Once folks get used to having same-sex married couples living next door, they tend to realize there was never a good reason to prohibit same-sex marriage in the first place. Same thing is in the process of taking place with the repeal of DADT. The financial issues are going to be a lot tougher to fix. The Wall Street protests are, as I said to Bhairitu, a start. Folks are beginning to think about it. The case hasn't really been made yet in a way that will be broadly acceptable, but the seeds are being planted.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Greetings from Occupied Wall Street
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Denise Evans dmevans365@... wrote: snip I'll tell you why. Â In the beginning, I thought I could change humankind. Â Today, I know I cannot. Â If I still shout today, if I still scream, it is to prevent humankind from ultimately changing me. This kind of thing just doesn't move me anymore. Maybe 30 years ago you drop this line at the end of a speech, and people go ooh and ah. That time passed, for me at least.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Greetings from Occupied Wall Street
It's true that different quotes speak to each of us at different times in our lives. I'm currently doing some introspection and revisiting my past, for whatever reason. 30 years ago I was 18...and screaming loudly. I've seen several quotes by Elie Wiesel recently - interesting character in my view for his time. From: seventhray1 steve.sun...@sbcglobal.net To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, October 2, 2011 10:10 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Greetings from Occupied Wall Street --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Denise Evans dmevans365@... wrote: snip I'll tell you why. Â In the beginning, I thought I could change humankind. Â Today, I know I cannot. Â If I still shout today, if I still scream, it is to prevent humankind from ultimately changing me. This kind of thing just doesn't move me anymore. Maybe 30 years ago you drop this line at the end of a speech, and people go ooh and ah. That time passed, for me at least.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Greetings from Occupied Wall Street
On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 12:57 PM, Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net wrote: By bringing attention to the criminals who have crippled the US economy and the global economy as well. These goons need to be arrested, tried and locked away in prison. As long as they reign you will not see an improved economy, just mass theft by them. They all travel internationally. Why not just wait 'till they leave the country then shoot 'em down from a drone?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Greetings from Occupied Wall Street
true, policy at the top level can help make adjustments at lower levels. But in relation to the original discussion, I believe it's going to take a lot more than just electing a charismatic leader who makes some policy change to fix our nations economy as a whole. My opinion, FWIW, is that we are a nation of consumption without contribution to match it, takers rather than givers, or people with a sense of entitlement with a warped view of what we're really entitled to. I think that as long as we function in that mindset, we will have problems no matter what policies are in place. I could expand on what i'm talking about in terms of consumption vs. contribution, but I assume you get the point. I don't necessarily like Obama, but I dislike the heat he got for admiring Europe so much, because a lot of Europe is a good economic model. But what his primary mistake was that he assumed Europe is doing better because of policy rather than giving credit to their citizens. Most of their countries citizens do not consume or waste nearly as much as Americans do. I don't believe they expect quite as much either. From what I have seen, they don't have the same laziness as we do either. I don't mean to say they are raging workaholics. What I am saying is that their proportion of work and expectations for benefits are a lot more balanced than here in America. Until Americans can achieve more balance like that, I don't know that any policy at a higher level is going to guarantee a better outcome. My opinion is that Americans are very bi-polar, either greedy or lazy. I haven't met very many in-betweens, though they are out there. I think that is the fundamental change that needs to take place. seekliberation I don't know if I agree with you on this--at least not in the sense that we have to wait until that adjustment has taken place across the board before we can really do anything to improve the situation. Policy changes and legislation can make a big difference, maybe even themselves facilitate attitude adjustment. Of course we need an attitude adjustment on the part of those who make policy and pass legislation. Sometimes that requires an attitude adjustment to take place first on the part of their constituents, but not always by any means. Anyway, I guess I see it as a more integrated, interactive process, working from both ends at once for change. One example that occurs to me is same-sex marriage. Some attitude adjustment had to take place before there could be legislation to make it legal, but making it legal has resulted in a change of attitude on the part of many of those who didn't support the legislation initially. Once folks get used to having same-sex married couples living next door, they tend to realize there was never a good reason to prohibit same-sex marriage in the first place. Same thing is in the process of taking place with the repeal of DADT. The financial issues are going to be a lot tougher to fix. The Wall Street protests are, as I said to Bhairitu, a start. Folks are beginning to think about it. The case hasn't really been made yet in a way that will be broadly acceptable, but the seeds are being planted.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Greetings from Occupied Wall Street
On 10/02/2011 10:24 AM, Tom Pall wrote: On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 12:57 PM, Bhairitunoozg...@sbcglobal.net wrote: By bringing attention to the criminals who have crippled the US economy and the global economy as well. These goons need to be arrested, tried and locked away in prison. As long as they reign you will not see an improved economy, just mass theft by them. They all travel internationally. Why not just wait 'till they leave the country then shoot 'em down from a drone? Many of them fly over my house in their copters as they go to and from their offices in San Francisco to Buchanan Field where they started parking their corporate jets about a year after 9/11. That field is away from any major airport in the Bay Area so probably less hassle in coming and going as they please. And they do this anytime day or night. And yes the corporate jets sometimes go flying over.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Greetings from Occupied Wall Street
Show me a sane man and I will cure him for you. Carl Jung --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seekliberation seekliberation@... wrote: You're right, things could get better, and I hope they do (in terms of the fairness you're talking about). snip But the overall point from the beginning, is that we aren't going to fix this country by changing a policy, electing a charismatic or charming leader, or signing a bill. We will have to make a major adjustment in our own state of mind and way of life at the individual level. seekliberation
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Greetings from Occupied Wall Street
On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 2:13 PM, seekliberation seekliberat...@yahoo.comwrote: My opinion is that Americans are very bi-polar, either greedy or lazy. I haven't met very many in-betweens, though they are out there. I think that is the fundamental change that needs to take place. You lie down with dogs, you get up with fleas. Such is it with China and India. We import zillions of Indians who wouldn't even qualify to have a high school diploma in the US, their college education is a sham. We import the 3rd world in to do professional jobs, we export what used to be our good paying skilled labor jobs out of the country. So we become a third world country. Perot was right. That great big sucking sound.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Greetings from Occupied Wall Street
You're blaming the the average American because they were sold these things by the con men? I'm blaming both. The drug dealer and the drug user are both doing something wrong, not just one or the other. I've pointed out many times here on FFL, this is a conspiracy to put people out of their homes so the crooks can buy them for pennies on the dollar. And for the record, I'm not the only one saying this. It is an open conspiracy and becoming more and more evident each day. I'm in agreement with you that there is some corruption out there. The whole housing market boom of the 90's was a big crock of shit. Selling homes to people who can't read between the lines. The only difference between you and me is that I feel it is a 2-way street to avoid this calamity, whereas you think it is a simple matter of bringing down the giant. My opinion is people need to be smarter than that, and at the same time big business Wall St. shouldn't take advantage of people that easily. My point was that things don't have to turn ugly if we make sure that austerity measures are not forced down the public throats while the rich continue to live high on the hog. I hope it doesn't turn ugly. But America has shown its true colors many times when people didn't have their needs met, New Orleans in 2004-05 was a good example. But then in Tennessee when those horrible floods came in, there were no serious problems at all, so it all comes down to the territory you're in. I, personally, am not in all that safe of a place. That is the 'tude that makes you sound like a wingnut. They are always spouting such platitudes and bragging about how perfect they are. It is very elitist. I don't hear liberals bragging about themselves anywhere near as much. I don't think i'm perfect, I just don't allow my imperfections to cause problems to other people. And i'm no elitist either, and can't stand being around them. An elitist is usually someone who tries to outperform others or has an attitude of being above others. If anything, I tend to think less of myself as opposed to more. Strange that you'd say i'm an elitist, nobody who knows me would ever say such a thing. If I say the sky is blue today with intermittent cumulus clouds does that mean I'm attached to the sky? Likewise if I want to talk about economic policy, protests, etc it doesn't mean I'm attached to them anymore than I'm attached to the sky. Line on water. Liberation ain't a 'tude dude. It's a state of consciousness. I assume most people here are well on the way down that road. But I think you have a naive understanding of liberation and are trying to project it on others. You certainly misperceive me. You're right, it is a state of consciousness. No, I am not trying to project anything on anyone, and I have my doubts as to whether or not my understanding of spirituality could be categorized as 'naive'. And no, there is no problem with talking about economy/protests. You and I do see the same problem with Wall Street and big business. We will have to agree to disagree on whether or not it's a 'one way street' of fixing the problem or not. I still contend that Americans need to wisen up. Perhaps we have too many kids dropping out of school and too many adults unable to distinguish between a good deal and a bad deal. I think both the economic giants and the common people need some work. Collapse is just change. One could have predicted (and folks did) 200 years ago this country would eventually collapse. A capitalistic system needs lots of slack and space to survive. As the population rises it is not so wonderful at providing the population with life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. So a new system needs to come into place. Fine with me! Ignorance is not bliss. Sticking your head in the sand is not liberation, it is ignorance. Do you really want the US to become one big corporation? Would you want to live in a world where you only get what rights a corporation will give you? Corporations aren't democratic. We can agree do disagree on this one too. I don't see improvising to my circumstances as being ignorant. There were times in my life where I was working way more than I wanted, so I made changes in my life to get away from that. I'm doing really well now and not working nearly as hard. And as far as corporations giving rights? You'll have to explain that one in depth to me. I've never worked for any company where I had any major rights taken away from me. Which brings me back to the young people who are involved in the protests. A few months back here I reported on a study which showed that 20 somethings did not want to work as hard as previous generations. They have decided they want to earn less money and have more free time. Working 80 hour weeks is not a very good life. And if as I've also been posting here there is only enough work on this planet for people to be working 1/3 of the year.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Greetings from Occupied Wall Street
Bernie burned him bad. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Denise Evans dmevans365@... wrote: I've seen several quotes by Elie Wiesel recently - interesting character in my view for his time.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Greetings from Occupied Wall Street
funny you mention Perot. I turned 18 when he was running for Pres. I wanted him to win. Everyone I worked with was either a die hard democrat or republican and considered me to be young, stupid, and naive for looking at an independant. seekliberation Perot was right. That great big sucking sound.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Greetings from Occupied Wall Street
On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 6:28 PM, seekliberation seekliberat...@yahoo.comwrote: funny you mention Perot. I turned 18 when he was running for Pres. I wanted him to win. Everyone I worked with was either a die hard democrat or republican and considered me to be young, stupid, and naive for looking at an independant. But of course Perot was a nutcase who's ideas were unworkable. Plus, a somewhat credible third party candidate splits the electoral college the wrong way, in opposition to the general will of the people. I was watching a biography of Ralph Nadir right now. There was a brief flash of the turbulent 60s hippie times. Imagine today's youth going counterculture. With Starbucks, Spring Break and $400 cell phones. Amazing. The hippies went into business, became the ultimate in consumers, raised a bunch of spoiled, unruly brats that got us to where the world is now. Yup, social engineer always works, doesn't it?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Greetings from Occupied Wall Street
your point below is what i've been trying to make for quite some time now. perhaps I didn't put it into as good of a set of words as you, and i'm about to take off for a month and don't have time to elaborate. Sure, the big wigs have some guilt, but so does the whole hippie/babyboomer generation along with this new generation and their ultimate sense of entitlement that accompanies them. seekliberation Imagine today's youth going counterculture. With Starbucks, Spring Break and $400 cell phones. Amazing. The hippies went into business, became the ultimate in consumers, raised a bunch of spoiled, unruly brats that got us to where the world is now. Yup, social engineer always works, doesn't it?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Greetings from Occupied Wall Street
On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 7:24 PM, seekliberation seekliberat...@yahoo.comwrote: your point below is what i've been trying to make for quite some time now. perhaps I didn't put it into as good of a set of words as you, and i'm about to take off for a month and don't have time to elaborate. Sure, the big wigs have some guilt, but so does the whole hippie/babyboomer generation along with this new generation and their ultimate sense of entitlement that accompanies them. seekliberation Imagine today's youth going counterculture. With Starbucks, Spring Break and $400 cell phones. Amazing. The hippies went into business, became the ultimate in consumers, raised a bunch of spoiled, unruly brats that got us to where the world is now. Yup, social engineer always works, doesn't it? If there's any doubt about where the country is and why, remember the postings of Rudra Joe. Remember the many here coaching him to declare bankruptcy to get out from under the loans he took out to go to MIU. Loans which no one seemed to bother to research, cannot be absolved by declaring bankruptcy.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Greetings from Occupied Wall Street
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seekliberation seekliberation@... wrote: true, policy at the top level can help make adjustments at lower levels. But in relation to the original discussion, I believe it's going to take a lot more than just electing a charismatic leader who makes some policy change to fix our nations economy as a whole. I don't think anyone is suggesting that's all it would take, actually. My opinion, FWIW, is that we are a nation of consumption without contribution to match it, takers rather than givers, or people with a sense of entitlement with a warped view of what we're really entitled to. I think that as long as we function in that mindset, we will have problems no matter what policies are in place. I could expand on what i'm talking about in terms of consumption vs. contribution, but I assume you get the point. Yes, but I think it's *WAY* too simplistic. Not that there isn't some truth to it, but it's nowhere near as broadly true as you'd like to make it. I don't necessarily like Obama, but I dislike the heat he got for admiring Europe so much, because a lot of Europe is a good economic model. But what his primary mistake was that he assumed Europe is doing better because of policy rather than giving credit to their citizens. Most of their countries citizens do not consume or waste nearly as much as Americans do. I don't believe they expect quite as much either. In what sense? Expect quite as much of what, specifically? In some respects they get *more* than we do--free or low- cost health care, mandated vacation time, and so on. From what I have seen, they don't have the same laziness as we do either. I don't mean to say they are raging workaholics. What I am saying is that their proportion of work and expectations for benefits are a lot more balanced than here in America. I really think you have to get more specific here. Americans are notorious for being workaholics. Where do you see this laziness? Until Americans can achieve more balance like that, I don't know that any policy at a higher level is going to guarantee a better outcome. And yet the right in this country labels the European balance as socialism. My opinion is that Americans are very bi-polar, either greedy or lazy. I haven't met very many in-betweens, though they are out there. Again, way too simplistic. This is a really big country, and you just can't generalize that broadly. I think that is the fundamental change that needs to take place. That, we agree on. Have a good October.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Greetings from Occupied Wall Street
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seekliberation seekliberation@... wrote: snip I'm in agreement with you that there is some corruption out there. The whole housing market boom of the 90's was a big crock of shit. Selling homes to people who can't read between the lines. The only difference between you and me is that I feel it is a 2-way street to avoid this calamity, whereas you think it is a simple matter of bringing down the giant. My opinion is people need to be smarter than that, and at the same time big business Wall St. shouldn't take advantage of people that easily. Just one more comment... So much of what went on with the housing crisis went on *completely out of sight*. Very few knew it was happening--including many in the mortgage business and financial experts--until it all came crashing down. Even the smartest people got taken unaware. Most Americans still don't understand what happened. I have really only a vague sense of the specifics. It's just terribly arcane and complicated. You simply can't expect ordinary people living their lives to have enough knowledge and insight into it to avoid being swept up in it.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Greetings from Occupied Wall Street
On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 8:22 PM, authfriend jst...@panix.com wrote: Just one more comment... So much of what went on with the housing crisis went on *completely out of sight*. Very few knew it was happening--including many in the mortgage business and financial experts--until it all came crashing down. Even the smartest people got taken unaware. Most Americans still don't understand what happened. I have really only a vague sense of the specifics. It's just terribly arcane and complicated. You simply can't expect ordinary people living their lives to have enough knowledge and insight into it to avoid being swept up in it. I got out of all my housebuilding stocks / developer stocks years early but still prospered.It was 2002, I was driving around Overland Park, KS, a town that pretty much sprang up from next to nothing overnight. I'd watched the home equity boom go on for years, watched people who shouldn't have been allowed to buy the most amazing houses, got solicited by broker after broker about how I could buy some property and flip it in a matter of months. I felt very sick to my stomach. This all seemed so wrong. I should have made a connection between housing, tulips and Rockefeller getting out of stocks when his shoe shine boy started telling him about the stocks he was buying. What I felt very strongly was that it was wrong. Yes, I've heard all the bitching and moaning about how people are being deprived of their houses, how they were lead down a garden path to slaughter, but fact was, it was greed on all sides. It was Rudra Joe running up a $100,000 student loan to go to MIU then bitching that tuition was too much so he shouldn't have to pay off the loan, but the people who bought those houses weren't fools. They knew how to count. It all came crashing down. It was, as in most booms and busts, greed, pure and simple. But I don't blame the bankers. I don't blame the rating agencies, I don't blame the mortgage repackagers as much as I blame the buyers, who bitch that somehow they deserve to live in a 5,000 square foot house. Anybody go back to the old neighborhood? My old neighborhoods no longer exist. But I look at houses build at about the same time in other parts of the country. Heck. A family of 5 or 6 lived in a bit more space than the hotel suite I occupy tonight and considered it pretty much a palace. Entitled, indeed. Don't forget that the housing boom was another Democratic social engineering virus. Force banks, SLs and others to offer mortgages to those who otherwise couldn't afford to buy a house. Not because they weren't deserving, but because this is the US and not Norway. 20% of the population of the US will always occupy the lower 20% of the economic pie. That's why they're referred to as 20% of the population. Anyone remember what guys used to say in those WWII movies, that that pilot bought the farm? Home ownership was not written into the Bill of Rights.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Greetings from Occupied Wall Street
http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/occupy%20WS/IMG_8316.html Speaking of glass the man with the cardboard sign in the above photo: The Glass Steagall Act would have prevented too big to fail --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@... wrote: So easy. Just return to the Neolithic and shout out how authentic you are. You oughta join the protests instead of wasting time doing nothing here. Where's your social conscience ... running down your leg? Yes indeedy, I'm paid by the Coka Bros to make fools speak their minds. Don't worry though ... social philosophy was consolidated by Mao and the new slogan is simple ... Nuke 'em all and use the glass slags for roller rings. Allah will know his own. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: So you think that crony capitalism is a walloping success? Or are the Koch brothers paying you to post here? Why don't you give us your solution (if you have any)? On 09/30/2011 03:58 PM, emptybill wrote: Yep just what we need ... show trials. The Bavarian communists tried the criminal industialists and then shot them. Then the counter-revolution took over with a revenge. Stalin and Mao were more successful. They murdered millions. Too bad for the losers. You gotta rid the world of losers. Communism failed and then died. Maharishi failed and then died. No heaven on Earth prevailed at any time anywhere except in the mythic imaginations of over-indulged suburban kids of the 1960's+ Why would a bunch of middle-class blotted-lackey protesters do anything when only in 'smerica would they be safe enough to holler their worn out slogans? Don't be so smug you fools - you're being stalked by your final end and in ain't no pari-nirvana. BarryII and Nab-yur-lost ... maybe you two are next for the yamaduta-s. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitunoozguru@ wrote: On 09/30/2011 08:50 AM, richardwillytexwilliams wrote: nablusoss1008: Occupy Wall Street So. I wonder how is occupying Wall Street is going to make the U.S. economy improve? Go figure. By bringing attention to the criminals who have crippled the US economy and the global economy as well. These goons need to be arrested, tried and locked away in prison. As long as they reign you will not see an improved economy, just mass theft by them. https://occupywallst.org/users/OccupyWallSt/ OccupyWallSt.org stands in solidarity without brothers and sisters in Boston who are marching on Bank of America: www.TakeBackBoston.org http://www.takebackboston.org/ 2 Comments https://occupywallst.org/article/take-back-boston/#comments Radiohead at 4PMhttps://occupywallst.org/article/radiohead-4pm/ Posted Sept. 30, 2011, 12:13 p.m. EST by anonymous Radiohead will play a surprise show for #occupywallstreet today at four in the afternoon. I see no reason why this will not spread like fire in dry grass in the USA as in so many other countries. People have seen that capitalism has failed and serves a few only. How can you watch your brothers die unnecessary of hunger in a world of plenty and still call yourseves men ? - Maitreya Now that communism is gone the next to go is capitalism - Maharishi
[FairfieldLife] Re: Greetings from Occupied Wall Street
I watched the protest on the news to include interviews with the protesters. They had little or nothing intelligent to suggest, and it was quite embarrasing to watch. My POV regarding the economy is that we're all responsible. Yes, there are some greedy people at the top who have contributed to the majority of the problem. But to me, it's the 'american' way of living off of credit and buying things we don't have the money for (especially large mortgages that people should've never purchased in the first place). In the late 90's early 2000's the average household had 10k in credit card debt. I don't know what it is now. It is the mindset of Americans to buy things they can't afford, and those Americans are who elect congress. So what do you think congress will consist of? People who also can't pay for what they buy. Remember Maharishi's analogy Government is an innocent reflection of the collective consciousness of the people? The reason we have a government that can't balance a budget is because Americans can't balance their own budgets. The reason male politicians cheat on their wives is because male Americans cheat on their wives. The reason we had 3 presidents in a row who used illegal drugs is because Americans use drugs. The reason there is corruption in congress is because there is corruption in society. I know employees who have stolen from their employers, and there are common people in jail for theft, shoplifting, and basicallytaking without giving. The only difference big business/government doing unethical things to make more $$ is that they're more clever. But the bottom line is that our society has too large of a percentage of people who want buying power but don't want to give anything for it. Of course there are exceptions, but as the decades have gone by, IMHO - Americans in general are willing to do less and less for what they expect to have. There is some weird sense of entitlement in our generation that thinks I get what I need and I get what I want, because that's just the way it is. Our society is no different than the stuck up son or daughter of the richest couple in a neighborhood or city who thinks everything is going to be alright because mommy and daddy will always take care of us. What little johnny and janey don't realize is that mommy and daddy bought their car, mansion, and other amenities with money they didn't have, and the parents labor isn't really worth that much money. Another analogy from MMY is that problems are solved on the level of the individual (in relation to politics). Therefore, my solution is to improvise according to the current economic state. If i'm being taxed heavier, then I work a couple extra hours a week, or I spend a little less (or both). As a result, I don't declare bankruptcy, I don't max out credit cards, I don't default on my mortgage, and most of all, I don't have to get other people to carry my weight in life for me. If we had more 'individuals' who think and act that way instead of protesting in order to get government and other bigwigs to come up with some magic plan that fixes everything, a large majority of our problem would be solved. seekliberation --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@... wrote: Well, seek, what kind of solutions do you have? Or do you just favor the status quo (also known as the same ol' same ol' )? I'm sure at the beginning of the decade, retiring bankers looked at the new crop of bright-eyed and bushy-tailed MBAs entering the offices and ran home, sold their stock and bought gold. :-D On 09/30/2011 04:22 PM, seekliberation wrote: I'm sure that the protest solved major economic problems, and that if the people protesting were in charge of business and major economic policies, the whole economic mess we have would have never occurred. seekliberation --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008no_reply@ wrote: Welcome loginhttps://occupywallst.org/login/ | signup https://occupywallst.org/signup/[Raised Fist] OccupyWallStreet https://occupywallst.org/ The resistance continues at Liberty Square and Nationwidehttp://occupytogether.org/ ! * Newshttps://occupywallst.org/ * LiveStreamhttp://www.livestream.com/globalrevolution * Forumhttps://occupywallst.org/forum/ * Chathttps://occupywallst.org/chat/ * User Maphttps://occupywallst.org/attendees/ * NYCGAhttp://nycga.cc/ * Abouthttps://occupywallst.org/about/ * Donatehttp://nycga.cc/?page_id=377 *http://www.facebook.com/OccupyWallSt https://twitter.com/#!/OccupyWallSt http://www.reddit.com/r/occupywallstreet/ Greetings from Occupied Wall Street, https://occupywallst.org/article/greetings-occupied-wall-street/ Posted Sept. 30, 2011, 5:06 a.m. EST by OccupyWallSt https://occupywallst.org/users/OccupyWallSt/ Occupy Wall Street has recently come
[FairfieldLife] Re: Greetings from Occupied Wall Street
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@... wrote: Well, seek, what kind of solutions do you have? Or do you just favor the status quo (also known as the same ol' same ol' )? I'm sure at the beginning of the decade, retiring bankers looked at the new crop of bright-eyed and bushy-tailed MBAs entering the offices and ran home, sold their stock and bought gold. :-D The new MBAs will fit right in. Once, when I was working as a programmer for Pepsico, our team got transferred to a new office. Only trouble was they were one desk short, so until they ordered a new one, I had to stay and work in the old office, which was immediately filled by a team of young MBAs from Arthur Anderson. I had heard of AA's schtick before -- send your brightest, most experienced prog- rammers and systems analysts to the sales pitch, thus luring the client into thinking that's who would really be working for him, and then staff the resulting gig with MBAs fresh out of school. Bait and switch. Anyway, I sat in a room full of a dozen of them for two weeks, and got to watch their approach to...uh... work. My estimate is that the whole dozen of them put in at most 6 hours of work a week, combined. The rest of the time was literally spent on the telephone, or doing their nails, or playing computer games, or just surfing the Net. When Friday morning rolled around and they realized they hadn't done shit to show their managers, they scrambled and got all heads-down for a couple of hours, just enough to make it look as if they had been working. Two weeks of this. My takeaway from the whole exper- ience is that the one thing they don't teach students in MBA programs is that they'll have to actually do some *work* for the people who are paying them. So as I say, they'll fit right in on Wall Street. :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Greetings from Occupied Wall Street
I watched the protest on TV, and it was quite embarrasing. No intelligent discussion from any of the protesters. My POV towards the current economic state is that we're all responsible, collectively. It's the American way of life to buy things whether you have the money or not. In the late 90's/early 200's, the average family household had $10,000 in credit card debt. Remember MMY's analogy Government is an innocent reflection of the collective consciousness of the people. So if we wonder why we have a government that can't balance a budget, it's because we have a society of people who can't balance their budget. We just had 3 presidents in a row who used illegal drugs. How did that happen? Because we have a society of people who use illegal drugs. Why do male politicians cheat on their spouses? Because American males cheat on their spouses. Congress simply does what we do. The only difference is that they're in a position where their actions can cause more destruction. We can't expect congress to have any higher ethical code than any of our common citizens. If we expect it, then we're pretty stupid. As for me, my contribution to the economy is that if i'm taxed higher, then I either work more, or spend less. As a result, I don't go in debt, I don't declare bankruptcy, I don't default on my mortgage, and most of all, I don't take from others unless i'm giving. IMHO, over the past few decades there's been a decrease in the percentage of people in our society who think that way. Our society has become symbolic of the rich kids in the neighborhood who think everything in life will be alright because mommy and daddy are so rich. But the kids don't realize that mommy and daddy got their mansion, nice cars, and other luxaries with credit rather than actual money. Now the kids just realized that they should've been preparing for turning 18 instead of playing video games all thse years. That's our situation here in America now. Government is the mommy and daddy who coddled us saying don't worry baby, we'll take care of you, and we're the idiots who sat around enjoying all those benefits without preparing for the reality that we will turn 18 some day, and mommy and daddy won't be around to take care of us anymore. Remember MMY's other analogyproblems are solved on the level of the individual. So, IMHO, we don't need a new policy or a new bill. We need a transformation in our society at the individual level. People need to change their values and take a realistic look at how much effort it's going to take to provide for themselves and be willing to adapt and adjust. I know many people jobless right now. Funny thing is, there are tons of jobs out there. But most of my friends and family refuse to work for $8-9 and hour. Why? I guess they think they're above it, just like the rich kids analogy previously. seekliberation --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@... wrote: Well, seek, what kind of solutions do you have? Or do you just favor the status quo (also known as the same ol' same ol' )? I'm sure at the beginning of the decade, retiring bankers looked at the new crop of bright-eyed and bushy-tailed MBAs entering the offices and ran home, sold their stock and bought gold. :-D On 09/30/2011 04:22 PM, seekliberation wrote: I'm sure that the protest solved major economic problems, and that if the people protesting were in charge of business and major economic policies, the whole economic mess we have would have never occurred. seekliberation --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008no_reply@ wrote: Welcome loginhttps://occupywallst.org/login/ | signup https://occupywallst.org/signup/[Raised Fist] OccupyWallStreet https://occupywallst.org/ The resistance continues at Liberty Square and Nationwidehttp://occupytogether.org/ ! * Newshttps://occupywallst.org/ * LiveStreamhttp://www.livestream.com/globalrevolution * Forumhttps://occupywallst.org/forum/ * Chathttps://occupywallst.org/chat/ * User Maphttps://occupywallst.org/attendees/ * NYCGAhttp://nycga.cc/ * Abouthttps://occupywallst.org/about/ * Donatehttp://nycga.cc/?page_id=377 *http://www.facebook.com/OccupyWallSt https://twitter.com/#!/OccupyWallSt http://www.reddit.com/r/occupywallstreet/ Greetings from Occupied Wall Street, https://occupywallst.org/article/greetings-occupied-wall-street/ Posted Sept. 30, 2011, 5:06 a.m. EST by OccupyWallSt https://occupywallst.org/users/OccupyWallSt/ Occupy Wall Street has recently come into the media spotlight, not because of our political message, but because certain high-ranking members of the NYPD punched, threw, and stepped on peaceful marchers. Arrestees were handcuffed so tight their hands turned blue. Many of these people have yet to regain feeling in their extremities. A senior
[FairfieldLife] Re: Greetings from Occupied Wall Street
On what charges? Banking? Bhairitu: Fraudulently selling bad loans for one. Keep up! So, you're thinking that we're going to get out of paying our national debt by holding a protest on Wall Street, because we were sold bad loans?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Greetings from Occupied Wall Street
Excellent response. I don't have any quick solutions, either, other than pursuing my lifestyle. I haven't bought anything on credit since 1997. Something about Santa Fe and the New Mexico mindset got me thinkin' that if I can't afford to pay cash for it, I can't afford it, and I've lived that way ever since. True, I don't own a house -- mainly because I've never found a place I wanted to buy one -- if I did I assume I would have to get a mortgage. But not having one has given me a kind of freedom that a lot of people don't have. I can travel wherever I want, and live there for a while, just to see what that's like. I don't see that my choice of lifestyle has suffered overmuch from not having a place to call mine that's really some bank's. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seekliberation seekliberation@... wrote: I watched the protest on TV, and it was quite embarrasing. No intelligent discussion from any of the protesters. My POV towards the current economic state is that we're all responsible, collectively. It's the American way of life to buy things whether you have the money or not. In the late 90's/early 200's, the average family household had $10,000 in credit card debt. Remember MMY's analogy Government is an innocent reflection of the collective consciousness of the people. So if we wonder why we have a government that can't balance a budget, it's because we have a society of people who can't balance their budget. We just had 3 presidents in a row who used illegal drugs. How did that happen? Because we have a society of people who use illegal drugs. Why do male politicians cheat on their spouses? Because American males cheat on their spouses. Congress simply does what we do. The only difference is that they're in a position where their actions can cause more destruction. We can't expect congress to have any higher ethical code than any of our common citizens. If we expect it, then we're pretty stupid. As for me, my contribution to the economy is that if i'm taxed higher, then I either work more, or spend less. As a result, I don't go in debt, I don't declare bankruptcy, I don't default on my mortgage, and most of all, I don't take from others unless i'm giving. IMHO, over the past few decades there's been a decrease in the percentage of people in our society who think that way. Our society has become symbolic of the rich kids in the neighborhood who think everything in life will be alright because mommy and daddy are so rich. But the kids don't realize that mommy and daddy got their mansion, nice cars, and other luxaries with credit rather than actual money. Now the kids just realized that they should've been preparing for turning 18 instead of playing video games all thse years. That's our situation here in America now. Government is the mommy and daddy who coddled us saying don't worry baby, we'll take care of you, and we're the idiots who sat around enjoying all those benefits without preparing for the reality that we will turn 18 some day, and mommy and daddy won't be around to take care of us anymore. Remember MMY's other analogyproblems are solved on the level of the individual. So, IMHO, we don't need a new policy or a new bill. We need a transformation in our society at the individual level. People need to change their values and take a realistic look at how much effort it's going to take to provide for themselves and be willing to adapt and adjust. I know many people jobless right now. Funny thing is, there are tons of jobs out there. But most of my friends and family refuse to work for $8-9 and hour. Why? I guess they think they're above it, just like the rich kids analogy previously. seekliberation --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: Well, seek, what kind of solutions do you have? Or do you just favor the status quo (also known as the same ol' same ol' )? I'm sure at the beginning of the decade, retiring bankers looked at the new crop of bright-eyed and bushy-tailed MBAs entering the offices and ran home, sold their stock and bought gold. :-D On 09/30/2011 04:22 PM, seekliberation wrote: I'm sure that the protest solved major economic problems, and that if the people protesting were in charge of business and major economic policies, the whole economic mess we have would have never occurred. seekliberation --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008no_reply@ wrote: Welcome loginhttps://occupywallst.org/login/ | signup https://occupywallst.org/signup/[Raised Fist] OccupyWallStreet https://occupywallst.org/ The resistance continues at Liberty Square and Nationwidehttp://occupytogether.org/ ! * Newshttps://occupywallst.org/ * LiveStreamhttp://www.livestream.com/globalrevolution * Forumhttps://occupywallst.org/forum/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Greetings from Occupied Wall Street
Just as a clarification for those unfamiliar with how the world outside the USA does things, I still have credit cards, but I never use them to buy anything on credit. I need them primarily because you can't rent a car on a debit card. Europe primarily runs on debit cards (no transaction fees), so much so that many people never carry cash. But those debit cards are inexorably tied to the balance in their bank accounts. It actually takes some effort to get a bank to issue you a credit card. Some countries (such as Spain) don't even allow their customers to write checks. I find it a refreshing lifestyle, but that is because I already lived that way when I moved here. Because I've always been able to pay cash (or use its counter- part, a debit card) for anything I need, I've not had to resort to buying it (renting it is more like it, with interest) via credit. One facet of this may be that I have not seen a TV commercial since I left France. I am not constantly bombarded by images trying to convince me that I need some product. I honestly don't need all that much. I'm not a clothes hound, and may never need to buy any new clothes again. Other than socks and underwear, that is. :-) I spend my money on rent, utilities, food, and drink. And that's pretty much it. My ten-year-old car never breaks, so I don't need to pay anything for it other than insurance. My health insurance is cheap enough to not be noticeable in the debits column of my personal finances. As some have opined, I'm one of those dastardly media pirates (and also on a lot of lists for screeners of upcoming movies and TV), so I don't even pay for entertainment. My economic overhead is minimal. What the banks do or don't do doesn't really affect me that much. I keep a keen eye on the banks I have my electronic money in, just to see whether they're in danger of going belly-up (none are...they make the Top Ten of reliable banking institutions on the planet), but other than that they don't have all that much affect on my life. While I can feel sorrow for the plight of many in America or other countries who have gone the opposite route, and are in hock up to their ears, I can't quite empathize. Bankers and Wall Street are ripping us off! Duh. Only because you allow them to. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: Excellent response. I don't have any quick solutions, either, other than pursuing my lifestyle. I haven't bought anything on credit since 1997. Something about Santa Fe and the New Mexico mindset got me thinkin' that if I can't afford to pay cash for it, I can't afford it, and I've lived that way ever since. True, I don't own a house -- mainly because I've never found a place I wanted to buy one -- if I did I assume I would have to get a mortgage. But not having one has given me a kind of freedom that a lot of people don't have. I can travel wherever I want, and live there for a while, just to see what that's like. I don't see that my choice of lifestyle has suffered overmuch from not having a place to call mine that's really some bank's. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seekliberation seekliberation@ wrote: I watched the protest on TV, and it was quite embarrasing. No intelligent discussion from any of the protesters. My POV towards the current economic state is that we're all responsible, collectively. It's the American way of life to buy things whether you have the money or not. In the late 90's/early 200's, the average family household had $10,000 in credit card debt. Remember MMY's analogy Government is an innocent reflection of the collective consciousness of the people. So if we wonder why we have a government that can't balance a budget, it's because we have a society of people who can't balance their budget. We just had 3 presidents in a row who used illegal drugs. How did that happen? Because we have a society of people who use illegal drugs. Why do male politicians cheat on their spouses? Because American males cheat on their spouses. Congress simply does what we do. The only difference is that they're in a position where their actions can cause more destruction. We can't expect congress to have any higher ethical code than any of our common citizens. If we expect it, then we're pretty stupid. As for me, my contribution to the economy is that if i'm taxed higher, then I either work more, or spend less. As a result, I don't go in debt, I don't declare bankruptcy, I don't default on my mortgage, and most of all, I don't take from others unless i'm giving. IMHO, over the past few decades there's been a decrease in the percentage of people in our society who think that way. Our society has become symbolic of the rich kids in the neighborhood who think everything in life will be alright because mommy and daddy are so rich. But the kids don't realize that
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Greetings from Occupied Wall Street
snip Bankers and Wall Street are ripping us off! Duh. Only because you allow them to. That is the point exactly and what the protest is trying to bringing attention to, agenda or no. Yes, we are liable as individuals for our fiscal irresponsibility and a few hardy souls are simply making a statement that we want our institutions to be liable as well. From: turquoiseb no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, October 1, 2011 7:59 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Greetings from Occupied Wall Street Just as a clarification for those unfamiliar with how the world outside the USA does things, I still have credit cards, but I never use them to buy anything on credit. I need them primarily because you can't rent a car on a debit card. Europe primarily runs on debit cards (no transaction fees), so much so that many people never carry cash. But those debit cards are inexorably tied to the balance in their bank accounts. It actually takes some effort to get a bank to issue you a credit card. Some countries (such as Spain) don't even allow their customers to write checks. I find it a refreshing lifestyle, but that is because I already lived that way when I moved here. Because I've always been able to pay cash (or use its counter- part, a debit card) for anything I need, I've not had to resort to buying it (renting it is more like it, with interest) via credit. One facet of this may be that I have not seen a TV commercial since I left France. I am not constantly bombarded by images trying to convince me that I need some product. I honestly don't need all that much. I'm not a clothes hound, and may never need to buy any new clothes again. Other than socks and underwear, that is. :-) I spend my money on rent, utilities, food, and drink. And that's pretty much it. My ten-year-old car never breaks, so I don't need to pay anything for it other than insurance. My health insurance is cheap enough to not be noticeable in the debits column of my personal finances. As some have opined, I'm one of those dastardly media pirates (and also on a lot of lists for screeners of upcoming movies and TV), so I don't even pay for entertainment. My economic overhead is minimal. What the banks do or don't do doesn't really affect me that much. I keep a keen eye on the banks I have my electronic money in, just to see whether they're in danger of going belly-up (none are...they make the Top Ten of reliable banking institutions on the planet), but other than that they don't have all that much affect on my life. While I can feel sorrow for the plight of many in America or other countries who have gone the opposite route, and are in hock up to their ears, I can't quite empathize. Bankers and Wall Street are ripping us off! Duh. Only because you allow them to. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: Excellent response. I don't have any quick solutions, either, other than pursuing my lifestyle. I haven't bought anything on credit since 1997. Something about Santa Fe and the New Mexico mindset got me thinkin' that if I can't afford to pay cash for it, I can't afford it, and I've lived that way ever since. True, I don't own a house -- mainly because I've never found a place I wanted to buy one -- if I did I assume I would have to get a mortgage. But not having one has given me a kind of freedom that a lot of people don't have. I can travel wherever I want, and live there for a while, just to see what that's like. I don't see that my choice of lifestyle has suffered overmuch from not having a place to call mine that's really some bank's. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seekliberation seekliberation@ wrote: I watched the protest on TV, and it was quite embarrasing. No intelligent discussion from any of the protesters. My POV towards the current economic state is that we're all responsible, collectively. It's the American way of life to buy things whether you have the money or not. In the late 90's/early 200's, the average family household had $10,000 in credit card debt. Remember MMY's analogy Government is an innocent reflection of the collective consciousness of the people. So if we wonder why we have a government that can't balance a budget, it's because we have a society of people who can't balance their budget. We just had 3 presidents in a row who used illegal drugs. How did that happen? Because we have a society of people who use illegal drugs. Why do male politicians cheat on their spouses? Because American males cheat on their spouses. Congress simply does what we do. The only difference is that they're in a position where their actions can cause more destruction. We can't expect congress to have any higher ethical code than any of our common citizens. If we expect it, then we're pretty stupid. As for me, my
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Greetings from Occupied Wall Street
Since in the US banks will often charge fee for using a debit card I use my credit cards usually paying the balance off monthly. Occasionally I have something which I need to amortize over several months. That is good because the bank makes a little money on interest and their computer will keep your interest rate down. IOW, you can game the banks if you know what you are doing. Turn about is certainly fair play. I don't have a bank account with B of A but they are going to raise the ATM fee to $5. Last night I heard someone report what it is costs them for the ATM use and they will be robbing their customers blind. Basically the most it ever costs them to run the transaction is 21 cents! Probably B of A will soon be history anyway. Of course just as one shoe size will not fit all, your lifestyle may not work for others. And many people do know how to handle debt. A lot of people didn't buy things they couldn't afford, it's just that their job disappeared on them. And there was no real advance notice the job was going away. And another thing is that many people losing their jobs and looking around found many they know in the same boat simple threw their hands up in the air and decided who gives a fuck, let the card play where they lay. You can figure that if the whole country is in trouble financially they WILL eventually rise up and take the establishment that caused all this in the first place down. Sometimes I think the establishment is blind to this attitude. Improbably you say? Well, throughout history I'm sure many citizens of tyrannical governments thought the same but those governments crumbled. What's funny is on FFL we have people who want to keep the status quo. That's because they are afraid of change. But even MMY said change is inevitable. On 10/01/2011 07:59 AM, turquoiseb wrote: Just as a clarification for those unfamiliar with how the world outside the USA does things, I still have credit cards, but I never use them to buy anything on credit. I need them primarily because you can't rent a car on a debit card. Europe primarily runs on debit cards (no transaction fees), so much so that many people never carry cash. But those debit cards are inexorably tied to the balance in their bank accounts. It actually takes some effort to get a bank to issue you a credit card. Some countries (such as Spain) don't even allow their customers to write checks. I find it a refreshing lifestyle, but that is because I already lived that way when I moved here. Because I've always been able to pay cash (or use its counter- part, a debit card) for anything I need, I've not had to resort to buying it (renting it is more like it, with interest) via credit. One facet of this may be that I have not seen a TV commercial since I left France. I am not constantly bombarded by images trying to convince me that I need some product. I honestly don't need all that much. I'm not a clothes hound, and may never need to buy any new clothes again. Other than socks and underwear, that is. :-) I spend my money on rent, utilities, food, and drink. And that's pretty much it. My ten-year-old car never breaks, so I don't need to pay anything for it other than insurance. My health insurance is cheap enough to not be noticeable in the debits column of my personal finances. As some have opined, I'm one of those dastardly media pirates (and also on a lot of lists for screeners of upcoming movies and TV), so I don't even pay for entertainment. My economic overhead is minimal. What the banks do or don't do doesn't really affect me that much. I keep a keen eye on the banks I have my electronic money in, just to see whether they're in danger of going belly-up (none are...they make the Top Ten of reliable banking institutions on the planet), but other than that they don't have all that much affect on my life. While I can feel sorrow for the plight of many in America or other countries who have gone the opposite route, and are in hock up to their ears, I can't quite empathize. Bankers and Wall Street are ripping us off! Duh. Only because you allow them to. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoisebno_reply@... wrote: Excellent response. I don't have any quick solutions, either, other than pursuing my lifestyle. I haven't bought anything on credit since 1997. Something about Santa Fe and the New Mexico mindset got me thinkin' that if I can't afford to pay cash for it, I can't afford it, and I've lived that way ever since. True, I don't own a house -- mainly because I've never found a place I wanted to buy one -- if I did I assume I would have to get a mortgage. But not having one has given me a kind of freedom that a lot of people don't have. I can travel wherever I want, and live there for a while, just to see what that's like. I don't see that my choice of lifestyle has suffered overmuch from not having a place to call mine
[FairfieldLife] Re: Greetings from Occupied Wall Street
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@... wrote: Since in the US banks will often charge fee for using a debit card I use my credit cards usually paying the balance off monthly. Occasionally I have something which I need to amortize over several months. That is good because the bank makes a little money on interest and their computer will keep your interest rate down. IOW, you can game the banks if you know what you are doing. Turn about is certainly fair play. I don't have a bank account with B of A but they are going to raise the ATM fee to $5. For the record, this is a *monthly* fee, not for using an ATM but for using the debit card for purchases. ATM fees, if any, for cash withdrawals are on top of the monthly fee for purchases with a debit card. snip A lot of people didn't buy things they couldn't afford, it's just that their job disappeared on them. And there was no real advance notice the job was going away. And many others found that their mortgage payments were higher than they expected, even if they kept their jobs. Many of these were lowish-income, low-information people who were sold mortgage loans by unscrupulous mortgage- loan sharks who had to know the payments were or would become unaffordable but assured the borrowers they'd have no problem paying them. So in order to keep their homes and still keep food on the table, clothe their children, and put gas in the car, they had to start using their credit card for necessities. Still others, more comfortable financially, assumed that their homes would rise rapidly in value, because the housing bubble was inflating home prices so drastically. So they figured they could easily afford home equity loans to pay for luxuries. But then the bubble burst, and their homes became worth less than their mortgages. (It should be noted that if everyone behaved as Barry says he does, there probably wouldn't be such a thing as credit cards, because banks wouldn't make any money from them.)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Greetings from Occupied Wall Street
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@... wrote: Since in the US banks will often charge fee for using a debit card I use my credit cards usually paying the balance off monthly. Just to provide some balance, in the EU no country I know of would allow a bank to charge for the use of its debit cards. In the Netherlands, in fact, you cannot use standard Visa cards to pay for many things because they (as a corporation) insist on making the vendor pay for every transaction. Here the vendors simply refuse, and don't accept the cards. No one seems to mind the inconvenience, except tourists. It's YOUR money. And you're allowing them to charge you for using it? Duh.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Greetings from Occupied Wall Street
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: Since in the US banks will often charge fee for using a debit card I use my credit cards usually paying the balance off monthly. Just to provide some balance, in the EU no country I know of would allow a bank to charge for the use of its debit cards. In the Netherlands, in fact, you cannot use standard Visa cards to pay for many things because they (as a corporation) insist on making the vendor pay for every transaction. Here the vendors simply refuse, and don't accept the cards. No one seems to mind the inconvenience, except tourists. It's YOUR money. And you're allowing them to charge you for using it? Duh. Remains to be seen. The monthly debit-card fee some banks are charging is new, and it looks like there'll be considerable customer resistance. Actually, the reason BoA and some other banks are now charging a monthly fee for using debit cards for purchases is that a new federal regulation went into effect cutting the amount banks can charge vendors by almost half--from an average of 44 cents a transaction to a maximum of 24 cents per. Although the effect on individual transactions is negligible, this will amount to a loss of $6.6 *billion* a year in revenue for the banks. (This is in addition to a loss of $5.6 billion due to new restrictions on overdraft fees.) It isn't, of course, a matter of allowing the bank to charge whatever it wants for its services. If you want to use the service, you pay the charge. You can complain to your congresscritter, and apparently there's been enough discontent over bank fees to move the federal government to impose some new rules. But with the loss in revenue resulting from the new rules, the banks just figure out how to impose new charges to make up for it. It's a little like the battle to control malware: as soon as the antimalware folks manage to step on one approach, the malware- makers come up with a new one.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Greetings from Occupied Wall Street
The corporate media will try to make the protesters look stupid. They probably won't bother to interview Chris Hedges and Medea Benjamin both who were at the protest in NYC last weekend. There are a lot of kids there and certainly rough around the edges and it will take some time for them to improve their protests. They're doing this ad hoc. And back in the day we weren't all that great at organizing anti-war protests either. But the energy is there and properly targeted. Corporations spend tons of money on marketing to fool all but the clearest minded or wary to buy their shit. You mean that we had three presidents in a row who used drugs that shouldn't have been illegal. If you want a saint to run your government, good luck. Your friends and relatives who don't want to work for $8-9 an hour probably can't make ends meet on that or keep up with the rising cost of food created by food speculators (a practice thatn needs to be highly regulated and taxed). Many may know of an opportunity to return to work at a wage nearer to what they had so don't want to be trapped if the opportunity arises. And then many just feel like flipping off the world and that too is a justifiable expression given to the times. We are the 99 percent. We are getting kicked out of our homes. We are forced to choose between groceries and rent. We are denied quality medical care. We are suffering from environmental pollution. We are working long hours for little pay and no rights, if we're working at all. We are getting nothing while the other 1 percent is getting everything. We are the 99 percent. Conditions like this lead to the Bolshevik revolution and the French revolution. So. Hey kids, what time is it? It's revolution time It's revolution time Let's take the banksters down and spread the wealth around. Enjoy! On 10/01/2011 06:52 AM, seekliberation wrote: I watched the protest on TV, and it was quite embarrasing. No intelligent discussion from any of the protesters. My POV towards the current economic state is that we're all responsible, collectively. It's the American way of life to buy things whether you have the money or not. In the late 90's/early 200's, the average family household had $10,000 in credit card debt. Remember MMY's analogy Government is an innocent reflection of the collective consciousness of the people. So if we wonder why we have a government that can't balance a budget, it's because we have a society of people who can't balance their budget. We just had 3 presidents in a row who used illegal drugs. How did that happen? Because we have a society of people who use illegal drugs. Why do male politicians cheat on their spouses? Because American males cheat on their spouses. Congress simply does what we do. The only difference is that they're in a position where their actions can cause more destruction. We can't expect congress to have any higher ethical code than any of our common citizens. If we expect it, then we're pretty stupid. As for me, my contribution to the economy is that if i'm taxed higher, then I either work more, or spend less. As a result, I don't go in debt, I don't declare bankruptcy, I don't default on my mortgage, and most of all, I don't take from others unless i'm giving. IMHO, over the past few decades there's been a decrease in the percentage of people in our society who think that way. Our society has become symbolic of the rich kids in the neighborhood who think everything in life will be alright because mommy and daddy are so rich. But the kids don't realize that mommy and daddy got their mansion, nice cars, and other luxaries with credit rather than actual money. Now the kids just realized that they should've been preparing for turning 18 instead of playing video games all thse years. That's our situation here in America now. Government is the mommy and daddy who coddled us saying don't worry baby, we'll take care of you, and we're the idiots who sat around enjoying all those benefits without preparing for the reality that we will turn 18 some day, and mommy and daddy won't be around to take care of us anymore. Remember MMY's other analogyproblems are solved on the level of the individual. So, IMHO, we don't need a new policy or a new bill. We need a transformation in our society at the individual level. People need to change their values and take a realistic look at how much effort it's going to take to provide for themselves and be willing to adapt and adjust. I know many people jobless right now. Funny thing is, there are tons of jobs out there. But most of my friends and family refuse to work for $8-9 and hour. Why? I guess they think they're above it, just like the rich kids analogy previously. seekliberation --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitunoozguru@... wrote: Well, seek, what kind of solutions do you have?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Greetings from Occupied Wall Street
Go jump out your door and scream Revolution! Go to the banks and tell them your confiscating everything for the people. You'll be praised as a male Patty Hearst. Just say I'm Patrick Hearst and I'm here to correct the injustices you've created. Or are you just a pussy posing as a man? Better yet, go to the bankers homes and steal everything you can see and then tell them how restrained you are because you're not shooting them. Distribute it all to poor people and then call yourself RobbingUHood. They'll make you a rap hero. Conditions like this lead to the Bolshevik revolution and the French revolution. So. Hey kids, what time is it? It's revolution time It's revolution time Let's take the banksters down and spread the wealth around. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@... wrote: The corporate media will try to make the protesters look stupid. They probably won't bother to interview Chris Hedges and Medea Benjamin both who were at the protest in NYC last weekend. There are a lot of kids there and certainly rough around the edges and it will take some time for them to improve their protests. They're doing this ad hoc. And back in the day we weren't all that great at organizing anti-war protests either. But the energy is there and properly targeted. Corporations spend tons of money on marketing to fool all but the clearest minded or wary to buy their shit. You mean that we had three presidents in a row who used drugs that shouldn't have been illegal. If you want a saint to run your government, good luck. Your friends and relatives who don't want to work for $8-9 an hour probably can't make ends meet on that or keep up with the rising cost of food created by food speculators (a practice thatn needs to be highly regulated and taxed). Many may know of an opportunity to return to work at a wage nearer to what they had so don't want to be trapped if the opportunity arises. And then many just feel like flipping off the world and that too is a justifiable expression given to the times. We are the 99 percent. We are getting kicked out of our homes. We are forced to choose between groceries and rent. We are denied quality medical care. We are suffering from environmental pollution. We are working long hours for little pay and no rights, if we're working at all. We are getting nothing while the other 1 percent is getting everything. We are the 99 percent. Conditions like this lead to the Bolshevik revolution and the French revolution. So. Hey kids, what time is it? It's revolution time It's revolution time Let's take the banksters down and spread the wealth around. Enjoy!
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Greetings from Occupied Wall Street
I'm back to cash, got out of the stock market because I don't have enough to gamble with, and joined a credit union where I am now earning interest on my checking account. Who needs those cards anyhoo From: authfriend jst...@panix.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, October 1, 2011 11:51 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Greetings from Occupied Wall Street --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: Since in the US banks will often charge fee for using a debit card I use my credit cards usually paying the balance off monthly. Just to provide some balance, in the EU no country I know of would allow a bank to charge for the use of its debit cards. In the Netherlands, in fact, you cannot use standard Visa cards to pay for many things because they (as a corporation) insist on making the vendor pay for every transaction. Here the vendors simply refuse, and don't accept the cards. No one seems to mind the inconvenience, except tourists. It's YOUR money. And you're allowing them to charge you for using it? Duh. Remains to be seen. The monthly debit-card fee some banks are charging is new, and it looks like there'll be considerable customer resistance. Actually, the reason BoA and some other banks are now charging a monthly fee for using debit cards for purchases is that a new federal regulation went into effect cutting the amount banks can charge vendors by almost half--from an average of 44 cents a transaction to a maximum of 24 cents per. Although the effect on individual transactions is negligible, this will amount to a loss of $6.6 *billion* a year in revenue for the banks. (This is in addition to a loss of $5.6 billion due to new restrictions on overdraft fees.) It isn't, of course, a matter of allowing the bank to charge whatever it wants for its services. If you want to use the service, you pay the charge. You can complain to your congresscritter, and apparently there's been enough discontent over bank fees to move the federal government to impose some new rules. But with the loss in revenue resulting from the new rules, the banks just figure out how to impose new charges to make up for it. It's a little like the battle to control malware: as soon as the antimalware folks manage to step on one approach, the malware- makers come up with a new one.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Greetings from Occupied Wall Street
The corporate media will try to make the protesters look stupid. They didn't have to try at all. Corporations spend tons of money on marketing to fool all but the clearest minded or wary to buy their shit. Then who's fault is it? If you're not going to have a clear mind, you'll be a victim in any society, America, Russia, any country in Africa, etc... You mean that we had three presidents in a row who used drugs that shouldn't have been illegal. If you want a saint to run your government, good luck. Not necessarily. GWB and BHO both used drugs worse than marijuana. BHO admitted to it, and GWB was known, but I don't think he publicly admitted it. I do think that weed should be legal, but I have reservations about things that can make your heart stopbut that is a debatable issue itself. Regarding wanting a saint to run things, I don't expect that at all. All i'm saying is that we're no better than the people we're complaining about. Your friends and relatives who don't want to work for $8-9 an hour probably can't make ends meet on that or keep up with the rising cost of food created by food speculators (a practice thatn needs to be highly regulated and taxed). Many may know of an opportunity to return to work at a wage nearer to what they had so don't want to be trapped if the opportunity arises. They can't necessarily live as luxurious of a lifestyle with 8-9 an hour, but they can certainly use it to avoid going much further into the hole until something better comes around. My only point is that there are plenty of things people can do in the midst of this crisis, but the general attitude that i've seen is people feel 'too good' for some of these jobs. That also doesn't include people who have been fired repeatedly over the years, or people who have quit perfectly good jobs because they're 'too good' for those jobs. And then many just feel like flipping off the world and that too is a justifiable expression given to the times. yes, flip off the world, that accomplishes a lot. We are the 99 percent. We are getting kicked out of our homes. We are forced to choose between groceries and rent. We are denied quality medical care. We are suffering from environmental pollution. We are working long hours for little pay and no rights, if we're working at all. We are getting nothing while the other 1 percent is getting everything. We are the 99 percent. Keep in mind as you complain about how horrible and difficult your life is, a garbage man or a pizza delivery man in today's world lives a more luxurious life with more entertainment than the King of England or the Emporor of Japan did 100 years ago. Our quality of life here in America is better than any civilization in the history of the world. I'd rather live in a trailer park in today's America than a castle in medeival times, or any time in history for that matter. Overall, if this world and this society is kicking your ass that bad, I feel bad for the hard road ahead of you. With the exception of a few countries in Europe (which I do admire, by the way), you'd have a hard time in just about any country at anytime in history(excluding souls incarnated in royal families). Conditions like this lead to the Bolshevik revolution and the French revolution. So. Hey kids, what time is it? It's revolution time It's revolution time Let's take the banksters down and spread the wealth around. yeah, take down the system and create a new one. Considering how hard it seems for some of these people just to survive in this society, my perception is that these people not only couldn't organize an effective revolution, they probably couldn't even build up what they take down. If a 40+ hr work week kicks their ass, starting from scratch will make them suicidal. I, personally, could care less if the system falls apart or stays together. I will do what ever I have to. In a cynical way, I'd like to see the whole system collapse. Then, all the thugs and criminals will run rampant with no established government to keep them in check. It will be 'anything goes', anarchy. That would be so entertaining, I can't wait!!! Everytime a hurricane comes around, there will be noone to help, because the people who took over government already can't handle a full time job, how in the world are they going to react to a severe catastrophe or deal with really intense problems? seekliberation Enjoy! On 10/01/2011 06:52 AM, seekliberation wrote: I watched the protest on TV, and it was quite embarrasing. No intelligent discussion from any of the protesters. My POV towards the current economic state is that we're all responsible, collectively. It's the American way of life to buy things whether you have the money or not. In the late 90's/early 200's, the average family household had $10,000 in credit card debt. Remember MMY's
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Greetings from Occupied Wall Street
The global economy is pretty far gone. The US banks sold a bunch of toxic assets to a lot for foreign banks. A lot of foreign leaders about now would probably secretly want to see the US nuked out of existence. We are the 21st century bogeyman. They could create a bank and put all those toxic assets in it and then write it off. You may indeed see a total collapse but it may not result in a Road Warrior society. Just a simpler more human and down to earth one. Your mindset seems very conservative, much like a hard liner. Remember the Chinese hard liners? I equivocate hard liners with assholes. If the rest of the world were like them we would still be living in caves. Plus you sound very belligerent. Maybe you listen to Rush too much? Perhaps you ought to actually trying seeking liberation rather than bondage. On 10/01/2011 05:47 PM, seekliberation wrote: The corporate media will try to make the protesters look stupid. They didn't have to try at all. Corporations spend tons of money on marketing to fool all but the clearest minded or wary to buy their shit. Then who's fault is it? If you're not going to have a clear mind, you'll be a victim in any society, America, Russia, any country in Africa, etc... You mean that we had three presidents in a row who used drugs that shouldn't have been illegal. If you want a saint to run your government, good luck. Not necessarily. GWB and BHO both used drugs worse than marijuana. BHO admitted to it, and GWB was known, but I don't think he publicly admitted it. I do think that weed should be legal, but I have reservations about things that can make your heart stopbut that is a debatable issue itself. Regarding wanting a saint to run things, I don't expect that at all. All i'm saying is that we're no better than the people we're complaining about. Your friends and relatives who don't want to work for $8-9 an hour probably can't make ends meet on that or keep up with the rising cost of food created by food speculators (a practice thatn needs to be highly regulated and taxed). Many may know of an opportunity to return to work at a wage nearer to what they had so don't want to be trapped if the opportunity arises. They can't necessarily live as luxurious of a lifestyle with 8-9 an hour, but they can certainly use it to avoid going much further into the hole until something better comes around. My only point is that there are plenty of things people can do in the midst of this crisis, but the general attitude that i've seen is people feel 'too good' for some of these jobs. That also doesn't include people who have been fired repeatedly over the years, or people who have quit perfectly good jobs because they're 'too good' for those jobs. And then many just feel like flipping off the world and that too is a justifiable expression given to the times. yes, flip off the world, that accomplishes a lot. We are the 99 percent. We are getting kicked out of our homes. We are forced to choose between groceries and rent. We are denied quality medical care. We are suffering from environmental pollution. We are working long hours for little pay and no rights, if we're working at all. We are getting nothing while the other 1 percent is getting everything. We are the 99 percent. Keep in mind as you complain about how horrible and difficult your life is, a garbage man or a pizza delivery man in today's world lives a more luxurious life with more entertainment than the King of England or the Emporor of Japan did 100 years ago. Our quality of life here in America is better than any civilization in the history of the world. I'd rather live in a trailer park in today's America than a castle in medeival times, or any time in history for that matter. Overall, if this world and this society is kicking your ass that bad, I feel bad for the hard road ahead of you. With the exception of a few countries in Europe (which I do admire, by the way), you'd have a hard time in just about any country at anytime in history(excluding souls incarnated in royal families). Conditions like this lead to the Bolshevik revolution and the French revolution. So. Hey kids, what time is it? It's revolution time It's revolution time Let's take the banksters down and spread the wealth around. yeah, take down the system and create a new one. Considering how hard it seems for some of these people just to survive in this society, my perception is that these people not only couldn't organize an effective revolution, they probably couldn't even build up what they take down. If a 40+ hr work week kicks their ass, starting from scratch will make them suicidal. I, personally, could care less if the system falls apart or stays together. I will do what ever I have to. In a cynical way, I'd like to see the whole system collapse. Then, all the thugs and criminals will run rampant with
[FairfieldLife] Re: Greetings from Occupied Wall Street
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@... wrote: The global economy is pretty far gone. The US banks sold a bunch of toxic assets to a lot for foreign banks. A lot of foreign leaders about now would probably secretly want to see the US nuked out of existence. We are the 21st century bogeyman. the us banks don't really have much of value to offer to the rest of the world. We went off the gold standard a long time ago, and there is nothing 'real' that backs the US dollar anymore. We not only screwed ourselves in order to maintain a lifestyle that is unsustainable, but now we're screwing the rest of the world too. But hey, we're Americans, we get what we want and need, because that's how life automatically works! right? They could create a bank and put all those toxic assets in it and then write it off. You may indeed see a total collapse but it may not result in a Road Warrior society. Just a simpler more human and down to earth one. I'm not sure what city you live in, but look at what happens in towns like New Orleans or Los Angeles when the system breaks down. The midwest will be a rather safe place. But most cities i've lived in will get really ugly before they get better (if there is an actual 'total' collapse). In fact, the midwest is the only place in America i'd feel safe (for the most part). You can exclude certain parts of Texas and other remote areas where there are 'meth' labs. Your mindset seems very conservative, much like a hard liner. Remember the Chinese hard liners? I equivocate hard liners with assholes. If the rest of the world were like them we would still be living in caves. I'm not a hardliner in terms of trying to force others to live according to my ideals. But I am a hardliner in terms of doing whatever I have to in order to take care of and provide for myself without screwing other people over. If that makes me an asshole, then i'm an asshole. I don't ask my parents for money, I don't max out credit cards, I don't declare bankruptcy and force other taxpayers to bail me out, I don't blame others for my problems, and the list goes on of what I won't do. Maybe being an asshole is the secret to not screwing others over. Plus you sound very belligerent. Maybe you listen to Rush too much? Perhaps you ought to actually trying seeking liberation rather than bondage. What are you accusing me of being attached to? I distinctly remember in my last post that it makes no difference to me what direction we go in. I can easily survive with things the way they are. If the system collapses, i'll find a way to get by. So for me, I have no reason to attach to anything, or try to avoid anything. You, on the other hand, seem to have a strong desire to go in a specific direction. That is attachment. Liberation involves letting go and not controlling, being able to get by regardless of external circumstances. Believe me, if there's an easier way, i'd love nothing more than to experience it. I would've been much happier in a country like Denmark. But I wasn't born there, so, in a true sense of what liberation means, I won't dwell on what isn't meant to be. Perhaps my cynacism is percieved as belligerence. I guess being surrounded by matierialists my whole life, I just love watching them be so frustrated and watch the walls come crumbling down in front of them. That's why I love the idea of seeing the system collapse. If you're theory that all the enlightened and intelligent people are going to revolt, take over, and establish a Utopiathen i've got no doubt i'm intelligent and industrious enough to be a prominent member of such a society and i'll be more than happy. I'll also be happy if things stay the way they are. I'll also be happy if I get dropped off in a 3rd world country village in South America. I'll also be happy if many other possibilities come truelife is bliss, remember? seekliberation On 10/01/2011 05:47 PM, seekliberation wrote: The corporate media will try to make the protesters look stupid. They didn't have to try at all. Corporations spend tons of money on marketing to fool all but the clearest minded or wary to buy their shit. Then who's fault is it? If you're not going to have a clear mind, you'll be a victim in any society, America, Russia, any country in Africa, etc... You mean that we had three presidents in a row who used drugs that shouldn't have been illegal. If you want a saint to run your government, good luck. Not necessarily. GWB and BHO both used drugs worse than marijuana. BHO admitted to it, and GWB was known, but I don't think he publicly admitted it. I do think that weed should be legal, but I have reservations about things that can make your heart stopbut that is a debatable issue itself. Regarding wanting a saint to run things, I don't expect that at all. All i'm
[FairfieldLife] Re: Greetings from Occupied Wall Street
nablusoss1008: Occupy Wall Street So. I wonder how is occupying Wall Street is going to make the U.S. economy improve? Go figure.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Greetings from Occupied Wall Street
On 09/30/2011 08:50 AM, richardwillytexwilliams wrote: nablusoss1008: Occupy Wall Street So. I wonder how is occupying Wall Street is going to make the U.S. economy improve? Go figure. By bringing attention to the criminals who have crippled the US economy and the global economy as well. These goons need to be arrested, tried and locked away in prison. As long as they reign you will not see an improved economy, just mass theft by them.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Greetings from Occupied Wall Street
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@... wrote: On 09/30/2011 08:50 AM, richardwillytexwilliams wrote: nablusoss1008: Occupy Wall Street So. I wonder how is occupying Wall Street is going to make the U.S. economy improve? Go figure. By bringing attention to the criminals who have crippled the US economy and the global economy as well. These goons need to be arrested, tried and locked away in prison. As long as they reign you will not see an improved economy, just mass theft by them. Welcome login https://occupywallst.org/login/ | signup https://occupywallst.org/signup/ [Raised Fist] OccupyWallStreet https://occupywallst.org/ The resistance continues at Liberty Square and Nationwide http://occupytogether.org/ ! * News https://occupywallst.org/ * LiveStream http://www.livestream.com/globalrevolution * Forum https://occupywallst.org/forum/ * Chat https://occupywallst.org/chat/ * User Map https://occupywallst.org/attendees/ * NYCGA http://nycga.cc/ * About https://occupywallst.org/about/ * Donate http://nycga.cc/?page_id=377 * http://www.facebook.com/OccupyWallSt https://twitter.com/#!/OccupyWallSt http://www.reddit.com/r/occupywallstreet/ Take Back Boston! https://occupywallst.org/article/take-back-boston/ Posted Sept. 30, 2011, 12:20 p.m. EST by OccupyWallSt https://occupywallst.org/users/OccupyWallSt/ OccupyWallSt.org stands in solidarity without brothers and sisters in Boston who are marching on Bank of America: www.TakeBackBoston.org http://www.takebackboston.org/ 2 Comments https://occupywallst.org/article/take-back-boston/#comments Radiohead at 4PM https://occupywallst.org/article/radiohead-4pm/ Posted Sept. 30, 2011, 12:13 p.m. EST by anonymous Radiohead will play a surprise show for #occupywallstreet today at four in the afternoon.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Greetings from Occupied Wall Street
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: On 09/30/2011 08:50 AM, richardwillytexwilliams wrote: nablusoss1008: Occupy Wall Street So. I wonder how is occupying Wall Street is going to make the U.S. economy improve? Go figure. By bringing attention to the criminals who have crippled the US economy and the global economy as well. These goons need to be arrested, tried and locked away in prison. As long as they reign you will not see an improved economy, just mass theft by them. Welcome login https://occupywallst.org/login/ | signup https://occupywallst.org/signup/ [Raised Fist] OccupyWallStreet https://occupywallst.org/ The resistance continues at Liberty Square and Nationwide http://occupytogether.org/ ! * News https://occupywallst.org/ * LiveStream http://www.livestream.com/globalrevolution * Forum https://occupywallst.org/forum/ * Chat https://occupywallst.org/chat/ * User Map https://occupywallst.org/attendees/ * NYCGA http://nycga.cc/ * About https://occupywallst.org/about/ * Donate http://nycga.cc/?page_id=377 * http://www.facebook.com/OccupyWallSt https://twitter.com/#!/OccupyWallSt http://www.reddit.com/r/occupywallstreet/ Take Back Boston! https://occupywallst.org/article/take-back-boston/ Posted Sept. 30, 2011, 12:20 p.m. EST by OccupyWallSt https://occupywallst.org/users/OccupyWallSt/ OccupyWallSt.org stands in solidarity without brothers and sisters in Boston who are marching on Bank of America: www.TakeBackBoston.org http://www.takebackboston.org/ 2 Comments https://occupywallst.org/article/take-back-boston/#comments Radiohead at 4PM https://occupywallst.org/article/radiohead-4pm/ Posted Sept. 30, 2011, 12:13 p.m. EST by anonymous Radiohead will play a surprise show for #occupywallstreet today at four in the afternoon. I see no reason why this will not spread like fire in dry grass in the USA as in so many other countries. People have seen that capitalism has failed and serves a few only. How can you watch your brothers die unnecessary of hunger in a world of plenty and still call yourseves men ? - Maitreya Now that communism is gone the next to go is capitalism - Maharishi
[FairfieldLife] Re: Greetings from Occupied Wall Street
Occupy Wall Street So. I wonder how is occupying Wall Street is going to make the U.S. economy improve? Bhairitu: These goons need to be arrested, tried and locked away in prison. Without a trial? You must be out of your mind!
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Greetings from Occupied Wall Street
On 09/30/2011 01:12 PM, richardwillytexwilliams wrote: Occupy Wall Street So. I wonder how is occupying Wall Street is going to make the U.S. economy improve? Bhairitu: These goons need to be arrested, tried and locked away in prison. Without a trial? You must be out of your mind! WTF do you think tried means?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Greetings from Occupied Wall Street
Occupy Wall Street So, I wonder how is occupying Wall Street is going to make the U.S. economy improve? Bhairitu: These goons need to be arrested, tried and locked away in prison. Without a trial? You must be out of your mind! Bhairitu: WTF do you think tried means? On what charges? Banking?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Greetings from Occupied Wall Street
On 09/30/2011 02:52 PM, richardwillytexwilliams wrote: Occupy Wall Street So, I wonder how is occupying Wall Street is going to make the U.S. economy improve? Bhairitu: These goons need to be arrested, tried and locked away in prison. Without a trial? You must be out of your mind! Bhairitu: WTF do you think tried means? On what charges? Banking? Fraudulently selling bad loans for one. Keep up!
[FairfieldLife] Re: Greetings from Occupied Wall Street
Yep just what we need ... show trials. The Bavarian communists tried the criminal industialists and then shot them. Then the counter-revolution took over with a revenge. Stalin and Mao were more successful. They murdered millions. Too bad for the losers. You gotta rid the world of losers. Communism failed and then died. Maharishi failed and then died. No heaven on Earth prevailed at any time anywhere except in the mythic imaginations of over-indulged suburban kids of the 1960's+ Why would a bunch of middle-class blotted-lackey protesters do anything when only in 'smerica would they be safe enough to holler their worn out slogans? Don't be so smug you fools - you're being stalked by your final end and in ain't no pari-nirvana. BarryII and Nab-yur-lost ... maybe you two are next for the yamaduta-s. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: On 09/30/2011 08:50 AM, richardwillytexwilliams wrote: nablusoss1008: Occupy Wall Street So. I wonder how is occupying Wall Street is going to make the U.S. economy improve? Go figure. By bringing attention to the criminals who have crippled the US economy and the global economy as well. These goons need to be arrested, tried and locked away in prison. As long as they reign you will not see an improved economy, just mass theft by them. https://occupywallst.org/users/OccupyWallSt/ OccupyWallSt.org stands in solidarity without brothers and sisters in Boston who are marching on Bank of America: www.TakeBackBoston.org http://www.takebackboston.org/ 2 Comments https://occupywallst.org/article/take-back-boston/#comments Radiohead at 4PM https://occupywallst.org/article/radiohead-4pm/ Posted Sept. 30, 2011, 12:13 p.m. EST by anonymous Radiohead will play a surprise show for #occupywallstreet today at four in the afternoon. I see no reason why this will not spread like fire in dry grass in the USA as in so many other countries. People have seen that capitalism has failed and serves a few only. How can you watch your brothers die unnecessary of hunger in a world of plenty and still call yourseves men ? - Maitreya Now that communism is gone the next to go is capitalism - Maharishi
[FairfieldLife] Re: Greetings from Occupied Wall Street
I'm sure that the protest solved major economic problems, and that if the people protesting were in charge of business and major economic policies, the whole economic mess we have would have never occurred. seekliberation --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@... wrote: Welcome login https://occupywallst.org/login/ | signup https://occupywallst.org/signup/ [Raised Fist] OccupyWallStreet https://occupywallst.org/ The resistance continues at Liberty Square and Nationwide http://occupytogether.org/ ! * News https://occupywallst.org/ * LiveStream http://www.livestream.com/globalrevolution * Forum https://occupywallst.org/forum/ * Chat https://occupywallst.org/chat/ * User Map https://occupywallst.org/attendees/ * NYCGA http://nycga.cc/ * About https://occupywallst.org/about/ * Donate http://nycga.cc/?page_id=377 * http://www.facebook.com/OccupyWallSt https://twitter.com/#!/OccupyWallSt http://www.reddit.com/r/occupywallstreet/ Greetings from Occupied Wall Street, https://occupywallst.org/article/greetings-occupied-wall-street/ Posted Sept. 30, 2011, 5:06 a.m. EST by OccupyWallSt https://occupywallst.org/users/OccupyWallSt/ Occupy Wall Street has recently come into the media spotlight, not because of our political message, but because certain high-ranking members of the NYPD punched, threw, and stepped on peaceful marchers. Arrestees were handcuffed so tight their hands turned blue. Many of these people have yet to regain feeling in their extremities. A senior police officer infamously forced women into pens and maced them at point-blank range. While we vehemently condemn these abuses of power, we urge all who read this to remain focused on our intended message. Abuse of power is abuse of power. Whether perpetrated by Wall Street bankers or members of the NYPD, it is the duty of all citizens to oppose injustice. We condemn the actions of unprofessional police who used excessive force in subduing a peaceful march. But we are foremost here to oppose the growing power of the ruling class. Let us also be clear that, when approached as individuals, members of the NYPD have expressed solidarity with our cause. It has been inspiring to receive this support. Over these thirteen days, we have learned that no one supports corporations' disproportionate influence in the political sphere. We have learned that no one is in favor of evicting struggling families to the street while banks continue to profit. No one, that is, except the corporations and banks. We urge members of the NYPD to remain in solidarity with our cause. These men and women could lose their pensions and benefits during the next round of budget cuts. We ask that members of the NYPD treat all peaceful human beings with respect and care. This will be a great step towards reclaiming power for the working class. Those who profit off the suffering of others will held accountable. We are the 99%, and we are too big to fail. Tonight we march to One Police Plaza. 66 Comments https://occupywallst.org/article/greetings-occupied-wall-street/#commen\ ts Day 12 https://occupywallst.org/article/day-12/ Posted Sept. 29, 2011, 10:26 p.m. EST by OccupyWallSt https://occupywallst.org/users/OccupyWallSt/ [Liberty Square Layout] https://occupywallst.org/media/img/LibertyPlaza500.jpg
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Greetings from Occupied Wall Street
So you think that crony capitalism is a walloping success? Or are the Koch brothers paying you to post here? Why don't you give us your solution (if you have any)? On 09/30/2011 03:58 PM, emptybill wrote: Yep just what we need ... show trials. The Bavarian communists tried the criminal industialists and then shot them. Then the counter-revolution took over with a revenge. Stalin and Mao were more successful. They murdered millions. Too bad for the losers. You gotta rid the world of losers. Communism failed and then died. Maharishi failed and then died. No heaven on Earth prevailed at any time anywhere except in the mythic imaginations of over-indulged suburban kids of the 1960's+ Why would a bunch of middle-class blotted-lackey protesters do anything when only in 'smerica would they be safe enough to holler their worn out slogans? Don't be so smug you fools - you're being stalked by your final end and in ain't no pari-nirvana. BarryII and Nab-yur-lost ... maybe you two are next for the yamaduta-s. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitunoozguru@ wrote: On 09/30/2011 08:50 AM, richardwillytexwilliams wrote: nablusoss1008: Occupy Wall Street So. I wonder how is occupying Wall Street is going to make the U.S. economy improve? Go figure. By bringing attention to the criminals who have crippled the US economy and the global economy as well. These goons need to be arrested, tried and locked away in prison. As long as they reign you will not see an improved economy, just mass theft by them. https://occupywallst.org/users/OccupyWallSt/ OccupyWallSt.org stands in solidarity without brothers and sisters in Boston who are marching on Bank of America: www.TakeBackBoston.org http://www.takebackboston.org/ 2 Comments https://occupywallst.org/article/take-back-boston/#comments Radiohead at 4PMhttps://occupywallst.org/article/radiohead-4pm/ Posted Sept. 30, 2011, 12:13 p.m. EST by anonymous Radiohead will play a surprise show for #occupywallstreet today at four in the afternoon. I see no reason why this will not spread like fire in dry grass in the USA as in so many other countries. People have seen that capitalism has failed and serves a few only. How can you watch your brothers die unnecessary of hunger in a world of plenty and still call yourseves men ? - Maitreya Now that communism is gone the next to go is capitalism - Maharishi
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Greetings from Occupied Wall Street
Well, seek, what kind of solutions do you have? Or do you just favor the status quo (also known as the same ol' same ol' )? I'm sure at the beginning of the decade, retiring bankers looked at the new crop of bright-eyed and bushy-tailed MBAs entering the offices and ran home, sold their stock and bought gold. :-D On 09/30/2011 04:22 PM, seekliberation wrote: I'm sure that the protest solved major economic problems, and that if the people protesting were in charge of business and major economic policies, the whole economic mess we have would have never occurred. seekliberation --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008no_reply@... wrote: Welcome loginhttps://occupywallst.org/login/ | signup https://occupywallst.org/signup/[Raised Fist] OccupyWallStreet https://occupywallst.org/ The resistance continues at Liberty Square and Nationwidehttp://occupytogether.org/ ! * Newshttps://occupywallst.org/ * LiveStreamhttp://www.livestream.com/globalrevolution * Forumhttps://occupywallst.org/forum/ * Chathttps://occupywallst.org/chat/ * User Maphttps://occupywallst.org/attendees/ * NYCGAhttp://nycga.cc/ * Abouthttps://occupywallst.org/about/ * Donatehttp://nycga.cc/?page_id=377 *http://www.facebook.com/OccupyWallSt https://twitter.com/#!/OccupyWallSt http://www.reddit.com/r/occupywallstreet/ Greetings from Occupied Wall Street, https://occupywallst.org/article/greetings-occupied-wall-street/ Posted Sept. 30, 2011, 5:06 a.m. EST by OccupyWallSt https://occupywallst.org/users/OccupyWallSt/ Occupy Wall Street has recently come into the media spotlight, not because of our political message, but because certain high-ranking members of the NYPD punched, threw, and stepped on peaceful marchers. Arrestees were handcuffed so tight their hands turned blue. Many of these people have yet to regain feeling in their extremities. A senior police officer infamously forced women into pens and maced them at point-blank range. While we vehemently condemn these abuses of power, we urge all who read this to remain focused on our intended message. Abuse of power is abuse of power. Whether perpetrated by Wall Street bankers or members of the NYPD, it is the duty of all citizens to oppose injustice. We condemn the actions of unprofessional police who used excessive force in subduing a peaceful march. But we are foremost here to oppose the growing power of the ruling class. Let us also be clear that, when approached as individuals, members of the NYPD have expressed solidarity with our cause. It has been inspiring to receive this support. Over these thirteen days, we have learned that no one supports corporations' disproportionate influence in the political sphere. We have learned that no one is in favor of evicting struggling families to the street while banks continue to profit. No one, that is, except the corporations and banks. We urge members of the NYPD to remain in solidarity with our cause. These men and women could lose their pensions and benefits during the next round of budget cuts. We ask that members of the NYPD treat all peaceful human beings with respect and care. This will be a great step towards reclaiming power for the working class. Those who profit off the suffering of others will held accountable. We are the 99%, and we are too big to fail. Tonight we march to One Police Plaza. 66 Comments https://occupywallst.org/article/greetings-occupied-wall-street/#commen\ ts Day 12https://occupywallst.org/article/day-12/ Posted Sept. 29, 2011, 10:26 p.m. EST by OccupyWallSt https://occupywallst.org/users/OccupyWallSt/ [Liberty Square Layout] https://occupywallst.org/media/img/LibertyPlaza500.jpg
[FairfieldLife] Re: Greetings from Occupied Wall Street
So easy. Just return to the Neolithic and shout out how authentic you are. You oughta join the protests instead of wasting time doing nothing here. Where's your social conscience ... running down your leg? Yes indeedy, I'm paid by the Coka Bros to make fools speak their minds. Don't worry though ... social philosophy was consolidated by Mao and the new slogan is simple ... Nuke 'em all and use the glass slags for roller rings. Allah will know his own. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@... wrote: So you think that crony capitalism is a walloping success? Or are the Koch brothers paying you to post here? Why don't you give us your solution (if you have any)? On 09/30/2011 03:58 PM, emptybill wrote: Yep just what we need ... show trials. The Bavarian communists tried the criminal industialists and then shot them. Then the counter-revolution took over with a revenge. Stalin and Mao were more successful. They murdered millions. Too bad for the losers. You gotta rid the world of losers. Communism failed and then died. Maharishi failed and then died. No heaven on Earth prevailed at any time anywhere except in the mythic imaginations of over-indulged suburban kids of the 1960's+ Why would a bunch of middle-class blotted-lackey protesters do anything when only in 'smerica would they be safe enough to holler their worn out slogans? Don't be so smug you fools - you're being stalked by your final end and in ain't no pari-nirvana. BarryII and Nab-yur-lost ... maybe you two are next for the yamaduta-s. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitunoozguru@ wrote: On 09/30/2011 08:50 AM, richardwillytexwilliams wrote: nablusoss1008: Occupy Wall Street So. I wonder how is occupying Wall Street is going to make the U.S. economy improve? Go figure. By bringing attention to the criminals who have crippled the US economy and the global economy as well. These goons need to be arrested, tried and locked away in prison. As long as they reign you will not see an improved economy, just mass theft by them. https://occupywallst.org/users/OccupyWallSt/ OccupyWallSt.org stands in solidarity without brothers and sisters in Boston who are marching on Bank of America: www.TakeBackBoston.org http://www.takebackboston.org/ 2 Comments https://occupywallst.org/article/take-back-boston/#comments Radiohead at 4PMhttps://occupywallst.org/article/radiohead-4pm/ Posted Sept. 30, 2011, 12:13 p.m. EST by anonymous Radiohead will play a surprise show for #occupywallstreet today at four in the afternoon. I see no reason why this will not spread like fire in dry grass in the USA as in so many other countries. People have seen that capitalism has failed and serves a few only. How can you watch your brothers die unnecessary of hunger in a world of plenty and still call yourseves men ? - Maitreya Now that communism is gone the next to go is capitalism - Maharishi
