[FairfieldLife] Re: Not Satire eliminate the old and disabled Judy
It's the same exact evil. It's just that the Fascists have become more subtle about how they do it. Many right wing Republicans are still linked to the Nazis of WW2. Prescott Bush was almost charged with treason for dealing with Hitler during the war, but his connections quashed it. The eugenics program is alive and well and just like Hitler they want to eliminate the non producers from society. Greed and lust for power has always been at the root of it.No they aren't rounding them up in the street, too visible. They're just feeding them poison and cutting off health care to eliminate millions. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, johnt johnlasher20002000@ wrote: What I'm saying, and I fully understand what satire and irony are, is that this is too serious a situation to deal with subtly or through sarcasm. The point I was trying to make is not a matter of you doing my homework asking you (Judy) to write a satire on the holocaust, but to demonstrate that with such a serious threat to millions neither you nor most people would be willing to approach the holocaust in that manner. You're quite right, I wouldn't. But there's a significant difference between allowing people to die for lack of health care, and deliberately rounding them up and gassing them to death. They're still just as dead, but the *malice* involved is vastly greater with the Holocaust. You can't really satirize that degree of malice the way you can ignorance, greed, and lack of empathy. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: Nobody is making light of or trivializing the issue in question. That's not what satire does--quite the opposite. Maybe this will help: satire is like mockery. Everett is *mocking* those who think it's a good idea to cut Medicare and Medicaid and Social Security, pointing out that they're stupid and cruel and insensitive and greedy. He's being sarcastic when he praises the idea. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, johnt johnlasher20002000@ wrote: I'm not stupid you arrogant * It's just that making light or trivializing a potential genocide is what I object to. Don't bother responding if you're to stupid to get my point. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, johnt johnlasher20002000@ wrote: Judy, Perhaps you could write an example of a satire about the holocaust so I can have more of an idea of how you think this literary form is being used, not being an English scholar myself. No, I'm not going to do your homework for you. There's no need to be an English scholar to understand what satire is. Did you read the Wikipedia entry I linked to on A Modest Proposal? You might also read Wikipedia's entry on satire: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satire Take a look at both of these, then if you still have questions, get back to me, OK? The number of deaths of the most helpless in society due to this movement by some Republicans could easily result in many more than 6 million deaths. Right. That's what the writer was pointing out. He thinks that's a terrible idea. If you understand that he's NOT in favor of cutting Medicaid and Medicare and read his piece with that in mind, I think you'll quickly recognize what satire is. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, johnt johnlasher20002000@ wrote: The fact is, that elements in the Republican party and indeed Obama are talking about cutting Medicaid and Medicare. If they succeed this will have the actual effect of shorting the lives of the poor, elderly and disabled as quoted in the article, and will indeed lessen the expenses to the government without raising taxes on corporations and the wealthy. Regardless of the author's intent, which may have admittedly been to raise public ire, what he's said is actually happening. It would be similar to having a satire on the Holocaust which should still raise public indignation. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, johnt johnlasher20002000@ wrote: Not only is the Wall Street Journal involved in a wiretapping scandal, but now they have writers suggesting the elimination of the elderly and disabled through cutting their medical insurance. This article was published by Market watch, which is owned by the Wall Street Journal and Rupert Murdoch. Unbelievable!!! This is NOT a satire
[FairfieldLife] Re: Not Satire eliminate the old and disabled Judy
johnlasher: The eugenics program is alive and well and just like Hitler they want to eliminate the non producers from society. Adolph Hitler was a National Socialist, but most of the early advocates of eugenics were liberal Democrats. You do realize that most early advocates of eugenics also were in support of family planning, right? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics It is the welfare state that is in crisis and the Left is divided on the question of how to fix it. Anarchists, who are the cannon fodder of the extreme left, are sending the message that the Old Leftist politics has failed and the time has come to double down... Read more: 'The Crusade of Innocents' http://tinyurl.com/2d7b8fn
[FairfieldLife] Re: Not Satire eliminate the old and disabled Judy
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seventhray1 steve.sundur@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, johnt johnlasher20002000@ wrote: What I'm saying, and I fully understand what satire and irony are, is that this is too serious a situation to deal with subtly or through sarcasm. The point I was trying to make is not a matter of you doing my homework asking you (Judy) to write a satire on the holocaust, but to demonstrate that with such a serious threat to millions neither you nor most people would be willing to approach the holocaust in that manner. I think what you are saying is that you had a full blown hissy fit. Exactly. With a drama queen tiara on top.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Not Satire eliminate the old and disabled Judy
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, johnt johnlasher20002000@... wrote: making light or trivializing a potential genocide is what I object to. Do not read this article, then: http://www.theonion.com/articles/nigeria-chosen-to-host-2008-genocides,1261/ Nigeria Chosen To Host 2008 Genocides DECEMBER 15, 2004 | ISSUE 4050 ABUJA, NIGERIAAt a celebratory press conference Monday, President Olusegun Obasanjo announced that Nigeria's troubled but oil-rich city of Warri has been chosen to host the 2008 Genocides. Nigeria is excited for this chance to follow in the footsteps of Somalia, Rwanda, and Sudan, Obasanjo said. Much work remains to be done, but all of the building blocks are in place. Nigeria has many contentious ethnic groups, a volatile economy, and a dependence on food imports. We are well on our way to making 2008 a genocidal year to remember in Nigeria!
[FairfieldLife] Re: Not Satire eliminate the old and disabled Judy
johnlasher: Hissy plus plus still having it... Maybe getting out and voting would be a better idea, instead of posting satire on a newsgroup forum, and trying to pick a fight with Judy. If you're new to this group, that wouldn't be a good way to introduce yourself! Plus, you could write your own satires like Turq does - you're not the only informant that reads the newspapers. I think what you are saying is that you had a full blown hissy fit.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Not Satire eliminate the old and disabled Judy
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seventhray1 steve.sundur@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, johnt johnlasher20002000@ wrote: What I'm saying, and I fully understand what satire and irony are, is that this is too serious a situation to deal with subtly or through sarcasm. The point I was trying to make is not a matter of you doing my homework asking you (Judy) to write a satire on the holocaust, but to demonstrate that with such a serious threat to millions neither you nor most people would be willing to approach the holocaust in that manner. I think what you are saying is that you had a full blown hissy fit. Exactly. With a drama queen tiara on top. But that applies only to johnt, of course, not to, say, Bhairitu: The Republicans are pulling a robbery on Americans. And we have these fools who probably don't even earn much more than $50k a year supporting them! That's because Bhairitu is no longer a TMer, but johnt still is. So Bhairitu gets a pass, while johnt must be put down and piled onto.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Not Satire eliminate the old and disabled Judy
On 07/18/2011 09:20 AM, authfriend wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoisebno_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seventhray1steve.sundur@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, johntjohnlasher20002000@ wrote: What I'm saying, and I fully understand what satire and irony are, is that this is too serious a situation to deal with subtly or through sarcasm. The point I was trying to make is not a matter of you doing my homework asking you (Judy) to write a satire on the holocaust, but to demonstrate that with such a serious threat to millions neither you nor most people would be willing to approach the holocaust in that manner. I think what you are saying is that you had a full blown hissy fit. Exactly. With a drama queen tiara on top. But that applies only to johnt, of course, not to, say, Bhairitu: The Republicans are pulling a robbery on Americans. And we have these fools who probably don't even earn much more than $50k a year supporting them! That's because Bhairitu is no longer a TMer, but johnt still is. So Bhairitu gets a pass, while johnt must be put down and piled onto. Perhaps if Judy would have just replied to johnt, I think the author was being facetious then there wouldn't be an issue. Instead Judy had to make johnt look like a fool. But Judy has this bad habit of doing this a lot the time. So she invites reprisal (which we can assume she is looking for). We know that both Judy and Turq probably don't want to see senior citizens starving on the streets because they are ones themselves. Judy has already stated that in one reply. I think Judy often misses the point that such articles are there to wake people up to what *could* actually happen if we let these selfish thugs run the government. It wouldn't be the first time in history that things have gone awry. And the rich are the real complacent ones that haven't learned from history even if they attended an exclusive Ivy League college (where daddy probably had to pull some string to keep them from flunking out). It is important to note that last year Bill Gate's own father mounted a campaign and initiative in Washington state raise taxes on the state's wealthy. The initiative lost in the election due to a bunch of stupid people who apparently think they are wealthy earning $40,000 a year. Those kind of fools are what I mean when I use the term useful idiots (for the rich) and we even have some of those on FFL. Always notice that the Republicans say raise taxes as if they mean raise taxes on everyone not just people earning $250,000 or more a year. You fools are being had. This country is so dead. :-(
[FairfieldLife] Re: Not Satire eliminate the old and disabled Judy
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@... wrote: On 07/18/2011 09:20 AM, authfriend wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoisebno_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seventhray1steve.sundur@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, johntjohnlasher20002000@ wrote: What I'm saying, and I fully understand what satire and irony are, is that this is too serious a situation to deal with subtly or through sarcasm. The point I was trying to make is not a matter of you doing my homework asking you (Judy) to write a satire on the holocaust, but to demonstrate that with such a serious threat to millions neither you nor most people would be willing to approach the holocaust in that manner. I think what you are saying is that you had a full blown hissy fit. Exactly. With a drama queen tiara on top. But that applies only to johnt, of course, not to, say, Bhairitu: The Republicans are pulling a robbery on Americans. And we have these fools who probably don't even earn much more than $50k a year supporting them! That's because Bhairitu is no longer a TMer, but johnt still is. So Bhairitu gets a pass, while johnt must be put down and piled onto. Perhaps if Judy would have just replied to johnt, I think the author was being facetious then there wouldn't be an issue. Non sequitur. The above is about Barry's hypocrisy, a different issue entirely. But addressing your comment on its own terms: You weren't following the thread. feste explained to johnt that it was satire before I ever spoke up; then when he didn't get it, I explained it to him again, very politely. He still didn't get it. Only at that point did I tweak him a bit. Instead Judy had to make johnt look like a fool. But Judy has this bad habit of doing this a lot the time. As if you didn't! I don't do it unless the person is both wrong *and* arrogant. So she invites reprisal (which we can assume she is looking for). What are you, nuts?? There wasn't any reprisal here. Go back to the beginning and read through the thread. Once johnt realized the guy who wrote the article wasn't seriously suggesting old people be left to die to save the country money, our only disagreement was about whether cutting Medicare and Medicaid was a suitable topic for satire. We know that both Judy and Turq probably don't want to see senior citizens starving on the streets because they are ones themselves. Judy has already stated that in one reply. Don't know about Barry, but I wouldn't want to see senior citizens starving on the street even if I were still a teenager. As it happens, I'm fortunate that I'm unlikely to have to worry about my own situation in any case. But unlike Barry, I don't have any problem with folks expressing alarm at the prospect of cutbacks to the safety net. I think we should *all* be alarmed. I think Judy often misses the point that such articles are there to wake people up to what *could* actually happen if we let these selfish thugs run the government. Yeah, that's right, Bhairitu believes I'm a conservative. Tell us, please, what you believe I *do* think such articles are there for. That should be good for even more of a laugh than what you've written so far.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Not Satire eliminate the old and disabled Judy
Bhairitu: Always notice that the Republicans say raise taxes as if they mean raise taxes on everyone not just people earning $250,000 or more a year. Well, I'd vote for a flat tax that everyone could pay. I'm against payroll taxation on general principles, but I'd be willing to pay my fair share. Everyone knows that when you increase taxes there is actually less revenue coming in because of the many tax loopholes. Can you give me one good reason that some people should pay more in payroll taxes than others pay? That doesn't sound American to me because we're all supposed to be equal under the U.S. Constitution. You fools are being had. You are the one still living out in California! The income tax in California is 9.5%, plus your federal income tax. Looks like you're being had - there is no state income tax in Texas. The combined federal tax rate on income of $60,000, then, is actually 18.5% in California on earnings over $34,500.00.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Not Satire eliminate the old and disabled Judy
Judy, Perhaps you could write an example of a satire about the holocaust so I can have more of an idea of how you think this literary form is being used, not being an English scholar myself. The number of deaths of the most helpless in society due to this movement by some Republicans could easily result in many more than 6 million deaths. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, johnt johnlasher20002000@... wrote: The fact is, that elements in the Republican party and indeed Obama are talking about cutting Medicaid and Medicare. If they succeed this will have the actual effect of shorting the lives of the poor, elderly and disabled as quoted in the article, and will indeed lessen the expenses to the government without raising taxes on corporations and the wealthy. Regardless of the author's intent, which may have admittedly been to raise public ire, what he's said is actually happening. It would be similar to having a satire on the Holocaust which should still raise public indignation. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, johnt johnlasher20002000@ wrote: Not only is the Wall Street Journal involved in a wiretapping scandal, but now they have writers suggesting the elimination of the elderly and disabled through cutting their medical insurance. This article was published by Market watch, which is owned by the Wall Street Journal and Rupert Murdoch. Unbelievable!!! This is NOT a satire John...it's absolutely a satire. As feste explained, the words modest proposal give it away. Read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Modest_Proposal Ever since Swift's essay, modest proposal has been a term that signals satire.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Not Satire eliminate the old and disabled Judy
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, johnt johnlasher20002000@... wrote: Judy, Perhaps you could write an example of a satire about the holocaust so I can have more of an idea of how you think this literary form is being used, not being an English scholar myself. No, I'm not going to do your homework for you. There's no need to be an English scholar to understand what satire is. Did you read the Wikipedia entry I linked to on A Modest Proposal? You might also read Wikipedia's entry on satire: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satire Take a look at both of these, then if you still have questions, get back to me, OK? The number of deaths of the most helpless in society due to this movement by some Republicans could easily result in many more than 6 million deaths. Right. That's what the writer was pointing out. He thinks that's a terrible idea. If you understand that he's NOT in favor of cutting Medicaid and Medicare and read his piece with that in mind, I think you'll quickly recognize what satire is. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, johnt johnlasher20002000@ wrote: The fact is, that elements in the Republican party and indeed Obama are talking about cutting Medicaid and Medicare. If they succeed this will have the actual effect of shorting the lives of the poor, elderly and disabled as quoted in the article, and will indeed lessen the expenses to the government without raising taxes on corporations and the wealthy. Regardless of the author's intent, which may have admittedly been to raise public ire, what he's said is actually happening. It would be similar to having a satire on the Holocaust which should still raise public indignation. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, johnt johnlasher20002000@ wrote: Not only is the Wall Street Journal involved in a wiretapping scandal, but now they have writers suggesting the elimination of the elderly and disabled through cutting their medical insurance. This article was published by Market watch, which is owned by the Wall Street Journal and Rupert Murdoch. Unbelievable!!! This is NOT a satire John...it's absolutely a satire. As feste explained, the words modest proposal give it away. Read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Modest_Proposal Ever since Swift's essay, modest proposal has been a term that signals satire.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Not Satire eliminate the old and disabled Judy
I'm not stupid you arrogant * It's just that making light or trivializing a potential genocide is what I object to. Don't bother responding if you're to stupid to get my point. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, johnt johnlasher20002000@ wrote: Judy, Perhaps you could write an example of a satire about the holocaust so I can have more of an idea of how you think this literary form is being used, not being an English scholar myself. No, I'm not going to do your homework for you. There's no need to be an English scholar to understand what satire is. Did you read the Wikipedia entry I linked to on A Modest Proposal? You might also read Wikipedia's entry on satire: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satire Take a look at both of these, then if you still have questions, get back to me, OK? The number of deaths of the most helpless in society due to this movement by some Republicans could easily result in many more than 6 million deaths. Right. That's what the writer was pointing out. He thinks that's a terrible idea. If you understand that he's NOT in favor of cutting Medicaid and Medicare and read his piece with that in mind, I think you'll quickly recognize what satire is. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, johnt johnlasher20002000@ wrote: The fact is, that elements in the Republican party and indeed Obama are talking about cutting Medicaid and Medicare. If they succeed this will have the actual effect of shorting the lives of the poor, elderly and disabled as quoted in the article, and will indeed lessen the expenses to the government without raising taxes on corporations and the wealthy. Regardless of the author's intent, which may have admittedly been to raise public ire, what he's said is actually happening. It would be similar to having a satire on the Holocaust which should still raise public indignation. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, johnt johnlasher20002000@ wrote: Not only is the Wall Street Journal involved in a wiretapping scandal, but now they have writers suggesting the elimination of the elderly and disabled through cutting their medical insurance. This article was published by Market watch, which is owned by the Wall Street Journal and Rupert Murdoch. Unbelievable!!! This is NOT a satire John...it's absolutely a satire. As feste explained, the words modest proposal give it away. Read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Modest_Proposal Ever since Swift's essay, modest proposal has been a term that signals satire.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Not Satire eliminate the old and disabled Judy
Nobody is making light of or trivializing the issue in question. That's not what satire does--quite the opposite. Maybe this will help: satire is like mockery. Everett is *mocking* those who think it's a good idea to cut Medicare and Medicaid and Social Security, pointing out that they're stupid and cruel and insensitive and greedy. He's being sarcastic when he praises the idea. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, johnt johnlasher20002000@... wrote: I'm not stupid you arrogant * It's just that making light or trivializing a potential genocide is what I object to. Don't bother responding if you're to stupid to get my point. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, johnt johnlasher20002000@ wrote: Judy, Perhaps you could write an example of a satire about the holocaust so I can have more of an idea of how you think this literary form is being used, not being an English scholar myself. No, I'm not going to do your homework for you. There's no need to be an English scholar to understand what satire is. Did you read the Wikipedia entry I linked to on A Modest Proposal? You might also read Wikipedia's entry on satire: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satire Take a look at both of these, then if you still have questions, get back to me, OK? The number of deaths of the most helpless in society due to this movement by some Republicans could easily result in many more than 6 million deaths. Right. That's what the writer was pointing out. He thinks that's a terrible idea. If you understand that he's NOT in favor of cutting Medicaid and Medicare and read his piece with that in mind, I think you'll quickly recognize what satire is. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, johnt johnlasher20002000@ wrote: The fact is, that elements in the Republican party and indeed Obama are talking about cutting Medicaid and Medicare. If they succeed this will have the actual effect of shorting the lives of the poor, elderly and disabled as quoted in the article, and will indeed lessen the expenses to the government without raising taxes on corporations and the wealthy. Regardless of the author's intent, which may have admittedly been to raise public ire, what he's said is actually happening. It would be similar to having a satire on the Holocaust which should still raise public indignation. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, johnt johnlasher20002000@ wrote: Not only is the Wall Street Journal involved in a wiretapping scandal, but now they have writers suggesting the elimination of the elderly and disabled through cutting their medical insurance. This article was published by Market watch, which is owned by the Wall Street Journal and Rupert Murdoch. Unbelievable!!! This is NOT a satire John...it's absolutely a satire. As feste explained, the words modest proposal give it away. Read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Modest_Proposal Ever since Swift's essay, modest proposal has been a term that signals satire.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Not Satire eliminate the old and disabled Judy
I think John's point is that if the article is a satire (which it is certainly intended to be), it is a bad satire, because a significant number of people are seriously advocating some of the very things that the writer mentions. Now, with Swift's Modest Proposal, no one could possibly support what he satirically advocates, because it is so outrageous. The satirical purpose is therefore much clearer than this recent article in Market Watch, a cursory reading of which (without catching the allusion in the subtitle) might well give the impression that the writer is actually advocating the things he mentions rather than making a satirical argument against them. For that reason, it's not a very good satire. Had the writer been been even more outrageous, his purpose might have become more clear for the unwary. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@... wrote: Nobody is making light of or trivializing the issue in question. That's not what satire does--quite the opposite. Maybe this will help: satire is like mockery. Everett is *mocking* those who think it's a good idea to cut Medicare and Medicaid and Social Security, pointing out that they're stupid and cruel and insensitive and greedy. He's being sarcastic when he praises the idea. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, johnt johnlasher20002000@ wrote: I'm not stupid you arrogant * It's just that making light or trivializing a potential genocide is what I object to. Don't bother responding if you're to stupid to get my point. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, johnt johnlasher20002000@ wrote: Judy, Perhaps you could write an example of a satire about the holocaust so I can have more of an idea of how you think this literary form is being used, not being an English scholar myself. No, I'm not going to do your homework for you. There's no need to be an English scholar to understand what satire is. Did you read the Wikipedia entry I linked to on A Modest Proposal? You might also read Wikipedia's entry on satire: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satire Take a look at both of these, then if you still have questions, get back to me, OK? The number of deaths of the most helpless in society due to this movement by some Republicans could easily result in many more than 6 million deaths. Right. That's what the writer was pointing out. He thinks that's a terrible idea. If you understand that he's NOT in favor of cutting Medicaid and Medicare and read his piece with that in mind, I think you'll quickly recognize what satire is. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, johnt johnlasher20002000@ wrote: The fact is, that elements in the Republican party and indeed Obama are talking about cutting Medicaid and Medicare. If they succeed this will have the actual effect of shorting the lives of the poor, elderly and disabled as quoted in the article, and will indeed lessen the expenses to the government without raising taxes on corporations and the wealthy. Regardless of the author's intent, which may have admittedly been to raise public ire, what he's said is actually happening. It would be similar to having a satire on the Holocaust which should still raise public indignation. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, johnt johnlasher20002000@ wrote: Not only is the Wall Street Journal involved in a wiretapping scandal, but now they have writers suggesting the elimination of the elderly and disabled through cutting their medical insurance. This article was published by Market watch, which is owned by the Wall Street Journal and Rupert Murdoch. Unbelievable!!! This is NOT a satire John...it's absolutely a satire. As feste explained, the words modest proposal give it away. Read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Modest_Proposal Ever since Swift's essay, modest proposal has been a term that signals satire.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Not Satire eliminate the old and disabled Judy
What I'm saying, and I fully understand what satire and irony are, is that this is too serious a situation to deal with subtly or through sarcasm. The point I was trying to make is not a matter of you doing my homework asking you (Judy) to write a satire on the holocaust, but to demonstrate that with such a serious threat to millions neither you nor most people would be willing to approach the holocaust in that manner. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@... wrote: Nobody is making light of or trivializing the issue in question. That's not what satire does--quite the opposite. Maybe this will help: satire is like mockery. Everett is *mocking* those who think it's a good idea to cut Medicare and Medicaid and Social Security, pointing out that they're stupid and cruel and insensitive and greedy. He's being sarcastic when he praises the idea. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, johnt johnlasher20002000@ wrote: I'm not stupid you arrogant * It's just that making light or trivializing a potential genocide is what I object to. Don't bother responding if you're to stupid to get my point. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, johnt johnlasher20002000@ wrote: Judy, Perhaps you could write an example of a satire about the holocaust so I can have more of an idea of how you think this literary form is being used, not being an English scholar myself. No, I'm not going to do your homework for you. There's no need to be an English scholar to understand what satire is. Did you read the Wikipedia entry I linked to on A Modest Proposal? You might also read Wikipedia's entry on satire: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satire Take a look at both of these, then if you still have questions, get back to me, OK? The number of deaths of the most helpless in society due to this movement by some Republicans could easily result in many more than 6 million deaths. Right. That's what the writer was pointing out. He thinks that's a terrible idea. If you understand that he's NOT in favor of cutting Medicaid and Medicare and read his piece with that in mind, I think you'll quickly recognize what satire is. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, johnt johnlasher20002000@ wrote: The fact is, that elements in the Republican party and indeed Obama are talking about cutting Medicaid and Medicare. If they succeed this will have the actual effect of shorting the lives of the poor, elderly and disabled as quoted in the article, and will indeed lessen the expenses to the government without raising taxes on corporations and the wealthy. Regardless of the author's intent, which may have admittedly been to raise public ire, what he's said is actually happening. It would be similar to having a satire on the Holocaust which should still raise public indignation. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, johnt johnlasher20002000@ wrote: Not only is the Wall Street Journal involved in a wiretapping scandal, but now they have writers suggesting the elimination of the elderly and disabled through cutting their medical insurance. This article was published by Market watch, which is owned by the Wall Street Journal and Rupert Murdoch. Unbelievable!!! This is NOT a satire John...it's absolutely a satire. As feste explained, the words modest proposal give it away. Read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Modest_Proposal Ever since Swift's essay, modest proposal has been a term that signals satire.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Not Satire eliminate the old and disabled Judy
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, feste37 feste37@... wrote: I think John's point is that if the article is a satire (which it is certainly intended to be), it is a bad satire, because a significant number of people are seriously advocating some of the very things that the writer mentions. Well, that's a good point, but on the other hand, the writer says explicitly that doing away with Medicare and Medicaid is a great idea because allowing the elderly and poor to die sooner than they would have otherwise will save the country a lot of money. Nobody is seriously advocating that (at least not in public). They just want the poor and elderly to pay for their own healthcare (ignoring the fact that they can't afford to do that and also eat). So you're right, it's not *as* clear that it's satire as Swift's Modest Proposal, but I think it's clear enough. Now, with Swift's Modest Proposal, no one could possibly support what he satirically advocates, because it is so outrageous. The satirical purpose is therefore much clearer than this recent article in Market Watch, a cursory reading of which (without catching the allusion in the subtitle) might well give the impression that the writer is actually advocating the things he mentions rather than making a satirical argument against them. For that reason, it's not a very good satire. Had the writer been been even more outrageous, his purpose might have become more clear for the unwary. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: Nobody is making light of or trivializing the issue in question. That's not what satire does--quite the opposite. Maybe this will help: satire is like mockery. Everett is *mocking* those who think it's a good idea to cut Medicare and Medicaid and Social Security, pointing out that they're stupid and cruel and insensitive and greedy. He's being sarcastic when he praises the idea. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, johnt johnlasher20002000@ wrote: I'm not stupid you arrogant * It's just that making light or trivializing a potential genocide is what I object to. Don't bother responding if you're to stupid to get my point. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, johnt johnlasher20002000@ wrote: Judy, Perhaps you could write an example of a satire about the holocaust so I can have more of an idea of how you think this literary form is being used, not being an English scholar myself. No, I'm not going to do your homework for you. There's no need to be an English scholar to understand what satire is. Did you read the Wikipedia entry I linked to on A Modest Proposal? You might also read Wikipedia's entry on satire: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satire Take a look at both of these, then if you still have questions, get back to me, OK? The number of deaths of the most helpless in society due to this movement by some Republicans could easily result in many more than 6 million deaths. Right. That's what the writer was pointing out. He thinks that's a terrible idea. If you understand that he's NOT in favor of cutting Medicaid and Medicare and read his piece with that in mind, I think you'll quickly recognize what satire is. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, johnt johnlasher20002000@ wrote: The fact is, that elements in the Republican party and indeed Obama are talking about cutting Medicaid and Medicare. If they succeed this will have the actual effect of shorting the lives of the poor, elderly and disabled as quoted in the article, and will indeed lessen the expenses to the government without raising taxes on corporations and the wealthy. Regardless of the author's intent, which may have admittedly been to raise public ire, what he's said is actually happening. It would be similar to having a satire on the Holocaust which should still raise public indignation. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, johnt johnlasher20002000@ wrote: Not only is the Wall Street Journal involved in a wiretapping scandal, but now they have writers suggesting the elimination of the elderly and disabled through cutting their medical insurance. This article was published by Market watch, which is owned by the Wall Street Journal and Rupert Murdoch. Unbelievable!!! This is NOT a satire John...it's absolutely a satire. As feste explained, the words modest proposal give it away. Read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Modest_Proposal
[FairfieldLife] Re: Not Satire eliminate the old and disabled Judy
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, johnt johnlasher20002000@... wrote: What I'm saying, and I fully understand what satire and irony are, is that this is too serious a situation to deal with subtly or through sarcasm. The point I was trying to make is not a matter of you doing my homework asking you (Judy) to write a satire on the holocaust, but to demonstrate that with such a serious threat to millions neither you nor most people would be willing to approach the holocaust in that manner. You're quite right, I wouldn't. But there's a significant difference between allowing people to die for lack of health care, and deliberately rounding them up and gassing them to death. They're still just as dead, but the *malice* involved is vastly greater with the Holocaust. You can't really satirize that degree of malice the way you can ignorance, greed, and lack of empathy. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: Nobody is making light of or trivializing the issue in question. That's not what satire does--quite the opposite. Maybe this will help: satire is like mockery. Everett is *mocking* those who think it's a good idea to cut Medicare and Medicaid and Social Security, pointing out that they're stupid and cruel and insensitive and greedy. He's being sarcastic when he praises the idea. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, johnt johnlasher20002000@ wrote: I'm not stupid you arrogant * It's just that making light or trivializing a potential genocide is what I object to. Don't bother responding if you're to stupid to get my point. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, johnt johnlasher20002000@ wrote: Judy, Perhaps you could write an example of a satire about the holocaust so I can have more of an idea of how you think this literary form is being used, not being an English scholar myself. No, I'm not going to do your homework for you. There's no need to be an English scholar to understand what satire is. Did you read the Wikipedia entry I linked to on A Modest Proposal? You might also read Wikipedia's entry on satire: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satire Take a look at both of these, then if you still have questions, get back to me, OK? The number of deaths of the most helpless in society due to this movement by some Republicans could easily result in many more than 6 million deaths. Right. That's what the writer was pointing out. He thinks that's a terrible idea. If you understand that he's NOT in favor of cutting Medicaid and Medicare and read his piece with that in mind, I think you'll quickly recognize what satire is. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, johnt johnlasher20002000@ wrote: The fact is, that elements in the Republican party and indeed Obama are talking about cutting Medicaid and Medicare. If they succeed this will have the actual effect of shorting the lives of the poor, elderly and disabled as quoted in the article, and will indeed lessen the expenses to the government without raising taxes on corporations and the wealthy. Regardless of the author's intent, which may have admittedly been to raise public ire, what he's said is actually happening. It would be similar to having a satire on the Holocaust which should still raise public indignation. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, johnt johnlasher20002000@ wrote: Not only is the Wall Street Journal involved in a wiretapping scandal, but now they have writers suggesting the elimination of the elderly and disabled through cutting their medical insurance. This article was published by Market watch, which is owned by the Wall Street Journal and Rupert Murdoch. Unbelievable!!! This is NOT a satire John...it's absolutely a satire. As feste explained, the words modest proposal give it away. Read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Modest_Proposal Ever since Swift's essay, modest proposal has been a term that signals satire.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Not Satire eliminate the old and disabled Judy
The malice is just as great just under the guise of legitimacy probably for the same reasons greed. The right wing Republicans have a direct link to the Nazis. Look at Prescott Bush's dealing with the third Reich during WW2 (which was quashed) .the same underlying Fascism is alive and well and people better wake up to it. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, johnt johnlasher20002000@ wrote: What I'm saying, and I fully understand what satire and irony are, is that this is too serious a situation to deal with subtly or through sarcasm. The point I was trying to make is not a matter of you doing my homework asking you (Judy) to write a satire on the holocaust, but to demonstrate that with such a serious threat to millions neither you nor most people would be willing to approach the holocaust in that manner. You're quite right, I wouldn't. But there's a significant difference between allowing people to die for lack of health care, and deliberately rounding them up and gassing them to death. They're still just as dead, but the *malice* involved is vastly greater with the Holocaust. You can't really satirize that degree of malice the way you can ignorance, greed, and lack of empathy. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: Nobody is making light of or trivializing the issue in question. That's not what satire does--quite the opposite. Maybe this will help: satire is like mockery. Everett is *mocking* those who think it's a good idea to cut Medicare and Medicaid and Social Security, pointing out that they're stupid and cruel and insensitive and greedy. He's being sarcastic when he praises the idea. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, johnt johnlasher20002000@ wrote: I'm not stupid you arrogant * It's just that making light or trivializing a potential genocide is what I object to. Don't bother responding if you're to stupid to get my point. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, johnt johnlasher20002000@ wrote: Judy, Perhaps you could write an example of a satire about the holocaust so I can have more of an idea of how you think this literary form is being used, not being an English scholar myself. No, I'm not going to do your homework for you. There's no need to be an English scholar to understand what satire is. Did you read the Wikipedia entry I linked to on A Modest Proposal? You might also read Wikipedia's entry on satire: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satire Take a look at both of these, then if you still have questions, get back to me, OK? The number of deaths of the most helpless in society due to this movement by some Republicans could easily result in many more than 6 million deaths. Right. That's what the writer was pointing out. He thinks that's a terrible idea. If you understand that he's NOT in favor of cutting Medicaid and Medicare and read his piece with that in mind, I think you'll quickly recognize what satire is. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, johnt johnlasher20002000@ wrote: The fact is, that elements in the Republican party and indeed Obama are talking about cutting Medicaid and Medicare. If they succeed this will have the actual effect of shorting the lives of the poor, elderly and disabled as quoted in the article, and will indeed lessen the expenses to the government without raising taxes on corporations and the wealthy. Regardless of the author's intent, which may have admittedly been to raise public ire, what he's said is actually happening. It would be similar to having a satire on the Holocaust which should still raise public indignation. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, johnt johnlasher20002000@ wrote: Not only is the Wall Street Journal involved in a wiretapping scandal, but now they have writers suggesting the elimination of the elderly and disabled through cutting their medical insurance. This article was published by Market watch, which is owned by the Wall Street Journal and Rupert Murdoch. Unbelievable!!! This is NOT a satire John...it's absolutely a satire. As feste explained, the words modest proposal give it away. Read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Modest_Proposal Ever since Swift's essay, modest proposal has been a
[FairfieldLife] Re: Not Satire eliminate the old and disabled Judy
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, johnt johnlasher20002000@... wrote: What I'm saying, and I fully understand what satire and irony are, is that this is too serious a situation to deal with subtly or through sarcasm. The point I was trying to make is not a matter of you doing my homework asking you (Judy) to write a satire on the holocaust, but to demonstrate that with such a serious threat to millions neither you nor most people would be willing to approach the holocaust in that manner. I think what you are saying is that you had a full blown hissy fit.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Not Satire eliminate the old and disabled Judy
Hissy plus plus still having it --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seventhray1 steve.sundur@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, johnt johnlasher20002000@ wrote: What I'm saying, and I fully understand what satire and irony are, is that this is too serious a situation to deal with subtly or through sarcasm. The point I was trying to make is not a matter of you doing my homework asking you (Judy) to write a satire on the holocaust, but to demonstrate that with such a serious threat to millions neither you nor most people would be willing to approach the holocaust in that manner. I think what you are saying is that you had a full blown hissy fit.
