[FairfieldLife] Re: Sam Harris on Mysticism vs Faith based religion.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The gnostic tradition of the Christian church was almost utterly crushed-out by the 400AD. Contemplative Christian traditions have survived for 2000 years. There's been a mystical Jewish tradition since forever. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Sam Harris on Mysticism vs Faith based religion.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The gnostic tradition of the Christian church was almost utterly crushed-out by the 400AD. Intriguing. What happened? Uns. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Sam Harris on Mysticism vs Faith based religion.
--- uns_tressor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The gnostic tradition of the Christian church was almost utterly crushed-out by the 400AD. Intriguing. What happened? Uns. Elaine Pagels writes about it in The Gnostic Gospels. With the discovery of the Dead Sea scrolls and the Nag Hammadi Library, it's become clear that the first few 100 years after Christ's death that there were two Christian traditions. One was experiential, the Gnostic, and the other is what survives today. To find out more about it, Pagels is a good place to start. She's a serious, academic researcher. Why the gnostic tradition died out is open to hypothesis, but the direct experiential realization of Christ was replaced by conceptual dogma. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less. dsl.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Sam Harris on Mysticism vs Faith based religion.
--- sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The gnostic tradition of the Christian church was almost utterly crushed-out by the 400AD. Contemplative Christian traditions have survived for 2000 years. There's been a mystical Jewish tradition since forever. Yes, it went underground, but do you think there's an authentic Kabbala tradition extant today with living teachers? I don't know if there's an authentic gnostic tradtion alive today...but then again, I haven't been looking for it! Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Yahoo! for Good - Make a difference this year. http://brand.yahoo.com/cybergivingweek2005/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Sam Harris on Mysticism vs Faith based religion.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- uns_tressor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The gnostic tradition of the Christian church was almost utterly crushed-out by the 400AD. Intriguing. What happened? Uns. Elaine Pagels writes about it in The Gnostic Gospels. With the discovery of the Dead Sea scrolls and the Nag Hammadi Library, it's become clear that the first few 100 years after Christ's death that there were two Christian traditions. One was experiential, the Gnostic, and the other is what survives today. To find out more about it, Pagels is a good place to start. She's a serious, academic researcher. Why the gnostic tradition died out is open to hypothesis, but the direct experiential realization of Christ was replaced by conceptual dogma. There is also some translation being done currently on the most interesting of the Dead Sea scrolls, which is a gospel according to Judas (Iscariot). The language leaves absolutely no question that Judas was a gnostic, and thus opens the question of whether his teacher (Christ) was. However, if you're about to dive into gnosticism in hopes of finding parallels to Eastern mysticism and unity, you'd best prepare yourself for a shock. *Nothing* could possibly be more dualistic than gnosticism; its very philosophical foundations are called 'dualism.' In the strictest forms of gnos- ticism, not only is there no concept of Unity, it was believed that the realms of spirit and matter were *so* different that the latter was not even created by God. Really. Earth and all the material world was created by Satan or the Demiurge (depending on who you believe and what you read). It's a fas- cinating and interesting study, but prepare yourself for the *opposite* of unity, not its personification. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Sam Harris on Mysticism vs Faith based religion.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- uns_tressor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The gnostic tradition of the Christian church was almost utterly crushed-out by the 400AD. Intriguing. What happened? Uns. Elaine Pagels writes about it in The Gnostic Gospels. With the discovery of the Dead Sea scrolls and the Nag Hammadi Library, it's become clear that the first few 100 years after Christ's death that there were two Christian traditions. One was experiential, the Gnostic, and the other is what survives today. To find out more about it, Pagels is a good place to start. She's a serious, academic researcher. Why the gnostic tradition died out is open to hypothesis, but the direct experiential realization of Christ was replaced by conceptual dogma. There's also a pretty good Wikipedia article on Gnosticism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnosticism According to the article, the Gnostic tradition is generally believed to predate Christianity, although some scholars disagree. There's an active Gnostic Usenet newsgroup, alt.religion.gnostic. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Sam Harris on Mysticism vs Faith based religion.
authfriend wrote: There's also a pretty good Wikipedia article on Gnosticism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnosticism According to the article, the Gnostic tradition is generally believed to predate Christianity, although some scholars disagree. There's an active Gnostic Usenet newsgroup, alt.religion.gnostic. ROTFLMAO!!! Judge Judy and her Many Hats: http://tinyurl.com/ax8d4 Emperor's New Clothes: http://tinyurl.com/bem2z Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Sam Harris on Mysticism vs Faith based religion.
--- Peter wrote: Why the gnostic tradition died out is open to hypothesis, but the direct experiential realization of Christ was replaced by conceptual dogma. Robert Perry puts it this way, in his writings about the Course in Miracles: About 2,000 years ago Jesus offered a revolutionary message to the world which, even now, has not been fully grasped. The church quickly institutionalized his radical teachings into an organized religion about worshipping him, obscuring the true meaning of his transformative message. I love that reference to the religion being about worshipping him. It makes it all seem so petty and egomaniacal. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Sam Harris on Mysticism vs Faith based religion.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip However, if you're about to dive into gnosticism in hopes of finding parallels to Eastern mysticism and unity, you'd best prepare yourself for a shock. *Nothing* could possibly be more dualistic than gnosticism; its very philosophical foundations are called 'dualism.' In the strictest forms of gnos- ticism, not only is there no concept of Unity, it was believed that the realms of spirit and matter were *so* different that the latter was not even created by God. Really. Earth and all the material world was created by Satan or the Demiurge (depending on who you believe and what you read). It's a fas- cinating and interesting study, but prepare yourself for the *opposite* of unity, not its personification. Actually, if you have a reasonably good grasp of the Advaita brand of Unity, in terms of the nature of its apparent paradoxes, there are more parallels than you might think at first glance, sort of lurking beneath the surface or between the lines. It's not totally clear what early-Christian-era Gnostics actually believed, however, given that most of the contemporary accounts of it were written by orthodox Christians who were rather strenuously advocating *against* it; they tended not to portray its doctrines in the most favorable or reasonable light. (Kinda like trying to evaluate TM by reading the posts of TNBs...) At any rate, on alt.religion.gnosticism, possible parallels to Eastern thought come up on a fairly regular basis, but the self-professed Gnostics on the group typically become enraged at the very suggestion. On the other hand, they're not very familiar, if at all, with Advaita. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
