[FairfieldLife] Re: The Invention of Heaven
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo fintlewoodle...@... wrote: snip And yet, and yet ... of course I understand why so many people want to believe in heaven, even now, even in the face of all the evidence, and all reason. It is a way however futilely of trying to escape the awful emptiness of death. As Philip Larkin put it: Not to be here/Not to be anywhere/And soon; nothing more terrible, nothing more true. To die. To rot. To be nothing. We wouldn't be sane if we didn't seek a way to leap off this conveyor-belt heading towards a cliff. I guess I must not be sane, then, because I see the horror at the awful emptiness of death as a cognitive problem, a peculiar inability to recognize that if Nothing Comes Next, *you won't know it*. Or anything else. People seem to think they're going to *be* there, looking around at the emptiness and thinking how awful it is, being nothing and finding it excruciating, even experiencing their bodies rotting. *That* seems insane to me.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Invention of Heaven
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jst...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: snip And yet, and yet ... of course I understand why so many people want to believe in heaven, even now, even in the face of all the evidence, and all reason. It is a way however futilely of trying to escape the awful emptiness of death. As Philip Larkin put it: Not to be here/Not to be anywhere/And soon; nothing more terrible, nothing more true. To die. To rot. To be nothing. We wouldn't be sane if we didn't seek a way to leap off this conveyor-belt heading towards a cliff. I guess I must not be sane, then, because I see the horror at the awful emptiness of death as a cognitive problem, a peculiar inability to recognize that if Nothing Comes Next, *you won't know it*. Or anything else. People seem to think they're going to *be* there, looking around at the emptiness and thinking how awful it is, being nothing and finding it excruciating, even experiencing their bodies rotting. *That* seems insane to me. The nothingness is easily understood too. Dying is most probably like going under anaesthetic, nothing you can do except disappear. Along with awareness goes the part of you that thinks there must be something else that survives.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Invention of Heaven
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jst...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: snip And yet, and yet ... of course I understand why so many people want to believe in heaven, even now, even in the face of all the evidence, and all reason. It is a way however futilely of trying to escape the awful emptiness of death. As Philip Larkin put it: Not to be here/Not to be anywhere/And soon; nothing more terrible, nothing more true. I know. Enlightenment sounds like such a drag. Imagine, losing the sense of individuality. No more mine and Me. The horror! To die. To rot. To be nothing. We wouldn't be sane if we didn't seek a way to leap off this conveyor-belt heading towards a cliff. I guess I must not be sane, then, because I see the horror at the awful emptiness of death as a cognitive problem, a peculiar inability to recognize that if Nothing Comes Next, *you won't know it*. Or anything else. People seem to think they're going to *be* there, looking around at the emptiness and thinking how awful it is, being nothing and finding it excruciating, even experiencing their bodies rotting. *That* seems insane to me.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Invention of Heaven
Hugo: The nothingness is easily understood too. Dying is most probably like going under anaesthetic, nothing you can do except disappear. Along with awareness goes the part of you that thinks there must be something else that survives... You are using metaphysical terms, so to follow this thread, you'd have to assume that we 'exist' in the first place, in order to postulate that we will one day be 'non-existent'. So, really you have said nothing, except to postulate a metaphysical nihilism. In which case, you have said nothing, since you have not proved that we exist. It's a case of circular logic, if not a logical fallacy. I guess I must not be sane, then, because I see the horror at the awful emptiness of death as a cognitive problem, a peculiar inability to recognize that if Nothing Comes Next, *you won't know it*. Or anything else. People seem to think they're going to *be* there, looking around at the emptiness and thinking how awful it is, being nothing and finding it excruciating, even experiencing their bodies rotting. *That* seems insane to me.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Invention of Heaven
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, WillyTex willy...@... wrote: Hugo: The nothingness is easily understood too. Dying is most probably like going under anaesthetic, nothing you can do except disappear. Along with awareness goes the part of you that thinks there must be something else that survives... You are using metaphysical terms, so to follow this thread, you'd have to assume that we 'exist' in the first place, in order to postulate that we will one day be 'non-existent'. I certainly find it hard to believe you exist. So, really you have said nothing, except to postulate a metaphysical nihilism. In which case, you have said nothing, since you have not proved that we exist. It's a case of circular logic, if not a logical fallacy. I guess I must not be sane, then, because I see the horror at the awful emptiness of death as a cognitive problem, a peculiar inability to recognize that if Nothing Comes Next, *you won't know it*. Or anything else. People seem to think they're going to *be* there, looking around at the emptiness and thinking how awful it is, being nothing and finding it excruciating, even experiencing their bodies rotting. *That* seems insane to me.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Invention of Heaven
On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 10:11 AM, Hugo fintlewoodle...@mail.com wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, WillyTex willy...@... wrote: I certainly find it hard to believe you exist. I dated a girl years ago who was an honors philosophy graduate from Vassar. Whenever we got into a tiff she used to prove that I didn't exist. -- Are you better off now than you were 4 trillion dollars ago?
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Invention of Heaven
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, It's just a ride bill.hicks.all.a.r...@... wrote: On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 10:11 AM, Hugo fintlewoodle...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, WillyTex willytex@ wrote: I certainly find it hard to believe you exist. I dated a girl years ago who was an honors philosophy graduate from Vassar. Whenever we got into a tiff she used to prove that I didn't exist. That must have worn down the ol' ego. Are you better off now than you were 4 trillion dollars ago?
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Invention of Heaven
You are using metaphysical terms, so to follow this thread, you'd have to assume that we 'exist' in the first place, in order to postulate that we will one day be 'non-existent'. Hugo: I certainly find it hard to believe you exist. Circular logic, Hugo. You failed to define 'exist'. So, really you have said nothing, except to postulate a metaphysical nihilism. In which case, you have said nothing, since you have not proved that we exist. It's a case of circular logic, if not a logical fallacy.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Invention of Heaven
I dated a girl years ago who was an honors philosophy graduate from Vassar. Whenever we got into a tiff she used to prove that I didn't exist. Hugo: That must have worn down the ol' ego. So you've read Freud. But, do we really have an 'ego'? What about the 'super-ego'? If we have an ego, where is it? Is the term 'ego' a scientific term, or a metaphysical term, Hugo? Sounds to me like you're mixing up physics with theoretical metaphysical constructs. You're not making any sense.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Invention of Heaven
I certainly find it hard to believe you exist. Tom: I dated a girl years ago who was an honors philosophy graduate from Vassar. Whenever we got into a tiff she used to prove that I didn't exist. So, what does it mean to 'not exist'? Why wouldn't we exist in the future, if we existed in the past? If you existed in the past, why wouldn't you exist in the future? And, if you don't exist now, then who is it that is writing these words? And how would anyone 'prove' that they don't exist? So many questions, Tom - so few answers. Metaphysics is concerned with explaining the fundamental nature of being and the world... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metaphysics
