[FairfieldLife] Running through walls [was Re: Question for TM Cheerleaders]
In fact, Maharishi gave you a great gift, and it appears that for some years you made use of it. Then, apparently, someone told you something, and now all you do is spit at the giver, day in, day out, until you end up on Idiot's Bench because you can't count. It's a sad story. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... wrote: that is the difference in you and me (thank God) you believe I quit, I know that I saved myself further brain numbing allegiance to a corrupt man and organization. From: doctordumbass@... doctordumbass@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, March 6, 2013 6:28 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Running through walls [was Re: Question for TM Cheerleaders] Â Ha-Ha! Why, did you quit TM prematurely too?? My take on stuff I quit, is that I quit. I definitely don't continue to dig at it, if I am no longer participating. I would never start an argument with someone, arguing against something they did, when I didn't. How incredibly dense. So, yeah, I don't give quitters a lot of credence. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ wrote: You blew it - There is a phenomenon you've probably heard of in long distance running, called, hitting the wall. It means reaching a point of physical depletion, after 15 or so miles, so that the only thing carrying you forward is your knowledge that it is a temporary phase, that can be transcended. But if you are not confident, this is the end of the journey. TM is all about continuing to run through imagined walls. Too bad you and Bee are quitters. Now, neither of you will ever know about the eternal benefits of TM. Maybe you should've hung in there a little longer? Hmm, you seem to have found yourself a perfect, if ridiculous, way to claim to have won any argument about TM: You only did it for 20 years! What do you know! Doesn't make much of an advertising slogan though: TM - twenty years of running through walls --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: you are an idiot - I did TM for 20 years, twice a day, every day - it took me that long to realize it wasn't the only game in town - stupid me. From: doctordumbass@ To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, March 6, 2013 9:04 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Question for TM Cheerleaders ÃÂ The only people I see repeating what they were TOLD are you and MJ, repeating over and over again, what you TELL yourselves. The thing you haven't recognized about TM, *since you don't do it*, is that the practice keeps you moving. TM is not the static believerism you make it out to be. You have NO IDEA about the techniques' long term effects because you quit doing it, decades ago. So you can fart into the wind all you like, exhorting us all about what TM is and isn't. But you are nothing but a quitter sitting on the sidelines bitching about it, in my humble opinion. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, navashok wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote: My point is that a lot of these discussions are, from my point of view, falling prey to one of the most chronic TM fallacies. People repeat stuff they were TOLD -- by the people selling them the technique -- as if it were not only true, but cosmically true, Gospel Truth. They consider these things Truth so strongly that they *assume* them, parrot them along without even *noticing* the assumption, and then base other, subsequent statements on them as if the Truth of the assumptions was a given. Now that's something I noticed, that the theories and the mindset created continues way after a person actually leaves TM. If you were let's say 10 years in TM, your belief system will be influenced still decades after you left it - not all of the beliefs, but enough for you to still uncover it, if you are interested in it. And if you are interested in challenging their supposed truth or value. In my experience, it's these core or *never challenged* beliefs that persist the longest, and are toughest to either recognize or challenge. Stuff like *assuming* that effortless is better, or that the only way to transcend is via effortlessness. People have been repeating that meme for so long -- in most cases *without ever trying a technique
Re: [FairfieldLife] Running through walls [was Re: Question for TM Cheerleaders]
Ma-Har-Shee didn't give me a damn thing - I paid over $10,000 for all the mantras, sidhis, sidhi preps and all that jazz. From: feste37 fest...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2013 9:26 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Running through walls [was Re: Question for TM Cheerleaders] In fact, Maharishi gave you a great gift, and it appears that for some years you made use of it. Then, apparently, someone told you something, and now all you do is spit at the giver, day in, day out, until you end up on Idiot's Bench because you can't count. It's a sad story. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... wrote: that is the difference in you and me (thank God) you believe I quit, I know that I saved myself further brain numbing allegiance to a corrupt man and organization. From: doctordumbass@... doctordumbass@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, March 6, 2013 6:28 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Running through walls [was Re: Question for TM Cheerleaders]  Ha-Ha! Why, did you quit TM prematurely too?? My take on stuff I quit, is that I quit. I definitely don't continue to dig at it, if I am no longer participating. I would never start an argument with someone, arguing against something they did, when I didn't. How incredibly dense. So, yeah, I don't give quitters a lot of credence. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ wrote: You blew it - There is a phenomenon you've probably heard of in long distance running, called, hitting the wall. It means reaching a point of physical depletion, after 15 or so miles, so that the only thing carrying you forward is your knowledge that it is a temporary phase, that can be transcended. But if you are not confident, this is the end of the journey. TM is all about continuing to run through imagined walls. Too bad you and Bee are quitters. Now, neither of you will ever know about the eternal benefits of TM. Maybe you should've hung in there a little longer? Hmm, you seem to have found yourself a perfect, if ridiculous, way to claim to have won any argument about TM: You only did it for 20 years! What do you know! Doesn't make much of an advertising slogan though: TM - twenty years of running through walls --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: you are an idiot - I did TM for 20 years, twice a day, every day - it took me that long to realize it wasn't the only game in town - stupid me. From: doctordumbass@ To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, March 6, 2013 9:04 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Question for TM Cheerleaders  The only people I see repeating what they were TOLD are you and MJ, repeating over and over again, what you TELL yourselves. The thing you haven't recognized about TM, *since you don't do it*, is that the practice keeps you moving. TM is not the static believerism you make it out to be. You have NO IDEA about the techniques' long term effects because you quit doing it, decades ago. So you can fart into the wind all you like, exhorting us all about what TM is and isn't. But you are nothing but a quitter sitting on the sidelines bitching about it, in my humble opinion. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, navashok wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote: My point is that a lot of these discussions are, from my point of view, falling prey to one of the most chronic TM fallacies. People repeat stuff they were TOLD -- by the people selling them the technique -- as if it were not only true, but cosmically true, Gospel Truth. They consider these things Truth so strongly that they *assume* them, parrot them along without even *noticing* the assumption, and then base other, subsequent statements on them as if the Truth of the assumptions was a given. Now that's something I noticed, that the theories and the mindset created continues way after a person actually leaves TM. If you were let's say 10 years in TM, your belief system will be influenced still decades after you left it - not all of the beliefs, but enough for you to still uncover it, if you are interested in it. And if you are interested in challenging their supposed truth or value. In my experience, it's
[FairfieldLife] Running through walls [was Re: Question for TM Cheerleaders]
He gave you his wisdom, but in your case that was like casting pearls before swine. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... wrote: Ma-Har-Shee didn't give me a damn thing - I paid over $10,000 for all the mantras, sidhis, sidhi preps and all that jazz. From: feste37 feste37@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2013 9:26 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Running through walls [was Re: Question for TM Cheerleaders]  In fact, Maharishi gave you a great gift, and it appears that for some years you made use of it. Then, apparently, someone told you something, and now all you do is spit at the giver, day in, day out, until you end up on Idiot's Bench because you can't count. It's a sad story. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@ wrote: that is the difference in you and me (thank God) you believe I quit, I know that I saved myself further brain numbing allegiance to a corrupt man and organization. From: doctordumbass@ doctordumbass@ To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, March 6, 2013 6:28 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Running through walls [was Re: Question for TM Cheerleaders] àHa-Ha! Why, did you quit TM prematurely too?? My take on stuff I quit, is that I quit. I definitely don't continue to dig at it, if I am no longer participating. I would never start an argument with someone, arguing against something they did, when I didn't. How incredibly dense. So, yeah, I don't give quitters a lot of credence. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ wrote: You blew it - There is a phenomenon you've probably heard of in long distance running, called, hitting the wall. It means reaching a point of physical depletion, after 15 or so miles, so that the only thing carrying you forward is your knowledge that it is a temporary phase, that can be transcended. But if you are not confident, this is the end of the journey. TM is all about continuing to run through imagined walls. Too bad you and Bee are quitters. Now, neither of you will ever know about the eternal benefits of TM. Maybe you should've hung in there a little longer? Hmm, you seem to have found yourself a perfect, if ridiculous, way to claim to have won any argument about TM: You only did it for 20 years! What do you know! Doesn't make much of an advertising slogan though: TM - twenty years of running through walls --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: you are an idiot - I did TM for 20 years, twice a day, every day - it took me that long to realize it wasn't the only game in town - stupid me. From: doctordumbass@ To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, March 6, 2013 9:04 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Question for TM Cheerleaders ÃâàThe only people I see repeating what they were TOLD are you and MJ, repeating over and over again, what you TELL yourselves. The thing you haven't recognized about TM, *since you don't do it*, is that the practice keeps you moving. TM is not the static believerism you make it out to be. You have NO IDEA about the techniques' long term effects because you quit doing it, decades ago. So you can fart into the wind all you like, exhorting us all about what TM is and isn't. But you are nothing but a quitter sitting on the sidelines bitching about it, in my humble opinion. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, navashok wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote: My point is that a lot of these discussions are, from my point of view, falling prey to one of the most chronic TM fallacies. People repeat stuff they were TOLD -- by the people selling them the technique -- as if it were not only true, but cosmically true, Gospel Truth. They consider these things Truth so strongly that they *assume* them, parrot them along without even *noticing* the assumption, and then base other, subsequent statements on them as if the Truth of the assumptions was a given. Now that's something I noticed, that the theories and the mindset created continues way after a person actually leaves TM. If you were let's say 10 years in TM, your belief system
Re: [FairfieldLife] Running through walls [was Re: Question for TM Cheerleaders]
I guess that applies to Girish as well? From: feste37 fest...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2013 1:03 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Running through walls [was Re: Question for TM Cheerleaders] He gave you his wisdom, but in your case that was like casting pearls before swine. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... wrote: Ma-Har-Shee didn't give me a damn thing - I paid over $10,000 for all the mantras, sidhis, sidhi preps and all that jazz. From: feste37 feste37@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2013 9:26 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Running through walls [was Re: Question for TM Cheerleaders]  In fact, Maharishi gave you a great gift, and it appears that for some years you made use of it. Then, apparently, someone told you something, and now all you do is spit at the giver, day in, day out, until you end up on Idiot's Bench because you can't count. It's a sad story. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@ wrote: that is the difference in you and me (thank God) you believe I quit, I know that I saved myself further brain numbing allegiance to a corrupt man and organization. From: doctordumbass@ doctordumbass@ To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, March 6, 2013 6:28 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Running through walls [was Re: Question for TM Cheerleaders]  Ha-Ha! Why, did you quit TM prematurely too?? My take on stuff I quit, is that I quit. I definitely don't continue to dig at it, if I am no longer participating. I would never start an argument with someone, arguing against something they did, when I didn't. How incredibly dense. So, yeah, I don't give quitters a lot of credence. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ wrote: You blew it - There is a phenomenon you've probably heard of in long distance running, called, hitting the wall. It means reaching a point of physical depletion, after 15 or so miles, so that the only thing carrying you forward is your knowledge that it is a temporary phase, that can be transcended. But if you are not confident, this is the end of the journey. TM is all about continuing to run through imagined walls. Too bad you and Bee are quitters. Now, neither of you will ever know about the eternal benefits of TM. Maybe you should've hung in there a little longer? Hmm, you seem to have found yourself a perfect, if ridiculous, way to claim to have won any argument about TM: You only did it for 20 years! What do you know! Doesn't make much of an advertising slogan though: TM - twenty years of running through walls --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: you are an idiot - I did TM for 20 years, twice a day, every day - it took me that long to realize it wasn't the only game in town - stupid me. From: doctordumbass@ To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, March 6, 2013 9:04 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Question for TM Cheerleaders  The only people I see repeating what they were TOLD are you and MJ, repeating over and over again, what you TELL yourselves. The thing you haven't recognized about TM, *since you don't do it*, is that the practice keeps you moving. TM is not the static believerism you make it out to be. You have NO IDEA about the techniques' long term effects because you quit doing it, decades ago. So you can fart into the wind all you like, exhorting us all about what TM is and isn't. But you are nothing but a quitter sitting on the sidelines bitching about it, in my humble opinion. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, navashok wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote: My point is that a lot of these discussions are, from my point of view, falling prey to one of the most chronic TM fallacies. People repeat stuff they were TOLD -- by the people selling them the technique -- as if it were not only true, but cosmically true, Gospel Truth. They consider these things Truth so strongly that they *assume* them, parrot them along without even *noticing* the assumption, and then base other, subsequent statements on them
Re: [FairfieldLife] Running through walls [was Re: Question for TM Cheerleaders]
that is the difference in you and me (thank God) you believe I quit, I know that I saved myself further brain numbing allegiance to a corrupt man and organization. From: doctordumb...@rocketmail.com doctordumb...@rocketmail.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, March 6, 2013 6:28 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Running through walls [was Re: Question for TM Cheerleaders] Ha-Ha! Why, did you quit TM prematurely too?? My take on stuff I quit, is that I quit. I definitely don't continue to dig at it, if I am no longer participating. I would never start an argument with someone, arguing against something they did, when I didn't. How incredibly dense. So, yeah, I don't give quitters a lot of credence. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ wrote: You blew it - There is a phenomenon you've probably heard of in long distance running, called, hitting the wall. It means reaching a point of physical depletion, after 15 or so miles, so that the only thing carrying you forward is your knowledge that it is a temporary phase, that can be transcended. But if you are not confident, this is the end of the journey. TM is all about continuing to run through imagined walls. Too bad you and Bee are quitters. Now, neither of you will ever know about the eternal benefits of TM. Maybe you should've hung in there a little longer? Hmm, you seem to have found yourself a perfect, if ridiculous, way to claim to have won any argument about TM: You only did it for 20 years! What do you know! Doesn't make much of an advertising slogan though: TM - twenty years of running through walls --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: you are an idiot - I did TM for 20 years, twice a day, every day - it took me that long to realize it wasn't the only game in town - stupid me. From: doctordumbass@ To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, March 6, 2013 9:04 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Question for TM Cheerleaders  The only people I see repeating what they were TOLD are you and MJ, repeating over and over again, what you TELL yourselves. The thing you haven't recognized about TM, *since you don't do it*, is that the practice keeps you moving. TM is not the static believerism you make it out to be. You have NO IDEA about the techniques' long term effects because you quit doing it, decades ago. So you can fart into the wind all you like, exhorting us all about what TM is and isn't. But you are nothing but a quitter sitting on the sidelines bitching about it, in my humble opinion. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, navashok wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote: My point is that a lot of these discussions are, from my point of view, falling prey to one of the most chronic TM fallacies. People repeat stuff they were TOLD -- by the people selling them the technique -- as if it were not only true, but cosmically true, Gospel Truth. They consider these things Truth so strongly that they *assume* them, parrot them along without even *noticing* the assumption, and then base other, subsequent statements on them as if the Truth of the assumptions was a given. Now that's something I noticed, that the theories and the mindset created continues way after a person actually leaves TM. If you were let's say 10 years in TM, your belief system will be influenced still decades after you left it - not all of the beliefs, but enough for you to still uncover it, if you are interested in it. And if you are interested in challenging their supposed truth or value. In my experience, it's these core or *never challenged* beliefs that persist the longest, and are toughest to either recognize or challenge. Stuff like *assuming* that effortless is better, or that the only way to transcend is via effortlessness. People have been repeating that meme for so long -- in most cases *without ever trying a technique not based on effortlessness to see if it's really true* -- that they no longer realize that it's a fundamental belief that underlies and shapes all other beliefs they have about meditation in general, and sometimes about life itself. A poignant example of this, related to me by at least half a different spiritual teachers from traditions other than TM, has to do with what long-term TMers come to their public
Re: [FairfieldLife] Running through walls [was Re: Question for TM Cheerleaders]
OTOH, I once heard someone get upset on a tape about the fact that their parent stopped meditating. And Maharishi explained, and here I'll paraphrase: we never know how deep someone got in their last meditation. He said more but this is what I remember and here's my interpretation: that someone may have gotten so deep that they are still integrating that depth of consciousness into their daily life. I don't think doing TM is necessarily for everyone for various reasons many of which are beyond my ken. But there is a meta analysis that indicates that it is the effortlessness of TM that makes it unique and uniquely beneficial. I'm glad I've hung in there when I've hit walls (-: So not the Pat Boone of meditation. The Beatles. Duh! From: doctordumb...@rocketmail.com doctordumb...@rocketmail.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, March 6, 2013 1:16 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Running through walls [was Re: Question for TM Cheerleaders] You blew it - There is a phenomenon you've probably heard of in long distance running, called, hitting the wall. It means reaching a point of physical depletion, after 15 or so miles, so that the only thing carrying you forward is your knowledge that it is a temporary phase, that can be transcended. But if you are not confident, this is the end of the journey. TM is all about continuing to run through imagined walls. Too bad you and Bee are quitters. Now, neither of you will ever know about the eternal benefits of TM. Maybe you should've hung in there a little longer? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: you are an idiot - I did TM for 20 years, twice a day, every day - it took me that long to realize it wasn't the only game in town - stupid me. From: doctordumbass@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, March 6, 2013 9:04 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Question for TM Cheerleaders  The only people I see repeating what they were TOLD are you and MJ, repeating over and over again, what you TELL yourselves. The thing you haven't recognized about TM, *since you don't do it*, is that the practice keeps you moving. TM is not the static believerism you make it out to be. You have NO IDEA about the techniques' long term effects because you quit doing it, decades ago. So you can fart into the wind all you like, exhorting us all about what TM is and isn't. But you are nothing but a quitter sitting on the sidelines bitching about it, in my humble opinion. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, navashok wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote: My point is that a lot of these discussions are, from my point of view, falling prey to one of the most chronic TM fallacies. People repeat stuff they were TOLD -- by the people selling them the technique -- as if it were not only true, but cosmically true, Gospel Truth. They consider these things Truth so strongly that they *assume* them, parrot them along without even *noticing* the assumption, and then base other, subsequent statements on them as if the Truth of the assumptions was a given. Now that's something I noticed, that the theories and the mindset created continues way after a person actually leaves TM. If you were let's say 10 years in TM, your belief system will be influenced still decades after you left it - not all of the beliefs, but enough for you to still uncover it, if you are interested in it. And if you are interested in challenging their supposed truth or value. In my experience, it's these core or *never challenged* beliefs that persist the longest, and are toughest to either recognize or challenge. Stuff like *assuming* that effortless is better, or that the only way to transcend is via effortlessness. People have been repeating that meme for so long -- in most cases *without ever trying a technique not based on effortlessness to see if it's really true* -- that they no longer realize that it's a fundamental belief that underlies and shapes all other beliefs they have about meditation in general, and sometimes about life itself. A poignant example of this, related to me by at least half a different spiritual teachers from traditions other than TM, has to do with what long-term TMers come to their public introductory talks. Often a tech- nique of meditation is taught, and of course they sit there and look as if they're trying it, just like everyone else in the audience. But all of these teachers have related the same story to me. Some of these TMers actually come up to them
[FairfieldLife] Running through walls [was Re: Question for TM Cheerleaders]
You blew it - There is a phenomenon you've probably heard of in long distance running, called, hitting the wall. It means reaching a point of physical depletion, after 15 or so miles, so that the only thing carrying you forward is your knowledge that it is a temporary phase, that can be transcended. But if you are not confident, this is the end of the journey. TM is all about continuing to run through imagined walls. Too bad you and Bee are quitters. Now, neither of you will ever know about the eternal benefits of TM. Maybe you should've hung in there a little longer? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... wrote: you are an idiot - I did TM for 20 years, twice a day, every day - it took me that long to realize it wasn't the only game in town - stupid me. From: doctordumbass@... doctordumbass@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, March 6, 2013 9:04 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Question for TM Cheerleaders  The only people I see repeating what they were TOLD are you and MJ, repeating over and over again, what you TELL yourselves. The thing you haven't recognized about TM, *since you don't do it*, is that the practice keeps you moving. TM is not the static believerism you make it out to be. You have NO IDEA about the techniques' long term effects because you quit doing it, decades ago. So you can fart into the wind all you like, exhorting us all about what TM is and isn't. But you are nothing but a quitter sitting on the sidelines bitching about it, in my humble opinion. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, navashok wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote: My point is that a lot of these discussions are, from my point of view, falling prey to one of the most chronic TM fallacies. People repeat stuff they were TOLD -- by the people selling them the technique -- as if it were not only true, but cosmically true, Gospel Truth. They consider these things Truth so strongly that they *assume* them, parrot them along without even *noticing* the assumption, and then base other, subsequent statements on them as if the Truth of the assumptions was a given. Now that's something I noticed, that the theories and the mindset created continues way after a person actually leaves TM. If you were let's say 10 years in TM, your belief system will be influenced still decades after you left it - not all of the beliefs, but enough for you to still uncover it, if you are interested in it. And if you are interested in challenging their supposed truth or value. In my experience, it's these core or *never challenged* beliefs that persist the longest, and are toughest to either recognize or challenge. Stuff like *assuming* that effortless is better, or that the only way to transcend is via effortlessness. People have been repeating that meme for so long -- in most cases *without ever trying a technique not based on effortlessness to see if it's really true* -- that they no longer realize that it's a fundamental belief that underlies and shapes all other beliefs they have about meditation in general, and sometimes about life itself. A poignant example of this, related to me by at least half a different spiritual teachers from traditions other than TM, has to do with what long-term TMers come to their public introductory talks. Often a tech- nique of meditation is taught, and of course they sit there and look as if they're trying it, just like everyone else in the audience. But all of these teachers have related the same story to me. Some of these TMers actually come up to them later and ask to meet with them privately, because they're interested in attending more talks, or study- ing with them, often because they liked the overall energy of the group or of the teacher, or liked the things he or she talked about. What these teachers have learned to do, out of long experience, is to ask the former TMers, When we practiced the meditation I was teaching, did you actually *try* it, or did you sit there doing TM? Be scrupulously honest now. In *most* cases, when dealing with former TMers, they admit that they never *did* try the new technique of meditation. Some admit that some part of them still felt guilty about trying it, as if doing so were somehow wrong or sinful, and others admitted to not having tried it because they already knew how to meditate. Most of these teachers at this point asked the person applying to study with them to go away, and return when they had regained the ability to achieve Beginner's Mind, and
[FairfieldLife] Running through walls [was Re: Question for TM Cheerleaders]
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@... no_reply@... wrote: You blew it - There is a phenomenon you've probably heard of in long distance running, called, hitting the wall. It means reaching a point of physical depletion, after 15 or so miles, so that the only thing carrying you forward is your knowledge that it is a temporary phase, that can be transcended. But if you are not confident, this is the end of the journey. TM is all about continuing to run through imagined walls. Too bad you and Bee are quitters. Now, neither of you will ever know about the eternal benefits of TM. Maybe you should've hung in there a little longer? Hmm, you seem to have found yourself a perfect, if ridiculous, way to claim to have won any argument about TM: You only did it for 20 years! What do you know! Doesn't make much of an advertising slogan though: TM - twenty years of running through walls --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@ wrote: you are an idiot - I did TM for 20 years, twice a day, every day - it took me that long to realize it wasn't the only game in town - stupid me. From: doctordumbass@ doctordumbass@ To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, March 6, 2013 9:04 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Question for TM Cheerleaders  The only people I see repeating what they were TOLD are you and MJ, repeating over and over again, what you TELL yourselves. The thing you haven't recognized about TM, *since you don't do it*, is that the practice keeps you moving. TM is not the static believerism you make it out to be. You have NO IDEA about the techniques' long term effects because you quit doing it, decades ago. So you can fart into the wind all you like, exhorting us all about what TM is and isn't. But you are nothing but a quitter sitting on the sidelines bitching about it, in my humble opinion. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, navashok wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote: My point is that a lot of these discussions are, from my point of view, falling prey to one of the most chronic TM fallacies. People repeat stuff they were TOLD -- by the people selling them the technique -- as if it were not only true, but cosmically true, Gospel Truth. They consider these things Truth so strongly that they *assume* them, parrot them along without even *noticing* the assumption, and then base other, subsequent statements on them as if the Truth of the assumptions was a given. Now that's something I noticed, that the theories and the mindset created continues way after a person actually leaves TM. If you were let's say 10 years in TM, your belief system will be influenced still decades after you left it - not all of the beliefs, but enough for you to still uncover it, if you are interested in it. And if you are interested in challenging their supposed truth or value. In my experience, it's these core or *never challenged* beliefs that persist the longest, and are toughest to either recognize or challenge. Stuff like *assuming* that effortless is better, or that the only way to transcend is via effortlessness. People have been repeating that meme for so long -- in most cases *without ever trying a technique not based on effortlessness to see if it's really true* -- that they no longer realize that it's a fundamental belief that underlies and shapes all other beliefs they have about meditation in general, and sometimes about life itself. A poignant example of this, related to me by at least half a different spiritual teachers from traditions other than TM, has to do with what long-term TMers come to their public introductory talks. Often a tech- nique of meditation is taught, and of course they sit there and look as if they're trying it, just like everyone else in the audience. But all of these teachers have related the same story to me. Some of these TMers actually come up to them later and ask to meet with them privately, because they're interested in attending more talks, or study- ing with them, often because they liked the overall energy of the group or of the teacher, or liked the things he or she talked about. What these teachers have learned to do, out of long experience, is to ask the former TMers, When we practiced the meditation I was teaching, did you actually *try* it, or did you sit there doing TM? Be scrupulously honest now. In *most* cases, when dealing with former TMers, they admit that they never *did*
[FairfieldLife] Running through walls [was Re: Question for TM Cheerleaders]
Ha-Ha! Why, did you quit TM prematurely too?? My take on stuff I quit, is that I quit. I definitely don't continue to dig at it, if I am no longer participating. I would never start an argument with someone, arguing against something they did, when I didn't. How incredibly dense. So, yeah, I don't give quitters a lot of credence. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: You blew it - There is a phenomenon you've probably heard of in long distance running, called, hitting the wall. It means reaching a point of physical depletion, after 15 or so miles, so that the only thing carrying you forward is your knowledge that it is a temporary phase, that can be transcended. But if you are not confident, this is the end of the journey. TM is all about continuing to run through imagined walls. Too bad you and Bee are quitters. Now, neither of you will ever know about the eternal benefits of TM. Maybe you should've hung in there a little longer? Hmm, you seem to have found yourself a perfect, if ridiculous, way to claim to have won any argument about TM: You only did it for 20 years! What do you know! Doesn't make much of an advertising slogan though: TM - twenty years of running through walls --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@ wrote: you are an idiot - I did TM for 20 years, twice a day, every day - it took me that long to realize it wasn't the only game in town - stupid me. From: doctordumbass@ doctordumbass@ To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, March 6, 2013 9:04 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Question for TM Cheerleaders  The only people I see repeating what they were TOLD are you and MJ, repeating over and over again, what you TELL yourselves. The thing you haven't recognized about TM, *since you don't do it*, is that the practice keeps you moving. TM is not the static believerism you make it out to be. You have NO IDEA about the techniques' long term effects because you quit doing it, decades ago. So you can fart into the wind all you like, exhorting us all about what TM is and isn't. But you are nothing but a quitter sitting on the sidelines bitching about it, in my humble opinion. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, navashok wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote: My point is that a lot of these discussions are, from my point of view, falling prey to one of the most chronic TM fallacies. People repeat stuff they were TOLD -- by the people selling them the technique -- as if it were not only true, but cosmically true, Gospel Truth. They consider these things Truth so strongly that they *assume* them, parrot them along without even *noticing* the assumption, and then base other, subsequent statements on them as if the Truth of the assumptions was a given. Now that's something I noticed, that the theories and the mindset created continues way after a person actually leaves TM. If you were let's say 10 years in TM, your belief system will be influenced still decades after you left it - not all of the beliefs, but enough for you to still uncover it, if you are interested in it. And if you are interested in challenging their supposed truth or value. In my experience, it's these core or *never challenged* beliefs that persist the longest, and are toughest to either recognize or challenge. Stuff like *assuming* that effortless is better, or that the only way to transcend is via effortlessness. People have been repeating that meme for so long -- in most cases *without ever trying a technique not based on effortlessness to see if it's really true* -- that they no longer realize that it's a fundamental belief that underlies and shapes all other beliefs they have about meditation in general, and sometimes about life itself. A poignant example of this, related to me by at least half a different spiritual teachers from traditions other than TM, has to do with what long-term TMers come to their public introductory talks. Often a tech- nique of meditation is taught, and of course they sit there and look as if they're trying it, just like everyone else in the audience. But all of these teachers have related the same story to me. Some of these TMers actually come up to them later and ask to meet with them privately, because they're interested in
