Re: [FairfieldLife] Shudra shunning at MUM was my tipping point (Re: Vaj the honest and forthright)
My rant towards Edg was based on his extreme victim mentality. I'm not denying, minimizing or dismissing the behavior of the TMO. I certainly know exactly what he is talking about. But to present this badge begging scenario as if he was so wronged and humiliated places all power with the TMO and none with him. If someone is abusing you, until you decide to change your behavior in relationship to them, they will continue to abuse you. Sal, I respect your posts a lot, so please let me know why you think my and other's post pointing out Edg's victim mentality are heavy handed. I thought my slave analogy expressed the interpersonal dynamic quite well. --- On Tue, 2/24/09, Sal Sunshine salsunsh...@lisco.com wrote: From: Sal Sunshine salsunsh...@lisco.com Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Shudra shunning at MUM was my tipping point (Re: Vaj the honest and forthright) To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, February 24, 2009, 12:02 AM On Feb 23, 2009, at 10:54 PM, lurkernomore20002000 wrote: Edg, for the life of me, I can't figure out why everyone is busting your chops on this. I can relate to this story at face value. Makes sense to me. Who wants to be humiliated, or shamed, even in a small way. But no, there's got to be slave issues, or whiner issues. Let me throw this arm chair psychology back on them. You've got Peter, Feste, and Richard coming after you. How many kids do they have between them. Could it be.0. How many kids do WE have between us. Like 7. These other guys don't have the foggiest about what it's like to take on the responsibilites of something like this. Let's see how they fare in this regard. Probably be weeping like little school girls. Ya, we know what a real man is. Hell yea we do! Right on, lurk...I thought the slave stuff was a bit much myself. The TMO was good at humiliating people...Edg's response was IMOtotally warranted. Sal
[FairfieldLife] Shudra shunning at MUM was my tipping point (Re: Vaj the honest and forthright)
Hey Lurk, not sure how relevant your response is. Duveyoung claimed that he was forced to beg in public, which is a ridiculous claim. Who forced him? Did some TMO henchmen come to his door and frogmarch him to the capitol and force him to beg in public? I don't think so. His anger at the TMO is simply displaced anger at himself for being such a loser that he couldn't afford even the modest amount charged for a dome fee. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, lurkernomore20002000 steve.sun...@... wrote: Edg, for the life of me, I can't figure out why everyone is busting your chops on this. I can relate to this story at face value. Makes sense to me. Who wants to be humiliated, or shamed, even in a small way. But no, there's got to be slave issues, or whiner issues. Let me throw this arm chair psychology back on them. You've got Peter, Feste, and Richard coming after you. How many kids do they have between them. Could it be.0. How many kids do WE have between us. Like 7. These other guys don't have the foggiest about what it's like to take on the responsibilites of something like this. Let's see how they fare in this regard. Probably be weeping like little school girls. Ya, we know what a real man is. Hell yea we do! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, feste37 feste37@ wrote: Poor little whiner, determined to be a victim. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung no_reply@ wrote: When I was poor and wanting to still be able to do program in the domes, I had to ask them to let me in for free or at least give me a discount on the dome fee. You'd think that the TMO was scoring a point for having a process for folks like me that involved getting some personal information and then deciding if the candidate warranted help. Seems straightforward and Christian of the TMO, eh? But here's how it worked out in real life: 1. You stand in line forever to get to the person at the main table. 2. You ask, softly and discreetly because you're embarrassed to have to ask, about the chance of getting a free badge. 3. The person at the table speaks loudly: Oh, if you cannot afford the fee go to that table over there. 4. Everyone in the room looks to see who's being sent to the shudra table. 5. You go over to that table and they grill ya about if you've asked all your relatives etc. for help in paying the dome fee, whether you might be getting money in the future and would you then pay back the discounting's difference, whether you're active in the local center, etc. Yes, that really is what they did to me. 6. Anyone in the room could hear my conversation with the person at the shudra table. See why I stopped asking for help? In a cult where even an extra dollar a year income could notch you a step higher in the cult's esteem, I was unable to endure the misery of begging to be with God's Holy Crew. Pride -- in this instance -- was my best friend, because, my pride wouldn't let me put myself in the power of these vicious bastards again. I think that being force to beg in public was my tipping point -- from that time onwards, my first interpretation of anything the TMO was doing was to think that some small minded unenlightened bureaucrat was plying a vile intent. Edg
Re: [FairfieldLife] Shudra shunning at MUM was my tipping point (Re: Vaj the honest and forthright)
On Feb 24, 2009, at 4:07 AM, Peter wrote: My rant towards Edg was based on his extreme victim mentality. I'm not denying, minimizing or dismissing the behavior of the TMO. I certainly know exactly what he is talking about. But to present this badge begging scenario as if he was so wronged and humiliated places all power with the TMO and none with him. If someone is abusing you, until you decide to change your behavior in relationship to them, they will continue to abuse you. Sal, I respect your posts a lot, so please let me know why you think my and other's post pointing out Edg's victim mentality are heavy handed. I thought my slave analogy expressed the interpersonal dynamic quite well. Peter, thanks and I didn't mean to pick on you...your posts usually hit the spot and make me think about things in ways I hadn't before, plus you contribute far more wisdom here than I do. I simply thought Edg was expressing healthy anger and still trying to come to terms with something difficult, and that the master/slave dynamic really didn't apply, or if it did than I thought it was fairly clear he *was* trying to break free...as many of us still are. I guess I just felt a *real* victim probably wouldn't have even brought it up. Anyway, just a few thoughts...thanks for calling my attention to how I was coming across. Sal
Re: [FairfieldLife] Shudra shunning at MUM was my tipping point (Re: Vaj the honest and forthright)
On Feb 24, 2009, at 9:30 AM, feste37 wrote: Hey Lurk, not sure how relevant your response is. Duveyoung claimed that he was forced to beg in public, which is a ridiculous claim. Who forced him? Did some TMO henchmen come to his door and frogmarch him to the capitol and force him to beg in public? I don't think so. His anger at the TMO is simply displaced anger at himself for being such a loser that he couldn't afford even the modest amount charged for a dome fee. Yeah, that's right feste, well all know the inherant worth of an individual depends on their bank account, right? And it's not a modest amount when you have kids to support. Sal
[FairfieldLife] Shudra shunning at MUM was my tipping point (Re: Vaj the honest and forthright)
amen to that-- regarding the displaced anger, an all too frequent theme here on FFL from all the TM critics. if anything new was ever said about the TMO and their well known issues, but all of this is just a rehash by those who cannot seem to get past their psychological issues from their time in the TMO. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, feste37 fest...@... wrote: Hey Lurk, not sure how relevant your response is. Duveyoung claimed that he was forced to beg in public, which is a ridiculous claim. Who forced him? Did some TMO henchmen come to his door and frogmarch him to the capitol and force him to beg in public? I don't think so. His anger at the TMO is simply displaced anger at himself for being such a loser that he couldn't afford even the modest amount charged for a dome fee.
[FairfieldLife] Shudra shunning at MUM was my tipping point (Re: Vaj the honest and forthright)
...cue the violins... --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine salsunsh...@... wrote: On Feb 24, 2009, at 9:30 AM, feste37 wrote: Hey Lurk, not sure how relevant your response is. Duveyoung claimed that he was forced to beg in public, which is a ridiculous claim. Who forced him? Did some TMO henchmen come to his door and frogmarch him to the capitol and force him to beg in public? I don't think so. His anger at the TMO is simply displaced anger at himself for being such a loser that he couldn't afford even the modest amount charged for a dome fee. Yeah, that's right feste, well all know the inherant worth of an individual depends on their bank account, right? And it's not a modest amount when you have kids to support. Sal
[FairfieldLife] Shudra shunning at MUM was my tipping point (Re: Vaj the honest and forthright)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, enlightened_dawn11 no_re...@... wrote: amen to that-- regarding the displaced anger, an all too frequent theme here on FFL from all the TM critics. if anything new was ever said about the TMO and their well known issues, but all of this is just a rehash by those who cannot seem to get past their psychological issues from their time in the TMO. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, feste37 feste37@ wrote: Hey Lurk, not sure how relevant your response is. Duveyoung claimed that he was forced to beg in public, which is a ridiculous claim. Who forced him? Did some TMO henchmen come to his door and frogmarch him to the capitol and force him to beg in public? I don't think so. His anger at the TMO is simply displaced anger at himself for being such a loser that he couldn't afford even the modest amount charged for a dome fee. He just felt humiliated by a situation that he felt was poorly handled.so what's new? :-)
[FairfieldLife] Shudra shunning at MUM was my tipping point (Re: Vaj the honest and forthright)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , lurkernomore20002000 steve.sun...@... wrote: [snip] You've got Peter, Feste, and Richard coming after you. How many kids do they have between them. Could it be.0. How many kids do WE have between us. Like 7. [snip] Conclusion? Peter, Feste, and Richard participate in responsible sex: they wear condoms. lurkernomore and Edg irresponsibly ride bareback.
[FairfieldLife] Shudra shunning at MUM was my tipping point (Re: Vaj the honest and forthright)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, feste37 fest...@... wrote: His anger at the TMO is simply displaced anger at himself for being such a loser that he couldn't afford even the modest amount charged for a dome fee. Oh, that's *way, way* out of line. There are innumerable reasons why people can be short of cash that don't qualify them as losers.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Shudra shunning at MUM was my tipping point (Re: Vaj the honest and forthright)
On Tue, Feb 24, 2009 at 10:00 AM, enlightened_dawn11 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: ...cue the violins... Or join the club. I hung out with the well heeled citizens who donated money, facilities and time and we were treated like shit. Flew all the way from Alaska to FF for a Christmas WPA. Was told /on Christmas/ that I needed another recommendation to go on the course. Showed up to a residence course in another state only to arrive at an empty facility: the course had been cancelled. Of course there's the famous This is the course office. Our hours are 1 PM to 4 PM Central Time Monday thru Thursday at 2:30 PM at a time when there weren't mobiles and there are some places still where getting a phone with long distance or international access isn't that easy. And being talked down to. I have forgiven these people. I believe that the lack of real world experience had something to do with it. That plus they were living in their own cult, like the lady on the Taste of Utopia course check in who was practicing the Mother Divine witnessing while checking us in. It has been very pleasant sitting back here listening to the tales of woe about treatment from other people and how people here treated other people fuck you, I was in this dorm first. Nice to see people got their comeuppance because IMO they were part of the problem, not part of the solution. But that's over, done and gone.
[FairfieldLife] Shudra shunning at MUM was my tipping point (Re: Vaj the honest and forthright)
no argument or problem withy what you have written. i am well aware that many in the TMO acted pompous and superior. as you said: OK. done. next. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, I am the eternal l.shad...@... wrote: On Tue, Feb 24, 2009 at 10:00 AM, enlightened_dawn11 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: ...cue the violins... Or join the club. I hung out with the well heeled citizens who donated money, facilities and time and we were treated like shit. Flew all the way from Alaska to FF for a Christmas WPA. Was told /on Christmas/ that I needed another recommendation to go on the course. Showed up to a residence course in another state only to arrive at an empty facility: the course had been cancelled. Of course there's the famous This is the course office. Our hours are 1 PM to 4 PM Central Time Monday thru Thursday at 2:30 PM at a time when there weren't mobiles and there are some places still where getting a phone with long distance or international access isn't that easy. And being talked down to. I have forgiven these people. I believe that the lack of real world experience had something to do with it. That plus they were living in their own cult, like the lady on the Taste of Utopia course check in who was practicing the Mother Divine witnessing while checking us in. It has been very pleasant sitting back here listening to the tales of woe about treatment from other people and how people here treated other people fuck you, I was in this dorm first. Nice to see people got their comeuppance because IMO they were part of the problem, not part of the solution. But that's over, done and gone.
[FairfieldLife] Shudra shunning at MUM was my tipping point (Re: Vaj the honest and forthright)
Feste, I'm just visualizing the situation, and the funny way Edg is telling the story. People like Edg and me figure that the goodwill we try to spread is somehow or sometimes going to be reciprocated. And when it's not, sometimes it just gives us a reality check. I mean the guy had four kids at the MSAE, contributed to to the community atmosphere. Is it too much to expect a little break on the dome fee? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, feste37 fest...@... wrote: Hey Lurk, not sure how relevant your response is. Duveyoung claimed that he was forced to beg in public, which is a ridiculous claim. Who forced him? Did some TMO henchmen come to his door and frogmarch him to the capitol and force him to beg in public? I don't think so. His anger at the TMO is simply displaced anger at himself for being such a loser that he couldn't afford even the modest amount charged for a dome fee. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, lurkernomore20002000 steve.sundur@ wrote: Edg, for the life of me, I can't figure out why everyone is busting your chops on this. I can relate to this story at face value. Makes sense to me. Who wants to be humiliated, or shamed, even in a small way. But no, there's got to be slave issues, or whiner issues. Let me throw this arm chair psychology back on them. You've got Peter, Feste, and Richard coming after you. How many kids do they have between them. Could it be.0. How many kids do WE have between us. Like 7. These other guys don't have the foggiest about what it's like to take on the responsibilites of something like this. Let's see how they fare in this regard. Probably be weeping like little school girls. Ya, we know what a real man is. Hell yea we do! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, feste37 feste37@ wrote: Poor little whiner, determined to be a victim. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung no_reply@ wrote: When I was poor and wanting to still be able to do program in the domes, I had to ask them to let me in for free or at least give me a discount on the dome fee. You'd think that the TMO was scoring a point for having a process for folks like me that involved getting some personal information and then deciding if the candidate warranted help. Seems straightforward and Christian of the TMO, eh? But here's how it worked out in real life: 1. You stand in line forever to get to the person at the main table. 2. You ask, softly and discreetly because you're embarrassed to have to ask, about the chance of getting a free badge. 3. The person at the table speaks loudly: Oh, if you cannot afford the fee go to that table over there. 4. Everyone in the room looks to see who's being sent to the shudra table. 5. You go over to that table and they grill ya about if you've asked all your relatives etc. for help in paying the dome fee, whether you might be getting money in the future and would you then pay back the discounting's difference, whether you're active in the local center, etc. Yes, that really is what they did to me. 6. Anyone in the room could hear my conversation with the person at the shudra table. See why I stopped asking for help? In a cult where even an extra dollar a year income could notch you a step higher in the cult's esteem, I was unable to endure the misery of begging to be with God's Holy Crew. Pride -- in this instance -- was my best friend, because, my pride wouldn't let me put myself in the power of these vicious bastards again. I think that being force to beg in public was my tipping point -- from that time onwards, my first interpretation of anything the TMO was doing was to think that some small minded unenlightened bureaucrat was plying a vile intent. Edg
[FairfieldLife] Shudra shunning at MUM was my tipping point (Re: Vaj the honest and forthright)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung no_re...@... wrote: When I was poor and wanting to still be able to do program in the domes, I had to ask them to let me in for free or at least give me a discount on the dome fee. You'd think that the TMO was scoring a point for having a process for folks like me that involved getting some personal information and then deciding if the candidate warranted help. Seems straightforward and Christian of the TMO, eh? But here's how it worked out in real life: 1. You stand in line forever to get to the person at the main table. 2. You ask, softly and discreetly because you're embarrassed to have to ask, about the chance of getting a free badge. 3. The person at the table speaks loudly: Oh, if you cannot afford the fee go to that table over there. 4. Everyone in the room looks to see who's being sent to the shudra table. 5. You go over to that table and they grill ya about if you've asked all your relatives etc. for help in paying the dome fee, whether you might be getting money in the future and would you then pay back the discounting's difference, whether you're active in the local center, etc. Yes, that really is what they did to me. 6. Anyone in the room could hear my conversation with the person at the shudra table. See why I stopped asking for help? In a cult where even an extra dollar a year income could notch you a step higher in the cult's esteem, I was unable to endure the misery of begging to be with God's Holy Crew. Pride -- in this instance -- was my best friend, because, my pride wouldn't let me put myself in the power of these vicious bastards again. I think that being force to beg in public was my tipping point -- from that time onwards, my first interpretation of anything the TMO was doing was to think that some small minded unenlightened bureaucrat was plying a vile intent. Edg Reminds me of the first time I applied for the Siddhis program and had to get 3 referrals from 3 governors. A week or two later I needed another one, OK, so I got that one. Another week goes by and lo and behold I still need another one (5) so I get that one too (running out of people I even know). Then, after all was said and done, they canceled the course, ..doooh! I think I realized then that the tail was wagging the dog in that org., doesn't mean the meditation doesn't work!
Re: [FairfieldLife] Shudra shunning at MUM was my tipping point (Re: Vaj the honest and forthright)
Edg...and you still haven't gotten over it. Those terrible people in administration! Hey, I get your point, but they wanted money and why the fuck shouldn't you pay money just like everybody else? Man up and get your shit together and cough-up the bucks. Stop seeing yourself as weak and special. Mommy's suckling breast left years ago. You are far from a shudra why do you want us to see you as one? From whence has this blemish come at this untimely hour --- On Mon, 2/23/09, Duveyoung no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: From: Duveyoung no_re...@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Shudra shunning at MUM was my tipping point (Re: Vaj the honest and forthright) To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, February 23, 2009, 12:27 PM When I was poor and wanting to still be able to do program in the domes, I had to ask them to let me in for free or at least give me a discount on the dome fee. You'd think that the TMO was scoring a point for having a process for folks like me that involved getting some personal information and then deciding if the candidate warranted help. Seems straightforward and Christian of the TMO, eh? But here's how it worked out in real life: 1. You stand in line forever to get to the person at the main table. 2. You ask, softly and discreetly because you're embarrassed to have to ask, about the chance of getting a free badge. 3. The person at the table speaks loudly: Oh, if you cannot afford the fee go to that table over there. 4. Everyone in the room looks to see who's being sent to the shudra table. 5. You go over to that table and they grill ya about if you've asked all your relatives etc. for help in paying the dome fee, whether you might be getting money in the future and would you then pay back the discounting's difference, whether you're active in the local center, etc. Yes, that really is what they did to me. 6. Anyone in the room could hear my conversation with the person at the shudra table. See why I stopped asking for help? In a cult where even an extra dollar a year income could notch you a step higher in the cult's esteem, I was unable to endure the misery of begging to be with God's Holy Crew. Pride -- in this instance -- was my best friend, because, my pride wouldn't let me put myself in the power of these vicious bastards again. I think that being force to beg in public was my tipping point -- from that time onwards, my first interpretation of anything the TMO was doing was to think that some small minded unenlightened bureaucrat was plying a vile intent. Edg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradh...@... wrote: On Feb 23, 2009, at 9:11 AM, Richard J. Williams wrote: Curtis wrote: When India elects a Sudra as their leader they can brag too. There are no 'sudras', Curtis - you're just perpetuating the myth like you were trained to do. But in fact, almost all of India's leaders have been dark-skinned. According to friends who worked on staff at MIU for very low wages, and supposedly to get on course, i.e. pay for the TM-Sidhi course, they were treated like shudras, like lesser-evolved people, who shouldn't be touched or engaged. The idea, they felt, was that more evolved people would naturally receive the support of nature and so they were naturally more prosperous. If you lacked money to the extent that you had to (essentially) beg to get on a course or be able to hang at MIU/ meditate in the domes, you were in effect (not only a slave of sorts), an untouchable. Or at least that's the way they felt they were treated. It's an unspoken caste system in the same sense that racism can be covert and engrained without necessarily needing out loud racial slurs or comments. Perhaps we should start calling it the apaurusheya-jati? To subscribe, send a message to: fairfieldlife-subscr...@yahoogroups.com Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!'Yahoo! Groups Links
[FairfieldLife] Shudra shunning at MUM was my tipping point (Re: Vaj the honest and forthright)
Peter, Hey, where am I on record here thinking I was perfect and the TMO was solely imperfect? I should have never moved to FF -- period, so yeah, it's all my bad that I subjected myself to the whole shebang. I don't think the TMO owes me anything -- I gave all I gave freely as an adult. That said, they're still milking the masses by way of an invidious process of chicanery. That's my only gripe: that they're still up to their old tricks and I, knowing about that, do nothing to alert the massesrelying on caveat empor as my excuse for this sin of omission. To me the biggest sin of the TMO is the severe challenge it creates for a practitioner who finally sees clearly the true nature of the cult. I believe that the TMO has sullied the advancement of spirituality in the world by seeding it with literally millions of naysayers who were bilked by the TMO and who never tried another spiritual program because of the bad taste of TMO-type spirituality. Weak and special, huh? Thanks for the professional analysis. Yeah, I can make sense of those poem words -- can't you, haven't you been weak and seemed special? You're projecting it, so it must be so, right? I am weak to my own addictions, and I'm special because, well, everyone is, but one thing I am not is a true believer who takes all sorts of abuse and expects others to turn a blind eye to that abuse upon themselves also. And, hey, I can thank the TMO for delivering that lesson to me, so there's that at least. Right now in FF there are bright eyed TB kids still caught up with the mystique. Last time I lived there, two of my son's friends had just graduated from MUM and were going to TTC. They did that and went out into the world like two Mormons full of passion to save the world. Nothing wrong with that, except that both these guys were fucking brilliant and literally could have gone to any college and learned anything, but instead, they've wasted years trying to be a success at hawking TM to an unhearing world. Yeah, they matured from that experience, but by the time they figured it all out, they'd lost tremendous opportunities, tons of educational momentum, and found themselves way behind career-wise, education-wise, et al. To me, this is a huge sin that MUM and the TMO fosters -- they use EVERYONE AS FODDER and change lives FOREVER. Edg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutp...@... wrote: Edg...and you still haven't gotten over it. Those terrible people in administration! Hey, I get your point, but they wanted money and why the fuck shouldn't you pay money just like everybody else? Man up and get your shit together and cough-up the bucks. Stop seeing yourself as weak and special. Mommy's suckling breast left years ago. You are far from a shudra why do you want us to see you as one? From whence has this blemish come at this untimely hour --- On Mon, 2/23/09, Duveyoung no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: From: Duveyoung no_re...@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Shudra shunning at MUM was my tipping point (Re: Vaj the honest and forthright) To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, February 23, 2009, 12:27 PM When I was poor and wanting to still be able to do program in the domes, I had to ask them to let me in for free or at least give me a discount on the dome fee. You'd think that the TMO was scoring a point for having a process for folks like me that involved getting some personal information and then deciding if the candidate warranted help. Seems straightforward and Christian of the TMO, eh? But here's how it worked out in real life: 1. You stand in line forever to get to the person at the main table. 2. You ask, softly and discreetly because you're embarrassed to have to ask, about the chance of getting a free badge. 3. The person at the table speaks loudly: Oh, if you cannot afford the fee go to that table over there. 4. Everyone in the room looks to see who's being sent to the shudra table. 5. You go over to that table and they grill ya about if you've asked all your relatives etc. for help in paying the dome fee, whether you might be getting money in the future and would you then pay back the discounting's difference, whether you're active in the local center, etc. Yes, that really is what they did to me. 6. Anyone in the room could hear my conversation with the person at the shudra table. See why I stopped asking for help? In a cult where even an extra dollar a year income could notch you a step higher in the cult's esteem, I was unable to endure the misery of begging to be with God's Holy Crew. Pride -- in this instance -- was my best friend, because, my pride wouldn't let me put myself in the power of these vicious bastards again. I think that being force to beg in public was my tipping point -- from that time onwards, my
[FairfieldLife] Shudra shunning at MUM was my tipping point (Re: Vaj the honest and forthright)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung no_re...@... wrote: Peter, Hey, where am I on record here thinking I was perfect and the TMO was solely imperfect? I should have never moved to FF -- period, so yeah, it's all my bad that I subjected myself to the whole shebang. I don't think the TMO owes me anything -- I gave all I gave freely as an adult. That said, they're still milking the masses by way of an invidious process of chicanery. That's my only gripe: that they're still up to their old tricks and I, knowing about that, do nothing to alert the massesrelying on caveat empor as my excuse for this sin of omission. To me the biggest sin of the TMO is the severe challenge it creates for a practitioner who finally sees clearly the true nature of the cult. I believe that the TMO has sullied the advancement of spirituality in the world by seeding it with literally millions of naysayers who were bilked by the TMO and who never tried another spiritual program because of the bad taste of TMO-type spirituality. Weak and special, huh? Thanks for the professional analysis. Yeah, I can make sense of those poem words -- can't you, haven't you been weak and seemed special? You're projecting it, so it must be so, right? I am weak to my own addictions, and I'm special because, well, everyone is, but one thing I am not is a true believer who takes all sorts of abuse and expects others to turn a blind eye to that abuse upon themselves also. And, hey, I can thank the TMO for delivering that lesson to me, so there's that at least. Right now in FF there are bright eyed TB kids still caught up with the mystique. Last time I lived there, two of my son's friends had just graduated from MUM and were going to TTC. They did that and went out into the world like two Mormons full of passion to save the world. Nothing wrong with that, except that both these guys were fucking brilliant and literally could have gone to any college and learned anything, but instead, they've wasted years trying to be a success at hawking TM to an unhearing world. Yeah, they matured from that experience, but by the time they figured it all out, they'd lost tremendous opportunities, tons of educational momentum, and found themselves way behind career-wise, education-wise, et al. To me, this is a huge sin that MUM and the TMO fosters -- they use EVERYONE AS FODDER and change lives FOREVER. Edg Right on Edg. Don't let anyone who has had nothing to do with ffld or the tmo in decades or maybe never and who don't see what's still going on with real lives there everyday shut you up. If you don't see what's going on with real lives then it's easy to say just get over it all so we can go back to reminiscing about the good ol days at MIU in the 70s.
[FairfieldLife] Shudra shunning at MUM was my tipping point (Re: Vaj the honest and forthright)
When I was poor and wanting to still be able to do program in the domes, I had to ask them to let me in for free or at least give me a discount on the dome fee. You'd think that the TMO was scoring a point for having a process for folks like me that involved getting some personal information and then deciding if the candidate warranted help. Seems straightforward and Christian of the TMO, eh? But here's how it worked out in real life: 1. You stand in line forever to get to the person at the main table. 2. You ask, softly and discreetly because you're embarrassed to have to ask, about the chance of getting a free badge. 3. The person at the table speaks loudly: Oh, if you cannot afford the fee go to that table over there. 4. Everyone in the room looks to see who's being sent to the shudra table. 5. You go over to that table and they grill ya about if you've asked all your relatives etc. for help in paying the dome fee, whether you might be getting money in the future and would you then pay back the discounting's difference, whether you're active in the local center, etc. Yes, that really is what they did to me. 6. Anyone in the room could hear my conversation with the person at the shudra table. See why I stopped asking for help? In a cult where even an extra dollar a year income could notch you a step higher in the cult's esteem, I was unable to endure the misery of begging to be with God's Holy Crew. Pride -- in this instance -- was my best friend, because, my pride wouldn't let me put myself in the power of these vicious bastards again. I think that being force to beg in public was my tipping point -- from that time onwards, my first interpretation of anything the TMO was doing was to think that some small minded unenlightened bureaucrat was plying a vile intent. Edg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradh...@... wrote: On Feb 23, 2009, at 9:11 AM, Richard J. Williams wrote: Curtis wrote: When India elects a Sudra as their leader they can brag too. There are no 'sudras', Curtis - you're just perpetuating the myth like you were trained to do. But in fact, almost all of India's leaders have been dark-skinned. According to friends who worked on staff at MIU for very low wages, and supposedly to get on course, i.e. pay for the TM-Sidhi course, they were treated like shudras, like lesser-evolved people, who shouldn't be touched or engaged. The idea, they felt, was that more evolved people would naturally receive the support of nature and so they were naturally more prosperous. If you lacked money to the extent that you had to (essentially) beg to get on a course or be able to hang at MIU/ meditate in the domes, you were in effect (not only a slave of sorts), an untouchable. Or at least that's the way they felt they were treated. It's an unspoken caste system in the same sense that racism can be covert and engrained without necessarily needing out loud racial slurs or comments. Perhaps we should start calling it the apaurusheya-jati?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Shudra shunning at MUM was my tipping point (Re: Vaj the honest and forthright)
--- On Mon, 2/23/09, boo_lives boo_li...@yahoo.com wrote: Right on Edg. Don't let anyone who has had nothing to do with ffld or the tmo in decades or maybe never and who don't see what's still going on with real lives there everyday shut you up. If you don't see what's going on with real lives then it's easy to say just get over it all so we can go back to reminiscing about the good ol days at MIU in the 70s. Hey, I still do my program. I don't live in Ffld anymore, but the point still applies. You're waiting for the slave master to set you free. Guess what, it ain't going to happen. The slave stops being a slave the day he decides not to be a slave. Are there consequences, of course there are, but they don't matter anymore because you're not a slave anymore. I'm not condemning anyone for be a slave, but if you bitch and moan about how unfair the slave master is, you're still just being a slave. That's what a slave master does, its his dharma. To subscribe, send a message to: fairfieldlife-subscr...@yahoogroups.com Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!'Yahoo! Groups Links
[FairfieldLife] Shudra shunning at MUM was my tipping point (Re: Vaj the honest and forthright)
Poor little whiner, determined to be a victim. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung no_re...@... wrote: When I was poor and wanting to still be able to do program in the domes, I had to ask them to let me in for free or at least give me a discount on the dome fee. You'd think that the TMO was scoring a point for having a process for folks like me that involved getting some personal information and then deciding if the candidate warranted help. Seems straightforward and Christian of the TMO, eh? But here's how it worked out in real life: 1. You stand in line forever to get to the person at the main table. 2. You ask, softly and discreetly because you're embarrassed to have to ask, about the chance of getting a free badge. 3. The person at the table speaks loudly: Oh, if you cannot afford the fee go to that table over there. 4. Everyone in the room looks to see who's being sent to the shudra table. 5. You go over to that table and they grill ya about if you've asked all your relatives etc. for help in paying the dome fee, whether you might be getting money in the future and would you then pay back the discounting's difference, whether you're active in the local center, etc. Yes, that really is what they did to me. 6. Anyone in the room could hear my conversation with the person at the shudra table. See why I stopped asking for help? In a cult where even an extra dollar a year income could notch you a step higher in the cult's esteem, I was unable to endure the misery of begging to be with God's Holy Crew. Pride -- in this instance -- was my best friend, because, my pride wouldn't let me put myself in the power of these vicious bastards again. I think that being force to beg in public was my tipping point -- from that time onwards, my first interpretation of anything the TMO was doing was to think that some small minded unenlightened bureaucrat was plying a vile intent. Edg
[FairfieldLife] Shudra shunning at MUM was my tipping point (Re: Vaj the honest and forthright)
All he wanted to do was sit on Daddy's lap and get his hair smoothed. feste37 wrote: Poor little whiner, determined to be a victim. Duveyoung wrote: When I was poor and wanting to still be able to do program in the domes, I had to ask them to let me in for free or at least give me a discount on the dome fee. You'd think that the TMO was scoring a point for having a process for folks like me that involved getting some personal information and then deciding if the candidate warranted help. Seems straightforward and Christian of the TMO, eh? But here's how it worked out in real life: 1. You stand in line forever to get to the person at the main table. 2. You ask, softly and discreetly because you're embarrassed to have to ask, about the chance of getting a free badge. 3. The person at the table speaks loudly: Oh, if you cannot afford the fee go to that table over there. 4. Everyone in the room looks to see who's being sent to the shudra table. 5. You go over to that table and they grill ya about if you've asked all your relatives etc. for help in paying the dome fee, whether you might be getting money in the future and would you then pay back the discounting's difference, whether you're active in the local center, etc. Yes, that really is what they did to me. 6. Anyone in the room could hear my conversation with the person at the shudra table. See why I stopped asking for help? In a cult where even an extra dollar a year income could notch you a step higher in the cult's esteem, I was unable to endure the misery of begging to be with God's Holy Crew. Pride -- in this instance -- was my best friend, because, my pride wouldn't let me put myself in the power of these vicious bastards again. I think that being force to beg in public was my tipping point -- from that time onwards, my first interpretation of anything the TMO was doing was to think that some small minded unenlightened bureaucrat was plying a vile intent. Edg
[FairfieldLife] Shudra shunning at MUM was my tipping point (Re: Vaj the honest and forthright)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutp...@... wrote: --- On Mon, 2/23/09, boo_lives boo_li...@... wrote: Right on Edg. Don't let anyone who has had nothing to do with ffld or the tmo in decades or maybe never and who don't see what's still going on with real lives there everyday shut you up. If you don't see what's going on with real lives then it's easy to say just get over it all so we can go back to reminiscing about the good ol days at MIU in the 70s. Hey, I still do my program. I don't live in Ffld anymore, but the point still applies. You're waiting for the slave master to set you free. Guess what, it ain't going to happen. The slave stops being a slave the day he decides not to be a slave. Are there consequences, of course there are, but they don't matter anymore because you're not a slave anymore. I'm not condemning anyone for be a slave, but if you bitch and moan about how unfair the slave master is, you're still just being a slave. That's what a slave master does, its his dharma. I'm not waiting for anyone to set me free, I have nothing to do with the system. Having come to a wide variety of revelations about MMY and the TMO that I would have found impossible to conceive years ago and coming to some amazing observations about how the mind works as a result and also some amazing insights about how the tmo and similar spiritual groups work, I am motivated to help others who are working through the same illusions and mental straightjacket that longtime life in the tmo has put on them. I have no interest whatsoever in converting anyone happy in the tmo, I understand it and converting is something the tmo is obsessed with and I don't want to emulate them. Anyway, that's me, as far your post, I'm afraid I just don't understand the new age philosophy that pointing out someone's bs means you're still a slave to the bullshit. In helping someone decide to stop being a slave you often have to first help them see that there is a master=slave relationship going on and the master is a bullshit artist who's getting the best of the deal. I prefer doing this one on one, but have no problem with publicizing it online. I also find that anger is often the first stage of someone letting go of a slave abusive relationship and dont' see it as bitching and moaning but a waking up, though they definitely need to go on to less angry stages. Whether it's someone dharma to be a slavemaster or not is irrelevant with regards to seeing it as it is and even doing something about it.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Shudra shunning at MUM was my tipping point (Re: Vaj the honest and forthright)
Yeah, for my whole first year class only me and two others weren't allowed the sidhis course and I knew it was gonna kill my relationship with my girlfriend right then and it did. - Original Message - From: Duveyoung no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 11:27 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Shudra shunning at MUM was my tipping point (Re: Vaj the honest and forthright) When I was poor and wanting to still be able to do program in the domes, I had to ask them to let me in for free or at least give me a discount on the dome fee. You'd think that the TMO was scoring a point for having a process for folks like me that involved getting some personal information and then deciding if the candidate warranted help. Seems straightforward and Christian of the TMO, eh? But here's how it worked out in real life: 1. You stand in line forever to get to the person at the main table. 2. You ask, softly and discreetly because you're embarrassed to have to ask, about the chance of getting a free badge. 3. The person at the table speaks loudly: Oh, if you cannot afford the fee go to that table over there. 4. Everyone in the room looks to see who's being sent to the shudra table. 5. You go over to that table and they grill ya about if you've asked all your relatives etc. for help in paying the dome fee, whether you might be getting money in the future and would you then pay back the discounting's difference, whether you're active in the local center, etc. Yes, that really is what they did to me. 6. Anyone in the room could hear my conversation with the person at the shudra table. See why I stopped asking for help? In a cult where even an extra dollar a year income could notch you a step higher in the cult's esteem, I was unable to endure the misery of begging to be with God's Holy Crew. Pride -- in this instance -- was my best friend, because, my pride wouldn't let me put myself in the power of these vicious bastards again. I think that being force to beg in public was my tipping point -- from that time onwards, my first interpretation of anything the TMO was doing was to think that some small minded unenlightened bureaucrat was plying a vile intent. Edg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradh...@... wrote: On Feb 23, 2009, at 9:11 AM, Richard J. Williams wrote: Curtis wrote: When India elects a Sudra as their leader they can brag too. There are no 'sudras', Curtis - you're just perpetuating the myth like you were trained to do. But in fact, almost all of India's leaders have been dark-skinned. According to friends who worked on staff at MIU for very low wages, and supposedly to get on course, i.e. pay for the TM-Sidhi course, they were treated like shudras, like lesser-evolved people, who shouldn't be touched or engaged. The idea, they felt, was that more evolved people would naturally receive the support of nature and so they were naturally more prosperous. If you lacked money to the extent that you had to (essentially) beg to get on a course or be able to hang at MIU/ meditate in the domes, you were in effect (not only a slave of sorts), an untouchable. Or at least that's the way they felt they were treated. It's an unspoken caste system in the same sense that racism can be covert and engrained without necessarily needing out loud racial slurs or comments. Perhaps we should start calling it the apaurusheya-jati? To subscribe, send a message to: fairfieldlife-subscr...@yahoogroups.com Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!'Yahoo! Groups Links
[FairfieldLife] Shudra shunning at MUM was my tipping point (Re: Vaj the honest and forthright)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, boo_lives boo_li...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutphen@ wrote: --- On Mon, 2/23/09, boo_lives boo_lives@ wrote: Right on Edg. Don't let anyone who has had nothing to do with ffld or the tmo in decades or maybe never and who don't see what's still going on with real lives there everyday shut you up. If you don't see what's going on with real lives then it's easy to say just get over it all so we can go back to reminiscing about the good ol days at MIU in the 70s. Hey, I still do my program. I don't live in Ffld anymore, but the point still applies. You're waiting for the slave master to set you free. Guess what, it ain't going to happen. The slave stops being a slave the day he decides not to be a slave. Are there consequences, of course there are, but they don't matter anymore because you're not a slave anymore. I'm not condemning anyone for be a slave, but if you bitch and moan about how unfair the slave master is, you're still just being a slave. That's what a slave master does, its his dharma. I'm not waiting for anyone to set me free, I have nothing to do with the system. Having come to a wide variety of revelations about MMY and the TMO that I would have found impossible to conceive years ago and coming to some amazing observations about how the mind works as a result and also some amazing insights about how the tmo and similar spiritual groups work, I am motivated to help others who are working through the same illusions and mental straightjacket that longtime life in the tmo has put on them. I have no interest whatsoever in converting anyone happy in the tmo, I understand it and converting is something the tmo is obsessed with and I don't want to emulate them. Anyway, that's me, as far your post, I'm afraid I just don't understand the new age philosophy that pointing out someone's bs means you're still a slave to the bullshit. In helping someone decide to stop being a slave you often have to first help them see that there is a master=slave relationship going on and the master is a bullshit artist who's getting the best of the deal. I prefer doing this one on one, but have no problem with publicizing it online. I also find that anger is often the first stage of someone letting go of a slave abusive relationship and dont' see it as bitching and moaning but a waking up, though they definitely need to go on to less angry stages. Whether it's someone dharma to be a slavemaster or not is irrelevant with regards to seeing it as it is and even doing something about it. Well said Boo. I share your feelings 100%.
[FairfieldLife] Shudra shunning at MUM was my tipping point (Re: Vaj the honest and forthright)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutp...@... Hey, I still do my program. I don't live in Ffld anymore, but the point still applies. You're waiting for the slave master to set you free. Guess what, it ain't going to happen. The slave stops being a slave the day he decides not to be a slave. Are there consequences, of course there are, but they don't matter anymore because you're not a slave anymore. I'm not condemning anyone for be a slave, but if you bitch and moan about how unfair the slave master is, you're still just being a slave. That's what a slave master does, its his dharma. Hey Peter, what's wrong with you, you appear so normal, what happened ? Did the long-term-effects finally gravitate ? In fact you seem so balanced I would not even recommend a checking !
Re: [FairfieldLife] Shudra shunning at MUM was my tipping point (Re: Vaj the honest and forthright)
I agree. Krishna would bitch slap him! --- On Mon, 2/23/09, feste37 fest...@yahoo.com wrote: From: feste37 fest...@yahoo.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Shudra shunning at MUM was my tipping point (Re: Vaj the honest and forthright) To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, February 23, 2009, 3:48 PM Poor little whiner, determined to be a victim. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung no_re...@... wrote: When I was poor and wanting to still be able to do program in the domes, I had to ask them to let me in for free or at least give me a discount on the dome fee. You'd think that the TMO was scoring a point for having a process for folks like me that involved getting some personal information and then deciding if the candidate warranted help. Seems straightforward and Christian of the TMO, eh? But here's how it worked out in real life: 1. You stand in line forever to get to the person at the main table. 2. You ask, softly and discreetly because you're embarrassed to have to ask, about the chance of getting a free badge. 3. The person at the table speaks loudly: Oh, if you cannot afford the fee go to that table over there. 4. Everyone in the room looks to see who's being sent to the shudra table. 5. You go over to that table and they grill ya about if you've asked all your relatives etc. for help in paying the dome fee, whether you might be getting money in the future and would you then pay back the discounting's difference, whether you're active in the local center, etc. Yes, that really is what they did to me. 6. Anyone in the room could hear my conversation with the person at the shudra table. See why I stopped asking for help? In a cult where even an extra dollar a year income could notch you a step higher in the cult's esteem, I was unable to endure the misery of begging to be with God's Holy Crew. Pride -- in this instance -- was my best friend, because, my pride wouldn't let me put myself in the power of these vicious bastards again. I think that being force to beg in public was my tipping point -- from that time onwards, my first interpretation of anything the TMO was doing was to think that some small minded unenlightened bureaucrat was plying a vile intent. Edg To subscribe, send a message to: fairfieldlife-subscr...@yahoogroups.com Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!'Yahoo! Groups Links
[FairfieldLife] Shudra shunning at MUM was my tipping point (Re: Vaj the honest and forthright)
Edg, for the life of me, I can't figure out why everyone is busting your chops on this. I can relate to this story at face value. Makes sense to me. Who wants to be humiliated, or shamed, even in a small way. But no, there's got to be slave issues, or whiner issues. Let me throw this arm chair psychology back on them. You've got Peter, Feste, and Richard coming after you. How many kids do they have between them. Could it be.0. How many kids do WE have between us. Like 7. These other guys don't have the foggiest about what it's like to take on the responsibilites of something like this. Let's see how they fare in this regard. Probably be weeping like little school girls. Ya, we know what a real man is. Hell yea we do! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, feste37 fest...@... wrote: Poor little whiner, determined to be a victim. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung no_reply@ wrote: When I was poor and wanting to still be able to do program in the domes, I had to ask them to let me in for free or at least give me a discount on the dome fee. You'd think that the TMO was scoring a point for having a process for folks like me that involved getting some personal information and then deciding if the candidate warranted help. Seems straightforward and Christian of the TMO, eh? But here's how it worked out in real life: 1. You stand in line forever to get to the person at the main table. 2. You ask, softly and discreetly because you're embarrassed to have to ask, about the chance of getting a free badge. 3. The person at the table speaks loudly: Oh, if you cannot afford the fee go to that table over there. 4. Everyone in the room looks to see who's being sent to the shudra table. 5. You go over to that table and they grill ya about if you've asked all your relatives etc. for help in paying the dome fee, whether you might be getting money in the future and would you then pay back the discounting's difference, whether you're active in the local center, etc. Yes, that really is what they did to me. 6. Anyone in the room could hear my conversation with the person at the shudra table. See why I stopped asking for help? In a cult where even an extra dollar a year income could notch you a step higher in the cult's esteem, I was unable to endure the misery of begging to be with God's Holy Crew. Pride -- in this instance -- was my best friend, because, my pride wouldn't let me put myself in the power of these vicious bastards again. I think that being force to beg in public was my tipping point -- from that time onwards, my first interpretation of anything the TMO was doing was to think that some small minded unenlightened bureaucrat was plying a vile intent. Edg
Re: [FairfieldLife] Shudra shunning at MUM was my tipping point (Re: Vaj the honest and forthright)
On Feb 23, 2009, at 10:54 PM, lurkernomore20002000 wrote: Edg, for the life of me, I can't figure out why everyone is busting your chops on this. I can relate to this story at face value. Makes sense to me. Who wants to be humiliated, or shamed, even in a small way. But no, there's got to be slave issues, or whiner issues. Let me throw this arm chair psychology back on them. You've got Peter, Feste, and Richard coming after you. How many kids do they have between them. Could it be.0. How many kids do WE have between us. Like 7. These other guys don't have the foggiest about what it's like to take on the responsibilites of something like this. Let's see how they fare in this regard. Probably be weeping like little school girls. Ya, we know what a real man is. Hell yea we do! Right on, lurk...I thought the slave stuff was a bit much myself. The TMO was good at humiliating people...Edg's response was IMO totally warranted. Sal
