Re: [FairfieldLife] What would a cool spiritual teaching be like?
Thanks for your input. As should be obvious, I'm ignoring any responses from the MGC, because we all knew what they would be before they were ever posted -- variants on Get Barry, because he posted yet another idea they didn't like. I figure if I ignore them, they'll repeat their pattern and move on soon to getting Share, and then we can *all* ignore them. :-) Your suggestion has merit, however. True, it presents an ideal situation -- being able to find a master of an instrument who would take you on as a student. Most will start with lesser teachers and progress to better teachers only when they need (and deserve) them. A Segovia, after all, is not gonna waste his time giving a Master Class to someone like me, with my rudimentary skills on the guitar. But I like the notion of practice, and of its necessity. That's what I was getting at in my bullet point about shakti. Yes, there are people who can give your state of attention a temporary boost, and shift you into a very different SoA. But what I've seen all too often is that students who spend a lot of time around such transmission teachers tend to ride the energy, and *NOT* practice themselves. The theory, as I understand it, is to temporarily lift the student who is trudging up the mountain and fly them to the top for a few moments, to give them a clearer vision of the goal. Then they get deposited back on the path, right where they were before the shakti-fest, and it's *their job* to start walking again and get to the top on their own. But as a wise man once said, In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not. What I've seen happen is that the students -- having gotten a temporary boost -- just kick back and save up their money for the next one. They become in essence shakti junkies, waiting for the next darshan session or Amma hug or whatever they believe shifted their SoA in the first place. And they *don't* practice, and they *don't* really exhibit any spiritual progress. My experience of teachers who I would consider capable of teaching advanced meditation is that they can provide that temporary boost. You can sit with them and gain levels of clarity that you might not have stumbled upon for months or years on your own. But the meat of such teachings is that you're then supposed to go back and figure out how to achieve them on your own. Many do not. They just wait for the next opportunity to shoot up. Among the *good* teachers I've met who were capable of providing these boosts, their reaction to a student trying to ride the energy like this would be to cut them off, cold turkey. No more shakti-fests until they demonstrate some progress on their own. The *bad* teachers just keep collecting the money for the shakti-fests and succeed mainly in amplifying their own egos and impeding their students' long-term progress. In my opinion, of course. From: Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com As I've said many a time: it should be like learning to play a musical instrument. You go to a master of the instrument to learn how to play it. You don't practice, you don't learn. And you might learn from another teacher to learn a different style or approach. On 06/20/2014 03:11 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: Work for the week finished, I thought I'd sit in this canalside cafe and rap a bit about some of the attributes I think would be refreshing to find in a spiritual trip. It's NOT that I'm looking for one, you understand. It's just that it struck me as a fun idea to write about some of the things I'd *like* to find, as opposed to what I often *do* find. * It's free. That is, all teaching is either supported by the people doing it, or by donations that are actually donations. No one would ever be pressured to contribute, whether it be for talks, or instruction. People who are trying to lay a spiritual trip on others should pay their audiences for the privilege, not vice-versa. * It's fun. This is one of the most important criteria I would look for in a spiritual trip. If the people participating in it don't look like they're having FUN, what possible interest could it have for me? The very concept of FUN should be respected as what it is -- an indicator that you're doing something right, spiritually. * Teachers as fellow travelers. Your teacher or teacher can be your friend or fellow seeker. There is no sense of distance between teacher
Re: [FairfieldLife] What would a cool spiritual teaching be like?
Similarly, my favorite healers are those like qigong master Chunyi Lin who teach people how to heal themselves and their family with even just the cost of a book or set of dvds. Lots of very genuine healers like that around these days. On Saturday, June 21, 2014 6:38 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Thanks for your input. As should be obvious, I'm ignoring any responses from the MGC, because we all knew what they would be before they were ever posted -- variants on Get Barry, because he posted yet another idea they didn't like. I figure if I ignore them, they'll repeat their pattern and move on soon to getting Share, and then we can *all* ignore them. :-) Your suggestion has merit, however. True, it presents an ideal situation -- being able to find a master of an instrument who would take you on as a student. Most will start with lesser teachers and progress to better teachers only when they need (and deserve) them. A Segovia, after all, is not gonna waste his time giving a Master Class to someone like me, with my rudimentary skills on the guitar. But I like the notion of practice, and of its necessity. That's what I was getting at in my bullet point about shakti. Yes, there are people who can give your state of attention a temporary boost, and shift you into a very different SoA. But what I've seen all too often is that students who spend a lot of time around such transmission teachers tend to ride the energy, and *NOT* practice themselves. The theory, as I understand it, is to temporarily lift the student who is trudging up the mountain and fly them to the top for a few moments, to give them a clearer vision of the goal. Then they get deposited back on the path, right where they were before the shakti-fest, and it's *their job* to start walking again and get to the top on their own. But as a wise man once said, In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not. What I've seen happen is that the students -- having gotten a temporary boost -- just kick back and save up their money for the next one. They become in essence shakti junkies, waiting for the next darshan session or Amma hug or whatever they believe shifted their SoA in the first place. And they *don't* practice, and they *don't* really exhibit any spiritual progress. My experience of teachers who I would consider capable of teaching advanced meditation is that they can provide that temporary boost. You can sit with them and gain levels of clarity that you might not have stumbled upon for months or years on your own. But the meat of such teachings is that you're then supposed to go back and figure out how to achieve them on your own. Many do not. They just wait for the next opportunity to shoot up. Among the *good* teachers I've met who were capable of providing these boosts, their reaction to a student trying to ride the energy like this would be to cut them off, cold turkey. No more shakti-fests until they demonstrate some progress on their own. The *bad* teachers just keep collecting the money for the shakti-fests and succeed mainly in amplifying their own egos and impeding their students' long-term progress. In my opinion, of course. From: Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com As I've said many a time: it should be like learning to play a musical instrument. You go to a master of the instrument to learn how to play it. You don't practice, you don't learn. And you might learn from another teacher to learn a different style or approach. On 06/20/2014 03:11 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: Work for the week finished, I thought I'd sit in this canalside cafe and rap a bit about some of the attributes I think would be refreshing to find in a spiritual trip. It's NOT that I'm looking for one, you understand. It's just that it struck me as a fun idea to write about some of the things I'd *like* to find, as opposed to what I often *do* find. * It's free. That is, all teaching is either supported by the people doing it, or by donations that are actually donations. No one would ever be pressured to contribute, whether it be for talks, or instruction. People who are trying to lay a spiritual trip on others should pay their audiences for the privilege, not vice-versa. * It's fun. This is one of the most important criteria I would look for in a spiritual trip. If the people participating in it don't look like they're having FUN, what possible interest could it have for me? The very concept of FUN
Re: [FairfieldLife] What would a cool spiritual teaching be like?
Not a thing wrong with the idea, as far as I'm concerned, except that in the execution, you left out any mention of respecting other spiritual teachings/teachers/practitioners. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : Thanks for your input. As should be obvious, I'm ignoring any responses from the MGC, because we all knew what they would be before they were ever posted -- variants on Get Barry, because he posted yet another idea they didn't like.
[FairfieldLife] What would a cool spiritual teaching be like?
Work for the week finished, I thought I'd sit in this canalside cafe and rap a bit about some of the attributes I think would be refreshing to find in a spiritual trip. It's NOT that I'm looking for one, you understand. It's just that it struck me as a fun idea to write about some of the things I'd *like* to find, as opposed to what I often *do* find. * It's free. That is, all teaching is either supported by the people doing it, or by donations that are actually donations. No one would ever be pressured to contribute, whether it be for talks, or instruction. People who are trying to lay a spiritual trip on others should pay their audiences for the privilege, not vice-versa. * It's fun. This is one of the most important criteria I would look for in a spiritual trip. If the people participating in it don't look like they're having FUN, what possible interest could it have for me? The very concept of FUN should be respected as what it is -- an indicator that you're doing something right, spiritually. * Teachers as fellow travelers. Your teacher or teacher can be your friend or fellow seeker. There is no sense of distance between teacher and student. You hang out together and talk freely to each other, as equals. No ranks, no hierarchy -- either stated or encouraged wordlessly by the way that students interact with the teacher or teachers. No hierarchy for the students, either -- no belt rankings that allow them to think they're on a higher level than others around them. * No sacrosanct dogma. Oh, of course the trip can have theories about How The World Works, and present them. But IMO these theories should be presented *as* theories, not truth, or no-God forbid, Truth. * Everything is fair game for questions. The students have the right to challenge anything the teacher or teachers say. Anything. No saying is holy in the sense that it becomes sacred and thus exempt from questioning. No claim has the right to be accepted if someone asks for it to be documented. * No cult roles or sex roles. The students should not be encouraged (verbally or nonverbally) to act a certain way or dress a certain way. One of the coolest things ever said about the Rama students came from the staff of the Bodhi Tree Bookstore in L.A. They'd seen *everything*, because the seekers from every tradition ever known all came to buy books at their store. And they'd grown adept at nailing which path any customer followed, just by watching them. It became a kind of game for them, and they rarely missed. The only students they couldn't nail were the folks who studied with Rama, because they were all different. In a similar vein, there should ideally be no perceived status associated with one's sex -- men and women should be treated pretty much the same. * No restrictions on thinking or action. No Thou shalt not see other teachers. See who you bloody want. No Thou shalt not read Off The Program books. There should be no program to be off of. People should be encouraged to treat their curiosity about other spiritual teachers or teachings as what it is -- a desire to learn more. * Parties. Really. Too many spiritual trips have gatherings that can only be described as SERIOUS. They're gathering to meditate together, or chant together, or hear a dharma talk together, or have a celebration that isn't one. My ideal spiritual trip would be more like the better days of the Rama trip -- we'd go out to movies, to dinner, to places of power, and to discos. We'd actually (Buck, look away) DANCE. And we'd have actual parties, at which the only spiritual objective was to have FUN. It gives more of a community feeling to the community. * Road Trips. Every so often, the entire group would just Get The Fuck Out Of Dodge, and take their act on the road. It could be a day trip to a nearby place of worship or power, or longer trips overnight to cool places. Taking the group consciousness out of its normal (and thus ignored) environment can do wonders for sparking spiritual experience. * No shakti myths. Even if the teacher or teachers have some phwam! and can shift other people's states of attention and get them high, IMO this ability is better presented as a form of recognition rather than a form of transmission. If the teacher is able to say, Look, I understand that you're getting high from all this, but it's not me doing it. It's the universe. You're just recognizing what is always already present because it may be a little more lively in me, that teacher might not be as likely to fall prey to the pitfalls of ego, and the students might not be as likely to attribute their spiritual progress to outside agencies. * No sex hangups. A student is welcome whether their sexual preference runs to men, women, multiples of both of the former, or toasters. Nobody snoops on anybody else's sexual behavior because 1) that's their business, and 2) theoretically everyone is busy enough with their
Re: [FairfieldLife] What would a cool spiritual teaching be like?
turq, Be the change that you wish to see in the world. Gandhi On Friday, June 20, 2014 5:11 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Work for the week finished, I thought I'd sit in this canalside cafe and rap a bit about some of the attributes I think would be refreshing to find in a spiritual trip. It's NOT that I'm looking for one, you understand. It's just that it struck me as a fun idea to write about some of the things I'd *like* to find, as opposed to what I often *do* find. * It's free. That is, all teaching is either supported by the people doing it, or by donations that are actually donations. No one would ever be pressured to contribute, whether it be for talks, or instruction. People who are trying to lay a spiritual trip on others should pay their audiences for the privilege, not vice-versa. * It's fun. This is one of the most important criteria I would look for in a spiritual trip. If the people participating in it don't look like they're having FUN, what possible interest could it have for me? The very concept of FUN should be respected as what it is -- an indicator that you're doing something right, spiritually. * Teachers as fellow travelers. Your teacher or teacher can be your friend or fellow seeker. There is no sense of distance between teacher and student. You hang out together and talk freely to each other, as equals. No ranks, no hierarchy -- either stated or encouraged wordlessly by the way that students interact with the teacher or teachers. No hierarchy for the students, either -- no belt rankings that allow them to think they're on a higher level than others around them. * No sacrosanct dogma. Oh, of course the trip can have theories about How The World Works, and present them. But IMO these theories should be presented *as* theories, not truth, or no-God forbid, Truth. * Everything is fair game for questions. The students have the right to challenge anything the teacher or teachers say. Anything. No saying is holy in the sense that it becomes sacred and thus exempt from questioning. No claim has the right to be accepted if someone asks for it to be documented. * No cult roles or sex roles. The students should not be encouraged (verbally or nonverbally) to act a certain way or dress a certain way. One of the coolest things ever said about the Rama students came from the staff of the Bodhi Tree Bookstore in L.A. They'd seen *everything*, because the seekers from every tradition ever known all came to buy books at their store. And they'd grown adept at nailing which path any customer followed, just by watching them. It became a kind of game for them, and they rarely missed. The only students they couldn't nail were the folks who studied with Rama, because they were all different. In a similar vein, there should ideally be no perceived status associated with one's sex -- men and women should be treated pretty much the same. * No restrictions on thinking or action. No Thou shalt not see other teachers. See who you bloody want. No Thou shalt not read Off The Program books. There should be no program to be off of. People should be encouraged to treat their curiosity about other spiritual teachers or teachings as what it is -- a desire to learn more. * Parties. Really. Too many spiritual trips have gatherings that can only be described as SERIOUS. They're gathering to meditate together, or chant together, or hear a dharma talk together, or have a celebration that isn't one. My ideal spiritual trip would be more like the better days of the Rama trip -- we'd go out to movies, to dinner, to places of power, and to discos. We'd actually (Buck, look away) DANCE. And we'd have actual parties, at which the only spiritual objective was to have FUN. It gives more of a community feeling to the community. * Road Trips. Every so often, the entire group would just Get The Fuck Out Of Dodge, and take their act on the road. It could be a day trip to a nearby place of worship or power, or longer trips overnight to cool places. Taking the group consciousness out of its normal (and thus ignored) environment can do wonders for sparking spiritual experience. * No shakti myths. Even if the teacher or teachers have some phwam! and can shift other people's states of attention and get them high, IMO this ability is better presented as a form of recognition rather than a form of transmission. If the teacher is able to say, Look, I understand that you're getting high from all this, but it's not me doing it. It's the universe. You're just recognizing what is always already present because it may be a little more lively in me, that teacher might not be as likely to fall prey to the pitfalls of ego, and the students might not be as likely to attribute their spiritual progress to outside agencies. * No sex hangups. A student is welcome whether their sexual preference runs to men,
Re: [FairfieldLife] What would a cool spiritual teaching be like?
I like that - such a responsible and independent statement, similar to Maharishi's, The world is as you are, live Unbounded Awareness ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : turq, Be the change that you wish to see in the world. Gandhi On Friday, June 20, 2014 5:11 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Work for the week finished, I thought I'd sit in this canalside cafe and rap a bit about some of the attributes I think would be refreshing to find in a spiritual trip. It's NOT that I'm looking for one, you understand. It's just that it struck me as a fun idea to write about some of the things I'd *like* to find, as opposed to what I often *do* find. * It's free. That is, all teaching is either supported by the people doing it, or by donations that are actually donations. No one would ever be pressured to contribute, whether it be for talks, or instruction. People who are trying to lay a spiritual trip on others should pay their audiences for the privilege, not vice-versa. * It's fun. This is one of the most important criteria I would look for in a spiritual trip. If the people participating in it don't look like they're having FUN, what possible interest could it have for me? The very concept of FUN should be respected as what it is -- an indicator that you're doing something right, spiritually. * Teachers as fellow travelers. Your teacher or teacher can be your friend or fellow seeker. There is no sense of distance between teacher and student. You hang out together and talk freely to each other, as equals. No ranks, no hierarchy -- either stated or encouraged wordlessly by the way that students interact with the teacher or teachers. No hierarchy for the students, either -- no belt rankings that allow them to think they're on a higher level than others around them. * No sacrosanct dogma. Oh, of course the trip can have theories about How The World Works, and present them. But IMO these theories should be presented *as* theories, not truth, or no-God forbid, Truth. * Everything is fair game for questions. The students have the right to challenge anything the teacher or teachers say. Anything. No saying is holy in the sense that it becomes sacred and thus exempt from questioning. No claim has the right to be accepted if someone asks for it to be documented. * No cult roles or sex roles. The students should not be encouraged (verbally or nonverbally) to act a certain way or dress a certain way. One of the coolest things ever said about the Rama students came from the staff of the Bodhi Tree Bookstore in L.A. They'd seen *everything*, because the seekers from every tradition ever known all came to buy books at their store. And they'd grown adept at nailing which path any customer followed, just by watching them. It became a kind of game for them, and they rarely missed. The only students they couldn't nail were the folks who studied with Rama, because they were all different. In a similar vein, there should ideally be no perceived status associated with one's sex -- men and women should be treated pretty much the same. * No restrictions on thinking or action. No Thou shalt not see other teachers. See who you bloody want. No Thou shalt not read Off The Program books. There should be no program to be off of. People should be encouraged to treat their curiosity about other spiritual teachers or teachings as what it is -- a desire to learn more. * Parties. Really. Too many spiritual trips have gatherings that can only be described as SERIOUS. They're gathering to meditate together, or chant together, or hear a dharma talk together, or have a celebration that isn't one. My ideal spiritual trip would be more like the better days of the Rama trip -- we'd go out to movies, to dinner, to places of power, and to discos. We'd actually (Buck, look away) DANCE. And we'd have actual parties, at which the only spiritual objective was to have FUN. It gives more of a community feeling to the community. * Road Trips. Every so often, the entire group would just Get The Fuck Out Of Dodge, and take their act on the road. It could be a day trip to a nearby place of worship or power, or longer trips overnight to cool places. Taking the group consciousness out of its normal (and thus ignored) environment can do wonders for sparking spiritual experience. * No shakti myths. Even if the teacher or teachers have some phwam! and can shift other people's states of attention and get them high, IMO this ability is better presented as a form of recognition rather than a form of transmission. If the teacher is able to say, Look, I understand that you're getting high from all this, but it's not me doing it. It's the universe. You're just recognizing what is always already present because it may be a little more lively in me, that teacher might not be as likely to fall prey to the
Re: [FairfieldLife] What would a cool spiritual teaching be like?
Sitting in a canalside cafe after work and keying your thoughts into a word processor is probably the perfect cool spiritual trip for you - it works for me. /It's when you go uptown that you may get off the path./ After Hours - Martin Scorcese - 1985- Surrender Dorothy http://youtu.be/XIRN43cVMHI On 6/20/2014 5:11 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: Work for the week finished, I thought I'd sit in this canalside cafe and rap a bit about some of the attributes I think would be refreshing to find in a spiritual trip. It's NOT that I'm looking for one, you understand. It's just that it struck me as a fun idea to write about some of the things I'd *like* to find, as opposed to what I often *do* find. * It's free. That is, all teaching is either supported by the people doing it, or by donations that are actually donations. No one would ever be pressured to contribute, whether it be for talks, or instruction. People who are trying to lay a spiritual trip on others should pay their audiences for the privilege, not vice-versa. * It's fun. This is one of the most important criteria I would look for in a spiritual trip. If the people participating in it don't look like they're having FUN, what possible interest could it have for me? The very concept of FUN should be respected as what it is -- an indicator that you're doing something right, spiritually. * Teachers as fellow travelers. Your teacher or teacher can be your friend or fellow seeker. There is no sense of distance between teacher and student. You hang out together and talk freely to each other, as equals. No ranks, no hierarchy -- either stated or encouraged wordlessly by the way that students interact with the teacher or teachers. No hierarchy for the students, either -- no belt rankings that allow them to think they're on a higher level than others around them. * No sacrosanct dogma. Oh, of course the trip can have theories about How The World Works, and present them. But IMO these theories should be presented *as* theories, not truth, or no-God forbid, Truth. * Everything is fair game for questions. The students have the right to challenge anything the teacher or teachers say. Anything. No saying is holy in the sense that it becomes sacred and thus exempt from questioning. No claim has the right to be accepted if someone asks for it to be documented. * No cult roles or sex roles. The students should not be encouraged (verbally or nonverbally) to act a certain way or dress a certain way. One of the coolest things ever said about the Rama students came from the staff of the Bodhi Tree Bookstore in L.A. They'd seen *everything*, because the seekers from every tradition ever known all came to buy books at their store. And they'd grown adept at nailing which path any customer followed, just by watching them. It became a kind of game for them, and they rarely missed. The only students they couldn't nail were the folks who studied with Rama, because they were all different. In a similar vein, there should ideally be no perceived status associated with one's sex -- men and women should be treated pretty much the same. * No restrictions on thinking or action. No Thou shalt not see other teachers. See who you bloody want. No Thou shalt not read Off The Program books. There should be no program to be off of. People should be encouraged to treat their curiosity about other spiritual teachers or teachings as what it is -- a desire to learn more. * Parties. Really. Too many spiritual trips have gatherings that can only be described as SERIOUS. They're gathering to meditate together, or chant together, or hear a dharma talk together, or have a celebration that isn't one. My ideal spiritual trip would be more like the better days of the Rama trip -- we'd go out to movies, to dinner, to places of power, and to discos. We'd actually (Buck, look away) DANCE. And we'd have actual parties, at which the only spiritual objective was to have FUN. It gives more of a community feeling to the community. * Road Trips. Every so often, the entire group would just Get The Fuck Out Of Dodge, and take their act on the road. It could be a day trip to a nearby place of worship or power, or longer trips overnight to cool places. Taking the group consciousness out of its normal (and thus ignored) environment can do wonders for sparking spiritual experience. * No shakti myths. Even if the teacher or teachers have some phwam! and can shift other people's states of attention and get them high, IMO this ability is better presented as a form of recognition rather than a form of transmission. If the teacher is able to say, Look, I understand that you're getting high from all this, but it's not me doing it. It's the universe. You're just recognizing what is always already present because it may be a little more lively in me, that teacher might not be as likely to fall prey to the
Re: [FairfieldLife] What would a cool spiritual teaching be like?
The Turq gives a good example of what being a follower of the Dolly Lama gives you; lot's of empty words and a swelling ego. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : Sitting in a canalside cafe after work and keying your thoughts into a word processor is probably the perfect cool spiritual trip for you - it works for me. It's when you go uptown that you may get off the path. After Hours - Martin Scorcese - 1985- Surrender Dorothy http://youtu.be/XIRN43cVMHI http://youtu.be/XIRN43cVMHI On 6/20/2014 5:11 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... mailto:turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: Work for the week finished, I thought I'd sit in this canalside cafe and rap a bit about some of the attributes I think would be refreshing to find in a spiritual trip. It's NOT that I'm looking for one, you understand. It's just that it struck me as a fun idea to write about some of the things I'd *like* to find, as opposed to what I often *do* find. * It's free. That is, all teaching is either supported by the people doing it, or by donations that are actually donations. No one would ever be pressured to contribute, whether it be for talks, or instruction. People who are trying to lay a spiritual trip on others should pay their audiences for the privilege, not vice-versa. * It's fun. This is one of the most important criteria I would look for in a spiritual trip. If the people participating in it don't look like they're having FUN, what possible interest could it have for me? The very concept of FUN should be respected as what it is -- an indicator that you're doing something right, spiritually. * Teachers as fellow travelers. Your teacher or teacher can be your friend or fellow seeker. There is no sense of distance between teacher and student. You hang out together and talk freely to each other, as equals. No ranks, no hierarchy -- either stated or encouraged wordlessly by the way that students interact with the teacher or teachers. No hierarchy for the students, either -- no belt rankings that allow them to think they're on a higher level than others around them. * No sacrosanct dogma. Oh, of course the trip can have theories about How The World Works, and present them. But IMO these theories should be presented *as* theories, not truth, or no-God forbid, Truth. * Everything is fair game for questions. The students have the right to challenge anything the teacher or teachers say. Anything. No saying is holy in the sense that it becomes sacred and thus exempt from questioning. No claim has the right to be accepted if someone asks for it to be documented. * No cult roles or sex roles. The students should not be encouraged (verbally or nonverbally) to act a certain way or dress a certain way. One of the coolest things ever said about the Rama students came from the staff of the Bodhi Tree Bookstore in L.A. They'd seen *everything*, because the seekers from every tradition ever known all came to buy books at their store. And they'd grown adept at nailing which path any customer followed, just by watching them. It became a kind of game for them, and they rarely missed. The only students they couldn't nail were the folks who studied with Rama, because they were all different. In a similar vein, there should ideally be no perceived status associated with one's sex -- men and women should be treated pretty much the same. * No restrictions on thinking or action. No Thou shalt not see other teachers. See who you bloody want. No Thou shalt not read Off The Program books. There should be no program to be off of. People should be encouraged to treat their curiosity about other spiritual teachers or teachings as what it is -- a desire to learn more. * Parties. Really. Too many spiritual trips have gatherings that can only be described as SERIOUS. They're gathering to meditate together, or chant together, or hear a dharma talk together, or have a celebration that isn't one. My ideal spiritual trip would be more like the better days of the Rama trip -- we'd go out to movies, to dinner, to places of power, and to discos. We'd actually (Buck, look away) DANCE. And we'd have actual parties, at which the only spiritual objective was to have FUN. It gives more of a community feeling to the community. * Road Trips. Every so often, the entire group would just Get The Fuck Out Of Dodge, and take their act on the road. It could be a day trip to a nearby place of worship or power, or longer trips overnight to cool places. Taking the group consciousness out of its normal (and thus ignored) environment can do wonders for sparking spiritual experience. * No shakti myths. Even if the teacher or teachers have some phwam! and can shift other people's states of attention and get them high, IMO this ability is better presented as a form of recognition rather than a form of transmission. If the teacher is able to say, Look, I
Re: [FairfieldLife] What would a cool spiritual teaching be like?
As I've said many a time: it should be like learning to play a musical instrument. You go to a master of the instrument to learn how to play it. You don't practice, you don't learn. And you might learn from another teacher to learn a different style or approach. On 06/20/2014 03:11 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: Work for the week finished, I thought I'd sit in this canalside cafe and rap a bit about some of the attributes I think would be refreshing to find in a spiritual trip. It's NOT that I'm looking for one, you understand. It's just that it struck me as a fun idea to write about some of the things I'd *like* to find, as opposed to what I often *do* find. * It's free. That is, all teaching is either supported by the people doing it, or by donations that are actually donations. No one would ever be pressured to contribute, whether it be for talks, or instruction. People who are trying to lay a spiritual trip on others should pay their audiences for the privilege, not vice-versa. * It's fun. This is one of the most important criteria I would look for in a spiritual trip. If the people participating in it don't look like they're having FUN, what possible interest could it have for me? The very concept of FUN should be respected as what it is -- an indicator that you're doing something right, spiritually. * Teachers as fellow travelers. Your teacher or teacher can be your friend or fellow seeker. There is no sense of distance between teacher and student. You hang out together and talk freely to each other, as equals. No ranks, no hierarchy -- either stated or encouraged wordlessly by the way that students interact with the teacher or teachers. No hierarchy for the students, either -- no belt rankings that allow them to think they're on a higher level than others around them. * No sacrosanct dogma. Oh, of course the trip can have theories about How The World Works, and present them. But IMO these theories should be presented *as* theories, not truth, or no-God forbid, Truth. * Everything is fair game for questions. The students have the right to challenge anything the teacher or teachers say. Anything. No saying is holy in the sense that it becomes sacred and thus exempt from questioning. No claim has the right to be accepted if someone asks for it to be documented. * No cult roles or sex roles. The students should not be encouraged (verbally or nonverbally) to act a certain way or dress a certain way. One of the coolest things ever said about the Rama students came from the staff of the Bodhi Tree Bookstore in L.A. They'd seen *everything*, because the seekers from every tradition ever known all came to buy books at their store. And they'd grown adept at nailing which path any customer followed, just by watching them. It became a kind of game for them, and they rarely missed. The only students they couldn't nail were the folks who studied with Rama, because they were all different. In a similar vein, there should ideally be no perceived status associated with one's sex -- men and women should be treated pretty much the same. * No restrictions on thinking or action. No Thou shalt not see other teachers. See who you bloody want. No Thou shalt not read Off The Program books. There should be no program to be off of. People should be encouraged to treat their curiosity about other spiritual teachers or teachings as what it is -- a desire to learn more. * Parties. Really. Too many spiritual trips have gatherings that can only be described as SERIOUS. They're gathering to meditate together, or chant together, or hear a dharma talk together, or have a celebration that isn't one. My ideal spiritual trip would be more like the better days of the Rama trip -- we'd go out to movies, to dinner, to places of power, and to discos. We'd actually (Buck, look away) DANCE. And we'd have actual parties, at which the only spiritual objective was to have FUN. It gives more of a community feeling to the community. * Road Trips. Every so often, the entire group would just Get The Fuck Out Of Dodge, and take their act on the road. It could be a day trip to a nearby place of worship or power, or longer trips overnight to cool places. Taking the group consciousness out of its normal (and thus ignored) environment can do wonders for sparking spiritual experience. * No shakti myths. Even if the teacher or teachers have some phwam! and can shift other people's states of attention and get them high, IMO this ability is better presented as a form of recognition rather than a form of transmission. If the teacher is able to say, Look, I understand that you're getting high from all this, but it's not me doing it. It's the universe. You're just recognizing what is always already present because it may be a little more lively in me, that teacher might not be as likely to fall prey to the pitfalls of ego, and the students
