Look, both of you can't help yourselves ;-)
--- jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bronte Baxter
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Flanegin wrote:
Yep, from the standpoint of dualistic, relative
life, multiple
problems are seen, and must be solved, as they
should be, living a
dynamic and responsible life. From the non dual
experience of
Being
though, even the change is seen and embraced as
perfect. The union
of the one with the many is a profound paradox
that is naturally
accepted and lived when self realization becomes
permanent, and
not
until. Unity and diversity become indistiguishable
from one
another.
When those who comment on such things write that
everything is
perfect, the only way a mind embracing duality can
comprehend such
a
statement is in terms of inertia (keep everything
as it is,
relative
to a specific moment), or rationalization (it
happened, therefore
it
is perfect, even though I know damned well it
isn't), neither of
which is the intended perspective. :-)
Bronte writes:
Jim, with all due respect, what this sounds like
is You can't
possibly know the truth because you aren't on my
level.
That was not my intention at all. I didn't accuse
you of anything,
nor talk down to you. I am describing my
experience.Period.:-)
Not that you are the first to pull that punch. It's
a typical end-of-
argument comment that gurus are renowned for.
Translation: Don't
question what we say. Don't question the view of the
ultimate
reality we are handing you. We are at the top of the
mountain, and
you aren't. You speak from the perspective of
delusion. Your
position has no merit in terms of ultimate truth,
because you are
obviously way too unevolved to comment on the
subject.
Question what I say all you want. Disagree
vehemently, if you like.
I am not a guru, or pulling a punch. I don't know if
you are deluded
or not, and I am not judging you on that or any
other basis.:-)
And why do you assume I am too unevolved? Simply
because I don't
agree with your pespective.
My perspective is that both the dual and the non
dual spheres of
life are enjoyed together. If you don't experience
that, I am not
saying anything one way or another. It is either
your experience or
it isn't.:-)
Your argument is vicious circle, kept alive by your
assumption of
superior knowledge and experience.
What argument? How can I have an argument if I am
not arguing?:-)
I am not going to try to weight my argument by
startung a one-up-you
game with you comparing the profundity of our
spiritual experiences.
I agree that would be pointless. To begin with, what
is a spiritual
experience? Its an all or nothing proposition with
me.:-)
I will just say this: the vision I have of reality
is based not
just on reason and relative experience, but very
much on spiritual
experience -- my own, and that of many people who
don't share the
assumptions of the Indian tradition. It IS possible
to experience
nonduality, the union of all life, in great and
blissful clarity and
in the same sublime moment perceive clearly that the
universe is a
play in progress, with unsuccessful scenes that have
to be
rewritten, similar to the analogy of the cake baker
in my earlier
email to Judy on this subject.
That is exactly my experience too; that I live my
life dynamically,
waking up around 6AM to go into work, work my tail
off for about 9.5
hours five days a week, making decisions and
managing a department
at an extermely fast paced and challenging
environment, and then
come home, attend to whatever chores I must, spend
time with my
family, and off again the next day. I am anything
but sluggishly
satisfied with the status quo, and at the same time
remaining
established in absolute silence. Just as it should
be; perfect.:-)
So whose cosmic reality is right: yours or ours?
I don't believe
we can decide that by trying to determine which
group of seers is
more evolved. Because expectation and teachings
we've studied and
accepted very much color our experience of higher
states. Instead,
we need to rely on reason, on objective analysis, on
consideration
of all relevant data from experience, both the
relative and the
nondual kind. The four blind men have to maintain
open minds and
respect each other's experience in order to arrive
at total truth
about the elephant. What happens when one says,
Guy, your
description of this animal is just not holistic like
mine is. When
you get my superior level of perception, you'll
experience the
animal the way I do. Not too conducive to
productive dialog, that
attitude, is it?
I don't know what your cosmic reality is. Sometimes
it sounds like
you are saying the same thing I am, and other times
it doesn't. I am
not
