Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The unreasonable price of TM instruction
So buy one, get one free doesn't work? I'll have to go tell the chain stores that because they sure advertise that way a lot. :-D But as I've argued here you don't charge for the technique but for your time which could be spent doing something else to pay for your rice bowl. But teaching some folks for free would be giving back. On 09/01/2011 09:54 PM, m2smart4u2000 wrote: It's my opinion that American's just don't value anything that is free. Everythings value is determined by price and hence the high price of TM --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitunoozguru@... wrote: I'll teach any homeless person for free (if they are stable enough). But it won't be TM but the meditation technique I been given to teach through my tantra studies. It included shaktipat for the jump start. On 08/30/2011 02:39 PM, seekliberation wrote: I know well over a dozen close friends and family very intrigued by TM, but $1500 is way out of question. $375 would be great, even $500 is reasonable. I'm sure many TMer's know many friends that are in the same boat. Apparently, either TMO or MMY are not good at math. Perhaps some people in America could drop $1500 easily, but there are also many working class people who are barely making ends meet who could benefit a lot from TM. The $1500 price, IMO, is putting it out of reach for those who get their hands dirty for a living. A basic working class man/woman who makes 40k per year who wants a decent place to stay and medical care along with children/family, wellyou can kiss a $1500 spiritual technique goodbye. This whole 'Top-Down' theory is what I think partly inspired the ridiculous price. The idea was to get rich, wealthy, powerful and famous people to practice, and all of a sudden it would trickle down, just like Reaganomics. Hopefully the whole DLF thing works out. But I doubt we're going to have a mass population take up the practice given the current price. seekliberation --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaigLEnglish5@ wrote: Everyone constantly harps on how much TM costs. They are full of it. From the David Lynch website: Funding Target: $75,000 per year for each specially trained teacher to provide an intensive 12-month program of individualized instruction and follow-up in the Transcendental Meditation program for 200 at-risk veterans. Total funding: 50 trainers to serve 10,000 at-risk veterans: $3.75 million. That's $75,000/200 = $375 per vet including initial instruction and regular checking in a formal setting for 12 months. Nice. With the huge success the DLF is having around the world this could easily by the new policy adopted by the TMO ! http://dlf.tv/2010/annie/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The unreasonable price of TM instruction
On 09/02/2011 04:24 AM, turquoiseb wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoisebno_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seekliberationseekliberation@ wrote: My suggestion wasn't that TM be taught for free. My opinion was a fair price would be around $300-500. $1500 may not be a lot for an engineer with a Master's degree, or someone born in a wealthy family, but it's a hell of a lot to someone working in a factory or doing landscaping. Hear hear. Heck, even *I* would stand up and cheer if the TMO repriced its products into the range that seekliberation suggests above. That would probably be considered a fair price. And if the TMO then got rid of this recertification nonsense and allowed all past teachers to teach, it might allow some of these teachers to teach full-time. Based on the old 50/50 split with National, I supported myself fine with an even lower course fee. And that was pre-Merv. Such a move might also go far to dispel the impression that their current marketing approach (Target the rich) might be more aimed at soliciting big donations from Fat Cats than it is in actually spreading the benefits of meditation. The current policy actually discriminates. If you're rich, you can afford the prices, so TM is available to you. If you're a low- income kid or a prisoner or a soldier with PTSD or one of the lucky students at the DLF schools, TM is available to you. But if you're in that vast majority in between, at the current price TM is not really available to you. Rudely following up on my own post, what I would suggest if the TMO was so foolhardy as to adopt this policy, is a short, two-week-maximum, *not for profit* Recertification course. In it, TM teachers could brush up on the puja, the checking procedure, the material to be covered in the seven days of instruction, etc. In my ideal Recertification course, no time would be spent telling these teachers what TMO courses or advanced techniques to promote to their students, and what Party Line they should adhere to. That would be up to their own judgment. Admittedly, in this dream universe the Recertification course classes might occasionally be interrupted by pigs flying through the room, but one can always dream. :-) It would be a small room. Many ex-teachers probably have little interest in teaching again. Of those that do many have moved on to other paths and methods and would have no interest either. It's the old fool me once, fool me twice thang.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The unreasonable price of TM instruction
I hear that back in the '60s the fee for initiation was one week's salary.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The unreasonable price of TM instruction
Target the unemployed...of course, there is no way that the unemployed are going to spend 3 to 500 dollars on a meditation technique. You might have to offer it for a pittance, but if the goal is to uplift the planet (and you want thousands of flyers by 2022), than this will be consistent with the mission. There could be many benefits to both the meditator individually and perhaps the planet (certainly the weather) and the unemployed are feeling desperate and have the time. --- On Fri, 9/2/11, John jr_...@yahoo.com wrote: From: John jr_...@yahoo.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: The unreasonable price of TM instruction To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, September 2, 2011, 5:49 PM --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@... wrote: I'll teach any homeless person for free (if they are stable enough). But it won't be TM but the meditation technique I been given to teach through my tantra studies. It included shaktipat for the jump start. It would be a waste of time trying to teach someone who is not interested or motivated about the benefits and implications of meditation.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The unreasonable price of TM instruction
On Aug 30, 2011, at 8:54 PM, sparaig wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote: On Aug 30, 2011, at 7:10 PM, sparaig wrote: David Orme-Johnson's rebuttal to the study that graphic is from. I have no idea if what David says is valid, truthful, or whatever, but this is the other side of the story, at least: http://www.TruthAboutTM.org/truth/TMResearch/ RebuttalofAHRQReview/index.cfm It was no doubt devastating for him and the other researcher TB's. Unless, of course, the criticisms leveled at the study are valid. DId you read any of them? Years ago. At this point TM researchers have established a bad reputation for themselves and a long running trend of deception and fraud. We shouldn't look to them for honest research any longer, it's just too long of a trend to be able to trust them. In fact the only place TM research is accepted, is in non-English speaking countries that are removed from the criticisms leveled at the org, which are primarily in English. Their ignorance is their short-lived bliss. The current Wikipedia entry for TM says it nicely, as it was reviewed by Medical Doctors trained in research review: Independent systematic reviews have not found health benefits for TM beyond relaxation and health education.[12][68][69] It is difficult to determine definitive effects of meditation practices in healthcare, as the quality of research has design limitations and a lack of methodological rigor.[12][70][71] Part of this difficulty is because studies have the potential for bias due to the connection of researchers to the TM organization, and enrollment of subjects with a favorable opinion of TM.[72][73]
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The unreasonable price of TM instruction
Just checking... --- On Tue, 8/30/11, sparaig lengli...@cox.net wrote: From: sparaig lengli...@cox.net Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: The unreasonable price of TM instruction To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, August 30, 2011, 8:38 PM Blinks rapidly several times... Not that I have heard of... L. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Denise Evans dmevans365@... wrote: Not on the good will of the studentson the good will of the enlightened sharing the knowledge with the students. Â For example, a coordinated organization of vacations to sequentially teach. Â Mormons and the evangelical's require/encourage missions of their members to spread the word. Â Is not the TM organization a religion really with an intact belief system and principles for worship and faith (as defined by Maharishi and exercised by its members) based (perhaps loosely) on the Hindu religion?Â
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The unreasonable price of TM instruction
On Aug 31, 2011, at 9:56 AM, sparaig wrote: THose same reviews say the same about virtually all other meditation studies. L Fortunately much non-TM meditation research continues to improve. In fact classes to train young scientists in this science continue to sell out, as do the Mind and Life conferences.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The unreasonable price of TM instruction
And training TM teachers is inefficient. All that could easily be done in one month. And as it is they just turn you into a robot that does preprogrammed things. There is really no knowledge of how it all works imparted. The teaching would do well at around $125 as a weekend workshop which people could more easily work into their schedules. The TMO lives in the world of the past. And then there is the issue that the techniques aren't unique at all so why pay that much more for them. On 08/30/2011 10:46 AM, curtisdeltablues wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaigLEnglish5@... wrote: Everyone constantly harps on how much TM costs. They are full of it. I'm pretty sure the harping concerns the public's $2,500 price which pretty much takes it out of the zone for someone who wants to try it but isn't convinced $2,500 worth upfront. You are running numbers for a fund raising target. If they offered TM to everyone for $375 you would probably hear less harping. From the David Lynch website: Funding Target: $75,000 per year for each specially trained teacher to provide an intensive 12-month program of individualized instruction and follow-up in the Transcendental Meditation program for 200 at-risk veterans. Total funding: 50 trainers to serve 10,000 at-risk veterans: $3.75 million. That's $75,000/200 = $375 per vet including initial instruction and regular checking in a formal setting for 12 months.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The unreasonable price of TM instruction
On 08/30/2011 12:26 PM, sparaig wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitunoozguru@... wrote: And training TM teachers is inefficient. All that could easily be done in one month. And as it is they just turn you into a robot that does preprogrammed things. There is really no knowledge of how it all works imparted. The teaching would do well at around $125 as a weekend workshop which people could more easily work into their schedules. The TMO lives in the world of the past. There's a waiting list of one million (1,000,000!!!) kids in Rio de Janeiro alone to learn TM through that city's public school system. Tell me that the TMO is out of business. And I bet they have NO idea of what they've been signed up for. And the phrase lives in the world of the past means out of touch not out of business. There are car dealers that should be out of business but continue to scam the public. And then there is the issue that the techniques aren't unique at all so why pay that much more for them. All the former TM people accuse TMers of being in denial about TM. Please find me published peer-reviewed research on pure consciousness, defined in any way, shape or form, found in other meditation practices. Thanks. L You mean like the phony peer reviewed (probably bribed) research like the TMO has? Who needs it? Biological androids? The proof is in the pudding. After all it's just meditation.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The unreasonable price of TM instruction
On 08/30/2011 01:10 PM, sparaig wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitunoozguru@... wrote: On 08/30/2011 12:26 PM, sparaig wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitunoozguru@ wrote: And training TM teachers is inefficient. All that could easily be done in one month. And as it is they just turn you into a robot that does preprogrammed things. There is really no knowledge of how it all works imparted. The teaching would do well at around $125 as a weekend workshop which people could more easily work into their schedules. The TMO lives in the world of the past. There's a waiting list of one million (1,000,000!!!) kids in Rio de Janeiro alone to learn TM through that city's public school system. Tell me that the TMO is out of business. And I bet they have NO idea of what they've been signed up for. And the phrase lives in the world of the past means out of touch not out of business. There are car dealers that should be out of business but continue to scam the public. The waiting list situation came about after 7,000 kids in several schools in Rio learned TM via the David Lynch Foundation. The results have been so positive that the school system has requested that all 1,000 schools be included in the DLF's Quiet Time Program. And then there is the issue that the techniques aren't unique at all so why pay that much more for them. All the former TM people accuse TMers of being in denial about TM. Please find me published peer-reviewed research on pure consciousness, defined in any way, shape or form, found in other meditation practices. Thanks. L You mean like the phony peer reviewed (probably bribed) research like the TMO has? Who needs it? Biological androids? The proof is in the pudding. After all it's just meditation. You have no proof that any of the research was peer-reviewed via bribes. In fact, the most anyone has ever accused the TMO of was selectively reporting only positive results, and that particular practice, while possibly/probably more likely amongst True Believer researchers, has always been noted as a problem with any research by anyone. Researchers of any stripe, if they are testing their own pet theory, are prone to simply not bother to publish research that doesn't support their theory. Sometimes it is an entirely innocent process: they didn't get a result so they didn't publish and they tossed the theory out the window can came up with a new one to test. Sometimes, it might be totally insidious, as with tobacco companies and research that proves that tobacco smoking has no ill-effects. When TM researchers fail to publish null-finding research it is probably somewhere in between the two extremes. HOWEVER, when TM researchers do bunches of private pilot studies, then solicit non-TMing researchers to collaborate on studies funded by the NIH, you can be sure that the non-TMing researchers are going to ensure the research is published, regardless of the findings. That is the LAW: publicly funded research must be published. And if the study is done so shittily that no-one will publish it, then the NIH probably won't deal with such researchers again, anyway. TM researchers don't seek out non-meditating collaborators for studies on TM's effects on something until they are 100% positive that the specific research will be positive because they have done enough private pilot studies to be confident of the outcome before they look for the collaborators. L They're just beej mantras, Lawson. Nothing really unique about them. Get over it. You could get the same results or better with other techniques but no one else wants to spend the money to do so. Only corporate meditation companies do so. :-D
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The unreasonable price of TM instruction
On 08/30/2011 01:43 PM, sparaig wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitunoozguru@... wrote: [...] They're just beej mantras, Lawson. Nothing really unique about them. Get over it. You could get the same results or better with other techniques but no one else wants to spend the money to do so. Only corporate meditation companies do so. :-D MMY never claimed that the TM mantras were unique. What he claimed was: 1) meditation practice, as taught in India, was generally very distorted. Even the practice taught in monasteries was somewhat distorted; 2) the practice, as taught in monasteries, always used mantras suitable for monks, not householders. Are you sure you were a TM teacher at some point? These points are very much the TM canon as taught be every active TM teacher I ever met. L Both a teacher and a governor. Many of us questioned those points. Whether or not one has a reclusive nature has more to do with their karma than any mantra used. I've met many reclusive TMers and many householders practicing other techniques which might be called monastic with successful careers and families. As a certain FFL'er would say go figure. ;-)
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The unreasonable price of TM instruction
I'll teach any homeless person for free (if they are stable enough). But it won't be TM but the meditation technique I been given to teach through my tantra studies. It included shaktipat for the jump start. On 08/30/2011 02:39 PM, seekliberation wrote: I know well over a dozen close friends and family very intrigued by TM, but $1500 is way out of question. $375 would be great, even $500 is reasonable. I'm sure many TMer's know many friends that are in the same boat. Apparently, either TMO or MMY are not good at math. Perhaps some people in America could drop $1500 easily, but there are also many working class people who are barely making ends meet who could benefit a lot from TM. The $1500 price, IMO, is putting it out of reach for those who get their hands dirty for a living. A basic working class man/woman who makes 40k per year who wants a decent place to stay and medical care along with children/family, wellyou can kiss a $1500 spiritual technique goodbye. This whole 'Top-Down' theory is what I think partly inspired the ridiculous price. The idea was to get rich, wealthy, powerful and famous people to practice, and all of a sudden it would trickle down, just like Reaganomics. Hopefully the whole DLF thing works out. But I doubt we're going to have a mass population take up the practice given the current price. seekliberation --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaigLEnglish5@ wrote: Everyone constantly harps on how much TM costs. They are full of it. From the David Lynch website: Funding Target: $75,000 per year for each specially trained teacher to provide an intensive 12-month program of individualized instruction and follow-up in the Transcendental Meditation program for 200 at-risk veterans. Total funding: 50 trainers to serve 10,000 at-risk veterans: $3.75 million. That's $75,000/200 = $375 per vet including initial instruction and regular checking in a formal setting for 12 months. Nice. With the huge success the DLF is having around the world this could easily by the new policy adopted by the TMO ! http://dlf.tv/2010/annie/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The unreasonable price of TM instruction
On Aug 30, 2011, at 6:00 PM, sparaig wrote: A pretty picture with no attribution, doesn't prove anything at all. I hope you realize this and are merely being a troll. Otherwise, you're really far worse off than I thought. Pop a nitro and then you can find it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transcendental_Meditation -scroll down and keep your eyes on the right hand side. It's been well known and much discussed for a long time now, that TM is the worst meditation technique at lowering blood pressure. Even regular mantra meditation did a better job.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The unreasonable price of TM instruction
On Aug 30, 2011, at 7:10 PM, sparaig wrote: David Orme-Johnson's rebuttal to the study that graphic is from. I have no idea if what David says is valid, truthful, or whatever, but this is the other side of the story, at least: http://www.TruthAboutTM.org/truth/TMResearch/RebuttalofAHRQReview/index.cfm It was no doubt devastating for him and the other researcher TB's.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The unreasonable price of TM instruction
If the intention of TM is global world peace within the context of achieving and operating within higher planes of consciousness, than one would think that it would be free. The target population should be everyone if the goal is to raise the awareness of our global family, so to speak. IMHO, the organization should survive on donations (voluntary, not coerced) which I'm guessing would come as the benefits to individuals, corporations, institutions, political systems, the environment, and society at large started to roll on in. The issue for me is the fee at all, given the said mission statement. If it's all that, than it should be taught from a completely enlightened altruistic volunteer base..in keeping with the altruistic mission. Unfortunately, it's being sold like all connections to God are that have gone the corporate, commercial way. It is corrupted and in reality sells duality (us and them) instead of unity. It should be shared, not sold. And, as with all such messages, there are some good principlesthe same good principles that are in almost every religious and philosophical teaching out there in the world. These principles are not rocket science and there is no new information...just new and innovative ways to sell it. On the other side, perhaps if it were not marketed with these exclusionary precepts geared towards the individual ego, it would not be valued as worthwhile and embraced by those that practice. --- On Tue, 8/30/11, whynotnow7 whynotn...@yahoo.com wrote: From: whynotnow7 whynotn...@yahoo.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: The unreasonable price of TM instruction To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, August 30, 2011, 3:28 PM Sometimes you can find former TM teachers who have decided to teach the technique for less than the official price, but it is still TM. A friend of mine learned that way. Used to be a guy here in the SF Bay Area, but he went to India and hasn't been back. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seekliberation seekliberation@... wrote: Great post, now all we have to do is try to get this experience out to more people. Kind of hard to do at the current price. Does anyone know if there are any significant talks about reducing the price throughout America? seekliberation --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, whynotnow7 whynotnow7@ wrote: Wherever the TM Mantras came from, and the subtle instructions for their use, must have been from a very ancient consciousness - from before time, as corny as that sounds. Otherwise the technique would not transcend itself, and eventually become an all time soundless vibration, no matter who the person. The mantras would remain mantras, and we would keep on seeking the goal of establishing silence within ourselves through the practice of TM. Instead, there is the possibility with TM to have the mantra continue silently, to find it as a quiet current of feeling throughout each day and night vs. practicing it 20 min. 2x a day. Anything ever present like the air we breathe, we stop thinking about, and the same way with the TM mantra. After awhile, the practice just drops away and the mantra becomes ever present, still effortlessly, though a lot more subtle than doing TM. No need to practice anymore. So, if the mantra transcending itself can occur with TM with many different people, it must have a common resonance within each of us. Must go back a long way. Old stuff. Like Maharishi said, There's nothing new under the sun. This is so beautiful Jim, thanks for posting this ! You seem to write from your own experience, am I right ? What else is there to say than; Jai Guru Dev
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The unreasonable price of TM instruction
Not on the good will of the studentson the good will of the enlightened sharing the knowledge with the students. For example, a coordinated organization of vacations to sequentially teach. Mormons and the evangelical's require/encourage missions of their members to spread the word. Is not the TM organization a religion really with an intact belief system and principles for worship and faith (as defined by Maharishi and exercised by its members) based (perhaps loosely) on the Hindu religion? --- On Tue, 8/30/11, sparaig lengli...@cox.net wrote: From: sparaig lengli...@cox.net Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: The unreasonable price of TM instruction To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, August 30, 2011, 6:02 PM Well, as I pointed out, the David Lynch Foundation's pilot project on 7,000 students in Rio de Janeiro is so successful that the school system has asked all the students in its one thousand schools (one million kids) to be put on the waiting list to learn. An organization comprised entirely of volunteers who survive off of good will donations by their students, won't be able to teach one million kids in one city, don't you agree? L. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Denise Evans dmevans365@... wrote: If the intention of TM is global world peace within the context of achieving and operating within higher planes of consciousness, than one would think that it would be free. Â The target population should be everyone if the goal is to raise the awareness of our global family, so to speak. IMHO, the organization should survive on donations (voluntary, not coerced) which I'm guessing would come as the benefits to individuals, corporations, institutions, political systems, the environment, and society at large started to roll on in. The issue for me is the fee at all, given the said mission statement. Â If it's all that, than it should be taught from a completely enlightened altruistic volunteer base..in keeping with the altruistic mission. Â Unfortunately, it's being sold like all connections to God are that have gone the corporate, commercial way. Â It is corrupted and in reality sells duality (us and them) instead of unity. Â It should be shared, not sold. Â And, as with all such messages, there are some good principlesthe same good principles that are in almost every religious and philosophical teaching out there in the world. Â These principles are not rocket science and there is no new information...just new and innovative ways to sell it. Â On the other side, perhaps if it were not marketed with these exclusionary precepts geared towards the individual ego, it would not be valued as worthwhile and embraced by those that practice. Â Â --- On Tue, 8/30/11, whynotnow7 whynotnow7@... wrote: From: whynotnow7 whynotnow7@... Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: The unreasonable price of TM instruction To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, August 30, 2011, 3:28 PM Â Sometimes you can find former TM teachers who have decided to teach the technique for less than the official price, but it is still TM. A friend of mine learned that way. Used to be a guy here in the SF Bay Area, but he went to India and hasn't been back. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seekliberation seekliberation@ wrote: Great post, now all we have to do is try to get this experience out to more people. Kind of hard to do at the current price. Does anyone know if there are any significant talks about reducing the price throughout America? seekliberation --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, whynotnow7 whynotnow7@ wrote: Wherever the TM Mantras came from, and the subtle instructions for their use, must have been from a very ancient consciousness - from before time, as corny as that sounds. Otherwise the technique would not transcend itself, and eventually become an all time soundless vibration, no matter who the person. The mantras would remain mantras, and we would keep on seeking the goal of establishing silence within ourselves through the practice of TM. Instead, there is the possibility with TM to have the mantra continue silently, to find it as a quiet current of feeling throughout each day and night vs. practicing it 20 min. 2x a day. Anything ever present like the air we breathe, we stop thinking about, and the same way with the TM mantra. After awhile, the practice just drops away and the mantra becomes ever present, still effortlessly, though a lot more subtle than doing TM. No need to practice anymore. So, if the mantra transcending itself can occur
