Re: [FairfieldLife] Shudra shunning at MUM was my tipping point (Re: Vaj the honest and forthright)
My rant towards Edg was based on his extreme victim mentality. I'm not denying, minimizing or dismissing the behavior of the TMO. I certainly know exactly what he is talking about. But to present this badge begging scenario as if he was so wronged and humiliated places all power with the TMO and none with him. If someone is abusing you, until you decide to change your behavior in relationship to them, they will continue to abuse you. Sal, I respect your posts a lot, so please let me know why you think my and other's post pointing out Edg's victim mentality are heavy handed. I thought my slave analogy expressed the interpersonal dynamic quite well. --- On Tue, 2/24/09, Sal Sunshine salsunsh...@lisco.com wrote: From: Sal Sunshine salsunsh...@lisco.com Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Shudra shunning at MUM was my tipping point (Re: Vaj the honest and forthright) To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, February 24, 2009, 12:02 AM On Feb 23, 2009, at 10:54 PM, lurkernomore20002000 wrote: Edg, for the life of me, I can't figure out why everyone is busting your chops on this. I can relate to this story at face value. Makes sense to me. Who wants to be humiliated, or shamed, even in a small way. But no, there's got to be slave issues, or whiner issues. Let me throw this arm chair psychology back on them. You've got Peter, Feste, and Richard coming after you. How many kids do they have between them. Could it be.0. How many kids do WE have between us. Like 7. These other guys don't have the foggiest about what it's like to take on the responsibilites of something like this. Let's see how they fare in this regard. Probably be weeping like little school girls. Ya, we know what a real man is. Hell yea we do! Right on, lurk...I thought the slave stuff was a bit much myself. The TMO was good at humiliating people...Edg's response was IMOtotally warranted. Sal
Re: [FairfieldLife] Shudra shunning at MUM was my tipping point (Re: Vaj the honest and forthright)
On Feb 24, 2009, at 4:07 AM, Peter wrote: My rant towards Edg was based on his extreme victim mentality. I'm not denying, minimizing or dismissing the behavior of the TMO. I certainly know exactly what he is talking about. But to present this badge begging scenario as if he was so wronged and humiliated places all power with the TMO and none with him. If someone is abusing you, until you decide to change your behavior in relationship to them, they will continue to abuse you. Sal, I respect your posts a lot, so please let me know why you think my and other's post pointing out Edg's victim mentality are heavy handed. I thought my slave analogy expressed the interpersonal dynamic quite well. Peter, thanks and I didn't mean to pick on you...your posts usually hit the spot and make me think about things in ways I hadn't before, plus you contribute far more wisdom here than I do. I simply thought Edg was expressing healthy anger and still trying to come to terms with something difficult, and that the master/slave dynamic really didn't apply, or if it did than I thought it was fairly clear he *was* trying to break free...as many of us still are. I guess I just felt a *real* victim probably wouldn't have even brought it up. Anyway, just a few thoughts...thanks for calling my attention to how I was coming across. Sal
Re: [FairfieldLife] Shudra shunning at MUM was my tipping point (Re: Vaj the honest and forthright)
On Feb 24, 2009, at 9:30 AM, feste37 wrote: Hey Lurk, not sure how relevant your response is. Duveyoung claimed that he was forced to beg in public, which is a ridiculous claim. Who forced him? Did some TMO henchmen come to his door and frogmarch him to the capitol and force him to beg in public? I don't think so. His anger at the TMO is simply displaced anger at himself for being such a loser that he couldn't afford even the modest amount charged for a dome fee. Yeah, that's right feste, well all know the inherant worth of an individual depends on their bank account, right? And it's not a modest amount when you have kids to support. Sal
Re: [FairfieldLife] Shudra shunning at MUM was my tipping point (Re: Vaj the honest and forthright)
On Tue, Feb 24, 2009 at 10:00 AM, enlightened_dawn11 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: ...cue the violins... Or join the club. I hung out with the well heeled citizens who donated money, facilities and time and we were treated like shit. Flew all the way from Alaska to FF for a Christmas WPA. Was told /on Christmas/ that I needed another recommendation to go on the course. Showed up to a residence course in another state only to arrive at an empty facility: the course had been cancelled. Of course there's the famous This is the course office. Our hours are 1 PM to 4 PM Central Time Monday thru Thursday at 2:30 PM at a time when there weren't mobiles and there are some places still where getting a phone with long distance or international access isn't that easy. And being talked down to. I have forgiven these people. I believe that the lack of real world experience had something to do with it. That plus they were living in their own cult, like the lady on the Taste of Utopia course check in who was practicing the Mother Divine witnessing while checking us in. It has been very pleasant sitting back here listening to the tales of woe about treatment from other people and how people here treated other people fuck you, I was in this dorm first. Nice to see people got their comeuppance because IMO they were part of the problem, not part of the solution. But that's over, done and gone.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Shudra shunning at MUM was my tipping point (Re: Vaj the honest and forthright)
Edg...and you still haven't gotten over it. Those terrible people in administration! Hey, I get your point, but they wanted money and why the fuck shouldn't you pay money just like everybody else? Man up and get your shit together and cough-up the bucks. Stop seeing yourself as weak and special. Mommy's suckling breast left years ago. You are far from a shudra why do you want us to see you as one? From whence has this blemish come at this untimely hour --- On Mon, 2/23/09, Duveyoung no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: From: Duveyoung no_re...@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Shudra shunning at MUM was my tipping point (Re: Vaj the honest and forthright) To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, February 23, 2009, 12:27 PM When I was poor and wanting to still be able to do program in the domes, I had to ask them to let me in for free or at least give me a discount on the dome fee. You'd think that the TMO was scoring a point for having a process for folks like me that involved getting some personal information and then deciding if the candidate warranted help. Seems straightforward and Christian of the TMO, eh? But here's how it worked out in real life: 1. You stand in line forever to get to the person at the main table. 2. You ask, softly and discreetly because you're embarrassed to have to ask, about the chance of getting a free badge. 3. The person at the table speaks loudly: Oh, if you cannot afford the fee go to that table over there. 4. Everyone in the room looks to see who's being sent to the shudra table. 5. You go over to that table and they grill ya about if you've asked all your relatives etc. for help in paying the dome fee, whether you might be getting money in the future and would you then pay back the discounting's difference, whether you're active in the local center, etc. Yes, that really is what they did to me. 6. Anyone in the room could hear my conversation with the person at the shudra table. See why I stopped asking for help? In a cult where even an extra dollar a year income could notch you a step higher in the cult's esteem, I was unable to endure the misery of begging to be with God's Holy Crew. Pride -- in this instance -- was my best friend, because, my pride wouldn't let me put myself in the power of these vicious bastards again. I think that being force to beg in public was my tipping point -- from that time onwards, my first interpretation of anything the TMO was doing was to think that some small minded unenlightened bureaucrat was plying a vile intent. Edg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradh...@... wrote: On Feb 23, 2009, at 9:11 AM, Richard J. Williams wrote: Curtis wrote: When India elects a Sudra as their leader they can brag too. There are no 'sudras', Curtis - you're just perpetuating the myth like you were trained to do. But in fact, almost all of India's leaders have been dark-skinned. According to friends who worked on staff at MIU for very low wages, and supposedly to get on course, i.e. pay for the TM-Sidhi course, they were treated like shudras, like lesser-evolved people, who shouldn't be touched or engaged. The idea, they felt, was that more evolved people would naturally receive the support of nature and so they were naturally more prosperous. If you lacked money to the extent that you had to (essentially) beg to get on a course or be able to hang at MIU/ meditate in the domes, you were in effect (not only a slave of sorts), an untouchable. Or at least that's the way they felt they were treated. It's an unspoken caste system in the same sense that racism can be covert and engrained without necessarily needing out loud racial slurs or comments. Perhaps we should start calling it the apaurusheya-jati? To subscribe, send a message to: fairfieldlife-subscr...@yahoogroups.com Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!'Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [FairfieldLife] Shudra shunning at MUM was my tipping point (Re: Vaj the honest and forthright)
--- On Mon, 2/23/09, boo_lives boo_li...@yahoo.com wrote: Right on Edg. Don't let anyone who has had nothing to do with ffld or the tmo in decades or maybe never and who don't see what's still going on with real lives there everyday shut you up. If you don't see what's going on with real lives then it's easy to say just get over it all so we can go back to reminiscing about the good ol days at MIU in the 70s. Hey, I still do my program. I don't live in Ffld anymore, but the point still applies. You're waiting for the slave master to set you free. Guess what, it ain't going to happen. The slave stops being a slave the day he decides not to be a slave. Are there consequences, of course there are, but they don't matter anymore because you're not a slave anymore. I'm not condemning anyone for be a slave, but if you bitch and moan about how unfair the slave master is, you're still just being a slave. That's what a slave master does, its his dharma. To subscribe, send a message to: fairfieldlife-subscr...@yahoogroups.com Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!'Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [FairfieldLife] Shudra shunning at MUM was my tipping point (Re: Vaj the honest and forthright)
Yeah, for my whole first year class only me and two others weren't allowed the sidhis course and I knew it was gonna kill my relationship with my girlfriend right then and it did. - Original Message - From: Duveyoung no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 11:27 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Shudra shunning at MUM was my tipping point (Re: Vaj the honest and forthright) When I was poor and wanting to still be able to do program in the domes, I had to ask them to let me in for free or at least give me a discount on the dome fee. You'd think that the TMO was scoring a point for having a process for folks like me that involved getting some personal information and then deciding if the candidate warranted help. Seems straightforward and Christian of the TMO, eh? But here's how it worked out in real life: 1. You stand in line forever to get to the person at the main table. 2. You ask, softly and discreetly because you're embarrassed to have to ask, about the chance of getting a free badge. 3. The person at the table speaks loudly: Oh, if you cannot afford the fee go to that table over there. 4. Everyone in the room looks to see who's being sent to the shudra table. 5. You go over to that table and they grill ya about if you've asked all your relatives etc. for help in paying the dome fee, whether you might be getting money in the future and would you then pay back the discounting's difference, whether you're active in the local center, etc. Yes, that really is what they did to me. 6. Anyone in the room could hear my conversation with the person at the shudra table. See why I stopped asking for help? In a cult where even an extra dollar a year income could notch you a step higher in the cult's esteem, I was unable to endure the misery of begging to be with God's Holy Crew. Pride -- in this instance -- was my best friend, because, my pride wouldn't let me put myself in the power of these vicious bastards again. I think that being force to beg in public was my tipping point -- from that time onwards, my first interpretation of anything the TMO was doing was to think that some small minded unenlightened bureaucrat was plying a vile intent. Edg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradh...@... wrote: On Feb 23, 2009, at 9:11 AM, Richard J. Williams wrote: Curtis wrote: When India elects a Sudra as their leader they can brag too. There are no 'sudras', Curtis - you're just perpetuating the myth like you were trained to do. But in fact, almost all of India's leaders have been dark-skinned. According to friends who worked on staff at MIU for very low wages, and supposedly to get on course, i.e. pay for the TM-Sidhi course, they were treated like shudras, like lesser-evolved people, who shouldn't be touched or engaged. The idea, they felt, was that more evolved people would naturally receive the support of nature and so they were naturally more prosperous. If you lacked money to the extent that you had to (essentially) beg to get on a course or be able to hang at MIU/ meditate in the domes, you were in effect (not only a slave of sorts), an untouchable. Or at least that's the way they felt they were treated. It's an unspoken caste system in the same sense that racism can be covert and engrained without necessarily needing out loud racial slurs or comments. Perhaps we should start calling it the apaurusheya-jati? To subscribe, send a message to: fairfieldlife-subscr...@yahoogroups.com Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!'Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [FairfieldLife] Shudra shunning at MUM was my tipping point (Re: Vaj the honest and forthright)
I agree. Krishna would bitch slap him! --- On Mon, 2/23/09, feste37 fest...@yahoo.com wrote: From: feste37 fest...@yahoo.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Shudra shunning at MUM was my tipping point (Re: Vaj the honest and forthright) To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, February 23, 2009, 3:48 PM Poor little whiner, determined to be a victim. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung no_re...@... wrote: When I was poor and wanting to still be able to do program in the domes, I had to ask them to let me in for free or at least give me a discount on the dome fee. You'd think that the TMO was scoring a point for having a process for folks like me that involved getting some personal information and then deciding if the candidate warranted help. Seems straightforward and Christian of the TMO, eh? But here's how it worked out in real life: 1. You stand in line forever to get to the person at the main table. 2. You ask, softly and discreetly because you're embarrassed to have to ask, about the chance of getting a free badge. 3. The person at the table speaks loudly: Oh, if you cannot afford the fee go to that table over there. 4. Everyone in the room looks to see who's being sent to the shudra table. 5. You go over to that table and they grill ya about if you've asked all your relatives etc. for help in paying the dome fee, whether you might be getting money in the future and would you then pay back the discounting's difference, whether you're active in the local center, etc. Yes, that really is what they did to me. 6. Anyone in the room could hear my conversation with the person at the shudra table. See why I stopped asking for help? In a cult where even an extra dollar a year income could notch you a step higher in the cult's esteem, I was unable to endure the misery of begging to be with God's Holy Crew. Pride -- in this instance -- was my best friend, because, my pride wouldn't let me put myself in the power of these vicious bastards again. I think that being force to beg in public was my tipping point -- from that time onwards, my first interpretation of anything the TMO was doing was to think that some small minded unenlightened bureaucrat was plying a vile intent. Edg To subscribe, send a message to: fairfieldlife-subscr...@yahoogroups.com Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!'Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [FairfieldLife] Shudra shunning at MUM was my tipping point (Re: Vaj the honest and forthright)
On Feb 23, 2009, at 10:54 PM, lurkernomore20002000 wrote: Edg, for the life of me, I can't figure out why everyone is busting your chops on this. I can relate to this story at face value. Makes sense to me. Who wants to be humiliated, or shamed, even in a small way. But no, there's got to be slave issues, or whiner issues. Let me throw this arm chair psychology back on them. You've got Peter, Feste, and Richard coming after you. How many kids do they have between them. Could it be.0. How many kids do WE have between us. Like 7. These other guys don't have the foggiest about what it's like to take on the responsibilites of something like this. Let's see how they fare in this regard. Probably be weeping like little school girls. Ya, we know what a real man is. Hell yea we do! Right on, lurk...I thought the slave stuff was a bit much myself. The TMO was good at humiliating people...Edg's response was IMO totally warranted. Sal
