Re: Fedora F's buttons
Nicu Buculei escribió: Gian Paolo Mureddu wrote: Regarding color management, I'd recommend you use the very latest snapshot of Scribus available from the OpenSuSE repo (there is a Fedora yum repo for it) because the one included in Fedora is quite outdated, and now largely unsupported (v 1.3.4) I know I am going to a tangent here, but can we get in touch somehow with our Scribus maintainer and get him to do an update? Actually I have filed a bug regarding this particular issue... https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=461196 There's been an answer, and hopefully we'll see better sync with upstream (also upstream provides a yum repository as well for latest SVN head, at the home_mrdocs repository, from OpenSuSE [http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/home:/mrdocs/]). ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: Fedora F's buttons
Clint Savage escribió: I do. I have done that before many times. I'll look into doing that on sunday. I assume you are referring to the fact that I need to make the images CMYK and making them pdfs so printers won't complain. I'm capable of doing that :) Thanks for the vote of confidence. Cheers, Clint You don't have to do that, actually... However Scribus SVG support is rather flaky and most of the time (except for really simple kosher SVG files) you will get an error stating that some features of the file were not supported. Also it tends to get the size wrong, not the actual size of the drawing, but rather it kind of adds an additional holding box to the drawing. My personal recommendation when handling graphics with Scribus would be to export to EPS and then import that into Scribus, or export to bitmap (with the added side effect of reduced quality and raster artifacts [pixelation]). Regarding color management, I'd recommend you use the very latest snapshot of Scribus available from the OpenSuSE repo (there is a Fedora yum repo for it) because the one included in Fedora is quite outdated, and now largely unsupported (v 1.3.4), then you may grab the package with ICC profiles off Adobe's download section and install one of those ICC profiles into scribus so you get a color managed window (it is NOT recommended to install a printer ICC profile into Scribus unless you *REALLY* need it and the target printer supports it). Then you can generate the desired PDF and you may even embed an ICC profile into it to ensure proper display/print, don't forget to select the desired target media when generating the PDF! my 2¢ ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: Fedora F's buttons
Clint Savage escribió: So I got bored today while giving an RHCT exam and while waiting at the airport. I made these buttons, let me know what you think... http://herlo.fedorapeople.org/art/fedora_four_fs_logo2.png http://herlo.fedorapeople.org/art/fedora_four_fs_logo3.png http://herlo.fedorapeople.org/art/fedora_four_fs_logo4.png Cheers, Clint Nice indeed, it would seem like #2 is the winner :) However, I like them all. Nice work indeed! ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: Fedora F's buttons
Máirín Duffy escribió: Hi Gian, Gian Paolo Mureddu wrote: Clint Savage escribió: I do. I have done that before many times. I'll look into doing that on sunday. I assume you are referring to the fact that I need to make the images CMYK and making them pdfs so printers won't complain. I'm capable of doing that :) Thanks for the vote of confidence. Cheers, Clint You don't have to do that, actually... Why don't you need to do it? The printers must have sent the cd and sleeve designs for Fedora 7 back and forth with me at least 20 times before they could do anything with them. They couldn't get the colors to come out right at all and eventually gave up (You'll note that the Fedora 7 discs are actually purple, not blue. That's why.) That was a nightmare and ever since I've used Scribus for setting up colors (definitely for Fedora 9 and I think Fedora 8's media artwork) and it just went so much more smoothly. So I do really think you have to do it, unless you know something I don't? :)? I wouldn't *DARE* to say I know something you don't, Mo ;) However in my experience (and that may very well too subjective) Scribus can pretty much represent all colors on screen through CMYK (kind of converting them on-the-fly, or so it would seem). I have also struggled for the longest time to get colors right on print-outs with Linux (any distro, pretty much any program). However since F8 (IIRC, or was it F7?) the inclusion of lcms has actually helped a lot for color management (still a bit rudimentary as it would seem you have to do it in a per-application basis instead of being applied to the X session, like Windows or Mac seem to do it [and they still have per-application settings]) However Scribus SVG support is rather flaky and most of the time (except for really simple kosher SVG files) you will get an error stating that some features of the file were not supported. Also it tends to get the size wrong, not the actual size of the drawing, but rather it kind of adds an additional holding box to the drawing. My personal recommendation when handling graphics with Scribus would be to export to EPS and then import that into Scribus, or export to bitmap (with the added side effect of reduced quality and raster artifacts [pixelation]). Regarding color management, I'd recommend you use the very latest snapshot of Scribus available from the OpenSuSE repo (there is a Fedora yum repo for it) because the one included in Fedora is quite outdated, and now largely unsupported (v 1.3.4), then you may grab the package with ICC profiles off Adobe's download section and install one of those ICC profiles into scribus so you get a color managed window (it is NOT recommended to install a printer ICC profile into Scribus unless you *REALLY* need it and the target printer supports it). Then you can generate the desired PDF and you may even embed an ICC profile into it to ensure proper display/print, don't forget to select the desired target media when generating the PDF! Is it effective to use the color profiles if your monitor isn't calibrated? (I honestly don't know but I wouldn't assume so which is why I don't bother with color profiles right now) I assume that doing the artwork first in Inkscape and then importing it into scribus and modifying the palette in Scribus to have the exact CMYK colors needed will ensure the colors come out right in the end since a CMYK value is a CMYK value (maybe not as reproducable as a spot color but more reliable than picking blindly based on what shows up on my monitor.) Past experience printing Fedora swag has shown this to be close enough / true enough that I'm comfortable with this method. The main problem with CMYK (again, at least in my experience) is that support for this color space in Inkscape is MORE than flaky, it would seem that color values wouldn't stick, that may be due to the fact that Inkscape follows as close as possible the SVG specification which IIRC only support SRGB, and Inkscape actually converts those SRGB color values to CMYK color space on-the-fly (or so I remember reading, albeit some time ago, on the Inkscape mailing list, most likely things have changed in 0.46, maybe I'll ask in the list again). I'm not sure if the color values are perfectly preserved when you import the vector graphics from Inkscape to Scribus (SVG, EPS or PS format), but I can tell you that *perceptually* speaking it would seem that colors you *see* on the screen (when you color manage Scribus, of course) indeed is the color you *get* (or very close) on the print out. This, though good, is a bit problematic, as you can't actually change the colors of the objects you import into Scribus and can only see the resulting colors as they may be printed, and any modifications imply that you have to go back to Inkscape, modify the color, and test again in Scribus (at least that's how I've done it, not the best way, though
Re: GIMP 2.6 packages
Nicu Buculei escribió: Rahul Sundaram wrote: RPM packages http://www.nabble.com/GIMP-2.6.0-for-Fedora-8-9-(Was:-Re:-ANNOUNCE:-GIMP-2.6.0)-p19815879.html I understand that I sound like a n00b, but I feel a bit uncomfortable about updating glib2 this way. Indeed. It'd be much better an official update, especially when you have into consideration the number of dependencies to build the package for say F8 x86_64 (or PPC) ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: Another Solar Update remaining F10 release tasks (volunteers needed!)
Nicu Buculei escribió: And I think it will work only on select AMD graphic cards. I think it is actually AMD and Intel graphics cards which support this (AFAIK mode setting was recently added to the ati driver, and it has been present for a longer time (since F9) on the Intel driver. Support is driver dependent rather than hardware dependent, but yeah, only a couple drivers currently support it. now we can have consistent look from very first time of boot to desktop. I think we have at last one mode change, from GRUB to Plymouth (that is, on supported cards). The way I understand this, is that there actually is a change from text (in end Grub uses the same graphics capabilities as the BIOS) to the kernel mode setting when the kernel loads (and before the rest of the services start), currently in any Fedora release you can somewhat see this transition if you set a VGA accelerated mode as a command line argument (such as vga=791 in F1 - F8 or vga=823 in F9, which causes the kernel to use a framebuffer of 1024x768 in size at 16-bit color depth), there is a brief print-out of the GRUB arguments for the selected while the kernel loads before you are presented with the graphics (the penguin(s) at the top-left corner) and smoother letters, bigger size, etc. I'm not all that familiar with GRUB2 and if would require the same kind of drivers as the mode setting feature of the kernel. My guess would be it wouldn't since it'd be running prior any kernel (and hence drivers) are loaded, so it may very well rely only on the VESA capabilities of the cards, but again, I don't know for certain... Will have to take a look. ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: Happy 5th Birthday banner - Italian version
Nicu Buculei escribió: Gian Paolo Mureddu wrote: I have done a translation of the banner to Spanish, following your banners as template. However, I don't seem to have the fonts you guys used to create the banner (on F9)... At any rate, I have used URW Gothic L in substitution, this is work in progress as I'll most likely use another font, just a quick prototype to see how it looks in Spanish. yum install -y mgopen-fonts Read more about this font and why we are using it here:http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Logo/UsageGuidelines#Complementary_Font Later today I'll be uploading the updated version... Strange, though that in PackageKit the description for the mgopen-fonts package is that of TrueType Greek fonts (no wonder why I did not have them installed when I installed additional fonts on this laptop) ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: Plymouth animated startup
Charlie Brej escribió: I added some shading to the invinXble theme [1]. And I had a bit of a go at creating solar flares[2] on the solar theme[3]. This still needs quite a bit of work and it doesn't look as nice as thee invinXble one. [1] http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~brejc8/temp/3.swf [3] http://www.crystalinks.com/solarflare105a.jpg [2] http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~brejc8/temp/4.swf I LOVE the solar animation!! Looks incredible! Very nice work. Now I'm eager to see this on F10 :-) ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: Plymouth animated startup
Charlie Brej escribió: David Nielsen wrote: 2008/9/13 Charlie Brej [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] In Fedora 10 there will be a new graphical startup program replacing RHGB[1]. Its called Plymouth and it starts even earlier than rhgb. You can see a demo of the current default fedora startup here[2]. The system works on plugins to allow different styles of splash screens. To play around with it I wrote a plugin which uses components of the InvinXble theme and animates them. You can see a video of this[3]. It is still work in progress but it does not seem too CPU intensive. I kept the plugin pretty general so it should be easy to change it to suit any theme. What I would like is some feedback as to whether something like this is desirable. [1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/BetterStartup [2] http://katzj.livejournal.com/432586.html [3] http://brej.org/test/plymouth_invx.mpg and http://brej.org/test/plymouth_invx.gif That is definitely sexy, I do have one comment though. The current plymouth splash has a progress bar, and as pretty as this is it doesn't tell us anything about the boot progress so a user might be tempted to think we stalled, any thoughts as to the need for such visual feedback?. Aside that I love it. - David I was planning adding a progress bar (not necessarily a bar). Because the process starts before any disks have been mounted, it makes a timed progress bar a little complicated. I think I have a solution but I will need agreement of the developers. The best way is probably to have an estimated 1 minute timer, and as soon as the root is mounted we read the target time from the disk. We then write the boot time to the disk when we are finished averaged over multiple runs. This would more suited to be within the core rather than the plugin. A lot of the callback structures are already there to support this. Only a suggestion, how about a blue-ish hue to on the Katana's blade as the boot progresses to give a sort of feedback? (instead of a progress bar as such, using the same logic that would apply to a progress bar), though I'm not sure how feasible it might be, especially considering graphics overlapping, added overhead, code involved, etc. ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: [Echo] git screencasts
Martin Sourada escribió: Hi, I've just recorded another screencast for the echo-icon-theme git repository how-to's. That makes two versions of the Setting up the git repository screencast (mkv+h264+ass subs and ogv+theora) and one version of Adding new icons to git [1]. As I am still new to this area I'd appreciate any feedback and suggestions what to do with the files next and which way is better - mkv+h264 or theora wherever (preferably in matroska as well) - and whether the subtitle commentary is desired. I also noticed that the ogv file causes a lot of problems, one being that rawhide totem complains of missing codecs, but plays it fine, another that mkvmerge fails to read the file and the same goes for avidemux. I tried renaming to ogm or ogg, and whereas both ogg and ogm fixes totem and enable nautilus to generate thumbnail, the other issues remain unchanged. It seems to me that the file header is incorrect. Since mplayer can play it, it is probably possible to fix these issues via mencoder, but I have zero experience with it. Any suggestions, ideas, advices? Thanks, Martin References: [1] http://mso.fedorapeople.org/screencasts/ PS: The matroska one was recorded with xvidcap (which however tends to freeze lately), re-encoded to h264 and put to matroska with avidemux, subtitles were done in subtitleeditor and merged with the video using mkvmerge-gui. The other two were recorded with gtk-recordmydesktop, no editing done. Everything was done in rawhide. So the Matroska is encoded into h264 or theora encapsulated into the mkv (would that even be possible to do?) ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: Does blue make you blue?
Paul W. Frields escribió: Does the Artwork team think, overall, that using a blue palette for our desktop theme (background) helps Fedora with its identity and branding? Do you want to continue that for Fedora 10? In my opinion Blue has become part of the Fedora identity, from the Logo to the desktop themes and defaults. Sure some other colors blended in with it are welcome, but I do believe that Blue now has an identity to Fedora as much as red did for Red Hat back in the day (I mean in the days of Red Hat Linux as the free version of Red Hat). ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: Does blue make you blue?
Max Spevack escribió: On Wed, 30 Jul 2008, Gian Paolo Mureddu wrote: In my opinion Blue has become part of the Fedora identity, from the Logo to the desktop themes and defaults. Sure some other colors blended in with it are welcome, but I do believe that Blue now has an identity to Fedora as much as red did for Red Hat back in the day (I mean in the days of Red Hat Linux as the free version of Red Hat). Blue = Fedora. Mix in some other stuff as appropriate, but I believe that Blue is now our color. We shouldn't give that up. Ubuntu has brown, OpenSuse has green. Red Hat has red. We have blue. Personally, I like that we maintain that general blue-ish feel. Play with the shades if you like, mix in some spice and variety if you like, but I think Fedora should always be identifiable with the color blue. Just my $.02, Max My thoughts exactly. The color has become part of the identity of the distribution itself, as much as other colors have become part of other distributions. Other distributions may share colors as well: green SuSE and Mint, purple Gentoo and Mandriva or blue Fedora and Arch. And I like our Blue-ish hue. ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: [Echo] new computer icon draft
2) I have never seen, in real life, a monitor placed that way up against a computer tower ~m Interesting, my main computer is arranged like that (more for space reasons than anything) ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: artTeam
Jonathan Bizama escribió: Hola, bueno les escribo porque me gustaria participar en este grupo, bueno yo soy diseñador, soy de chile y utilizo fedora hace 2 años My reply will be in two languages: Spanish and English... Spanish: Hola, Jonathan. Lamentablemente el idioma oficial de la lista es Inglés. Si puedes comunicarte con el resto de la lista en este idioma sería excelente, de lo contrario, yo te puedo ayudar para que puedas participar en ella. English: Hello, Jonathan. Sadly the official language of the list is English. If you can communicate with the rest of the list in this language, it would be excellent, otherwise, I may help you so that you can participate in it. ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: revised f9 wallpaper
Máirín Duffy escribió: Ian Weller wrote: On Sun, 6 Apr 2008, Máirín Duffy wrote: This is one of the ideas I've been working with - http://duffy.fedorapeople.org/temp/0001.png Whoa. Almost looks like a UFO is abducting my taskbar. ;) Oh crap, I totally see that now too. :) This is a slightly different render of it, does it look less invasion-like? http://duffy.fedorapeople.org/temp/from-below.7.png ~m It looks like ripples on water surface viewed from underwater, and the light rays penetrating from the surface. Looks nice. ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: revised f9 wallpaper
Máirín Duffy escribió: Máirín Duffy wrote: That would be awesome! Give me maybe 45 minutes to clean it up and I'll send it here. One thing though, when working with this file you've gotta put it in outline mode otherwise the blurs will slow your machine to a halt. Also, I've been rendering the bitmaps on the command line, eg: inkscape --without-gui --export-png=0003b.png 0003.svg Um, okay so that took way more than 45 minutes... sorry but I've been playing with it a lot and think it's getting better. I added some bubbles sparkles and mucked with the ripples such that they match the rest of the artwork a little better and look a little bit more natural. Here's the mock so far: http://duffy.fedorapeople.org/temp/f9wallpaper/sparkles-6_test.png The source files (these will be changing as I play around): - http://duffy.fedorapeople.org/temp/f9wallpaper/0008.svg - this is the main background without sparkles; this one you will not be able to work with unless you go into view outlines mode. - http://duffy.fedorapeople.org/temp/f9wallpaper/sparkles-6.svg - this is the bitmap output of the 0008.svg file on one layer with vector sparkles, etc on top. ~m Wow! These look *REALLY* nice with the added stars and sparkling. ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: Nodoka suggestions for Fedora 10
Martin Sourada escribió: On Wed, 2008-04-02 at 21:10 +0200, Mark wrote: Hey, i'm having some suggestions for nodoka in the next fedora version. My general idea for fedora is to have the themes polished in F10. Nodoka can do a lot to get that done. Oke for the first one. When you hover a button or anything that's nodoka controlled like the buttons: minimize, maximize and close. When you put your mouse on one of them the image behind it is instantly changing to the hover state (or something like it). My suggestion would be to make a effect of it. Fade out the old one and simultaneously fade in the new image so that you get some nice effects there. Also do this for every other thing that has another state when it's selected, hovered etc. AFAIK, metacity does not support it. Correct me if I'm wrong. It would possible to make these effects of these using Compiz' wm but I have no experience in this area and also compositing isn't currently working almost nowhere in rawhide (you know, intel is broken a little, and nvidia does not support the new Xorg yet). As far as I know composite can work with 2D only drivers like VESA. IIRC xcompmgr wasn't particularly slow (though very unstable). I'm not familiar with the implementation of the Composite extension of Metacity, or what effects are possible with it. I however am more familiar with the implementation of XFWM4, and it is lightweight enough to be used with 2D only drivers such as 2D-only radeon drivers on R500 hardware (or radeonhd drivers) as well as VESA, with very decent a performance. But this isn't a discussion for the art-list, but for -devel and maybe Desktop. Just wanted to point out that you can have composite enabled by default with 2D-only drivers and have good performance. ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: Nodoka suggestions for Fedora 10
Wow... No that I look at your mockups the look on the F7 notification balloons reminded me of FC5-6 look. Nice, though. The ones for F9 look also very nice, and the important thing: the panel style for the taskbar panel looks really nice, now I'd wonder how would it look if the upper panel had also the same style (the main problem would be the menu bar inheriting the same style for consistency look. For the buttons I thought of something like the mouse-over hover effect you have in the taksbar buttons (for consistency's sake), in another (but consistent) color, if like. Now how to make this play nice with Nodoka? So that it all looks consistent? ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Re: Nodoka suggestions for Fedora 10
Mark escribió: Hey, i'm having some suggestions for nodoka in the next fedora version. My general idea for fedora is to have the themes polished in F10. Nodoka can do a lot to get that done. Oke for the first one. When you hover a button or anything that's nodoka controlled like the buttons: minimize, maximize and close. When you put your mouse on one of them the image behind it is instantly changing to the hover state (or something like it). My suggestion would be to make a effect of it. Fade out the old one and simultaneously fade in the new image so that you get some nice effects there. Also do this for every other thing that has another state when it's selected, hovered etc. That is very interesting. One thing I've noticed, though, and since Metacity allows for that, is that if you change the order of the buttons (using gconf-editor), the properties of the buttons will be inherited by the new elements in their place. For example, I like to have the close and minimize buttons together at the upper left corner of the window, and the menu and maximize buttons on the right corner. The problem with the current implementation of the theme is that it locks the buttons to the right corner of the window and even though all effects are inherited when they are changed, the highlight around the buttons persists and is locked to the buttons on the right hand corner[1]. Maybe the first step would be to lock the highlight border to the properties of the buttons instead of a location in the title bar? (is this even possible in GTK? [or any other toolkit for that matter?]) The second one is something i've requested before but never got in. Theme the taskbar! fully theme it, not just change the colour but really give it a theme. As far as i know this has never been done in fedora. I will try to make a mockup of it sometime soon. This sounds VERY interesting indeed... It also opens all sorts of possibilities for themes... Like having both the lower and upper panes have different colors/combinations/highlights, etc. Make launcher icons stand out as buttons, give a glossy look (or not), etc. And have the lower panel (with the Show Desktop, Window List Recycle Bin and Desktop Pager applets) a completely different, but complementary look than that of the upper panel. Have the Window List applet have its own properties so that (as some people do) if a user deletes one of the panels (to reclaim desktop pace, for instance) and moves the Window List to the other panel, these properties are retained and what not. Third. A while back i made a mockup of a themed notification message. the current one looks kinda plain. The one i had made was one you all seemed to like one way or the other but never got implemented. I will try to find that mockup and post it again to see if this could find it's way in Fedora 10. I don't remember seeing this one, and I would very much like to see it! That's it for this moment. i'm sure i will come with more once i'm busy making mockups. But what is your opinion about those ideas so far and how likely is it to get them in Fedora 10? PS: I hate it having a sense of good taste when it comes to graphics, but 0 talent whatsoever! I would very much like to help the artwork team, if only with some feedback (as my drawing and graphics skills in general really suck) [1]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v328/thetargos/Desktop/Nodoka-1.png ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Self introduction.
Hi all, My name is Gian Paolo Mureddu, a long time Fedora user and fan of the distribution. I've always liked graphics arts, but lack the skill. However, through the use of Open Source tools such as ImageMagick, GIMP, Inkscape and a few others, I have had the chance to experiment with the creative me. I still lack a lot of skill, but I'd like to at least help the artwork team with some opinions and critique (mostly appreciation), and maybe ask a few tips here and there. ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
Color management in Fedora 8
Hi list, new here. I'm terribly sorry if this has been asked previously, but it is a bit of a pain searching the archives (unless there is a better way than browsing each month and trying to search within the thread list with the browser's search function. At any rate, I have noticed that Fedora 8 includes a tool for color management, however I don't know how to use icc color profiles with it, etc. As I write these lines I'm reading through what I could find in Google about color management and ICC profiles to get a better understanding of it, still there is not much documentation covering Linux or free software tools. ___ Fedora-art-list mailing list Fedora-art-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-art-list
