Re: OT google chrome OS [was Re: Graphics card recommendation?]
On Wed, 8 Jul 2009, Mauriat Miranda wrote: On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 3:09 PM, Robert P. J. Dayrpj...@crashcourse.ca wrote: On Wed, 8 Jul 2009, Tom Horsley wrote: On Wed, 8 Jul 2009 14:50:02 -0400 (EDT) Robert P. J. Day wrote: but what's their target market? if you can install chrome on any other distro (you can, right?), how exactly do they plan on breaking into the market, unless they go hard at getting onto netbooks? That's the only target they mention in their blog. They say they already have partners signed up to offer preinstalled chrome. just for fun, i decided to install the chromium browser on my f11 x86_64 system. first, the prebuilt binaries are 32-bit only, so doing a yum install would have dragged down dozens of megabytes of i586 packages with it. however, grabbing the src package and trying to build it also didn't help, since the only supported arches in the spec file are ix86 and arm. unless i'm reading it incorrectly. does an x86_64 build of their browser exist for f11? I think the v8 javascript engine that Chrome uses isn't 64bit ready yet? or has issues in 64bit. So use 32bit or wait (I'm guessing 64bit support is low in the priority list). i think i'll wait. i don't feel like loading up my x86_64 box with 72 packages and 47M of i586 content just to see what that browser looks like. rday -- Robert P. J. Day Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA Linux Consulting, Training and Annoying Kernel Pedantry. Web page: http://crashcourse.ca Linked In: http://www.linkedin.com/in/rpjday Twitter: http://twitter.com/rpjday -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Graphics card recommendation?
On two different Fedora 10 x86_64 boxes (one AMD and the other Intel based) both equipped with Radeon X1650 Pro graphics cards, the radeon driver has been a total nightmare. The fglrx drivers (which we have been using in the past) no longer are available for pre-HD radeon cards. The free radeon drivers work well except for one nasty flaw... spontaneous reboots back to the BIOS at random times. Disabling the kernel modeset feature does nothing to eliminate these. We finally gave up and replaced one of the machine's X1650 Pro with a Nvidia 8600GT using the non-free nvidia drivers. The machine has been rock solid ever since the switch over. I finally gave up on the second machine and ordered a Nvidia 9600GT for it as well. I have tested x86_64 Fedora 11 on a MacBook Pro with X1600 graphics and found the new DRI2 based radeon driver to be unusable because of improper rendering (like drawing black to the top of the screen when Pymol opens its viewer window or rendering progress bars up in the menu bar). Google has its work cut out for them if their OS is based on linux. I hope they plan to throw a lot of money at driver development because this issue is frankly killing Linux as a platform here in our lab. Mac OS X's X11 graphics support looks rock solid by comparison. Jack -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
OT google chrome OS [was Re: Graphics card recommendation?]
On Wed, 8 Jul 2009 13:15:49 -0400 Jack Howarth wrote: Google has its work cut out for them if their OS is based on linux. As near as I can tell from reading their blog, they aren't actually planning an OS, they are just planning yet another linux distro - this one containing only just enough components to run their chrome browser and nothing else :-). -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: OT google chrome OS [was Re: Graphics card recommendation?]
Don't hijack threads. poc -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: OT google chrome OS [was Re: Graphics card recommendation?]
On Wed, 8 Jul 2009, Tom Horsley wrote: On Wed, 8 Jul 2009 13:15:49 -0400 Jack Howarth wrote: Google has its work cut out for them if their OS is based on linux. As near as I can tell from reading their blog, they aren't actually planning an OS, they are just planning yet another linux distro - this one containing only just enough components to run their chrome browser and nothing else :-). but what's their target market? if you can install chrome on any other distro (you can, right?), how exactly do they plan on breaking into the market, unless they go hard at getting onto netbooks? rday -- Robert P. J. Day Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA Linux Consulting, Training and Annoying Kernel Pedantry. Web page: http://crashcourse.ca Linked In: http://www.linkedin.com/in/rpjday Twitter: http://twitter.com/rpjday -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: OT google chrome OS [was Re: Graphics card recommendation?]
On Wed, 8 Jul 2009 14:50:02 -0400 (EDT) Robert P. J. Day wrote: but what's their target market? if you can install chrome on any other distro (you can, right?), how exactly do they plan on breaking into the market, unless they go hard at getting onto netbooks? That's the only target they mention in their blog. They say they already have partners signed up to offer preinstalled chrome. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: OT google chrome OS [was Re: Graphics card recommendation?]
On Wed, 8 Jul 2009, Tom Horsley wrote: On Wed, 8 Jul 2009 14:50:02 -0400 (EDT) Robert P. J. Day wrote: but what's their target market? if you can install chrome on any other distro (you can, right?), how exactly do they plan on breaking into the market, unless they go hard at getting onto netbooks? That's the only target they mention in their blog. They say they already have partners signed up to offer preinstalled chrome. just for fun, i decided to install the chromium browser on my f11 x86_64 system. first, the prebuilt binaries are 32-bit only, so doing a yum install would have dragged down dozens of megabytes of i586 packages with it. however, grabbing the src package and trying to build it also didn't help, since the only supported arches in the spec file are ix86 and arm. unless i'm reading it incorrectly. does an x86_64 build of their browser exist for f11? rday -- Robert P. J. Day Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA Linux Consulting, Training and Annoying Kernel Pedantry. Web page: http://crashcourse.ca Linked In: http://www.linkedin.com/in/rpjday Twitter: http://twitter.com/rpjday -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: OT google chrome OS [was Re: Graphics card recommendation?]
On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 3:09 PM, Robert P. J. Dayrpj...@crashcourse.ca wrote: On Wed, 8 Jul 2009, Tom Horsley wrote: On Wed, 8 Jul 2009 14:50:02 -0400 (EDT) Robert P. J. Day wrote: but what's their target market? if you can install chrome on any other distro (you can, right?), how exactly do they plan on breaking into the market, unless they go hard at getting onto netbooks? That's the only target they mention in their blog. They say they already have partners signed up to offer preinstalled chrome. just for fun, i decided to install the chromium browser on my f11 x86_64 system. first, the prebuilt binaries are 32-bit only, so doing a yum install would have dragged down dozens of megabytes of i586 packages with it. however, grabbing the src package and trying to build it also didn't help, since the only supported arches in the spec file are ix86 and arm. unless i'm reading it incorrectly. does an x86_64 build of their browser exist for f11? I think the v8 javascript engine that Chrome uses isn't 64bit ready yet? or has issues in 64bit. So use 32bit or wait (I'm guessing 64bit support is low in the priority list). -Mauriat -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: OT google chrome OS [was Re: Graphics card recommendation?]
Robert P. J. Day wrote: however, grabbing the src package and trying to build it also didn't help, since the only supported arches in the spec file are ix86 and arm. unless i'm reading it incorrectly. does an x86_64 build of their browser exist for f11? No. Their JavaScript interpreter is a JIT which means it's inherently target-specific, and they only have code for 32-bit x86 and ARM. Their code is also said not to be 64-bit-safe in other places as well. :-( So basically it's a worthless piece of crap. Software still not supporting x86_64 these days is just broken. Having to pick one, they should have targeted x86_64, not 32-bit x86, with their JIT. Kevin Kofler -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Graphics card recommendation?
I agree - I have had NO PROBLEM what-so-ever with on-board Intel video OR non-HD Radeon cards. My two-cents for the thread was for performance beyond what those generations of graphics had to offer. Joe Kazura On Jun 24, 2009, at 6:04 AM, Kevin Kofler wrote: Tom Horsley wrote: Certainly with the advent of the DRI2 utter and complete rewrite of 3d support in the server, everyone is either giving up or taking a long time to cath up (it is never clear which :-). As near as I can tell, the only option for getting even a little above par 3d at the moment is nvidia using the nvidia binary drivers. This is bullshit. Intel integrated graphics (except the GMA 500) just work. Non-HD Radeons just work too. Kevin Kofler -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Graphics card recommendation?
I'm guessing that you have (possibly) a configuration problem and/or an issue with your particular motherboard vendor/model, etc. send me (OFF LIST) the MB specs (make model, bios, etc) and your X config file and I'll see what I can see ... Joe Kazura On Jun 24, 2009, at 3:01 PM, Joseph L. Casale wrote: Actually, your post is bullshit. Have you ever tried playing HD video on an Intel chipset? It just works if your definition of works is looks like glitchy shit. Works for me. I could believe it would struggle on the older processor/memory setups where they probably don't have enough bandwidth for full HD video and lots of other activity. So I guess my 8 gig ram quad core systems with 3100 and 3500 need more power? It often works, but certainly has issues with ~25% of what I play cause X to freeze up tighter than a Arguing it works is futile, a couple peoples success doesn't equate perfection. More of use have issues than those of us who don't. It needs lots of work still, FFS, and even Intel dev's say that? Are we still debating this? Is it really that much of an emotional topic, the love for intel chipsets? Wow... -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Graphics card recommendation?
john wendel wrote: On 06/24/2009 03:04 AM, Kevin Kofler wrote: Tom Horsley wrote: Certainly with the advent of the DRI2 utter and complete rewrite of 3d support in the server, everyone is either giving up or taking a long time to cath up (it is never clear which :-). As near as I can tell, the only option for getting even a little above par 3d at the moment is nvidia using the nvidia binary drivers. This is bullshit. Intel integrated graphics (except the GMA 500) just work. Non-HD Radeons just work too. Kevin Kofler Actually, your post is bullshit. Have you ever tried playing HD video on an Intel chipset? It just works if your definition of works is looks like glitchy shit. Adding an Nvidia card fixed my video problems. Both the Intel and Radeon drivers seem pretty leisurely. Bringing up images in 800x600 using gimp, or eog, is like watching sand painting. glxgears runs at 100-200 fps. I don't normally watch a lot of HD video, and what I have (usually 640x480 24fps) seems acceptable if not optimal, I'm not a gamer so I don't care about fancy graphics, but this is pathetic. I dual boot FC6 and F11, and the difference is huge. Maybe rpmfusion will offer a downgrade to working video again. This server on FC6 1450 fps w/ glxgears, on F11 ~220. Watching about this computer resources jumps instead of scrolling, as if the changes were saved for 2sec or so and the last image displayed. Not the kernel, if I ssh -X in from a FC6 system it's nice and smooth. As noted, I'm not a gamer, but I wouldn't claim F11 justs works but rather doesn't crash. That's about all I can say in favor of it. -- Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Graphics card recommendation?
On 6/26/09, Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com wrote: This server on FC6 1450 fps w/ glxgears, on F11 ~220. Watching about this Just as an aside: I'm not sure these numbers mean too much. I get 5000 fps with a low end nvidia card (7300 GT) and the proprietary driver. Andras -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Graphics card recommendation?
On 6/26/2009 1:38 PM, Andras Simon wrote: On 6/26/09, Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com wrote: This server on FC6 1450 fps w/ glxgears, on F11 ~220. Watching about this Just as an aside: I'm not sure these numbers mean too much. I get 5000 fps with a low end nvidia card (7300 GT) and the proprietary driver. If you care to read this. sigh http://wiki.cchtml.com/index.php/Glxgears_is_not_a_Benchmark -- David -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Graphics card recommendation?
On Fri, 2009-06-26 at 19:38 +0200, Andras Simon wrote: Just as an aside: I'm not sure these numbers mean too much. I get 5000 fps with a low end nvidia card (7300 GT) and the proprietary driver. Now show us a video card that actually outputs that many frames per second. Likewise for a monitor. They're meaningless figures... The only time that such undisplayable high frame per second figures mean anything is when you're rendering files to disc for later playback (e.g. creating computer animation). -- [...@localhost ~]$ uname -r 2.6.27.24-78.2.53.fc9.i686 Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored. I read messages from the public lists. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Graphics card recommendation?
Tom Horsley wrote: Certainly with the advent of the DRI2 utter and complete rewrite of 3d support in the server, everyone is either giving up or taking a long time to cath up (it is never clear which :-). As near as I can tell, the only option for getting even a little above par 3d at the moment is nvidia using the nvidia binary drivers. This is bullshit. Intel integrated graphics (except the GMA 500) just work. Non-HD Radeons just work too. Kevin Kofler -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Graphics card recommendation?
On Wed, 24 Jun 2009 12:04:34 +0200 Kevin Kofler wrote: This is bullshit. Intel integrated graphics (except the GMA 500) just work. Non-HD Radeons just work too. Just work in the sense that apps like neverputt are slow and jerky and use 99% of the cpu (with the radeon driver anyway) compared to previous non-DRI2 X where they were smooth and only hit about 60% of the cpu. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
RE: Graphics card recommendation?
This is bullshit. Intel integrated graphics (except the GMA 500) just work. Non-HD Radeons just work too. Huh... I have plenty Intel only systems, G35 and G45 systems and after a looong hopeful wait for them to just work I am considering switching distro's. Problem is I like RH based distros and Fedora has all I need with 3rd party repos. My Intel systems hand on playing video and just last night I reinstalled a system on loan to a friend as X wouldn't even run. Personally, my experience is they work terrible... jlc -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Graphics card recommendation?
On 06/24/2009 03:04 AM, Kevin Kofler wrote: Tom Horsley wrote: Certainly with the advent of the DRI2 utter and complete rewrite of 3d support in the server, everyone is either giving up or taking a long time to cath up (it is never clear which :-). As near as I can tell, the only option for getting even a little above par 3d at the moment is nvidia using the nvidia binary drivers. This is bullshit. Intel integrated graphics (except the GMA 500) just work. Non-HD Radeons just work too. Kevin Kofler Actually, your post is bullshit. Have you ever tried playing HD video on an Intel chipset? It just works if your definition of works is looks like glitchy shit. Adding an Nvidia card fixed my video problems. John -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Graphics card recommendation?
Actually, your post is bullshit. Have you ever tried playing HD video on an Intel chipset? It just works if your definition of works is looks like glitchy shit. Works for me. I could believe it would struggle on the older processor/memory setups where they probably don't have enough bandwidth for full HD video and lots of other activity. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Graphics card recommendation?
On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 1:32 AM, Alan Cox a...@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk wrote: Actually, your post is bullshit. Have you ever tried playing HD video on an Intel chipset? It just works if your definition of works is looks like glitchy shit. Works for me. I could believe it would struggle on the older processor/memory setups where they probably don't have enough bandwidth for full HD video and lots of other activity. Works for me too. Intel X3100 on my M1330 can play HD content and run compiz-fusion. It also produces less heat than Nvidia's 8400M. Regards, Masood -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Graphics card recommendation?
On Wed, 2009-06-24 at 07:14 -0400, Tom Horsley wrote: On Wed, 24 Jun 2009 12:04:34 +0200 Kevin Kofler wrote: This is bullshit. Intel integrated graphics (except the GMA 500) just work. Non-HD Radeons just work too. Just work in the sense that apps like neverputt are slow and jerky and use 99% of the cpu (with the radeon driver anyway) compared to previous non-DRI2 X where they were smooth and only hit about 60% of the cpu. Funny. Neverputt works perfectly for me on an Intel GM965 chipset. Frankly, I'm quite glad that we're finally past the horror that was the Fedora 10 Intel graphics driver. Yes, it was a nasty six months, but since installing Fedora 11, I haven't had a single graphics-related bug. FWIW, I believe that Ubuntu 9.04 is now going through what we went through with Fedora 10, so I probably wouldn't switch to Ubuntu if I was frustrated with the new Intel graphics driver (or I'd switch to 8.10 or 8.04). Jonathan signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
RE: Graphics card recommendation?
Actually, your post is bullshit. Have you ever tried playing HD video on an Intel chipset? It just works if your definition of works is looks like glitchy shit. Works for me. I could believe it would struggle on the older processor/memory setups where they probably don't have enough bandwidth for full HD video and lots of other activity. So I guess my 8 gig ram quad core systems with 3100 and 3500 need more power? It often works, but certainly has issues with ~25% of what I play cause X to freeze up tighter than a Arguing it works is futile, a couple peoples success doesn't equate perfection. More of use have issues than those of us who don't. It needs lots of work still, FFS, and even Intel dev's say that? Are we still debating this? Is it really that much of an emotional topic, the love for intel chipsets? Wow... -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Graphics card recommendation?
On Jun 10, 2009, at 6:50 AM, Clemens Eisserer wrote: Hi, If you can part with around $40 US, you can find nVidia Quadro FX 2000 cards that will knock your socks off (yes, OVERKILL). Depends, just because its called Quadro doesn't mean its fast. Some of my collagues have Quadros which are identical to Geforce-6200, barely capable of playing any games. That's very true! The Quadro 4 series of cards are quite old at this point. That's why I was specific and did not generalize that ANY/ALL Quadro cards would be a good choice. It also depends on whether the game uses or relies on OpenGL for rendering. Other options would be an nVidia 'consumer' class card - GeForce FX 5200 (or higher, like 6200, etc.) w/128MB or more RAM. I can't recommend a 5200, its not even supported by latest drivers. Short: If you like to play OpenGL games, go for a serious NVidia card. If not, the radeon's will give you an excellent 2D experience, without the fear of loosing official driver support. I completely DISAGREE with the Radeon option. I have several Radeon cards getting dusty because they were so bad I couldn't even play Aisleriot SOLITAIRE ... Radeon HD3450 512MB, HD2400 Pro 512MB, x1300 256MB, x300 128MB ... not to mention the more sophisticated, 3D OpenGL TORCS 'game'. I have used the built-in X11 drivers, I have used AMD/ATI proprietary drivers and the builds from RPMFUSION ... I has been my documentable experience that Radeon cards lag behind nVidia cards on Fedora (core 9, 10 11 on x86_64 hardware, 3+GHz P4 HT, Dell GX280). Joe Kazura - Clemens -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Graphics card recommendation?
On Mon, 22 Jun 2009 11:20:24 -0400 Joe Kazura wrote: I has been my documentable experience that Radeon cards lag behind nVidia cards on Fedora Certainly with the advent of the DRI2 utter and complete rewrite of 3d support in the server, everyone is either giving up or taking a long time to cath up (it is never clear which :-). As near as I can tell, the only option for getting even a little above par 3d at the moment is nvidia using the nvidia binary drivers. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Graphics card recommendation?
Hi, If you can part with around $40 US, you can find nVidia Quadro FX 2000 cards that will knock your socks off (yes, OVERKILL). Depends, just because its called Quadro doesn't mean its fast. Some of my collagues have Quadros which are identical to Geforce-6200, barely capable of playing any games. Other options would be an nVidia 'consumer' class card - GeForce FX 5200 (or higher, like 6200, etc.) w/128MB or more RAM. I can't recommend a 5200, its not even supported by latest drivers. Short: If you like to play OpenGL games, go for a serious NVidia card. If not, the radeon's will give you an excellent 2D experience, without the fear of loosing official driver support. - Clemens -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Graphics card recommendation?
Joe Kazura wrote: I'd suggest searching eBay for nVidia AGP cards ... base your decision on how much you want to pay. If you can part with around $40 US, you can find nVidia Quadro FX 2000 cards that will knock your socks off (yes, OVERKILL). Bad recommendation. The OP wants cards which just work in Fedora. NVidia is the exact opposite. Don't buy NVidia! Kevin Kofler -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Graphics card recommendation?
Kevin Kofler wrote: If you can part with around $40 US, you can find nVidia Quadro FX 2000 cards that will knock your socks off (yes, OVERKILL). Bad recommendation. The OP wants cards which just work in Fedora. NVidia is the exact opposite. Don't buy NVidia! Actually, some kind soul (in Dublin) gave me an old AGP card gratis, but when I looked in the machine I saw that though it has an AGP slot, it also has a built-in video card, attached directly to the motherboard. I'm wondering if I install the card I've been given in the AGP slot, can I disable the built-in card, (a) in Linux, and (b) in Windows? I guess I'd better ask about (b) elsewhere! -- Timothy Murphy e-mail: gayleard /at/ eircom.net tel: +353-86-2336090, +353-1-2842366 s-mail: School of Mathematics, Trinity College Dublin, Ireland -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Graphics card recommendation?
I'm wondering if I install the card I've been given in the AGP slot, can I disable the built-in card, (a) in Linux, and (b) in Windows? I guess I'd better ask about (b) elsewhere! The priority is usually set in the BIOS, although some boxes simply disable onboard video if an AGP card is present. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Graphics card recommendation?
Timothy Murphy wrote: Kevin Kofler wrote: If you can part with around $40 US, you can find nVidia Quadro FX 2000 cards that will knock your socks off (yes, OVERKILL). Bad recommendation. The OP wants cards which just work in Fedora. NVidia is the exact opposite. Don't buy NVidia! Actually, some kind soul (in Dublin) gave me an old AGP card gratis, but when I looked in the machine I saw that though it has an AGP slot, it also has a built-in video card, attached directly to the motherboard. I'm wondering if I install the card I've been given in the AGP slot, can I disable the built-in card, (a) in Linux, and (b) in Windows? I guess I'd better ask about (b) elsewhere! The answer is usually: (c) in the CMOS setup -- Kevin J. Cummings kjch...@rcn.com cummi...@kjchome.homeip.net cummi...@kjc386.framingham.ma.us Registered Linux User #1232 (http://counter.li.org) -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Re: Graphics card recommendation?
Timothy Murphy-5 wrote: Thanks very much for this useful summary. As you said in another posting, I'm perfectly happy with any graphics that actually works, the problem lies with the younger generation who have higher expectations. I have in the past 6 months bought two cheap graphics cards that I use with the kmod-nvidia from rpmfusion and give pretty reasonable 3d graphics performance - eg google-earth works just fine. 1) ZOTAC 256MB GEF FX5200 PCI 2) Asus 256MB 8400GS/Silent/HTP Passiv PCIe These I bought from Amazon to get two old machines with integrated Intel graphics working acceptably in F10. They were a) simple to plug in and go, b) cheap, and c) did not need any additional power leads plugging in. The first one has a very quiet fan and the second has passive cooling so no fan at all! Note that one is PCI and the other is PCI-e. As others have already mentioned you need to check your motherboard for which slots are available. Also note that both the above cards have both digital and analogue outputs. I did spend a fair bit of time researching these before I bought them but they have both worked extremely well using the driver I mentioned above. Perhaps in the fullness of time Nvidia will open up and allow open source 3d drivers to be developed but in the meantime this is an easy solution for what you appear to need. -- mike -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Graphics card recommendation?
2009/6/2 Kevin Kofler kevin.kof...@chello.at: Joonas Sarajärvi wrote: There are cheap models in both Nvidia's and AMD/Ati's product ranges. But don't buy NVidia! Proprietary drivers only cause problems. 3. Works under Fedora-10, if possible as is. I'd go with a AMD/Ati card due to AMD's effort to bring quality open source drivers to the community. Currently new RadeonHD cards will work quite nicely, Not really, because as you say... but especially on Fedora 10 there is little hardware acceleration offered. ... so why are you recommending them? There's in fact no OpenGL support for Radeon HD cards yet in the drivers shipped with Fedora and there's no definite time frame when it'll be available. (The DRI upstream project claims an ETA of H1/2009 for first working snapshots, but said first half is almost over and I have yet to see anything usable.) In addition, most Radeon HD cards are expensive, he's asking for something cheap. The right choice is to pick one of the older ATI models (up to X1950), see: http://dri.freedesktop.org/wiki/ATIRadeon All except the r100 (Radeon 7000/VE) series have texturing, clipping and lighting (TCL) support. Also note that the cited Asus K8V-MX motherboard has an AGP port and no PCI-Express ports, so the right choice is an AGP card, not a PCI-Express card. A Radeon 9250 might end up being the best choice, it's not the most powerful graphics card out there, but it's cheap, it does have a TCL engine and 3D acceleration just works. Kevin Kofler I recommended new AMD/Ati graphics cards, because their open source drivers are very likely to have OpenGL support equal to the older Radeons, and in the meantime, there's the option of using the proprietary driver. A R500 generation Radeon would also suffice for the OP's needs, but at least here they are quite hard to find. Newer cards are usually also either faster or less watt hungry. A used R500 generation card certainly would be a strong contender here, especially since the OP is looking for an AGP card. -- Joonas Sarajärvi mue...@gmail.com -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Graphics card recommendation?
I'm looking for a graphics card satisfying the following criteria: 1. Cheap 2. TL capability 3. Works under Fedora-10, if possible as is. [This is for a desktop with an Asus K8V-MX motherboard. I need the TL feature for my grand-daughter to play Sims-2 under Windows XP.] Any and all suggestions gratefully received. -- Timothy Murphy e-mail: gayleard /at/ eircom.net tel: +353-86-2336090, +353-1-2842366 s-mail: School of Mathematics, Trinity College Dublin -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Graphics card recommendation?
On Mon, 2009-06-01 at 15:03 +0100, Timothy Murphy wrote: 2. TL capability Nope, sorry, I can't figure out what this means. poc -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Graphics card recommendation?
2009/6/1 Patrick O'Callaghan pocallag...@gmail.com: TL capability Texture and Lighting capability. While I agree that it's a stupid acronym, it's part of a fairly generic you can't run this game because... error which has been pasted verbatim. http://www.google.com/search?q=%22T%26L+capability%22 -- Sam -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Graphics card recommendation?
On Mon, 2009-06-01 at 15:19 +0100, Sharpe, Sam J wrote: 2009/6/1 Patrick O'Callaghan pocallag...@gmail.com: TL capability Texture and Lighting capability. While I agree that it's a stupid acronym, it's part of a fairly generic you can't run this game because... error which has been pasted verbatim. http://www.google.com/search?q=%22T%26L+capability%22 Fair enough, though I wonder how many non-gamers would recognize it. poc -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Graphics card recommendation?
2009/6/1 Timothy Murphy gayle...@eircom.net: I'm looking for a graphics card satisfying the following criteria: 1. Cheap There are cheap models in both Nvidia's and AMD/Ati's product ranges. 2. TL capability I'm not sure, but probably almost all graphics cards currently available will have this, and be able to run Sims 2. I'd ask the shop salesperson if you can test the card. 3. Works under Fedora-10, if possible as is. I'd go with a AMD/Ati card due to AMD's effort to bring quality open source drivers to the community. Currently new RadeonHD cards will work quite nicely, but especially on Fedora 10 there is little hardware acceleration offered. At least for my Radeon HD3650, Fedora 11 provides some 2D hardware acceleration, and 3D OpenGL acceleration is also in the works. With Nvidia cards, you will be able to get pixels to the screen and probably get the correct resolution for your screen, but AFAIK, especially open source 3D acceleration is much less complete for Nvidia cards than for Amd/Ati or Intel devices, due to Nvidia refusing to release any specifications that would help the community to build open source drivers for themselves. For both Nvidia and AMD/Ati, there is also an official closed source driver available. Nvidia's one is often considered to be better of these. If 3D performance on Fedora is important to you right now, Nvidia may be the best choice. Your choice depends a lot on what you want from your card on Fedora. -- Joonas Sarajärvi mue...@gmail.com -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Graphics card recommendation?
Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: On Mon, 2009-06-01 at 15:19 +0100, Sharpe, Sam J wrote: 2009/6/1 Patrick O'Callaghan pocallag...@gmail.com: TL capability Texture and Lighting capability. While I agree that it's a stupid acronym, it's part of a fairly generic you can't run this game because... error which has been pasted verbatim. http://www.google.com/search?q=%22T%26L+capability%22 Fair enough, though I wonder how many non-gamers would recognize it. As the OP, I had never heard of TL and am certainly no gamer, but that is what the error log complains of. As far as I can see, it is a standard acronym, and it would be as odd to call it Texture and Lighting as it would be to call PCI whatever PCI stands for. Which reminds me - apparently there is a second hurdle I have to get over, which is to distinguish between PCI and PCI-E. I think the Asus K8V-MX motherboard I am concerned with provides PCI slots, not PCI-E. Also there is something about AGP, but I'm not sure how significant that is, or if it is universal nowadays. Graphics cards are much more complicated than I thought. -- Timothy Murphy e-mail: gayleard /at/ eircom.net tel: +353-86-2336090, +353-1-2842366 s-mail: School of Mathematics, Trinity College Dublin -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Graphics card recommendation?
Joonas Sarajärvi wrote: I'm looking for a graphics card satisfying the following criteria: 1. Cheap There are cheap models in both Nvidia's and AMD/Ati's product ranges. 2. TL capability I'm not sure, but probably almost all graphics cards currently available will have this, and be able to run Sims 2. I'd ask the shop salesperson if you can test the card. 3. Works under Fedora-10, if possible as is. I'd go with a AMD/Ati card due to AMD's effort to bring quality open source drivers to the community. Currently new RadeonHD cards will work quite nicely, but especially on Fedora 10 there is little hardware acceleration offered. At least for my Radeon HD3650, Fedora 11 provides some 2D hardware acceleration, and 3D OpenGL acceleration is also in the works. Your choice depends a lot on what you want from your card on Fedora. Actually I only want it to work in graphics mode, my needs are minimal. -- Timothy Murphy e-mail: gayleard /at/ eircom.net tel: +353-86-2336090, +353-1-2842366 s-mail: School of Mathematics, Trinity College Dublin -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Graphics card recommendation?
Actually I only want it to work in graphics mode, my needs are minimal. In which case you are probably ok with the typical onboard video (for most boards). Even though the Nvidia reverse engineered 2D driver has no 3D support and is a bit patchy for render and fancy effects but quite solid for plain old fashioned 2D rectangles. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Graphics card recommendation?
Timothy Murphy wrote: Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: On Mon, 2009-06-01 at 15:19 +0100, Sharpe, Sam J wrote: 2009/6/1 Patrick O'Callaghan pocallag...@gmail.com: TL capability Texture and Lighting capability. While I agree that it's a stupid acronym, it's part of a fairly generic you can't run this game because... error which has been pasted verbatim. http://www.google.com/search?q=%22T%26L+capability%22 Fair enough, though I wonder how many non-gamers would recognize it. As the OP, I had never heard of TL and am certainly no gamer, but that is what the error log complains of. As far as I can see, it is a standard acronym, and it would be as odd to call it Texture and Lighting as it would be to call PCI whatever PCI stands for. Which reminds me - apparently there is a second hurdle I have to get over, which is to distinguish between PCI and PCI-E. I think the Asus K8V-MX motherboard I am concerned with provides PCI slots, not PCI-E. Try dmidecode | grep -i pci and see. PCI Express = PCI-E. My M3N78-VM has both: [r...@hamster ~]# dmidecode | grep -i pci PCI is supported Designation: PCIEX1 Type: 32-bit PCI Express Designation: PCIEX16 Type: 32-bit PCI Express Designation: PCI1 Type: 32-bit PCI Designation: PCI2 Type: 32-bit PCI Also there is something about AGP, but I'm not sure how significant that is, or if it is universal nowadays. A lot of video cards plug into AGP slots. dmidecode can tell you. Graphics cards are much more complicated than I thought. Heheheheh! Amen, bruddah! -- - Rick Stevens, Systems Engineer ri...@nerd.com - - AIM/Skype: therps2ICQ: 22643734Yahoo: origrps2 - -- - Which is worse: ignorance or apathy? I don't know. Who cares? - -- -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Graphics card recommendation?
Alan Cox wrote: In which case you are probably ok with the typical onboard video (for most boards). The onboard video is probably what he's using now and isn't powerful enough for his granddaughter's Winblow$ games. (The motherboard he cites has VIA Unichrome onboard graphics.) Kevin Kofler -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Graphics card recommendation?
On Monday 01 June 2009 07:03:21 am Timothy Murphy wrote: I'm looking for a graphics card satisfying the following criteria: 1. Cheap 2. TL capability 3. Works under Fedora-10, if possible as is. [This is for a desktop with an Asus K8V-MX motherboard. I need the TL feature for my grand-daughter to play Sims-2 under Windows XP.] Any and all suggestions gratefully received. -- Timothy Murphy e-mail: gayleard /at/ eircom.net tel: +353-86-2336090, +353-1-2842366 s-mail: School of Mathematics, Trinity College Dublin well why not the Sapphire 4770? It isn't very expensive and has had excellent reviews. Dave -- Canada must refuse to be entangled in any more wars fought to make the world safe for capitalism. -- The Regina Manifesto, 1933 -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Graphics card recommendation?
Joonas Sarajärvi wrote: There are cheap models in both Nvidia's and AMD/Ati's product ranges. But don't buy NVidia! Proprietary drivers only cause problems. 3. Works under Fedora-10, if possible as is. I'd go with a AMD/Ati card due to AMD's effort to bring quality open source drivers to the community. Currently new RadeonHD cards will work quite nicely, Not really, because as you say... but especially on Fedora 10 there is little hardware acceleration offered. ... so why are you recommending them? There's in fact no OpenGL support for Radeon HD cards yet in the drivers shipped with Fedora and there's no definite time frame when it'll be available. (The DRI upstream project claims an ETA of H1/2009 for first working snapshots, but said first half is almost over and I have yet to see anything usable.) In addition, most Radeon HD cards are expensive, he's asking for something cheap. The right choice is to pick one of the older ATI models (up to X1950), see: http://dri.freedesktop.org/wiki/ATIRadeon All except the r100 (Radeon 7000/VE) series have texturing, clipping and lighting (TCL) support. Also note that the cited Asus K8V-MX motherboard has an AGP port and no PCI-Express ports, so the right choice is an AGP card, not a PCI-Express card. A Radeon 9250 might end up being the best choice, it's not the most powerful graphics card out there, but it's cheap, it does have a TCL engine and 3D acceleration just works. Kevin Kofler -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Graphics card recommendation?
Kevin Kofler wrote: Joonas Sarajärvi wrote: There are cheap models in both Nvidia's and AMD/Ati's product ranges. But don't buy NVidia! Proprietary drivers only cause problems. Only for some people I've said it beforeand I'll say it again I've been using the nVidia supplied drivers on linux since (I believe) 2002. In that time I've had 2 problems traced to the nVidia driver and in both cases the problems were fixed after being reported to nVidia. I use nVidia on all my systems and they are in use by several companies I work with here in Taiwan. All are *very* happy. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Graphics card recommendation?
Kevin Kofler wrote: The right choice is to pick one of the older ATI models (up to X1950), see: http://dri.freedesktop.org/wiki/ATIRadeon All except the r100 (Radeon 7000/VE) series have texturing, clipping and lighting (TCL) support. Also note that the cited Asus K8V-MX motherboard has an AGP port and no PCI-Express ports, so the right choice is an AGP card, not a PCI-Express card. Thanks very much for this useful summary. As you said in another posting, I'm perfectly happy with any graphics that actually works, the problem lies with the younger generation who have higher expectations. Somebody here in Dublin has offered me a free card, so I'll try that first. -- Timothy Murphy e-mail: gayleard /at/ eircom.net tel: +353-86-2336090, +353-1-2842366 s-mail: School of Mathematics, Trinity College Dublin -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Graphics card recommendation?
On Tue, Jun 02, 2009 at 01:21:30 +0200, Kevin Kofler kevin.kof...@chello.at wrote: A Radeon 9250 might end up being the best choice, it's not the most powerful graphics card out there, but it's cheap, it does have a TCL engine and 3D acceleration just works. I think you are likely to get more bang for your buck with a 9200 than a 9250 (which is a slightly slowed down 9200). Also of note is that in F11 my 9200 isn't working very well. I expect that to change over the next several months, but I've noticed that these cards are not the highest priority for the few guys working on video drivers. It might be interesting to hear from some owners of R300 based cards on how well their stuff works right now. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
