Re: No system-config-display ?
On Saturday 05 December 2009, Bob Goodwin wrote: > Ok, I installed [yum] kudzu but still the error persists. I have not > re-booted though if that is required? > > [b...@box9 ~]$ system-config-display > Traceback (most recent call last): >File "/usr/share/system-config-display/xconf.py", line 376, > in > dialog = xConfigDialog.XConfigDialog(hardware_state, > xconfig, rhpxl.videocard.VideoCardInfo()) >File "/usr/share/system-config-display/xConfigDialog.py", > line 641, in __init__ > if len(self.xconfig.layout[0].adjacencies) > 1: > IndexError: index out-of-bounds > I'm getting the same error. I've followed the same steps as Bob, and getting the same error. This is also F11. Kudzu is installed as is system- config-display. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: No system-config-display ?
On 05/12/09 17:30, Rahul Sundaram wrote: On 12/05/2009 03:27 PM, Bob Goodwin wrote: On 06/12/09 04:49, Roger wrote: On 12/05/2009 08:44 PM, Bob Goodwin wrote: I just installed [yum] system-config-display and get the following message when I try to use it: All I want to do is determine what display parameters I am using? What's wrong here? Bob yum install system-config-display I had to do this Roger Yes, I did that but it does not work? I should have mentioned this box is still F-11. In that case, yum install kudzu. It is a missing dependency. Rahul Ok, I installed [yum] kudzu but still the error persists. I have not re-booted though if that is required? [b...@box9 ~]$ system-config-display Traceback (most recent call last): File "/usr/share/system-config-display/xconf.py", line 376, in dialog = xConfigDialog.XConfigDialog(hardware_state, xconfig, rhpxl.videocard.VideoCardInfo()) File "/usr/share/system-config-display/xConfigDialog.py", line 641, in __init__ if len(self.xconfig.layout[0].adjacencies) > 1: IndexError: index out-of-bounds Tnx. Bob -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: No system-config-display ?
On 12/05/2009 03:27 PM, Bob Goodwin wrote: > On 06/12/09 04:49, Roger wrote: >> On 12/05/2009 08:44 PM, Bob Goodwin wrote: >>> >>>I just installed [yum] system-config-display and get the following >>>message when I try to use it: >>> >>> >>>All I want to do is determine what display parameters I am using? >>> >>>What's wrong here? >>> >>>Bob >>> >> yum install system-config-display >> I had to do this >> Roger >> > > Yes, I did that but it does not work? I should have mentioned this box > is still F-11. In that case, yum install kudzu. It is a missing dependency. Rahul -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: No system-config-display ?
On 05/12/09 08:56, Ed Greshko wrote:FWIW, I am pretty sure I was barking up the wrong tree. It seems that DESKTOP_STARTUP_ID is actually related to Xorg than anything elseand it is too late and I've got to get up too early to really delve into it. http://standards.freedesktop.org/desktop-entry-spec/desktop-entry-spec-latest.html It would seem that you've always started system-config-display as a normal user. I'd be curious if you'd first "su -" if the same error would occur. Also, FWIW, there were several bugzilla's for various system-config-* utils with the same error message. I crawled out from under my 'lectric blanket at 03:00 to investigate this ... I "su'd" to root and the results were the same. It's a recognized problem and probably not worth further investigation at this time. Thank you. Bob -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: No system-config-display ?
On 05/12/09 08:57, Christoph Wickert wrote: Am Samstag, den 05.12.2009, 04:44 -0500 schrieb Bob Goodwin: This is https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=480534 All I want to do is determine what display parameters I am using? use xrandr What's wrong here? I guess you are using the proprietary nvidia driver. Bob Regards, Christopg No I believe this on board video uses an ATI chip? It looks like I am not alone, just a late comer to the discovery of a known problem described in that bug. But it did offer "/usr/bin/gnome-display=properties" which provides the information I was looking for [1680 x 1050] as well as does xrandr: [b...@box9 ~]$ xrandr Screen 0: minimum 320 x 200, current 1680 x 1050, maximum 4096 x 4096 VGA1 connected 1680x1050+0+0 (normal left inverted right x axis y axis) 433mm x 271mm 1680x1050 60.0*+ 1280x1024 75.0 1024x768 75.1 70.1 60.0 832x62474.6 800x60072.2 75.0 60.3 56.2 640x48072.8 75.0 66.7 60.0 720x40070.1 Thanks. Bob -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: No system-config-display ?
On 05/12/09 08:53, Marko Vojinovic wrote: export DESKTOP_SESSION=xfce4 Read the man bash, search for "export" keyword. HTH, :-) Marko Yes, that helps. I should have added that the F-12 computer does not have that line, is like this F-11 box. The F-12 box works as expected, but this one does not even after the command "export DESKTOP_SESSION=xfce4." Thanks Bob -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: No system-config-display ?
Am Samstag, den 05.12.2009, 04:44 -0500 schrieb Bob Goodwin: > I just installed [yum] system-config-display and get the following > message when I try to use it: > > [b...@box9 ~]$ system-config-display > > (xconf.py:4947): Gdk-WARNING **: DESKTOP_STARTUP_ID contains > invalid UTF-8 > Traceback (most recent call last): >File "/usr/share/system-config-display/xconf.py", line 376, > in > dialog = xConfigDialog.XConfigDialog(hardware_state, > xconfig, rhpxl.videocard.VideoCardInfo()) >File "/usr/share/system-config-display/xConfigDialog.py", > line 641, in __init__ > if len(self.xconfig.layout[0].adjacencies) > 1: > IndexError: index out-of-bounds This is https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=480534 > All I want to do is determine what display parameters I am using? use xrandr > What's wrong here? I guess you are using the proprietary nvidia driver. > Bob Regards, Christopg -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: No system-config-display ?
Bob Goodwin wrote: > >> >> >> I must admit I don't know how to change "env" and man env is not >> helping. >> >> I did : >> env DESKTOP_SESSION=xfce4 >> >> but that did not make it work. It asks for pasword and then comes >> up with the error message. I even tried re-booting the computer from >> "poweroff." >> >> I started the F-12 computer and did yum install >> system-config-display and it does work as expected. >> >> Well I'm nearly at the point of updating this computer to F-12 too >> so it's moot I guess. Just waiting to see if there is an F-12 >> Omega livecd. >> >> I would like to know how to change/add to the environment though? >> Guess google will tell me that if no one else does ... >> >> Thanks for the help. >> >> FWIW, I am pretty sure I was barking up the wrong tree. It seems that DESKTOP_STARTUP_ID is actually related to Xorg than anything elseand it is too late and I've got to get up too early to really delve into it. http://standards.freedesktop.org/desktop-entry-spec/desktop-entry-spec-latest.html It would seem that you've always started system-config-display as a normal user. I'd be curious if you'd first "su -" if the same error would occur. Also, FWIW, there were several bugzilla's for various system-config-* utils with the same error message. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: No system-config-display ?
On Saturday 05 December 2009 13:18:06 Bob Goodwin wrote: > > I must admit I don't know how to change "env" and man env is not > > helping. > > > > I did : > > env DESKTOP_SESSION=xfce4 export DESKTOP_SESSION=xfce4 Read the man bash, search for "export" keyword. HTH, :-) Marko -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: No system-config-display ?
On 05/12/09 05:30, Ed Greshko wrote: Bob Goodwin wrote: I should have said this is F-11/XFCE. I don't have the F-12 box running at the moment ... [b...@box9 ~]$ env | grep DESK IMSETTINGS_INTEGRATE_DESKTOP=yes Bob OK From my fully updated F11 system and running XFCE [egres...@f11 ~]$ env | grep DESK IMSETTINGS_INTEGRATE_DESKTOP=yes DESKTOP_SESSION=xfce4 And it works. Ed I must admit I don't know how to change "env" and man env is not helping. I did : env DESKTOP_SESSION=xfce4 but that did not make it work. It asks for pasword and then comes up with the error message. I even tried re-booting the computer from "poweroff." I started the F-12 computer and did yum install system-config-display and it does work as expected. Well I'm nearly at the point of updating this computer to F-12 too so it's moot I guess. Just waiting to see if there is an F-12 Omega livecd. I would like to know how to change/add to the environment though? Guess google will tell me that if no one else does ... Thanks for the help. Bob -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: No system-config-display ?
Bob Goodwin wrote: > >I should have said this is F-11/XFCE. I don't have the F-12 box >running at the moment ... > >[b...@box9 ~]$ env | grep DESK >IMSETTINGS_INTEGRATE_DESKTOP=yes > >Bob > OK From my fully updated F11 system and running XFCE [egres...@f11 ~]$ env | grep DESK IMSETTINGS_INTEGRATE_DESKTOP=yes DESKTOP_SESSION=xfce4 And it works. Ed -- Publishing a volume of verse is like dropping a rose petal down the Grand Canyon and waiting for the echo. Guess Who! http://tinyurl.com/mc4xe7 signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: No system-config-display ?
On 05/12/09 04:56, Ed Greshko wrote: Well...FWIW, it works here fine on a fully updated F12 in both KDE and GNOME sessions. The GNOME session does have the following set [gno...@f12 ~]$ env | grep DESK IMSETTINGS_INTEGRATE_DESKTOP=yes DESKTOP_SESSION=gnome GNOME_DESKTOP_SESSION_ID=this-is-deprecated Maybe you should check yours and see if there is another environment variable of DESKTOP_STARTUP_ID set with some weird characters? Ed I should have said this is F-11/XFCE. I don't have the F-12 box running at the moment ... [b...@box9 ~]$ env | grep DESK IMSETTINGS_INTEGRATE_DESKTOP=yes Bob -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: No system-config-display ?
On 06/12/09 04:49, Roger wrote: On 12/05/2009 08:44 PM, Bob Goodwin wrote: I just installed [yum] system-config-display and get the following message when I try to use it: All I want to do is determine what display parameters I am using? What's wrong here? Bob yum install system-config-display I had to do this Roger Yes, I did that but it does not work? I should have mentioned this box is still F-11. [b...@box9 ~]$ system-config-display (xconf.py:4947): Gdk-WARNING **: DESKTOP_STARTUP_ID contains invalid UTF-8 Traceback (most recent call last): File "/usr/share/system-config-display/xconf.py", line 376, in dialog = xConfigDialog.XConfigDialog(hardware_state, xconfig, rhpxl.videocard.VideoCardInfo()) File "/usr/share/system-config-display/xConfigDialog.py", line 641, in __init__ if len(self.xconfig.layout[0].adjacencies) > 1: IndexError: index out-of-bounds -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: No system-config-display ?
Bob Goodwin wrote: > >I just installed [yum] system-config-display and get the following >message when I try to use it: > >[b...@box9 ~]$ system-config-display > >(xconf.py:4947): Gdk-WARNING **: DESKTOP_STARTUP_ID contains >invalid UTF-8 >Traceback (most recent call last): > File "/usr/share/system-config-display/xconf.py", line 376, >in > dialog = xConfigDialog.XConfigDialog(hardware_state, >xconfig, rhpxl.videocard.VideoCardInfo()) > File "/usr/share/system-config-display/xConfigDialog.py", >line 641, in __init__ > if len(self.xconfig.layout[0].adjacencies) > 1: >IndexError: index out-of-bounds > >All I want to do is determine what display parameters I am using? > >What's wrong here? > >Bob > Well...FWIW, it works here fine on a fully updated F12 in both KDE and GNOME sessions. The GNOME session does have the following set [gno...@f12 ~]$ env | grep DESK IMSETTINGS_INTEGRATE_DESKTOP=yes DESKTOP_SESSION=gnome GNOME_DESKTOP_SESSION_ID=this-is-deprecated Maybe you should check yours and see if there is another environment variable of DESKTOP_STARTUP_ID set with some weird characters? Ed -- If people drank ink instead of Schlitz, they'd be better off. -- Edward E. Hippensteel [What brand of ink? Ed.] Guess Who! http://tinyurl.com/mc4xe7 signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: No system-config-display ?
On 12/05/2009 08:44 PM, Bob Goodwin wrote: I just installed [yum] system-config-display and get the following message when I try to use it: All I want to do is determine what display parameters I am using? What's wrong here? Bob yum install system-config-display I had to do this Roger -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
No system-config-display ?
I just installed [yum] system-config-display and get the following message when I try to use it: [b...@box9 ~]$ system-config-display (xconf.py:4947): Gdk-WARNING **: DESKTOP_STARTUP_ID contains invalid UTF-8 Traceback (most recent call last): File "/usr/share/system-config-display/xconf.py", line 376, in dialog = xConfigDialog.XConfigDialog(hardware_state, xconfig, rhpxl.videocard.VideoCardInfo()) File "/usr/share/system-config-display/xConfigDialog.py", line 641, in __init__ if len(self.xconfig.layout[0].adjacencies) > 1: IndexError: index out-of-bounds All I want to do is determine what display parameters I am using? What's wrong here? Bob -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: No system-config-display, so what now?
On Fri, 2009-01-16 at 10:35 -0500, Tom Horsley wrote: > On Fri, 16 Jan 2009 09:16:14 -0600 > Aaron Konstam wrote: > > > The help data > > for gnome-terminal says you can use the --geometry option and to look at > > man X for further details. > > Ah, but conveniently, the X11 docs are left out of the default install. > If you "yum install xorg-x11-docs", then you will have an X man page :-). > However, the description of geometry in that page is somewhat incorrect. At least in reference to gnome-terminal. -- === MOUNT TAPE U1439 ON B3, NO RING === Aaron Konstam telephone: (210) 656-0355 e-mail: akons...@sbcglobal.net -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: No system-config-display, so what now?
On Fri, 16 Jan 2009 09:16:14 -0600 Aaron Konstam wrote: > The help data > for gnome-terminal says you can use the --geometry option and to look at > man X for further details. Ah, but conveniently, the X11 docs are left out of the default install. If you "yum install xorg-x11-docs", then you will have an X man page :-). -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: No system-config-display, so what now?
On Fri, 2009-01-16 at 03:39 +0100, Kevin Kofler wrote: > Aaron Konstam wrote: > > Isn't the command: Xorg -configure > > /usr/bin/X is a symlink to Xorg. > > Kevin Kofler > So it is. Which allowed me to get into a confusing loop. The help data for gnome-terminal says you can use the --geometry option and to look at man X for further details. Well there is no man X. But because of your information I found man Xorg. Then came failure since it does not describe the geometry option. So you helped but only to lead mwe to final failure. Bit I can't blame you for that. But I remembered what the geometry option looks like so there was success in the end. -- === War is an equal opportunity destroyer. === Aaron Konstam telephone: (210) 656-0355 e-mail: akons...@sbcglobal.net -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: No system-config-display, so what now?
Aaron Konstam wrote: > Isn't the command: Xorg -configure /usr/bin/X is a symlink to Xorg. Kevin Kofler -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: No system-config-display, so what now?
Paulo Cavalcanti wrote: But it the event of new graphics card, some process has to erase (rename) any previous xorg.conf available. This was the main problem I had when I installed F10. I removed an nvidia card I used during the installation (to start using my onboard Intel graphics) , and then I had no X at all, until I manually erased my xorg.conf and rebooted. Kudzu functionality has been replaced by HAL which is used by Xorg to manage this. You should file a bug report in this instance since it is a bug. Rahul -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: No system-config-display, so what now?
On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 12:38 PM, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Paulo Cavalcanti wrote: > > Sorry, Rahul >> >> but in the past, when a new hardware was installed, the xorg.conf was >> renamed, >> and a new one was created automatically. Now, if you happen to have an >> xorg.conf, >> and change the hardware, X simply does not start, because it tries to use >> the wrong xorg.conf. >> > > Xorg doesn't overwrite files by itself afaik and I don't know how that > happened. Do you have a bug report filed? > > In Fedora < F9, I think this was done by kudzu. Now there is no kudzu, but only hal. But it the event of new graphics card, some process has to erase (rename) any previous xorg.conf available. This was the main problem I had when I installed F10. I removed an nvidia card I used during the installation (to start using my onboard Intel graphics) , and then I had no X at all, until I manually erased my xorg.conf and rebooted. -- Paulo Roma Cavalcanti LCG - UFRJ -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: No system-config-display, so what now?
On Thu, 2009-01-15 at 19:14 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > It is not. You cannot rely on a static xorg.conf since the hardware > can be switched (think new monitor on a desktop for instance) and > writing it everytime slows down your display startup and doesn't work > well in other instances (think LTSP). For a lot of people, it'd be better to just create an xorg.conf file that suits their hardly-ever changing graphics hardware (likewise for keyboard and mouse), and initiate a change to the configuration on the few occasions that their graphics hardware actually does change. The obvious alternative to having no xorg.conf file (for auto set-up), would be to have an "auto" parameter for the video driver. That would allow you to fix some aspects of the xorg.conf file, and leave other parts to run automatically (without needing to rewrite the file). I don't think changing the monitor on a desktop is going to be a frequent occurrence, outside of a workshop. But occasionally adding an external monitor to a laptop is much more likely. And you might want to be able to fix the internal display parameters to make the LCD actually work, yet leave the external monitor parameters for automatic probing. -- [...@localhost ~]$ uname -r 2.6.27.9-73.fc9.i686 Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored. I read messages from the public lists. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: No system-config-display, so what now?
On Thu, 2009-01-15 at 19:14 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Timothy Murphy wrote: > > Kevin Kofler wrote: > > > >> Timothy Murphy wrote: > >>> If in fact X can be set up automatically, > >>> then presumably xorg.conf can be written automatically. > >> That's what X -configure is for. > > > > If you have to run X -configure > > (what exactly do you mean by this?) > > It is a command. Isn't the command: Xorg -configure > > > then it is not automatic. > > Correct. You do it only when you need to. > > > But my only point is that I don't understand the philosophy > > behind doing away with xorg.conf , > > and then saying, "Well, you might need it, > > in which case there are various (unspecified) progams you can run." > > > > Surely it would be simpler just to write xorg.conf in all cases? > > It is not. You cannot rely on a static xorg.conf since the hardware can > be switched (think new monitor on a desktop for instance) and writing it > everytime slows down your display startup and doesn't work well in other > instances (think LTSP). In general, you should avoid writes unless > absolutely necessary since a hard disk is usually the slowest part of > your system. > > Rahul > -- === You've been telling me to relax all the way here, and now you're telling me just to be myself? -- The Return of the Secaucus Seven === Aaron Konstam telephone: (210) 656-0355 e-mail: akons...@sbcglobal.net -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: No system-config-display, so what now?
Paulo Cavalcanti wrote: Sorry, Rahul but in the past, when a new hardware was installed, the xorg.conf was renamed, and a new one was created automatically. Now, if you happen to have an xorg.conf, and change the hardware, X simply does not start, because it tries to use the wrong xorg.conf. Xorg doesn't overwrite files by itself afaik and I don't know how that happened. Do you have a bug report filed? Rahul -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: No system-config-display, so what now?
On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 11:44 AM, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Timothy Murphy wrote: > >> Kevin Kofler wrote: >> >> Timothy Murphy wrote: >>> If in fact X can be set up automatically, then presumably xorg.conf can be written automatically. >>> That's what X -configure is for. >>> >> >> If you have to run X -configure (what exactly do you mean by this?) >> > > It is a command. > > then it is not automatic. >> > > Correct. You do it only when you need to. > > But my only point is that I don't understand the philosophy >> behind doing away with xorg.conf , >> and then saying, "Well, you might need it, >> in which case there are various (unspecified) progams you can run." >> >> Surely it would be simpler just to write xorg.conf in all cases? >> > > It is not. You cannot rely on a static xorg.conf since the hardware can be > switched (think new monitor on a desktop for instance) and writing it > everytime slows down your display startup and doesn't work well in other > instances (think LTSP). In general, you should avoid writes unless > absolutely necessary since a hard disk is usually the slowest part of your > system. > > Sorry, Rahul but in the past, when a new hardware was installed, the xorg.conf was renamed, and a new one was created automatically. Now, if you happen to have an xorg.conf, and change the hardware, X simply does not start, because it tries to use the wrong xorg.conf. -- Paulo Roma Cavalcanti LCG - UFRJ -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: No system-config-display, so what now?
Timothy Murphy wrote: Kevin Kofler wrote: Timothy Murphy wrote: If in fact X can be set up automatically, then presumably xorg.conf can be written automatically. That's what X -configure is for. If you have to run X -configure (what exactly do you mean by this?) It is a command. then it is not automatic. Correct. You do it only when you need to. But my only point is that I don't understand the philosophy behind doing away with xorg.conf , and then saying, "Well, you might need it, in which case there are various (unspecified) progams you can run." Surely it would be simpler just to write xorg.conf in all cases? It is not. You cannot rely on a static xorg.conf since the hardware can be switched (think new monitor on a desktop for instance) and writing it everytime slows down your display startup and doesn't work well in other instances (think LTSP). In general, you should avoid writes unless absolutely necessary since a hard disk is usually the slowest part of your system. Rahul -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: No system-config-display, so what now?
Bill Davidsen wrote: The underlying issue is that no one can write software to automate correct handling of (a) hardware which hasn't been created when you write the software or (b) people who want something you wouldn't have picked as the default. A) is not correct. Modern hardware in most cases can return the right information during autoprobing following standard interfaces for doing so. B) is only partially correct since in many cases, the system has multiple users with per user settings that are different from each other. Rahul -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: No system-config-display, so what now?
Kevin Kofler wrote: > Timothy Murphy wrote: >> If in fact X can be set up automatically, >> then presumably xorg.conf can be written automatically. > > That's what X -configure is for. If you have to run X -configure (what exactly do you mean by this?) then it is not automatic. But my only point is that I don't understand the philosophy behind doing away with xorg.conf , and then saying, "Well, you might need it, in which case there are various (unspecified) progams you can run." Surely it would be simpler just to write xorg.conf in all cases? -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: No system-config-display, so what now?
Rahul Sundaram wrote: Anne Wilson wrote: I expect it's because having an xorg.conf is now discouraged, but as often happens, many of us have hardware that can't really do without it. I'm sure the day is coming - but it's not here yet :-) We will get there faster, if people report bugs when autoconfiguration does not work. It doesn't yet on systems where the hardware reports it incorrectly, returns junk data or no data at all for instance but we can still make it work if we knew the hardware details. In a report, you can file the output of lspci, /var/log/Xorg.log without a custom xorg.conf and any further information you want to provide. system-config-display is a bandaid from the time when XFree86 was stagnating badly but now that Xorg is going rapid development, it makes sense to fix the underlying issues instead. The underlying issue is that no one can write software to automate correct handling of (a) hardware which hasn't been created when you write the software or (b) people who want something you wouldn't have picked as the default. Therefore you need an easy way for people to tell the system what they have and how they want to use it. Any tool which assumes that you have a working graphical display to run the display configure tool is not going to be a solution. You must have some way to exchange information with the user using the hardware you can make work, and that seems to be system-config-display. -- Bill Davidsen "We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked." - from Slashdot -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: No system-config-display, so what now?
Craig White wrote: On Tue, 2009-01-13 at 14:01 -0800, w bugar wrote: Actually, there is a system-config-display, but you need to grab it via "yum install system-config-display" (they must have saved at least 8K on the media by not including that :-). Since there was about a gig of space on the DVD, I am truly stunned by this comment. Several days of "install" for 8K (still not done)? I am stunned, really. you are confusing someone's off-hand remark to be a comment that has validity...it doesn't. The intent of the newer versions of xorg project is for the underlying daemons to build the video configuration on the fly and thus be adaptable for things that change like monitors, keyboard, etc. without the need to specifically configure them. It probably doesn't work in all cases. Forget "probably" on that. ;-) I haven't tried using just Xorg yet, if that's what the install uses it has issues. -- Bill Davidsen "We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked." - from Slashdot -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: No system-config-display, so what now?
On Wednesday 14 January 2009 17:22:08 Gar Nelson wrote: > Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > Anne Wilson wrote: > >> On Wednesday 14 January 2009 01:15:28 Rahul Sundaram wrote: > >>> We will get there faster, if people report bugs when autoconfiguration > >>> does not work. > >> > >> Rahul, there must be hundreds of cases where autoconfiguration gives > >> you a working display, but because of the XAA/EXA issue still gives > >> problems. I'm assuming that there is no point in a bug report about > >> this, since I understand that EXA will become standard soon. If I'm > >> wrong, please tell me, and I'll go away and make the report. > > > > It depends. If the hardware is old for example, EXA won't work and you > > need a static hardware info fallback. It would be useful to file a > > report in such instances. > > > > Rahul > > In my case, it's a new Shuttle SN78SH7 with an integrated Nvidia GeForce > 8200. I took the easy way out and used system-config-display to make an > xorg.conf file, but I should learn how to file a bug report. > After some test periods using EXA and using XAA, I can see little difference on the Acer Aspire One (Intel 945GME Express). It did make a great deal of difference on the ATi Radeon Mobility X600 laptop, but since that laptop runs Mandriva I doubt if Fedora actually want that report. If it's helpful, I'll do it. Anne signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: No system-config-display, so what now?
Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Anne Wilson wrote: >> On Wednesday 14 January 2009 01:15:28 Rahul Sundaram wrote: >>> We will get there faster, if people report bugs when autoconfiguration >>> does not work. >> >> Rahul, there must be hundreds of cases where autoconfiguration gives >> you a working display, but because of the XAA/EXA issue still gives >> problems. I'm assuming that there is no point in a bug report about >> this, since I understand that EXA will become standard soon. If I'm >> wrong, please tell me, and I'll go away and make the report. > > It depends. If the hardware is old for example, EXA won't work and you > need a static hardware info fallback. It would be useful to file a > report in such instances. > > Rahul > In my case, it's a new Shuttle SN78SH7 with an integrated Nvidia GeForce 8200. I took the easy way out and used system-config-display to make an xorg.conf file, but I should learn how to file a bug report. Gar begin:vcard fn:Gar Nelson n:Nelson;Gar org:National Weather Service, Western Region;WFO Glasgow adr:;;101 Airport Rd.;Glasgow;MT;59230;USA email;internet:gar.nel...@noaa.gov title:ITO tel;work:406.228.2850 x-mozilla-html:FALSE url:http://www.wrh.noaa.gov/ggw version:2.1 end:vcard -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: No system-config-display, so what now?
Timothy Murphy wrote: > If in fact X can be set up automatically, > then presumably xorg.conf can be written automatically. That's what X -configure is for. Kevin Kofler -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: No system-config-display, so what now?
Rahul Sundaram wrote: >> I expect it's because having an xorg.conf is now discouraged, but as >> often >> happens, many of us have hardware that can't really do without it. I'm >> sure the day is coming - but it's not here yet :-) > > We will get there faster, if people report bugs when autoconfiguration > does not work. It doesn't yet on systems where the hardware reports it > incorrectly, returns junk data or no data at all for instance but we can > still make it work if we knew the hardware details. In a report, you can > file the output of lspci, /var/log/Xorg.log without a custom xorg.conf > and any further information you want to provide. > > system-config-display is a bandaid from the time when XFree86 was > stagnating badly but now that Xorg is going rapid development, it makes > sense to fix the underlying issues instead. I don't understand the anti xorg.conf argument. If in fact X can be set up automatically, then presumably xorg.conf can be written automatically. Then, in the hopefully few cases where this does not work, xorg.conf can be edited by hand. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: No system-config-display, so what now?
On Wednesday 14 January 2009 09:16:35 Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Anne Wilson wrote: > > On Wednesday 14 January 2009 01:15:28 Rahul Sundaram wrote: > >> We will get there faster, if people report bugs when autoconfiguration > >> does not work. > > > > Rahul, there must be hundreds of cases where autoconfiguration gives you > > a working display, but because of the XAA/EXA issue still gives problems. > > I'm assuming that there is no point in a bug report about this, since I > > understand that EXA will become standard soon. If I'm wrong, please tell > > me, and I'll go away and make the report. > > It depends. If the hardware is old for example, EXA won't work and you > need a static hardware info fallback. It would be useful to file a > report in such instances. > I started to make the report, but then realised I don't yet have enough info to make a useful one regarding the Acer Aspire One (Intel 945GME Express) and F10's xorg. Most of the information I've gathered is about the Radeon Mobility X600 on the Mandriva laptop. I assume that both situations are relevant, so when I have enough info I'll do a report that covers both hardware configurations. Having spent a little longer with the netbook, I'm not convinced that changing the AccelMethod did as much for the Intel board as it did for the ATi one. I'll give it a bit longer and see if I can get anything useful. Anne signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: No system-config-display, so what now?
Anne Wilson wrote: On Wednesday 14 January 2009 01:15:28 Rahul Sundaram wrote: We will get there faster, if people report bugs when autoconfiguration does not work. Rahul, there must be hundreds of cases where autoconfiguration gives you a working display, but because of the XAA/EXA issue still gives problems. I'm assuming that there is no point in a bug report about this, since I understand that EXA will become standard soon. If I'm wrong, please tell me, and I'll go away and make the report. It depends. If the hardware is old for example, EXA won't work and you need a static hardware info fallback. It would be useful to file a report in such instances. Rahul -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: No system-config-display, so what now?
On Wednesday 14 January 2009 01:15:28 Rahul Sundaram wrote: > We will get there faster, if people report bugs when autoconfiguration > does not work. Rahul, there must be hundreds of cases where autoconfiguration gives you a working display, but because of the XAA/EXA issue still gives problems. I'm assuming that there is no point in a bug report about this, since I understand that EXA will become standard soon. If I'm wrong, please tell me, and I'll go away and make the report. Anne signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: No system-config-display, so what now?
Tom Horsley wrote: On Wed, 14 Jan 2009 06:45:28 +0530 Rahul Sundaram wrote: system-config-display is a bandaid from the time when XFree86 was stagnating badly but now that Xorg is going rapid development, it makes sense to fix the underlying issues instead. There are some underlying issues that are a matter of user preference which couldn't possibly be automated - I hope something comes down the pike to allow those to be configured easily instead of constantly making it hard and hard to configure them as has been the current direction. User preferences can still be stored but system-config-display isn't being used for this much if at all and most of the usage happens to be workarounds which we would, do without. Some examples: I use a trackball and want to configure one of the buttons as draglock (so I don't need three hands to drag things system-config-display isn't useful here. People with multiple monitors need to be able to say if they want separate desktops, or one big virtual desktop (and if a big virtual one, how are the monitors physically arranged). This is more often a per user setting, stored elsewhere rather than in xorg.conf and that happens to be true with many of the customizations as well. At any rate, you don't need a default xorg.conf in these cases and only need them created if you do a specfic system-wide customization. I was referring more about the default instance. Rahul -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: No system-config-display, so what now?
On Wed, 14 Jan 2009 06:45:28 +0530 Rahul Sundaram wrote: > system-config-display is a bandaid from the time when XFree86 was > stagnating badly but now that Xorg is going rapid development, it makes > sense to fix the underlying issues instead. There are some underlying issues that are a matter of user preference which couldn't possibly be automated - I hope something comes down the pike to allow those to be configured easily instead of constantly making it hard and hard to configure them as has been the current direction. Some examples: I use a trackball and want to configure one of the buttons as draglock (so I don't need three hands to drag things :-). People with multiple monitors need to be able to say if they want separate desktops, or one big virtual desktop (and if a big virtual one, how are the monitors physically arranged). -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: No system-config-display, so what now?
Anne Wilson wrote: I expect it's because having an xorg.conf is now discouraged, but as often happens, many of us have hardware that can't really do without it. I'm sure the day is coming - but it's not here yet :-) We will get there faster, if people report bugs when autoconfiguration does not work. It doesn't yet on systems where the hardware reports it incorrectly, returns junk data or no data at all for instance but we can still make it work if we knew the hardware details. In a report, you can file the output of lspci, /var/log/Xorg.log without a custom xorg.conf and any further information you want to provide. system-config-display is a bandaid from the time when XFree86 was stagnating badly but now that Xorg is going rapid development, it makes sense to fix the underlying issues instead. Rahul -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: No system-config-display, so what now?
On Tue, 2009-01-13 at 14:01 -0800, w bugar wrote: > > > > Actually, there is a system-config-display, but > > you need to grab > > > > it via "yum install > > system-config-display" (they must have saved > > > > at least 8K on the media by not including that > > :-). > > Since there was about a gig of space on the DVD, I am truly stunned by this > comment. Several days of "install" for 8K (still not done)? > I am stunned, really. you are confusing someone's off-hand remark to be a comment that has validity...it doesn't. The intent of the newer versions of xorg project is for the underlying daemons to build the video configuration on the fly and thus be adaptable for things that change like monitors, keyboard, etc. without the need to specifically configure them. It probably doesn't work in all cases. Craig -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: No system-config-display, so what now?
> From: Aaron Konstam > Subject: Re: No system-config-display, so what now? > To: "Community assistance, encouragement, and advice for using Fedora." > > Date: Tuesday, January 13, 2009, 3:52 PM > On Tue, 2009-01-13 at 19:57 +, Anne Wilson wrote: > > On Tuesday 13 January 2009 19:42:33 Tom Horsley wrote: > > > On Tue, 13 Jan 2009 19:38:06 + > > > > > > Anne Wilson wrote: > > > > I know I can create an xorg.conf as a text > file, but I'm wary of creating > > > > an incomplete one. > > > > > > Actually, there is a system-config-display, but > you need to grab > > > it via "yum install > system-config-display" (they must have saved > > > at least 8K on the media by not including that > :-). Since there was about a gig of space on the DVD, I am truly stunned by this comment. Several days of "install" for 8K (still not done)? I am stunned, really. > > > > I expect it's because having an xorg.conf is now > discouraged, but as often > > happens, many of us have hardware that can't > really do without it. I'm sure > > the day is coming - but it's not here yet :-) > > > > Anne > Xorg -configure > will also create the xorg.conf file > -- > === > QOTD: "I'm just a boy named 'su'..." > === > Aaron Konstam telephone: (210) 656-0355 e-mail: > akons...@sbcglobal.net > > -- > fedora-list mailing list > fedora-list@redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list > Guidelines: > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: No system-config-display, so what now?
On Tue, 2009-01-13 at 19:57 +, Anne Wilson wrote: > On Tuesday 13 January 2009 19:42:33 Tom Horsley wrote: > > On Tue, 13 Jan 2009 19:38:06 + > > > > Anne Wilson wrote: > > > I know I can create an xorg.conf as a text file, but I'm wary of creating > > > an incomplete one. > > > > Actually, there is a system-config-display, but you need to grab > > it via "yum install system-config-display" (they must have saved > > at least 8K on the media by not including that :-). > > I expect it's because having an xorg.conf is now discouraged, but as often > happens, many of us have hardware that can't really do without it. I'm sure > the day is coming - but it's not here yet :-) > > Anne Xorg -configure will also create the xorg.conf file -- === QOTD: "I'm just a boy named 'su'..." === Aaron Konstam telephone: (210) 656-0355 e-mail: akons...@sbcglobal.net -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: No system-config-display, so what now?
On Tuesday 13 January 2009 19:42:33 Tom Horsley wrote: > On Tue, 13 Jan 2009 19:38:06 + > > Anne Wilson wrote: > > I know I can create an xorg.conf as a text file, but I'm wary of creating > > an incomplete one. > > Actually, there is a system-config-display, but you need to grab > it via "yum install system-config-display" (they must have saved > at least 8K on the media by not including that :-). I expect it's because having an xorg.conf is now discouraged, but as often happens, many of us have hardware that can't really do without it. I'm sure the day is coming - but it's not here yet :-) Anne signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: No system-config-display, so what now?
On Tue, 13 Jan 2009 19:38:06 + Anne Wilson wrote: > I know I can create an xorg.conf as a text file, but I'm wary of creating an > incomplete one. Actually, there is a system-config-display, but you need to grab it via "yum install system-config-display" (they must have saved at least 8K on the media by not including that :-). -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
No system-config-display, so what now?
A day or two ago someone mentioned a utility that would set up a basic xorg.conf. My netbook is having the same fairly heavy cpu usage as I was seeing on the laptop, and just like the laptop, it is showing X and KWin as the culprits. I cured it there by setting the acceleration mode to EXA. Since the netbook uses an Intel display, it's likely to work there as well. I know I can create an xorg.conf as a text file, but I'm wary of creating an incomplete one. And anything that involves drivers is better done with any safeguards available :-) Anne signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
