Re: WSJ - Article on Linux netbooks
Anne Wilson wrote: On Thursday 28 May 2009 20:27:37 Andras Simon wrote: On 5/28/09, Konstantin Svist fry@gmail.com wrote: Another example from my experience: I bought a Creative webcam on impulse (it was very cheap, found it on Slickdeals). Plug it in - no dice. Search for the drivers - nothing. Some similar models are supported, but not this one (different chipset, I think, was the problem). Creative has open source page for this webcam (http://tinyurl.com/m72oq3). I'll even save you the trouble of going to that page: status is pending and there's no link to any sources. So what, I'm supposed to write a driver myself? No. Just stop impulse buying stuff. Not always easy. I printed out the whole list of known-to-work webcams, and couldn't find one of them in the store. No box ever tells you what chipset is being used. In the end I bought a cheap own-brand webcam. To my surprise it worked with the gspca driver! Then you have to find application software to use the camera. I have been using xawtv to record off the webcam, but it needs a font from some unavailable package. I loaded all the fonts which are on my FC10 partition to FC11, and no go. I really want a cli application, but that's another issue, I'm back to FC10 for now. -- Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: WSJ - Article on Linux netbooks
Anne Wilson wrote: On Thursday 28 May 2009 19:41:12 Konstantin Svist wrote: True, except for one major difference: when your printer doesn't work under Windows, it's usually because you didn't install the driver yet (or installed the wrong one). Unless the printer is at least a few years old, there are always drivers for it. Nope. From time to time there have been windows releases where the old drivers would not work, and no new ones were written. I had a SCSI Black Widow scanner that had to be thrown for just that reason. Still running a 386 with Win98SE for one scanner, as long as it works I'm not going to drop most of $1k to buy another. I really can't see throwing out an expensive scanner to make a political (religious?) point of only Linux on my systems. -- Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: WSJ - Article on Linux netbooks
Kevin Kofler wrote: Konstantin Svist wrote: Is there a driver wrapper for printers out there (similar to ndiswrapper)? If not, there should be :P No, there shouldn't! We'll never get native, Free drivers that way. I don't want to have to use crappy buggy proprietary drivers which weren't even written for my operating system! Ndiscrapper (misspelling intentional) is a problem, not a solution. Are you saying if I scrap ndiswrapper you will write a driver? I'll give you a list of hardware, if you have some time. Buy a supported printer! (I recommend HP models supported by HPLIP without the binary plugin. Most HP printers are, but check the compatibility list to be sure.) If I scrap my unsupported hardware will you buy me new? And clients, they will probably scrap their old hardware if someone will buy new. If I told them they would have to buy hardware themselves they would scrap Linux, and be cost justified. You are mixing religious zeal with affordability, or something. It's something you can practice for personal use (donate to the cause of your choice), or if your employer will buy what you want. If I have to buy it out of my business budget, or get someone to pay for it, there needs to be a compelling business reason. I don't disagree with your point, but it's not an option for many users. And if I get someone using Linux with ndiswrapper it's easier to influence new hardware buys. -- Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: WSJ - Article on Linux netbooks
Bill Davidsen wrote: Still running a 386 with Win98SE for one scanner, as long as it works I'm not going to drop most of $1k to buy another. I really can't see throwing out an expensive scanner to make a political (religious?) point of only Linux on my systems. There are really cheap scanners or multifunction printers now, and chances are they'll work better and provide a higher resolution than your old model even if you payed a lot for it at the time. Kevin Kofler -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: WSJ - Article on Linux netbooks
Bill Davidsen wrote: If I scrap my unsupported hardware will you buy me new? And clients, they will probably scrap their old hardware if someone will buy new. If I told them they would have to buy hardware themselves they would scrap Linux, and be cost justified. You shouldn't have bought hardware not supported by GNU/Linux in the first place. Now you blame others for being unable to fix your or your clients' screwups. Kevin Kofler -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: WSJ - Article on Linux netbooks
On Thu, 2009-05-28 at 17:04 -0300, Damián Rodríguez Sánchez wrote: that's because it's a lot more common for mac drivers to come available with the hardware you buy for your computer. have you ever seen a keyborad, video card, printer or whatever come with a linux driver in the accompanying cd? Yes. And oddly enough, it wasn't needed. -- [...@localhost ~]$ uname -r 2.6.27.23-78.2.50.fc9.i686 Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored. I read messages from the public lists. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: WSJ - Article on Linux netbooks
On Thu, 2009-05-28 at 13:38 -0700, Craig White wrote: The only challenge is for netbook manufacturers to produce a usable system that they can sell without a bunch of returns. Geez. If a computer manufacturer isn't able to get enough details from the chipset manufacturer to create a working driver, for their own product, to go with any of several well supported distributions, then what hope has anybody else?! I see no excuse for a manufacturer releasing a computer that doesn't work, or work well. (Not that's stopped HP from releasing incredibly crappy Pavillion computers, in the past. But it's inexcusable.) -- [...@localhost ~]$ uname -r 2.6.27.21-78.2.41.fc9.i686 Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored. I read messages from the public lists. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: WSJ - Article on Linux netbooks
On Thu, 2009-05-28 at 12:50 -0400, Tom Horsley wrote: Why stop at printers? I've long believed there should be a generic windows driver layer in linux that provides all the interfaces of windows drivers to the kernel so you could use any windows driver for linux :-). With all their bugs and other foibles... Seriously, printing on Windows can be an absolute nightmare. A plethora of ridiculous options, and really stupid behaviour. They seem to want you to pat your head, while rubbing your tummy, while hopping up and down on one leg, with your eyes shut. Any time my mum goes to print something on her PC, this huge control panel pops up with options that she'll never know what to do with. What I want is a standard interface between printer and computer (heck, why not ethernet), a standard protocol between them (IPP seems good), a standard language between then (why not Postscript), and actual intelligent printer design (say, why not, when I put A4 paper in the printer tray, the printer can see what size is in there, and tell the computer about it). Too bloody sensible, it'll never be done... -- [...@localhost ~]$ uname -r 2.6.27.23-78.2.50.fc9.i686 Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored. I read messages from the public lists. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: WSJ - Article on Linux netbooks
On Saturday 30 May 2009 09:45:41 Tim wrote: On Thu, 2009-05-28 at 12:50 -0400, Tom Horsley wrote: Why stop at printers? I've long believed there should be a generic windows driver layer in linux that provides all the interfaces of windows drivers to the kernel so you could use any windows driver for linux :-). With all their bugs and other foibles... Seriously, printing on Windows can be an absolute nightmare. A plethora of ridiculous options, and really stupid behaviour. They seem to want you to pat your head, while rubbing your tummy, while hopping up and down on one leg, with your eyes shut. Any time my mum goes to print something on her PC, this huge control panel pops up with options that she'll never know what to do with. What I want is a standard interface between printer and computer (heck, why not ethernet), a standard protocol between them (IPP seems good), a standard language between then (why not Postscript), and actual intelligent printer design (say, why not, when I put A4 paper in the printer tray, the printer can see what size is in there, and tell the computer about it). Too bloody sensible, it'll never be done... I've long been a fan of HP printers, but I bought one model for my daughter that had the capability of using profiles. It insisted on profiles being set up. She couldn't use it. I set up a couple of profiles for her, but she never got the hang of it. She threw the printer away and got another (to say that I was somewhat annoyed is an understatement). Anne signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: WSJ - Article on Linux netbooks
On Sat, May 30, 2009 at 13:55:53 +0100, Anne Wilson an...@kde.org wrote: I've long been a fan of HP printers, but I bought one model for my daughter that had the capability of using profiles. It insisted on profiles being set up. She couldn't use it. I set up a couple of profiles for her, but she never got the hang of it. She threw the printer away and got another (to say that I was somewhat annoyed is an understatement). With the way modern printers and ink are priced, it might not have been a bad decision. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: WSJ - Article on Linux netbooks
Konstantin Svist wrote: And HP is a huge well known company which obviously doesn't make mistakes like this. In fact they don't. Almost all their printers work out of the box with HPLIP. http://hplipopensource.com/ I'm supposed to write a driver myself? No, you're supposed to buy compatible hardware. Kevin Kofler -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: WSJ - Article on Linux netbooks
Tom Horsley wrote: Yep. In fact the very first time I ever had a plug play scanner actually function by merely plugging it in was when I plugged in my new HP multi-function box to my fedora 10 system. I almost had a heart attack :-). It didn't just plug play on windows, I had to load updated HP software to get it working there. Thank the HPLIP team for that. :-) (No, I don't work for HP nor on the HPLIP project, I just like the fact that it just works out of the box.) Kevin Kofler -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: WSJ - Article on Linux netbooks
On Friday 29 May 2009, Kevin Kofler wrote: Konstantin Svist wrote: Is there a driver wrapper for printers out there (similar to ndiswrapper)? If not, there should be :P No, there shouldn't! We'll never get native, Free drivers that way. I don't want to have to use crappy buggy proprietary drivers which weren't even written for my operating system! Ndiscrapper (misspelling intentional) is a problem, not a solution. Buy a supported printer! (I recommend HP models supported by HPLIP without the binary plugin. Most HP printers are, but check the compatibility list to be sure.) Kevin Kofler For a change Kevin, we agree 95%. We will never convince the Lexmarks of the world to give us working driver writing information until we are a more significant piece of the market, one they will have to play with on our terms IF they want to sell us their printers. However, gutenprint, with _some_ Epson printers can also be quite usable, I have sold color prints from my now 8 year old C82. Epsons reds are better than HP's in particular, and I have excellent color vision, which means I'm also relatively poor at seeing in the dark. HP's reds always have a slightly orange tint to me, making flesh tones look like too much makeup. The Durabrite inks are also rated for archival (100+ years life) use. -- Cheers, Gene There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) The NRA is offering FREE Associate memberships to anyone who wants them. https://www.nrahq.org/nrabonus/accept-membership.asp Place me on a BUFFER counter while you BELITTLE several BELLHOPS in the Trianon Room!! Let me one of your SUBSIDIARIES! -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: WSJ - Article on Linux netbooks
Gene Heskett gene.hesk...@verizon.net writes: We will never convince the Lexmarks of the world to give us working driver writing information until we are a more significant piece of the market, one they will have to play with on our terms IF they want to sell us their printers. I'm told by an engineer there that the problem with Lexmark (and I assume every hyper-cheap printer) is that the even very low-level stuff is done by the host computer. There are things the printer can do that will break the printer. We are talking about things like how long to heat the little wire to flash-steam the ink etc. Do it for too long and you damage the wire. On the mickysoft driver, this is all buried in a binary blob and while folks could in theory binary edit it, they won't for the most part. In the OSS world, if they released sources, that almost certainly wouldn't be as true. This puts Lexmark in a very bad position. If they open it up they would need to figure out a way to tell if a modified driver caused damage and not cover that damage under warranty repairs. Now there might be other issues too like BS patents, where everyone and their brother has patents on all the obvious ideas surrounding printing. Exposing the software when you know that the competitor is claiming patents on half a dozen things you are doing isn't going to make the legal dept very happy. -wolfgang -- Wolfgang S. Rupprecht Android 1.5 (Cupcake) and Fedora-11 -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: WSJ - Article on Linux netbooks
On Fri, 29 May 2009 17:22:54 +0200 Kevin Kofler wrote: Thank the HPLIP team for that. :-) Thanks hplip team! :-). (No, I don't work for HP nor on the HPLIP project, I just like the fact that it just works out of the box.) But what is really unfortunate is that the box doesn't have a penguin printed on it, and HP's product pages don't mention linux or point to the hplip site. If I was HP, I'd want hordes of linux users saying Hey! Look! Linux support, I gotta get me one of those!. I only discovered scanner support had been added to hplip by complete accident when I saw a mention of it in some unrelated thread during a web search. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: WSJ - Article on Linux netbooks
Tom Horsley wrote: On Fri, 29 May 2009 17:22:54 +0200 Kevin Kofler wrote: Thanks hplip team! :-). But what is really unfortunate is that the box doesn't have a penguin printed on it, and HP's product pages don't mention linux or point to the hplip site. If I was HP, I'd want hordes of linux users saying Hey! Look! Linux support, I gotta get me one of those!. I only discovered scanner support had been added to hplip by complete accident when I saw a mention of it in some unrelated thread during a web search. I have had good luck with both HP and Brother. The HP is a Photosmart D5480 that I picked up for printing CD/DVDs. I was pleasantly surprised on how well it does photos under Linux as well. It works out of the box - including the card reader. My Brother was much more expensive. It is a networked laser all in one. (MFC 7820N) Printing is supported by CUPS out of the box. You have to download the backend from the Brother site to use the scanner with SANE. They also have a program to monitor the buttons on the front and perform the action of your choice. (I consider this a gimmic, and do not use it.) The interesting thing is that if you have CUPS do a network scan after the printer is configured for network use, CUPS will find and configure it. You can also use a USB connection, but I have not tried it. Mikkel -- Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with Ketchup! signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: WSJ - Article on Linux netbooks
Tom Horsley wrote: But what is really unfortunate is that the box doesn't have a penguin printed on it, and HP's product pages don't mention linux or point to the hplip site. Indeed. They even write: System Requirements: Window$ or Mac. They aren't willing to officially support their own GNU/Linux drivers. :-( Kevin Kofler -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: WSJ - Article on Linux netbooks
O is done by the host computer. There are things the printer can do that will break the printer. We are talking about things like how long to heat the little wire to flash-steam the ink etc. Do it for too long and you damage the wire. On the mickysoft driver, this is all buried in a binary blob and while folks could in theory binary edit it, they won't for the most part. In the OSS world, if they released sources, that You honestly think the bad guys wouldn't just sniff the wire, disassemble the driver and write printer exploding worms given the chance. almost certainly wouldn't be as true. This puts Lexmark in a very bad position. If they open it up they would need to figure out a way to tell if a modified driver caused damage and not cover that damage under warranty repairs. I don't doubt that the printer control is done from the PC end, but I'd be suprised if Lexmark were dumb enough to just trust the PC commands. You don't DRM your toner cartridges and then act careless on the rest surely. I'd have thought they'd have DRM on the driver interface too ! Linux actually supports a fair number of dumb printers, usually by rasterising with ghostscript and then driving the rasteriser through some custom printer driver. And printers are one area where the what to buy data is really quite good: http://www.linuxfoundation.org/en/OpenPrinting Alan -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: WSJ - Article on Linux netbooks
On Fri, 2009-05-29 at 17:12 +0200, Kevin Kofler wrote: Konstantin Svist wrote: Is there a driver wrapper for printers out there (similar to ndiswrapper)? If not, there should be :P No, there shouldn't! We'll never get native, Free drivers that way. I don't want to have to use crappy buggy proprietary drivers which weren't even written for my operating system! Ndiscrapper (misspelling intentional) is a problem, not a solution. Buy a supported printer! (I recommend HP models supported by HPLIP without the binary plugin. Most HP printers are, but check the compatibility list to be sure.) Kevin Kofler But if one already has a system running windows and converts to Linux, this is not a good option. The software should run with stuff that is already working to be a good product. Otherwise we will just continue to be an also ran operating system. I use Linux on three systems now, and one of them works well, the other two less so, one couldn't update to F10 because of the APIC (sp?) option not working (an older IBM system). Another won't work with my wife's cell phone media, refusing to download her mp3 files (it just stalls, no error messages or any indication of what is happening). The third is still running Fedora 8 because it is just an old box I use for physical trouble shooting on electronics. Overall, I like Fedora, but seriously printer and peripheral incompatibility will kill wider adoption. It is about use, not ideology. If we could wield enough influence then product manufacturers would support Linux. But only if the interface is consistent in the various releases. The ball is in our court, whether we like it or not. And, by the way, why not enable a simple way to interface to Windows drivers? (I'm joking here, I know the issues.) I suspect that Windows has severe limitations on re-entrance, and most likely hasn't publicly documented that process, which is one of the real issues with drivers anyway. Regards, Les H -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: WSJ - Article on Linux netbooks
Alan Cox a...@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk writes: You honestly think the bad guys wouldn't just sniff the wire, disassemble the driver and write printer exploding worms given the chance. I didn't get the impression that they were as worried about their printers being targeted by worms as much as they were worried that they would be left holding the bag doing free warranty repairs on printers that were broken by buggy 3rd party drivers. As controllers become cheaper, hopefully the excuse of being able to break the hardware will go away. I don't doubt that the printer control is done from the PC end, but I'd be suprised if Lexmark were dumb enough to just trust the PC commands. You don't DRM your toner cartridges and then act careless on the rest surely. I'd have thought they'd have DRM on the driver interface too ! The toner cartridge has lots more mark-up. You can afford to put more smarts in that than the printer. ;-) In case it wasn't obvious, I'm not the slightest bit happy about companies not releasing programming information either. I just don't think that MS co-marketing dollars is the answer all of the time. Sometimes it is just laziness and a false sense of security through obscurity. -wolfgang -- Wolfgang S. Rupprecht Android 1.5 (Cupcake) and Fedora-11 -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: WSJ - Article on Linux netbooks
Les wrote: snip But if one already has a system running windows and converts to Linux, this is not a good option. The software should run with stuff that is already working to be a good product. Otherwise we will just continue to be an also ran operating system. Les, if you can convince some of the hardware makers (nVidia, TI, Broadcom and several others) to open the hardware (publish the specs on the chips and such), then Linux developers can build drivers for them and get them off the snide. The requirement to use proprietary binary blobs the maker provides because they're afraid of what evils the open source community may cause using their hardware (TI's wireless chips can be set to transmit at very high power levels and at bogus frequencies) or to protect a trade secret (the fact that we can figure out how to interface to the binary blobs make this a less tangible reason) will ALWAYS relegate Linux to also ran status. If you're a conspiracy fan, perhaps there's some $$$ trading hands betwixt Micro$oft and the hardware makers. They've done it before, the sods! I don't agree with M$ business practices and never have. -- - Rick Stevens, Systems Engineer ri...@nerd.com - - AIM/Skype: therps2ICQ: 22643734Yahoo: origrps2 - -- - OK, so you're a Ph.D. Just don't TOUCH anything! - -- -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: WSJ - Article on Linux netbooks
On Friday 29 May 2009, Wolfgang S. Rupprecht wrote: Gene Heskett gene.hesk...@verizon.net writes: We will never convince the Lexmarks of the world to give us working driver writing information until we are a more significant piece of the market, one they will have to play with on our terms IF they want to sell us their printers. I'm told by an engineer there that the problem with Lexmark (and I assume every hyper-cheap printer) is that the even very low-level stuff is done by the host computer. There are things the printer can do that will break the printer. We are talking about things like how long to heat the little wire to flash-steam the ink etc. Do it for too long and you damage the wire. On the mickysoft driver, this is all buried in a binary blob and while folks could in theory binary edit it, they won't for the most part. In the OSS world, if they released sources, that almost certainly wouldn't be as true. This puts Lexmark in a very bad position. If they open it up they would need to figure out a way to tell if a modified driver caused damage and not cover that damage under warranty repairs. Now there might be other issues too like BS patents, where everyone and their brother has patents on all the obvious ideas surrounding printing. Exposing the software when you know that the competitor is claiming patents on half a dozen things you are doing isn't going to make the legal dept very happy. And which is the very real reason they are in that pickle in the first place. Its not what you can or cannot do, its what you can do and not get caught. And giving the world discovery via driver writing specs will make damned sure you get caught. So folks like Lexmark will slowly see their market share deteriorate as linux grows. And bet the farm they will file for chapter 7 cuz its cheaper than getting caught. And the exact same people will re-arrange the letters on the letterhead and become MarkLex next week and buy up all the remains of LexMark at the sheriffs sale. Business as usual till another decade has passed. Wash, rinse, repeat. -wolfgang -- Wolfgang S. Rupprecht Android 1.5 (Cupcake) and Fedora-11 -- Cheers, Gene There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) The NRA is offering FREE Associate memberships to anyone who wants them. https://www.nrahq.org/nrabonus/accept-membership.asp The recent proliferation of Nuclear Testing -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: WSJ - Article on Linux netbooks
Kevin Kofler wrote: Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote: You have to download the backend from the Brother site to use the scanner with SANE. ... because said backend is not Free Software. Proprietary drivers are evil, please don't recommend them! Kevin Kofler Well, I would prefer a different license for the scanner driver, but at least they do provide the source code. Mikkel -- Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with Ketchup! signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: WSJ - Article on Linux netbooks
Alan Cox wrote: O is done by the host computer. There are things the printer can do that will break the printer. We are talking about things like how long to heat the little wire to flash-steam the ink etc. Do it for too long and you damage the wire. On the mickysoft driver, this is all buried in a binary blob and while folks could in theory binary edit it, they won't for the most part. In the OSS world, if they released sources, that You honestly think the bad guys wouldn't just sniff the wire, disassemble the driver and write printer exploding worms given the chance. almost certainly wouldn't be as true. This puts Lexmark in a very bad position. If they open it up they would need to figure out a way to tell if a modified driver caused damage and not cover that damage under warranty repairs. I don't doubt that the printer control is done from the PC end, but I'd be suprised if Lexmark were dumb enough to just trust the PC commands. You don't DRM your toner cartridges and then act careless on the rest surely. I'd have thought they'd have DRM on the driver interface too ! Linux actually supports a fair number of dumb printers, usually by rasterising with ghostscript and then driving the rasteriser through some custom printer driver. And printers are one area where the what to buy data is really quite good: http://www.linuxfoundation.org/en/OpenPrinting Alan I have owned Lexmark, Epson and HP. I purchased a Lexmark when they had Linux drivers on their site. It worked okay but never great and not all the features. More issues with ink and heads. Same issues that my Windows friends had. Lexmark is now in the same levels as Microsoft for quality. My Epson printers were great until one got into a weird state that I couldn't even talk to a support number without a credit card, even to ask where the local repair center was. Printer became trash before I was off the phone. HP has been great. I just purchased an all-in-one to replace an HP printer that needs new heads ($100) and I hooked it up using wireless network. Opened HPLIP and it found the printer, set it up and all worked as expected. Scanning and printing were perfect. We use HP and Xerox at work and I would love to get a Xerox Phaser for home but that is out of my price range. :) I am getting a netbook or notebook for my daughter this summer and I am looking at what is going to be supplied with Linux out of the box. This may be something to look at. http://www.alwaysinnovating.com/touchbook/ I doubt Fedora will run on it though. Lack of KDE would be a problem for me. :) -- Robin Laing -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: WSJ - Article on Linux netbooks
Kevin Kofler írta: Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote: You have to download the backend from the Brother site to use the scanner with SANE. ... because said backend is not Free Software. Proprietary drivers are evil, please don't recommend them! Kevin Kofler I have a HP Laserjet 1020. I had to run hp-setup from HPLIP to make it work, it downloaded a proprietary piece of library to drive the printer. The foo2zjs driver also works perfectly, the Zjs protocol is public and foo2zjs is free software. The jbigkit that Zjs uses is also free software. This driver is not in Fedora, only in RPMFusion because of some fskcing patent on the jbig1 compression. Without external repositories, be it HP's own download or RPMFusion, this printer would be a brick. Please, move Fedora development to Europe, so software patents don't apply. :-) -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: WSJ - Article on Linux netbooks
On Friday 29 May 2009, Robin Laing wrote: Alan Cox wrote: O is done by the host computer. There are things the printer can do that will break the printer. We are talking about things like how long to heat the little wire to flash-steam the ink etc. Do it for too long and you damage the wire. On the mickysoft driver, this is all buried in a binary blob and while folks could in theory binary edit it, they won't for the most part. In the OSS world, if they released sources, that You honestly think the bad guys wouldn't just sniff the wire, disassemble the driver and write printer exploding worms given the chance. almost certainly wouldn't be as true. This puts Lexmark in a very bad position. If they open it up they would need to figure out a way to tell if a modified driver caused damage and not cover that damage under warranty repairs. I don't doubt that the printer control is done from the PC end, but I'd be suprised if Lexmark were dumb enough to just trust the PC commands. You don't DRM your toner cartridges and then act careless on the rest surely. I'd have thought they'd have DRM on the driver interface too ! Linux actually supports a fair number of dumb printers, usually by rasterising with ghostscript and then driving the rasteriser through some custom printer driver. And printers are one area where the what to buy data is really quite good: http://www.linuxfoundation.org/en/OpenPrinting Alan I have owned Lexmark, Epson and HP. I purchased a Lexmark when they had Linux drivers on their site. It worked okay but never great and not all the features. More issues with ink and heads. Same issues that my Windows friends had. Lexmark is now in the same levels as Microsoft for quality. They have been on the next shelf down from M$ in my cataloging for years. My Epson printers were great until one got into a weird state that I couldn't even talk to a support number without a credit card, even to ask where the local repair center was. Printer became trash before I was off the phone. Ouch! OTOH, I have not needed any Epson support, ever. HP has been great. I just purchased an all-in-one to replace an HP printer that needs new heads ($100) and I hooked it up using wireless network. Opened HPLIP and it found the printer, set it up and all worked as expected. Scanning and printing were perfect. We use HP and Xerox at work and I would love to get a Xerox Phaser for home but that is out of my price range. :) I hear that! There seems to be a major fee attached to the use of the word Xerox. I am getting a netbook or notebook for my daughter this summer and I am looking at what is going to be supplied with Linux out of the box. This may be something to look at. http://www.alwaysinnovating.com/touchbook/ I doubt Fedora will run on it though. Lack of KDE would be a problem for me. :) Me too Robin. -- Cheers, Gene There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) The NRA is offering FREE Associate memberships to anyone who wants them. https://www.nrahq.org/nrabonus/accept-membership.asp The proof of the pudding is in the eating. -- Miguel de Cervantes -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: WSJ - Article on Linux netbooks
We use HP and Xerox at work and I would love to get a Xerox Phaser for home but that is out of my price range. :) I hear that! There seems to be a major fee attached to the use of the word Xerox. More DRM I seem to remember - funny things with print rollers. In the end I bought a Dell 3115 as I needed a scanner/printer and at the time HP were going through a bit of a bad spot in terms of reliability of laser printers. Even came with an rpm of the ppd files on the install discs. Alan -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: WSJ - Article on Linux netbooks
On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 11:58:44AM -0500, Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote: Tom Horsley wrote: On Fri, 29 May 2009 17:22:54 +0200 Kevin Kofler wrote: Thanks hplip team! :-). But what is really unfortunate is that the box doesn't have a penguin printed on it, and HP's product pages don't mention linux or point to the hplip site. If I was HP, I'd want hordes of linux users saying Hey! Look! Linux support, I gotta get me one of those!. I only discovered scanner support had been added to hplip by complete accident when I saw a mention of it in some unrelated thread during a web search. I have had good luck with both HP and Brother. The HP is a Photosmart D5480 that I picked up for printing CD/DVDs. I was pleasantly surprised on how well it does photos under Linux as well. It works out of the box - including the card reader. My Brother was much more expensive. It is a networked laser all in one. (MFC 7820N) Printing is supported by CUPS out of the box. You have to download the backend from the Brother site to use the scanner with SANE. They also have a program to monitor the buttons on the front and perform the action of your choice. (I consider this a gimmic, and do not use it.) The interesting thing is that if you have CUPS do a network scan after the printer is configured for network use, CUPS will find and configure it. You can also use a USB connection, but I have not tried it. My Brother HL2070N (now obsoleted by the HL2170) was literally plug and play. I've used it with USB and it is now on the household LAN. An inexpensive laser printer too. Nice and fast, too. -- Fred Smith -- fre...@fcshome.stoneham.ma.us - I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. -- Philippians 4:13 --- pgp6ODQfqO2gu.pgp Description: PGP signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: WSJ - Article on Linux netbooks
Zoltan Boszormenyi wrote: I have a HP Laserjet 1020. I had to run hp-setup from HPLIP to make it work, it downloaded a proprietary piece of library to drive the printer. Yeah, this is one of the printers HPLIP does not support out of the box, because it uses a patent-encumbered compression method (JBIG) as part of its transfer protocol. And as you say: The foo2zjs driver also works perfectly, the Zjs protocol is public and foo2zjs is free software. The jbigkit that Zjs uses is also free software. This driver is not in Fedora, only in RPMFusion because of some fskcing patent on the jbig1 compression. this is also the reason why foo2zjs is not in Fedora. FWIW, I think we could get better support for that printer if somebody wrote a Free drop-in replacement for HP's binary plugin using jbigkit, which would allow using the printer with HPLIP (without non-Free binary-only software) rather than the hacked-together foo2zjs driver. But for now foo2zjs is the best you can get in Free Software for that printer. Kevin Kofler -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
WSJ - Article on Linux netbooks
Little Laptops With Linux Have Compatibility Issues http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124346723960760371.html#mod=todays_us_personal_journal fyi, Max Pyziur p...@brama.com -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: WSJ - Article on Linux netbooks
Max Pyziur wrote: Little Laptops With Linux Have Compatibility Issues http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124346723960760371.html#mod=todays_us_personal_journal fyi, Max Pyziur p...@brama.com All the netbooks I tried had compatibility problems with other external devices. The netbooks couldn't load the software drivers to let me print to my Canon and Dell printers. I couldn't load pictures over a USB cable from my Canon PowerShot SD750 digital camera. I was able to get my pictures on the machines by plugging a storage card from my camera directly into the netbooks. Yup, I've experienced exactly the same problems. Printers being the worst, of course, since I just use the SD card readers to transfer pictures from the camera. Is there a driver wrapper for printers out there (similar to ndiswrapper)? If not, there should be :P -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: WSJ - Article on Linux netbooks
On Thu, 28 May 2009 09:36:46 -0700 Konstantin Svist wrote: Is there a driver wrapper for printers out there (similar to ndiswrapper)? If not, there should be :P Why stop at printers? I've long believed there should be a generic windows driver layer in linux that provides all the interfaces of windows drivers to the kernel so you could use any windows driver for linux :-). -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: WSJ - Article on Linux netbooks
On Thu, May 28, 2009 at 11:50 AM, Tom Horsley tom.hors...@att.net wrote: On Thu, 28 May 2009 09:36:46 -0700 Konstantin Svist wrote: Is there a driver wrapper for printers out there (similar to ndiswrapper)? If not, there should be :P Why stop at printers? I've long believed there should be a generic windows driver layer in linux that provides all the interfaces of windows drivers to the kernel so you could use any windows driver for linux :-). No one ever seems to expect their Mac to use Windows drivers though. -- Fedora 10 (www.pembo13.com) -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: WSJ - Article on Linux netbooks
On Thu, 2009-05-28 at 12:08 -0400, Max Pyziur wrote: Little Laptops With Linux Have Compatibility Issues http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124346723960760371.html#mod=todays_us_personal_journal fyi, I suppose inherent is the assumption that the problems don't happen with Windows and that they are always the Linux software. My experience with my Acer Aspire One was decidedly different. It came with Windows. My USB key and hard drive wouldn't work in Windows but did work with Linux. After I upgraded the BIOS they also worked with Windows. My USB SD card reader doesn't work in Windows so I have to plug into my Linux computer to get pictures off the card and transfer them to Windows. What the author doesn't say is that he has learned to put up with Windows problems and writes as if those problems are unique to Linux. They are not. Craig -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: WSJ - Article on Linux netbooks
Why stop at printers? I've long believed there should be a generic windows driver layer in linux that provides all the interfaces of windows drivers to the kernel so you could use any windows driver for linux :-). No one ever seems to expect their Mac to use Windows drivers though. Mac people griping about driver problems is not unusual however. My netbook needs Linux driver wrappers for Windows - at least the wireless only works properly for me in Linux... Alan -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: WSJ - Article on Linux netbooks
On Thursday 28 May 2009 19:41:12 Konstantin Svist wrote: True, except for one major difference: when your printer doesn't work under Windows, it's usually because you didn't install the driver yet (or installed the wrong one). Unless the printer is at least a few years old, there are always drivers for it. Nope. From time to time there have been windows releases where the old drivers would not work, and no new ones were written. I had a SCSI Black Widow scanner that had to be thrown for just that reason. Anne -- New to KDE4? - get help from http://userbase.kde.org Just found a cool new feature? Add it to UserBase signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: WSJ - Article on Linux netbooks
On Thu, 2009-05-28 at 19:22 +0100, Anne Wilson wrote: On Thursday 28 May 2009 18:43:33 Craig White wrote: On Thu, 2009-05-28 at 12:08 -0400, Max Pyziur wrote: Little Laptops With Linux Have Compatibility Issues http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124346723960760371.html#mod=todays_us_per sonal_journal fyi, I suppose inherent is the assumption that the problems don't happen with Windows and that they are always the Linux software. My experience with my Acer Aspire One was decidedly different. +1 It came with Windows. My USB key and hard drive wouldn't work in Windows but did work with Linux. After I upgraded the BIOS they also worked with Windows. Mine came with Lupus (I think) Linux. I removed it almost from day one and installed Fedora 10. My understanding is that it is called 'Linpus' which is derived from Fedora 9 or 10. It is clearly a reduced set of software packages. It seems pretty clear that a serious computer user would probably want a normal Linux distribution installed but for something that is usable off the shelf, it seemed adequate. It was however very useful for developing some alterations to maximize battery life and performance. Craig -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: WSJ - Article on Linux netbooks
On Thu, 2009-05-28 at 19:53 +0100, Anne Wilson wrote: On Thursday 28 May 2009 19:41:12 Konstantin Svist wrote: True, except for one major difference: when your printer doesn't work under Windows, it's usually because you didn't install the driver yet (or installed the wrong one). Unless the printer is at least a few years old, there are always drivers for it. Nope. From time to time there have been windows releases where the old drivers would not work, and no new ones were written. I had a SCSI Black Widow scanner that had to be thrown for just that reason. of course...there is a graveyard for printers and scanners that don't have drivers for Vista. The netbooks however don't come with Vista because they will perform poorly. So Microsoft will sell a crippled version of Windows 7 for netbooks in the future and you can give them more money, the amount of which is determined by how much you are willing to pay for features and performance hit. It's an interesting market...crippleware. Craig -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: WSJ - Article on Linux netbooks
On Thu, 28 May 2009 10:43:33 -0700 Craig White wrote: What the author doesn't say is that he has learned to put up with Windows problems and writes as if those problems are unique to Linux. They are not. Yep. In fact the very first time I ever had a plug play scanner actually function by merely plugging it in was when I plugged in my new HP multi-function box to my fedora 10 system. I almost had a heart attack :-). It didn't just plug play on windows, I had to load updated HP software to get it working there. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: WSJ - Article on Linux netbooks
that's because it's a lot more common for mac drivers to come available with the hardware you buy for your computer. have you ever seen a keyborad, video card, printer or whatever come with a linux driver in the accompanying cd? Arthur Pemberton escreveu: On Thu, May 28, 2009 at 11:50 AM, Tom Horsley tom.hors...@att.net wrote: On Thu, 28 May 2009 09:36:46 -0700 Konstantin Svist wrote: Is there a driver wrapper for printers out there (similar to ndiswrapper)c If not, there should be :P Why stop at printers? I've long believed there should be a generic windows driver layer in linux that provides all the interfaces of windows drivers to the kernel so you could use any windows driver for linux :-). No one ever seems to expect their Mac to use Windows drivers though. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: WSJ - Article on Linux netbooks
On Thursday 28 May 2009 19:58:18 Craig White wrote: On Thu, 2009-05-28 at 19:22 +0100, Anne Wilson wrote: On Thursday 28 May 2009 18:43:33 Craig White wrote: On Thu, 2009-05-28 at 12:08 -0400, Max Pyziur wrote: Little Laptops With Linux Have Compatibility Issues http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124346723960760371.html#mod=todays_us _per sonal_journal fyi, I suppose inherent is the assumption that the problems don't happen with Windows and that they are always the Linux software. My experience with my Acer Aspire One was decidedly different. +1 It came with Windows. My USB key and hard drive wouldn't work in Windows but did work with Linux. After I upgraded the BIOS they also worked with Windows. Mine came with Lupus (I think) Linux. I removed it almost from day one and installed Fedora 10. My understanding is that it is called 'Linpus' Correct - I knew it didn't sound quite right :-) which is derived from Fedora 9 or 10. It is clearly a reduced set of software packages. It seems pretty clear that a serious computer user would probably want a normal Linux distribution installed but for something that is usable off the shelf, it seemed adequate. I believe it would be - it was certainly better than the xandros on the eeepc 701. It was however very useful for developing some alterations to maximize battery life and performance. I wouldn't actually recommend running a full gnome or kde on it, as it is rather slow, but I wanted to be able to evaluate up-to-date kde packages and help with documentation. It is serving me admirably for my purpose. If you can live with the speed hit, and I've definitely seen worse, then it will do anything and everything you would wish. Anne -- New to KDE4? - get help from http://userbase.kde.org Just found a cool new feature? Add it to UserBase signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: WSJ - Article on Linux netbooks
On Thu, 2009-05-28 at 21:22 +0100, Anne Wilson wrote: On Thursday 28 May 2009 19:58:18 Craig White wrote: On Thu, 2009-05-28 at 19:22 +0100, Anne Wilson wrote: On Thursday 28 May 2009 18:43:33 Craig White wrote: On Thu, 2009-05-28 at 12:08 -0400, Max Pyziur wrote: Little Laptops With Linux Have Compatibility Issues http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124346723960760371.html#mod=todays_us _per sonal_journal fyi, I suppose inherent is the assumption that the problems don't happen with Windows and that they are always the Linux software. My experience with my Acer Aspire One was decidedly different. +1 It came with Windows. My USB key and hard drive wouldn't work in Windows but did work with Linux. After I upgraded the BIOS they also worked with Windows. Mine came with Lupus (I think) Linux. I removed it almost from day one and installed Fedora 10. My understanding is that it is called 'Linpus' Correct - I knew it didn't sound quite right :-) which is derived from Fedora 9 or 10. It is clearly a reduced set of software packages. It seems pretty clear that a serious computer user would probably want a normal Linux distribution installed but for something that is usable off the shelf, it seemed adequate. I believe it would be - it was certainly better than the xandros on the eeepc 701. well, xandros is a spin off debian so I wouldn't bag on it for that. The only challenge is for netbook manufacturers to produce a usable system that they can sell without a bunch of returns. It was however very useful for developing some alterations to maximize battery life and performance. I wouldn't actually recommend running a full gnome or kde on it, as it is rather slow, but I wanted to be able to evaluate up-to-date kde packages and help with documentation. It is serving me admirably for my purpose. If you can live with the speed hit, and I've definitely seen worse, then it will do anything and everything you would wish. silly me, I'm using F11-preview with KDE and I don't notice it slow at all - at least as long as I'm in performance mode. On battery, well, that is a bit slower but this isn't a device that I'm choosing for high performance anyway. The really big deal for me was to break the 1024x600 limits and I'm running a virtual 1280x1024 screen now. The wireless and camera worked out of the box. I do have to boot it in Windows in order to do Yahoo Messenger w/video though :-( It's a good thing that WSJ doesn't depend upon advertisers like Microsoft for revenue... Craig -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: WSJ - Article on Linux netbooks
Anne Wilson wrote: On Thursday 28 May 2009 19:58:18 Craig White wrote: On Thu, 2009-05-28 at 19:22 +0100, Anne Wilson wrote: Mine came with Lupus (I think) Linux. I removed it almost from day one and installed Fedora 10. My understanding is that it is called 'Linpus' Correct - I knew it didn't sound quite right :-) http://www.itsnotlup.us :) -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: WSJ - Article on Linux netbooks
On Thursday 28 May 2009 20:27:37 Andras Simon wrote: On 5/28/09, Konstantin Svist fry@gmail.com wrote: Another example from my experience: I bought a Creative webcam on impulse (it was very cheap, found it on Slickdeals). Plug it in - no dice. Search for the drivers - nothing. Some similar models are supported, but not this one (different chipset, I think, was the problem). Creative has open source page for this webcam (http://tinyurl.com/m72oq3). I'll even save you the trouble of going to that page: status is pending and there's no link to any sources. So what, I'm supposed to write a driver myself? No. Just stop impulse buying stuff. Not always easy. I printed out the whole list of known-to-work webcams, and couldn't find one of them in the store. No box ever tells you what chipset is being used. In the end I bought a cheap own-brand webcam. To my surprise it worked with the gspca driver! Anne -- New to KDE4? - get help from http://userbase.kde.org Just found a cool new feature? Add it to UserBase signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: WSJ - Article on Linux netbooks
On Thu, 28 May 2009 13:38:56 -0700, Craig White wrote: [] I believe it would be - it was certainly better than the xandros on the eeepc 701. well, xandros is a spin off debian so I wouldn't bag on it for that. The only challenge is for netbook manufacturers to produce a usable system that they can sell without a bunch of returns. You forget that Xandros is the outfit that sold out to the Gates of Hell; its interface, at least on the 701, was so much like Windows that I nearly vomited. I got it off the machine in the first half hour I owned it. Maybe people who actually like Windows would differ ... -- Beartooth Staffwright, PhD, Neo-Redneck Linux Convert Remember I know precious little of what I am talking about. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: WSJ - Article on Linux netbooks
On Thursday 28 May 2009 21:38:56 Craig White wrote: silly me, I'm using F11-preview with KDE and I don't notice it slow at all - at least as long as I'm in performance mode. On battery, well, that is a bit slower but this isn't a device that I'm choosing for high performance anyway. But then there's no guarantee that your hardware is the same as mine. You bought it a few months later, and we all know how hardware specs can change. Until the Intel video driver is improved this is going to stay rather slow, but it's fine for my purpose. Anne signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: WSJ - Article on Linux netbooks
On 05/28/2009 12:36 PM, Konstantin Svist wrote: Max Pyziur wrote: Little Laptops With Linux Have Compatibility Issues http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124346723960760371.html#mod=todays_us_personal_journal fyi, Max Pyziur p...@brama.com All the netbooks I tried had compatibility problems with other external devices. The netbooks couldn't load the software drivers to let me print to my Canon and Dell printers. I couldn't load pictures over a USB cable from my Canon PowerShot SD750 digital camera. I was able to get my pictures on the machines by plugging a storage card from my camera directly into the netbooks. Yup, I've experienced exactly the same problems. Printers being the worst, of course, since I just use the SD card readers to transfer pictures from the camera. Is there a driver wrapper for printers out there (similar to ndiswrapper)? If not, there should be :P Check out gutenprint.org I believe, you might Google for it. I have got a number of print drivers for Fedora from them. you also want to Google for gutenprint-cups. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
