Re: without a truly working jigdo, re-spins are effectively useless
| From: Robert P. J. Day rpj...@crashcourse.ca | c) keep all those respin-related files at a mirror *somewhere* and | never let them be deleted even if they go out of date. ugh. Koji has everything. If jigdo fell back to looking in koji, I guess that this particular problem could be solved. Thanks for your series of posts. It proves to me that jigdo is not fit for this purpose. Now go fight pungi and post about that. :-) -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: without a truly working jigdo, re-spins are effectively useless
D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: Koji has everything. If jigdo fell back to looking in koji, I guess that this particular problem could be solved. Koji does do some garbage collecting, so you aren't garanteed to find every build there. Plus, the packages in koji are unsigned. If jigdo has a way to check the sha1sum or the final result, maybe that's not a big concern. If not, it's a real problem. -- ToddOpenPGP - KeyID: 0xBEAF0CE3 | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp ~~ There will always be death and taxes, but death doesn't get worse every year. pgpPuRzkHsJjn.pgp Description: PGP signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: without a truly working jigdo, re-spins are effectively useless
On Thursday 12 March 2009 11:25:07 Robert P. J. Day wrote: ... Welcome to Fedora Unity's Re-Spin download site. In the past we have chosen BitTorrent as our method for sharing bits. For our latest release we have gone with using Jigdo to reduce the bandwidth and time requirements of each Spin. Thanks and enjoy! there is a fundamental logical disconnect here: jigdo is being promoted heavily as a way to get fedora re-spins, when jigdo clearly doesn't work for a rapidly-changing distro like fedora. can we finally agree on that? The provider of the jigdo template ought to be pointing to a repository of the updates you need, to be used when they are not available from other sources, but providing instructions suggesting to check local sources and / or mirrors of the distro first so you don't overwhelm an under-resourced site. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: without a truly working jigdo, re-spins are effectively useless
On 3/13/2009 9:19 AM, Bill Crawford wrote: On Thursday 12 March 2009 11:25:07 Robert P. J. Day wrote: ... Welcome to Fedora Unity's Re-Spin download site. In the past we have chosen BitTorrent as our method for sharing bits. For our latest release we have gone with using Jigdo to reduce the bandwidth and time requirements of each Spin. Thanks and enjoy! there is a fundamental logical disconnect here: jigdo is being promoted heavily as a way to get fedora re-spins, when jigdo clearly doesn't work for a rapidly-changing distro like fedora. can we finally agree on that? The provider of the jigdo template ought to be pointing to a repository of the updates you need, to be used when they are not available from other sources, but providing instructions suggesting to check local sources and / or mirrors of the distro first so you don't overwhelm an under-resourced site. They did. When the list was made which was over a month ago. Since this is a volunteer group that was trying to be helpful. Doing the work for nothing and giving it away. I guess that you get what you pay for. ;-) You do know that if you made the effort that you could create your own jidgo files and make a current re-spin? Current as of today and out of date tomorrow. There is a jigdo utility for just that. -- David -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: without a truly working jigdo, re-spins are effectively useless
On Wed, 11 Mar 2009, Kam Leo wrote: Jigdo was created for the Debian community. The Debian Stable release is known for its stability, i.e. slow change. Jigdo has its use in the scheme of things. However, using it to stay current with a high churn release such as Fedora is not one of them. The ideal candidate for Jigdo is a slow changing distribution such as CentOS, Debian, and Ubuntu LTS. Even if you create a respin with a package list that is a month old after an install there will be fewer packages to update. This is especially beneficial when installing on multiple machines or one that has a slow or limited access internet connection. By the way, when Fedora Unity Project first used Jigdo Fedora Core was a relatively slow changing distribution. and all of that makes perfect sense, but it fails to address the fundamental issue that i think we've finally identified here -- of what use is jigdo with a fast-moving distro like fedora? especially when you read this at http://spins.fedoraunity.org/ Welcome to Fedora Unity's Re-Spin download site. In the past we have chosen BitTorrent as our method for sharing bits. For our latest release we have gone with using Jigdo to reduce the bandwidth and time requirements of each Spin. Thanks and enjoy! there is a fundamental logical disconnect here: jigdo is being promoted heavily as a way to get fedora re-spins, when jigdo clearly doesn't work for a rapidly-changing distro like fedora. can we finally agree on that? rday -- p.s. and yes, dear god, i realize that fedora unity is not *officially* connected to fedora. it only gives every possible, conceivable, imaginable indication of it. Robert P. J. Day Linux Consulting, Training and Annoying Kernel Pedantry: Have classroom, will lecture. http://crashcourse.ca Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: without a truly working jigdo, re-spins are effectively useless
On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 4:25 AM, Robert P. J. Day rpj...@crashcourse.ca wrote: On Wed, 11 Mar 2009, Kam Leo wrote: Jigdo was created for the Debian community. The Debian Stable release is known for its stability, i.e. slow change. Jigdo has its use in the scheme of things. However, using it to stay current with a high churn release such as Fedora is not one of them. The ideal candidate for Jigdo is a slow changing distribution such as CentOS, Debian, and Ubuntu LTS. Even if you create a respin with a package list that is a month old after an install there will be fewer packages to update. This is especially beneficial when installing on multiple machines or one that has a slow or limited access internet connection. By the way, when Fedora Unity Project first used Jigdo Fedora Core was a relatively slow changing distribution. and all of that makes perfect sense, but it fails to address the fundamental issue that i think we've finally identified here -- of what use is jigdo with a fast-moving distro like fedora? especially when you read this at http://spins.fedoraunity.org/ Welcome to Fedora Unity's Re-Spin download site. In the past we have chosen BitTorrent as our method for sharing bits. For our latest release we have gone with using Jigdo to reduce the bandwidth and time requirements of each Spin. Thanks and enjoy! there is a fundamental logical disconnect here: jigdo is being promoted heavily as a way to get fedora re-spins, when jigdo clearly doesn't work for a rapidly-changing distro like fedora. can we finally agree on that? Jigdo does work. It works for Fedora too, but not the way you intend. With every Fedora release there are bugs which prevent that release from being installed or functioning properly. You create a respin which incorporate the fix(es) so you can use Fedora now and not wait until the next formal release. Will that work every time? Of course not. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: without a truly working jigdo, re-spins are effectively useless
Kam Leo wrote: Jigdo does work. It works for Fedora too, but not the way you intend. With every Fedora release there are bugs which prevent that release from being installed or functioning properly. You create a respin which incorporate the fix(es) so you can use Fedora now and not wait until the next formal release. Will that work every time? Of course not. The problem is that Fedora mirrors do not keep older updates, so the jigdo file just doesn't work. By the time the respin goes out, it already references updates which no longer exist. (For example, this respin has KDE 4.1.4 on it. By the time it was released, we had already pushed KDE 4.2.0, so the 4.1.4 updates are no longer available. The more time passes, the more updates are affected.) Kevin Kofler -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: without a truly working jigdo, re-spins are effectively useless
On 03/12/2009 10:06 PM, Kevin Kofler wrote: ll that work every time? Of course not. The problem is that Fedora mirrors do not keep older updates, so the jigdo file just doesn't work. By the time the respin goes out, it already references updates which no longer exist. (For example, this respin has KDE 4.1.4 on it. By the time it was released, we had already pushed KDE 4.2.0, so the 4.1.4 updates are no longer available. The more time passes, the more updates are affected.) Kevin Kofler And with pungi there really is no added value to jigdo - pungi is simple and fast and will use whatever updates you want. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
without a truly working jigdo, re-spins are effectively useless
as an admittedly frustrated followup from yesterday, i am giving up on jigdo and its variations since, quite simply, at the moment, they don't work. and given that the fedora re-spins explicitly state that they are available currently only via jigdo, that makes those re-spins more than a little useless, wouldn't you say? (i'm going to take someone's advice and try that mock/punji combination and see if that actually functions.) to summarize, trying to build an F10 i386 respin with an original F10 i386 DVD first failed as the corresponding jigdo file had a reference to an out-of-date package (xorg-x11-drv-vmmouse), specifying a version of 12.6.3-1 when most mirrors had already moved on to a newer version of 12.6.3-3, causing jigdo to run through one mirror after another looking for an older version that it was unlikely to find. lesson 1: there's not much value in a jigdo file that's wrong. to correct the above error, it was suggested that i simply edit the jigdo file and fix the problem. possibly, but i don't see why that should be *my* job, and all that's going to do is perhaps get me to the *next* out-of-date reference (whatever that might be). lesson 2: see lesson 1. moving on, even editing the .jigdo file didn't fix the problem because, for some reason, retarting jigdo (and now pointing at the local jigdo file instead of the web URL) still somehow kept looking for the older version of that package. grrr. time to clear the cache? and if jigdo bails somewhere in the middle, should i expect that i can simply resume it where it left off? trying again this morning with the original jigdo file just to reproduce the problem, the process did in fact (through sheer bad(?) luck) find a mirror with an older version of the aforementioned package so it was successful in downloading it. thusly, if this process terminates, i will eventually have a respin that is officially out of date with respect to at least one package. terrific. and, finally, even though i told pyjigdo that, yes, i want it to look under /media where i have the original F10 i386 DVD mounted, it *appears* to be in the process of downloading every one of the required 2303 packages. unlike with jigdo-lite, i didn't see any confirmation after the scan that it found, say, 1505/2303 packages, as i normally get with jigdo-lite. perhaps it did -- i have no way of knowing. in any event, i'm giving this one more try but, at this point, i don't see the value in investing a lot more time in this. it would be nice if the folks at fedoraunity at least *tested* their re-spin process before letting it loose on the public to waste copious amounts of time. rday -- Robert P. J. Day Linux Consulting, Training and Annoying Kernel Pedantry: Have classroom, will lecture. http://crashcourse.ca Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: without a truly working jigdo, re-spins are effectively useless
On Wed, 11 Mar 2009, Robert P. J. Day wrote: as an admittedly frustrated followup from yesterday, i am giving up on jigdo and its variations since, quite simply, at the moment, they don't work. and given that the fedora re-spins explicitly state that they are available currently only via jigdo, that makes those re-spins more than a little useless, wouldn't you say? (i'm going to take someone's advice and try that mock/punji combination and see if that actually functions.) to summarize, trying to build an F10 i386 respin with an original F10 i386 DVD first failed as the corresponding jigdo file had a reference to an out-of-date package (xorg-x11-drv-vmmouse), specifying a version of 12.6.3-1 when most mirrors had already moved on to a newer version of 12.6.3-3, causing jigdo to run through one mirror after another looking for an older version that it was unlikely to find. lesson 1: there's not much value in a jigdo file that's wrong. as a brief followup, once i got past *that* out-of-date reference, the next one i hit was kdelibs-devel-4.1.4-2, which has been replaced at all of the mirrors i've checked with kdelibs-devel-4.2.0-15. givin' up on jigdo and movin' on. life is too short for this. rday -- Robert P. J. Day Linux Consulting, Training and Annoying Kernel Pedantry: Have classroom, will lecture. http://crashcourse.ca Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: without a truly working jigdo, re-spins are effectively useless
Robert P. J. Day wrote: as an admittedly frustrated followup from yesterday, i am giving up on jigdo and its variations since, quite simply, at the moment, they don't work. and given that the fedora re-spins explicitly state that they are available currently only via jigdo, that makes those re-spins more than a little useless, wouldn't you say? (i'm going to take someone's advice and try that mock/punji combination and see if that actually functions.) to summarize, trying to build an F10 i386 respin with an original F10 i386 DVD first failed as the corresponding jigdo file had a reference to an out-of-date package (xorg-x11-drv-vmmouse), specifying a version of 12.6.3-1 when most mirrors had already moved on to a newer version of 12.6.3-3, causing jigdo to run through one mirror after another looking for an older version that it was unlikely to find. lesson 1: there's not much value in a jigdo file that's wrong. to correct the above error, it was suggested that i simply edit the jigdo file and fix the problem. possibly, but i don't see why that should be *my* job, and all that's going to do is perhaps get me to the *next* out-of-date reference (whatever that might be). lesson 2: see lesson 1. moving on, even editing the .jigdo file didn't fix the problem because, for some reason, retarting jigdo (and now pointing at the local jigdo file instead of the web URL) still somehow kept looking for the older version of that package. grrr. time to clear the cache? and if jigdo bails somewhere in the middle, should i expect that i can simply resume it where it left off? trying again this morning with the original jigdo file just to reproduce the problem, the process did in fact (through sheer bad(?) luck) find a mirror with an older version of the aforementioned package so it was successful in downloading it. thusly, if this process terminates, i will eventually have a respin that is officially out of date with respect to at least one package. terrific. and, finally, even though i told pyjigdo that, yes, i want it to look under /media where i have the original F10 i386 DVD mounted, it *appears* to be in the process of downloading every one of the required 2303 packages. unlike with jigdo-lite, i didn't see any confirmation after the scan that it found, say, 1505/2303 packages, as i normally get with jigdo-lite. perhaps it did -- i have no way of knowing. in any event, i'm giving this one more try but, at this point, i don't see the value in investing a lot more time in this. it would be nice if the folks at fedoraunity at least *tested* their re-spin process before letting it loose on the public to waste copious amounts of time. rday -- Robert P. J. Day Linux Consulting, Training and Annoying Kernel Pedantry: Have classroom, will lecture. http://crashcourse.ca Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA why not just download the respin over torrent? http://spins.fedoraunity.org/unity/torrent-files-fedora-10-20090210-re-spin -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: without a truly working jigdo, re-spins are effectively useless
On Wed, 11 Mar 2009, psmith wrote: Robert P. J. Day wrote: ... bitch bitch bitch whine whine whine ... :-) why not just download the respin over torrent? http://spins.fedoraunity.org/unity/torrent-files-fedora-10-20090210-re-spin while that is *a* solution, it still requires more bandwidth than jigdo should use. i'm just saying that, if fedora proposes a particular download technique, it should at least work. rday p.s. for some corporate environments (like mine), jigdo is acceptable through the corporate firewall, while bittorrent isn't. so i don't have that choice. Robert P. J. Day Linux Consulting, Training and Annoying Kernel Pedantry: Have classroom, will lecture. http://crashcourse.ca Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: without a truly working jigdo, re-spins are effectively useless
Robert P. J. Day wrote: On Wed, 11 Mar 2009, psmith wrote: Robert P. J. Day wrote: ... bitch bitch bitch whine whine whine ... :-) why not just download the respin over torrent? http://spins.fedoraunity.org/unity/torrent-files-fedora-10-20090210-re-spin while that is *a* solution, it still requires more bandwidth than jigdo should use. i'm just saying that, if fedora proposes a particular download technique, it should at least work. rday p.s. for some corporate environments (like mine), jigdo is acceptable through the corporate firewall, while bittorrent isn't. so i don't have that choice. Robert P. J. Day Linux Consulting, Training and Annoying Kernel Pedantry: Have classroom, will lecture. http://crashcourse.ca Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA well my solution was to setup a local repo using the F10 dvd as a source, then use revisor with a modified arch.conf file with the local repo having priority over everything but updates, and a kickstart set for whatever arch your building for. this way you only download the updated packages and make the install media for the arch of your choice phil -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: without a truly working jigdo, re-spins are effectively useless
On 3/11/2009 9:52 AM, Robert P. J. Day wrote: On Wed, 11 Mar 2009, psmith wrote: Robert P. J. Day wrote: ... bitch bitch bitch whine whine whine ... :-) why not just download the respin over torrent? http://spins.fedoraunity.org/unity/torrent-files-fedora-10-20090210-re-spin while that is *a* solution, it still requires more bandwidth than jigdo should use. i'm just saying that, if fedora proposes a particular download technique, it should at least work. FedoraUnity is in no way connected to Fedora. Fedora's official jigdo offerring will update, for example, a Fedora 9 DVD to an ISO of Fedora 10. Or the CDs if you prefer. You can make a DVD from the CD or the reverse if you choose. It does *not* contain anything that has changed. The updates FedoraUnity's jigdo, this one, updates a Fedora official release to the release with updates substituted for the original packages. The jigdo file that you were trying to use is about one month old so I am not surprised that some of the 'updates' have been replaced with 'newer updates'. I told you that it was alright to edit any of those changes. Fedora and FedoraUnity have no control over the transfer speed of any mirror. There used to be a way to 'fix' that but I an not sure that it still works. I, myself, run a Rawhide system but I have used the CLI of jigdo to make updated Fedora 8 DVDs, Fedora 9 DVDs, and even Fedora 10 DVDs from the jigdo files offered by FedoraUnity. Both the x86 and x86_64 types. So jigdo does work. Quite well actually. -- David -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: without a truly working jigdo, re-spins are effectively useless
On Wed, 11 Mar 2009, David wrote: On 3/11/2009 9:52 AM, Robert P. J. Day wrote: On Wed, 11 Mar 2009, psmith wrote: Robert P. J. Day wrote: ... bitch bitch bitch whine whine whine ... :-) why not just download the respin over torrent? http://spins.fedoraunity.org/unity/torrent-files-fedora-10-20090210-re-spin while that is *a* solution, it still requires more bandwidth than jigdo should use. i'm just saying that, if fedora proposes a particular download technique, it should at least work. FedoraUnity is in no way connected to Fedora. slight rant on technically, i know that, but perhaps red hat should start protecting its brand a bit more aggressively. go to fedoraunity.org: http://fedoraunity.org/ everything about that site screams fedora. the name. the icon. the colour scheme. the wording: Welcome to the Fedora Unity Project by The Fedora Unity Team — last modified Dec 13, 2007 07:09 PM sorry, but i just don't have much patience with someone telling me that those two things are in no way connected. if fedora wants to disavow any connection to fedora unity, it should demand that the unity site doesn't work so hard to look like fedora. or at least have a *major* disclaimer at the very top making that clear. /rant rday -- Robert P. J. Day Linux Consulting, Training and Annoying Kernel Pedantry: Have classroom, will lecture. http://crashcourse.ca Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: without a truly working jigdo, re-spins are effectively useless
On Wednesday 11 March 2009 15:17:53 Robert P. J. Day wrote: ... slight rant on technically, i know that, but perhaps red hat should start protecting its brand a bit more aggressively. go to fedoraunity.org: http://fedoraunity.org/ everything about that site screams fedora. the name. the icon. the colour scheme. the wording: Welcome to the Fedora Unity Project by The Fedora Unity Team — last modified Dec 13, 2007 07:09 PM sorry, but i just don't have much patience with someone telling me that those two things are in no way connected. if fedora wants to disavow any connection to fedora unity, it should demand that the unity site doesn't work so hard to look like fedora. or at least have a *major* disclaimer at the very top making that clear. /rant It might pay them to move the following item to the *top* of the re-spins page ... and emphasise the word unofficial :o) Who produces the Re-Spins? Are they official Fedora Project releases? — by The Fedora Unity Team — last modified Mar 11, 2008 08:29 AM The Fedora Unity Project, which is an unofficial community project, produces the Re-Spins using packages and processes from the official Fedora Project. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: without a truly working jigdo, re-spins are effectively useless
On Wed, 11 Mar 2009, Bill Crawford wrote: On Wednesday 11 March 2009 15:17:53 Robert P. J. Day wrote: ... slight rant on technically, i know that, but perhaps red hat should start protecting its brand a bit more aggressively. go to fedoraunity.org: http://fedoraunity.org/ everything about that site screams fedora. the name. the icon. the colour scheme. the wording: Welcome to the Fedora Unity Project by The Fedora Unity Team — last modified Dec 13, 2007 07:09 PM sorry, but i just don't have much patience with someone telling me that those two things are in no way connected. if fedora wants to disavow any connection to fedora unity, it should demand that the unity site doesn't work so hard to look like fedora. or at least have a *major* disclaimer at the very top making that clear. /rant It might pay them to move the following item to the *top* of the re-spins page ... and emphasise the word unofficial :o) Who produces the Re-Spins? Are they official Fedora Project releases? — by The Fedora Unity Team — last modified Mar 11, 2008 08:29 AM The Fedora Unity Project, which is an unofficial community project, produces the Re-Spins using packages and processes from the official Fedora Project. that would be a start, but it still wouldn't address the problem of the current jigdo files (all right, at least the F10 i386 DVD jigdo file) having at least two out-of-date package references. and, no, it's not really acceptable to tell people who want to use it to manually edit the jigdo file to fix stuff like that. that kind of defeats the purpose of advertising a user-friendly way to get upgrades. and on that note, i'll shut up now. rday -- Robert P. J. Day Linux Consulting, Training and Annoying Kernel Pedantry: Have classroom, will lecture. http://crashcourse.ca Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: without a truly working jigdo, re-spins are effectively useless
On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 7:48 AM, Robert P. J. Day rpj...@crashcourse.ca wrote: On Wed, 11 Mar 2009, Bill Crawford wrote: On Wednesday 11 March 2009 15:17:53 Robert P. J. Day wrote: ... slight rant on technically, i know that, but perhaps red hat should start protecting its brand a bit more aggressively. go to fedoraunity.org: http://fedoraunity.org/ everything about that site screams fedora. the name. the icon. the colour scheme. the wording: Welcome to the Fedora Unity Project by The Fedora Unity Team — last modified Dec 13, 2007 07:09 PM sorry, but i just don't have much patience with someone telling me that those two things are in no way connected. if fedora wants to disavow any connection to fedora unity, it should demand that the unity site doesn't work so hard to look like fedora. or at least have a *major* disclaimer at the very top making that clear. /rant It might pay them to move the following item to the *top* of the re-spins page ... and emphasise the word unofficial :o) Who produces the Re-Spins? Are they official Fedora Project releases? — by The Fedora Unity Team — last modified Mar 11, 2008 08:29 AM The Fedora Unity Project, which is an unofficial community project, produces the Re-Spins using packages and processes from the official Fedora Project. that would be a start, but it still wouldn't address the problem of the current jigdo files (all right, at least the F10 i386 DVD jigdo file) having at least two out-of-date package references. and, no, it's not really acceptable to tell people who want to use it to manually edit the jigdo file to fix stuff like that. that kind of defeats the purpose of advertising a user-friendly way to get upgrades. and on that note, i'll shut up now. rday -- Robert, are you really done with your ranting? If not, go sit in the corner and sulk some more. Fedora Unity Project is a volunteer based work product. Like many such groups they are understaffed. Be thankful that they are only a month behind the latest release. You probably don't remember when their respins were 3 or more months behind. Give the folks a break or even better a hand. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: without a truly working jigdo, re-spins are effectively useless
On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 9:18 AM, Robert P. J. Day rpj...@crashcourse.ca wrote: sure, i'm willing to help out, but it (finally) dawned on me that there's always going to be a fundamental drawback with the way jigdo is being supported. when the re-spin is created, it will of course be current with the packages at all the mirrors. however, once packages are upgraded beyond that, the older packages will be dropped and the (static) re-spin will no longer match what's at all the mirrors. the more time passes, the more packages will fail to match. so what's the solution? I, for one, am thankful for your rant. Before reading this thread, I had considered using jigdo because I thought it worked in some sensible way, like, Make me a spin with these packages; get them from updates if they are there. Now that I know that the jigdo files are version-specific, I won't even give it a try. Thanks for saving me a ton of time! -Alan -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: without a truly working jigdo, re-spins are effectively useless
On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 9:13 AM, Alan Evans ame.fed...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 9:18 AM, Robert P. J. Day rpj...@crashcourse.ca wrote: sure, i'm willing to help out, but it (finally) dawned on me that there's always going to be a fundamental drawback with the way jigdo is being supported. when the re-spin is created, it will of course be current with the packages at all the mirrors. however, once packages are upgraded beyond that, the older packages will be dropped and the (static) re-spin will no longer match what's at all the mirrors. the more time passes, the more packages will fail to match. so what's the solution? I, for one, am thankful for your rant. Before reading this thread, I had considered using jigdo because I thought it worked in some sensible way, like, Make me a spin with these packages; get them from updates if they are there. Now that I know that the jigdo files are version-specific, I won't even give it a try. Thanks for saving me a ton of time! -Alan Jigdo was created for the Debian community. The Debian Stable release is known for its stability, i.e. slow change. Jigdo has its use in the scheme of things. However, using it to stay current with a high churn release such as Fedora is not one of them. The ideal candidate for Jigdo is a slow changing distribution such as CentOS, Debian, and Ubuntu LTS. Even if you create a respin with a package list that is a month old after an install there will be fewer packages to update. This is especially beneficial when installing on multiple machines or one that has a slow or limited access internet connection. By the way, when Fedora Unity Project first used Jigdo Fedora Core was a relatively slow changing distribution. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
