Re: [Felvtalk] Dietary Supplements- Belinda
It's an aluminum binder, its to bind the phosphorus because some CRF kitties have trouble with their phosphorus getting high and if it get too high it causes real problems. When Fred's phosphorus was at 8.1 which for a healthykitty is fine but for a CRF kitty is too high, he wouldn't eat was vomiting bile and just generally didn't feel good. My vet kept telling me that number was OK but after hearing from more than one person on the CRF list that this was too high for a CRF kitty especially if they were having issues with not eating and vomiting I decided to get the binders and give them to Fred, within days he was eating better and no more vomiting. He's been getting them ever since. A CRF cat shouldn't have a phosphorus level above 5, mid 4's is perfect. Same with the potassium, Fred pees too much of his potassium out and as a consequence his potassium was in the low 3's (3.1, 3.2), which is in the normal range. But from the list I learned CRF kitties do best when they maintain a mid 4 range potassium and that is why Fred has lost all of his muscle mass, my vet insisted 3.2 was normal and OK, but Fred kept getting weaker and weaker, so I decided to start him on potassium supplements, by then he had already lost a lot of muscle mass and to this day he can't jump up on anything and I have stairs all over the house so he can get up on his bed and anywhere else he likes to go. Even while getting 1100mg of potassium his potassium went from 4.1 which it took me forever to get it to, to 3.8 so I asked my vet again to let me give it to him in the fluids and she finally agreed, he still gets 550mg orally too and in three weeks it went to 4.1 again. But all the time I was begging her to let me give it in his fluids and he was getting weaker and weaker he also developed a heart murmur and I absolutely believe the heart murmur and severe muscle loss so fast is because of his potassium being so low for so long. I love my vet but sometimes I am not forceful enough but I am getting better, I just wish it hadn't cost Fred so much ... all of this would eventually happen with CRF but it may have taken a lot longer if I would have been more forceful in trying to talk my vet into things I was sure Fred needed. I buy a lot of supplements and vitamins at http://iherb.com, they are quick with shipping and the customer service is great. They have a really good selection of things and many name brands to choose from. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... http://bemikitties.com http://BelindaSauro.com ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Dietary Supplements- Belinda
Belinds, Your Skeeter story is too funny! There is definitely a such thing as too much of a good thing! LOL. Ah! So Skeeter did receive a DL Methionine prescription! Perhaps I should replace my cranberry for this. However, if I do that, I lose the Vitamin C and Vitamin E as the cranberry is a multi-vitamin supplement. That means instead of the standard 4 pills ( L-lysine, C Q 10, Cranberry & Fish Oil) that my kids get daily, they will now receive six (L-lysine, C Q 10, fish oil, DL Methionine, Vitamin C & Vitamin E.) Is there anyway to combine these supplements i.e. DL Methionine & Vitamin E, Vitamin C & E, etc.? I suppose I will need to shop around for multi-vitamins. I thought Fred was on a phosphorus binders and not an aluminum binder. Unless the aluminum contains phosphorus there is no potential damage of developing Struvite crystals. Struvite crystals are only made up of magnesium, ammonium and phosphate. Cosequin (or C Q 10) is not for the use of FLUTD. My kids get it for heart health, cell growth and free radical prevention. --- On Wed, 8/12/09, Belinda Sauro wrote: Lora, Way back in the 1990's my Skeeter had something. He couldn't pee and I took him in just in time. I can't remember what it was called back then. He would get cyrstals and he had to take a DL Methionine pill everyday. I think he was also on special food for a while too but as long as he got his pill (which he loved and would take and eat willingly) he could pretty much eat anything he wanted. In fact, a few years after he was on the pill, I stored them in a jar with a lid, the lid wasn't tight fitting just sat on top of the jar. Well, Skeeter got in the cupboard where I kept them and ate a whole bunch of them. He vomited quite a bit and after that he wasn't so keen on them. Guess he found out the hard way too much of a good thing isn't always so good. He still took them, just not quite so happily! He was on it for years with no problems. The aluminum binder Fred gets is used by most people on the list of over 11,000 members and so far none of the kitties that I know of have ever had a problem with crystals. But I will keep that in mind because on occasion Fred acts like it may be uncomfortable to pee, he always does, buckets but I will keep that in mind if I notice he is acting uncomfortable. I give Fred the cosequin for his arthritis, can't say I have ever heard it mentioned for use with FLUTD, if I remember I'll ask my vet next time Fred goes in or I talk with her ... in fact I need to buy more of it I'm on my last 6 pills. Don't know exactly what D-Mannose is, I think it is a more natural supplement, I haven't had to use it yet but I may seriously think about since Fred does seem to be uncomfortable sometimes when peeing, I think it can go right in the food so that would be good. Guess I'll be doing some more research on that one. Anyone else use it or have more info in it?? -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... http://bemikitties.com http://BelindaSauro.com ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Dietary Supplements- Belinda
PS. I give meds to 3 of my 5 guys now and surprisingly considering the last one that I had to start on meds has never had to take anything, she is very good about it, thank goodness. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... http://bemikitties.com http://BelindaSauro.com ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Dietary Supplements- Belinda
Lora, Way back in the 1990's my Skeeter had something, he couldn't pee and I took him in just in time, I can't remember what it was called back then, he would get cyrstals, he had to take a DL Methionine pill everyday, I think he was also on special food for a while too but as long as he got his pill which he loved and would take and eat willingly he could pretty much eat anything he wanted. In fact a few years after he was on the pill, I stored them in a jar with a lid, the lid wasn't tight fitting just sat on top of the jar ... well Skeeter got in the cupboard where I kept them and ate a whole bunch of them. He vomited quite a bit and after that he wasn't so keen on them, guess he found out the hard way too much of a good thing isn't always so good, he still took them, just not quite so happily!! He was on it for years with no problems. The aluminum binder Fred gets is used by most people on the list of over 11,000 members and so far none of the kitties that I know of have ever had a problem with crystals. But I will keep that in mind because on occasion Fred acts like it may be uncomfortable to pee, he always does, buckets but I will keep that in mind if I notice he is acting uncomfortable. I give Fred the cosequin for his arthritis, can't say I have ever heard it mentioned for use with FLUTD, if I remember I'll ask my vet next time Fred goes in or I talk with her ... in fact I need to buy more of it I'm on my last 6 pills. Don't know exactly what D-Mannose is, I think it is a more natural supplement, I haven't had to use it yet but I may seriously think about since Fred does seem to be uncomfortable sometimes when peeing, I think it can go right in the food so that would be good. Guess I'll be doing some more research on that one. Anyone else use it or have more info in it?? -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... http://bemikitties.com http://BelindaSauro.com ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Dietary Supplements- Belinda
Have you looked at colostrum On Aug 11, 2009, at 6:11 PM, Lora wrote: Belinda, Thanks for your reply. You are the only one who did. I sincerely appreciate it. I realize that some cats are more difficult to pill that others. Thank God I have conditioned my kids to take their meds. Granted some do resist, but they have learned that if they do not take their meds, they did not get their wet cat food. Once they realize that, they eventually warm up to the idea. They REALLY want their wet cat food; therefore, the sacrifice is worth the reward. And that is EXACTLY they way I play it off. I "reward" them with their wet cat food for "taking" their meds. I call it praise, they call it "treats"! However, you cannot just spontaneously start pilling a cat, especially if it is an older generic cat who has never been pilled before. You need to slowing introduce the producer to them, otherwise you will risk stressing out the cat and possibly scarring them for life. If pilling the cat becomes a frightening experience for them, they will definitely remember that and the you will most likely never be able to pill them again. I introduced my pilling method to the kids when they were very young; therefore, they have grown up with the idea of being pilled. However, for those who were permanently adopted into our multi-cat household in their later years had to slow warm up to the understanding of being pilled. For these cats, effective pilling was not an immediate over-night success. It took time and loving patience. Cats can be trained, thus the idea of the litter box, therefore, they can be trained to accept pilled medication without fear, stress or discomfort just as long as the pet-guardian realized to take the efforts in stride. Do everything on the cats terms. Never force them. If they refuse their medication, withhold the treat. Do not starve the cat as punishment for not taking their medicating. Instead, withhold their FAVORITE food item. Offer THAT when introducing the pill. They will being to socialize that particular "treat" with medication and will quickly realize that it is ONLY offered when medication is administered. Cats are extremely quick-minded and fast learners. Eventually they will put two and two together. After the treat method has been completely successful, the pet- guardian can do the bait and switch method with the "treat". Gradually ween the cat from its favorite treat to their favorite flavor of wet cat food. Eventually, the pet-guardian will be administering the proper medication during actual meal-time instead of during treat-time. However, if the bait and switch method never successfully works out, and with some cats it won't as most generic cats hate food and/or environmental change, just simply bite the bullet and stick with the treat/med method. Use what works best for your cat. Remember you want the cat to LIKE being pilled; therefore, if the cat is happy with the "reward" he/she will be happy to be pilled. Belinda, regarding Fred with his potassium supplements and phosphorus binders in his food for his high phosphorus, would that not cause him to be prone to developing Struvite crystals (magnesium, ammonium, phosphate)? I did not know this about cranberries. What is D-Mannose? I have also read that a dietary supplement called D,L-methionine may be used to alter urinary pH. And a dietary supplement called Cosequin® (containing glucosamine) is advocated by some practitioners to reduce pain and inflammation in the bladders of cats with FLUTD. http://drbarchas.com/flutd Do you know anything about this? --- On Sun, 8/9/09, Belinda Sauro wrote: Lora, I don't have an positives left, Bailey was my last and I lost him in 2006. I do however have a furkid with HCM and one with CRF & a heart murmur. I do know that taurine and CoQ-10 are good for the heart and lysine is good over all for the immune system. My cats aren't great about getting pills, so I only give them what they absolutely need. Joey get benazapril and amlodipine for his HCM. Fred gets the same for his high blood pressure and heart murmur, plus he gets potassium supplements and phosphorus binders in his food for his high phosphorus. All 5 of mine, get a vit b shots once a week too. I can get away with giving them that because that is an injection, not a pill. The only thing I probably wouldn't use is the cranberry. According to the CRF site that I read for answers when Fred is am having problems. This is not a vets site only a person who has been for many years collecting info and who has many years of experience with CRF. Not only her experiences but a CRF group with over 1200 members and another CRF group she is a member of with over 11,000 members, I am a member of both groups. This site is an accumulation of all those years and members experiences. This is a quote
Re: [Felvtalk] Dietary Supplements- Belinda
Belinda, Thanks for your reply. You are the only one who did. I sincerely appreciate it. I realize that some cats are more difficult to pill that others. Thank God I have conditioned my kids to take their meds. Granted some do resist, but they have learned that if they do not take their meds, they did not get their wet cat food. Once they realize that, they eventually warm up to the idea. They REALLY want their wet cat food; therefore, the sacrifice is worth the reward. And that is EXACTLY they way I play it off. I "reward" them with their wet cat food for "taking" their meds. I call it praise, they call it "treats"! However, you cannot just spontaneously start pilling a cat, especially if it is an older generic cat who has never been pilled before. You need to slowing introduce the producer to them, otherwise you will risk stressing out the cat and possibly scarring them for life. If pilling the cat becomes a frightening experience for them, they will definitely remember that and the you will most likely never be able to pill them again. I introduced my pilling method to the kids when they were very young; therefore, they have grown up with the idea of being pilled. However, for those who were permanently adopted into our multi-cat household in their later years had to slow warm up to the understanding of being pilled. For these cats, effective pilling was not an immediate over-night success. It took time and loving patience. Cats can be trained, thus the idea of the litter box, therefore, they can be trained to accept pilled medication without fear, stress or discomfort just as long as the pet-guardian realized to take the efforts in stride. Do everything on the cats terms. Never force them. If they refuse their medication, withhold the treat. Do not starve the cat as punishment for not taking their medicating. Instead, withhold their FAVORITE food item. Offer THAT when introducing the pill. They will being to socialize that particular "treat" with medication and will quickly realize that it is ONLY offered when medication is administered. Cats are extremely quick-minded and fast learners. Eventually they will put two and two together. After the treat method has been completely successful, the pet-guardian can do the bait and switch method with the "treat". Gradually ween the cat from its favorite treat to their favorite flavor of wet cat food. Eventually, the pet-guardian will be administering the proper medication during actual meal-time instead of during treat-time. However, if the bait and switch method never successfully works out, and with some cats it won't as most generic cats hate food and/or environmental change, just simply bite the bullet and stick with the treat/med method. Use what works best for your cat. Remember you want the cat to LIKE being pilled; therefore, if the cat is happy with the "reward" he/she will be happy to be pilled. Belinda, regarding Fred with his potassium supplements and phosphorus binders in his food for his high phosphorus, would that not cause him to be prone to developing Struvite crystals (magnesium, ammonium, phosphate)? I did not know this about cranberries. What is D-Mannose? I have also read that a dietary supplement called D,L-methionine may be used to alter urinary pH. And a dietary supplement called Cosequin® (containing glucosamine) is advocated by some practitioners to reduce pain and inflammation in the bladders of cats with FLUTD. http://drbarchas.com/flutd Do you know anything about this? --- On Sun, 8/9/09, Belinda Sauro wrote: Lora, I don't have an positives left, Bailey was my last and I lost him in 2006. I do however have a furkid with HCM and one with CRF & a heart murmur. I do know that taurine and CoQ-10 are good for the heart and lysine is good over all for the immune system. My cats aren't great about getting pills, so I only give them what they absolutely need. Joey get benazapril and amlodipine for his HCM. Fred gets the same for his high blood pressure and heart murmur, plus he gets potassium supplements and phosphorus binders in his food for his high phosphorus. All 5 of mine, get a vit b shots once a week too. I can get away with giving them that because that is an injection, not a pill. The only thing I probably wouldn't use is the cranberry. According to the CRF site that I read for answers when Fred is am having problems. This is not a vets site only a person who has been for many years collecting info and who has many years of experience with CRF. Not only her experiences but a CRF group with over 1200 members and another CRF group she is a member of with over 11,000 members, I am a member of both groups. This site is an accumulation of all those years and members experiences. This is a quote from that site about cranberry: *_Cranberry_* You should avoid giving cranberry or food containing cranberry to CRF cats - it is too acidic for CRF cats, who tend to
