Re: Moses tested FeLv+ and FeLv- I'm confused!
PCR is unreliable and a waste of money. You must wait 120 days tobe sure of ANY test result by ANY means, due to the nature of the virus: Cats will test positive around 30 days post-exposure on the ELISA test. The pathogenesis of FeLV can take one of three paths. Cats can be transiently infected and then clear the virus around 12–16 weeks after exposure (meaning they can test positive, and then "turn" negative after around90-120 days). They can also develop a latent infection, in which case both the ELISA FeLV Test and IFA test will be negative. Latently infected cats can harbor the virus in their bone marrow for years with no clinical signs. Most latently infected cats can eventually clear the infection, but in a small percentage, the virus can reactivate and clinical FeLV can occur later in life. This reactivation of latent virus explains why a nine-year-old cat that has tested negative and lived indoors alone may suddenly become ill and test positive for FeLV. Cats can also be persistently infected, clinical or nonclinical, but these cats may be shedding virus. Phaewryn Please adopt a cat from Little Cheetah Cat Rescue!!! http://ucat.us/adopt.html Low cost SpayNeuter services in VT, and Emergency Financial Assistance for cat owners:http://ucat.us/VermontLowCost.htmlSpecial Needs Cat Resources: http://ucat.us/domesticcatlinks.html The Sofa Poem: http://ucat.us/sofapoem.htmlFind us on PETFINDER! http://petfinder.com/shelters/VT44.html No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.14.5/534 - Release Date: 11/14/2006
Re: Moses tested FeLv+ and FeLv- I'm confused!
Well, I guess I have six of one and half a dozen of the other. About evenly divided for PCR being the best test ever and PCR being useless. Groan! - Original Message - From: Jennifer Phaewryn O'Gwynn To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2006 3:53 PM Subject: Re: Moses tested FeLv+ and FeLv- I'm confused! PCR is unreliable and a waste of money. You must wait 120 days to be sure of ANY test result by ANY means, due to the nature of the virus: Cats will test positive around 30 days post-exposure on the ELISA test. The pathogenesis of FeLV can take one of three paths. Cats can be transiently infected and then clear the virus around 12–16 weeks after exposure (meaning they can test positive, and then turn negative after around 90-120 days). They can also develop a latent infection, in which case both the ELISA FeLV Test and IFA test will be negative. Latently infected cats can harbor the virus in their bone marrow for years with no clinical signs. Most latently infected cats can eventually clear the infection, but in a small percentage, the virus can reactivate and clinical FeLV can occur later in life. This reactivation of latent virus explains why a nine-year-old cat that has tested negative and lived indoors alone may suddenly become ill and test positive for FeLV. Cats can also be persistently infected, clinical or nonclinical, but these cats may be shedding virus. Phaewryn Please adopt a cat from Little Cheetah Cat Rescue!!! http://ucat.us/adopt.html Low cost SpayNeuter services in VT, and Emergency Financial Assistance for cat owners: http://ucat.us/VermontLowCost.html Special Needs Cat Resources: http://ucat.us/domesticcatlinks.html The Sofa Poem: http://ucat.us/sofapoem.html Find us on PETFINDER! http://petfinder.com/shelters/VT44.html -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.14.5/534 - Release Date: 11/14/2006
Re: Moses tested FeLv+ and FeLv- I'm confused!
Depends on the lab and you never know WHAT lab your vet is going to send it to. Let me put it this way, a very valid study was done on the PCR test for FIV (which, granted is different from FELV), and they tested several cats, some who were positive, some were negative, and they threw in some DOG BLOOD, just as a control. The PCR found FELINE FIV in the DOG blood. To me, that's pretty much the definition of unreliable. http://www.vin.com/mainpub/feline/aafpfelvdx.htm states: 16. Other confirmatory tests, such as methodologies utilizing polymerase chain reaction (PCR), may be useful but are currently unvalidated. Although PCR offers a promising approach to FeLV testing, currently neither production of PCR reagents (primers) nor testing protocols is standardized or consistent. Phaewryn Please adopt a cat from Little Cheetah Cat Rescue!!! http://ucat.us/adopt.html Low cost SpayNeuter services in VT, and Emergency Financial Assistance for cat owners: http://ucat.us/VermontLowCost.html Special Needs Cat Resources: http://ucat.us/domesticcatlinks.html The Sofa Poem: http://ucat.us/sofapoem.html Find us on PETFINDER! http://petfinder.com/shelters/VT44.html No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.14.5/534 - Release Date: 11/14/2006
Re: Moses tested FeLv+ and FeLv- I'm confused!
If done correctly it's the same as a DNA test. I don't feel like I wasted my money. PCR is unreliable and a waste of money -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com
Moses tested FeLv+ and FeLv- I'm confused!
We recently rescued a tame "feral" cat from an apartment complex where peoplemove out and leave their cats to fend for themselves. I named him Moses. Since he comes from an area where all the feral cats tested negative on their combo test, I wasn't very worried. I took him in for his free spay and vaccine and because he was tame, I had him combo tested because I was going to foster him at my house until I could get him adopted or intoanother foster situation. Unfortunately he tested positive for FeLv. I really couldn't believe it and the clinic where he was neutered has been known to make awful mistakes so I took him to the vet I use for my own housecats and he again tested positive on the ELISA test. I boarded him at the clinic while I discussed the situation with my rescue partner who had been the one to catch him in a cat carrier. We decided to do the IFA test immediately rather than wait 3 months and test again with the ELISA. Three months in a cage in a clinic is not the way to make a cat happy and it's expensive. We do NOT kill cats who test positive for FIV or FeLv. So the IFA test was done and it came back NEGATIVE. We were happy. My vet called Texas AM. They told him that if the IFA was negative, we should consider the cat negative. Just to be sure though, they said, keep him isolated for another month or two and then test again with the ELISA. At this point I wanted to scream. After that, my vet mentioned a test called the PCR. A friend googled it and found that it tests for FeLv that might not show up on either the ELISA or the IFA. Unfortunately, Cornell University Laboratory doesn't do the PCR. It's popular in the UK but apparently hasn't taken hold here in the USA. Does anyone have any experience with this test and also, what am I supposed to do with Moses? Should I consider him FeLv+ or negative? I took him home and isolated him in a spare bathroom. I only have one bathroom left now. If I get another cat in to recover for TNR, I'll have to build an outhouse for myself. Sigh. Any answers will be greatly appreciated.Incidentally, Moses is a healthy, shiny-furred black cat with an excellent appetite. He's about 2 years old. I have his "wife" and son who both tested negative in the ELISA. Lee
Re: Moses tested FeLv+ and FeLv- I'm confused!
UC Davis does this test and it is very inexpensive (relatively). I think this is the link. http://www.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/ccah/Homesite%20Images/Diagnostic%20PCR%20Price%20Schedule.doc If you have men who will exclude any of God's creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who will deal likewise with their fellow man. St. Francis - Original Message - From: Lee Evans To: Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 4:40 PM Subject: Moses tested FeLv+ and FeLv- I'm confused! We recently rescued a tame "feral" cat from an apartment complex where peoplemove out and leave their cats to fend for themselves. I named him Moses. Since he comes from an area where all the feral cats tested negative on their combo test, I wasn't very worried. I took him in for his free spay and vaccine and because he was tame, I had him combo tested because I was going to foster him at my house until I could get him adopted or intoanother foster situation. Unfortunately he tested positive for FeLv. I really couldn't believe it and the clinic where he was neutered has been known to make awful mistakes so I took him to the vet I use for my own housecats and he again tested positive on the ELISA test. I boarded him at the clinic while I discussed the situation with my rescue partner who had been the one to catch him in a cat carrier. We decided to do the IFA test immediately rather than wait 3 months and test again with the ELISA. Three months in a cage in a clinic is not the way to make a cat happy and it's expensive. We do NOT kill cats who test positive for FIV or FeLv. So the IFA test was done and it came back NEGATIVE. We were happy. My vet called Texas AM. They told him that if the IFA was negative, we should consider the cat negative. Just to be sure though, they said, keep him isolated for another month or two and then test again with the ELISA. At this point I wanted to scream. After that, my vet mentioned a test called the PCR. A friend googled it and found that it tests for FeLv that might not show up on either the ELISA or the IFA. Unfortunately, Cornell University Laboratory doesn't do the PCR. It's popular in the UK but apparently hasn't taken hold here in the USA. Does anyone have any experience with this test and also, what am I supposed to do with Moses? Should I consider him FeLv+ or negative? I took him home and isolated him in a spare bathroom. I only have one bathroom left now. If I get another cat in to recover for TNR, I'll have to build an outhouse for myself. Sigh. Any answers will be greatly appreciated.Incidentally, Moses is a healthy, shiny-furred black cat with an excellent appetite. He's about 2 years old. I have his "wife" and son who both tested negative in the ELISA. Lee
Re: Moses tested FeLv+ and FeLv- I'm confused!
I believe Guelph University in Canada does PCR testing, there's a list member in Canada who used them. It's a sticky situation and up to personal comfort levels as to whether or not people mix their FeLV+ and FeLV- kitties - there are both "types" of people on this list. I do know that no one on this list who mixes has had a vaccinated negative turn positive. Our thoughts are with you!Barb+Smoky the House Puma+El Bandito Malito"My cat the clown: paying no mind to whom he should impress. Merely living his life, doing what pleases him, and making me smile." - Anonymous - Original Message From: Lee Evans [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 4:40:17 PMSubject: Moses tested FeLv+ and FeLv- I'm confused! We recently rescued a tame "feral" cat from an apartment complex where peoplemove out and leave their cats to fend for themselves. I named him Moses. Since he comes from an area where all the feral cats tested negative on their combo test, I wasn't very worried. I took him in for his free spay and vaccine and because he was tame, I had him combo tested because I was going to foster him at my house until I could get him adopted or intoanother foster situation. Unfortunately he tested positive for FeLv. I really couldn't believe it and the clinic where he was neutered has been known to make awful mistakes so I took him to the vet I use for my own housecats and he again tested positive on the ELISA test. I boarded him at the clinic while I discussed the situation with my rescue partner who had been the one to catch him in a cat carrier. We decided to do the IFA test immediately rather than wait 3 months and test again with the ELISA. Three months in a cage in a clinic is not the way to make a cat happy and it's expensive. We do NOT kill cats who test positive for FIV or FeLv. So the IFA test was done and it came back NEGATIVE. We were happy. My vet called Texas AM. They told him that if the IFA was negative, we should consider the cat negative. Just to be sure though, they said, keep him isolated for another month or two and then test again with the ELISA. At this point I wanted to scream. After that, my vet mentioned a test called the PCR. A friend googled it and found that it tests for FeLv that might not show up on either the ELISA or the IFA. Unfortunately, Cornell University Laboratory doesn't do the PCR. It's popular in the UK but apparently hasn't taken hold here in the USA. Does anyone have any experience with this test and also, what am I supposed to do with Moses? Should I consider him FeLv+ or negative? I took him home and isolated him in a spare bathroom. I only have one bathroom left now. If I get another cat in to recover for TNR, I'll have to build an outhouse for myself. Sigh. Any answers will be greatly appreciated.Incidentally, Moses is a healthy, shiny-furred black cat with an excellent appetite. He's about 2 years old. I have his "wife" and son who both tested negative in the ELISA. Lee
Re: Moses tested FeLv+ and FeLv- I'm confused!
Every time I click on this link it won't connect. Is the link okay? Leslie =^..^= On 11/14/06, Marylyn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: UC Davis does this test and it is very inexpensive (relatively). I think this is the link. http://www.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/ccah/Homesite%20Images/Diagnostic%20PCR%20Price%20Schedule.doc If you have men who will exclude any of God's creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who will deal likewise with their fellow man. St. Francis - Original Message - From: Lee Evans To: Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 4:40 PM Subject: Moses tested FeLv+ and FeLv- I'm confused! We recently rescued a tame feral cat from an apartment complex where peoplemove out and leave their cats to fend for themselves. I named him Moses. Since he comes from an area where all the feral cats tested negative on their combo test, I wasn't very worried. I took him in for his free spay and vaccine and because he was tame, I had him combo tested because I was going to foster him at my house until I could get him adopted or intoanother foster situation. Unfortunately he tested positive for FeLv. I really couldn't believe it and the clinic where he was neutered has been known to make awful mistakes so I took him to the vet I use for my own housecats and he again tested positive on the ELISA test. I boarded him at the clinic while I discussed the situation with my rescue partner who had been the one to catch him in a cat carrier. We decided to do the IFA test immediately rather than wait 3 months and test again with the ELISA. Three months in a cage in a clinic is not the way to make a cat happy and it's expensive. We do NOT kill cats who test positive for FIV or FeLv. So the IFA test was done and it came back NEGATIVE. We were happy. My vet called Texas AM. They told him that if the IFA was negative, we should consider the cat negative. Just to be sure though, they said, keep him isolated for another month or two and then test again with the ELISA. At this point I wanted to scream. After that, my vet mentioned a test called the PCR. A friend googled it and found that it tests for FeLv that might not show up on either the ELISA or the IFA. Unfortunately, Cornell University Laboratory doesn't do the PCR. It's popular in the UK but apparently hasn't taken hold here in the USA. Does anyone have any experience with this test and also, what am I supposed to do with Moses? Should I consider him FeLv+ or negative? I took him home and isolated him in a spare bathroom. I only have one bathroom left now. If I get another cat in to recover for TNR, I'll have to build an outhouse for myself. Sigh. Any answers will be greatly appreciated.Incidentally, Moses is a healthy, shiny-furred black cat with an excellent appetite. He's about 2 years old. I have his wife and son who both tested negative in the ELISA. Lee-- Leslie =^..^=To leave the world a better place - whether by a healthy child, a garden patch, or an improved social condition - that is to have succeeded.That only one life breathed easier because you lived - that is success. ---Ralph Waldo Emerson
Re: Moses tested FeLv+ and FeLv- I'm confused!
Hi Marilyn, UC Davies is a good idea. Unfortunately, your link is not for UC Davies but for a website that sells pet meds. I'm going to find the UC Davies website on Google and then wander around until I find what I need. Does anyone know if Texas AM offers the PCR test? Has anyone ever gotten a cat tested with the PCR? Lee - Original Message - From: Marylyn To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 5:05 PM Subject: Re: Moses tested FeLv+ and FeLv- I'm confused! UC Davis does this test and it is very inexpensive (relatively). I think this is the link. http://www.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/ccah/Homesite%20Images/Diagnostic%20PCR%20Price%20Schedule.doc If you have men who will exclude any of God's creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who will deal likewise with their fellow man. St. Francis - Original Message - From: Lee Evans To: Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 4:40 PM Subject: Moses tested FeLv+ and FeLv- I'm confused! We recently rescued a tame "feral" cat from an apartment complex where peoplemove out and leave their cats to fend for themselves. I named him Moses. Since he comes from an area where all the feral cats tested negative on their combo test, I wasn't very worried. I took him in for his free spay and vaccine and because he was tame, I had him combo tested because I was going to foster him at my house until I could get him adopted or intoanother foster situation. Unfortunately he tested positive for FeLv. I really couldn't believe it and the clinic where he was neutered has been known to make awful mistakes so I took him to the vet I use for my own housecats and he again tested positive on the ELISA test. I boarded him at the clinic while I discussed the situation with my rescue partner who had been the one to catch him in a cat carrier. We decided to do the IFA test immediately rather than wait 3 months and test again with the ELISA. Three months in a cage in a clinic is not the way to make a cat happy and it's expensive. We do NOT kill cats who test positive for FIV or FeLv. So the IFA test was done and it came back NEGATIVE. We were happy. My vet called Texas AM. They told him that if the IFA was negative, we should consider the cat negative. Just to be sure though, they said, keep him isolated for another month or two and then test again with the ELISA. At this point I wanted to scream. After that, my vet mentioned a test called the PCR. A friend googled it and found that it tests for FeLv that might not show up on either the ELISA or the IFA. Unfortunately, Cornell University Laboratory doesn't do the PCR. It's popular in the UK but apparently hasn't taken hold here in the USA. Does anyone have any experience with this test and also, what am I supposed to do with Moses? Should I consider him FeLv+ or negative? I took him home and isolated him in a spare bathroom. I only have one bathroom left now. If I get another cat in to recover for TNR, I'll have to build an outhouse for myself. Sigh. Any answers will be greatly appreciated.Incidentally, Moses is a healthy, shiny-furred black cat with an excellent appetite. He's about 2 years old. I have his "wife" and son who both tested negative in the ELISA. Lee
Re: Moses tested FeLv+ and FeLv- I'm confused!
I wasn't totally sure of the site myself. When you find the right one would you post it? If you have men who will exclude any of God's creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who will deal likewise with their fellow man. St. Francis - Original Message - From: Lee Evans To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 5:19 PM Subject: Re: Moses tested FeLv+ and FeLv- I'm confused! Hi Marilyn, UC Davies is a good idea. Unfortunately, your link is not for UC Davies but for a website that sells pet meds. I'm going to find the UC Davies website on Google and then wander around until I find what I need. Does anyone know if Texas AM offers the PCR test? Has anyone ever gotten a cat tested with the PCR? Lee - Original Message - From: Marylyn To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 5:05 PM Subject: Re: Moses tested FeLv+ and FeLv- I'm confused! UC Davis does this test and it is very inexpensive (relatively). I think this is the link. http://www.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/ccah/Homesite%20Images/Diagnostic%20PCR%20Price%20Schedule.doc If you have men who will exclude any of God's creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who will deal likewise with their fellow man. St. Francis - Original Message - From: Lee Evans To: Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 4:40 PM Subject: Moses tested FeLv+ and FeLv- I'm confused! We recently rescued a tame "feral" cat from an apartment complex where peoplemove out and leave their cats to fend for themselves. I named him Moses. Since he comes from an area where all the feral cats tested negative on their combo test, I wasn't very worried. I took him in for his free spay and vaccine and because he was tame, I had him combo tested because I was going to foster him at my house until I could get him adopted or intoanother foster situation. Unfortunately he tested positive for FeLv. I really couldn't believe it and the clinic where he was neutered has been known to make awful mistakes so I took him to the vet I use for my own housecats and he again tested positive on the ELISA test. I boarded him at the clinic while I discussed the situation with my rescue partner who had been the one to catch him in a cat carrier. We decided to do the IFA test immediately rather than wait 3 months and test again with the ELISA. Three months in a cage in a clinic is not the way to make a cat happy and it's expensive. We do NOT kill cats who test positive for FIV or FeLv. So the IFA test was done and it came back NEGATIVE. We were happy. My vet called Texas AM. They told him that if the IFA was negative, we should consider the cat negative. Just to be sure though, they said, keep him isolated for another month or two and then test again with the ELISA. At this point I wanted to scream. After that, my vet mentioned a test called the PCR. A friend googled it and found that it tests for FeLv that might not show up on either the ELISA or the IFA. Unfortunately, Cornell University Laboratory doesn't do the PCR. It's popular in the UK but apparently hasn't taken hold here in the USA. Does anyone have any experience with this test and also, what am I supposed to do with Moses? Should I consider him FeLv+ or negative? I took him home and isolated him in a spare bathroom. I only have one bathroom left now. If I get another cat in to recover for TNR, I'll have to build an outhouse for myself. Sigh. Any answers will be greatly appreciated.Incidentally, Moses is a healthy, shiny-furred black cat with an excellent appetite. He's about 2 years old. I have his "wife" and son who both tested negative in the ELISA. Lee
Re: Moses tested FeLv+ and FeLv- I'm confused!
Strange..I opened to the UC Davis list. The e-mail contact on what came up for me is [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Lucy Whittier Molecular and Diagnostic Core Facility) Phone 530.752.7991. I hope this helps. If you have men who will exclude any of God's creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who will deal likewise with their fellow man. St. Francis - Original Message - From: Lee Evans To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 5:19 PM Subject: Re: Moses tested FeLv+ and FeLv- I'm confused! Hi Marilyn, UC Davies is a good idea. Unfortunately, your link is not for UC Davies but for a website that sells pet meds. I'm going to find the UC Davies website on Google and then wander around until I find what I need. Does anyone know if Texas AM offers the PCR test? Has anyone ever gotten a cat tested with the PCR? Lee - Original Message - From: Marylyn To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 5:05 PM Subject: Re: Moses tested FeLv+ and FeLv- I'm confused! UC Davis does this test and it is very inexpensive (relatively). I think this is the link. http://www.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/ccah/Homesite%20Images/Diagnostic%20PCR%20Price%20Schedule.doc If you have men who will exclude any of God's creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who will deal likewise with their fellow man. St. Francis - Original Message - From: Lee Evans To: Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 4:40 PM Subject: Moses tested FeLv+ and FeLv- I'm confused! We recently rescued a tame "feral" cat from an apartment complex where peoplemove out and leave their cats to fend for themselves. I named him Moses. Since he comes from an area where all the feral cats tested negative on their combo test, I wasn't very worried. I took him in for his free spay and vaccine and because he was tame, I had him combo tested because I was going to foster him at my house until I could get him adopted or intoanother foster situation. Unfortunately he tested positive for FeLv. I really couldn't believe it and the clinic where he was neutered has been known to make awful mistakes so I took him to the vet I use for my own housecats and he again tested positive on the ELISA test. I boarded him at the clinic while I discussed the situation with my rescue partner who had been the one to catch him in a cat carrier. We decided to do the IFA test immediately rather than wait 3 months and test again with the ELISA. Three months in a cage in a clinic is not the way to make a cat happy and it's expensive. We do NOT kill cats who test positive for FIV or FeLv. So the IFA test was done and it came back NEGATIVE. We were happy. My vet called Texas AM. They told him that if the IFA was negative, we should consider the cat negative. Just to be sure though, they said, keep him isolated for another month or two and then test again with the ELISA. At this point I wanted to scream. After that, my vet mentioned a test called the PCR. A friend googled it and found that it tests for FeLv that might not show up on either the ELISA or the IFA. Unfortunately, Cornell University Laboratory doesn't do the PCR. It's popular in the UK but apparently hasn't taken hold here in the USA. Does anyone have any experience with this test and also, what am I supposed to do with Moses? Should I consider him FeLv+ or negative? I took him home and isolated him in a spare bathroom. I only have one bathroom left now. If I get another cat in to recover for TNR, I'll have to build an outhouse for myself. Sigh. Any answers will be greatly appreciated.Incidentally, Moses is a healthy, shiny-furred black cat with an excellent appetite. He's about 2 years old. I have his "wife" and son who both tested negative in the ELISA. Lee
RE: Moses tested FeLv+ and FeLv- I'm confused!
Unfortunately, I think the time will tell for sure I think you will have to wait and retest it if you really want to be sure --- if he is tested negative on IFA, which means that the virus has not reached to bone marrow and there is a good chance that he will shake off the virus completely in time, anywaybut again, if you really want to be sure, you need to wait as the same token, virus could go in to the bone marrow however, stress free environment is most critical for him so that if there is any chance for him to shake off the virus, he could use every bit of stress free environment thank you for taking good care of this kitty.. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Leslie Lawther Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 4:10 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Moses tested FeLv+ and FeLv- I'm confused! Every time I click on this link it won't connect. Is the link okay? Leslie =^..^= On 11/14/06, Marylyn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: UC Davis does this test and it is very inexpensive (relatively). I think this is the link. http://www.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/ccah/Homesite%20Images/Diagnostic%20PCR%20Price%20Schedule.doc If you have men who will exclude any of God's creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who will deal likewise with their fellow man. St. Francis - Original Message - From: Lee Evans To: Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 4:40 PM Subject: Moses tested FeLv+ and FeLv- I'm confused! We recently rescued a tame feral cat from an apartment complex where peoplemove out and leave their cats to fend for themselves. I named him Moses. Since he comes from an area where all the feral cats tested negative on their combo test, I wasn't very worried. I took him in for his free spay and vaccine and because he was tame, I had him combo tested because I was going to foster him at my house until I could get him adopted or intoanother foster situation. Unfortunately he tested positive for FeLv. I really couldn't believe it and the clinic where he was neutered has been known to make awful mistakes so I took him to the vet I use for my own housecats and he again tested positive on the ELISA test. I boarded him at the clinic while I discussed the situation with my rescue partner who had been the one to catch him in a cat carrier. We decided to do the IFA test immediately rather than wait 3 months and test again with the ELISA. Three months in a cage in a clinic is not the way to make a cat happy and it's expensive. We do NOT kill cats who test positive for FIV or FeLv. So the IFA test was done and it came back NEGATIVE. We were happy. My vet called Texas AM. They told him that if the IFA was negative, we should consider the cat negative. Just to be sure though, they said, keep him isolated for another month or two and then test again with the ELISA. At this point I wanted to scream. After that, my vet mentioned a test called the PCR. A friend googled it and found that it tests for FeLv that might not show up on either the ELISA or the IFA. Unfortunately, Cornell University Laboratory doesn't do the PCR. It's popular in the UK but apparently hasn't taken hold here in the USA. Does anyone have any experience with this test and also, what am I supposed to do with Moses? Should I consider him FeLv+ or negative? I took him home and isolated him in a spare bathroom. I only have one bathroom left now. If I get another cat in to recover for TNR, I'll have to build an outhouse for myself. Sigh. Any answers will be greatly appreciated.Incidentally, Moses is a healthy, shiny-furred black cat with an excellent appetite. He's about 2 years old. I have his wife and son who both tested negative in the ELISA. Lee -- Leslie =^..^= To leave the world a better place - whether by a healthy child, a garden patch, or an improved social condition - that is to have succeeded.That only one life breathed easier because you lived - that is success. ---Ralph Waldo Emerson
Re: Moses tested FeLv+ and FeLv- I'm confused!
Hi Lee, First of all, thank you for helping this stray and caring enough, (and knowing enough), to not take the first test as definitive. Your comment about the outhouse cracked me up. I can relate, I'm out of space myself. A while back we had a lively discussion about PCR testing for felv. I asked at my specialty clinic and the paste below is the answer I received. If you do a search in our archives, (search on pcr), you should come up with the entire discussion. From what I recall, the problem with PCR testing is in the accuracy of the lab that is doing the work. Here's one of my emails from the discussion: Hi guys, I haven't had time to check my other emails and I late for a dog training appointment. I did see this answer from Kate, chemist that used to work at my vet clinic. Synchronistically, she is now doing research involving FelV and PCR testing! I asked my vets the question I posed to Dr. Susan and this is the answer: This is Kate who used to work at VMSG. I stopped by the office the other day, and asked about my old buddies. Michelle told me Jazz and Gracie were doing well with the feline interferon treatment. I'm so happy to hear that Anyway, I'm currently working at California Lutheran University, and I am getting to do research. Coincidentally enough I am working with FeLV (a strain that has not been sequenced yet) and am running PCR on it. Okay, the difference between PCR and ELISA ELISA screens for antibodies (proteins) that are specific for the FeLV virus. False positives may occur from other antibodies that mimic antibodies to the virus. Furthermore, kittens may show false positive, if the queen (momma cat) was exposed to FeLV, passing her antibodies along to her kitten, but not necessarily the virus. ELISA shows that a cat has been exposed to FeLV, but not necessarily has the virus (this is why repeat testing must be done in order to determine that the cat is indeed positive for FeLV). On the other hand, it is possible for a cat to be FeLV positive, but to have a negative ELISA. For instance, if the virus is latent, ELISA may not show positive for the virus. PCR (polymerase chain reaction), however, deals directly with the nucleic acid (the genteic material) of the virus, and amplifies it. If the virus is not present, the genetic material of the virus is not present, and therefore, PCR will not make more of something that isn't there. So, if a kitty has FeLV, it will be detectable by PCR. A positive for PCR is 100% positive (provided the person running the sample did not contaminate it). A negative PCR is almost always negative (provided the person running the PCR is experienced in the technique). There are many studies out there that have used PCR to detect FeLV from bone marrow. Therefore, a blood sample could be submitted to test for FeLV. Ideally, the best would be to get a bone marrow sample. Side note, red blood cells do not carry genetic material (they are the only cells that do not do this). Consequently, at a crime scene when the detectives obtain a blood sample they extract the genetic material from the white blood cells, and run a PCR. By running PCR they are able to take a small bit of genetic material and get it to generate alot of genetic material. The genetic material in humans is of course DNA. The FeLV virus's genetic material is RNA. It is able to take it's RNA and make DNA (a process called reverse transcription, which only certain viruses can do), but it's DNA is short lived. Viruses cannot replicate on their own and require a host to carry out this process. Short answer to your question is, yes, you can do a PCR test for FeLV. Why this isn't used always instead of ELISA is a whole other can of worms. Basically, you have to separate kitty DNA from virus RNA, not hard but there can be contamination. The genetic sequence of FeLV strain A is known, but researchers are not sure that this is the only strain that causes the virus, and whether other strains have an effect on the disease. The primers (the little pieces of genetic material that tag the genetic material of the virus) have to be specific to make PCR work, i.e. to amplify the virus's genetic material. Then there is a problem with standardization of tests from lab to lab. PCR is an awesome tool, but alas, like everything else in the universe, comes with its own set of rules. Basically, scientists do not have all the answers yet to FeLV. However, when we get results, these are published which allows doctors more information to treat thier patients. But somewhere in a small lab, researchers continue to seek answers. Don't know if this helps or if you are more confused.
Re: Moses tested FeLv+ and FeLv- I'm confused!
Thanks for your insight, Hideyo. I'm so sorry about the passing over of your sweet little Dharma. I'm a member of the FIV group and read your posts and cried. Take care of yourself and don't you dare blame yourself. The fault lies with people who toss out these poor mama cats and never even think twice about the babies that are going to be born. Blessings to you, Lee - Original Message - From: Hideyo Yamamoto To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 5:44 PM Subject: RE: Moses tested FeLv+ and FeLv- I'm confused! Unfortunately, I think the time will tell for sure I think you will have to wait and retest it if you really want to be sure --- if he is tested negative on IFA, which means that the virus has not reached to bone marrow and there is a good chance that he will shake off the virus completely in time, anywaybut again, if you really want to be sure, you need to wait as the same token, virus could go in to the bone marrow however, stress free environment is most critical for him so that if there is any chance for him to shake off the virus, he could use every bit of stress free environment thank you for taking good care of this kitty.. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Leslie LawtherSent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 4:10 PMTo: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSubject: Re: Moses tested FeLv+ and FeLv- I'm confused! Every time I click on this link it won't connect. Is the link okay? Leslie =^..^= On 11/14/06, Marylyn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: UC Davis does this test and it is very inexpensive (relatively). I think this is the link. http://www.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/ccah/Homesite%20Images/Diagnostic%20PCR%20Price%20Schedule.doc If you have men who will exclude any of God's creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who will deal likewise with their fellow man. St. Francis - Original Message - From: Lee Evans To: Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 4:40 PM Subject: Moses tested FeLv+ and FeLv- I'm confused! We recently rescued a tame "feral" cat from an apartment complex where peoplemove out and leave their cats to fend for themselves. I named him Moses. Since he comes from an area where all the feral cats tested negative on their combo test, I wasn't very worried. I took him in for his free spay and vaccine and because he was tame, I had him combo tested because I was going to foster him at my house until I could get him adopted or intoanother foster situation. Unfortunately he tested positive for FeLv. I really couldn't believe it and the clinic where he was neutered has been known to make awful mistakes so I took him to the vet I use for my own housecats and he again tested positive on the ELISA test. I boarded him at the clinic while I discussed the situation with my rescue partner who had been the one to catch him in a cat carrier. We decided to do the IFA test immediately rather than wait 3 months and test again with the ELISA. Three months in a cage in a clinic is not the way to make a cat happy and it's expensive. We do NOT kill cats who test positive for FIV or FeLv. So the IFA test was done and it came back NEGATIVE. We were happy. My vet called Texas AM. They told him that if the IFA was negative, we should consider the cat negative. Just to be sure though, they said, keep him isolated for another month or two and then test again with the ELISA. At this point I wanted to scream. After that, my vet mentioned a test called the PCR. A friend googled it and found that it tests for FeLv that might not show up on either the ELISA or the IFA. Unfortunately, Cornell University Laboratory doesn't do the PCR. It's popular in the UK but apparently hasn't taken hold here in the USA. Does anyone have any experience with this test and also, what am I supposed to do with Moses? Should I consider him FeLv+ or negative? I took him home and isolated him in a spare bathroom. I only have one bathroom left now. If I get another cat in to recover for TNR, I'll have to build an outhouse for myself. Sigh. Any answers will be greatly appreciated.Incidentally, Moses is a healthy, shiny-furred black cat with an excellent appetite. He's about 2 years old. I have his "wife" and son who both tested negative in the ELISA. Lee -- Leslie =^..^=To leave the world a better place - whether by a healthy child, a garden patch, or an improved social condition - that is to have succeeded.That on
Re: Moses tested FeLv+ and FeLv- I'm confused!
Thatpost had most of the information that my friend Googled from the Bristol University Website and other UK websites. I guess the best thing would be to assume Moses is FeLv+ and try to find him a foster home without any cats or with a cat friendly dog, but not with any other cat unless his next ELISA test comes back eitherpositive or negative so I can know for sure that he had thrown off the virus or was actually positive for it.We never kill animals whocombo test positive for FIV or FeLv, unless theyhave full blown symptoms of the illness with no hope of reversal. My problem, like most other rescuers is that I'm out of space here. Every room has it's own group of rescues waiting for adoption/other foster homes. Kitten season here was horrendous. I never take in kittens but I have taken at least a dozen this season. Got some out of here tono-kill shelters but most are still here growing old. I have 4 FIV+ cats in a separate area, a FIV+ kittenwaiting for re-testing while she spends the best weeks of her life in a cage in my living room, poor little thing. Atleast she hasadult cat friends who keep her company from safely outside the cage. Yes, I know it's not contagious by ordinary meansbutmost of the cats here are for adoption. I have a couple of fighters also so won't take a chance. I never take FeLv+ cats because of the contagion factor but Moses couldn't stay at the clinic any longer. He is terrified of dogs, was in a room with isolation parvo dogs, must have been awfully depressing for him. So he's in a bathroom here, locked away and lonely.Slight improvement. I have one prospect for him but she and her husband are visiting relativesthroughout the holiday season and won't be back until end of December. Meanwhile, the confusion goes on. Lee - Original Message - From: Nina To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 6:14 PM Subject: Re: Moses tested FeLv+ and FeLv- I'm confused! Hi Lee,First of all, thank you for helping this stray and caring enough, (and knowing enough), to not take the first test as definitive. Your comment about the outhouse cracked me up. I can relate, I'm out of space myself. A while back we had a lively discussion about PCR testing for felv. I asked at my specialty clinic and the paste below is the answer I received. If you do a search in our archives, (search on pcr), you should come up with the entire discussion. From what I recall, the problem with PCR testing is in the accuracy of the lab that is doing the work. Here's one of my emails from the discussion:Hi guys,I haven't had time to check my other emails and I late for a dog training appointment. I did see this answer from Kate, chemist that used to work at my vet clinic. Synchronistically, she is now doing research involving FelV and PCR testing! I asked my vets the question I posed to Dr. Susan and this is the answer:This is Kate who used to work at VMSG. I stopped bythe office the other day, and asked about my oldbuddies. Michelle told me Jazz and Gracie were doingwell with the feline interferon treatment. I'm sohappy to hear thatAnyway, I'm currently working at California LutheranUniversity, and I am getting to do research. Coincidentally enough I am working with FeLV (a strainthat has not been sequenced yet) and am running PCR onit. Okay, the difference between PCR and ELISA ELISAscreens for antibodies (proteins) that are specificfor the FeLV virus. False positives may occur fromother antibodies that mimic antibodies to the virus. Furthermore, kittens may show false positive, if thequeen (momma cat) was exposed to FeLV, passing herantibodies along to her kitten, but not necessarilythe virus. ELISA shows that a cat has been exposed toFeLV, but not necessarily has the virus (this is whyrepeat testing must be done in order to determine thatthe cat is indeed positive for FeLV). On the otherhand, it is possible for a cat to be FeLV positive,but to have a negative ELISA. For instance, if thevirus is latent, ELISA may not show positive for thevirus. PCR (polymerase chain reaction), however,deals directly with the nucleic acid (the genteicmaterial) of the virus, and amplifies it. If thevirus is not present, the genetic material of thevirus is not present, and therefore, PCR will not makemore of something that isn't there. So, if a kittyhas FeLV, it will be detectable by PCR. A positivefor PCR is 100% positive (provided the person runningthe sample did not contaminate it). A negative PCR isalmost always negative (provided the person runningthe PCR is experienced in the technique). There aremany studies out there that have used PCR to detectFeLV from bone marrow. Therefore, a blood samplecould be submitted to test for FeLV. Ideally, thebest would be to get a bone marrow sample. Side note,red blood cells do
Re: Moses tested FeLv+ and FeLv- I'm confused!
Yes Joey was PCR tested because him and Bailey (FeLV+) were very close, he was negative, him, Bailey and the rest of the gang all lived together for 11 years and nobody ever got it from Bailey. Has anyone ever gotten a cat tested with the PCR? -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com
