Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Dropping SDL1 support [VOTE]
On 9/15/2016 2:36 PM, James Almer wrote: > There have been some complains from developers about keeping both > SDL1 and SDL2 support at the same time even after all SDL1 code > has been already ported, and especially since it makes maintaining > ffplay more complex, so seeing the waters are divided I think the > best solution will be to vote. > > Arguments in favor of keeping SDL1: > * Debian Old-Stable and Ubuntu 12.04 don't ship an usable SDL2 > by default, meaning a few extra steps for anyone wanting to > compile ffmpeg git would be needed to keep ffplay and the sdl > outdev working on them. > * We have a dev willing to maintain the SDL1 version of ffplay > until the above two distros are EOLed. > > Arguments in favor of dropping SDL1: > * SDL1 is old and effectively unmaintained. > * The above distros will never upgrade their ffmpeg packages. > * Anyone compiling ffmpeg git from source on any of the above > distros most likely already has to deal with other missing > deps, like any recent x264, be it from unnofficial PPAs or > manually compiling from source. SDL2 would not be any > different in that regard. > * Even though we have a dev willing to maintain the deprecated > SDL1 code, he'd rather not have to deal with it. > > Other arguments in favor or against are welcome. > > The vote will end 1 week from now, simple majority wins, and > it's open only to those in the voting committee[1]. > Marton Balint, while not in the committee, should IMO also > have the chance to vote or at least comment since he's the > main ffplay maintainer. > > Regards. > > [1] https://ffmpeg.org/pipermail/ffmpeg-devel/2015-October/182207.html The final result is In favor of dropping SDL1: Clément Bœsch Hendrik Leppkes Rostislav Pehlivanov Ronald S. Bultje Lou Logan wm4 No votes against. Not counted: Lukas Marek, Marton Balint, Carl Eugen Hoyos, Michael Niedermayer and Paul B Mahol, as they didn't cast a clear vote. ___ ffmpeg-devel mailing list ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org http://ffmpeg.org/mailman/listinfo/ffmpeg-devel
Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Dropping SDL1 support [VOTE]
On Thu, 15 Sep 2016 14:36:32 -0300 James Almer wrote: > There have been some complains from developers about keeping both > SDL1 and SDL2 support at the same time even after all SDL1 code > has been already ported, and especially since it makes maintaining > ffplay more complex, so seeing the waters are divided I think the > best solution will be to vote. I vote for dropping SDL1 completely. ___ ffmpeg-devel mailing list ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org http://ffmpeg.org/mailman/listinfo/ffmpeg-devel
Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Dropping SDL1 support [VOTE]
Hi, On Mon, Sep 19, 2016 at 9:47 PM, Lukasz Marek wrote: > On Sep 18, 2016 04:57, "Ronald S. Bultje" wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > On Sat, Sep 17, 2016 at 4:26 PM, Marton Balint wrote: > > > > > I think we should wait until Lukasz does the port of the opengl device > to > > > SDL2, and do the switch after that. > > > > > > When do we think that'll be finished? > > I missed this, I alredy posted a patch, it needs just one line fix so not > consider it as a blocker. No worries, thanks for your efforts to move this forward. Given the state of affairs, I vote to drop sdl1. Ronald ___ ffmpeg-devel mailing list ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org http://ffmpeg.org/mailman/listinfo/ffmpeg-devel
Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Dropping SDL1 support [VOTE]
On Sep 18, 2016 04:57, "Ronald S. Bultje" wrote: > > Hi, > > On Sat, Sep 17, 2016 at 4:26 PM, Marton Balint wrote: > > > I think we should wait until Lukasz does the port of the opengl device to > > SDL2, and do the switch after that. > > > When do we think that'll be finished? I missed this, I alredy posted a patch, it needs just one line fix so not consider it as a blocker. ___ ffmpeg-devel mailing list ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org http://ffmpeg.org/mailman/listinfo/ffmpeg-devel
Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Dropping SDL1 support [VOTE]
Hi, On Sat, Sep 17, 2016 at 4:26 PM, Marton Balint wrote: > I think we should wait until Lukasz does the port of the opengl device to > SDL2, and do the switch after that. When do we think that'll be finished? Ronald ___ ffmpeg-devel mailing list ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org http://ffmpeg.org/mailman/listinfo/ffmpeg-devel
Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Dropping SDL1 support [VOTE]
On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 02:36:32PM -0300, James Almer wrote: > There have been some complains from developers about keeping both > SDL1 and SDL2 support at the same time even after all SDL1 code > has been already ported, and especially since it makes maintaining > ffplay more complex, so seeing the waters are divided I think the > best solution will be to vote. Are there any developers currently depending on SDL1 in a way that they cannot upgrade to SDL2 ? Are debian old stable and Ubuntu 12.04 the only still maintained affected distros ? When SDL1 is replaced by SDL2 some announcment should be made, that should contain instructions on how users of affected distros can update to SDL2. (maybe as a link to sdl2 packages where they exist or a link to our wiki where we also document how other 3rd party libs can be build) I dont want to tell our users "You must use a release for SDL support" and then when they submit a bugreport or patch tell them "You must use latest git master" We want bug reports and patches against git master, always, we should ensure git master works always I vote for listening to our users and fellow developers and resolving any issues a SDL1->SDL2 switch would have for them and once resolved to drop SDL1 Thanks [...] -- Michael GnuPG fingerprint: 9FF2128B147EF6730BADF133611EC787040B0FAB Dictatorship: All citizens are under surveillance, all their steps and actions recorded, for the politicians to enforce control. Democracy: All politicians are under surveillance, all their steps and actions recorded, for the citizens to enforce control. signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ ffmpeg-devel mailing list ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org http://ffmpeg.org/mailman/listinfo/ffmpeg-devel
Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Dropping SDL1 support [VOTE]
On 9/17/2016 5:26 PM, Marton Balint wrote: > > On Fri, 16 Sep 2016, Ronald S. Bultje wrote: > >> Hi folks, >> >> On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 1:36 PM, James Almer wrote: >> >>> The vote will end 1 week from now, simple majority wins, and >>> it's open only to those in the voting committee[1]. >>> Marton Balint, while not in the committee, should IMO also >>> have the chance to vote or at least comment since he's the >>> main ffplay maintainer. > > I think I am in the committee, it got extended, and I got in, somebody surely > can find the reference... You're right, i missed the second extension. Sorry. https://ffmpeg.org/pipermail/ffmpeg-devel/2015-November/183803.html We should probably put the list in the website or somewhere easily accessible, so people don't have to dig old emails. There was also a third attempt to extend it but it seems it wasn't well received because many of the suggestions were either devs long gone or that had minimal infrastructure roles not related to the core development of the project. Unless I'm missing something, that one went nowhere and the above mail is the most recent approved list. And IMO, since it's been a year now it could be revised and some of those names suggested again, but that's another discussion. > I'd rather drop SDL1, there are times when we bump the minimal version > requirements of external libraries, this is not that different. > > On the other hand, if others do the work of maintaining the old sdl1 version > of ffplay and the devices, I don't really mind having them around for a few > more months, but I don't think it is necessary. This is somewhat ambiguous, so before the voting is done it would be great if you can make your vote clear :P > > I think we should wait until Lukasz does the port of the opengl device to > SDL2, and do the switch after that. > > Regards, > Marton ___ ffmpeg-devel mailing list ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org http://ffmpeg.org/mailman/listinfo/ffmpeg-devel
Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Dropping SDL1 support [VOTE]
On Fri, 16 Sep 2016, Ronald S. Bultje wrote: Hi folks, On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 1:36 PM, James Almer wrote: The vote will end 1 week from now, simple majority wins, and it's open only to those in the voting committee[1]. Marton Balint, while not in the committee, should IMO also have the chance to vote or at least comment since he's the main ffplay maintainer. I think I am in the committee, it got extended, and I got in, somebody surely can find the reference... Marton, it sounds like your opinion is valued. Penny for your thoughts? :) I'd rather drop SDL1, there are times when we bump the minimal version requirements of external libraries, this is not that different. On the other hand, if others do the work of maintaining the old sdl1 version of ffplay and the devices, I don't really mind having them around for a few more months, but I don't think it is necessary. I think we should wait until Lukasz does the port of the opengl device to SDL2, and do the switch after that. Regards, Marton ___ ffmpeg-devel mailing list ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org http://ffmpeg.org/mailman/listinfo/ffmpeg-devel
Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Dropping SDL1 support [VOTE]
On Fri, 16 Sep 2016 14:48:03 +0200 Carl Eugen Hoyos wrote: > 2016-09-16 14:21 GMT+02:00 Rostislav Pehlivanov : > > > I'd rather have SDL1 support dropped. ffplay is the only thing on my > > machine which uses libsdl1.2 > > And we already (everybody) agreed that we want to switch to SDL2 > so that you (and others) do not have to use (or depend on) sdl1 > anymore. > But this is an entirely different question that is completely unrelated > to your installation: > Do we allow developers to continue to use sdl1 to test on their > old (but supported) Linux distributions or do we forcibly stop > them from contributing here? If that developer is apparently unable to update his system, then yes, kick him out. 10 people not wanting to use SDL1 surely counts more than 1 person being too goddamn obstinate not to install SDL2 (or too incompetent to do that?) I'm always amazed by these absurdities. ___ ffmpeg-devel mailing list ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org http://ffmpeg.org/mailman/listinfo/ffmpeg-devel
Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Dropping SDL1 support [VOTE]
On Thu, 15 Sep 2016 14:36:32 -0300, James Almer wrote: > There have been some complains from developers about keeping both > SDL1 and SDL2 support at the same time even after all SDL1 code > has been already ported, and especially since it makes maintaining > ffplay more complex, so seeing the waters are divided I think the > best solution will be to vote. [...] I vote in favor of dropping SDL1. ___ ffmpeg-devel mailing list ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org http://ffmpeg.org/mailman/listinfo/ffmpeg-devel
Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Dropping SDL1 support [VOTE]
Hi, On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 12:22 PM, Carl Eugen Hoyos wrote: > 2016-09-16 18:19 GMT+02:00 Ronald S. Bultje : > > Hi, > > > > On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 12:16 PM, Carl Eugen Hoyos > > wrote: > > > >> 2016-09-16 16:07 GMT+02:00 Hendrik Leppkes : > >> > >> > You want other developers to do more work > >> > >> Of which work are you talking about? > > > > Installing libsdl1. > > I don't understand: Why would a developer who has libsdl2 install > libsdl1 after we switched the default sdl to sdl2? Oh, you mean the sdl1+2 variant; I agree with others that duplicate code is never a good thing, particularly not for this ridiculous reason that some of our devs refuse to go through the trouble to install libsdl2. Ronald ___ ffmpeg-devel mailing list ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org http://ffmpeg.org/mailman/listinfo/ffmpeg-devel
Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Dropping SDL1 support [VOTE]
2016-09-16 18:24 GMT+02:00 Josh de Kock : > On 16/09/2016 17:22, Carl Eugen Hoyos wrote: >> >> 2016-09-16 18:19 GMT+02:00 Ronald S. Bultje : >>> >>> On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 12:16 PM, Carl Eugen Hoyos >>> wrote: >>> 2016-09-16 16:07 GMT+02:00 Hendrik Leppkes : > You want other developers to do more work Of which work are you talking about? >>> >>> Installing libsdl1. >> >> I don't understand: Why would a developer who has libsdl2 install >> libsdl1 after we switched the default sdl to sdl2? > > To maintain the sdl1 variant. You of course do not have to maintain it: I find it extremely helpful that you already did all the necessary work, asking for more would be completely unreasonable. Carl Eugen ___ ffmpeg-devel mailing list ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org http://ffmpeg.org/mailman/listinfo/ffmpeg-devel
Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Dropping SDL1 support [VOTE]
On 16/09/2016 17:22, Carl Eugen Hoyos wrote: 2016-09-16 18:19 GMT+02:00 Ronald S. Bultje : Hi, On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 12:16 PM, Carl Eugen Hoyos wrote: 2016-09-16 16:07 GMT+02:00 Hendrik Leppkes : You want other developers to do more work Of which work are you talking about? Installing libsdl1. I don't understand: Why would a developer who has libsdl2 install libsdl1 after we switched the default sdl to sdl2? To maintain the sdl1 variant. ___ ffmpeg-devel mailing list ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org http://ffmpeg.org/mailman/listinfo/ffmpeg-devel
Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Dropping SDL1 support [VOTE]
2016-09-16 18:19 GMT+02:00 Ronald S. Bultje : > Hi, > > On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 12:16 PM, Carl Eugen Hoyos > wrote: > >> 2016-09-16 16:07 GMT+02:00 Hendrik Leppkes : >> >> > You want other developers to do more work >> >> Of which work are you talking about? > > Installing libsdl1. I don't understand: Why would a developer who has libsdl2 install libsdl1 after we switched the default sdl to sdl2? Carl Eugen ___ ffmpeg-devel mailing list ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org http://ffmpeg.org/mailman/listinfo/ffmpeg-devel
Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Dropping SDL1 support [VOTE]
Hi, On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 12:16 PM, Carl Eugen Hoyos wrote: > 2016-09-16 16:07 GMT+02:00 Hendrik Leppkes : > > > You want other developers to do more work > > Of which work are you talking about? Installing libsdl1. Ronald ___ ffmpeg-devel mailing list ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org http://ffmpeg.org/mailman/listinfo/ffmpeg-devel
Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Dropping SDL1 support [VOTE]
2016-09-16 16:07 GMT+02:00 Hendrik Leppkes : > You want other developers to do more work Of which work are you talking about? Carl Eugen ___ ffmpeg-devel mailing list ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org http://ffmpeg.org/mailman/listinfo/ffmpeg-devel
Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Dropping SDL1 support [VOTE]
On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 2:48 PM, Carl Eugen Hoyos wrote: > 2016-09-16 14:21 GMT+02:00 Rostislav Pehlivanov : > >> I'd rather have SDL1 support dropped. ffplay is the only thing on my >> machine which uses libsdl1.2 > > And we already (everybody) agreed that we want to switch to SDL2 > so that you (and others) do not have to use (or depend on) sdl1 > anymore. > But this is an entirely different question that is completely unrelated > to your installation: > Do we allow developers to continue to use sdl1 to test on their > old (but supported) Linux distributions or do we forcibly stop > them from contributing here? > If you think its too much to ask a developer to either run a more modern OS or manually install one dependency, then I don't think we can help you. You want other developers to do more work, just so that one or two developers can stick to their antiquated development machines? I find it odd that we typically ask much more of users then we can even expect from our developers. - Hendrik ___ ffmpeg-devel mailing list ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org http://ffmpeg.org/mailman/listinfo/ffmpeg-devel
Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Dropping SDL1 support [VOTE]
Hi, On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 8:48 AM, Carl Eugen Hoyos wrote: > Do we allow developers to continue to use sdl1 to test on their > old (but supported) Linux distributions or do we forcibly stop > them from contributing here? All developers are welcome. You'll just have to install libsdl2 yourself to enable ffplay. Ronald ___ ffmpeg-devel mailing list ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org http://ffmpeg.org/mailman/listinfo/ffmpeg-devel
Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Dropping SDL1 support [VOTE]
2016-09-16 14:21 GMT+02:00 Rostislav Pehlivanov : > I'd rather have SDL1 support dropped. ffplay is the only thing on my > machine which uses libsdl1.2 And we already (everybody) agreed that we want to switch to SDL2 so that you (and others) do not have to use (or depend on) sdl1 anymore. But this is an entirely different question that is completely unrelated to your installation: Do we allow developers to continue to use sdl1 to test on their old (but supported) Linux distributions or do we forcibly stop them from contributing here? Carl Eugen ___ ffmpeg-devel mailing list ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org http://ffmpeg.org/mailman/listinfo/ffmpeg-devel
Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Dropping SDL1 support [VOTE]
Hi folks, On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 1:36 PM, James Almer wrote: > The vote will end 1 week from now, simple majority wins, and > it's open only to those in the voting committee[1]. > Marton Balint, while not in the committee, should IMO also > have the chance to vote or at least comment since he's the > main ffplay maintainer. Marton, it sounds like your opinion is valued. Penny for your thoughts? :) Ronald ___ ffmpeg-devel mailing list ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org http://ffmpeg.org/mailman/listinfo/ffmpeg-devel
Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Dropping SDL1 support [VOTE]
Hi, On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 8:01 AM, Carl Eugen Hoyos wrote: > 2016-09-16 13:32 GMT+02:00 Paul B Mahol : > > >>> That's why i started this vote, to see how many devs are > >>> effectively in favor or against and make the final decision > >>> official. > >> > >> A vote on how evil the FFmpeg community is wrt to > >> new (and existing) contributors? Seriously? > > > > Proof? > > Wasn't it explained that Debian Ubuntu LTS would not > allow using ffplay anymore if this vote gets a yes? > Or did I misunderstand? Debian and Ubuntu LTS will continue to use the release branches of FFmpeg. Ronald ___ ffmpeg-devel mailing list ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org http://ffmpeg.org/mailman/listinfo/ffmpeg-devel
Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Dropping SDL1 support [VOTE]
On 15 September 2016 at 18:36, James Almer wrote: > There have been some complains from developers about keeping both > SDL1 and SDL2 support at the same time even after all SDL1 code > has been already ported, and especially since it makes maintaining > ffplay more complex, so seeing the waters are divided I think the > best solution will be to vote. > > Arguments in favor of keeping SDL1: > * Debian Old-Stable and Ubuntu 12.04 don't ship an usable SDL2 > by default, meaning a few extra steps for anyone wanting to > compile ffmpeg git would be needed to keep ffplay and the sdl > outdev working on them. > * We have a dev willing to maintain the SDL1 version of ffplay > until the above two distros are EOLed. > > Arguments in favor of dropping SDL1: > * SDL1 is old and effectively unmaintained. > * The above distros will never upgrade their ffmpeg packages. > * Anyone compiling ffmpeg git from source on any of the above > distros most likely already has to deal with other missing > deps, like any recent x264, be it from unnofficial PPAs or > manually compiling from source. SDL2 would not be any > different in that regard. > * Even though we have a dev willing to maintain the deprecated > SDL1 code, he'd rather not have to deal with it. > > Other arguments in favor or against are welcome. > > The vote will end 1 week from now, simple majority wins, and > it's open only to those in the voting committee[1]. > Marton Balint, while not in the committee, should IMO also > have the chance to vote or at least comment since he's the > main ffplay maintainer. > > Regards. > > [1] https://ffmpeg.org/pipermail/ffmpeg-devel/2015-October/182207.html > ___ > ffmpeg-devel mailing list > ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org > http://ffmpeg.org/mailman/listinfo/ffmpeg-devel > I'd rather have SDL1 support dropped. ffplay is the only thing on my machine which uses libsdl1.2. Everything else has moved to libsdl2 (except dosbox which got forked to support sdl2 because development is mostly dead). Keeping a separate version of ffplay (like ffmpeg_qsv) doesn't sound to me like a good idea. ___ ffmpeg-devel mailing list ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org http://ffmpeg.org/mailman/listinfo/ffmpeg-devel
Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Dropping SDL1 support [VOTE]
2016-09-16 13:32 GMT+02:00 Paul B Mahol : >>> That's why i started this vote, to see how many devs are >>> effectively in favor or against and make the final decision >>> official. >> >> A vote on how evil the FFmpeg community is wrt to >> new (and existing) contributors? Seriously? > > Proof? Wasn't it explained that Debian Ubuntu LTS would not allow using ffplay anymore if this vote gets a yes? Or did I misunderstand? Carl Eugen ___ ffmpeg-devel mailing list ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org http://ffmpeg.org/mailman/listinfo/ffmpeg-devel
Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Dropping SDL1 support [VOTE]
On 9/16/16, Carl Eugen Hoyos wrote: > 2016-09-15 19:55 GMT+02:00 James Almer : >> On 9/15/2016 2:51 PM, Carl Eugen Hoyos wrote: > >>> Didn't we all agree yesterday that this makes the transition >>> less painful? >> >> Not all. Several mentioned on IRC that they didn't like it. > > So development discussion has moved to irc (again)? Development discussion happens on irc all the time. It's your problem you are rarely on irc. > >> That's why i started this vote, to see how many devs are >> effectively in favor or against and make the final decision >> official. > > A vote on how evil the FFmpeg community is wrt to > new (and existing) contributors? Seriously? Proof? ___ ffmpeg-devel mailing list ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org http://ffmpeg.org/mailman/listinfo/ffmpeg-devel
Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Dropping SDL1 support [VOTE]
2016-09-15 19:55 GMT+02:00 James Almer : > On 9/15/2016 2:51 PM, Carl Eugen Hoyos wrote: >> Didn't we all agree yesterday that this makes the transition >> less painful? > > Not all. Several mentioned on IRC that they didn't like it. So development discussion has moved to irc (again)? > That's why i started this vote, to see how many devs are > effectively in favor or against and make the final decision > official. A vote on how evil the FFmpeg community is wrt to new (and existing) contributors? Seriously? >>> and especially since it makes maintaining >>> ffplay more complex >> >> How? > > Having two separate codepaths, and needing to fix potential > bugs in both. Why? I don't easily remember a "bug" in ffplay that needed fixing to keep it 100% usable, there were many improvements and there will be no reason to backport the future improvements. Do you remember one? Carl Eugen ___ ffmpeg-devel mailing list ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org http://ffmpeg.org/mailman/listinfo/ffmpeg-devel
Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Dropping SDL1 support [VOTE]
On 15/09/2016 23:00, Lukasz Marek wrote: On 15.09.2016 23:36, Josh de Kock wrote: On 15/09/2016 22:28, Lukasz Marek wrote: On 15.09.2016 23:19, Moritz Barsnick wrote: On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 14:36:32 -0300, James Almer wrote: * SDL1 is old and effectively unmaintained. I understand this verbatim, but what is it supposed to mean? Has SDL1 gotten rotten? Or more precisely: - Has technology evolved, and the library not kept up? - Is a long list of bugs (somehow effecting ffmpeg) piling up and never being fixed? - Something else? It doesn't compile on Mac OS I've been testing it just fine on Mac OS. I don't remember now everything, I worked with it like 2 years ago, but I got the same issue as here https://forums.libsdl.org/viewtopic.php?p=45264&sid=ae0efc2e82d373067c5112bfba70cd11 Other example is that SDL is trying to use X11 on Mac which is dropped (since 10.8?). You can ignore my answer as it doesn't stand for anything. It won't stop introducing SDL 2.0 nor force 1.2 drop, but asked question if SDL 1.2 is getting rotten then asnwer is yes IMHO. SDL1 works absolutely fine on Mac OS, it uses the native window, no X11 required. -- Josh ___ ffmpeg-devel mailing list ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org http://ffmpeg.org/mailman/listinfo/ffmpeg-devel
Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Dropping SDL1 support [VOTE]
On 15.09.2016 23:36, Josh de Kock wrote: On 15/09/2016 22:28, Lukasz Marek wrote: On 15.09.2016 23:19, Moritz Barsnick wrote: On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 14:36:32 -0300, James Almer wrote: * SDL1 is old and effectively unmaintained. I understand this verbatim, but what is it supposed to mean? Has SDL1 gotten rotten? Or more precisely: - Has technology evolved, and the library not kept up? - Is a long list of bugs (somehow effecting ffmpeg) piling up and never being fixed? - Something else? It doesn't compile on Mac OS I've been testing it just fine on Mac OS. I don't remember now everything, I worked with it like 2 years ago, but I got the same issue as here https://forums.libsdl.org/viewtopic.php?p=45264&sid=ae0efc2e82d373067c5112bfba70cd11 Other example is that SDL is trying to use X11 on Mac which is dropped (since 10.8?). You can ignore my answer as it doesn't stand for anything. It won't stop introducing SDL 2.0 nor force 1.2 drop, but asked question if SDL 1.2 is getting rotten then asnwer is yes IMHO. ___ ffmpeg-devel mailing list ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org http://ffmpeg.org/mailman/listinfo/ffmpeg-devel
Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Dropping SDL1 support [VOTE]
On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 11:19 PM, Moritz Barsnick wrote: > On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 14:36:32 -0300, James Almer wrote: >> * SDL1 is old and effectively unmaintained. > > I understand this verbatim, but what is it supposed to mean? Has SDL1 > gotten rotten? Or more precisely: > > - Has technology evolved, and the library not kept up? > - Is a long list of bugs (somehow effecting ffmpeg) piling up and never > being fixed? > - Something else? > > If so, please argument as such, that makes it easier to get the point. > Being old an unmaintained, it *might* just as well work fine. > A summary of advantages was posted quite a while ago, and re-linked in the thread that started this topic a few days ago: https://ffmpeg.org/pipermail/ffmpeg-devel/2016-January/186299.html Primarly, it adds more features that allow using more flexible output paths, and improves performance. There really is no question that we want SDL2 going forward, the only question this vote is supposed to answer is what to do with SDL1. - Hendrik ___ ffmpeg-devel mailing list ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org http://ffmpeg.org/mailman/listinfo/ffmpeg-devel
Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Dropping SDL1 support [VOTE]
On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 7:36 PM, James Almer wrote: > There have been some complains from developers about keeping both > SDL1 and SDL2 support at the same time even after all SDL1 code > has been already ported, and especially since it makes maintaining > ffplay more complex, so seeing the waters are divided I think the > best solution will be to vote. > > Arguments in favor of keeping SDL1: > * Debian Old-Stable and Ubuntu 12.04 don't ship an usable SDL2 > by default, meaning a few extra steps for anyone wanting to > compile ffmpeg git would be needed to keep ffplay and the sdl > outdev working on them. > * We have a dev willing to maintain the SDL1 version of ffplay > until the above two distros are EOLed. > > Arguments in favor of dropping SDL1: > * SDL1 is old and effectively unmaintained. > * The above distros will never upgrade their ffmpeg packages. > * Anyone compiling ffmpeg git from source on any of the above > distros most likely already has to deal with other missing > deps, like any recent x264, be it from unnofficial PPAs or > manually compiling from source. SDL2 would not be any > different in that regard. > * Even though we have a dev willing to maintain the deprecated > SDL1 code, he'd rather not have to deal with it. > > Other arguments in favor or against are welcome. > > The vote will end 1 week from now, simple majority wins, and > it's open only to those in the voting committee[1]. > Marton Balint, while not in the committee, should IMO also > have the chance to vote or at least comment since he's the > main ffplay maintainer. > > Regards. > I vote for dropping SDL1 if adequate replacements based on SDL2 are made available before. I don't think its too much to ask developers of ffmpeg to either use at least half-recent distributions, or be aware that its their responsibility to gather external dependencies. We typically ask much more of the users (ie. run ffmpeg git before reporting issues), independent of availability in their distributions. - Hendrik ___ ffmpeg-devel mailing list ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org http://ffmpeg.org/mailman/listinfo/ffmpeg-devel
Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Dropping SDL1 support [VOTE]
On 15/09/2016 22:28, Lukasz Marek wrote: On 15.09.2016 23:19, Moritz Barsnick wrote: On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 14:36:32 -0300, James Almer wrote: * SDL1 is old and effectively unmaintained. I understand this verbatim, but what is it supposed to mean? Has SDL1 gotten rotten? Or more precisely: - Has technology evolved, and the library not kept up? - Is a long list of bugs (somehow effecting ffmpeg) piling up and never being fixed? - Something else? It doesn't compile on Mac OS I've been testing it just fine on Mac OS. -- Josh ___ ffmpeg-devel mailing list ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org http://ffmpeg.org/mailman/listinfo/ffmpeg-devel
Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Dropping SDL1 support [VOTE]
On 15.09.2016 23:19, Moritz Barsnick wrote: On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 14:36:32 -0300, James Almer wrote: * SDL1 is old and effectively unmaintained. I understand this verbatim, but what is it supposed to mean? Has SDL1 gotten rotten? Or more precisely: - Has technology evolved, and the library not kept up? - Is a long list of bugs (somehow effecting ffmpeg) piling up and never being fixed? - Something else? It doesn't compile on Mac OS ___ ffmpeg-devel mailing list ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org http://ffmpeg.org/mailman/listinfo/ffmpeg-devel
Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Dropping SDL1 support [VOTE]
On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 14:36:32 -0300, James Almer wrote: > * SDL1 is old and effectively unmaintained. I understand this verbatim, but what is it supposed to mean? Has SDL1 gotten rotten? Or more precisely: - Has technology evolved, and the library not kept up? - Is a long list of bugs (somehow effecting ffmpeg) piling up and never being fixed? - Something else? If so, please argument as such, that makes it easier to get the point. Being old an unmaintained, it *might* just as well work fine. Moritz ___ ffmpeg-devel mailing list ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org http://ffmpeg.org/mailman/listinfo/ffmpeg-devel
Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Dropping SDL1 support [VOTE]
On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 02:36:32PM -0300, James Almer wrote: > There have been some complains from developers about keeping both > SDL1 and SDL2 support at the same time even after all SDL1 code > has been already ported, and especially since it makes maintaining > ffplay more complex, so seeing the waters are divided I think the > best solution will be to vote. > > Arguments in favor of keeping SDL1: > * Debian Old-Stable and Ubuntu 12.04 don't ship an usable SDL2 > by default, meaning a few extra steps for anyone wanting to > compile ffmpeg git would be needed to keep ffplay and the sdl > outdev working on them. Just tried the unofficial PPA for 12.04 with the latest patchset keyboard input doesnt work Keyboard layout unknown, please send the following to the SDL mailing list (s...@libsdl.org): code = 1, sym = 0xFF1B (Escape) scancode = 41 (Escape) code = 2, sym = 0x31 (1) scancode = 40 (Return) code = 3, sym = 0x32 (2) scancode = 41 (Escape) code = 4, sym = 0x33 (3) scancode = 42 (Backspace) code = 5, sym = 0x34 (4) scancode = 43 (Tab) code = 6, sym = 0x35 (5) scancode = 44 (Space) code = 7, sym = 0x36 (6) scancode = 45 (-) code = 8, sym = 0x37 (7) scancode = 46 (=) code = 9, sym = 0x38 (8) scancode = 47 ([) code = 10, sym = 0x39 (9) scancode = 48 (]) code = 11, sym = 0x30 (0) scancode = 39 (0) ... The key you just pressed is not recognized by SDL. To help get this fixed, please report this to the SDL mailing list X11 KeyCode 24 (16), X11 KeySym 0x71 (q). [...] -- Michael GnuPG fingerprint: 9FF2128B147EF6730BADF133611EC787040B0FAB The greatest way to live with honor in this world is to be what we pretend to be. -- Socrates signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ ffmpeg-devel mailing list ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org http://ffmpeg.org/mailman/listinfo/ffmpeg-devel
Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Dropping SDL1 support [VOTE]
On 9/15/2016 2:51 PM, Carl Eugen Hoyos wrote: > 2016-09-15 19:36 GMT+02:00 James Almer : >> There have been some complains from developers about keeping both >> SDL1 and SDL2 support at the same time even after all SDL1 code >> has been already ported, > > Didn't we all agree yesterday that this makes the transition less painful? Not all. Several mentioned on IRC that they didn't like it. That's why i started this vote, to see how many devs are effectively in favor or against and make the final decision official. > >> and especially since it makes maintaining >> ffplay more complex > > How? Having two separate codepaths, and needing to fix potential bugs in both. > > Carl Eugen > ___ > ffmpeg-devel mailing list > ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org > http://ffmpeg.org/mailman/listinfo/ffmpeg-devel > ___ ffmpeg-devel mailing list ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org http://ffmpeg.org/mailman/listinfo/ffmpeg-devel
Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Dropping SDL1 support [VOTE]
2016-09-15 19:36 GMT+02:00 James Almer : > There have been some complains from developers about keeping both > SDL1 and SDL2 support at the same time even after all SDL1 code > has been already ported, Didn't we all agree yesterday that this makes the transition less painful? > and especially since it makes maintaining > ffplay more complex How? Carl Eugen ___ ffmpeg-devel mailing list ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org http://ffmpeg.org/mailman/listinfo/ffmpeg-devel
Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Dropping SDL1 support [VOTE]
On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 02:36:32PM -0300, James Almer wrote: > There have been some complains from developers about keeping both > SDL1 and SDL2 support at the same time even after all SDL1 code > has been already ported, and especially since it makes maintaining > ffplay more complex, so seeing the waters are divided I think the > best solution will be to vote. > > Arguments in favor of keeping SDL1: > * Debian Old-Stable and Ubuntu 12.04 don't ship an usable SDL2 > by default, meaning a few extra steps for anyone wanting to > compile ffmpeg git would be needed to keep ffplay and the sdl > outdev working on them. > * We have a dev willing to maintain the SDL1 version of ffplay > until the above two distros are EOLed. > > Arguments in favor of dropping SDL1: > * SDL1 is old and effectively unmaintained. > * The above distros will never upgrade their ffmpeg packages. > * Anyone compiling ffmpeg git from source on any of the above > distros most likely already has to deal with other missing > deps, like any recent x264, be it from unnofficial PPAs or > manually compiling from source. SDL2 would not be any > different in that regard. > * Even though we have a dev willing to maintain the deprecated > SDL1 code, he'd rather not have to deal with it. > > Other arguments in favor or against are welcome. > > The vote will end 1 week from now, simple majority wins, and > it's open only to those in the voting committee[1]. > Marton Balint, while not in the committee, should IMO also > have the chance to vote or at least comment since he's the > main ffplay maintainer. I'm all for dropping SDL1 if and only all the SDL1 code is ported to SDL2. I absolutely want to avoid a duplicated copy of the ffplay code in our source tree (and I don't want to consider #ifdery in ffplay either). [...] -- Clément B. ___ ffmpeg-devel mailing list ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org http://ffmpeg.org/mailman/listinfo/ffmpeg-devel
[FFmpeg-devel] Dropping SDL1 support [VOTE]
There have been some complains from developers about keeping both SDL1 and SDL2 support at the same time even after all SDL1 code has been already ported, and especially since it makes maintaining ffplay more complex, so seeing the waters are divided I think the best solution will be to vote. Arguments in favor of keeping SDL1: * Debian Old-Stable and Ubuntu 12.04 don't ship an usable SDL2 by default, meaning a few extra steps for anyone wanting to compile ffmpeg git would be needed to keep ffplay and the sdl outdev working on them. * We have a dev willing to maintain the SDL1 version of ffplay until the above two distros are EOLed. Arguments in favor of dropping SDL1: * SDL1 is old and effectively unmaintained. * The above distros will never upgrade their ffmpeg packages. * Anyone compiling ffmpeg git from source on any of the above distros most likely already has to deal with other missing deps, like any recent x264, be it from unnofficial PPAs or manually compiling from source. SDL2 would not be any different in that regard. * Even though we have a dev willing to maintain the deprecated SDL1 code, he'd rather not have to deal with it. Other arguments in favor or against are welcome. The vote will end 1 week from now, simple majority wins, and it's open only to those in the voting committee[1]. Marton Balint, while not in the committee, should IMO also have the chance to vote or at least comment since he's the main ffplay maintainer. Regards. [1] https://ffmpeg.org/pipermail/ffmpeg-devel/2015-October/182207.html ___ ffmpeg-devel mailing list ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org http://ffmpeg.org/mailman/listinfo/ffmpeg-devel