Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Dropping SDL1 support [VOTE]

2016-09-22 Thread James Almer 
On 9/15/2016 2:36 PM, James Almer wrote:
> There have been some complains from developers about keeping both
> SDL1 and SDL2 support at the same time even after all SDL1 code
> has been already ported, and especially since it makes maintaining
> ffplay more complex, so seeing the waters are divided I think the
> best solution will be to vote.
> 
> Arguments in favor of keeping SDL1:
> * Debian Old-Stable and Ubuntu 12.04 don't ship an usable SDL2
>   by default, meaning a few extra steps for anyone wanting to
>   compile ffmpeg git would be needed to keep ffplay and the sdl
>   outdev working on them.
> * We have a dev willing to maintain the SDL1 version of ffplay
>   until the above two distros are EOLed.
> 
> Arguments in favor of dropping SDL1:
> * SDL1 is old and effectively unmaintained.
> * The above distros will never upgrade their ffmpeg packages.
> * Anyone compiling ffmpeg git from source on any of the above
>   distros most likely already has to deal with other missing
>   deps, like any recent x264, be it from unnofficial PPAs or
>   manually compiling from source. SDL2 would not be any
>   different in that regard.
> * Even though we have a dev willing to maintain the deprecated
>   SDL1 code, he'd rather not have to deal with it.
> 
> Other arguments in favor or against are welcome.
> 
> The vote will end 1 week from now, simple majority wins, and
> it's open only to those in the voting committee[1].
> Marton Balint, while not in the committee, should IMO also
> have the chance to vote or at least comment since he's the
> main ffplay maintainer.
> 
> Regards.
> 
> [1] https://ffmpeg.org/pipermail/ffmpeg-devel/2015-October/182207.html

The final result is

In favor of dropping SDL1:
Clément Bœsch
Hendrik Leppkes
Rostislav Pehlivanov
Ronald S. Bultje
Lou Logan
wm4

No votes against.

Not counted:
Lukas Marek, Marton Balint, Carl Eugen Hoyos, Michael Niedermayer and
Paul B Mahol, as they didn't cast a clear vote.

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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Dropping SDL1 support [VOTE]

2016-09-22 Thread wm4 
On Thu, 15 Sep 2016 14:36:32 -0300
James Almer  wrote:

> There have been some complains from developers about keeping both
> SDL1 and SDL2 support at the same time even after all SDL1 code
> has been already ported, and especially since it makes maintaining
> ffplay more complex, so seeing the waters are divided I think the
> best solution will be to vote.

I vote for dropping SDL1 completely.
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Dropping SDL1 support [VOTE]

2016-09-20 Thread Ronald S. Bultje 
Hi,

On Mon, Sep 19, 2016 at 9:47 PM, Lukasz Marek 
wrote:

> On Sep 18, 2016 04:57, "Ronald S. Bultje"  wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > On Sat, Sep 17, 2016 at 4:26 PM, Marton Balint  wrote:
> >
> > > I think we should wait until Lukasz does the port of the opengl device
> to
> > > SDL2, and do the switch after that.
> >
> >
> > When do we think that'll be finished?
>
> I missed this, I alredy posted a patch, it needs just one line fix so not
> consider it as a blocker.


No worries, thanks for your efforts to move this forward.

Given the state of affairs, I vote to drop sdl1.

Ronald
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Dropping SDL1 support [VOTE]

2016-09-19 Thread Lukasz Marek 
On Sep 18, 2016 04:57, "Ronald S. Bultje"  wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> On Sat, Sep 17, 2016 at 4:26 PM, Marton Balint  wrote:
>
> > I think we should wait until Lukasz does the port of the opengl device
to
> > SDL2, and do the switch after that.
>
>
> When do we think that'll be finished?

I missed this, I alredy posted a patch, it needs just one line fix so not
consider it as a blocker.
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Dropping SDL1 support [VOTE]

2016-09-17 Thread Ronald S. Bultje 
Hi,

On Sat, Sep 17, 2016 at 4:26 PM, Marton Balint  wrote:

> I think we should wait until Lukasz does the port of the opengl device to
> SDL2, and do the switch after that.


When do we think that'll be finished?

Ronald
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Dropping SDL1 support [VOTE]

2016-09-17 Thread Michael Niedermayer 
On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 02:36:32PM -0300, James Almer wrote:
> There have been some complains from developers about keeping both
> SDL1 and SDL2 support at the same time even after all SDL1 code
> has been already ported, and especially since it makes maintaining
> ffplay more complex, so seeing the waters are divided I think the
> best solution will be to vote.

Are there any developers currently depending on SDL1 in a way that
they cannot upgrade to SDL2 ?

Are debian old stable and Ubuntu 12.04 the only still maintained
affected distros ?

When SDL1 is replaced by SDL2 some announcment should be made,
that should contain instructions on how users of affected distros
can update to SDL2.
(maybe as a link to sdl2 packages where they exist or a link to
our wiki where we also document how other 3rd party libs can be build)

I dont want to tell our users "You must use a release for SDL support"
and then when they submit a bugreport or patch tell them "You must
use latest git master"
We want bug reports and patches against git master, always, we should
ensure git master works always

I vote for listening to our users and fellow developers and resolving
any issues a SDL1->SDL2 switch would have for them and once resolved
to drop SDL1

Thanks

[...]

-- 
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Dropping SDL1 support [VOTE]

2016-09-17 Thread James Almer 
On 9/17/2016 5:26 PM, Marton Balint wrote:
> 
> On Fri, 16 Sep 2016, Ronald S. Bultje wrote:
> 
>> Hi folks,
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 1:36 PM, James Almer  wrote:
>>
>>> The vote will end 1 week from now, simple majority wins, and
>>> it's open only to those in the voting committee[1].
>>> Marton Balint, while not in the committee, should IMO also
>>> have the chance to vote or at least comment since he's the
>>> main ffplay maintainer.
> 
> I think I am in the committee, it got extended, and I got in, somebody surely 
> can find the reference...

You're right, i missed the second extension. Sorry.

https://ffmpeg.org/pipermail/ffmpeg-devel/2015-November/183803.html

We should probably put the list in the website or somewhere
easily accessible, so people don't have to dig old emails.

There was also a third attempt to extend it but it seems it wasn't
well received because many of the suggestions were either devs long
gone or that had minimal infrastructure roles not related to the
core development of the project.
Unless I'm missing something, that one went nowhere and the above
mail is the most recent approved list. And IMO, since it's been a
year now it could be revised and some of those names suggested
again, but that's another discussion.

> I'd rather drop SDL1, there are times when we bump the minimal version 
> requirements of external libraries, this is not that different.
> 
> On the other hand, if others do the work of maintaining the old sdl1 version 
> of ffplay and the devices, I don't really mind having them around for a few 
> more months, but I don't think it is necessary.

This is somewhat ambiguous, so before the voting is done it would be
great if you can make your vote clear :P

> 
> I think we should wait until Lukasz does the port of the opengl device to 
> SDL2, and do the switch after that.
> 
> Regards,
> Marton

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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Dropping SDL1 support [VOTE]

2016-09-17 Thread Marton Balint 


On Fri, 16 Sep 2016, Ronald S. Bultje wrote:


Hi folks,

On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 1:36 PM, James Almer  wrote:


The vote will end 1 week from now, simple majority wins, and
it's open only to those in the voting committee[1].
Marton Balint, while not in the committee, should IMO also
have the chance to vote or at least comment since he's the
main ffplay maintainer.


I think I am in the committee, it got extended, and I got in, somebody 
surely can find the reference...




Marton, it sounds like your opinion is valued. Penny for your thoughts? :)


I'd rather drop SDL1, there are times when we bump the minimal version 
requirements of external libraries, this is not that different.


On the other hand, if others do the work of maintaining the old sdl1 
version of ffplay and the devices, I don't really mind having them around 
for a few more months, but I don't think it is necessary.


I think we should wait until Lukasz does the port of the opengl device to 
SDL2, and do the switch after that.


Regards,
Marton
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Dropping SDL1 support [VOTE]

2016-09-17 Thread wm4 
On Fri, 16 Sep 2016 14:48:03 +0200
Carl Eugen Hoyos  wrote:

> 2016-09-16 14:21 GMT+02:00 Rostislav Pehlivanov :
> 
> > I'd rather have SDL1 support dropped. ffplay is the only thing on my
> > machine which uses libsdl1.2  
> 
> And we already (everybody) agreed that we want to switch to SDL2
> so that you (and others) do not have to use (or depend on) sdl1
> anymore.
> But this is an entirely different question that is completely unrelated
> to your installation:
> Do we allow developers to continue to use sdl1 to test on their
> old (but supported) Linux distributions or do we forcibly stop
> them from contributing here?

If that developer is apparently unable to update his system, then yes,
kick him out. 10 people not wanting to use SDL1 surely counts more than
1 person being too goddamn obstinate not to install SDL2 (or too
incompetent to do that?)

I'm always amazed by these absurdities.
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Dropping SDL1 support [VOTE]

2016-09-16 Thread Lou Logan 
On Thu, 15 Sep 2016 14:36:32 -0300, James Almer wrote:

> There have been some complains from developers about keeping both
> SDL1 and SDL2 support at the same time even after all SDL1 code
> has been already ported, and especially since it makes maintaining
> ffplay more complex, so seeing the waters are divided I think the
> best solution will be to vote.
[...]

I vote in favor of dropping SDL1.
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Dropping SDL1 support [VOTE]

2016-09-16 Thread Ronald S. Bultje 
Hi,

On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 12:22 PM, Carl Eugen Hoyos 
wrote:

> 2016-09-16 18:19 GMT+02:00 Ronald S. Bultje :
> > Hi,
> >
> > On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 12:16 PM, Carl Eugen Hoyos 
> > wrote:
> >
> >> 2016-09-16 16:07 GMT+02:00 Hendrik Leppkes :
> >>
> >> > You want other developers to do more work
> >>
> >> Of which work are you talking about?
> >
> > Installing libsdl1.
>
> I don't understand: Why would a developer who has libsdl2 install
> libsdl1 after we switched the default sdl to sdl2?


Oh, you mean the sdl1+2 variant; I agree with others that duplicate code is
never a good thing, particularly not for this ridiculous reason that some
of our devs refuse to go through the trouble to install libsdl2.

Ronald
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Dropping SDL1 support [VOTE]

2016-09-16 Thread Carl Eugen Hoyos 
2016-09-16 18:24 GMT+02:00 Josh de Kock :
> On 16/09/2016 17:22, Carl Eugen Hoyos wrote:
>>
>> 2016-09-16 18:19 GMT+02:00 Ronald S. Bultje :
>>>
>>> On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 12:16 PM, Carl Eugen Hoyos 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 2016-09-16 16:07 GMT+02:00 Hendrik Leppkes :

> You want other developers to do more work

 Of which work are you talking about?
>>>
>>> Installing libsdl1.
>>
>> I don't understand: Why would a developer who has libsdl2 install
>> libsdl1 after we switched the default sdl to sdl2?
>
> To maintain the sdl1 variant.

You of course do not have to maintain it: I find it extremely
helpful that you already did all the necessary work, asking
for more would be completely unreasonable.

Carl Eugen
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Dropping SDL1 support [VOTE]

2016-09-16 Thread Josh de Kock 

On 16/09/2016 17:22, Carl Eugen Hoyos wrote:

2016-09-16 18:19 GMT+02:00 Ronald S. Bultje :

Hi,

On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 12:16 PM, Carl Eugen Hoyos 
wrote:


2016-09-16 16:07 GMT+02:00 Hendrik Leppkes :


You want other developers to do more work


Of which work are you talking about?


Installing libsdl1.


I don't understand: Why would a developer who has libsdl2 install
libsdl1 after we switched the default sdl to sdl2?



To maintain the sdl1 variant.
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Dropping SDL1 support [VOTE]

2016-09-16 Thread Carl Eugen Hoyos 
2016-09-16 18:19 GMT+02:00 Ronald S. Bultje :
> Hi,
>
> On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 12:16 PM, Carl Eugen Hoyos 
> wrote:
>
>> 2016-09-16 16:07 GMT+02:00 Hendrik Leppkes :
>>
>> > You want other developers to do more work
>>
>> Of which work are you talking about?
>
> Installing libsdl1.

I don't understand: Why would a developer who has libsdl2 install
libsdl1 after we switched the default sdl to sdl2?

Carl Eugen
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Dropping SDL1 support [VOTE]

2016-09-16 Thread Ronald S. Bultje 
Hi,

On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 12:16 PM, Carl Eugen Hoyos 
wrote:

> 2016-09-16 16:07 GMT+02:00 Hendrik Leppkes :
>
> > You want other developers to do more work
>
> Of which work are you talking about?


Installing libsdl1.

Ronald
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Dropping SDL1 support [VOTE]

2016-09-16 Thread Carl Eugen Hoyos 
2016-09-16 16:07 GMT+02:00 Hendrik Leppkes :

> You want other developers to do more work

Of which work are you talking about?

Carl Eugen
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Dropping SDL1 support [VOTE]

2016-09-16 Thread Hendrik Leppkes 
On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 2:48 PM, Carl Eugen Hoyos  wrote:
> 2016-09-16 14:21 GMT+02:00 Rostislav Pehlivanov :
>
>> I'd rather have SDL1 support dropped. ffplay is the only thing on my
>> machine which uses libsdl1.2
>
> And we already (everybody) agreed that we want to switch to SDL2
> so that you (and others) do not have to use (or depend on) sdl1
> anymore.
> But this is an entirely different question that is completely unrelated
> to your installation:
> Do we allow developers to continue to use sdl1 to test on their
> old (but supported) Linux distributions or do we forcibly stop
> them from contributing here?
>

If you think its too much to ask a developer to either run a more
modern OS or manually install one dependency, then I don't think we
can help you.
You want other developers to do more work, just so that one or two
developers can stick to their antiquated development machines?

I find it odd that we typically ask much more of users then we can
even expect from our developers.


- Hendrik
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Dropping SDL1 support [VOTE]

2016-09-16 Thread Ronald S. Bultje 
Hi,

On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 8:48 AM, Carl Eugen Hoyos 
wrote:

> Do we allow developers to continue to use sdl1 to test on their
> old (but supported) Linux distributions or do we forcibly stop
> them from contributing here?


All developers are welcome. You'll just have to install libsdl2 yourself to
enable ffplay.

Ronald
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Dropping SDL1 support [VOTE]

2016-09-16 Thread Ronald S. Bultje 
Hi folks,

On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 1:36 PM, James Almer  wrote:

> The vote will end 1 week from now, simple majority wins, and
> it's open only to those in the voting committee[1].
> Marton Balint, while not in the committee, should IMO also
> have the chance to vote or at least comment since he's the
> main ffplay maintainer.


Marton, it sounds like your opinion is valued. Penny for your thoughts? :)

Ronald
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Dropping SDL1 support [VOTE]

2016-09-16 Thread Ronald S. Bultje 
Hi,

On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 8:01 AM, Carl Eugen Hoyos 
wrote:

> 2016-09-16 13:32 GMT+02:00 Paul B Mahol :
>
> >>> That's why i started this vote, to see how many devs are
> >>> effectively in favor or against and make the final decision
> >>> official.
> >>
> >> A vote on how evil the FFmpeg community is wrt to
> >> new (and existing) contributors? Seriously?
> >
> > Proof?
>
> Wasn't it explained that Debian Ubuntu LTS would not
> allow using ffplay anymore if this vote gets a yes?
> Or did I misunderstand?


Debian and Ubuntu LTS will continue to use the release branches of FFmpeg.

Ronald
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Dropping SDL1 support [VOTE]

2016-09-16 Thread Rostislav Pehlivanov 
On 15 September 2016 at 18:36, James Almer  wrote:

> There have been some complains from developers about keeping both
> SDL1 and SDL2 support at the same time even after all SDL1 code
> has been already ported, and especially since it makes maintaining
> ffplay more complex, so seeing the waters are divided I think the
> best solution will be to vote.
>
> Arguments in favor of keeping SDL1:
> * Debian Old-Stable and Ubuntu 12.04 don't ship an usable SDL2
>   by default, meaning a few extra steps for anyone wanting to
>   compile ffmpeg git would be needed to keep ffplay and the sdl
>   outdev working on them.
> * We have a dev willing to maintain the SDL1 version of ffplay
>   until the above two distros are EOLed.
>
> Arguments in favor of dropping SDL1:
> * SDL1 is old and effectively unmaintained.
> * The above distros will never upgrade their ffmpeg packages.
> * Anyone compiling ffmpeg git from source on any of the above
>   distros most likely already has to deal with other missing
>   deps, like any recent x264, be it from unnofficial PPAs or
>   manually compiling from source. SDL2 would not be any
>   different in that regard.
> * Even though we have a dev willing to maintain the deprecated
>   SDL1 code, he'd rather not have to deal with it.
>
> Other arguments in favor or against are welcome.
>
> The vote will end 1 week from now, simple majority wins, and
> it's open only to those in the voting committee[1].
> Marton Balint, while not in the committee, should IMO also
> have the chance to vote or at least comment since he's the
> main ffplay maintainer.
>
> Regards.
>
> [1] https://ffmpeg.org/pipermail/ffmpeg-devel/2015-October/182207.html
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I'd rather have SDL1 support dropped. ffplay is the only thing on my
machine which uses
libsdl1.2. Everything else has moved to libsdl2 (except dosbox which got
forked to support
sdl2 because development is mostly dead). Keeping a separate version of
ffplay (like ffmpeg_qsv)
doesn't sound to me like a good idea.
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Dropping SDL1 support [VOTE]

2016-09-16 Thread Carl Eugen Hoyos 
2016-09-16 13:32 GMT+02:00 Paul B Mahol :

>>> That's why i started this vote, to see how many devs are
>>> effectively in favor or against and make the final decision
>>> official.
>>
>> A vote on how evil the FFmpeg community is wrt to
>> new (and existing) contributors? Seriously?
>
> Proof?

Wasn't it explained that Debian Ubuntu LTS would not
allow using ffplay anymore if this vote gets a yes?
Or did I misunderstand?

Carl Eugen
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Dropping SDL1 support [VOTE]

2016-09-16 Thread Paul B Mahol 
On 9/16/16, Carl Eugen Hoyos  wrote:
> 2016-09-15 19:55 GMT+02:00 James Almer :
>> On 9/15/2016 2:51 PM, Carl Eugen Hoyos wrote:
>
>>> Didn't we all agree yesterday that this makes the transition
>>> less painful?
>>
>> Not all. Several mentioned on IRC that they didn't like it.
>
> So development discussion has moved to irc (again)?

Development discussion happens on irc all the time.
It's your problem you are rarely on irc.

>
>> That's why i started this vote, to see how many devs are
>> effectively in favor or against and make the final decision
>> official.
>
> A vote on how evil the FFmpeg community is wrt to
> new (and existing) contributors? Seriously?

Proof?
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Dropping SDL1 support [VOTE]

2016-09-16 Thread Carl Eugen Hoyos 
2016-09-15 19:55 GMT+02:00 James Almer :
> On 9/15/2016 2:51 PM, Carl Eugen Hoyos wrote:

>> Didn't we all agree yesterday that this makes the transition
>> less painful?
>
> Not all. Several mentioned on IRC that they didn't like it.

So development discussion has moved to irc (again)?

> That's why i started this vote, to see how many devs are
> effectively in favor or against and make the final decision
> official.

A vote on how evil the FFmpeg community is wrt to
new (and existing) contributors? Seriously?

>>> and especially since it makes maintaining
>>> ffplay more complex
>>
>> How?
>
> Having two separate codepaths, and needing to fix potential
> bugs in both.

Why?
I don't easily remember a "bug" in ffplay that needed fixing to
keep it 100% usable, there were many improvements and
there will be no reason to backport the future improvements.

Do you remember one?

Carl Eugen
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Dropping SDL1 support [VOTE]

2016-09-16 Thread Josh de Kock 

On 15/09/2016 23:00, Lukasz Marek wrote:

On 15.09.2016 23:36, Josh de Kock wrote:

On 15/09/2016 22:28, Lukasz Marek wrote:

On 15.09.2016 23:19, Moritz Barsnick wrote:

On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 14:36:32 -0300, James Almer wrote:

* SDL1 is old and effectively unmaintained.


I understand this verbatim, but what is it supposed to mean? Has SDL1
gotten rotten? Or more precisely:

- Has technology evolved, and the library not kept up?
- Is a long list of bugs (somehow effecting ffmpeg) piling up and never
  being fixed?
- Something else?


It doesn't compile on Mac OS


I've been testing it just fine on Mac OS.


I don't remember now everything, I worked with it like 2 years ago,  but
I got the same issue as here
https://forums.libsdl.org/viewtopic.php?p=45264=ae0efc2e82d373067c5112bfba70cd11


Other example is that SDL is trying to use X11 on Mac which is dropped
(since 10.8?).

You can ignore my answer as it doesn't stand for anything. It won't stop
introducing SDL 2.0 nor force 1.2 drop, but asked question if SDL 1.2 is
getting rotten then asnwer is yes IMHO.



SDL1 works absolutely fine on Mac OS, it uses the native window, no X11 
required.


--
Josh
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Dropping SDL1 support [VOTE]

2016-09-15 Thread Lukasz Marek 

On 15.09.2016 23:36, Josh de Kock wrote:

On 15/09/2016 22:28, Lukasz Marek wrote:

On 15.09.2016 23:19, Moritz Barsnick wrote:

On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 14:36:32 -0300, James Almer wrote:

* SDL1 is old and effectively unmaintained.


I understand this verbatim, but what is it supposed to mean? Has SDL1
gotten rotten? Or more precisely:

- Has technology evolved, and the library not kept up?
- Is a long list of bugs (somehow effecting ffmpeg) piling up and never
  being fixed?
- Something else?


It doesn't compile on Mac OS


I've been testing it just fine on Mac OS.


I don't remember now everything, I worked with it like 2 years ago,  but 
I got the same issue as here

https://forums.libsdl.org/viewtopic.php?p=45264=ae0efc2e82d373067c5112bfba70cd11

Other example is that SDL is trying to use X11 on Mac which is dropped 
(since 10.8?).


You can ignore my answer as it doesn't stand for anything. It won't stop 
introducing SDL 2.0 nor force 1.2 drop, but asked question if SDL 1.2 is 
getting rotten then asnwer is yes IMHO.


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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Dropping SDL1 support [VOTE]

2016-09-15 Thread Hendrik Leppkes 
On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 11:19 PM, Moritz Barsnick  wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 14:36:32 -0300, James Almer wrote:
>> * SDL1 is old and effectively unmaintained.
>
> I understand this verbatim, but what is it supposed to mean? Has SDL1
> gotten rotten? Or more precisely:
>
> - Has technology evolved, and the library not kept up?
> - Is a long list of bugs (somehow effecting ffmpeg) piling up and never
>   being fixed?
> - Something else?
>
> If so, please argument as such, that makes it easier to get the point.
> Being old an unmaintained, it *might* just as well work fine.
>

A summary of advantages was posted quite a while ago, and re-linked in
the thread that started this topic a few days ago:
https://ffmpeg.org/pipermail/ffmpeg-devel/2016-January/186299.html

Primarly, it adds more features that allow using more flexible output
paths, and improves performance.

There really is no question that we want SDL2 going forward, the only
question this vote is supposed to answer is what to do with SDL1.

- Hendrik
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Dropping SDL1 support [VOTE]

2016-09-15 Thread Hendrik Leppkes 
On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 7:36 PM, James Almer  wrote:
> There have been some complains from developers about keeping both
> SDL1 and SDL2 support at the same time even after all SDL1 code
> has been already ported, and especially since it makes maintaining
> ffplay more complex, so seeing the waters are divided I think the
> best solution will be to vote.
>
> Arguments in favor of keeping SDL1:
> * Debian Old-Stable and Ubuntu 12.04 don't ship an usable SDL2
>   by default, meaning a few extra steps for anyone wanting to
>   compile ffmpeg git would be needed to keep ffplay and the sdl
>   outdev working on them.
> * We have a dev willing to maintain the SDL1 version of ffplay
>   until the above two distros are EOLed.
>
> Arguments in favor of dropping SDL1:
> * SDL1 is old and effectively unmaintained.
> * The above distros will never upgrade their ffmpeg packages.
> * Anyone compiling ffmpeg git from source on any of the above
>   distros most likely already has to deal with other missing
>   deps, like any recent x264, be it from unnofficial PPAs or
>   manually compiling from source. SDL2 would not be any
>   different in that regard.
> * Even though we have a dev willing to maintain the deprecated
>   SDL1 code, he'd rather not have to deal with it.
>
> Other arguments in favor or against are welcome.
>
> The vote will end 1 week from now, simple majority wins, and
> it's open only to those in the voting committee[1].
> Marton Balint, while not in the committee, should IMO also
> have the chance to vote or at least comment since he's the
> main ffplay maintainer.
>
> Regards.
>

I vote for dropping SDL1 if adequate replacements based on SDL2 are
made available before.
I don't think its too much to ask developers of ffmpeg to either use
at least half-recent distributions, or be aware that its their
responsibility to gather external dependencies.

We typically ask much more of the users (ie. run ffmpeg git before
reporting issues), independent of availability in their distributions.

- Hendrik
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Dropping SDL1 support [VOTE]

2016-09-15 Thread Josh de Kock 

On 15/09/2016 22:28, Lukasz Marek wrote:

On 15.09.2016 23:19, Moritz Barsnick wrote:

On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 14:36:32 -0300, James Almer wrote:

* SDL1 is old and effectively unmaintained.


I understand this verbatim, but what is it supposed to mean? Has SDL1
gotten rotten? Or more precisely:

- Has technology evolved, and the library not kept up?
- Is a long list of bugs (somehow effecting ffmpeg) piling up and never
  being fixed?
- Something else?


It doesn't compile on Mac OS


I've been testing it just fine on Mac OS.

--
Josh
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Dropping SDL1 support [VOTE]

2016-09-15 Thread Lukasz Marek 

On 15.09.2016 23:19, Moritz Barsnick wrote:

On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 14:36:32 -0300, James Almer wrote:

* SDL1 is old and effectively unmaintained.


I understand this verbatim, but what is it supposed to mean? Has SDL1
gotten rotten? Or more precisely:

- Has technology evolved, and the library not kept up?
- Is a long list of bugs (somehow effecting ffmpeg) piling up and never
  being fixed?
- Something else?


It doesn't compile on Mac OS

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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Dropping SDL1 support [VOTE]

2016-09-15 Thread Moritz Barsnick 
On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 14:36:32 -0300, James Almer wrote:
> * SDL1 is old and effectively unmaintained.

I understand this verbatim, but what is it supposed to mean? Has SDL1
gotten rotten? Or more precisely:

- Has technology evolved, and the library not kept up?
- Is a long list of bugs (somehow effecting ffmpeg) piling up and never
  being fixed?
- Something else?

If so, please argument as such, that makes it easier to get the point.
Being old an unmaintained, it *might* just as well work fine.

Moritz
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Dropping SDL1 support [VOTE]

2016-09-15 Thread James Almer 
On 9/15/2016 2:51 PM, Carl Eugen Hoyos wrote:
> 2016-09-15 19:36 GMT+02:00 James Almer :
>> There have been some complains from developers about keeping both
>> SDL1 and SDL2 support at the same time even after all SDL1 code
>> has been already ported,
> 
> Didn't we all agree yesterday that this makes the transition less painful?

Not all. Several mentioned on IRC that they didn't like it.
That's why i started this vote, to see how many devs are
effectively in favor or against and make the final decision
official.

> 
>> and especially since it makes maintaining
>> ffplay more complex
> 
> How?

Having two separate codepaths, and needing to fix potential
bugs in both.

> 
> Carl Eugen
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Dropping SDL1 support [VOTE]

2016-09-15 Thread Carl Eugen Hoyos 
2016-09-15 19:36 GMT+02:00 James Almer :
> There have been some complains from developers about keeping both
> SDL1 and SDL2 support at the same time even after all SDL1 code
> has been already ported,

Didn't we all agree yesterday that this makes the transition less painful?

> and especially since it makes maintaining
> ffplay more complex

How?

Carl Eugen
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Dropping SDL1 support [VOTE]

2016-09-15 Thread Clément Bœsch 
On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 02:36:32PM -0300, James Almer wrote:
> There have been some complains from developers about keeping both
> SDL1 and SDL2 support at the same time even after all SDL1 code
> has been already ported, and especially since it makes maintaining
> ffplay more complex, so seeing the waters are divided I think the
> best solution will be to vote.
> 
> Arguments in favor of keeping SDL1:
> * Debian Old-Stable and Ubuntu 12.04 don't ship an usable SDL2
>   by default, meaning a few extra steps for anyone wanting to
>   compile ffmpeg git would be needed to keep ffplay and the sdl
>   outdev working on them.
> * We have a dev willing to maintain the SDL1 version of ffplay
>   until the above two distros are EOLed.
> 
> Arguments in favor of dropping SDL1:
> * SDL1 is old and effectively unmaintained.
> * The above distros will never upgrade their ffmpeg packages.
> * Anyone compiling ffmpeg git from source on any of the above
>   distros most likely already has to deal with other missing
>   deps, like any recent x264, be it from unnofficial PPAs or
>   manually compiling from source. SDL2 would not be any
>   different in that regard.
> * Even though we have a dev willing to maintain the deprecated
>   SDL1 code, he'd rather not have to deal with it.
> 
> Other arguments in favor or against are welcome.
> 
> The vote will end 1 week from now, simple majority wins, and
> it's open only to those in the voting committee[1].
> Marton Balint, while not in the committee, should IMO also
> have the chance to vote or at least comment since he's the
> main ffplay maintainer.

I'm all for dropping SDL1 if and only all the SDL1 code is ported to SDL2.
I absolutely want to avoid a duplicated copy of the ffplay code in our
source tree (and I don't want to consider #ifdery in ffplay either).

[...]

-- 
Clément B.
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