Re: [Finale] MIDI transcriptionism
And, of course, some autographs show evidence of substantial composition during the writing process (as opposed to simply writing down what's already planned out). The most famous examples are the Haydn quartets, which were clearly *not* written out in Mozart's typical method. For those who can read German: The Book Mozarts Schaffensweise (Mozratr's working methods) by Ulrich Konrad covers this topic in detail. In the first part of the book he also explores the historical development of the idea/legend of Mozart inventing everything in his head and then just copying onto paper. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Sound Volume
The volume within Finale is lower than the volume of music in other software. I have output mp3 files that play fine, but the volume is low compared to files from other sources. Is there some problem with my Finale set-up or is there some way to increase the volume of my mp3 files? WitnessSong ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Sound Volume
Eggleston wrote: The volume within Finale is lower than the volume of music in other software. I have output mp3 files that play fine, but the volume is low compared to files from other sources. Is there some problem with my Finale set-up or is there some way to increase the volume of my mp3 files? Do you use Save as Audio File? Do you have dynamics in your document? One simple way to increase the volume of the audio file is to load it into a wave editor and increase the volume there. Best regards, Jari Williamsson ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Sound Volume
Jari Williamsson wrote: Eggleston wrote: The volume within Finale is lower than the volume of music in other software. I have output mp3 files that play fine, but the volume is low compared to files from other sources. Is there some problem with my Finale set-up or is there some way to increase the volume of my mp3 files? Do you use Save as Audio File? Do you have dynamics in your document? One simple way to increase the volume of the audio file is to load it into a wave editor and increase the volume there. There are some MP3 level adjustment programs which can raise the average levels of a single MP3 file or a group of MP3 files. http://mp3gain.sourceforge.net/ is one such program. The other ways that she could get better volume are: 1) set the Playback Settings base key velocity to something much higher than the default 64 (I use 100); 2) double click the speaker icon in the systray (if Windows, I have no clue how to do this on a Mac) and raise the sliders for Midi and for Wave. -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] MIDI transcriptionism
On Dec 30, 2004, at 8:19 PM, Bruce Petherick wrote: And to add to the John Williams thing: Having worked in/for Hollywood composers for a while, I can tell you that Williams main way of composing is to write a melody line and then use letters to tell the arrangers/copyists what and how to fill in. I thought that this was rather well known, but it may just be the circle of people I used to work with :-) You can verify this by listening! Almost all of his scores do sound the same. A very important point to make is that the orchestrations are his own, in that he did come up with the original sounds in the first place Not Holst, Shostakovich, Tchaikovsky, Prokofiev, et al? A master's musicology student I went to school with put together a series of needle drops from famous composers' works that very closely mimicked the Star Wars main title. He played us the tape of Star Wars, then his tape of collected excerpts, and we all laughed at how close it was. I've composed style exercises, too, and I know that it is still composing, even if it is somewhat derivative. EVERYTHING is derivative in some way, and I never held that against anyone. Yet, and I'm sorry to say it this way, but commissioning work in a certain style does NOT make you the originator; the person who DOES the work is the originator. As much respect as I have for JW, this info diminishes him in my eyes. It pretty much reduces him to the role of a music editor who can write a melody. This reminds me of a certain jazz singer I worked for who asked me to write her an arrangement of a certain tune in the style of Kenny Wheeler, you know with all those cool colours and voicings. She gave me the key and nothing else; I looked up the tune and did everything else, and did not a bad job either, I think, as I am quite a fan of Kenny's and have checked out a lot of his scores and recordings. Then she demanded to be credited as arranger on the parts for the musicians! I think she thought this would increase her reputation in the eyes of her musicians, plus she would be able to write Arrangements by Jane Blow on her album and have the sheet music back her up. I refused point blank. I DID write her name under the title on each part, to show that these arrangements were part of her book, but that wasn't what she wanted; she wanted to co-opt the work I had done and call it hers for me to be her ghost writer. I see no difference between that and JW, if indeed this is his usual work method. I wonder then if the photocopied sketches I saw, purportedly in his hand, were actually the work of one of his assistants? Or perhaps he sketches himself for the important cues? Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] MIDI transcriptionism
At 09:24 AM 12/31/04 -0500, Christopher Smith wrote: A master's musicology student I went to school with put together a series of needle drops from famous composers' works that very closely mimicked the Star Wars main title. Check out The Private Lives of Elizabeth and Essex from the late 1930s. Listen to that film overture by Korngold, and you're hearing the fanfare, melody, harmony, phrasing, orchestration, and structure of the Star Wars overture. I heard it about the time Star Wars came out, and knew that Williams must have cribbed it. I played the Elizabeth and Essex music for my kids back in my elementary teaching days, and they all cheered because I was playing Star Wars. It seems to me he cribbed an awful lot of his material from others, or at best assembled re-assembled others' building blocks. He did orchestrate for the big names in his early days, isn't that right? As to the transcription topic, I charge MIDI transcription by the hour after having been burned by quoting a piece-price for a little 4-minute band march. It turned out the quantization was all screwed up and the 'orchestration' was jumbled lines and scraps patched into place as needed. Some instruments were used in only one measure. Dennis ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] MIDI transcriptionism
On Dec 31, 2004, at 1:13 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Christopher, Sorry for the delayI have been travelling and I wanted to be able to spend a bit of time on my reply to you! And a wonderful reply it is, too! So detailed, and it answers a lot of my questions about current practice and how to bill for it. Contrary to what might be said by some, I believe one can follow union guidelines for what to charge without being abusive or overcharging. If you are good at what you do, if you are conscientious and if you can be trusted to deliver a viable accurate product, people will pay you a for your services. That is very well-said, and indeed it is a big part of the subtext in all these arguments I have with clients. I suppose convincing the client is one of the sales jobs I have to do. I consider midi transcription to be any or all of these things: --Deleting redundant and/or empty tracks from a midi file --Quantizing each remaining track within my sequencer so that it will come into Finale nicely after export. --Exporting cleaned up and quantized midi file and then importing it into Finale. --Taking down any other loop or sample information that is part of the piece but may not be fullyindicated as notes in the file (I ask the composer to provide an audio file along with the midi file to make sure my work is accurate and has everything included.) --Setting up a completed sketch from the imported file in Finale which is an accurate representation of what is going on in the midi file complete with brief indications of where horns are muted, stopped etc. and strings are pizz, arco etc. and what notes are in harp glisses for example. Also if articulations are part of a patch name, I'll include a note about that in my sketch (i.e. stacc. horns) This final sketch should be similar to what a composer might normally hand his/her orchestrator. Your work method is good to see. I wonder, though, whether the usual six-staff sketch is viable in Finale, as there are so many fussy details that are easy to sketch in by hand with a pencil that are a pain (or more to the point, not time-effective) to do in Finale. What I am thinking of here are things like multiple sets of stems on one staff, instruments that only play a few notes like harp and percussion, or very dense passages with overlapping parts. Does your sketch vary in numbers of staves, and do you keep dissimilar parts always on different staves? Do you mix Finale and pencil on the same sketch? How do you deal with synth effects? I usually am asked to leave them out of the score, but I always feel that the conductor should know that there is a missing element, and the orchestrator DEFINITELY needs to know (which is usually me in my jobs!) So when I think about what the difference between Midi Transcription and Orchestration is, I'd say Midi Transcription is the doing whatever it takes to create a complete sketch from a midi file. From there, orchestration can be looked at in the same way that it always has been traditionally when receiving a sketch from a composer. That is very clear. Thank you. You are right here both are credited as orchestrator. And, yes, John Williams' sketches are very detailed already. Hmm, there seems to be some difference of opinion on that point. Bruce has weighed in recently with info to the contrary... To me, composing and orchestrating are one in the same from a creative standpoint. But there isn't enough time in the day to write out everything every time given the amount of music in a film, the fact that A list composers sometimes have more than one film going at a time, and the time constraints of deadlines. Hence the need for midi transcriptionists and/or orchestrators. Nor would I begrudge a busy composer the help he needs (I've had to subcontract at times myself.) I just believe in calling the work by the correct name, so everyone is clear on who did what exactly. .and arranging? In my mind, arranging is more about a chart for a pop/show tune or a jazz composition. I charge a flat rate for the whole arrangement if I am writing the arrangement. Fees will vary based on instrumentation and how long the chart is and of course, again, how well established the arranger is. Copying is a separate charge. Any takedown/transcription that is necessary as part of this processes is also charged separately. Takedowns in this situation would be charged at an hourly rate. Copying at the usual page rate. Again, I would again follow Brad's suggestion here...be very specific about what you are charging for and break it out for the client. Of course, there are gray areas here too. When dealing with Film and Television, even Tunes are often treated as orchestrations rather than arrangements depending on their context and whether or not they are falling under the category of underscore (including source music) Could you elaborate here? What do you mean by
RE: [Finale] MIDI transcriptionism
Yes, you are absolutely right. My wife has been addicted to the extended version documentaries for 3 years now. I've only had the opportunity to watch some of them, but I got the impression that most of the work was Kiwi-made. Your more in-depth scrutiny supports that impression completely. In the case of LOTR, it appears that cost savings were not the primary reason for off-shoring the work. Jackson had New Zealand in mind for the Middle Earth set for years. It turned out that quality and convenience merged in a truly serendipitous way for this work. I had my quibbles with their decisions on changes, but I understood their reasonings. The elves still were a bit too dour for my taste, but I loved Shore's musical score. The new super duper edition has an extra DVD that deals with the musical score, btw. You also get a Minas Tirath paper weight! Happy New Year everyone! Mike * Michael O'Connor [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of David W. Fenton Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2004 5:47 PM To: finale@shsu.edu Subject: RE: [Finale] MIDI transcriptionism On 30 Dec 2004 at 13:05, Michael O'Connor wrote: In the one case that I know anything at all about, the Lord of the Rings trilogy used a large number of New Zealand tech folks as well as extras, (and some credited actors). The rest were UK people, so I don't know if American work rules had anything to do with the entire project. of course most studios are international companies now ... Having just gone through the extended editions of all three movies and all the documentaries that come with them (11 hours of movies, 15+ hours of documentaries), the New Zealand connection was much greater than you are suggesting. So far as I can tell, *all* extras were Kiwis, as well as all the production crew with the exception of the management-level roles. All post-production was done in New Zealand with the exception of music recording, which was done in London because it was done by the London Philharmonic (easier to go to the orchestra than to bring the orchestra to NZ). The remarkable thing about the whole endeavor was that Peter Jackson (the director) basically created the whole production mechansim from scratch, for the purpose of making his films. He built a new sound facility literally from the ground up for the purpose of mixing his films (the last two were done there). Weta Workshop basically ramped up its staff to whatever level was needed to support the film, and brought in whatever expertise was necessary to get the job done (as well as innovating on their own in a number of areas). Even the digital FX were home-grown, with Weta Digital doing almost all of it (New Line, the distributors of the films, was not confident that Weta could successfully animate Gollum, and had to be convinced before signing off on turning over the wholesale creation of an entire critical character to the digital animators). At the end Jackson remarks in one of the documentaries that the three films were basically made by amateurs. There was, in fact, very little Hollywood involvement in the production. The cast was the most Hollywood part of the entire endeavor, and even that was heavily UK-based. And, no, my eyes didn't fall out after watching all of this. I did this in the evenings over the holidays, and was riveted. I first rewatched the original versions of all three films. I then watched the extended versions with commentary from the director and writers. After each, I watched the 5+ hours of documentaries associated with that film before going on to the commentary for the next film. Last of all, I watched all three extended editions in succession (though I basically watched half a movie each night, as by this time, I was pretty worn out). It's a pretty amazing accomplishment, over all, comparable, in my opinion, to Wagner's mounting of his Ring Cycle the first time at Bayreuth. I think, though, that I'm going to wait a while before listening to the other commentaries! -- David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Film scores and their composers (was MIDI transcriptionism)
Christopher Smith wrote: On Dec 30, 2004, at 8:19 PM, Bruce Petherick wrote: And to add to the John Williams thing: Having worked in/for Hollywood composers orchestrations are his own, in that he did come up with the original sounds in the first place Not Holst, Shostakovich, Tchaikovsky, Prokofiev, et al? A master's musicology student I went to school with put together a series of needle drops from famous composers' somewhat derivative. EVERYTHING is derivative in some way, and I never held that against anyone. Yet, and I'm sorry to say it this way, but commissioning work in a certain style does NOT make you the originator; the person who DOES the work is the originator. As much respect as I have for JW, this info diminishes him in my eyes. It pretty much reduces him to the role of a music editor who can write a melody. As loathe as I am to defend Mr Williams. The reality is that a lot of this cribbing has to do with a couple of things. The _main_ reason is that the producer/director will often (as in almost all the time) give you a direction as to how the music should sound eg Tchaikovsish, Mozart .. just like that tinkly piano thing he wrote, etc etc I can a little private story, with all the names removed for contractual reasons: I was working on a big film and the well-known director had hired a relatively unknown composer. The direction was it is a big epic film with a hard edge. I need an orchestral score that sounds like the Planets. Just copy that!. I had been working with this composer for a while teaching orchestration/arranging and I suggested that we should use some Mahler as our object to copy (The composer was very untrained to do this, although their music in other forms is very good). I took some of the middle symphs, and we listened a couple of times through and picked some section that we liked and then copied the basic arrangement (which instrument has the tune, what the voicing was, who played a counter melody etc etc). The score had to do be done fast (what else is new) and I thought it all went quite well. What is mortifying for me now, is that the film score is heavily criticized for copying Holst! I am not too sure if my teaching completely failed, or that some parts of Mahler when played in a certain way.. Just to make clear what I meant before about JW and his orchestrations - what I meant was, no matter from where he originally got his voicings etc, his early scores where orchestrated by him, and it was only then when everyone wanted the Williams sound that he used the shortcuts. [I should state that I have never worked, or even met John Williams, but my information comes from 2 quite reliable sources and was true at least for the late '70s and '80s] Then she demanded to be credited as arranger on the parts for the musicians! I think she thought this would increase her reputation in the eyes of her musicians, plus she (similar story for me except the singer was a actress from a well-known Australian soap, and she sang me 5 secs of something that was in her head, which I turned into a 5 minute theatre piece). for me to be her ghost writer. I see no difference between that and JW, if indeed this is his usual work method. and this will be true of almost every Hollywood composer - I am not too sure about Randy Newman, as his arrangements are almost always unique. I wonder then if the photocopied sketches I saw, purportedly in his hand, were actually the work of one of his assistants? Or perhaps he sketches himself for the important cues? Without knowing the exact circumstance, I wouldn't know. Perhaps he is trying to build up an archive for history :-) Bruce Petherick ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Methods of composition
At 10:42 AM + 12/30/04, Ken Moore wrote: P.S.S. Christopher, thank you for also writing in your post about how you actually create your music i.e. still with paper and pencil at the piano in the beginning and then to the computer. I'm with you on that!! I can't write directly to the computer either though I know there are those who can and do with much success. I too usually start at the piano and then move to the computer to orchestrate. Maybe this is another idea for an OT conversation. I'm always curious as to others' methods of writing and how they go about the process. I'm another pencil and paper sketcher. My piano is at least 50 feet away from my computer set-up. Hal -- Harold Owen 2830 Emerald St., Eugene, OR 97403 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit my web site at: http://uoregon.edu/~hjowen FAX: (509) 461-3608 ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Methods of composition
Harold Owen wrote: At 10:42 AM + 12/30/04, Ken Moore wrote: P.S.S. Christopher, thank you for also writing in your post about how you actually create your music i.e. still with paper and pencil at the piano in the beginning and then to the computer. I'm with you on that!! I can't write directly to the computer either though I know there are those who can and do with much success. I too usually start at the piano and then move to the computer to orchestrate. Maybe this is another idea for an OT conversation. I'm always curious as to others' methods of writing and how they go about the I'm another pencil and paper sketcher. My piano is at least 50 feet away from my computer set-up. Could be worse - my keyboard (too small an apartment to fit a real piano) is right here, but usually buried in paper. Fortunately, I mostly use it just to work out voicings. cd ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Film scores and their composers (was MIDI transcriptionism)
Christopher Smith wrote: On Dec 30, 2004, at 8:19 PM, Bruce Petherick wrote: and this will be true of almost every Hollywood composer - I am not too sure about Randy Newman, as his arrangements are almost always unique. As are those of Danny Elfman, whose music I quite like. But I guess we all know that it is the work of his orchestrators. I wouldn't even know how to figure out who wrote what, given the final product. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Methods of composition
At 04:38 PM 12/30/04 -0800, Harold Owen wrote: I'm another pencil and paper sketcher. My piano is at least 50 feet away from my computer set-up. If my piano were 50 feet away from the computer, it would be in the garden. Oh, wait... I don't have a piano. Never could get past my aphasia and press the keys down in one hand without the other hand wandering off. For about eight years I only used the computer for entering compositions (I don't sketch outside my head), but recently I've been doing more pencil paper simply to have time away from the screen. Dennis ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] MIDI transcriptionism
Thank you ... very interesting. Dean On Dec 29, 2004, at 5:37 PM, David W. Fenton wrote: On 29 Dec 2004 at 16:44, Dean M. Estabrook wrote: Very interesting ... I was unaware of the complex relationship between composer/arr./orchestrator. Now I'm thinking, did any of the Great composers farm out their work to orchestrators, e.g., Beethoven, Mozart, etc..? I'm unaware of any completed works of Mozart in which he did not do the orchestration. His method of writing was quite systematic, and based in Italian practice. He wrote first the bass line and the first violin, which, in the Italian style, was the top line of his orchestral score. He then filled in the orchestration in a second pass. Of course, sometimes he'd fill in some of the orchestration on the first pass, but this was basically the way it was done. It was so clear that the publisher André printed a score of the overture to Don Giovanni that was in two colors of ink, black and red, that showed the two layers, with black being the first layer, red being the 2nd pass for orchestration. (it's actually a bit more complicated than that in the original MS, in that there seem to have been multiple pens used in the orchestration pass, to a lesser degree than in the original skeleton score, but it's still pretty clear that the was an initial full pass, then additional passes to fill in) The only case I can think of where Mozart had help (other than the complicated situation with the Requiem, which was obviously not his usual practice, since he generally didn't compose while dead) was in secco recitatives, not all of which he wrote. I believe that most of the secco recits in La Clemenza di Tito are not by Mozart, though they were, of course, considered by him to be satisfactory enough to have been used in performance. -- David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Para mí, la música es la respiración de la vida y de Dios. Per me, la musica è l'alito della vita e di Dio Pour moi, la musique est le souffle de la vie et de Dieu. Für mich ist Musik der Atem des Lebens und des Gottes. Dean M. Estabrook Retired Church Musician Composer, Arranger Adjudicator Amateur Golfer ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] karen/laloba2@sprintmail.com
Hi all: I must second lister Kim Richmond's comments about Karen G. Kim recommended her to set up my new Mac last July. I had no idea what a vast knowledge she has not only about the Mac, but also Finale. She has become a good friend. She is a real treasure. Bob Florence ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Methods of composition
Harold Owen / 04.12.30 / 07:38 PM wrote: I'm another pencil and paper sketcher. My piano is at least 50 feet away from my computer set-up. Same here. I am too used to piano sound. I have no piano chops to be attached to that instrument but I can't do voicing with the sound coming out of speakers. None of close voicings sounds right to my ear. There are a lot of flat-9th intervals I love to use, which sounds great when voicing with piano but never does with sampled piano sound or Finale playback, but it does reproduce the effect I tried on piano when played with live ensemble. -- - Hiro Hiroaki Honshuku, A-NO-NE Music, Boston, MA http://a-no-ne.com http://anonemusic.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] mass font substitution
On Dec 30, 2004, at 1:17 PM, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote: I know you're trying to avoid too much work, so maybe this isn't a good suggestion either. But were I to be creating a logo block, it would be a separate image file to drop in place. I don't know how your logo block works, but would an image do? I suppose I could create one in System 9, then use it in OSX, but placing it so as to carefully mask the original, non-image logo would be even more work than I'm looking at now. The original logo, created back in 1991, is an actual Finale page containing a single measure of music. The K that's causing all the trouble is a note expression, as are the other bits of text comprising Kallisti Music Press / Philadelphia. I keep it on a colophon template that I use to generate title pages and covers, which are separate files from the main body of each piece I publish. I realize that's a clumsy mechanism, but like the QWERTY keyboard, it's a legacy technology that I'm both stuck with and used to. I must admit I'm surprised about the font situation. I'd be stealing the font if some company screwed me like that. Someone else had the same idea on my behalf--but there's one more problem: My K is an outline character, and OSX versions of Finale no longer support outlining as a character style. Andrew Stiller Kallisti Music Press http://home.netcom.com/~kallisti/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] clef change after graces
FinMac 2K4. A trill with a nachschlag. Clef changes after the nachschlag. Finale apparently thinks the two graces belong to the following note rather than the preceding one, and displays them in the new clef regardless of its position. How do I get the graces to appear (and play back) in the proper clef? Andrew Stiller Kallisti Music Press http://home.netcom.com/~kallisti/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Time Signatures
Hi all! I was wondering if there was any way to make time signatures display without the denominator. ie: Instead of 16/8, just have '16' centered on the staff. Thanks, Taris ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Time Signatures
At 03:29 PM 12/31/2004, Taris L Flashpaw wrote: I was wondering if there was any way to make time signatures display without the denominator. ie: Instead of 16/8, just have '16' centered on the staff. I can think of a couple of ways. If you want this throughout the whole piece, first define your time sigs so they display with the same number for top and bottom. So if you have a 16/8 bar, set it to display as 16/16. You have to do this for all time sigs. Then in Document Options | Time Signatures, adjust the vertical adjustment for top and bottom numbers until you get them to coincide. For a normal height system, it looks like you want -24 EVPU for top and +24 EVPU for bottom. Alternatively, you could leave your 16/8 sig to display as 16/8, adjust the top number to display centered in the staff, and give the bottom number some huge displacement to push it off the page. This would be less work, since you wouldn't have to give all your time sigs an alternate display. You could also do this with expressions in place of time sigs. This is much more work, since it requires blank characters for the Finale-generated time sigs, so that the correct space is given, plus expressions placed at each time change, but I think it's the only way to get this effect if you only want it for part of the piece. Hope this helps. Aaron. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] clef change after graces
Dear Andrew, This will work if the Nachschlag is at the end of a bar. Enter the trill note with its full value with Speedy Entry. Remove the checks from Jump to Next Measure and Check for Extra Notes. Enter the Nachschlag notes and convert them to grace notes and reposition them. Enter the next note in the following bar and assign the new clef. If it's in the middle of a bar, do the same except space the real 16ths, then add the clef change, then use the % tool to reduce the size of the Nachschlag notes. Playback will be a bit awkward, but maybe you don't care about that. If you do, the work-around might be to use a visible measure that doesn't play and a hidden one that does. Two other possibilities: You could write the trill figure and Nachschlag in real time values (such as dotted quarter and two sixteenths) - or - you could enter the grace notes graphically. Hope there's a solution there for you. Hal FinMac 2K4. A trill with a nachschlag. Clef changes after the nachschlag. Finale apparently thinks the two graces belong to the following note rather than the preceding one, and displays them in the new clef regardless of its position. How do I get the graces to appear (and play back) in the proper clef? Andrew Stiller Kallisti Music Press http://home.netcom.com/~kallisti/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale -- Harold Owen 2830 Emerald St., Eugene, OR 97403 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit my web site at: http://uoregon.edu/~hjowen FAX: (509) 461-3608 ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] clef change after graces
Andrew Stiller wrote: A trill with a nachschlag. Clef changes after the nachschlag. Finale apparently thinks the two graces belong to the following note rather than the preceding one, and displays them in the new clef regardless of its position. How do I get the graces to appear (and play back) in the proper clef? How about like this: 1. Enter the full note and the nachschlag notes (two 16ths) as real notes (not grace notes) 2. Resize the nachschlag notes 3. Create 2 tuplets as: First note as a tuplet of 1 note in the space of full note duration - one sixteenth note (for example a whole note: 2 Half(s) in the space of 15 16th(s)). The nachschlag notes as a tuplet of two 16ths in the space of one 16 4. Remove tuplet numbers and brackets Best regards, Jari Williamsson ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Fwd: Who are you?
I'm a composer, sometimes doing sound installations, film orchestrations, and frequently writing about music. Born in southern California, my academic traveling papers are from Santa Cruz (BA) and Wesleyan (MA, PhD), composition study with Gordon Mumma, Lou Harrison, Alvin Lucier, and La Monte Young, studies in musical tuning with Erv Wilson (so I come from the experimental side of the new music spectrum). I lived and worked in Frankfurt, Germany from 1989 to 2000, since 2000 in Budapest, and will return to Frankfurt in mid-2005. My first notation program was homemade, written in Forth and then Postscript, then I moved to Masterscore on my Atari ST, and to Finale in the late 90's. I now have Finale, Turandot, and Harmony Assistant running on my Windows HD and Lilypond on the Linux side. Daniel Wolf ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] MIDI transcriptionism
On 31 Dec 2004 at 20:39, David Woodcock wrote: - Original Message - From: David W. Fenton So far as I can tell, *all* extras were Kiwis, as well as all the production crew with the exception of the management-level roles. All post-production was done in New Zealand with the exception of music recording, which was done in London because it was done by the London Philharmonic (easier to go to the orchestra than to bring the orchestra to NZ). Just as a matter of interest, some of the music for the Fellowship of the Rings was done in Wellington, New Zealand with the New Zealand Symphony Orchestra. The Mines of Moria sequence and the end part of the movie was needed for a thirty minute showing at the Cannes Film Festival and as the film was very much still in production at the time it was decided to record the music in Wellington to make things easier, and no doubt a lot cheaper. The rest of the movie is the LPO as is the rest of the Trilogy. I was fortunate to be doing music preparation on those sessions in the Wellington Town Hall. I'm surprised that little bit of home-town pride didn't make it onto the commentaries somewhere! Or maybe I just missed it. Of course, I haven't listened to *all* the commentaries yet, most notably, the post-production commentary with Howard Shore. I have listened to that for the first half of Fellowship, so I'll listen closely when I get to Moria for that. But so far, Shore's comments have all been basically leitmotiv naming, not extra-musical observations. And I must also observe that they haven't been terribly illuminating to *me* -- he seems to name the incredibly obvious themes or extremely obscure themes, and ignore the ones in between, the ones that are kind of prominent and memorable, but not as sharply defined as the main themes. I do intend to see if I can get a recording of his 2-hour suite created from the soundtracks for the 3 films -- I think there's much of great merit in what I've heard in the movie and look forward to hearing what he does with it as purely musical material. -- David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] MIDI transcriptionism
On 31 Dec 2004 at 12:49, Urs Liska wrote: [quoting me:] And, of course, some autographs show evidence of substantial composition during the writing process (as opposed to simply writing down what's already planned out). The most famous examples are the Haydn quartets, which were clearly *not* written out in Mozart's typical method. For those who can read German: The Book Mozarts Schaffensweise (Mozratr's working methods) by Ulrich Konrad covers this topic in detail. In the first part of the book he also explores the historical development of the idea/legend of Mozart inventing everything in his head and then just copying onto paper. Unfortunately, I don't think Konrad gets the division of types exactly correct. He classifies certain layers of discarded composition in the Haydn quartets MSS, for instance, as fragments and drafts, when they are clearly nothing of the sort. Konrad's classification scheme is both too detailed and too hazily defined, in my opinion. But we're stuck with it, as Konrad is one of the associate editors of Der Neue Köchel (along with Neal Zaslaw and my former dissertation advisor, Cliff Eisen). I don't want to seem to discard Konrad's work, though -- it's breathtaking in its detail. I just disagree with some of his classifications, and I do think he fundamentally misrepresents the relationship between the MSS and the compositional process as seen in examples like the Haydn quartets. -- David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
RE: [Finale] MIDI transcriptionism
On 31 Dec 2004 at 11:09, Michael O'Connor wrote: The new super duper edition has an extra DVD that deals with the musical score, btw. You also get a Minas Tirath paper weight! Which edition is that? I have the three extended editions, but I would have preferred a boxed set of the three together. Ack. Am I going to have to buy the whole thing yet again?!?! -- David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] clef change after graces
On Dec 31, 2004, at 11:51 AM, Andrew Stiller wrote: A trill with a nachschlag. Clef changes after the nachschlag. Finale apparently thinks the two graces belong to the following note rather than the preceding one, and displays them in the new clef regardless of its position. How do I get the graces to appear (and play back) in the proper clef? I assume you're talking about a mid-measure clef, right? If not, then I tried it and had no problem. One solution, I suppose, would be to break the measure in two, have an invisible barline, and adjust the measure numbers accordingly. mdl (Fin Mac 2k2) ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Broadway pit orchestras
At 2:11 PM -0500 12/31/04, Andrew Stiller wrote: RE the issue of rescoring for the rental market: When I saw _Fiddler on the Roof_ in its original production, there were several sizes of electric balalaika in the pit! What do people do with it now? How interesting! When we did it, there were no such books, and we certainly didn't miss them. Can't remember any other details, though. I assume that Local 802 provided what was needed, but chances would be few and far between here in the provinces. John -- John Susie Howell Virginia Tech Department of Music Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A 24061-0240 Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034 (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Sound Volume
- Original Message - From: Eggleston To: finale@shsu.edu Sent: Friday, December 31, 2004 1:05 PM Subject: [Finale] Sound Volume The volume within Finale is lower than the volume of music in other software. I have output mp3 files that play fine, but the volume is low compared to files from other sources. Is there some problem with my Finale set-up or is there some way to increase the volume of my mp3 files? WitnessSong Hi This may or may not be the cause of the problem, but one thing worth checking is the Base Key Velocity setting in your file. Finale uses this number as a multiplier to manipulate and calculate the key velocity settings of dynamic expressions. I'm not sure I understand how it does this in terms of midi data sent to the synth, but the setting does make a big difference to the sound output level when using the Playback toolbar. To check or alter the setting, load the file and then click on the Loudspeaker icon in the Playback Toolbar and you will see a dialogue box entitled Playback Settings. Here you can choose various settings concerning playback and near the top is a box marked Base Key Velocity. This number seems to be file specific rather than program specific but I might be wrong. Zero represents near silence and 127 is very loud. Finale usually defaults to 64, but I find this too low most of the time with my equipment. I suggest you try changing the setting to say 110 as a trial and see what happens. Peter -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.298 / Virus Database: 265.6.7 - Release Date: 30/12/04 ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] MIDI transcriptionism
The main Star Wars tune is pretty much identical to a tune Korngold uses often in Kings Row (the early 50s movie where Ronald Reagan says Where's the rest of me?). RBH Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote: At 09:24 AM 12/31/04 -0500, Christopher Smith wrote: A master's musicology student I went to school with put together a series of needle drops from famous composers' works that very closely mimicked the Star Wars main title. Check out The Private Lives of Elizabeth and Essex from the late 1930s. Listen to that film overture by Korngold, and you're hearing the fanfare, melody, harmony, phrasing, orchestration, and structure of the Star Wars overture. I heard it about the time Star Wars came out, and knew that Williams must have cribbed it. I played the Elizabeth and Essex music for my kids back in my elementary teaching days, and they all cheered because I was playing Star Wars. It seems to me he cribbed an awful lot of his material from others, or at best assembled re-assembled others' building blocks. He did orchestrate for the big names in his early days, isn't that right? As to the transcription topic, I charge MIDI transcription by the hour after having been burned by quoting a piece-price for a little 4-minute band march. It turned out the quantization was all screwed up and the 'orchestration' was jumbled lines and scraps patched into place as needed. Some instruments were used in only one measure. Dennis ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT: Who are you?
I am a lurker but I do appreciate the help one can get from this great list. You have always come through for me and I appreciate it very much. George Boziwick (b. 1954) Composer and Music Librarian Curator of the American Music Collection in the Music Division of The New York Public Library at Lincoln Center. Finale user since 1995. My Magnificat will be published by C.F. Peters early in 2005. Reside in Brooklyn, NY I am also a blues harmonica player. Lately playing with the Broken Hearted Blues Band in NYC. All best to each of you for the New Year. gb At 01:33 PM 12/30/2004, Johannes Gebauer wrote: Very nice to put some biographies to all those names! Here is some of mine: Born in 1970 in Berlin, I studied music at King's College, Cambridge (UK), and baroque and classical violin with Simon Standage. I then worked as a freelance violinist in London for a while, played with the Academy of Ancient Music and Collegium Musicum 90. I then decided I wanted to do more studying and went to the Schola Cantorum in Basle for a few years. Although my lessons with the violin teacher there (no need to mention names) ended rather abruptly after a disagreement, I was able to study with the Cellist Christophe Coin. I work mostly as a freelance violinist, and have played for the Bach Ensemble New York, and many lesser known German groups. For several years I have been a regular member with Cappella Coloniensis, the oldest Period Instruments Orchestra (I think) in the world, we just celebrated our 50th. (I am actually writing this from a hotel room in Dortmund, where we'll play a New Year's eve concert tomorrow. Our live recording of the original version of Wagner's Flying Dutchman is due to come out in the next few weeks - that's as far as our repertoire extends). I also have my own Ensemble, Camerata Berolinensis, and lead and direct a few others. Since this year I also play as a principal for a Canadian group called Aradia Ensemble. A few years ago I founded my own CD label, two CDs of Camerata Berolinensis have since come out. I do engraving on the side (a good way to kill time in hotels or trains), and hopefully will eventually start as a publisher on a small scale. I also still do some musicological research for Chris Hogwood. The latest news is that I am hopefully going to do some serious string quartet playing, although we are still very much at the beginning. When we get there, I'll make sure to let the list know about it... Johannes -- http://www.musikmanufaktur.com http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Methods of composition
Another pencil and paper person. I wish I had a keyboard or piano. I just write on paper, and eventually I get to school or someplace that has a keyboard instrument (half the time it's an organ) just so I can hear stuff. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT: Who are you?
George Boziwick (b. 1954) Have you noticed the clustering of people here by age? There appears to be a definite peak in the 40's and 50's. I may have mis-perceived this, but ... cd ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
RE: [Finale] MIDI transcriptionism
For each release there was a Special Extended Edition box that came with some sort of trinket for an extra $10. The Return of the King comes with a Minas Tirath box from Weta and an extra DVD Creating The Lord of the Rings Symphony. This link has the info: http://www.lordoftherings.net/homevideo/frame_special_dvd.html?NoMansExtndCu t Mike * Michael O'Connor [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of David W. Fenton Sent: Friday, December 31, 2004 6:49 PM To: finale@shsu.edu Subject: RE: [Finale] MIDI transcriptionism On 31 Dec 2004 at 11:09, Michael O'Connor wrote: The new super duper edition has an extra DVD that deals with the musical score, btw. You also get a Minas Tirath paper weight! Which edition is that? I have the three extended editions, but I would have preferred a boxed set of the three together. Ack. Am I going to have to buy the whole thing yet again?!?! -- David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
