Re: [Finale] Finale 2006b is Available.
David W. Fenton wrote: On 14 Dec 2005 at 2:40, John Bell wrote: When Sibelius first came up with this feature, there was a great deal of clamour from Finale users wanting the same thing. While I can see the usefulness of it in some circumstances, I am far from convinced that it is really worthwhile. Well, for perspective, I can't imagine how anyone would not immediately see the enormous benefit. Anyone who has produced parts in any preliminary stage of editing should be able to see it. When I was teaching at NYU, I always used to say that the best way to proofread the materials I was handing out to students was to make 50 copies of it and then read it -- at that point, every single error would stand out. Then I'd fix it and toss the original 50. The proofing never seemed to be as effective until I'd committed to making the photocopies. I feel the same way about making parts in Finale. It is almost always the case, for me, at least, that once parts are made, and even before they are used, I discover all kinds of problems, and then end up going back and making every single change twice. And then after the parts have been used, still more mistakes are found, and a further revision has to occur. And if it's my composition, I may decide to revise the piece, at which point, depending on the complexity and extent of the revisions, I may need to simply trash the previous set of parts and re-extract from scratch (and repeat all the tedious layout steps that are required to get them into shape; it does go faster, though, as I can start from the model of the older parts for things like page turns, etc.). The only people who would escape this kind of problem are: 1. people producing vocal scores or piano music or choral music, where there is no part extraction at all, OR 2. people who are producing scores of other kinds of music but are not contemplating a performance so they don't need to make parts. For me, anyone who makes parts will immediately see the benefit of linked parts as a massive time saver (assuming it's implemented well, and Sibelius certainly seems to have done it awfully well, seems to me). So, to me, it's just baffling how anyone could not consider this a huge win for a large number of Finale users. I've been clamoring for this for years, since the whole template and library model and the branching it creates have seemed to me to be very old-fashioned and hard to use for at least a decade. OK David, I accept your several points. I am most certainly not at all opposed to the idea of score/parts linking, only somewhat uncertain of its usefulness. I don't fall into either of your categories of people who would escape the problems associated with the status quo -- quite the contrary, I constantly make parts, and frequently need to make revisions after having done so. Perhaps it's just that I have become accustomed to the way things work at present. John ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale 2006b is Available.
John Bell wrote: Chuck Israels wrote: I have asked for some things, including some kind of score/part connection, and they seem to be considering that. Sibelius has forced this issue. I don't know this for sure. When Sibelius first came up with this feature, there was a great deal of clamour from Finale users wanting the same thing. While I can see the usefulness of it in some circumstances, I am far from convinced that it is really worthwhile. I am familiar with situations where time is short and any time-saving device is welcome, but I believe the Sibelius approach is not without hazards and I hope that MakeMusic proceeds with caution in this field. While the Sibelius approach does have some hazards, they have thought it through very nicely, so that it is possible to change things (font size, placement, spacing, etc.) in the parts and NOT have those changes show up in the score (or you can have them show up in the score, it's user selectable on an instance by instance basis). But there are some things which if changed in the parts are changed in the score with no option. These things are simple specific types of data, which if the user thinks things through carefully before starting a new project won't be an issue. As a first attempt at such a linking of parts/score the Sibelius approach is amazingly well done. I hope Finale's is equally well done or better. I am very encouraged by the long list of things that Finale has addressed in this 2006b patch. That these things have been fixed confirms what I've said all along -- that the marketing department forces these annual upgrades out the door before they're ready, and the real meat-and-potatoes of the employees at MakeMusic, the programmers, are perfectly able to do things properly when they're left alone to do them as they need to be done. The question as to why they weren't allowed to be fixed before the product was shipped remains to be answered by the corporate headquarters at MakeMusic! -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale 2006b is Available.
Eric Dannewitz wrote: Indeed, I agree on all these points. Part/Score linking would be huge. In addition, it would be good to have some sort of EASY way to apply page formats to all the parts. Like a dialogue window where you can save a Page format, load ones from a folder (like ones you liked from a different project), and apply them to certain parts. Sibelius allows a user to check a box and make a change apply to all the parts. -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale 2006b is Available.
Eric Dannewitz wrote: Oh, thats a good idea. Not. I think MakeMusic has dropped the ball with 2006, but I have hope they will get their act together for 2007 if they promise linked score and parts. Well, promising it means nothing -- they've promised lots in the past which hasn't come through (anybody using micnotator successfully for complex music?) Only if they come through with an easy-to-use linking which allows the user to either retain control over each item on each part or have them all be the same (user selectable on an item-by-item basis), and also allows editing in parts to reflect in the score or not (user selectable for each edit) will I consider their act together. But I also hope the marketing department is allowed to stay out of the way of the programmers, after an initial decision is made on what to include in the 2007 upgrade, and let the programmers decide when the new version is ready to bring to market rather than forcing a bug-riddled version with the all-too-familiar we'll fix it in the mix disclaimer. Oh, yes -- maybe Finale will also follow Sibelius' lead in allowing users to save a file in a previous-version format! That would be a god-send for many of us who have to work with others who haven't upgraded yet. Sibelius got that right two versions ago! -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale 2006b is Available.
To be fair (I guess), Finale has *always* had problems in its first releases. This is why I never adopt new versions before the maintenance release. Long ago I began thinking of the cycle starting in Jan. rather than July. It is a simple matter of prudence. Also, I don't think the marketing dept. (as much I have disagreed with them) is entirely to blame. Finale is a huge, complex, and mature program. A small company like MM simply does not have the resources to properly regression test a new release. I'm not sure any company would, esp. given the relatively low ROI on such an undertaking. So (of necessity) the early adopters are the regression testers. I have no experience with Sibelius, so I can't comment on what their x.0 releases are like. But because they have fewer upgrades, perhaps it is easier for users to forget any growing pains. David Bailey: let the programmers decide when the new version is ready to bring to market rather than forcing a bug-riddled version with the all-too-familiar we'll fix it in the mix disclaimer. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale 2006b is Available.
Eric Dannewitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Oh, thats a good idea. Not. I think MakeMusic has dropped the ball with 2006, but I have hope they will get their act together for 2007 if they promise linked score and parts. I'm hoping for it too, certainly, but some of the ways that Finale works right now makes me think that it won't be as easy as they think. Doing it right, in my mind, requires a software architecture that does a good separation of note data and the way it's formatted -- that's been part of Sibelius's engine from at least Sibelius 2 (don't know about before that). I haven't seen anything in Finale that makes me think it has that characteristic in its design, so I'm not convinced that it's going to be an easy fix. If they can get it out for the 2007 release, I'm going to be quite surprised. Either way, though, MakeMusic's dropping the ball at the same moment that Sibelius introduces the score/part linkage seems like a crucial misstep. It certainly has me looking strongly at jumping ship, and I'm clearly not the only one. -- Stephen L. Peters[EMAIL PROTECTED] GPG fingerprint: A1BF 5A81 03E7 47CE 71E0 3BD4 8DA6 9268 5BB6 4BBE Wishing I could be repaired again / I am lucky I can talk / Chewbacca please / Connect my knees / Fix me so I might walk... -- Star Wars: Musical Edition, Act V ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale 2006b is Available.
Stephen Peters wrote: Eric Dannewitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Oh, thats a good idea. Not. I think MakeMusic has dropped the ball with 2006, but I have hope they will get their act together for 2007 if they promise linked score and parts. I'm hoping for it too, certainly, but some of the ways that Finale works right now makes me think that it won't be as easy as they think. Doing it right, in my mind, requires a software architecture that does a good separation of note data and the way it's formatted -- that's been part of Sibelius's engine from at least Sibelius 2 (don't know about before that). I haven't seen anything in Finale that makes me think it has that characteristic in its design, so I'm not convinced that it's going to be an easy fix. If they can get it out for the 2007 release, I'm going to be quite surprised. Either way, though, MakeMusic's dropping the ball at the same moment that Sibelius introduces the score/part linkage seems like a crucial misstep. It certainly has me looking strongly at jumping ship, and I'm clearly not the only one. Just a word of warning to those who may be considering jumping ship -- buy Sibelius and work with it for a while before deciding if you want to really jump ship from Finale or simply benefit from an expanded toolkit with two engraving programs. Just jumping blindly (even on the recommendations of people well-versed in both) won't necessarily be a good thing for any specific individual. So don't abandon Finale while learning Sibelius. You may find you have to jump back later on. Think of it as sidling over to test the waters on the other side rather than jumping ship. :-) -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
RE: [Finale] First Finale 2006b bug?
I just created a file with four staves, all set to independent time sig and it works fine. Éric, I'd suggest sending this in to support... -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Éric Dussault Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 9:00 PM To: finale@shsu.edu Subject: Re: [Finale] First Finale 2006b bug? It is possible that it behaves this way with indepedant time signature on. Have you tried that? Le 05-12-13 à 21:53, Simon Troup a écrit : Hi Eric Can't reproduce that here at all. Eric Dussault Finale 2006b for Mac PowerMac G5 Dual 1.8 GHz 1GB Ram ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] changing staff name
On Dec 13, 2005, at 1:08 PM, ThomaStudios wrote: Update Groups in TGTools will do exactly what you need. I'm concerned that this plugin will revert the positioning of the two celesta staves to their default spacing. Will it not? --Andrew ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] changing staff name
On Dec 13, 2005, at 2:29 PM, Johannes Gebauer wrote: On 13.12.2005 dc wrote: In which case you could simply use Finalescript: search csta. replace cel. and be done with it. Excellent idea! Couldn't you also use Text Search and Replace? Of course I could! D'oh! Andrew Stiller Kallisti Music Press http://home.netcom.com/~kallisti/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale 2006b is Available.
At 10:48 AM 12/14/2005, dc wrote: Fisher, Allen écrit: Windows EPS, among a lot of other things. Has anyone tested this yet? I'd be interested in reading comments. I've never used this feature, but my curiosity was piqued. I just opened up a file at random and exported the first page as EPS. I got a message about a missing font (which is, in fact, currently missing from my system), and then the page exported fairly quickly. The exported EPS file seemed to open up just fine in Illustrator. FWIW, the options I had checked were 'Include TIFF Preview' and 'Include fonts'. I then went back and exported another page with 'Allow transparency' checked. Sure enough, the file opened in Illustrator and was transparent. (That is, an object placed behind the EPS showed through the parts where there was empty space.) Aaron. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] changing staff name
On 14.12.2005 Andrew Stiller wrote: Update Groups in TGTools will do exactly what you need. I'm concerned that this plugin will revert the positioning of the two celesta staves to their default spacing. Will it not? Well, you can try and revert if it does, but aren't the options all selectable? Also, by far your best option is the Text Search and Replace plugin, why not use that? Johannes -- http://www.musikmanufaktur.com http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] New Articulations Font
From: Eric Dannewitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: finale@shsu.edu Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 19:37:20 -0800 To: finale@shsu.edu Subject: Re: [Finale] Finale 2006b is Available. I think we need more articulations in Maestro for Jazz. I think Bill Duncan was going to do something but who knows. I can't really think of anything that I complain about other than looking for some sort of jazz articulation, and not finding it, and when I get done with a project and have to extract and format parts..always dread that. Hi all, I am working on a new Articulations font as we speak. It will contain all traditional music articulations, including those for jazz notation, in an engraver style. When it is presentable, I will post a PDF of everything up here for your comments and suggestions. I am hoping that this might become the definitive articulations font, and I value your input. I trust you all much more than those at MM who make artistic decisions. Any input and/or wish lists from you are welcome. Bill Duncan ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] New Articulations Font
Hey Bill, Good news indeed. Thanks, Chuck On Dec 14, 2005, at 9:17 AM, bill wrote: From: Eric Dannewitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: finale@shsu.edu Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 19:37:20 -0800 To: finale@shsu.edu Subject: Re: [Finale] Finale 2006b is Available. I think we need more articulations in Maestro for Jazz. I think Bill Duncan was going to do something but who knows. I can't really think of anything that I complain about other than looking for some sort of jazz articulation, and not finding it, and when I get done with a project and have to extract and format parts..always dread that. Hi all, I am working on a new Articulations font as we speak. It will contain all traditional music articulations, including those for jazz notation, in an engraver style. When it is presentable, I will post a PDF of everything up here for your comments and suggestions. I am hoping that this might become the definitive articulations font, and I value your input. I trust you all much more than those at MM who make artistic decisions. Any input and/or wish lists from you are welcome. Bill Duncan ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale 2006b is Available.
I haven't checked yet ... will the update allow us to save as an audio file? Dean On Dec 13, 2005, at 3:42 PM, Brad Beyenhof wrote: Yes, it's free. The 2006b updater is available from http://finalemusic.com, like all other incremental updates MakeMusic! has offered. -- Brad Beyenhof Real-time Finale discussion: http://www.finaleirc.com my blog: http://augmentedfourth.blogspot.com Silence will save me from being wrong (and foolish), but it will also deprive me of the possibility of being right. ~ Igor Stravinsky On 12/13/05, Dean M. Estabrook [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is it free? How does one get it? Dean On Dec 13, 2005, at 2:29 PM, Fisher, Allen wrote: Windows EPS, among a lot of other things. Readme: http://downloads.makemusic.com/forms/Finale2006bWhatsNew.pdf ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale 2006b is Available.
At 12:39 PM 12/14/2005, Dean M. Estabrook wrote: I haven't checked yet ... will the update allow us to save as an audio file? If you mean saving a file with GPO as an audio file, this was added in Fin2006a. Aaron. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale 2006b is Available. Score-part connction in 2007?
David's post says it all. I especially like : David W. Fenton wrote: ... When I was teaching at NYU, I always used to say that the best way to proofread the materials I was handing out to students was to make 50 copies of it and then read it -- at that point, every single error would stand out. Then I'd fix it and toss the original 50. The proofing never seemed to be as effective until I'd committed to making the photocopies. I thought I was the only one. Reminds me of the last orchestral piece I wrote. I painstakenly poured over each part, printed them and sent them on to the orchestra. Then I was copying them as PDFs onto a laptop to take with me to the first rehearsal with a small printer (just in case a part had gotten lost or left at home by someone). I could not believe my eyes when the first part - piccolo - popped up with it's first entrance in BASS CLEF and about twenty leger lines!!!. (When I had inserted a timpani cue I must have inadvertandly grabbed a few extra bars for the clef.) I corrected and reprinted it and, just before the rehearsal the next morning brought it to the player (who had gamely written names above the notes on the bad part). Nothing points out mistakes like a printer and on-site use, for some reason.Dynamic linking wouldn't help in the above situation, but I do face a huge project in which I have done hundreds of changes to an orchestral work that has already been performed. I'm not looking forward to re-extracting the parts, but I have no other choice. The old parts will help save time, but it will still take days. I will welcome the future dynamic linking, (or however the score-part connection will work) with an open checkbook. Raymond Horton Louisville Orchestra ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] New Articulations Font
Well, the basics. Falls, scoops, bends, turns, smears, shakes. Oh, and perhaps free update to people who bought your package *wink wink* bill wrote: Hi all, I am working on a new Articulations font as we speak. It will contain all traditional music articulations, including those for jazz notation, in an engraver style. When it is presentable, I will post a PDF of everything up here for your comments and suggestions. I am hoping that this might become the definitive articulations font, and I value your input. I trust you all much more than those at MM who make artistic decisions. Any input and/or wish lists from you are welcome. Bill Duncan ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] GPO-HP Tutorial Supplement
Just because I know you guys wouldn't want to miss it -- the GPO-HP tutorial I wrote for MakeMusic is included with the Fin2006b update. The file is called GPOHP Tutorial Supplement.pdf and it's located in the User Manual folder. Cheers, - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://secretsociety.typepad.com Brooklyn, NY ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] GPO-HP Tutorial Supplement
At 04:38 PM 12/14/2005, Darcy James Argue wrote: Just because I know you guys wouldn't want to miss it -- the GPO-HP tutorial I wrote for MakeMusic is included with the Fin2006b update. The file is called GPOHP Tutorial Supplement.pdf and it's located in the User Manual folder. It looks very useful, Darcy. Thanks. However, a slight correction -- p.76 mentions that the Windows version of the Ambience plugin lacks the Presets menu. (With the screenshot I sent you -- I recognize my color scheme!) Mirabile dictu, 2006b includes a Presets menu in the upper left! I guess it would have been nice for Makemusic to tell you they planned to include this. I should also note that the Windows version of the plugin still features a completely counterintuitive UI. Take a look at the image on p.76 in the PDF. You would think that you would manipulate this by painstakingly dragging the dials around in circles. But this is wrong! What you actually do is click on the dial, hold down the mouse button...and drag left and right AS THOUGH IT WERE A SLIDER! David Fenton would have a field day with this one. Aaron. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] GPO-HP Tutorial Supplement
Hey Aaron, This tutorial was actually written and sent to MM before 2006a was even released! Some of the information in the original document was updated to reflect changes to the maintenance release, and some of it was not. However, I'm glad to hear that Ambience presets are now available in the Windows version. As for the dials, they work the same as the dials in the Kontakt Player -- so at least it's consistently bad UI. The dials in the Finale mixer work in the way you suggest -- but even though that's much more intuitive UI, it actually makes them harder to manipulate (as you say, you have to painstakingly drag the knob on the dial). We Mac users got a lucky break -- the AU version of Ambience doesn't have a custom UI at all, just a bunch of generic horizontal sliders -- which makes everything easy to understand AND adjust. Knobs are great in the real world, but they are terrible as a UI element. - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://secretsociety.typepad.com Brooklyn, NY On 14 Dec 2005, at 5:09 PM, Aaron Sherber wrote: At 04:38 PM 12/14/2005, Darcy James Argue wrote: Just because I know you guys wouldn't want to miss it -- the GPO-HP tutorial I wrote for MakeMusic is included with the Fin2006b update. The file is called GPOHP Tutorial Supplement.pdf and it's located in the User Manual folder. It looks very useful, Darcy. Thanks. However, a slight correction -- p.76 mentions that the Windows version of the Ambience plugin lacks the Presets menu. (With the screenshot I sent you -- I recognize my color scheme!) Mirabile dictu, 2006b includes a Presets menu in the upper left! I guess it would have been nice for Makemusic to tell you they planned to include this. I should also note that the Windows version of the plugin still features a completely counterintuitive UI. Take a look at the image on p.76 in the PDF. You would think that you would manipulate this by painstakingly dragging the dials around in circles. But this is wrong! What you actually do is click on the dial, hold down the mouse button...and drag left and right AS THOUGH IT WERE A SLIDER! David Fenton would have a field day with this one. Aaron. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] GPO-HP Tutorial Supplement
Hi Darcy, Near the beginning of your tutorial on GPO HP, you mention that the Ambience AU plugin 1.05 is not compatible with Finale 2006. I've been using it (Mac) and wonder what the problem is. (Is it just the GUI?) Thanks. -Randolph Peters At 4:38 PM -0500 12/14/05, Darcy James Argue wrote: Just because I know you guys wouldn't want to miss it -- the GPO-HP tutorial I wrote for MakeMusic is included with the Fin2006b update. The file is called GPOHP Tutorial Supplement.pdf and it's located in the User Manual folder. Cheers, - Darcy ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] GPO-HP Tutorial Supplement
On 14 Dec 2005 at 17:09, Aaron Sherber wrote: I should also note that the Windows version of the plugin still features a completely counterintuitive UI. Take a look at the image on p.76 in the PDF. You would think that you would manipulate this by painstakingly dragging the dials around in circles. But this is wrong! What you actually do is click on the dial, hold down the mouse button...and drag left and right AS THOUGH IT WERE A SLIDER! David Fenton would have a field day with this one. I'm replying mostly just to test having switched my subscription to a different email address, but I was amused at the remark above, since it tends to cast me as someone who takes pleasure in pointing out user interface infelicities. I guess I do enjoy a good bout of Schadenfreude every now and again, but I don't really enjoy pointing out some of the awful UI implementations in any program that I depend on to the extent I depend on Finale. I am always surprised that the people who design them don't realize immediately that there's something wrong, but UI design is actually quite difficult -- you have to understand both your audience and the entire field of conventions and appropriate UI choices. It's more art than science. I do think that circular knobs do have no place whatsoever in a computer UI that is manipulated by a mouse, since there is no possible mouse motion that can ever be as easy or intuitive as turning a knob with physical fingers is. I just think there is never any way to to implement them in a manner that will make any kind of intuitive sense. I gather from the fact that you mention me here that this rant is something of a re-run, though -- I have no memory of having said this before, but if I did, I was right then, too! :) -- David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] GPO-HP Tutorial Supplement
At 05:41 PM 12/14/2005, Darcy James Argue wrote: As for the dials, they work the same as the dials in the Kontakt Player -- so at least it's consistently bad UI. See, now you're getting me to play more with this stuff. g In the Windows Finale GPO Kontakt player, the dials work *almost* the same -- instead of dragging left and right, you drag up and down. This, to me, is even *worse*, since it's even less obvious. Left-to-right makes some sense because of where the endpoints of the dial are, but up-to-down makes *no* sense. The dials in the Finale mixer work in the way you suggest -- but even though that's much more intuitive UI, it actually makes them harder to manipulate (as you say, you have to painstakingly drag the knob on the dial). Yes, I agree. We Mac users got a lucky break -- the AU version of Ambience doesn't have a custom UI at all, just a bunch of generic horizontal sliders -- which makes everything easy to understand AND adjust. I know -- your screenshot makes me jealous! Aaron. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Finale 2006 Win EPS working!
Hey, thanks MakeMusic / Coda! My biggest wish has been fulfilled. After (only) about ten years of waiting, EPS windows really works again! I just did some tests, and it works fine, but ONLY if I include the fonts which results in bigger files of course, but then, what the heck, it works!!! I didn't trust my eyes when I read about it today, and I hardly can believe it now I see a printed EPS imported into WinWord and scaled to 1000% printing perfectly... Thanks for regaining my trust into Finale Cheers to all Kurt ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] GPO-HP Tutorial Supplement
Hi Randolph, If you have Ambience 1.0.5 and open a document created on a machine with Ambience 1.0 (such as the Finale Default Files), you will not be able to use Ambience on that document. Moreover, Ambience reverb will become disabled entirely, for *all* documents until you relaunch Finale. (I think this bug is Mac-only.) Since Finale 2006 ships with Ambience 1.0, that's what most users will have, so to maintain compatibility with everyone else, it's best to stick with that version. If you never share Finale files with other users and never intend to use MakeMusic's Finale Default Files, you can stick with Ambience 1.0.5. - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://secretsociety.typepad.com Brooklyn, NY On 14 Dec 2005, at 5:39 PM, Randolph Peters wrote: Hi Darcy, Near the beginning of your tutorial on GPO HP, you mention that the Ambience AU plugin 1.05 is not compatible with Finale 2006. I've been using it (Mac) and wonder what the problem is. (Is it just the GUI?) Thanks. -Randolph Peters At 4:38 PM -0500 12/14/05, Darcy James Argue wrote: Just because I know you guys wouldn't want to miss it -- the GPO- HP tutorial I wrote for MakeMusic is included with the Fin2006b update. The file is called GPOHP Tutorial Supplement.pdf and it's located in the User Manual folder. Cheers, - Darcy ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] GPO-HP Tutorial Supplement
On 14 Dec 2005, at 5:54 PM, Aaron Sherber wrote: At 05:41 PM 12/14/2005, Darcy James Argue wrote: As for the dials, they work the same as the dials in the Kontakt Player -- so at least it's consistently bad UI. See, now you're getting me to play more with this stuff. g In the Windows Finale GPO Kontakt player, the dials work *almost* the same -- instead of dragging left and right, you drag up and down. Yes, that's how it is on Mac too. I didn't realize the Ambience dials were side-to-side. This, to me, is even *worse*, since it's even less obvious. Left-to- right makes some sense because of where the endpoints of the dial are, but up-to-down makes *no* sense. I agree, but that's Native Instruments for you. They're not even the worst offenders. I think digital audio software, as a class, tends to have the worst AI design of any type of software. - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://secretsociety.typepad.com Brooklyn, NY ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Studio View Staff Sets
Is it just me, or did MakeMusic miss an obvious implementation of Staff Sets within Studio View? (FinMac 2k6b) It seems like a no-brainer. -Randolph Peters ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] GPO-HP Tutorial Supplement
At 05:48 PM 12/14/2005, David W. Fenton wrote: different email address, but I was amused at the remark above, since it tends to cast me as someone who takes pleasure in pointing out user interface infelicities. Not that you take *pleasure* -- I don't think any of us does -- but that you tend to be more vocal and more explicit in (accurately) pointing out some of Finale's design deficiencies. I do think that circular knobs do have no place whatsoever in a computer UI that is manipulated by a mouse, since there is no possible mouse motion that can ever be as easy or intuitive as turning a knob with physical fingers is. Agreed. I gather from the fact that you mention me here that this rant is something of a re-run, though -- I have no memory of having said this before, but if I did, I was right then, too! :) I think there was once a discussion of the knobs in the new mixer view, which as Darcy mentions need to be grabbed and rotated. Awkward, but at least somewhat intuitive as far as what to do with them. This whole idea of treating a knob as though it were a slider makes *no* sense whatsoever. I had been trying to rotate them, with poor results, and it was only by complete accident that I stumbled on the correct way to manipulate them. As I said, the UI for the Kontakt player is even worse. Imagine a knob that controls L to R pan -- and the way you move the knob is by dragging up and down! Aaron. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale 2006b is Available. Score-part connction in 2007?
When I print parts, I often do some reformatting I would NOT like in the original score. However, I often correct or re-arrange some notes, and it would be very nice to have them automatically corrected in the score, as well. Also, added articulations and such. Or I find a faulty lyric in an extracted leadsheet. Wouldn't it be nice if it was corrected in the full score, as well? So - the best link, in my opinion, would be to have everything linked - but not formatting and all things related. Maybe there could be an option or a diologue box when saving it, as would you like to update your changes into the full score?... That would be great! Kurt At 21:11 14.12.2005, you wrote: David's post says it all. I especially like : David W. Fenton wrote: ... When I was teaching at NYU, I always used to say that the best way to proofread the materials I was handing out to students was to make 50 copies of it and then read it -- at that point, every single error would stand out. Then I'd fix it and toss the original 50. The proofing never seemed to be as effective until I'd committed to making the photocopies. I thought I was the only one. Reminds me of the last orchestral piece I wrote. I painstakenly poured over each part, printed them and sent them on to the orchestra. Then I was copying them as PDFs onto a laptop to take with me to the first rehearsal with a small printer (just in case a part had gotten lost or left at home by someone). I could not believe my eyes when the first part - piccolo - popped up with it's first entrance in BASS CLEF and about twenty leger lines!!!. (When I had inserted a timpani cue I must have inadvertandly grabbed a few extra bars for the clef.) I corrected and reprinted it and, just before the rehearsal the next morning brought it to the player (who had gamely written names above the notes on the bad part). Nothing points out mistakes like a printer and on-site use, for some reason.Dynamic linking wouldn't help in the above situation, but I do face a huge project in which I have done hundreds of changes to an orchestral work that has already been performed. I'm not looking forward to re-extracting the parts, but I have no other choice. The old parts will help save time, but it will still take days. I will welcome the future dynamic linking, (or however the score-part connection will work) with an open checkbook. Raymond Horton Louisville Orchestra ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale 2006b is Available. Score-part connction in 2007?
Best thing to do is download the Sib 4 demo and experiment with Dynamic Parts. Then email MM and tell them what you like and don't like about Sib's implementation. Trust me, after actually trying it out for a while, you will run into all sorts of dilemmas you hadn't previously considered, so it's important that everyone take a close look at how Sib does things before making recommendations. I happen to think Sib does it very, very well. The feature is carefully considered and elegantly executed (especially from a UI perspective). That's not to say Finale couldn't improve on Sib's Dynamic Parts in some areas… - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://secretsociety.typepad.com Brooklyn, NY On 14 Dec 2005, at 6:51 PM, Kurt Gnos wrote: When I print parts, I often do some reformatting I would NOT like in the original score. However, I often correct or re-arrange some notes, and it would be very nice to have them automatically corrected in the score, as well. Also, added articulations and such. Or I find a faulty lyric in an extracted leadsheet. Wouldn't it be nice if it was corrected in the full score, as well? So - the best link, in my opinion, would be to have everything linked - but not formatting and all things related. Maybe there could be an option or a diologue box when saving it, as would you like to update your changes into the full score?... That would be great! ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale 2006b is Available. Score-part connction in 2007?
At 06:51 PM 12/14/2005, Kurt Gnos wrote: So - the best link, in my opinion, would be to have everything linked - but not formatting and all things related. Not to rehash the discussion we had in depth when the latest version of Sibelius came out -- but this is just how Sibelius does it. Data (i.e., notes and such) are linked, but formatting is not (or at least, not necessarily). Aaron. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale 2006b is Available.
I think that's what I meant. I want to save a Fin File, in GPO to a file I can then pull into my iTunes, and thence to a CD. I didn't think that was possible with Fin2006, and if it is, I don't see it in the Save As options. Maybe I'm missing something. Dean On Dec 14, 2005, at 10:00 AM, Aaron Sherber wrote: At 12:39 PM 12/14/2005, Dean M. Estabrook wrote: I haven't checked yet ... will the update allow us to save as an audio file? If you mean saving a file with GPO as an audio file, this was added in Fin2006a. Aaron. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] GPO-HP Tutorial Supplement
Alright ... this is the best news of all. Dean On Dec 14, 2005, at 1:38 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote: Just because I know you guys wouldn't want to miss it -- the GPO-HP tutorial I wrote for MakeMusic is included with the Fin2006b update. The file is called GPOHP Tutorial Supplement.pdf and it's located in the User Manual folder. Cheers, - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://secretsociety.typepad.com Brooklyn, NY ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale 2006b is Available.
Dean, File - Save Special - Save As Audio File This has worked for GPO instruments since Fin2006a. If you never downloaded Fin2006a, there's no need to do so now. Just download and install Fin2006b. Cheers, - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://secretsociety.typepad.com Brooklyn, NY On 14 Dec 2005, at 7:10 PM, Dean M. Estabrook wrote: I think that's what I meant. I want to save a Fin File, in GPO to a file I can then pull into my iTunes, and thence to a CD. I didn't think that was possible with Fin2006, and if it is, I don't see it in the Save As options. Maybe I'm missing something. Dean On Dec 14, 2005, at 10:00 AM, Aaron Sherber wrote: At 12:39 PM 12/14/2005, Dean M. Estabrook wrote: I haven't checked yet ... will the update allow us to save as an audio file? If you mean saving a file with GPO as an audio file, this was added in Fin2006a. Aaron. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale 2006b is Available.
Ah, it's the Save Special that I forgot. Thanks, Dean On Dec 14, 2005, at 4:23 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote: Dean, File - Save Special - Save As Audio File This has worked for GPO instruments since Fin2006a. If you never downloaded Fin2006a, there's no need to do so now. Just download and install Fin2006b. Cheers, - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://secretsociety.typepad.com Brooklyn, NY On 14 Dec 2005, at 7:10 PM, Dean M. Estabrook wrote: I think that's what I meant. I want to save a Fin File, in GPO to a file I can then pull into my iTunes, and thence to a CD. I didn't think that was possible with Fin2006, and if it is, I don't see it in the Save As options. Maybe I'm missing something. Dean On Dec 14, 2005, at 10:00 AM, Aaron Sherber wrote: At 12:39 PM 12/14/2005, Dean M. Estabrook wrote: I haven't checked yet ... will the update allow us to save as an audio file? If you mean saving a file with GPO as an audio file, this was added in Fin2006a. Aaron. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale 2006b is Available.
At 07:10 PM 12/14/2005, Dean M. Estabrook wrote: think that was possible with Fin2006, and if it is, I don't see it in the Save As options. Maybe I'm missing something. File | Save Special | Save as Audio File. In the original Fin2006 release, you couldn't save GPO files as audio files; this was added in Fin2006a. (You could still save Finale files which used the SmartSynth to audio files in Fin2006.) Aaron. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale 2006b is Available.
Darcy: I just tried to save a GPO file as an audio file, and the message came up that Finale 2006 does not yet save a file as audio while using NI AU instruments. Softsynth, yes, but not the other. I downloaded the upgrade earlier today. Any thoughts? Dean On Dec 14, 2005, at 4:23 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote: Dean, File - Save Special - Save As Audio File This has worked for GPO instruments since Fin2006a. If you never downloaded Fin2006a, there's no need to do so now. Just download and install Fin2006b. Cheers, - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://secretsociety.typepad.com Brooklyn, NY On 14 Dec 2005, at 7:10 PM, Dean M. Estabrook wrote: I think that's what I meant. I want to save a Fin File, in GPO to a file I can then pull into my iTunes, and thence to a CD. I didn't think that was possible with Fin2006, and if it is, I don't see it in the Save As options. Maybe I'm missing something. Dean On Dec 14, 2005, at 10:00 AM, Aaron Sherber wrote: At 12:39 PM 12/14/2005, Dean M. Estabrook wrote: I haven't checked yet ... will the update allow us to save as an audio file? If you mean saving a file with GPO as an audio file, this was added in Fin2006a. Aaron. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Fermattas in resting parts
A minor dilemma: 1) Whenever there is a fermatta, I like to indicate it in resting parts as well (breaking multimeasure rests if necessary). I also like to indicate the beat the fermatta falls on (in the resting parts as well) -- so if the fermatta is on beat four, the resting parts won't just have a whole rest with a fermatta, they will have a whole rest, a quarter rest, and then a fermatta'd quarter rest. 2) I don't like to use dotted rests except in compound meters. 3) But in 4/4, if the fermatta'd note is a dotted half note on beat 2… and then there are a lot of instruments making entrances in a new tempo on beat 1 of the following measure… it seems like a dotted half rest w/fermatta might be the best solution in this case? Input appreciated. Cheers, - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://secretsociety.typepad.com Brooklyn, NY ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale 2006b is Available.
At 07:29 PM 12/14/2005, Dean M. Estabrook wrote: using NI AU instruments. Softsynth, yes, but not the other. I downloaded the upgrade earlier today. Any thoughts? This may be a silly question, but did you *install* the upgrade, or just download it? Does the title bar of your Finale say Finale 2006, Finale 2006a, or Finale 2006b? If it doesn't say Finale 2006b, then you haven't properly installed the upgrade. Aaron. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale 2006b is Available.
Dean, If you received that error message, you aren't running Finale 2006b. I hate to point out the obvious, but are you sure you INSTALLED the upgrade? You have to double-click on the installer after you have downloaded it. The other thing is, you must make sure you are launching Finale 2006b and not the original Finale 2006 (unlike most installers, the Finale 2006b installer does not replace the old version). If you have Fin2006 in your dock, drag it out of there and replace it with Finale 2006b. You can even delete your original Finale 2006 application to be certain you don't inadvertently launch Finale 2006 instead of Finale 2006b. - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://secretsociety.typepad.com Brooklyn, NY On 14 Dec 2005, at 7:29 PM, Dean M. Estabrook wrote: Darcy: I just tried to save a GPO file as an audio file, and the message came up that Finale 2006 does not yet save a file as audio while using NI AU instruments. Softsynth, yes, but not the other. I downloaded the upgrade earlier today. Any thoughts? Dean On Dec 14, 2005, at 4:23 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote: Dean, File - Save Special - Save As Audio File This has worked for GPO instruments since Fin2006a. If you never downloaded Fin2006a, there's no need to do so now. Just download and install Fin2006b. Cheers, - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://secretsociety.typepad.com Brooklyn, NY On 14 Dec 2005, at 7:10 PM, Dean M. Estabrook wrote: I think that's what I meant. I want to save a Fin File, in GPO to a file I can then pull into my iTunes, and thence to a CD. I didn't think that was possible with Fin2006, and if it is, I don't see it in the Save As options. Maybe I'm missing something. Dean On Dec 14, 2005, at 10:00 AM, Aaron Sherber wrote: At 12:39 PM 12/14/2005, Dean M. Estabrook wrote: I haven't checked yet ... will the update allow us to save as an audio file? If you mean saving a file with GPO as an audio file, this was added in Fin2006a. Aaron. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Audio files
Ok .. I opened up 2006b and made a short file, in GPO, which I was able to save as an audio file, and import into iTunes. So, that's cool. Now, is there a way to so the same with files I created in 2006, not 2006b, and do the same? Dean ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale 2006b is Available.
On Dec 14, 2005, at 4:47 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote: Dean, If you received that error message, you aren't running Finale 2006b. I hate to point out the obvious, but are you sure you INSTALLED the upgrade? You have to double-click on the installer after you have downloaded it. The other thing is, you must make sure you are launching Finale 2006b and not the original Finale 2006 (unlike most installers, the Finale 2006b installer does not replace the old version). Yes, I guess I just figured that out too ... I expected all my old files to automatically open in 2006b. I'll play around with this for a bit ... Thanks. Dean If you have Fin2006 in your dock, drag it out of there and replace it with Finale 2006b. You can even delete your original Finale 2006 application to be certain you don't inadvertently launch Finale 2006 instead of Finale 2006b. - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://secretsociety.typepad.com Brooklyn, NY On 14 Dec 2005, at 7:29 PM, Dean M. Estabrook wrote: Darcy: I just tried to save a GPO file as an audio file, and the message came up that Finale 2006 does not yet save a file as audio while using NI AU instruments. Softsynth, yes, but not the other. I downloaded the upgrade earlier today. Any thoughts? Dean On Dec 14, 2005, at 4:23 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote: Dean, File - Save Special - Save As Audio File This has worked for GPO instruments since Fin2006a. If you never downloaded Fin2006a, there's no need to do so now. Just download and install Fin2006b. Cheers, - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://secretsociety.typepad.com Brooklyn, NY On 14 Dec 2005, at 7:10 PM, Dean M. Estabrook wrote: I think that's what I meant. I want to save a Fin File, in GPO to a file I can then pull into my iTunes, and thence to a CD. I didn't think that was possible with Fin2006, and if it is, I don't see it in the Save As options. Maybe I'm missing something. Dean On Dec 14, 2005, at 10:00 AM, Aaron Sherber wrote: At 12:39 PM 12/14/2005, Dean M. Estabrook wrote: I haven't checked yet ... will the update allow us to save as an audio file? If you mean saving a file with GPO as an audio file, this was added in Fin2006a. Aaron. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Fermattas in resting parts
From: Darcy James Argue [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: finale@shsu.edu Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 19:38:25 -0500 To: finale@shsu.edu Subject: [Finale] Fermattas in resting parts A minor dilemma: 1) Whenever there is a fermatta, I like to indicate it in resting parts as well (breaking multimeasure rests if necessary). I also like to indicate the beat the fermatta falls on (in the resting parts as well) -- so if the fermatta is on beat four, the resting parts won't just have a whole rest with a fermatta, they will have a whole rest, a quarter rest, and then a fermatta'd quarter rest. Enter actual rests in the resting parts and apply the fermata to the target rest. Multimeasure rests will be broken for that measure, and it will be clear as a bell to the resting player, especially appreciated by orchestral percussion players. 2) I don't like to use dotted rests except in compound meters. That would depend on the rhythmic pattern being played elsewhere. For example, dotted-quarter/eighth repeated patterns are much more clearly indicated with a dotted quarter rest then a quarter/eighth. 3) But in 4/4, if the fermatta'd note is a dotted half note on beat 2 and then there are a lot of instruments making entrances in a new tempo on beat 1 of the following measure it seems like a dotted half rest w/fermatta might be the best solution in this case? It depends on where the upbeat to the next measure is and what is going on with that upbeat. Always allow some clear representation of what the upbeat is (and what's going on with it) with either a note or a rest. Bill Duncan ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale 2006b is Available.
Yeah, I just checked that, and I do, in fact, have it installed. Dean On Dec 14, 2005, at 4:39 PM, Aaron Sherber wrote: At 07:29 PM 12/14/2005, Dean M. Estabrook wrote: using NI AU instruments. Softsynth, yes, but not the other. I downloaded the upgrade earlier today. Any thoughts? This may be a silly question, but did you *install* the upgrade, or just download it? Does the title bar of your Finale say Finale 2006, Finale 2006a, or Finale 2006b? If it doesn't say Finale 2006b, then you haven't properly installed the upgrade. Aaron. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale 2006b is Available.
Ok, now some really stupid questions. 2006b is in my dock .. that's fine. So is 2006. (1) I'm not sure how to drag and delete 2006. (2) If I do delete 2006, will all my 2006 files open in 2006b, and thence be able to be saved as audio files, etc. Hey guys, I'm a tyro, ok? Dean On Dec 14, 2005, at 4:47 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote: Dean, If you received that error message, you aren't running Finale 2006b. I hate to point out the obvious, but are you sure you INSTALLED the upgrade? You have to double-click on the installer after you have downloaded it. The other thing is, you must make sure you are launching Finale 2006b and not the original Finale 2006 (unlike most installers, the Finale 2006b installer does not replace the old version). If you have Fin2006 in your dock, drag it out of there and replace it with Finale 2006b. You can even delete your original Finale 2006 application to be certain you don't inadvertently launch Finale 2006 instead of Finale 2006b. - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://secretsociety.typepad.com Brooklyn, NY On 14 Dec 2005, at 7:29 PM, Dean M. Estabrook wrote: Darcy: I just tried to save a GPO file as an audio file, and the message came up that Finale 2006 does not yet save a file as audio while using NI AU instruments. Softsynth, yes, but not the other. I downloaded the upgrade earlier today. Any thoughts? Dean On Dec 14, 2005, at 4:23 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote: Dean, File - Save Special - Save As Audio File This has worked for GPO instruments since Fin2006a. If you never downloaded Fin2006a, there's no need to do so now. Just download and install Fin2006b. Cheers, - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://secretsociety.typepad.com Brooklyn, NY On 14 Dec 2005, at 7:10 PM, Dean M. Estabrook wrote: I think that's what I meant. I want to save a Fin File, in GPO to a file I can then pull into my iTunes, and thence to a CD. I didn't think that was possible with Fin2006, and if it is, I don't see it in the Save As options. Maybe I'm missing something. Dean On Dec 14, 2005, at 10:00 AM, Aaron Sherber wrote: At 12:39 PM 12/14/2005, Dean M. Estabrook wrote: I haven't checked yet ... will the update allow us to save as an audio file? If you mean saving a file with GPO as an audio file, this was added in Fin2006a. Aaron. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
RE: [Finale] Fermattas in resting parts
A minor dilemma: 1) Whenever there is a fermatta, I like to indicate it in resting parts as well (breaking multimeasure rests if necessary). I also like to indicate the beat the fermatta falls on (in the resting parts as well) -- so if the fermatta is on beat four, the resting parts won't just have a whole rest with a fermatta, they will have a whole rest, a quarter rest, and then a fermatta'd quarter rest. 2) I don't like to use dotted rests except in compound meters. 3) But in 4/4, if the fermatta'd note is a dotted half note on beat 2… and then there are a lot of instruments making entrances in a new tempo on beat 1 of the following measure… it seems like a dotted half rest w/fermatta might be the best solution in this case? Input appreciated. Cheers, - Darcy I appreciate your desire for consistency, but obviously something's gotta give. Personally, I also always show fermatas in resting parts, but I only show the exact beat if the fermata doesn't take up the rest of the measure; i.e., I would show a fermata on beat two in a resting part if the regular tempo resumed on beat 3 or 4, but in your example I'm quite happy to show the fermata on a whole rest. I think as long as the regular tempo resumes immediately following the fermata, it will be completely clear and unambiguous to the player. The dotted half rest seems unnecessarily fussy to me, but I can understand why you would go with it. Lee Actor Composer-in-Residence and Assistant Conductor, Palo Alto Philharmonic http://www.leeactor.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Fermattas in resting parts
Darcy, After thinking a bit more, what is really the best thing to do is to put a cue line in the resting parts (either with notes or rhythms) and indicate it as such. Make sure you include the applicable pick-ups for the next downbeat. It will be even less ambiguous than simply entering rests. If, however, it is a simple fermata on the last note and a simple downbeat to the following measure, don't annoy the cat by giving unnecessary information. Apply the fermata as a measure expression, position it accordingly, and us a double bar or a tempo change indication (if applicable) to visually flag the section. Again, it depends on the situation. Bill ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Fermattas in resting parts
Hi Darcy, I think this is an esthetic decision rather than a issue of clarity. A dotted half rest will make things clear, but might look out of place. I might consider using a quarter rest and a half rest with the fermata on the half. I'm not sure though. I'd have to see it before I could decide. Chuck On Dec 14, 2005, at 4:38 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote: A minor dilemma: 1) Whenever there is a fermatta, I like to indicate it in resting parts as well (breaking multimeasure rests if necessary). I also like to indicate the beat the fermatta falls on (in the resting parts as well) -- so if the fermatta is on beat four, the resting parts won't just have a whole rest with a fermatta, they will have a whole rest, a quarter rest, and then a fermatta'd quarter rest. 2) I don't like to use dotted rests except in compound meters. 3) But in 4/4, if the fermatta'd note is a dotted half note on beat 2… and then there are a lot of instruments making entrances in a new tempo on beat 1 of the following measure… it seems like a dotted half rest w/fermatta might be the best solution in this case? Input appreciated. Cheers, - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://secretsociety.typepad.com Brooklyn, NY ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Fermattas in resting parts
Darcy, I like Bill's advice. Chuck On Dec 14, 2005, at 5:07 PM, bill wrote: Darcy, After thinking a bit more, what is really the best thing to do is to put a cue line in the resting parts (either with notes or rhythms) and indicate it as such. Make sure you include the applicable pick-ups for the next downbeat. It will be even less ambiguous than simply entering rests. If, however, it is a simple fermata on the last note and a simple downbeat to the following measure, don't annoy the cat by giving unnecessary information. Apply the fermata as a measure expression, position it accordingly, and us a double bar or a tempo change indication (if applicable) to visually flag the section. Again, it depends on the situation. Bill ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale 2006b is Available.
Dean, To remove the original Fin2006 icon from your dock, just drag the icon out of the Dock. Simple. If you want to remove the original Fin2006 from your hard drive entirely, open the Finale 2006b folder, and drag Finale 2006 to the trash. Do you live near an Apple retail store by any chance? Reason I ask, many of them offer regular, free OS X workshops that might help you get more comfortable with this stuff. Here's a list of Apple Store retail locations: http://www.apple.com/retail/ You can check the store's calendar to see if they offer that sort of thing. - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://secretsociety.typepad.com Brooklyn, NY On 14 Dec 2005, at 7:53 PM, Dean M. Estabrook wrote: Ok, now some really stupid questions. 2006b is in my dock .. that's fine. So is 2006. (1) I'm not sure how to drag and delete 2006. (2) If I do delete 2006, will all my 2006 files open in 2006b, and thence be able to be saved as audio files, etc. Hey guys, I'm a tyro, ok? Dean On Dec 14, 2005, at 4:47 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote: Dean, If you received that error message, you aren't running Finale 2006b. I hate to point out the obvious, but are you sure you INSTALLED the upgrade? You have to double-click on the installer after you have downloaded it. The other thing is, you must make sure you are launching Finale 2006b and not the original Finale 2006 (unlike most installers, the Finale 2006b installer does not replace the old version). If you have Fin2006 in your dock, drag it out of there and replace it with Finale 2006b. You can even delete your original Finale 2006 application to be certain you don't inadvertently launch Finale 2006 instead of Finale 2006b. - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://secretsociety.typepad.com Brooklyn, NY On 14 Dec 2005, at 7:29 PM, Dean M. Estabrook wrote: Darcy: I just tried to save a GPO file as an audio file, and the message came up that Finale 2006 does not yet save a file as audio while using NI AU instruments. Softsynth, yes, but not the other. I downloaded the upgrade earlier today. Any thoughts? Dean On Dec 14, 2005, at 4:23 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote: Dean, File - Save Special - Save As Audio File This has worked for GPO instruments since Fin2006a. If you never downloaded Fin2006a, there's no need to do so now. Just download and install Fin2006b. Cheers, - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://secretsociety.typepad.com Brooklyn, NY On 14 Dec 2005, at 7:10 PM, Dean M. Estabrook wrote: I think that's what I meant. I want to save a Fin File, in GPO to a file I can then pull into my iTunes, and thence to a CD. I didn't think that was possible with Fin2006, and if it is, I don't see it in the Save As options. Maybe I'm missing something. Dean On Dec 14, 2005, at 10:00 AM, Aaron Sherber wrote: At 12:39 PM 12/14/2005, Dean M. Estabrook wrote: I haven't checked yet ... will the update allow us to save as an audio file? If you mean saving a file with GPO as an audio file, this was added in Fin2006a. Aaron. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Fermattas in resting parts
Lee, As I said, there's a new tempo immediately following the fermatta. If the tempo didn't change in the following measure, I would probably be okay with a fermatta over a whole rest, but that's not the case. The resting players need to know what's going on in the measure with the fermatta so they don't #¢% up their entrance in the following measure (which, as I said, is in a new tempo). But Bill's suggestion of cue'ing the notes in the resting parts (dotted eighth-sixteenth- dotted-half w/fermatta) seems a bit fussy to me. I'm inclined to think the dotted half rest does the job with maximum efficiency, nontraditional though it may be. - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://secretsociety.typepad.com Brooklyn, NY I appreciate your desire for consistency, but obviously something's gotta give. Personally, I also always show fermatas in resting parts, but I only show the exact beat if the fermata doesn't take up the rest of the measure; i.e., I would show a fermata on beat two in a resting part if the regular tempo resumed on beat 3 or 4, but in your example I'm quite happy to show the fermata on a whole rest. I think as long as the regular tempo resumes immediately following the fermata, it will be completely clear and unambiguous to the player. The dotted half rest seems unnecessarily fussy to me, but I can understand why you would go with it. Lee Actor Composer-in-Residence and Assistant Conductor, Palo Alto Philharmonic http://www.leeactor.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Audio files
At 07:44 PM 12/14/2005, Dean M. Estabrook wrote: Ok .. I opened up 2006b and made a short file, in GPO, which I was able to save as an audio file, and import into iTunes. So, that's cool. Now, is there a way to so the same with files I created in 2006, not 2006b, and do the same? Of course. Start Fin2006b, and then do File | Open. Use that to open your Fin2006 file, and then save it as an audio file. Aaron. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Fermattas in resting parts
Hey Bill, I appreciate the advice, but 1) and 2) aren't dilemmas. It's the *combination* of 1) and 2) that creates the dilemma. And like I said, there's no upbeat. There's a fermatta on beat 2, and then the next entrance is a new tempo on beat one of the following measure, with lots of resting instruments coming in on beat one. But all that aside, I find it interesting that you'd use a dotted quarter rest in 4/4 under the circumstances you describe. As you know, that's very nonstandard (I personally would not do this and have never seen it) but obviously you know what works for you and your clients. I guess it's one of those persistent West Coast/East Coast things -- dotted eighth rests in 4/4 are definitely Not Done out here. - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://secretsociety.typepad.com Brooklyn, NY On 14 Dec 2005, at 7:49 PM, bill wrote: From: Darcy James Argue [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: finale@shsu.edu Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 19:38:25 -0500 To: finale@shsu.edu Subject: [Finale] Fermattas in resting parts A minor dilemma: 1) Whenever there is a fermatta, I like to indicate it in resting parts as well (breaking multimeasure rests if necessary). I also like to indicate the beat the fermatta falls on (in the resting parts as well) -- so if the fermatta is on beat four, the resting parts won't just have a whole rest with a fermatta, they will have a whole rest, a quarter rest, and then a fermatta'd quarter rest. Enter actual rests in the resting parts and apply the fermata to the target rest. Multimeasure rests will be broken for that measure, and it will be clear as a bell to the resting player, especially appreciated by orchestral percussion players. 2) I don't like to use dotted rests except in compound meters. That would depend on the rhythmic pattern being played elsewhere. For example, dotted-quarter/eighth repeated patterns are much more clearly indicated with a dotted quarter rest then a quarter/eighth. 3) But in 4/4, if the fermatta'd note is a dotted half note on beat 2… and then there are a lot of instruments making entrances in a new tempo on beat 1 of the following measure… it seems like a dotted half rest w/fermatta might be the best solution in this case? It depends on where the upbeat to the next measure is and what is going on with that upbeat. Always allow some clear representation of what the upbeat is (and what's going on with it) with either a note or a rest. Bill Duncan ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Audio files
Dean, Finale 2006b will (of course) open your Finale 2006 files. It will open files created in *any* previous version of Finale. Also, files saved by Finale 2006b can be opened by people who are still (for whatever reason) using Fin2006 or Fin2006a. There are no compatibility issues with maintenance releases. - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://secretsociety.typepad.com Brooklyn, NY On 14 Dec 2005, at 7:44 PM, Dean M. Estabrook wrote: Ok .. I opened up 2006b and made a short file, in GPO, which I was able to save as an audio file, and import into iTunes. So, that's cool. Now, is there a way to so the same with files I created in 2006, not 2006b, and do the same? Dean ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Fermattas in resting parts
Hi Chuck, It is. The dotted half rest + fermatta in the resting gives maximal rhythmic clarity (short of cueing the actual notes). It just looks odd, since it's not usually used in 4/4. If the consensus is that the dotted half + fermatta looks odd enough (or inelegant enough) to actually _throw_ people, then I'll use cue notes, as Bill suggested. - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://secretsociety.typepad.com Brooklyn, NY On 14 Dec 2005, at 8:09 PM, Chuck Israels wrote: Hi Darcy, I think this is an esthetic decision rather than a issue of clarity. A dotted half rest will make things clear, but might look out of place. I might consider using a quarter rest and a half rest with the fermata on the half. I'm not sure though. I'd have to see it before I could decide. Chuck On Dec 14, 2005, at 4:38 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote: A minor dilemma: 1) Whenever there is a fermatta, I like to indicate it in resting parts as well (breaking multimeasure rests if necessary). I also like to indicate the beat the fermatta falls on (in the resting parts as well) -- so if the fermatta is on beat four, the resting parts won't just have a whole rest with a fermatta, they will have a whole rest, a quarter rest, and then a fermatta'd quarter rest. 2) I don't like to use dotted rests except in compound meters. 3) But in 4/4, if the fermatta'd note is a dotted half note on beat 2… and then there are a lot of instruments making entrances in a new tempo on beat 1 of the following measure… it seems like a dotted half rest w/fermatta might be the best solution in this case? Input appreciated. Cheers, - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://secretsociety.typepad.com Brooklyn, NY ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] First Finale 2006b bug?
Le 05-12-14 à 11:28, Fisher, Allen a écrit :I just created a file with four staves, all set to independent time sig and it works fine. Éric, I'd suggest sending this in to support... Thanks Allen, already done. Eric Dussault ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Fermattas in resting parts
On 14 Dec 2005 at 20:48, Darcy James Argue wrote: It is. The dotted half rest + fermatta in the resting gives maximal rhythmic clarity (short of cueing the actual notes). It just looks odd, since it's not usually used in 4/4. If the consensus is that the dotted half + fermatta looks odd enough (or inelegant enough) to actually _throw_ people, then I'll use cue notes, as Bill suggested. I don't know what musical tradition you're writing in here, but as a classical musician, I don't see a darned thing strange or odd about it. My only worry is that people could miss the dot on the rest, and that most people's eyes kind of glaze over when they see half and whole rests, so they figure out the value from context, not from actually perceiving the shape of the rest. In this case, it should be really easy to figure out, so I wouldn't even worry about the dot. -- David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Fermattas in resting parts
Hi Darcy, Don't you need a pickup beat to show the new tempo? It's not clear to me how that will work. Something 's got to indicate the change of speed before it actually happens. I think I'd be considering putting the hold on the third beat and making the fourth beat be in the new tempo. Does that seem logical to you? Trying to help figure it out. Chuck On Dec 14, 2005, at 5:48 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote: Hi Chuck, It is. The dotted half rest + fermatta in the resting gives maximal rhythmic clarity (short of cueing the actual notes). It just looks odd, since it's not usually used in 4/4. If the consensus is that the dotted half + fermatta looks odd enough (or inelegant enough) to actually _throw_ people, then I'll use cue notes, as Bill suggested. - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://secretsociety.typepad.com Brooklyn, NY On 14 Dec 2005, at 8:09 PM, Chuck Israels wrote: Hi Darcy, I think this is an esthetic decision rather than a issue of clarity. A dotted half rest will make things clear, but might look out of place. I might consider using a quarter rest and a half rest with the fermata on the half. I'm not sure though. I'd have to see it before I could decide. Chuck On Dec 14, 2005, at 4:38 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote: A minor dilemma: 1) Whenever there is a fermatta, I like to indicate it in resting parts as well (breaking multimeasure rests if necessary). I also like to indicate the beat the fermatta falls on (in the resting parts as well) -- so if the fermatta is on beat four, the resting parts won't just have a whole rest with a fermatta, they will have a whole rest, a quarter rest, and then a fermatta'd quarter rest. 2) I don't like to use dotted rests except in compound meters. 3) But in 4/4, if the fermatta'd note is a dotted half note on beat 2… and then there are a lot of instruments making entrances in a new tempo on beat 1 of the following measure… it seems like a dotted half rest w/fermatta might be the best solution in this case? Input appreciated. Cheers, - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://secretsociety.typepad.com Brooklyn, NY ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Fermattas in resting parts
Chuck, This isn't my composition, but regardless, it's up to the eventual conductor to figure out how he wants to handle the new tempo. The hold is on the second beat. It doesn't make any sense at all to put a fermatta on the third beat, since there are no attacks on beat three. Anyway, if *I* were conducting it, I'd give beats 1 and 2 in the original tempo, hold on beat two, then give an upbeat in the new tempo. That's the most obvious way of handling it, at any rate, and that's why I think I probably want a dotted half rest on beat 2. Cheers, - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://secretsociety.typepad.com Brooklyn, NY On 14 Dec 2005, at 9:03 PM, Chuck Israels wrote: Hi Darcy, Don't you need a pickup beat to show the new tempo? It's not clear to me how that will work. Something 's got to indicate the change of speed before it actually happens. I think I'd be considering putting the hold on the third beat and making the fourth beat be in the new tempo. Does that seem logical to you? Trying to help figure it out. Chuck On Dec 14, 2005, at 5:48 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote: Hi Chuck, It is. The dotted half rest + fermatta in the resting gives maximal rhythmic clarity (short of cueing the actual notes). It just looks odd, since it's not usually used in 4/4. If the consensus is that the dotted half + fermatta looks odd enough (or inelegant enough) to actually _throw_ people, then I'll use cue notes, as Bill suggested. - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://secretsociety.typepad.com Brooklyn, NY On 14 Dec 2005, at 8:09 PM, Chuck Israels wrote: Hi Darcy, I think this is an esthetic decision rather than a issue of clarity. A dotted half rest will make things clear, but might look out of place. I might consider using a quarter rest and a half rest with the fermata on the half. I'm not sure though. I'd have to see it before I could decide. Chuck On Dec 14, 2005, at 4:38 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote: A minor dilemma: 1) Whenever there is a fermatta, I like to indicate it in resting parts as well (breaking multimeasure rests if necessary). I also like to indicate the beat the fermatta falls on (in the resting parts as well) -- so if the fermatta is on beat four, the resting parts won't just have a whole rest with a fermatta, they will have a whole rest, a quarter rest, and then a fermatta'd quarter rest. 2) I don't like to use dotted rests except in compound meters. 3) But in 4/4, if the fermatta'd note is a dotted half note on beat 2… and then there are a lot of instruments making entrances in a new tempo on beat 1 of the following measure… it seems like a dotted half rest w/fermatta might be the best solution in this case? Input appreciated. Cheers, - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://secretsociety.typepad.com Brooklyn, NY ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Fermattas in resting parts
Darcy James Argue wrote:The dotted half rest + fermatta in the resting gives maximal rhythmic clarity (short of cueing the actual notes). It just looks odd, since it's not usually used in 4/4. If the consensus is that the dotted half + fermatta looks odd enough (or inelegant enough) to actually _throw_ people, then I'll use cue notes, as Bill suggested. I agree that a dotted half rest in 4/4 is not very usual, but I wouldn't say it was non-standard (I think you used that _expression_ earlier) and I certainly wouldn't call it wrong. Most importantly, I think it would be crystal-clear to the players.John___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Fermattas in resting parts
On Dec 14, 2005, at 9:21 PM, John Bell wrote: Darcy James Argue wrote: The dotted half rest + fermatta in the resting gives maximal rhythmic clarity (short of cueing the actual notes). It just looks odd, since it's not usually used in 4/4. If the consensus is that the dotted half + fermatta looks odd enough (or inelegant enough) to actually _throw_ people, then I'll use cue notes, as Bill suggested. I agree that a dotted half rest in 4/4 is not very usual, but I wouldn't say it was non-standard (I think you used that expression earlier) and I certainly wouldn't call it wrong. Most importantly, I think it would be crystal-clear to the players. For what it's worth, I agree with John here. For maximum clarity everyone would understand that the tempo stops on beat 2, and resumes on beat 1 of the following measure. I have actually used this exact solution many times in my own music. In similar situations I see all too often a simple whole rest with a fermata in the resting parts, even when the playing parts continue playing up to last sixteenth of beat 4. I don't suggest it, but I mention it here just to show how a lack of clear indications of given beats in the measure can be overcome by musicians following a conductor. So I don't think anyone is going to sweat your dotted half rest... With all respects to Chuck and his idea of a preparatory beat, I find it MUCH more confusing to have empty beats given when nobody plays, so I would not endorse this (even if it was your own work, which I understand is not the case.)\ Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Fermattas in resting parts
Hmmmn, Maybe I get it. As I make the conducting motions, I make the second beat movement across my body (to the left) and that leaves two remaining beats to indicate the new tempo. Even safer, IMO. Is this not rational? No attacks on beat three - I'd be inclined to make two quarter rests with a hold on the second, then a half rest. Anyway, I'm not sure it's going to matter, if the conductor is clear. Chuck On Dec 14, 2005, at 6:18 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote: Chuck, This isn't my composition, but regardless, it's up to the eventual conductor to figure out how he wants to handle the new tempo. The hold is on the second beat. It doesn't make any sense at all to put a fermatta on the third beat, since there are no attacks on beat three. Anyway, if *I* were conducting it, I'd give beats 1 and 2 in the original tempo, hold on beat two, then give an upbeat in the new tempo. That's the most obvious way of handling it, at any rate, and that's why I think I probably want a dotted half rest on beat 2. Cheers, - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://secretsociety.typepad.com Brooklyn, NY On 14 Dec 2005, at 9:03 PM, Chuck Israels wrote: Hi Darcy, Don't you need a pickup beat to show the new tempo? It's not clear to me how that will work. Something 's got to indicate the change of speed before it actually happens. I think I'd be considering putting the hold on the third beat and making the fourth beat be in the new tempo. Does that seem logical to you? Trying to help figure it out. Chuck On Dec 14, 2005, at 5:48 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote: Hi Chuck, It is. The dotted half rest + fermatta in the resting gives maximal rhythmic clarity (short of cueing the actual notes). It just looks odd, since it's not usually used in 4/4. If the consensus is that the dotted half + fermatta looks odd enough (or inelegant enough) to actually _throw_ people, then I'll use cue notes, as Bill suggested. - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://secretsociety.typepad.com Brooklyn, NY On 14 Dec 2005, at 8:09 PM, Chuck Israels wrote: Hi Darcy, I think this is an esthetic decision rather than a issue of clarity. A dotted half rest will make things clear, but might look out of place. I might consider using a quarter rest and a half rest with the fermata on the half. I'm not sure though. I'd have to see it before I could decide. Chuck On Dec 14, 2005, at 4:38 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote: A minor dilemma: 1) Whenever there is a fermatta, I like to indicate it in resting parts as well (breaking multimeasure rests if necessary). I also like to indicate the beat the fermatta falls on (in the resting parts as well) -- so if the fermatta is on beat four, the resting parts won't just have a whole rest with a fermatta, they will have a whole rest, a quarter rest, and then a fermatta'd quarter rest. 2) I don't like to use dotted rests except in compound meters. 3) But in 4/4, if the fermatta'd note is a dotted half note on beat 2… and then there are a lot of instruments making entrances in a new tempo on beat 1 of the following measure… it seems like a dotted half rest w/fermatta might be the best solution in this case? Input appreciated. Cheers, - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://secretsociety.typepad.com Brooklyn, NY ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale 2006b is Available.
On 12/14/05, Darcy James Argue [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You can even delete your original Finale 2006 application to be certain you don't inadvertently launch Finale 2006 instead of Finale 2006b. What I usually do is use Stuffit to put the unused Finale version into a .sitx file, and then delete the application. This way I can easily get back to the old version if I somehow find the need to do so. In fact, I've currently done this with Finale 2006 on the computer in which it lags badly. This way no files get inadvertently opened up and converted. -- Brad Beyenhof Real-time Finale discussion: http://www.finaleirc.com my blog: http://augmentedfourth.blogspot.com Silence will save me from being wrong (and foolish), but it will also deprive me of the possibility of being right. ~ Igor Stravinsky ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Fermattas in resting parts
At 7:38 PM -0500 12/14/05, Darcy James Argue wrote: A minor dilemma: 3) But in 4/4, if the fermatta'd note is a dotted half note on beat 2 and then there are a lot of instruments making entrances in a new tempo on beat 1 of the following measure it seems like a dotted half rest w/fermatta might be the best solution in this case? Yes, absolutely. Make the resting part look just like the sound that will happen. If there are good reasons for not using dotted rests, this is a very good reason to make an exception. John -- John Susie Howell Virginia Tech Department of Music Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A 24061-0240 Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034 (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Fermattas in resting parts
At 6:03 PM -0800 12/14/05, Chuck Israels wrote: Hi Darcy, Don't you need a pickup beat to show the new tempo? It's not clear to me how that will work. Something 's got to indicate the change of speed before it actually happens. I think I'd be considering putting the hold on the third beat and making the fourth beat be in the new tempo. Does that seem logical to you? Actually it's always possible to make the cutoff also the upbeat, and it's trivial to indicate the new tempo and mood in the upbeat itself. It's what good conductors do! John -- John Susie Howell Virginia Tech Department of Music Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A 24061-0240 Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034 (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Fermattas in resting parts
John Howell wrote: At 6:03 PM -0800 12/14/05, Chuck Israels wrote: Hi Darcy, Don't you need a pickup beat to show the new tempo? It's not clear to me how that will work. Something 's got to indicate the change of speed before it actually happens. I think I'd be considering putting the hold on the third beat and making the fourth beat be in the new tempo. Does that seem logical to you? Actually it's always possible to make the cutoff also the upbeat, and it's trivial to indicate the new tempo and mood in the upbeat itself. It's what good conductors do! John In my scores I've sometimes tried to hook the new tempo and character indications to an upbeat, and it always causes problems when extracting parts. Invariably, good spacing would put the pickup at or near the end of the line, but all that text hooked to it won't allow it. It's much easier to put the text on the next downbeat and, as John say, let the conductor figure out that the pickup is in the new tempo. As far as the dotted half rest with the fermata attached - that is the exactly the situation in which I have most commonly seen dotted half rests in 4/4 scores. Makes sense. As does John's suggestion of the fermata on the third beat - depending on the music - which I've long forgotten. Raymond Horton Bass Trombonist, occasional composer and arranger, Louisville Orchestra ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale 2006b is Available.
On Dec 14, 2005, at 5:19 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote: Dean, To remove the original Fin2006 icon from your dock, just drag the icon out of the Dock. Simple. One would think so, but when I dragged, it just popped back into the dock ... hm. If you want to remove the original Fin2006 from your hard drive entirely, open the Finale 2006b folder, and drag Finale 2006 to the trash. Do you live near an Apple retail store by any chance? Reason I ask, many of them offer regular, free OS X workshops that might help you get more comfortable with this stuff. Not real close, but I sure could use some study in the matter. Thanks again for all the good info. Dean Here's a list of Apple Store retail locations: http://www.apple.com/retail/ You can check the store's calendar to see if they offer that sort of thing. - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://secretsociety.typepad.com Brooklyn, NY On 14 Dec 2005, at 7:53 PM, Dean M. Estabrook wrote: Ok, now some really stupid questions. 2006b is in my dock .. that's fine. So is 2006. (1) I'm not sure how to drag and delete 2006. (2) If I do delete 2006, will all my 2006 files open in 2006b, and thence be able to be saved as audio files, etc. Hey guys, I'm a tyro, ok? Dean On Dec 14, 2005, at 4:47 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote: Dean, If you received that error message, you aren't running Finale 2006b. I hate to point out the obvious, but are you sure you INSTALLED the upgrade? You have to double-click on the installer after you have downloaded it. The other thing is, you must make sure you are launching Finale 2006b and not the original Finale 2006 (unlike most installers, the Finale 2006b installer does not replace the old version). If you have Fin2006 in your dock, drag it out of there and replace it with Finale 2006b. You can even delete your original Finale 2006 application to be certain you don't inadvertently launch Finale 2006 instead of Finale 2006b. - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://secretsociety.typepad.com Brooklyn, NY On 14 Dec 2005, at 7:29 PM, Dean M. Estabrook wrote: Darcy: I just tried to save a GPO file as an audio file, and the message came up that Finale 2006 does not yet save a file as audio while using NI AU instruments. Softsynth, yes, but not the other. I downloaded the upgrade earlier today. Any thoughts? Dean On Dec 14, 2005, at 4:23 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote: Dean, File - Save Special - Save As Audio File This has worked for GPO instruments since Fin2006a. If you never downloaded Fin2006a, there's no need to do so now. Just download and install Fin2006b. Cheers, - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://secretsociety.typepad.com Brooklyn, NY On 14 Dec 2005, at 7:10 PM, Dean M. Estabrook wrote: I think that's what I meant. I want to save a Fin File, in GPO to a file I can then pull into my iTunes, and thence to a CD. I didn't think that was possible with Fin2006, and if it is, I don't see it in the Save As options. Maybe I'm missing something. Dean On Dec 14, 2005, at 10:00 AM, Aaron Sherber wrote: At 12:39 PM 12/14/2005, Dean M. Estabrook wrote: I haven't checked yet ... will the update allow us to save as an audio file? If you mean saving a file with GPO as an audio file, this was added in Fin2006a. Aaron. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Audio files
Very good ... thanks for the response. Dean On Dec 14, 2005, at 5:38 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote: Dean, Finale 2006b will (of course) open your Finale 2006 files. It will open files created in *any* previous version of Finale. Also, files saved by Finale 2006b can be opened by people who are still (for whatever reason) using Fin2006 or Fin2006a. There are no compatibility issues with maintenance releases. - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://secretsociety.typepad.com Brooklyn, NY On 14 Dec 2005, at 7:44 PM, Dean M. Estabrook wrote: Ok .. I opened up 2006b and made a short file, in GPO, which I was able to save as an audio file, and import into iTunes. So, that's cool. Now, is there a way to so the same with files I created in 2006, not 2006b, and do the same? Dean ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Audio files
Got it ... thanks for your collective patience. Dean On Dec 14, 2005, at 5:27 PM, Aaron Sherber wrote: At 07:44 PM 12/14/2005, Dean M. Estabrook wrote: Ok .. I opened up 2006b and made a short file, in GPO, which I was able to save as an audio file, and import into iTunes. So, that's cool. Now, is there a way to so the same with files I created in 2006, not 2006b, and do the same? Of course. Start Fin2006b, and then do File | Open. Use that to open your Fin2006 file, and then save it as an audio file. Aaron. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale 2006b is Available.
On 15 Dec 2005, at 12:25 AM, Dean M. Estabrook wrote: On Dec 14, 2005, at 5:19 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote: Dean, To remove the original Fin2006 icon from your dock, just drag the icon out of the Dock. Simple. One would think so, but when I dragged, it just popped back into the dock ... hm. Quit Finale first. And make sure you drag the icon all the way out of the dock. - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://secretsociety.typepad.com Brooklyn, NY ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
