Re: [Finale] piano-vocal template?
On Apr 16, 2010, at 9:43 PM, Noel Stoutenburg wrote: I see in the choral folder, a Vocal Solo with piano template in 2000, 2002, and 2003 (I own 2001, but don't have it installed presently), but do not find a Vocal Solo with piano template in 2004 or after. ... Thanks. I made a fresh one picking my own parts in the wizard and then revised it as needed. I just thought it was bizarre that it's not one of the built-in choices. Why would they remove that one? Isn't piano + voice pretty common? mdl ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] piano-vocal template?
Mark D Lew wrote: Thanks. I made a fresh one picking my own parts in the wizard and then revised it as needed. I just thought it was bizarre that it's not one of the built-in choices. Why would they remove that one? Isn't piano + voice pretty common? I'd say so, and I don't know why they'd drop the P/V, either. But then while checking I noticed that there are no other accompanied solo templates either--for example, for flute or trumpet or trombone and piano. I haven't used the set-up wizard in years, as it adds a significant quantity of bloat to a file, in the form of items (articulations, expressions, chord symbols, c) that are not going to be used in my work. Instead, I have built a set of custom libraries, and templates and load just what I need. A Piano / Violin score, and a Piano / Vocal score both start from the same base template, to which I add the necessary supplemental custom custom shape and character libraries I need. Thus, if you compare the expression lists, you will see the expressions con sord and pizz. and arco in the Violin composition, but not in the vocal one, and the expression with closed lips in the vocal one, but not the violin one. ns ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] piano-vocal template?
You can make a document style or styles with your libraries and settings loaded then use them with the setup wizard. No bloat required. On 17 Apr, 2010, at 9:26 AM, Noel Stoutenburg wrote: I haven't used the set-up wizard in years, as it adds a significant quantity of bloat to a file, in the form of items (articulations, expressions, chord symbols, c) that are not going to be used in my work. Instead, I have built a set of custom libraries, and templates and load just what I need. A Piano / Violin score, and a Piano / Vocal score both start from the same base template, to which I add the necessary supplemental custom custom shape and character libraries I need. Thus, if you compare the expression lists, you will see the expressions con sord and pizz. and arco in the Violin composition, but not in the vocal one, and the expression with closed lips in the vocal one, but not the violin one. Allen Fisher Founder and Principal Developer Fisher Art and Technology al...@fisherartandtech.com i...@fisherartandtech.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] piano-vocal template?
Use the setup wizard... I use it all the time as the starting point for templates and starting with 2009, when you open a template, you get the two pages of the setup wizard that let you do clef/key/time and title/composer/etc. On 16 Apr, 2010, at 4:38 PM, Mark D Lew wrote: I've recently upgraded to v2010. I've never used Finale's templates before, since I've got several of my own that I made ages ago and I've always use them to spawn new ones. But this time, rather than letting Finale convert the files I originally made in some ancient version, I want to start with fresh files created in v 2010, so that my files won't have legacy code hiding in them somewhere waiting to go buggy on me. I figured I'd start with one of MakeMusic's templates and then edit it to match all my preferred settings, but when I do New Document as Template, I don't see a piano-vocal template anywhere on the list. Is it really true that they don't have one, or am I looking in the wrong place? Seems weird to me they'd omit such a basic layout considering some of the obscure things they do include. mdl ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Allen Fisher Founder and Principal Developer Fisher Art and Technology al...@fisherartandtech.com i...@fisherartandtech.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] OT: My opera
Hi all, I'm trying to spread the word on my opera fundraising. It's a 60-day run to finish funding the opera that premieres in 2011: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/bathory/erzsebet-the-blood-countess-opera Many thanks for the OT promotion! Dennis ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT: My opera
On Apr 17, 2010, at 11:33 AM, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote: I'm trying to spread the word on my opera fundraising. It's a 60- day run to finish funding the opera that premieres in 2011: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/bathory/erzsebet-the-blood- countess-opera Ooh, great topic! Are you a descendant? mdl ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT: My opera
On Sat, April 17, 2010 3:03 pm, Mark D Lew wrote: On Apr 17, 2010, at 11:33 AM, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote: I'm trying to spread the word on my opera fundraising. It's a 60- day run to finish funding the opera that premieres in 2011: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/bathory/erzsebet-the-blood-countess-opera Ooh, great topic! Are you a descendant? Yes, indirect, at least as far as my grandfather told me in the 1950s. It's a very long story, with a 300-year break in the lineage coupled with a language I can't read. :) As much as I know is at bathory.org Dennis ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT: My opera
Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote: Hi all, I'm trying to spread the word on my opera fundraising. It's a 60-day run to finish funding the opera that premieres in 2011: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/bathory/erzsebet-the-blood-countess-opera Many thanks for the OT promotion! Dennis Good for you. I'd like to donate, but I can't find where. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT: My opera
On Apr 17, 2010, at 12:09 PM, dc wrote: As an indirect descendant,... Yeah, I saw that later. I guess I should read the link before replying! mdl ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Organ dynamics
Where is it necessary to place the dynamics when writing for organ? The manuscript I'm working from isn't consistent in the placement of dynamics. It also doesn't specify individual stops to use (for example, a trumpet stop that would naturally sound louder than a flute stop), so can one dynamic marking placed in between the top two staves suffice? Would the performer know that the dynamic also applied to the pedals? Are the pedals capable of playing at a different dynamic level than the manuals? I suppose that each organ is built differently, so it would be nearly impossible to prepare for every performance situation. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Organ dynamics
Ryan wrote: Where is it necessary to place the dynamics when writing for organ? Based upon my study of the organ, it varies depending upon the location, period and style in which the work is written, and in more recent years, even from one composer to another. . The manuscript I'm working from isn't consistent in the placement of dynamics. It also doesn't specify individual stops to use (for example, a trumpet stop that would naturally sound louder than a flute stop), so can one dynamic marking placed in between the top two staves suffice? One would often expect that a trumpet stop would sound larger than a flute stop, but this is not necessarily always true. A large organ will have loud flute stops, which might in some cases be as loud, or louder than a trumpet. Are the pedals capable of playing at a different dynamic level than the manuals? Yes. Would the performer know that the dynamic [given for the manuals] also applied to the pedals? Most knowlegable organists will be able to recognize when the pedals should be at the same dynamic level as one or both manuals, and if only one, then which one, but it would be wise to assume that not everyone will. I suppose that each organ is built differently, so it would be nearly impossible to prepare for every performance situation. This is a good supposition. My recommendation is to engrave what you have, then consult with the composer, or if it is not possible to consult with the composer, to solicit the advice of an experienced organist as to how to clarify the intentions of the composer. ns ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Organ dynamics
Thanks for your advice. The composer is deceased, so I can't consult with him. Would I be safe in supplying one dynamic for the manuals' staves and a separate dynamic for the pedals? Most passages in this work will show the same dynamic in both places. On Sat, Apr 17, 2010 at 3:50 PM, Noel Stoutenburg mjol...@ticnet.comwrote: Ryan wrote: Where is it necessary to place the dynamics when writing for organ? Based upon my study of the organ, it varies depending upon the location, period and style in which the work is written, and in more recent years, even from one composer to another. . The manuscript I'm working from isn't consistent in the placement of dynamics. It also doesn't specify individual stops to use (for example, a trumpet stop that would naturally sound louder than a flute stop), so can one dynamic marking placed in between the top two staves suffice? One would often expect that a trumpet stop would sound larger than a flute stop, but this is not necessarily always true. A large organ will have loud flute stops, which might in some cases be as loud, or louder than a trumpet. Are the pedals capable of playing at a different dynamic level than the manuals? Yes. Would the performer know that the dynamic [given for the manuals] also applied to the pedals? Most knowlegable organists will be able to recognize when the pedals should be at the same dynamic level as one or both manuals, and if only one, then which one, but it would be wise to assume that not everyone will. I suppose that each organ is built differently, so it would be nearly impossible to prepare for every performance situation. This is a good supposition. My recommendation is to engrave what you have, then consult with the composer, or if it is not possible to consult with the composer, to solicit the advice of an experienced organist as to how to clarify the intentions of the composer. ns ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
RE: [Finale] Organ dynamics
Ryan wrote: Where is it necessary to place the dynamics when writing for organ? The manuscript I'm working from isn't consistent in the placement of dynamics. It also doesn't specify individual stops to use (for example, a trumpet stop that would naturally sound louder than a flute stop), so can one dynamic marking placed in between the top two staves suffice? Would the performer know that the dynamic also applied to the pedals? Are the pedals capable of playing at a different dynamic level than the manuals? I suppose that each organ is built differently, so it would be nearly impossible to prepare for every performance situation. As I was writing this I see that Noel Stotenburg beat me to a reply, but since I've written this, here it is. When there is very specific registration (usually placed at the upper left above the first staff), I rely on that and don't worry about dynamics that are in the music since the organ is like an on/off switch -- sound on or sound off with the volume relative to the stop chosen (except the swell manual, see below). Each stop or combination of stops has its own volume and each manual and pedals can have its own volume. If the registration is vague, say: Sw. Solo 8' Gt. Strings, Flute 8' Ped. 8' then I look to see if there are any dynamics in the music and choose stops that are close to the dynamics. (In this example, some solo stops could be louder than others, while some flutes might be louder than the other). Sometimes composers will just put an f or mf in the music and not indicate registrations leaving it up to the organist to choose the appropriate registration. If I remember correctly, some, if not most of Bach's organ music doesn't have registrations or dynamics. As to placement of dynamics: If you want the top staff to be a different dynamic than the lower manual staff (2nd staff down) -- which also implies the two staves will be played on different manuals -- indicate the dynamic above the top staff and above, but close to the lower manual staff. Pedal dynamics are few and far between in my experience, but often are above the pedal staff (between the lower manual staff and pedal). If you want the two manual staves to played on the same manual, indicate which manual (eg. Sw or Gt or Ch, for Swell, Great and choir respectively) you want to be played and include a piano brace going from near the top of the top staff down to near the bottom of the lower manual staff. If you want the top staff to be one manual and the lower manual staff to be played on a different manual, place the indications in the same place you would the dynamics. On all organs I've played, the Swell manual has the ability to have a slight variation in volume levels, On a pipe organ, the Swell pipes are often enclosed in a box with a venetian blind, usually vertical, than can open or close to allow the slight variation in volume. (In a few rare cases, I've run across a similar situation with the choir or positiv manuals). You can use hairpin cresc. dim. symbols to indicate the opening and closing of the shutters. (Sometimes the registration will indicate open or closed swells). As you mentioned, each organ is different. I often find myself having to use different stops than called for or I have to adapt a piece written with 3 manuals in mind to a 2-manual organ. James Gilbert www.jamesgilbertmusic.com Organist, Church of the Mediator Episcopal, Micanopy, Florida PS. On my website, in the music catalog, the visual example for the organ arrangement of 'At The Cross' contains examples of all of the above (except pedal dynamics). (Click on the title name in the catalog, then on the graphic for a bigger sample). ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Organ dynamics
On 17 Apr 2010 at 19:11, James Gilbert wrote: If I remember correctly, some, if not most of Bach's organ music doesn't have registrations or dynamics. Absolutely none of Bach's organ music has registration or dynamics or tempo markings, and so far as I can recall, no articulations, either. There might be a slur or two. This was completely normal for the time period. The player could tell from the content of the music what was intended in regard to all of those parameters. So can any properly-trained modern organist. -- David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Organ dynamics
On 17 Apr 2010 at 15:30, Ryan wrote: Where is it necessary to place the dynamics when writing for organ? There is simply no cut-and-dried answer to this question. Each manual and pedal could have a different registration and thus, different dynamics. A single staff in the score could indicate any manual. If the organ has a swell division, the dynamics (including crescendo and diminuendo) would apply only to the stops inside the swell box. It's up to the composer to specify the desired stops (in general) and desired dynamics where they are not implied. To write Full Organ and pianissimo is going to puzzle most people. The dynamic marking is probably irrelevant in that case, in any event. If both staves are the same manual (or coupled), then, sure, a single dynamic mark between staves would suffice. If they are playing different stops, I'd suggest that unless the registration is very specific, a dynamic mark be provided for each staff (if necessary at all, of course -- depends on how specific the registration instructions are). Pedal is separate, though it can be coupled to the manuals and be playing the same stops as those on the manuals. The manuscript I'm working from isn't consistent in the placement of dynamics. Seems to me that's likely normal. It also doesn't specify individual stops to use (for example, a trumpet stop that would naturally sound louder than a flute stop), so can one dynamic marking placed in between the top two staves suffice? Would the performer know that the dynamic also applied to the pedals? Does it apply to the pedals? There's really not enough information to answer the question. Are the pedals capable of playing at a different dynamic level than the manuals? Naturally -- the pedal division has its own pipes, completely separate from those of the manuals (though certainly the ranks might be used on more than one manual, and the pedals can be coupled to the manuals). But all of that depends on the style of organ. A 1937 Moeller is going to be very different from a 1976 Flentrop. The composer's job is to provide enough information about what's intended musically so that the performer can decide how to achieve the desired effect on a particular instrument. I suppose that each organ is built differently, so it would be nearly impossible to prepare for every performance situation. If the composer is an organist, I would put the dynamics exactly where the composer put them. If not an organist, maybe not, but only if there's something nonsensical (e.g., different dynamics within one manual, unless, of course, it's intended for a Wurlitzer theater organ...). In other words, unless you really understand the instrument and see something nonsensical, just engrave what's in the MS. Chances are good that it will be sufficient for any decent musician to understand what's desired. Remember that organists are accustomed to playing music with absolutely no dynamic marks in it and have no trouble whatsoever figuring out from the scores what dynamics are appropriate. -- David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
