Re: [Finale] What is the Finale strategy?

2018-04-19 Thread Chuck Israels 


> On Apr 19, 2018, at 5:18 PM, David H. Bailey  wrote:
> 
> On 4/19/2018 7:58 PM, Robert Patterson wrote:
>> n choose whichever instruments out of the total 
> original ensemble one wants to use in any particular "flow."  You simply 
> select the instruments from the original large ensemble and viola you 
> have just what you need in the new flow.

Unless, David, you happen to need a “voila”.

:) Chuck




> 
> David H. Bailey
> dhbaile...@comcast.net
> http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com
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Chuck Israels
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(360) 201-3434

8831 SE 12th Ave.
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Re: [Finale] What is the Finale strategy?

2018-04-19 Thread David H. Bailey 
On 4/19/2018 7:58 PM, Robert Patterson wrote:
> I don't think I understand Steve Parker's comment about "MT scores". I
> don't doubt that Finale requires stitching together thirty files, but I
> don't understand the requirement well enough to understand why.
> 
> My question about different layouts is, are they anything like linked
> parts? Because an improved interface for copying part layouts is definitely
> something that I've wanted and could actually be done by a plugin.
> 

I have only begun to scratch the surface of what Dorico can do, but I'll 
take a stab at answering this.  Then Steve Parker can leap in and tell 
me I'm crazy and fix up my explanation.

Musical theater has all those many different songs and dances and vamps 
and scene-change pieces, many with different instrumentation needs. 
Very hard to do in a single large file in Finale.

In Dorico, you create the total ensemble you want, assigning instruments 
(and sounds) to the "players" (Dorico is using some terms that are a bit 
strange in my opinion).  So if the maximum number of instruments needed 
is a total of 30 different instruments for the total show, you can 
create that ensemble to begin with.

Dorico has things called "flows" which are essentially different 
movements.  One can choose whichever instruments out of the total 
original ensemble one wants to use in any particular "flow."  You simply 
select the instruments from the original large ensemble and viola you 
have just what you need in the new flow.

The layout for each "flow" can be completely different from other 
"flows" in the same file, all done easily and without endangering the 
layouts for other flows.

Then, once all the flows are created, the part for each of the original 
"players" can be printed and it will show only the flows that player is 
used in.  I haven't worked with the linked parts yet, but from all I've 
read they are a dream compared to Finale's.

There are many videos about using Dorico on Youtube, so you could search 
there to see what's possible.

It really is very powerful software but with a vastly different approach 
to notation projects from either Finale or Sibelius.

-- 
*
David H. Bailey
dhbaile...@comcast.net
http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com
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Re: [Finale] What is the Finale strategy?

2018-04-19 Thread Robert Patterson 
I don't think I understand Steve Parker's comment about "MT scores". I
don't doubt that Finale requires stitching together thirty files, but I
don't understand the requirement well enough to understand why.

My question about different layouts is, are they anything like linked
parts? Because an improved interface for copying part layouts is definitely
something that I've wanted and could actually be done by a plugin.

On Thu, Apr 19, 2018 at 3:04 PM, Steve Parker  wrote:

> Dorico’s workflow is interesting.
> I can do an MT score for a production in one file, rather than thirty
> which need stitching together in Finale. Different cues can be assigned to
> different layouts. It’s simple to have alternatives in the same file and to
> pick and replace.
>
> > On 19 Apr 2018, at 20:48, David H. Bailey 
> wrote:
> >
> >> On 4/19/2018 2:20 PM, Craig Parmerlee wrote:
> >> [snip]
> >> Every year that Finale does nothing, it gets another year behind the
> >> state of the art.  It seems doubtful to me Finale will ever return to
> >> anywhere close to the state of the art.  Moreover, I don't see any
> >> indication the company even considers that a goal.
> > [snip]
> >
> > Finale is a mature program, as is Sibelius.  That doesn't mean it's
> > close to perfect, but it does mean that the company realizes that there
> > is a diminishing return on investment, since what it improves will be
> > meaningful (most of the time) to a decreasing number of users.
> >
> > And the marketplace for new users is very divided -- college students
> > can get by very adequately with MuseScore, as can many amateur
> > composers/arrangers who would have been the prime candidates for the
> > cheaper versions of Finale in the past.  And the marketplace currently
> > is very divided, what with Sibelius still going strong, the entry of
> > Dorico to compete for the high-end publishing quality notation software
> > market, along with Notion and Forte to take up the not-so-high-end part
> > of the marketplace.  These days I recommend MuseScore to all my students
> > who express an interest in notation software, since it is very powerful
> > and continues to get better and better.  Only if someone wants something
> > better than MuseScore to I suggest Finale and/or Sibelius.
> >
> > Personally I have switched to doing practically all my notation products
> > in Sibelius -- for my notational needs it does all that I need/want and
> > it does it more easily and quickly.
> >
> > The company isn't moving Finale forward very fast because it can't
> > recoup its investment.  Whereas with SmartMusic, and its
> > subscription-only business model, it sits on a cash cow.  As far as the
> > company is concerned, I'll bet they consider Finale necessary primarily
> > as a tool for people to create SmartMusic accompaniment files and it can
> > already do what it needs to for that without further investment in the
> > minutiae of avant-garde notation and without improving long-standing
> > bugs which will never get fixed.
> >
> > Heck, even if you create your own music and then create SmartMusic
> > accompaniment files, you still have to pay the subscription fee!  Smart
> > marketing, but something I don't have any interest in doing.  However,
> > for band directors and other music teachers in academic situations, it's
> > something that gives them objective data on which to assign grades to
> > students, and it takes very little effort on the band director or music
> > teacher's part.  And once the assignments have been created the teacher
> > no longer needs to schedule time to hear every student, and students
> > can't complain "Mr. So-and-So doesn't like me so he gave me a D, when
> > SuzyQ, who got an A, doesn't play any better than I do!"
> >
> > That's been the course of the company for the past several owners.
> >
> > I'm very sorry to read that Michael Johnson has left the company.  Is
> > there anybody from the "good old days" left?  I assume Michael Goode is
> > still there, but he is a recent addition.  Is there any "institutional
> > memory" left among the development team?
> >
> > --
> > *
> > David H. Bailey
> > dhbaile...@comcast.net
> > http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com
> > ___
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Re: [Finale] What is the Finale strategy?

2018-04-19 Thread Craig Parmerlee 
David, I think you have very accurately captured the situation with the 
text I excerpted below.  And if we go back to the commentary offered by 
the new CEO upon acquisition, many of us thought his comments were truly 
bizarre, as they seemed to describe music notation as a fitness coach 
would describe weight lifting. In retrospect, it seems he was talking 
mainly about SmartMusic and had very little interest in Finale per se.

As recently as 18 months ago, I thought Sibelius was on a similar dead 
end, so I was just waiting for Dorico to become mature enough for my 
needs.  The big missing piece for me was chord support, which came with 
1.2 (or was it 1.1?)  But I was intending to wait until release 2 to 
begin the commitment to the learning curve.

I have had a Sibelius license forever but never really learned the 
product.  The last time I seriously tried, there was no scroll view, and 
I just could not get past that.  Of course they have had scroll view for 
a long time now, but then it looked like development was dead, so I 
didn't want to invest time in a dead product.  But it appears to me that 
Finale has responded to Dorico by deciding there is no point competing, 
whereas Avid has responded to Dorico by making a real investment.  So 
now I have to decide which product I want to invest the learning curve 
time in. Money for the license isn't a big deal.  The big issue is the 
learning curve time, which is 100 times greater than the license money.

I have a small transcription project to do with 2 weeks to complete it.  
I could probably knock it out in 3 hours with Finale.  I'm starting the 
Dorico 30-day trial this weekend and will tackle this project while 
learning the Dorico basics.


On 4/19/2018 3:48 PM, David H. Bailey wrote:
> with SmartMusic, and its
> subscription-only business model, it sits on a cash cow.  As far as the
> company is concerned, I'll bet they consider Finale necessary primarily
> as a tool for people to create SmartMusic accompaniment files and it can
> already do what it needs to for that without further investment in the
> minutiae of avant-garde notation and without improving long-standing
> bugs which will never get fixed.
>
> ...However,
> for band directors and other music teachers in academic situations, it's
> something that gives them objective data on which to assign grades to
> students, and it takes very little effort on the band director or music
> teacher's part.  And once the assignments have been created the teacher
> no longer needs to schedule time to hear every student, and students
> can't complain "Mr. So-and-So doesn't like me so he gave me a D, when
> SuzyQ, who got an A, doesn't play any better than I do!"
>
> That's been the course of the company for the past several owners.


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Re: [Finale] What is the Finale strategy?

2018-04-19 Thread David H. Bailey 
On 4/19/2018 4:04 PM, Steve Parker wrote:
> Dorico’s workflow is interesting.
> I can do an MT score for a production in one file, rather than thirty which 
> need stitching together in Finale. Different cues can be assigned to 
> different layouts. It’s simple to have alternatives in the same file and to 
> pick and replace.
> 
[snip]

That's one thing about Dorico which I've yet to be able to wrap my head 
around -- admittedly I haven't spent the amount of time I should in 
order to come to terms with the new workflow paradigm that Dorico has 
embraced.

I remember buying Sibelius at version 2.1, back when I was a diehard 
Finale user, and finding Sibelius difficult to wrap my head around until 
verison 5 when I finally admitted to myself that I was simply being a 
fool and trying to use Sibelius as if it were some new version of 
Finale, which of course it's not.  Once I admitted that and approached 
Sibelius as if I were brand new to computer notation software and 
started with very tiny baby steps and gradually increased the size and 
complexity of  my projects, I became very fluent in using it to where 
it's my first choice for new projects.

I just have to make the time to do the same with Dorico -- I can see it 
has a lot of promise, especially for very large projects.  I just need 
to sit down with the manual and the program and spend a lot of time 
starting from the very beginning.

And especially practice leaving my Sibelius and Finale experience behind 
and not try to think of Dorico as modified versions of either program.


-- 
David H. Bailey
dhbai...@davidbaileymusicstudio.com
http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com
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Re: [Finale] What is the Finale strategy?

2018-04-19 Thread Steve Parker 
Dorico’s workflow is interesting. 
I can do an MT score for a production in one file, rather than thirty which 
need stitching together in Finale. Different cues can be assigned to different 
layouts. It’s simple to have alternatives in the same file and to pick and 
replace.  

> On 19 Apr 2018, at 20:48, David H. Bailey  wrote:
> 
>> On 4/19/2018 2:20 PM, Craig Parmerlee wrote:
>> [snip]
>> Every year that Finale does nothing, it gets another year behind the
>> state of the art.  It seems doubtful to me Finale will ever return to
>> anywhere close to the state of the art.  Moreover, I don't see any
>> indication the company even considers that a goal.
> [snip]
> 
> Finale is a mature program, as is Sibelius.  That doesn't mean it's 
> close to perfect, but it does mean that the company realizes that there 
> is a diminishing return on investment, since what it improves will be 
> meaningful (most of the time) to a decreasing number of users.
> 
> And the marketplace for new users is very divided -- college students 
> can get by very adequately with MuseScore, as can many amateur 
> composers/arrangers who would have been the prime candidates for the 
> cheaper versions of Finale in the past.  And the marketplace currently 
> is very divided, what with Sibelius still going strong, the entry of 
> Dorico to compete for the high-end publishing quality notation software 
> market, along with Notion and Forte to take up the not-so-high-end part 
> of the marketplace.  These days I recommend MuseScore to all my students 
> who express an interest in notation software, since it is very powerful 
> and continues to get better and better.  Only if someone wants something 
> better than MuseScore to I suggest Finale and/or Sibelius.
> 
> Personally I have switched to doing practically all my notation products 
> in Sibelius -- for my notational needs it does all that I need/want and 
> it does it more easily and quickly.
> 
> The company isn't moving Finale forward very fast because it can't 
> recoup its investment.  Whereas with SmartMusic, and its 
> subscription-only business model, it sits on a cash cow.  As far as the 
> company is concerned, I'll bet they consider Finale necessary primarily 
> as a tool for people to create SmartMusic accompaniment files and it can 
> already do what it needs to for that without further investment in the 
> minutiae of avant-garde notation and without improving long-standing 
> bugs which will never get fixed.
> 
> Heck, even if you create your own music and then create SmartMusic 
> accompaniment files, you still have to pay the subscription fee!  Smart 
> marketing, but something I don't have any interest in doing.  However, 
> for band directors and other music teachers in academic situations, it's 
> something that gives them objective data on which to assign grades to 
> students, and it takes very little effort on the band director or music 
> teacher's part.  And once the assignments have been created the teacher 
> no longer needs to schedule time to hear every student, and students 
> can't complain "Mr. So-and-So doesn't like me so he gave me a D, when 
> SuzyQ, who got an A, doesn't play any better than I do!"
> 
> That's been the course of the company for the past several owners.
> 
> I'm very sorry to read that Michael Johnson has left the company.  Is 
> there anybody from the "good old days" left?  I assume Michael Goode is 
> still there, but he is a recent addition.  Is there any "institutional 
> memory" left among the development team?
> 
> -- 
> *
> David H. Bailey
> dhbaile...@comcast.net
> http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com
> ___
> Finale mailing list
> Finale@shsu.edu
> https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
> 
> To unsubscribe from finale send a message to:
> finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu


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Re: [Finale] What is the Finale strategy?

2018-04-19 Thread David H. Bailey 
On 4/19/2018 2:20 PM, Craig Parmerlee wrote:
[snip]
> Every year that Finale does nothing, it gets another year behind the
> state of the art.  It seems doubtful to me Finale will ever return to
> anywhere close to the state of the art.  Moreover, I don't see any
> indication the company even considers that a goal.
[snip]

Finale is a mature program, as is Sibelius.  That doesn't mean it's 
close to perfect, but it does mean that the company realizes that there 
is a diminishing return on investment, since what it improves will be 
meaningful (most of the time) to a decreasing number of users.

And the marketplace for new users is very divided -- college students 
can get by very adequately with MuseScore, as can many amateur 
composers/arrangers who would have been the prime candidates for the 
cheaper versions of Finale in the past.  And the marketplace currently 
is very divided, what with Sibelius still going strong, the entry of 
Dorico to compete for the high-end publishing quality notation software 
market, along with Notion and Forte to take up the not-so-high-end part 
of the marketplace.  These days I recommend MuseScore to all my students 
who express an interest in notation software, since it is very powerful 
and continues to get better and better.  Only if someone wants something 
better than MuseScore to I suggest Finale and/or Sibelius.

Personally I have switched to doing practically all my notation products 
in Sibelius -- for my notational needs it does all that I need/want and 
it does it more easily and quickly.

The company isn't moving Finale forward very fast because it can't 
recoup its investment.  Whereas with SmartMusic, and its 
subscription-only business model, it sits on a cash cow.  As far as the 
company is concerned, I'll bet they consider Finale necessary primarily 
as a tool for people to create SmartMusic accompaniment files and it can 
already do what it needs to for that without further investment in the 
minutiae of avant-garde notation and without improving long-standing 
bugs which will never get fixed.

Heck, even if you create your own music and then create SmartMusic 
accompaniment files, you still have to pay the subscription fee!  Smart 
marketing, but something I don't have any interest in doing.  However, 
for band directors and other music teachers in academic situations, it's 
something that gives them objective data on which to assign grades to 
students, and it takes very little effort on the band director or music 
teacher's part.  And once the assignments have been created the teacher 
no longer needs to schedule time to hear every student, and students 
can't complain "Mr. So-and-So doesn't like me so he gave me a D, when 
SuzyQ, who got an A, doesn't play any better than I do!"

That's been the course of the company for the past several owners.

I'm very sorry to read that Michael Johnson has left the company.  Is 
there anybody from the "good old days" left?  I assume Michael Goode is 
still there, but he is a recent addition.  Is there any "institutional 
memory" left among the development team?

-- 
*
David H. Bailey
dhbaile...@comcast.net
http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com
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Re: [Finale] What is the Finale strategy?

2018-04-19 Thread Robert Patterson 
Leaving aside what happened with BIAB, how is Dorico more automatic than
Finale with respect to beams and ties? (I don't doubt it is. I'm just
curious how.) I tend to distrust a lot of automation, unless it can be
overridden on a case-by-case basis.

What I expect the company that owns Finale to do is to continue addressing
pain points. That's what I hope they'll do anyway. Address enough pain
points and I suppose it won't matter if it's on the vanguard. I'm not sure
I even know what "state of the art" means.

Are there notations Finale won't do that it should? Absolutely: multihandle
smart shapes, for example. And I believe Dorico *does* that, at least for
slurs. Finale should have added it years ago, and there is nothing
precluding them from adding them now. But that's not revolutionary change.
Is there a notation Finale won't do that requires revolutionary change? I'm
not sure. What might it be?


On Thu, Apr 19, 2018 at 1:20 PM, Craig Parmerlee 
wrote:

> I used BIAB harmonization a lot, especially to get a quick draft of an
> arrangement.  I usually re-harmonized manually for the final copy, but it
> was a very useful way to get something going quickly.
>
> Over time, this degraded.  Eventually it became very destructive, as
> whenever you would run the tool on a range of measures, it would mess up
> the beaming for other measures on the same instrument, even measures not in
> the selected range.  Because of this rather serious bug, it really isn't
> productive to keep a version of F2012 installed to be able to run the BIAB
> plug-in.
>
> And that bug illustrates a difference between a 1980s era program like
> Finale and a modern program like Dorico.  In Dorico, the beaming and ties
> are completely automatic, following the notation rules you establish.  If
> you move notes around in time, the music automatically re-casts itself to
> be notated correctly with regards to beams and ties.  Every year that
> Finale does nothing, it gets another year behind the state of the art.  It
> seems doubtful to me Finale will ever return to anywhere close to the state
> of the art.  Moreover, I don't see any indication the company even
> considers that a goal.
>
>
>
>
> On 4/19/2018 1:46 PM, Robert Patterson wrote:
>
>> Tempo tool and BIAB were significant features? Color me surprised. I'd be
>> interested to know if others found them to be significant. Personally I
>> never used BIAB even once, and the Tempo Tool only rarely and only up
>> until
>> Human Playback was a thing. But I admit I'm not that fussy about playback.
>> Obviously ymmv.
>>
>> FWIW: I recompiled JW Tempo for 64-bit macOS. It works just fine in
>> MacFin25. (Basically, the Tempo Tool was removed from the F25 U.I. but not
>> the underlying support for tempo changes.) It's a free download on my
>> website if you think it might be useful. I always found it to be more what
>> I wanted out of tempo changes than the Tempo Tool.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 19, 2018 at 12:33 PM, Craig Parmerlee 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Tempo tool.  BIAB harmonization.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 4/19/2018 9:10 AM, Robert Patterson wrote:
>>>
>>> Which functionality was lost v25? I've been on it so long I forgot.


>>> ---
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>>
>
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Re: [Finale] What is the Finale strategy?

2018-04-19 Thread Craig Parmerlee 
I used BIAB harmonization a lot, especially to get a quick draft of an 
arrangement.  I usually re-harmonized manually for the final copy, but 
it was a very useful way to get something going quickly.

Over time, this degraded.  Eventually it became very destructive, as 
whenever you would run the tool on a range of measures, it would mess up 
the beaming for other measures on the same instrument, even measures not 
in the selected range.  Because of this rather serious bug, it really 
isn't productive to keep a version of F2012 installed to be able to run 
the BIAB plug-in.

And that bug illustrates a difference between a 1980s era program like 
Finale and a modern program like Dorico.  In Dorico, the beaming and 
ties are completely automatic, following the notation rules you 
establish.  If you move notes around in time, the music automatically 
re-casts itself to be notated correctly with regards to beams and ties.  
Every year that Finale does nothing, it gets another year behind the 
state of the art.  It seems doubtful to me Finale will ever return to 
anywhere close to the state of the art.  Moreover, I don't see any 
indication the company even considers that a goal.



On 4/19/2018 1:46 PM, Robert Patterson wrote:
> Tempo tool and BIAB were significant features? Color me surprised. I'd be
> interested to know if others found them to be significant. Personally I
> never used BIAB even once, and the Tempo Tool only rarely and only up until
> Human Playback was a thing. But I admit I'm not that fussy about playback.
> Obviously ymmv.
>
> FWIW: I recompiled JW Tempo for 64-bit macOS. It works just fine in
> MacFin25. (Basically, the Tempo Tool was removed from the F25 U.I. but not
> the underlying support for tempo changes.) It's a free download on my
> website if you think it might be useful. I always found it to be more what
> I wanted out of tempo changes than the Tempo Tool.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 19, 2018 at 12:33 PM, Craig Parmerlee 
> wrote:
>
>> Tempo tool.  BIAB harmonization.
>>
>>
>> On 4/19/2018 9:10 AM, Robert Patterson wrote:
>>
>>> Which functionality was lost v25? I've been on it so long I forgot.
>>>
>>
>> ---
>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>
>>
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Re: [Finale] What is the Finale strategy?

2018-04-19 Thread Robert Patterson 
Tempo tool and BIAB were significant features? Color me surprised. I'd be
interested to know if others found them to be significant. Personally I
never used BIAB even once, and the Tempo Tool only rarely and only up until
Human Playback was a thing. But I admit I'm not that fussy about playback.
Obviously ymmv.

FWIW: I recompiled JW Tempo for 64-bit macOS. It works just fine in
MacFin25. (Basically, the Tempo Tool was removed from the F25 U.I. but not
the underlying support for tempo changes.) It's a free download on my
website if you think it might be useful. I always found it to be more what
I wanted out of tempo changes than the Tempo Tool.



On Thu, Apr 19, 2018 at 12:33 PM, Craig Parmerlee 
wrote:

> Tempo tool.  BIAB harmonization.
>
>
> On 4/19/2018 9:10 AM, Robert Patterson wrote:
>
>> Which functionality was lost v25? I've been on it so long I forgot.
>>
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>
>
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Re: [Finale] What is the Finale strategy?

2018-04-19 Thread Craig Parmerlee 
Tempo tool.  BIAB harmonization.


On 4/19/2018 9:10 AM, Robert Patterson wrote:
> Which functionality was lost v25? I've been on it so long I forgot.


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Re: [Finale] What is the Finale strategy?

2018-04-19 Thread Fiskum, Steve 
I work the same way. 

Steve

> On Apr 19, 2018, at 9:21 AM, Robert Patterson  
> wrote:
> 
> Perhaps because I only view one page at a time? I find having the others on
> screen distracting, and I prefer to zoom in to the page I'm working on to
> fill the screen. Therefore, I have basically never used multipage layout.
> 
>> On Thu, Apr 19, 2018 at 9:17 AM, Fiskum, Steve  wrote:
>> 
>> Hey Robert,
>> 
>> I would love to hear how you make that happen. Screen redraws take up too
>> much time when doing detailed layouts. I bought new computers thinking that
>> might be the issue...did not help. Turned on “Open in Low Resolution.” I am
>> usually doing orchestral or band projects when I see this degradation. I do
>> not see this when working on small octavos or small method book type
>> examples but even in those cases, if I compare it to FIN12...12 will always
>> redraw the the screen faster.
>> 
>> This was confirmed in my meeting with MM last Dec. No solution as of yet.
>> 
>> It appears to me that the screen is redrawing all of the pages in the
>> background (not just the one you are viewing) every time a move is made.
>> There was a version (maybe 97) that had this same problem on the initial
>> release.
>> 
>> Steve
>> 
>>> On Apr 19, 2018, at 8:55 AM, Robert Patterson <
>> rob...@robertgpatterson.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Wow. I have the opposite experience with FIn25. It's much faster than
>> Fin12
>>> on Mac (at least the way I use it).
>>> 
>>> On Thu, Apr 19, 2018 at 8:26 AM, Fiskum, Steve 
>> wrote:
>>> 
 Now that Michael Johnson is no longer with the company (recent news)
>> it’s
 going to be hard to figure out where they will go with the program. A
>> big
 loss for all of us old timers.
 
 My biggest issue with 25 is speed. It’s painfully slow when compared to
 FIN12.
 
 Steve Fiskum
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Re: [Finale] What is the Finale strategy?

2018-04-19 Thread Robert Patterson 
Perhaps because I only view one page at a time? I find having the others on
screen distracting, and I prefer to zoom in to the page I'm working on to
fill the screen. Therefore, I have basically never used multipage layout.

On Thu, Apr 19, 2018 at 9:17 AM, Fiskum, Steve  wrote:

> Hey Robert,
>
> I would love to hear how you make that happen. Screen redraws take up too
> much time when doing detailed layouts. I bought new computers thinking that
> might be the issue...did not help. Turned on “Open in Low Resolution.” I am
> usually doing orchestral or band projects when I see this degradation. I do
> not see this when working on small octavos or small method book type
> examples but even in those cases, if I compare it to FIN12...12 will always
> redraw the the screen faster.
>
> This was confirmed in my meeting with MM last Dec. No solution as of yet.
>
> It appears to me that the screen is redrawing all of the pages in the
> background (not just the one you are viewing) every time a move is made.
> There was a version (maybe 97) that had this same problem on the initial
> release.
>
> Steve
>
> > On Apr 19, 2018, at 8:55 AM, Robert Patterson <
> rob...@robertgpatterson.com> wrote:
> >
> > Wow. I have the opposite experience with FIn25. It's much faster than
> Fin12
> > on Mac (at least the way I use it).
> >
> > On Thu, Apr 19, 2018 at 8:26 AM, Fiskum, Steve 
> wrote:
> >
> >> Now that Michael Johnson is no longer with the company (recent news)
> it’s
> >> going to be hard to figure out where they will go with the program. A
> big
> >> loss for all of us old timers.
> >>
> >> My biggest issue with 25 is speed. It’s painfully slow when compared to
> >> FIN12.
> >>
> >> Steve Fiskum
> >> ___
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> >> https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
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> >> finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu
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Re: [Finale] What is the Finale strategy?

2018-04-19 Thread Fiskum, Steve 
Hey Robert,

I would love to hear how you make that happen. Screen redraws take up too much 
time when doing detailed layouts. I bought new computers thinking that might be 
the issue...did not help. Turned on “Open in Low Resolution.” I am usually 
doing orchestral or band projects when I see this degradation. I do not see 
this when working on small octavos or small method book type examples but even 
in those cases, if I compare it to FIN12...12 will always redraw the the screen 
faster. 

This was confirmed in my meeting with MM last Dec. No solution as of yet. 

It appears to me that the screen is redrawing all of the pages in the 
background (not just the one you are viewing) every time a move is made. There 
was a version (maybe 97) that had this same problem on the initial release.

Steve 

> On Apr 19, 2018, at 8:55 AM, Robert Patterson  
> wrote:
> 
> Wow. I have the opposite experience with FIn25. It's much faster than Fin12
> on Mac (at least the way I use it).
> 
> On Thu, Apr 19, 2018 at 8:26 AM, Fiskum, Steve  wrote:
> 
>> Now that Michael Johnson is no longer with the company (recent news) it’s
>> going to be hard to figure out where they will go with the program. A big
>> loss for all of us old timers.
>> 
>> My biggest issue with 25 is speed. It’s painfully slow when compared to
>> FIN12.
>> 
>> Steve Fiskum
>> ___
>> Finale mailing list
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>> https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
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>> finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu
>> 
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Re: [Finale] What is the Finale strategy?

2018-04-19 Thread Robert Patterson 
Wow. I have the opposite experience with FIn25. It's much faster than Fin12
on Mac (at least the way I use it).

On Thu, Apr 19, 2018 at 8:26 AM, Fiskum, Steve  wrote:

> Now that Michael Johnson is no longer with the company (recent news) it’s
> going to be hard to figure out where they will go with the program. A big
> loss for all of us old timers.
>
> My biggest issue with 25 is speed. It’s painfully slow when compared to
> FIN12.
>
> Steve Fiskum
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Re: [Finale] What is the Finale strategy?

2018-04-19 Thread Fiskum, Steve 
Now that Michael Johnson is no longer with the company (recent news) it’s going 
to be hard to figure out where they will go with the program. A big loss for 
all of us old timers.

My biggest issue with 25 is speed. It’s painfully slow when compared to FIN12. 

Steve Fiskum
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Re: [Finale] What is the Finale strategy?

2018-04-19 Thread Simon Troup 
Thank you for this link Robert. You can sort by 'planned' and I hope that
those things are carried through.

Since the forums were closed I've lost a lot of interest in Finale. I use
it all the time, but I no longer correspond regularly with people about it
or champion it like I used to. I'd miss it if it disappeared, and would
have to retrain to use something else, but frankly, I'm amazed and
delighted that I've been able to use it without many problems for the last
10 years or more, throughout which it seem to have lived a rather fragile
existence. Since about mid 2005 I consider every year a bonus :)

Simon


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On 19 April 2018 at 14:10, Robert Patterson 
wrote:

> Which functionality was lost v25? I've been on it so long I forgot. (The
> biggest loss of functionality for me came in Fin09, when they dropped
> note-attached expressions.) The main thing I remember in F25 is the screwed
> up Mac Print Dialog. But I've learned to live with it. (Heck, I almost
> don't even use it any more now that someone on this list turned me on to
> Export Pages.)
>
> I don't expect we will see revolutionary changes to Finale anyt time soon.
> But sfaik they are continuing to add incremental improvements. You can get
> a sense of the kinds of issues they have planned to fix over at the Feature
> Request Forum
>  200449177-Finale-Feature-Requests?sort_by=recent_activity>.
> (Look for items marked "Planned".) Others (marked "Answered") usually
> indicate sympathy and awareness of the issue. I can only some of hope those
> will change to "Planned" at a future date.
>
> Over time, evolutionary change can seem revolutionary. I am pretty
> astounded at the difference between F25 and any pre-F12 version. And even
> the difference from F12 is noticeable.
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 19, 2018 at 7:42 AM, Don Hart  wrote:
>
> > Like watching paint dry.
> >
> > On Wed, Apr 18, 2018 at 5:59 PM Christopher Smith <
> > christopher.sm...@videotron.ca> wrote:
> >
> > > Hahaha! Yes, of course!
> > >
> > > Christopher
> > >
> > > > On Apr 18, 2018, at 6:49 PM, SN jef chippewa <
> > > shirl...@newmusicnotation.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > i find these tools quite useful, and they are entirely genre- and
> > > platform-independent: they work just as awesomely for the newest of the
> > new
> > > music notation as for basically all traditional approaches to music
> > > notation, western or other.
> > > > https://youtu.be/mci6NVBJbvo
> > > >
> > > >> All that said, I’m always happy to be pointed to a technique or a
> tool
> > > I might have missed that solves problems like these and others.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > >
> > > > neueweise -- fonts for new music and traditional notation
> > > > http://newmusicnotation.com/fonts
> > > >
> > > > shirling & neueweise | http://newmusicnotation.com
> > > > new music notation + translation + arts management
> > > > [FB] http://facebook.com/neueweise | [TW]
> http://twitter.com/neueweise
> > > >
> > > > ___
> > > > Finale mailing list
> > > > Finale@shsu.edu
> > > > https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
> > > >
> > > > To unsubscribe from finale send a message to:
> > > > finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu
> > >
> > >
> > > ___
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> > >
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Re: [Finale] What is the Finale strategy?

2018-04-19 Thread Skjalg Bjørstad 
I really miss the mirror tool. I guess I’m the only one, but a major part of my 
workflow was based on it. 

Skjalg - for anledningen på nett med iPhone.

> 19. apr. 2018 kl. 15:10 skrev Robert Patterson :
> 
> Which functionality was lost v25? I've been on it so long I forgot. (The
> biggest loss of functionality for me came in Fin09, when they dropped
> note-attached expressions.) The main thing I remember in F25 is the screwed
> up Mac Print Dialog. But I've learned to live with it. (Heck, I almost
> don't even use it any more now that someone on this list turned me on to
> Export Pages.)
> 
> I don't expect we will see revolutionary changes to Finale anyt time soon.
> But sfaik they are continuing to add incremental improvements. You can get
> a sense of the kinds of issues they have planned to fix over at the Feature
> Request Forum
> .
> (Look for items marked "Planned".) Others (marked "Answered") usually
> indicate sympathy and awareness of the issue. I can only some of hope those
> will change to "Planned" at a future date.
> 
> Over time, evolutionary change can seem revolutionary. I am pretty
> astounded at the difference between F25 and any pre-F12 version. And even
> the difference from F12 is noticeable.
> 
> 
>> On Thu, Apr 19, 2018 at 7:42 AM, Don Hart  wrote:
>> 
>> Like watching paint dry.
>> 
>> On Wed, Apr 18, 2018 at 5:59 PM Christopher Smith <
>> christopher.sm...@videotron.ca> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hahaha! Yes, of course!
>>> 
>>> Christopher
>>> 
 On Apr 18, 2018, at 6:49 PM, SN jef chippewa <
>>> shirl...@newmusicnotation.com> wrote:
 
 
 i find these tools quite useful, and they are entirely genre- and
>>> platform-independent: they work just as awesomely for the newest of the
>> new
>>> music notation as for basically all traditional approaches to music
>>> notation, western or other.
 https://youtu.be/mci6NVBJbvo
 
> All that said, I’m always happy to be pointed to a technique or a tool
>>> I might have missed that solves problems like these and others.
 
 --
 
 neueweise -- fonts for new music and traditional notation
 http://newmusicnotation.com/fonts
 
 shirling & neueweise | http://newmusicnotation.com
 new music notation + translation + arts management
 [FB] http://facebook.com/neueweise | [TW] http://twitter.com/neueweise
 
 ___
 Finale mailing list
 Finale@shsu.edu
 https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
 
 To unsubscribe from finale send a message to:
 finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu
>>> 
>>> 
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Re: [Finale] What is the Finale strategy?

2018-04-19 Thread Robert Patterson 
Which functionality was lost v25? I've been on it so long I forgot. (The
biggest loss of functionality for me came in Fin09, when they dropped
note-attached expressions.) The main thing I remember in F25 is the screwed
up Mac Print Dialog. But I've learned to live with it. (Heck, I almost
don't even use it any more now that someone on this list turned me on to
Export Pages.)

I don't expect we will see revolutionary changes to Finale anyt time soon.
But sfaik they are continuing to add incremental improvements. You can get
a sense of the kinds of issues they have planned to fix over at the Feature
Request Forum
.
(Look for items marked "Planned".) Others (marked "Answered") usually
indicate sympathy and awareness of the issue. I can only some of hope those
will change to "Planned" at a future date.

Over time, evolutionary change can seem revolutionary. I am pretty
astounded at the difference between F25 and any pre-F12 version. And even
the difference from F12 is noticeable.


On Thu, Apr 19, 2018 at 7:42 AM, Don Hart  wrote:

> Like watching paint dry.
>
> On Wed, Apr 18, 2018 at 5:59 PM Christopher Smith <
> christopher.sm...@videotron.ca> wrote:
>
> > Hahaha! Yes, of course!
> >
> > Christopher
> >
> > > On Apr 18, 2018, at 6:49 PM, SN jef chippewa <
> > shirl...@newmusicnotation.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > i find these tools quite useful, and they are entirely genre- and
> > platform-independent: they work just as awesomely for the newest of the
> new
> > music notation as for basically all traditional approaches to music
> > notation, western or other.
> > > https://youtu.be/mci6NVBJbvo
> > >
> > >> All that said, I’m always happy to be pointed to a technique or a tool
> > I might have missed that solves problems like these and others.
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > neueweise -- fonts for new music and traditional notation
> > > http://newmusicnotation.com/fonts
> > >
> > > shirling & neueweise | http://newmusicnotation.com
> > > new music notation + translation + arts management
> > > [FB] http://facebook.com/neueweise | [TW] http://twitter.com/neueweise
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Finale mailing list
> > > Finale@shsu.edu
> > > https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe from finale send a message to:
> > > finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu
> >
> >
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Re: [Finale] What is the Finale strategy?

2018-04-19 Thread Don Hart 
Like watching paint dry.

On Wed, Apr 18, 2018 at 5:59 PM Christopher Smith <
christopher.sm...@videotron.ca> wrote:

> Hahaha! Yes, of course!
>
> Christopher
>
> > On Apr 18, 2018, at 6:49 PM, SN jef chippewa <
> shirl...@newmusicnotation.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > i find these tools quite useful, and they are entirely genre- and
> platform-independent: they work just as awesomely for the newest of the new
> music notation as for basically all traditional approaches to music
> notation, western or other.
> > https://youtu.be/mci6NVBJbvo
> >
> >> All that said, I’m always happy to be pointed to a technique or a tool
> I might have missed that solves problems like these and others.
> >
> > --
> >
> > neueweise -- fonts for new music and traditional notation
> > http://newmusicnotation.com/fonts
> >
> > shirling & neueweise | http://newmusicnotation.com
> > new music notation + translation + arts management
> > [FB] http://facebook.com/neueweise | [TW] http://twitter.com/neueweise
> >
> > ___
> > Finale mailing list
> > Finale@shsu.edu
> > https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
> >
> > To unsubscribe from finale send a message to:
> > finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu
>
>
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