Re: [Finale] Crashes and AutoSave

[Kenneth Moore]

How I try to put belt and braces on my self-supporting trousers.

Autosave was on by default when I installed F2014 on Windows 8.1 (just 
before Christmas 2014 on a new Lenovo laptop) and has never given me any 
trouble on several different versions of FInale since the mid 90s; it 
saved me some minutes of work two days ago when a security program did a 
forced reboot of Windows without asking.  I try to save with Control S 
frequently.  My back-up folder is on one of two flash drives that I 
alternate, so that if Finale wrecks all three working files, I have a 
copy from the previous session.  When I am not using the computer, both 
flash drives are on strings around my neck, so that my portfolio is 
saved if the house burns down with the laptop in it.

Where computers are concerned, my hopes are higher than my expectations.

Ken Moore
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Re: [Finale] Crashes and AutoSave

[Barbara Touburg]

On 18-2-2015 8:27, John Roberts wrote:
> I had started the thread on AutoSave and I just got a new one. The
> message: "The file  could not be Autosaved. This file doesn't
> exist." That's the file I am just working on, and had done a Save As to
> this name.
>
> I tracked this down to an illegal filename character (slash), from an
> old system of naming files I was still using. Finale will open, work
> with, and save files with a slash in the name, but not autosave.

That was exactly the message I got. I remember now.

But - but - my file was called "van_delden.mus". There's no illegal 
character there.

?
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Re: [Finale] Crashes and AutoSave

[Christopher Smith]

Son of a…
That's a major, data-erasing bug, and MakeMusic should know of it ASAP. I hope 
you have opened a tech support case detailing what you told us.

Thanks for tracking this down, and sorry it cost you data.

Christopher


On Wed Feb 18, at WednesdayFeb 18 2:27 AM, John Roberts wrote:

> I had started the thread on AutoSave and I just got a new one. The 
> message: "The file  could not be Autosaved. This file doesn't 
> exist." That's the file I am just working on, and had done a Save As to 
> this name.
> 
> I tracked this down to an illegal filename character (slash), from an 
> old system of naming files I was still using. Finale will open, work 
> with, and save files with a slash in the name, but not autosave.
> 
> I should have said before, I'm on an iMac, OSX Yosemite, Finale 2014d.
> 
> The autosave file is deleted when the parent file is closed (as Chuck 
> says, this seems to be new in 2014). I tried to simulate a crash by 
> force-quitting Finale. When I reopened Finale the active file opened 
> when I started the program, with changes that I had not manually saved 
> but were in the asv file. This would seem to be how it's designed to work.
> 
> I got the same result forcing a crash by manually shutting off the 
> computer - the file opened as it had been autosaved. If I had crashed 
> after doing a number of changes I didn't want to keep I would go find 
> the .bak backup file. This seems to be a good reason to check the Make 
> Backups When Saving Files prefs option.
> 
> So autosave is now a fully automatic function. If a file has been 
> autosaved, that's what opens after a crash; you can't open an asv file 
> as such. If you close your original, the asv goes too. If you 
> inadvertently close it, too bad.
> 
> And so to bed...
> 
> JR
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Re: [Finale] Crashes and AutoSave

[John Roberts]

I had started the thread on AutoSave and I just got a new one. The 
message: "The file  could not be Autosaved. This file doesn't 
exist." That's the file I am just working on, and had done a Save As to 
this name.

I tracked this down to an illegal filename character (slash), from an 
old system of naming files I was still using. Finale will open, work 
with, and save files with a slash in the name, but not autosave.

I should have said before, I'm on an iMac, OSX Yosemite, Finale 2014d.

The autosave file is deleted when the parent file is closed (as Chuck 
says, this seems to be new in 2014). I tried to simulate a crash by 
force-quitting Finale. When I reopened Finale the active file opened 
when I started the program, with changes that I had not manually saved 
but were in the asv file. This would seem to be how it's designed to work.

I got the same result forcing a crash by manually shutting off the 
computer - the file opened as it had been autosaved. If I had crashed 
after doing a number of changes I didn't want to keep I would go find 
the .bak backup file. This seems to be a good reason to check the Make 
Backups When Saving Files prefs option.

So autosave is now a fully automatic function. If a file has been 
autosaved, that's what opens after a crash; you can't open an asv file 
as such. If you close your original, the asv goes too. If you 
inadvertently close it, too bad.

And so to bed...

JR
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Re: [Finale] Crashes and AutoSave

[Chuck Israels]

That was a thought I had too - that the file might be directed to save 
somewhere I had not intentionally directed it, but this is not the problem I am 
having.  I have checked it multiple times.

The strange thing is that I can get it to work by restarting the computer and 
setting up AutoSave again.  Then it works for a while.  Again, I haven’t 
figured out what stops it from working.  And another thing is that when I move 
to another piece, the AutoSave files from the first piece are gone.   (In 2012 
they used to remain in the folder until I deleted them.)  Deeply mysterious to 
me.

Chuck

> On Feb 17, 2015, at 4:47 PM, Robert Patterson  
> wrote:
> 
> I suggest making sure the folder in Program Options is the one you think it
> is, and that autosave is enabled. I remember having to fiddle with this in
> Fin14.
> 
> On Tue, Feb 17, 2015 at 6:36 PM, John Roberts  wrote:
> 
>> Thank you all for the input. It has seemed to me that AutoSave works
>> differently in 2014 than it did before. When I've needed it the folder
>> is empty. I'm usually pretty good with save-as-you-go, but every once in
>> a while I space out, and that's when trouble seems to happen!
>> JR
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 2/17/15 4:27 PM, Chuck Israels wrote:
>>> Hi John,
>>> 
>>> I have not been able to get AutoSave to work correctly either.  It
>> doesn’t cause crashes, but something in my system (I’m guessing either
>> SmartScroll - an app that allows incremental horizontal scrolling with
>> arrow keys, or the software for my Logitech mouse) i interfering with it.
>> I can get it to work when I restart everything and set it up, but it soon
>> (haven’t figured out when) just stops working.  It has not caused any
>> crashes and I am finding 2014d to be pretty stable.  Nevertheless, Command
>> S is becoming a habit.
>>> 
>>> Chuck
>>> 
>>> 
 On Feb 17, 2015, at 11:38 AM, John Roberts  wrote:
 
 Am I right that if* Finale 2014 crashes, as well as losing the file
 you're working on the AutoSave file disappears as well?
 
 *when
 
 This seems to happen to me and I'm wondering if that's the case or
 whether I might not have set AutoSave up correctly.
 
 ___
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 Finale@shsu.edu
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>>> 
>>> Chuck Israels
>>> cisra...@comcast.net 
>>> (360) 201-3434
>>> 
>>> 8831 SE 12th Ave.
>>> Portland Or 97202
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
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>> 
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cisra...@comcast.net 
(360) 201-3434

8831 SE 12th Ave.
Portland Or 97202



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Re: [Finale] Crashes and AutoSave

[Robert Patterson]

I suggest making sure the folder in Program Options is the one you think it
is, and that autosave is enabled. I remember having to fiddle with this in
Fin14.

On Tue, Feb 17, 2015 at 6:36 PM, John Roberts  wrote:

> Thank you all for the input. It has seemed to me that AutoSave works
> differently in 2014 than it did before. When I've needed it the folder
> is empty. I'm usually pretty good with save-as-you-go, but every once in
> a while I space out, and that's when trouble seems to happen!
> JR
>
>
>
> On 2/17/15 4:27 PM, Chuck Israels wrote:
> > Hi John,
> >
> > I have not been able to get AutoSave to work correctly either.  It
> doesn’t cause crashes, but something in my system (I’m guessing either
> SmartScroll - an app that allows incremental horizontal scrolling with
> arrow keys, or the software for my Logitech mouse) i interfering with it.
> I can get it to work when I restart everything and set it up, but it soon
> (haven’t figured out when) just stops working.  It has not caused any
> crashes and I am finding 2014d to be pretty stable.  Nevertheless, Command
> S is becoming a habit.
> >
> > Chuck
> >
> >
> >> On Feb 17, 2015, at 11:38 AM, John Roberts  wrote:
> >>
> >> Am I right that if* Finale 2014 crashes, as well as losing the file
> >> you're working on the AutoSave file disappears as well?
> >>
> >> *when
> >>
> >> This seems to happen to me and I'm wondering if that's the case or
> >> whether I might not have set AutoSave up correctly.
> >>
> >> ___
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> >> https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
> >>
> >> To unsubscribe from finale send a message to:
> >> finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu
> >
> > Chuck Israels
> > cisra...@comcast.net 
> > (360) 201-3434
> >
> > 8831 SE 12th Ave.
> > Portland Or 97202
> >
> > 
> >
> > ___
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>
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Re: [Finale] Crashes and AutoSave

[Peter Taylor]

Completely agree.

I remember having problems with AutoSave and backups way back in version 2, 
when the system would lock up while it was saving, and I think we had 
virtually this same discussion soon after I joined the list about 15 years 
ago, probably regarding Fin3.7 or 2001, and that's why I never use it.  I 
might be wrong but ISTR the problem is connected with temporary files not 
being deleted.  As said before, the best thing is to get into the habit of 
saving manually.

Peter


From: "Chuck Israels" 
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 9:27 PM
Subject: Re: [Finale] Crashes and AutoSave


> Hi John,
>
> I have not been able to get AutoSave to work correctly either.  It doesn’t 
> cause crashes, but something in my system (I’m guessing either 
> SmartScroll - an app that allows incremental horizontal scrolling with 
> arrow keys, or the software for my Logitech mouse) i interfering with it. 
> I can get it to work when I restart everything and set it up, but it soon 
> (haven’t figured out when) just stops working.  It has not caused any 
> crashes and I am finding 2014d to be pretty stable.  Nevertheless, Command 
> S is becoming a habit.
>
> Chuck
>
>
>> On Feb 17, 2015, at 11:38 AM, John Roberts  wrote:
>>
>> Am I right that if* Finale 2014 crashes, as well as losing the file
>> you're working on the AutoSave file disappears as well?
>>
>> *when
>>
>> This seems to happen to me and I'm wondering if that's the case or
>> whether I might not have set AutoSave up correctly.


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Re: [Finale] Crashes and AutoSave

[John Roberts]

Thank you all for the input. It has seemed to me that AutoSave works 
differently in 2014 than it did before. When I've needed it the folder 
is empty. I'm usually pretty good with save-as-you-go, but every once in 
a while I space out, and that's when trouble seems to happen!
JR



On 2/17/15 4:27 PM, Chuck Israels wrote:
> Hi John,
>
> I have not been able to get AutoSave to work correctly either.  It doesn’t 
> cause crashes, but something in my system (I’m guessing either SmartScroll - 
> an app that allows incremental horizontal scrolling with arrow keys, or the 
> software for my Logitech mouse) i interfering with it.  I can get it to work 
> when I restart everything and set it up, but it soon (haven’t figured out 
> when) just stops working.  It has not caused any crashes and I am finding 
> 2014d to be pretty stable.  Nevertheless, Command S is becoming a habit.
>
> Chuck
>
>
>> On Feb 17, 2015, at 11:38 AM, John Roberts  wrote:
>>
>> Am I right that if* Finale 2014 crashes, as well as losing the file
>> you're working on the AutoSave file disappears as well?
>>
>> *when
>>
>> This seems to happen to me and I'm wondering if that's the case or
>> whether I might not have set AutoSave up correctly.
>>
>> ___
>> Finale mailing list
>> Finale@shsu.edu
>> https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
>>
>> To unsubscribe from finale send a message to:
>> finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu
>
> Chuck Israels
> cisra...@comcast.net 
> (360) 201-3434
>
> 8831 SE 12th Ave.
> Portland Or 97202
>
> 
>
> ___
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>
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Re: [Finale] Crashes and AutoSave

[Chuck Israels]

Hi John,

I have not been able to get AutoSave to work correctly either.  It doesn’t 
cause crashes, but something in my system (I’m guessing either SmartScroll - an 
app that allows incremental horizontal scrolling with arrow keys, or the 
software for my Logitech mouse) i interfering with it.  I can get it to work 
when I restart everything and set it up, but it soon (haven’t figured out when) 
just stops working.  It has not caused any crashes and I am finding 2014d to be 
pretty stable.  Nevertheless, Command S is becoming a habit.

Chuck


> On Feb 17, 2015, at 11:38 AM, John Roberts  wrote:
> 
> Am I right that if* Finale 2014 crashes, as well as losing the file 
> you're working on the AutoSave file disappears as well?
> 
> *when
> 
> This seems to happen to me and I'm wondering if that's the case or 
> whether I might not have set AutoSave up correctly.
> 
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> 
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Chuck Israels
cisra...@comcast.net 
(360) 201-3434

8831 SE 12th Ave.
Portland Or 97202



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Re: [Finale] Crashes and AutoSave

[j...@thomastudios.com]

I have never, ever invoked any kind of Auto-Save in any Mac application.  Cmd-S 
is so ingrained in my grey matter and workflow that anything automated just 
gets in my way.  Almost like those asinine thingies insurance companies want to 
you plug into the ODB port on our cars.  But I digress, big time.

I agree with Dennis and do something similar only he does it far more 
frequently than I do.  In thinking about his, I may go so far as to do it with 
greater frequency.  But if I have encountered any file issues, and I have, at 
the very most I have only lost about 15 minutes of my time.  I am much more 
comfortable with that than any Auto-Save can muster.

J D Thomas
ThomaStudios

> On Feb 17, 2015, at 11:54 AM, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz  
> wrote:
> 
> I save *incremental numbered versions* at every point where recreating all my
> work is going to be more trouble than "Save as...".
> 
> Finale files are relatively small compared with disk drive space. A recent
> complex client score had numbers [Filename]0001 through [Filename]1487 -- and
> took less than 2GB to hold them all. They were saved between 1 and 6 minutes
> apart. Incremental saves give me a revert point if I make a serious error and
> also protect against losing work due to crashes, cats, or stupidity.


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Re: [Finale] Crashes and AutoSave

[GERALD BERG]

Can't say about autosave with the update (before yes) but FINMAC 2014d (is it?) 
still displays aberrant behavior (including the occasional crash) with inertia 
scrolling enabled.  I slowed it down and no crash so far but that is not a 
final assessment. GJB
  From: Dennis Bathory-Kitsz 
 To: finale@shsu.edu 
 Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 2:54 PM
 Subject: Re: [Finale] Crashes and AutoSave
   
On Tue, February 17, 2015 2:38 pm, John Roberts wrote:
> Am I right that if* Finale 2014 crashes, as well as losing the file
> you're working on the AutoSave file disappears as well?

I've never had this kind of crash, but no matter. It could happen.

I save *incremental numbered versions* at every point where recreating all my
work is going to be more trouble than "Save as...".

Finale files are relatively small compared with disk drive space. A recent
complex client score had numbers [Filename]0001 through [Filename]1487 -- and
took less than 2GB to hold them all. They were saved between 1 and 6 minutes
apart. Incremental saves give me a revert point if I make a serious error and
also protect against losing work due to crashes, cats, or stupidity.

I believe Mac requires some mousing, but on Windows my fingers are trained for
those 18 keystrokes: ALT, F, A, END, LEFT ARRO (x5), BCKSPC (x4), 4 new
digits, ENTER. Incremental file saved, work continues safely.

Dennis




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Re: [Finale] Crashes and AutoSave

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

On Tue, February 17, 2015 2:38 pm, John Roberts wrote:
> Am I right that if* Finale 2014 crashes, as well as losing the file
> you're working on the AutoSave file disappears as well?

I've never had this kind of crash, but no matter. It could happen.

I save *incremental numbered versions* at every point where recreating all my
work is going to be more trouble than "Save as...".

Finale files are relatively small compared with disk drive space. A recent
complex client score had numbers [Filename]0001 through [Filename]1487 -- and
took less than 2GB to hold them all. They were saved between 1 and 6 minutes
apart. Incremental saves give me a revert point if I make a serious error and
also protect against losing work due to crashes, cats, or stupidity.

I believe Mac requires some mousing, but on Windows my fingers are trained for
those 18 keystrokes: ALT, F, A, END, LEFT ARRO (x5), BCKSPC (x4), 4 new
digits, ENTER. Incremental file saved, work continues safely.

Dennis


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Re: [Finale] Crashes and AutoSave

[Robert Patterson]

I have not had that problem (MacFin14). I have the autosave interval at 10
mins and it frequently saves me. I do direct it to a different directory
than the default.

On Tue, Feb 17, 2015 at 1:38 PM, John Roberts  wrote:

> Am I right that if* Finale 2014 crashes, as well as losing the file
> you're working on the AutoSave file disappears as well?
>
> *when
>
> This seems to happen to me and I'm wondering if that's the case or
> whether I might not have set AutoSave up correctly.
>
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Re: [Finale] Crashes and AutoSave

[Barbara Touburg]

On 17-2-2015 20:38, John Roberts wrote:
> Am I right that if* Finale 2014 crashes, as well as losing the file
> you're working on the AutoSave file disappears as well?
>
> *when
>
> This seems to happen to me and I'm wondering if that's the case or
> whether I might not have set AutoSave up correctly.

Now that you mention it, Finale crashed a few times when working on this 
file. Every time the file wasn't damaged after the crash. You might be 
right that the autosave might be related to the vanished music, but I've 
made it a habit (years ago already) to ctrl-s every few minutes.
By the way, I'm using FinWin97 on Windows 7.
I really don't understand what went wrong!
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[Finale] Crashes and AutoSave

[John Roberts]

Am I right that if* Finale 2014 crashes, as well as losing the file 
you're working on the AutoSave file disappears as well?

*when

This seems to happen to me and I'm wondering if that's the case or 
whether I might not have set AutoSave up correctly.

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