Re: [Finale] OT - Recorder
On Mon, May 12, 2008 2:56 am, dc wrote: I sent this first message on 7 May. And today, 12 May, almost 5 days later (!), I'm told this message was rejected: finale@shsu.edu: host smtp.shsu.edu[158.135.1.173] said: 451 4.7.1 Greylisting in action, please come back in 00:10:00 (in reply to RCPT TO command) I'm curious: why does it take so long to reject a message? Greylisting is a temporary rejection used to validate an address, and is usually only done once. (The header has code 451, Message temporarily deferred) The sending mail host is supposed to retry; if it doesn't, the message is assumed to be spam because hit-and-run spamming machines don't retry. A number of mail servers don't respect retry requests. Retries are usually done by mail servers in a few minutes, an hour, a few hours, a day and a few days, after which they give up. It might just be a blip in the greylisting mechanism, too. It depends on what the rest of the header says; David Fenton might also help out here. Dennis ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT - Recorder
On 07.05.2008 A-NO-NE Music wrote: You do not wish to use limiter. The result is terrible. If you record in 24-bit, you can set the input level at -10db peak, and you still get full resolution. I personally set at -16db. Just a habit. The mic pres will still have more noise... Johannes -- http://www.musikmanufaktur.com http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT - Recorder
On 07.05.2008 Darcy James Argue wrote: And I'm sorry, but the idea that there is no way something this small could sound great is absurd. It's the microphones used that make the most difference -- the recorder itself makes comparatively little difference. This is definitely true to a certain extent, but on the other hand a lot depends on the mic pres in the unit, certainly if you don't want to carry your own mic pres around with you. Years ago I purchased one of the very first portable DAT recorders (an AIWA) unit which promised me to make CD-Quality recordings. Well, it is certainly true that the unit could make CD-Quality recordings, but only if you fed it digital signals. The mic pre it included was terrible, and it certainly made me learn quickly that a digital recorder is not the definitive answer to recording quality. Meanwhile I run my own CD label, and I record using a pair of Schoeps mics. I use a digital desk made for a very short time by Fostex, a professional producer gave me that tip. Fostex only sold it for a very short time, mainly because it only has four mic ins. But the quality of the pres is really amazing. I also sometimes use the two mic pres in my MOTU unit. I am not in the market any more for a portable recorder, as I take the computer with me most of the time anyway. However, one of the newer portable MOTU units really appeals to me. Personally I do no longer believe in portable recordings with the microphone placed anywhere. I find anything recorded with less than good pro mics unsatisfying. When I want to have a recording of a concert I set up the Schoeps on a high stand, feed them into the MOTU (the mic pres are pretty good) and run that into my iBook. Not as portable as a zoom with a clip on microphone, but many many many times higher quality. Johannes -- http://www.musikmanufaktur.com http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT - Recorder
That's kind of what I wanted to know. Thanks, Dean On May 7, 2008, at 11:53 PM, dc wrote: David W. Fenton écrit: I've been wanting something like this to use to record rehearsals of my viol consort so we can use the recordings to make ourselves hear our own playing better, and I'm wondering if I should just wait a couple of years for the next generation of these players? I can't afford it now, anyway! :) I sent a message the other day but never saw it appear, saying I recently got a Zoom (on eBay) to record our rehearsals (and even our concerts), and am very satisfied with it. I'm not saying the sound is professional quality, but it is largely good enough for our purpose, even with the built-in microphones. Dennis ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Dean M. Estabrook http://deanestabrook.googlepages.com/home When I am working on a problem, I never think about beauty. But when I have finished, if the solution is not beautiful, I know it is wrong. R. Buckminster Fuller ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT - Recorder
I have Zoom H2, and it sounds really bad. I gave it to my wife for recording her classes. My bass player has Edirol R-09, which sounds much better. I didn't consider MicroTrack since it didn't meet my needs. I probably won't consider Yamaha either since I don't agree with their design philosophy in general. The issue here is that there is no way something this small could sound great. The question is which one fakes better than others. Usually Sony wins on faking. Sony's design philosophy is not accurate or honest but conformable. I am considering PCM-50 for myself right now. Yes, Sony brakes easily, but that is a trade off I am willing to take for better sounding. TASCAM DR-1 is another one I am interested in, but I need to audition it first. I do like TASCAM but they also have manufacturing issues. My DA78-HR, which I only used for 4 jobs over 6-7 years now dead, and the service center told me they can't fix it(!!). -- - Hiro Hiroaki Honshuku, A-NO-NE Music, Boston, MA http://a-no-ne.com http://anonemusic.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT - Recorder
What microphones are you using? My experience is that all of these units sound very similar when using the same mics at the same quality settings. And I'm sorry, but the idea that there is no way something this small could sound great is absurd. It's the microphones used that make the most difference -- the recorder itself makes comparatively little difference. Cheers, - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY On 7 May 2008, at 10:30 AM, A-NO-NE Music wrote: I have Zoom H2, and it sounds really bad. I gave it to my wife for recording her classes. My bass player has Edirol R-09, which sounds much better. I didn't consider MicroTrack since it didn't meet my needs. I probably won't consider Yamaha either since I don't agree with their design philosophy in general. The issue here is that there is no way something this small could sound great. The question is which one fakes better than others. Usually Sony wins on faking. Sony's design philosophy is not accurate or honest but conformable. I am considering PCM-50 for myself right now. Yes, Sony brakes easily, but that is a trade off I am willing to take for better sounding. TASCAM DR-1 is another one I am interested in, but I need to audition it first. I do like TASCAM but they also have manufacturing issues. My DA78-HR, which I only used for 4 jobs over 6-7 years now dead, and the service center told me they can't fix it(!!). -- - Hiro Hiroaki Honshuku, A-NO-NE Music, Boston, MA http://a-no-ne.com http://anonemusic.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT - Recorder
Darcy James Argue / 08.5.7 / 11:37 AM wrote: And I'm sorry, but the idea that there is no way something this small could sound great is absurd. It's the microphones used that make the most difference -- the recorder itself makes comparatively little difference. While I agree microphone takes a great part of the quality, the other part is A/D/A as well as pre. Every designer has their own design. Also there is no way to use decent microphone if the device has no balanced input (except Zoom H4). Oh, and with these small devices, you can't even fit the industrial standard A/D/A chips such as Asahi-Kasei. Again, Sony takes great pride on designing A/D/A for human ear comfort rather than accuracy. -- - Hiro Hiroaki Honshuku, A-NO-NE Music, Boston, MA http://a-no-ne.com http://anonemusic.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT - Recorder
On Wed, May 7, 2008 12:26 pm, A-NO-NE Music wrote: Also there is no way to use decent microphone if the device has no balanced input (except Zoom H4). The Microtrack is balanced (TRS). Dennis ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT - Recorder
Dennis Bathory-Kitsz / 08.5.7 / 0:36 PM wrote: The Microtrack is balanced (TRS). Sorry I missed that. But I think carrying decent microphones with these devices kinda defeats the purpose. Even with balanced input, none of these devices provides phantom, meaning you have to add external pre if you want to use decent microphones. I want something that fits in my bag and record without setting stuff up, or I just carry my regular recording rig. My smallest rig, Metric Halo ULN2+DSP with MBP will be easier to carry and faster to setup compared to above. Also note that these device's A/D/A are designed to work with the onboard microphones, compensating character of limited onboard microphone, while a step-up devices such as TASCAM HD-P2 are designed to work with external microphones. -- - Hiro Hiroaki Honshuku, A-NO-NE Music, Boston, MA http://a-no-ne.com http://anonemusic.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT - Recorder
Has anyone used the ZOOM H2 and found it satisfactory? Dean On May 7, 2008, at 7:30 AM, A-NO-NE Music wrote: I have Zoom H2, and it sounds really bad. I gave it to my wife for recording her classes. My bass player has Edirol R-09, which sounds much better. I didn't consider MicroTrack since it didn't meet my needs. I probably won't consider Yamaha either since I don't agree with their design philosophy in general. The issue here is that there is no way something this small could sound great. The question is which one fakes better than others. Usually Sony wins on faking. Sony's design philosophy is not accurate or honest but conformable. I am considering PCM-50 for myself right now. Yes, Sony brakes easily, but that is a trade off I am willing to take for better sounding. TASCAM DR-1 is another one I am interested in, but I need to audition it first. I do like TASCAM but they also have manufacturing issues. My DA78-HR, which I only used for 4 jobs over 6-7 years now dead, and the service center told me they can't fix it(!!). -- - Hiro Hiroaki Honshuku, A-NO-NE Music, Boston, MA http://a-no-ne.com http://anonemusic.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Dean M. Estabrook http://deanestabrook.googlepages.com/home When I am working on a problem, I never think about beauty. But when I have finished, if the solution is not beautiful, I know it is wrong. R. Buckminster Fuller ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT - Recorder
On Wed, May 7, 2008 12:52 pm, A-NO-NE Music wrote: none of these devices provides phantom The Microtrack has phantom. Gotta read those specs. :) Dennis ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT - Recorder
I'm chiming in with a vote for a Marantz flash recorder. I have one that I've been using for 4 years now, and it is a workhorse. Phantom power, records to compact flash. I can get 3+ hours of recording at 44.1 uncompressed. I use a Rode NT4 mic. They probably have better units now.and smaller. This unit is like the size of a hardback book. On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 9:52 AM, A-NO-NE Music [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dennis Bathory-Kitsz / 08.5.7 / 0:36 PM wrote: The Microtrack is balanced (TRS). Sorry I missed that. But I think carrying decent microphones with these devices kinda defeats the purpose. Even with balanced input, none of these devices provides phantom, meaning you have to add external pre if you want to use decent microphones. I want something that fits in my bag and record without setting stuff up, or I just carry my regular recording rig. My smallest rig, Metric Halo ULN2+DSP with MBP will be easier to carry and faster to setup compared to above. Also note that these device's A/D/A are designed to work with the onboard microphones, compensating character of limited onboard microphone, while a step-up devices such as TASCAM HD-P2 are designed to work with external microphones. -- - Hiro Hiroaki Honshuku, A-NO-NE Music, Boston, MA http://a-no-ne.com http://anonemusic.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT - Recorder
Dean M. Estabrook / 08.5.7 / 0:54 PM wrote: Has anyone used the ZOOM H2 and found it satisfactory? Again, my comparison between my Zoom H2 and my bass player's Edirol R-09 was done on our weekly gig. We made the setup as similar possible, and placed at the same location. The difference was rather huge, not to mention I was very disappointed since I waited 3 month for my pre-sale ordered H2. -- - Hiro Hiroaki Honshuku, A-NO-NE Music, Boston, MA http://a-no-ne.com http://anonemusic.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT - Recorder
Hi Dennis, While I've been generally happy with the results from my Edirol R-1 digital recorder plus Core Sound binaural capsule mics, if I did have, say, $1000 to spend on a new portable digital recorder plus mics (which I don't, but let's say I did), I am curious what you would recommend. Cheers, - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY On 7 May 2008, at 1:02 PM, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote: On Wed, May 7, 2008 12:52 pm, A-NO-NE Music wrote: none of these devices provides phantom The Microtrack has phantom. Gotta read those specs. :) Dennis ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT - Recorder
1/4? And how long can it record with it's batteries when using Phantom power? I know my little Marantz box can do over 3 hours driving a stereo mic. If I had a bigger compact flash cartridge, like a 4 gig one, I might be able to go 6 hours. I should try it. On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 10:02 AM, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, May 7, 2008 12:52 pm, A-NO-NE Music wrote: none of these devices provides phantom The Microtrack has phantom. Gotta read those specs. :) Dennis ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT - Recorder
On Wed, May 7, 2008 1:06 pm, Eric Dannewitz wrote: I'm chiming in with a vote for a Marantz flash recorder. I have one that I've been using for 4 years now, and it is a workhorse. Phantom power, records to compact flash. I can get 3+ hours of recording at 44.1 uncompressed. I use a Rode NT4 mic. They probably have better units now.and smaller. This unit is like the size of a hardback book. I was just about to buy it when the Microtrack came out -- and by then it had better audio specs. The Marantz got relatively weak audio ratings, and there was even a company that specialized in gutting and replacing the ADC in those Marantz units. But I had to wait because the Microtrack orders were way backed up at the beginning. Because I was leaving for Europe, I got an M-Audio Mobile Pre to go with my laptop instead. That's pretty shoddy, though, and its drivers are touchy. Dennis ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT - Recorder
Dennis Bathory-Kitsz / 08.5.7 / 1:02 PM wrote: The Microtrack has phantom. Gotta read those specs. :) Shoot! I am keep embarrassing myself, huh. The reason why I didn't include Microtrack for my comparison on my purchase was, aside from I didn't want to carry external microphones, I remember either or both card slot and battery slot didn't got me feel right when I tried. I just read the spec. 48v phantom. Nice. My apologies! -- - Hiro Hiroaki Honshuku, A-NO-NE Music, Boston, MA http://a-no-ne.com http://anonemusic.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT - Recorder
On Wed, May 7, 2008 1:13 pm, Darcy James Argue wrote: While I've been generally happy with the results from my Edirol R-1 digital recorder plus Core Sound binaural capsule mics, if I did have, say, $1000 to spend on a new portable digital recorder plus mics (which I don't, but let's say I did), I am curious what you would recommend. Well, you could use that $1,000 to put a down payment on a Nagra LB. :) We (meaning Kalvos Damian, our erstwhile radio show) have the Core Sound mics, which are very nice; they were a gift to the show. I don't have $1,000 to spend either, so I haven't investigated the middle ground of recorders. If I had to do it over, I'd go with the Microtrack again, mostly because of the balanced mic inputs with phantom power, its 96KHz 24bit recording, removable flashcard, and user interface (which I find convenient with its very different buttons for different functions). But I think we're about the head into a next generation scenario where, if too much time isn't spent on thin, we'll get an improved set of analog-digital conversion specs. So my advice would be, unless you're dissatisfied with the Edirol, to wait a year. Dennis ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT - Recorder
On Wed, May 7, 2008 1:18 pm, Eric Dannewitz wrote: 1/4? And how long can it record with it's batteries when using Phantom power? I don't know, since I keep battery packs in my pocket. Whenever the little icon goes down to half, I plug them in. The spec rates mine at 3-4 hours and the Microtrack II at 4-5 hours, but I never trust those because in the dark I use the backlight often, and in the field it is often cold (I do soundwalks at below zero). The battery doesn't stand up very well in the cold. Dennis ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT - Recorder
By the way, I recorded this from row 14 left with the Microtrack on my knee, using its own T-mic: http://maltedmedia.com/people/bathory/music/waam/fanfare-heat-premiere.mp3 It's the Vermont Youth Orchestra playing my Fanfare:Heat this past Sunday. They'll send a pro recording, but I just had to have an instant-gratification document. :) Dennis ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT - Recorder
On 7-May-08, at 1:18 PM, Eric Dannewitz wrote: 1/4? And how long can it record with it's batteries when using Phantom power? I know my little Marantz box can do over 3 hours driving a stereo mic. If I had a bigger compact flash cartridge, like a 4 gig one, I might be able to go 6 hours. I should try it. Yup, 1/4, just like some of the cheaper mixers out there. XLR to 1/4 TRS adapters are cheap and don't take up room on the chassis, which is what they were trying to avoid, I imagine. I hadn't noticed a drain on the battery when the phantom is on, which agrees with what I know about phantom power; there is hardly any current drain, just the bias that drives the mic. This is why those mics with batteries in them last so long between battery changes. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT - Recorder
Darcy James Argue wrote: What microphones are you using? My experience is that all of these units sound very similar when using the same mics at the same quality settings. And I'm sorry, but the idea that there is no way something this small could sound great is absurd. It's the microphones used that make the most difference -- the recorder itself makes comparatively little difference. I use the Sony ECM-MS907 stereo mic and get terrific results with my iRiver mp3 player which is no larger than a pack of cigarettes. -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT - Recorder
I'm interested in this recorder discussion, too, though there's something that I haven't heard discussed. I have a small Olympic recorder. Nice machine for catching my son's voice, etc, but hits a wall when a full orchestra plays Tchaikovsky. Clips the loud parts. With all of the recorders mentioned can you set input levels? Or do they have built-in compressors (is that what they're called? Where it boosts quiet spots and limits loud parts -- in effect, leveling off the music) or will you really hear the full dynamic range of what you are recording? Andrew Levin ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT - Recorder
On 7-May-08, at 12:52 PM, A-NO-NE Music wrote: Dennis Bathory-Kitsz / 08.5.7 / 0:36 PM wrote: The Microtrack is balanced (TRS). Sorry I missed that. But I think carrying decent microphones with these devices kinda defeats the purpose. Even with balanced input, none of these devices provides phantom MicroTrack has phantom. C. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT - Recorder
On 7-May-08, at 12:26 PM, A-NO-NE Music wrote: Darcy James Argue / 08.5.7 / 11:37 AM wrote: And I'm sorry, but the idea that there is no way something this small could sound great is absurd. It's the microphones used that make the most difference -- the recorder itself makes comparatively little difference. While I agree microphone takes a great part of the quality, the other part is A/D/A as well as pre. Every designer has their own design. Also there is no way to use decent microphone if the device has no balanced input (except Zoom H4). Oh, and with these small devices, you can't even fit the industrial standard A/D/A chips such as Asahi- Kasei. Again, Sony takes great pride on designing A/D/A for human ear comfort rather than accuracy. The MicroTrack has balanced TRS inputs. I can't vouch for the AD converters compared with other digital devices, but the sound quality is WAY better than any portable recorder I have ever used, with the possible exception of a portable DAT. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT - Recorder
Andrew Levin / 08.5.7 / 2:32 PM wrote: I have a small Olympic recorder. Nice machine for catching my son's voice, etc, but hits a wall when a full orchestra plays Tchaikovsky. Clips the loud parts. With all of the recorders mentioned can you set input levels? Or do they have built-in compressors (is that what they're called? Where it boosts quiet spots and limits loud parts -- in effect, leveling off the music) or will you really hear the full dynamic range of what you are recording? You do not wish to use limiter. The result is terrible. If you record in 24-bit, you can set the input level at -10db peak, and you still get full resolution. I personally set at -16db. Just a habit. As far as I know, all of these devices gives you input level control. -- - Hiro Hiroaki Honshuku, A-NO-NE Music, Boston, MA http://a-no-ne.com http://anonemusic.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT - Recorder
I'd say that's pretty impressive. Thanks for sharing. Dean On May 7, 2008, at 10:45 AM, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote: By the way, I recorded this from row 14 left with the Microtrack on my knee, using its own T-mic: http://maltedmedia.com/people/bathory/music/waam/fanfare-heat- premiere.mp3 It's the Vermont Youth Orchestra playing my Fanfare:Heat this past Sunday. They'll send a pro recording, but I just had to have an instant-gratification document. :) Dennis ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Dean M. Estabrook http://deanestabrook.googlepages.com/home When I am working on a problem, I never think about beauty. But when I have finished, if the solution is not beautiful, I know it is wrong. R. Buckminster Fuller ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT - Recorder
Most recorders have an analog -20 db input level switch for recording loud sources. My Edirol R-1 does not have an analog switch, and requires a somewhat convoluted method of reducing the input level digitally, which is one of the two things I find most frustrating about it. (The other is that there is no battery level meter -- it just starts flashing when the batteries are about to die, which is Not. Helpful.) Cheers, - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY On 7 May 2008, at 2:32 PM, Andrew Levin wrote: I'm interested in this recorder discussion, too, though there's something that I haven't heard discussed. I have a small Olympic recorder. Nice machine for catching my son's voice, etc, but hits a wall when a full orchestra plays Tchaikovsky. Clips the loud parts. With all of the recorders mentioned can you set input levels? Or do they have built-in compressors (is that what they're called? Where it boosts quiet spots and limits loud parts -- in effect, leveling off the music) or will you really hear the full dynamic range of what you are recording? Andrew Levin ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT - Recorder
On 7 May 2008 at 13:11, A-NO-NE Music wrote: Dean M. Estabrook / 08.5.7 / 0:54 PM wrote: Has anyone used the ZOOM H2 and found it satisfactory? Again, my comparison between my Zoom H2 and my bass player's Edirol R-09 was done on our weekly gig. We made the setup as similar possible, and placed at the same location. The difference was rather huge, not to mention I was very disappointed since I waited 3 month for my pre-sale ordered H2. I read the reviews at Amazon and someone did the same head-to-head comparison of those two models, and it was basically a wash. According to that review, the R-09 is more expensive, too. The Zoom H2 seemed to me to get the best reviews. The Microtrack II got nearly as good, while the previous model of the Microtrack got *terrible* reviews. I've been wanting something like this to use to record rehearsals of my viol consort so we can use the recordings to make ourselves hear our own playing better, and I'm wondering if I should just wait a couple of years for the next generation of these players? I can't afford it now, anyway! :) -- David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT - Recorder
On Mon, May 5, 2008 11:49 pm, Dean M. Estabrook wrote: Before I spend hours googling this topic, I thought I'd ask for your opinions on the matter. My wife, a music educator, has a need for a digital recorder (and maybe playback machine) for use in her job. I think she's thinking in the $1k range (since CA got some special one time funding for such things). Any favorites, pitfalls, etc.? Her main need is to record rehearsals onto a disc and either play it back then and there, or bring it home for study and prep. $1K? Buy two and a lot of flash cards. :) Ease of use and quality, Zoom H2 or Microtrack 2496. Both are flash card recorders. I have the latter; a friend has the former. The Zoom's microphones are built-in, the Microtrack comes with a little T mic. You can use external microphones (including phantom power) for concert recordings, or feed them with a mixer. Use the audio output or transfer files right to the computer for editing. They are small (size of a cigarette pack if anybody remembers what those are). Durable, too, at least the Microtrack, which fell (along with me) into a river. It worked fine when it dried out, whereas I didn't (broke some ribs). These are the days for high-quality recording at low prices! Street price on the Zoom H2 is $200, Microtrack $300. Dennis ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT - Recorder
Dean M. Estabrook wrote: Before I spend hours googling this topic, I thought I'd ask for your opinions on the matter. My wife, a music educator, has a need for a digital recorder (and maybe playback machine) for use in her job. I think she's thinking in the $1k range (since CA got some special one time funding for such things). Any favorites, pitfalls, etc.? Her main need is to record rehearsals onto a disc and either play it back then and there, or bring it home for study and prep. Thanks in advance for the ubiquitous wisdom found on this list. To play it back then and there it doesn't have to be recorded onto a disc (by that I assume you mean onto a CD which can be removed from the recorder) -- all that's needed is some sort of amplification to play the recorded material back through. Bringing it home for study and prep can be done without a removable CD, also. You might consider the ZOOM handheld recorder with built in stereo mics. It costs around $300 and doesn't use removable CDs for its recording medium. When you bring it home, you can simply attach it to your computer with a USB cable and transfer the files to your computer and then either listen to them there or burn them to CD. One limitation of digital recorders which record to CD is the time limitation. CDs are like tape cassettes (only longer) -- if your rehearsal is longer than an hour, you need to replace the disc and resume recording. Using a recorder such as the Zoom, you can record the entire rehearsal in a single file, so there won't be any possibility of it stopping in the middle of a piece. I use my iRiver mp3 player, the H40, which has a 40GB hard disk inside. It can record as either MP3 (recording time limited by the hard disk space only) or as WAV (recording time limited to 75 minutes - same as a CD). The bitrate for the MP3 can be set at 320kbps which is essentially the same as CD quality so the quality of the resulting file is superb. Unfortunately iRiver doesn't market this model anymore and I have no clue about the quality of their current models. I do have a friend who has a Zoom which is a couple of years old and it's terrific. Spending $1k when the same (or better) results could be gotten for $300 seems silly to me. -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT - Recorder
Hi David many thanks for the good info. We have seen the ZOOM in a catalog, and were intrigued ... however, I had no idea as to its quality, so your words are good to hear. I'm on a MAC, if I connected the ZOOM via the USB cable, would the file automatically place in iTunes, or just appear on the desktop from whence it can then be transferred? If not, would any particular software be needed on the computer to handle said file(s)? Sounds as if the ZOOM would be a good way to go ... but I'll also check out the currant iRiver player. Many thanks, Dean On May 6, 2008, at 3:25 AM, dhbailey wrote: Dean M. Estabrook wrote: Before I spend hours googling this topic, I thought I'd ask for your opinions on the matter. My wife, a music educator, has a need for a digital recorder (and maybe playback machine) for use in her job. I think she's thinking in the $1k range (since CA got some special one time funding for such things). Any favorites, pitfalls, etc.? Her main need is to record rehearsals onto a disc and either play it back then and there, or bring it home for study and prep. Thanks in advance for the ubiquitous wisdom found on this list. To play it back then and there it doesn't have to be recorded onto a disc (by that I assume you mean onto a CD which can be removed from the recorder) -- all that's needed is some sort of amplification to play the recorded material back through. Bringing it home for study and prep can be done without a removable CD, also. You might consider the ZOOM handheld recorder with built in stereo mics. It costs around $300 and doesn't use removable CDs for its recording medium. When you bring it home, you can simply attach it to your computer with a USB cable and transfer the files to your computer and then either listen to them there or burn them to CD. One limitation of digital recorders which record to CD is the time limitation. CDs are like tape cassettes (only longer) -- if your rehearsal is longer than an hour, you need to replace the disc and resume recording. Using a recorder such as the Zoom, you can record the entire rehearsal in a single file, so there won't be any possibility of it stopping in the middle of a piece. I use my iRiver mp3 player, the H40, which has a 40GB hard disk inside. It can record as either MP3 (recording time limited by the hard disk space only) or as WAV (recording time limited to 75 minutes - same as a CD). The bitrate for the MP3 can be set at 320kbps which is essentially the same as CD quality so the quality of the resulting file is superb. Unfortunately iRiver doesn't market this model anymore and I have no clue about the quality of their current models. I do have a friend who has a Zoom which is a couple of years old and it's terrific. Spending $1k when the same (or better) results could be gotten for $300 seems silly to me. -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Dean M. Estabrook http://deanestabrook.googlepages.com/home When I am working on a problem, I never think about beauty. But when I have finished, if the solution is not beautiful, I know it is wrong. R. Buckminster Fuller ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT - Recorder
Survived a fall into a river, you Say? That's much more impressive than my cell phone which fell into our toilet (no, don't ask me how), and was toast. Again, I appreciate the good info. See, I knew this list wouldn't let me down. Thanks, Dean On May 6, 2008, at 2:49 AM, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote: On Mon, May 5, 2008 11:49 pm, Dean M. Estabrook wrote: Before I spend hours googling this topic, I thought I'd ask for your opinions on the matter. My wife, a music educator, has a need for a digital recorder (and maybe playback machine) for use in her job. I think she's thinking in the $1k range (since CA got some special one time funding for such things). Any favorites, pitfalls, etc.? Her main need is to record rehearsals onto a disc and either play it back then and there, or bring it home for study and prep. $1K? Buy two and a lot of flash cards. :) Ease of use and quality, Zoom H2 or Microtrack 2496. Both are flash card recorders. I have the latter; a friend has the former. The Zoom's microphones are built-in, the Microtrack comes with a little T mic. You can use external microphones (including phantom power) for concert recordings, or feed them with a mixer. Use the audio output or transfer files right to the computer for editing. They are small (size of a cigarette pack if anybody remembers what those are). Durable, too, at least the Microtrack, which fell (along with me) into a river. It worked fine when it dried out, whereas I didn't (broke some ribs). These are the days for high-quality recording at low prices! Street price on the Zoom H2 is $200, Microtrack $300. Dennis ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Dean M. Estabrook http://deanestabrook.googlepages.com/home When I am working on a problem, I never think about beauty. But when I have finished, if the solution is not beautiful, I know it is wrong. R. Buckminster Fuller ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT - Recorder
Dean M. Estabrook wrote: Hi David many thanks for the good info. We have seen the ZOOM in a catalog, and were intrigued ... however, I had no idea as to its quality, so your words are good to hear. I'm on a MAC, if I connected the ZOOM via the USB cable, would the file automatically place in iTunes, or just appear on the desktop from whence it can then be transferred? If not, would any particular software be needed on the computer to handle said file(s)? Sounds as if the ZOOM would be a good way to go ... but I'll also check out the currant iRiver player. [snip] I don't know how automatic the downloading process is for Macs. I know that I manually download the file(s) from my iRiver (I hate the automated processes because I want to place the files in very specific and different locations each time I download the recordings. As for checking out the current iRiver machines, don't do so on my account because they have changed quite a lot since I bought mine and I can't vouch anything for their recording abilities these days. -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
RE: [Finale] OT - Recorder
On Mon, May 5, 2008 11:49 pm, Dean M. Estabrook wrote: Before I spend hours googling this topic, I thought I'd ask for your opinions on the matter. My wife, a music educator, has a need for a digital recorder (and maybe playback machine) for use in her job. I think she's thinking in the $1k range (since CA got some special one time funding for such things). Any favorites, pitfalls, etc.? Her main need is to record rehearsals onto a disc and either play it back then and there, or bring it home for study and prep. $1K? Buy two and a lot of flash cards. :) Ease of use and quality, Zoom H2 or Microtrack 2496. Both are flash card recorders. I have the latter; a friend has the former. The Zoom's microphones are built-in, the Microtrack comes with a little T mic. You can use external microphones (including phantom power) for concert recordings, or feed them with a mixer. Use the audio output or transfer files right to the computer for editing. They are small (size of a cigarette pack if anybody remembers what those are). Durable, too, at least the Microtrack, which fell (along with me) into a river. It worked fine when it dried out, whereas I didn't (broke some ribs). These are the days for high-quality recording at low prices! Street price on the Zoom H2 is $200, Microtrack $300. Dennis I'm also about to buy a portable digital recorder. I was leaning toward the MicroTrack II (updated version of the MicroTrack 2496) when I found that Yamaha is about to release a revolutionary new recorder, the Pocketrak 2G. It comes with a user-replaceable, rechargeable Ni-MH battery (the no memory kind) that can power the unit up to 19 hours of continuous recording. It can also run on a single AAA alkaline battery up to 25 hours. It has 2 GB of memory built-in, line/mic inputs, headphone out, a speaker, and USB 2.0 connectivity. Believe it or not, the unit weighs only 1.7 oz, including battery. Talk about portable. It's supposed to be shipping any day now. Street price is $350. Lee Actor Composer-in-Residence and Assistant Conductor, Palo Alto Philharmonic http://www.leeactor.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT - Recorder
On 6-May-08, at 11:25 AM, Dean M. Estabrook wrote: Hi David many thanks for the good info. We have seen the ZOOM in a catalog, and were intrigued ... however, I had no idea as to its quality, so your words are good to hear. I'm on a MAC, if I connected the ZOOM via the USB cable, would the file automatically place in iTunes, or just appear on the desktop from whence it can then be transferred? If not, would any particular software be needed on the computer to handle said file(s)? If you have recorded in .wav or .mp3 format, you connect the player to teh computer with a USB cable and it shows up on the desktop like a drive. You can then drag the files anywhere you like on your computer and do what you want with them. If you double click one of these files after you have copied it on your Mac, then the default app is iTunes (the default settings are to copy it to the iTunes folder. You can delete it from desktop aftewards if you want). You can also control-click (or right click if you have a two-button mouse) the file to open it with QuickTime or anything else you like. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT - Recorder
On Tue, May 6, 2008 8:03 am, Christopher Smith wrote: A couple of things about these two models. The Microtrack takes a few seconds to boot up and when you hit Record the start is not immediate, so if you are trying for dictaphone-like immediacy you will be disappointed. The boot time is long, but the record is immediate. It just doesn't look like it's immediate. You can even start recording before the boot sequence officially finishes. (This is the original Microtrack.) The R-1 has replaceable batteries (can get expensive) while the Microtrack has built in batteries that are NOT replaceable except by a technician. That means if you can't plug in to AC, then you are out of luck if you run low on power while out in the field. Having been in the field (and in the water) with my Microtrack: there are plenty of USB battery packs to run it while it charges. The APC is about $9 and takes 4 AAAs. The JavoEdge is about $12 and takes 4 AAs and doubles as a powerful flashlight. I have one of each; they swap out without a glitch while recording. The battery is replaceable with minimum tech skills. M-Audio sells them for $12 plus shipping; I have 3 extras. The unit comes apart fairly easily and the battery swaps out with two standup solder points. Occasionally my wife has trouble getting her Mac laptop to recognize the Microtrack by USB, though I never seem to have any trouble. If my PC is getting cranky about having too many USB and network drives it's a pain. But since one of those drives is a blank flashcard slot, I pop it out of the Microtrack. I bought a large flash card (one!) when I got the thing, and have never come close to filling it up, though I transfer each session to computer as I go. Since I record concerts at 96KHz 32bit float, it does chew through the 4GB cards pretty quickly. Dennis ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT - Recorder
At 8:49 PM -0700 5/5/08, Dean M. Estabrook wrote: Before I spend hours googling this topic, I thought I'd ask for your opinions on the matter. My wife, a music educator, has a need for a digital recorder (and maybe playback machine) for use in her job. I think she's thinking in the $1k range (since CA got some special one time funding for such things). Any favorites, pitfalls, etc.? Her main need is to record rehearsals onto a disc and either play it back then and there, or bring it home for study and prep. I've seen exactly such a machine in use, but don't know the brand. And I don't know what the recording medium is--it might well not be a disc (by which I assume that you mean a CD). In fact it probably isn't, since the unit is much too small to hold a CD. Contact Ed Schwartz [EMAIL PROTECTED], our Community Band Conductor and an IT specialist, for additional information. John -- John R. Howell, Assoc. Prof. of Music Virginia Tech Department of Music College of Liberal Arts Human Sciences Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A. 24061-0240 Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034 (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT - Recorder
Thank you sir ... Dean On May 6, 2008, at 8:29 AM, John Howell wrote: At 8:49 PM -0700 5/5/08, Dean M. Estabrook wrote: Before I spend hours googling this topic, I thought I'd ask for your opinions on the matter. My wife, a music educator, has a need for a digital recorder (and maybe playback machine) for use in her job. I think she's thinking in the $1k range (since CA got some special one time funding for such things). Any favorites, pitfalls, etc.? Her main need is to record rehearsals onto a disc and either play it back then and there, or bring it home for study and prep. I've seen exactly such a machine in use, but don't know the brand. And I don't know what the recording medium is--it might well not be a disc (by which I assume that you mean a CD). In fact it probably isn't, since the unit is much too small to hold a CD. Contact Ed Schwartz [EMAIL PROTECTED], our Community Band Conductor and an IT specialist, for additional information. John -- John R. Howell, Assoc. Prof. of Music Virginia Tech Department of Music College of Liberal Arts Human Sciences Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A. 24061-0240 Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034 (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Dean M. Estabrook http://deanestabrook.googlepages.com/home When I am working on a problem, I never think about beauty. But when I have finished, if the solution is not beautiful, I know it is wrong. R. Buckminster Fuller ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT - Recorder
On May 6, 2008, at 10:44 AM, Lee Actor wrote: Yeah, Lee the Pocketrak 2G is in the catalog I'm using ... as you say, it lists at $350. Says the thing is only .5 in thick .. I'm wondering how much sound the built-in speaker can put out. I'm checkin' it out. Dean I'm also about to buy a portable digital recorder. I was leaning toward the MicroTrack II (updated version of the MicroTrack 2496) when I found that Yamaha is about to release a revolutionary new recorder, the Pocketrak 2G. It comes with a user-replaceable, rechargeable Ni-MH battery (the no memory kind) that can power the unit up to 19 hours of continuous recording. It can also run on a single AAA alkaline battery up to 25 hours. It has 2 GB of memory built-in, line/mic inputs, headphone out, a speaker, and USB 2.0 connectivity. Believe it or not, the unit weighs only 1.7 oz, including battery. Talk about portable. It's supposed to be shipping any day now. Street price is $350. Lee Actor Composer-in-Residence and Assistant Conductor, Palo Alto Philharmonic http://www.leeactor.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Dean M. Estabrook http://deanestabrook.googlepages.com/home When I am working on a problem, I never think about beauty. But when I have finished, if the solution is not beautiful, I know it is wrong. R. Buckminster Fuller ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT - Recorder
On Tue, May 6, 2008 6:29 pm, Dean M. Estabrook wrote: Yeah, Lee the Pocketrak 2G is in the catalog I'm using ... as you say, it lists at $350. Says the thing is only .5 in thick .. I'm wondering how much sound the built-in speaker can put out. I'm checkin' it out. I downloaded the manual. A handy device, but if you're looking for something flexible, this looks weak. Its memory is 2GB and not removable -- which means you have to transfer files before you can record more, and based on the manual, finding the right files to delete could be nasty. It also doesn't have phantom power if you want a higher quality external microphone. The PCM recording is limited to 44.1KHz. And the temperature specs are especially bad at 41F to 95F (5C-35C). It looks like all you gain for paying an extra $50-150 is thin -- about the same HxW and 1/2 the D compared to the H2 or Microtrack. Unless thin is what is most important, wait for the next generation. Dennis ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT - Recorder
Aha ... someone who understands specs. I'm really glad you researched it ... I suspect others may be happy also. So far, I think it's going to be the ZOOM. Thanks, Dean On May 6, 2008, at 5:20 PM, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote: On Tue, May 6, 2008 6:29 pm, Dean M. Estabrook wrote: Yeah, Lee the Pocketrak 2G is in the catalog I'm using ... as you say, it lists at $350. Says the thing is only .5 in thick .. I'm wondering how much sound the built-in speaker can put out. I'm checkin' it out. I downloaded the manual. A handy device, but if you're looking for something flexible, this looks weak. Its memory is 2GB and not removable -- which means you have to transfer files before you can record more, and based on the manual, finding the right files to delete could be nasty. It also doesn't have phantom power if you want a higher quality external microphone. The PCM recording is limited to 44.1KHz. And the temperature specs are especially bad at 41F to 95F (5C-35C). It looks like all you gain for paying an extra $50-150 is thin -- about the same HxW and 1/2 the D compared to the H2 or Microtrack. Unless thin is what is most important, wait for the next generation. Dennis ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Dean M. Estabrook http://deanestabrook.googlepages.com/home When I am working on a problem, I never think about beauty. But when I have finished, if the solution is not beautiful, I know it is wrong. R. Buckminster Fuller ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] OT - Recorder
Before I spend hours googling this topic, I thought I'd ask for your opinions on the matter. My wife, a music educator, has a need for a digital recorder (and maybe playback machine) for use in her job. I think she's thinking in the $1k range (since CA got some special one time funding for such things). Any favorites, pitfalls, etc.? Her main need is to record rehearsals onto a disc and either play it back then and there, or bring it home for study and prep. Thanks in advance for the ubiquitous wisdom found on this list. Dean Dean M. Estabrook http://deanestabrook.googlepages.com/home When I am working on a problem, I never think about beauty. But when I have finished, if the solution is not beautiful, I know it is wrong. R. Buckminster Fuller ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
