Re: [Finale] Re: Where's the Default Document?
Thanks to all who helped me out with this one. But: although David F. has made a plausible case for the Finale File to be both in the general _and_ in the user App Support folder, it seems to me to be the kind of information that FinMac users should be told about, just in case they're brave enough to try to change something (again: no mention that I can find in the Help Files). And: didn't it used to be asking for trouble to have multiple copies of fonts on the same partition? Eric Habsburger Verlag Frankfurt (Dr. Fiedler) www.habsburgerverlag.de eric.f.fied...@t-online.de e.fied...@em.uni-frankfurt.de ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: Where's the Default Document?
On 4 Oct 2010 at 12:39, Eric Fiedler wrote: although David F. has made a plausible case for the Finale File to be both in the general _and_ in the user App Support folder, it seems to me to be the kind of information that FinMac users should be told about, just in case they're brave enough to try to change something (again: no mention that I can find in the Help Files). It's not a Finale issue. It's an OS issue. If you know how your OS works, this would be something you know. If you don't know that, it's something you shouldn't even be worrying about. -- David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: Where's the Default Document?
It's not a Finale issue. It's an OS issue. If you know how your OS works, this would be something you know. If you don't know that, it's something you shouldn't even be worrying about. Well I can assure that I know nothing about the OS. But access to the default document of Finale is very important. Mike G. www.mikegreensill.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: Where's the Default Document?
On 4 Oct 2010 at 8:59, Michael Greensill wrote: It's not a Finale issue. It's an OS issue. If you know how your OS works, this would be something you know. If you don't know that, it's something you shouldn't even be worrying about. Well I can assure that I know nothing about the OS. But access to the default document of Finale is very important. And what's the issue? The one in the user profile is the one you should be concerned with, not the ones stored in the application folder (unless you want to force all other users to use an altered version of the default document). Indeed, in general, the ones stored in the application folder likely are read-only (without elevating privileges, which depending on your OS, you may be prompted for automatically, or not). -- David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: Where's the Default Document?
Couple of problems with you proclamation there.. Lets look at Microsoft Office 11 shall we. What does it do with it's files on the Mac OS side? In /Users/MYUSERNAME/Library/Application Support/Microsoft/Office I have a User Templates folder which I assume that would be for me saving and modifying my settings and such. In Mac HD/Library/Applications Support/Microsoft I have NO Office folder. No global templates. Nada. I have some misc folders, but nothing that is a direct duplicate of what was in the user library App Support folder. I would imagine that the Word program creates the folder for a new user when they run it for the first time, but it certainly does not seem to be stored in the Global/Main Library on the root hard drive. So...I could list some more, but I see no other Mac program that out right stores pretty much the same stuff in TWO locations. Not even Digidesign/Avid ProTools.which is notorious for not doing stuff according to the rules. While Justin's (from MakeMusic) answer seem to make sense (really? Permission problems?), I think it leads to a lot of problems. Like when I was setting up Finale 2011, I have a lot of custom Fonts (like Bill Duncan's fonts) that have Annotation files. So I thought I would put them in the Global (root) Library's annotation folder. That didn't work. I believe I had to put them in the user one. But I wanted it global though..and what happens when there are TWO different versions of, say, an annotation file? Which will Finale choose to use? But what do I know, I guess I don't know how my OS works. On Oct 4, 2010, at 8:28 AM, David W. Fenton wrote: On 4 Oct 2010 at 12:39, Eric Fiedler wrote: although David F. has made a plausible case for the Finale File to be both in the general _and_ in the user App Support folder, it seems to me to be the kind of information that FinMac users should be told about, just in case they're brave enough to try to change something (again: no mention that I can find in the Help Files). It's not a Finale issue. It's an OS issue. If you know how your OS works, this would be something you know. If you don't know that, it's something you shouldn't even be worrying about. -- David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale NOT Sent from my iSomething ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: Where's the Default Document?
Um, it's actually NOT in the Applications folder anymore.and they are not read only. The confusion is that MakeMusic has duplicate files in two different Library locations. The Library on the root (or global library) and then duplicates in the user's library... But what do I know, I don't know how my OS works it seems. On Oct 4, 2010, at 9:33 AM, David W. Fenton wrote: On 4 Oct 2010 at 8:59, Michael Greensill wrote: It's not a Finale issue. It's an OS issue. If you know how your OS works, this would be something you know. If you don't know that, it's something you shouldn't even be worrying about. Well I can assure that I know nothing about the OS. But access to the default document of Finale is very important. And what's the issue? The one in the user profile is the one you should be concerned with, not the ones stored in the application folder (unless you want to force all other users to use an altered version of the default document). Indeed, in general, the ones stored in the application folder likely are read-only (without elevating privileges, which depending on your OS, you may be prompted for automatically, or not). -- David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale NOT Sent from my iSomething ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: Where's the Default Document?
It does seem a little troubling. What happens when you have two different versions of something? Like say Font Annotations? And as I pointed out, I don't see other programs following what MakeMusic decided to do with their strange Library setup (duplicating the stuff because of Permission issues? Really? Come on..) On Oct 4, 2010, at 3:39 AM, Eric Fiedler wrote: Thanks to all who helped me out with this one. But: although David F. has made a plausible case for the Finale File to be both in the general _and_ in the user App Support folder, it seems to me to be the kind of information that FinMac users should be told about, just in case they're brave enough to try to change something (again: no mention that I can find in the Help Files). And: didn't it used to be asking for trouble to have multiple copies of fonts on the same partition? Eric Habsburger Verlag Frankfurt (Dr. Fiedler) www.habsburgerverlag.de eric.f.fied...@t-online.de e.fied...@em.uni-frankfurt.de ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale NOT Sent from my iSomething ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: Where's the Default Document?
On 4 Oct 2010 at 9:34, Eric Dannewitz wrote: So...I could list some more, but I see no other Mac program that out right stores pretty much the same stuff in TWO locations. You choose as your example a Microsoft program? My point is that you basically shouldn't care about the archive copies of the files in the application folder, just as you don't care about whatever magic Microsoft apps use to create their template files. That's likely hardwired somewhere non-obvious in the application and the configuration files, and not alterable by the end user, and you just don't worry about it -- you just let the application do its job. If that means a new installation of Word has the wrong font in your Normal.dot document template, that's just the way it works. Likewise, with Finale, you should basically be ignoring the reference files in the application folder. They are for Finale's use, not yours. The ones that are for *your* use are the ones in the user folder. The difference between MS Office and Finale is that MS is more obscure about where it's getting its reference files from. There is no real difference, though, in that somewhere there's a definition of what the default templates are going to be in a newly-created user profile. Finale just makes it easier to figure out where those are coming from. But that doesn't mean you should care about those files at all. -- David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: Where's the Default Document?
Well, that is one program that had something similar. None of the Apple iLife programs seem to have any format like what MakeMusic is using. Nor does Avid's ProTools. I suppose I could have used Adobe but there is so much crap installed by Adobe CS that I can't find anything remotely like what MakeMusic is doing. Adobe literally floods the Application Support/Adobe Folder with subfolders Microsoft I think has the better idea, to have the program generate the default files when starting up under a new user rather than to have the files sitting in the global library. It is just causing a lot of confusion and a lot of duplication of files/settings with the end user ending up not knowing exactly what to modify where. On Oct 4, 2010, at 9:51 AM, David W. Fenton wrote: On 4 Oct 2010 at 9:34, Eric Dannewitz wrote: So...I could list some more, but I see no other Mac program that out right stores pretty much the same stuff in TWO locations. You choose as your example a Microsoft program? My point is that you basically shouldn't care about the archive copies of the files in the application folder, just as you don't care about whatever magic Microsoft apps use to create their template files. That's likely hardwired somewhere non-obvious in the application and the configuration files, and not alterable by the end user, and you just don't worry about it -- you just let the application do its job. If that means a new installation of Word has the wrong font in your Normal.dot document template, that's just the way it works. Likewise, with Finale, you should basically be ignoring the reference files in the application folder. They are for Finale's use, not yours. The ones that are for *your* use are the ones in the user folder. The difference between MS Office and Finale is that MS is more obscure about where it's getting its reference files from. There is no real difference, though, in that somewhere there's a definition of what the default templates are going to be in a newly-created user profile. Finale just makes it easier to figure out where those are coming from. But that doesn't mean you should care about those files at all. -- David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale NOT Sent from my iSomething ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: Where's the Default Document?
On Oct 4, 2010, at 9:51 AM, David W. Fenton wrote: Likewise, with Finale, you should basically be ignoring the reference files in the application folder. They are for Finale's use, not yours. The ones that are for *your* use are the ones in the user folder. Except, as Eric points out, there is confusion about where Font Annotation files need to be placed in order to do their job, and this turns out to be in the Application Support folders at the root level. That's the only place from which they work. This is the only example I have found that does not follow the logic MM and you describe, but I go through the frustrating process of figuring this out (I am forgetful about it, I admit) each time I upgrade. Chuck Chuck Israels 1310 NW Naito Parkway #807 Portland, OR 97209-3162 phone: (503) 926-7952 cell phone: (360) 201-3434 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: Where's the Default Document?
On 4 Oct 2010 at 11:23, Chuck Israels wrote: On Oct 4, 2010, at 9:51 AM, David W. Fenton wrote: Likewise, with Finale, you should basically be ignoring the reference files in the application folder. They are for Finale's use, not yours. The ones that are for *your* use are the ones in the user folder. Except, as Eric points out, there is confusion about where Font Annotation files need to be placed in order to do their job, and this turns out to be in the Application Support folders at the root level. That's the only place from which they work. This is the only example I have found that does not follow the logic MM and you describe, but I go through the frustrating process of figuring this out (I am forgetful about it, I admit) each time I upgrade. That seems to be an implementation error on MM's part, then. -- David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: Where's the Default Document?
David, As Justin has just kindly pointed out, this is a _new_ development in Finale's file structure, something quite different from the previous versions, and it would have been a _great_ help to those of us who don't always have time to RTFM from cover to cover each time a new version comes out to know about it. Just a quick link in the What's New Intro to the relevant on-line documentation (Thanks Justin!) would have done the trick. And by the way, I _do_ know how my OS works, and I obviously _didn't_ know how Finale had changed to adapt to it. ;-) The other Eric Habsburger Verlag Frankfurt (Dr. Fiedler) www.habsburgerverlag.de eric.f.fied...@t-online.de e.fied...@em.uni-frankfurt.de On 04.10.2010, at 17:28, David W. Fenton wrote: On 4 Oct 2010 at 12:39, Eric Fiedler wrote: although David F. has made a plausible case for the Finale File to be both in the general _and_ in the user App Support folder, it seems to me to be the kind of information that FinMac users should be told about, just in case they're brave enough to try to change something (again: no mention that I can find in the Help Files). It's not a Finale issue. It's an OS issue. If you know how your OS works, this would be something you know. If you don't know that, it's something you shouldn't even be worrying about. -- David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: Where's the Default Document?
On Oct 4, 2010, at 12:27 PM, David W. Fenton wrote: On 4 Oct 2010 at 11:23, Chuck Israels wrote: On Oct 4, 2010, at 9:51 AM, David W. Fenton wrote: Likewise, with Finale, you should basically be ignoring the reference files in the application folder. They are for Finale's use, not yours. The ones that are for *your* use are the ones in the user folder. Except, as Eric points out, there is confusion about where Font Annotation files need to be placed in order to do their job, and this turns out to be in the Application Support folders at the root level. That's the only place from which they work. This is the only example I have found that does not follow the logic MM and you describe, but I go through the frustrating process of figuring this out (I am forgetful about it, I admit) each time I upgrade. That seems to be an implementation error on MM's part, then. So it seems. I will ask MM to explore the possibility of fixing this. It doesn't seem (from my limited perspective) to be a difficult thing to do, since everything else seems to be controlled by the files stored at the user level. Chuck Chuck Israels 1310 NW Naito Parkway #807 Portland, OR 97209-3162 phone: (503) 926-7952 cell phone: (360) 201-3434 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Re: Where's the Default Document?
Look in the same folder under your user account instead of at the Drive level. If it's not there, see what it says in the Program Options Folders window. Hope this helps, Brian On 10/3/10 10:00 AM, finale-requ...@shsu.edu wrote: Dear collective wisdom, FinMac 2011. Up to now we have always thrown together new templates for each new version of Finale and then used these for new projects. But occasionally it would be nice to just be able to use the default document (in the opening window) for simple chores. But where is it? And no, it's not in: Mac HDLibraryApp SupportMakeMusicFinale 2011 Music Files Default Files where all the files got put on our new machines, and where you might expect to find it. As a matter of fact, it doesn't seem to be _anywhere_ in the Finale Folder. And the FM doesn't even have an entry for default document ... Any idea where the pesky programmers at MM might have stashed it? Eric ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
