Re: [Finale] horn transposition question
The fact that french horns (corno) was originally written one octave above in soprano clef, and in actual pitch in basso, explain the difference from bas and clef transposition. To calculate from notation in a transposed part to actual sound: find the interval in relation to C (below) and add it to the instruments fundamental. From actual sound to notation: find the interval in relation to the instruments fundamental and add it to C (above). On Mar 21, 2007, at 12:11 AM, Robert Patterson wrote: Except that there are no worms in this case (an 18th cent composition). A top-line bass clef A is possible on a natural horn only if the bass clef is old notation. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] horn transposition question
On 20 mrt 2007, at 15:37, Martin Banner wrote: Also, if I have a horn in G written in bass clef, what concert pitch will actually sound if I write an A on fifth line (A right below middle C). that depends. In older notation it should have sound as D4 (D above middle C) In modern notation however as d (middle line in bass clef. Thanks, Martin Do not forget, the horn is in G. not F. Therefore, on the assumption this is an old horn part, a written A on the fifth line of the bass clef will sound E above middle C. Regards, Michael Lawlor mail2web.com - Microsoft® Exchange solutions from a leading provider - http://link.mail2web.com/Business/Exchange ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] horn transposition question
I'm sorry! You're right of course. I should have read the question more carefully. Hans === On 21 mrt 2007, at 09:50, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 20 mrt 2007, at 15:37, Martin Banner wrote: Also, if I have a horn in G written in bass clef, what concert pitch will actually sound if I write an A on fifth line (A right below middle C). that depends. In older notation it should have sound as D4 (D above middle C) In modern notation however as d (middle line in bass clef. Thanks, Martin Do not forget, the horn is in G. not F. Therefore, on the assumption this is an old horn part, a written A on the fifth line of the bass clef will sound E above middle C. Regards, Michael Lawlor mail2web.com - Microsoft® Exchange solutions from a leading provider - http://link.mail2web.com/Business/Exchange ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Outgoing mail checked by Norton Antivirus ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] horn transposition question
Robert Patterson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [...] A top-line bass clef A is possible on a natural horn only if the bass clef is old notation. In old notation bass clef it is the same note as the 2nd-space A in treble clef. For horn in G, this sounds as the E above middle C. [...] The question then arises, Why not notate it in treble clef? A possible reason is that it is a 1st or 3rd horn part that shares a stave in the score with a low note from 2nd or 4th. IIRC, that situation arises in one of Strauss's Four Last Songs. -- Ken Moore ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] horn transposition question
On 3/21/07, Ken Moore [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A possible reason is that it is a 1st or 3rd horn part that shares a stave in the score with low note from 2nd or 4th. That is the primary reason I know of. It is important also to realize that old-notation bass clef is really a form of alto clef. Indeed it is only one line off from alto clef. (Middle-c is 2nd space instead of 3rd line.) This is not unlike what happens with tenor-treble clef. Because the horn is written as an alto-register instrument, using a form of alto clef for it makes some sense. The best thing about alto-bass clef is that low notes look low and high notes look high. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] horn transposition question
On 20 mrt 2007, at 15:37, Martin Banner wrote: If I have a horn in G, and write a D (fourth line treble clef), will that sound as a concert A (second space treble clef)? Yes. Also, if I have a horn in G written in bass clef, what concert pitch will actually sound if I write an A on fifth line (A right below middle C). that depends. In older notation it should have sound as D4 (D above middle C) In modern notation however as d (middle line in bass clef. Thanks, Martin My pleasure, Hans === Outgoing mail checked by Norton Antivirus ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] horn transposition question
You're right. But that wasn't the question, was it? Yours, Hans === On 20 mrt 2007, at 18:39, Andrew Stiller wrote: On Mar 20, 2007, at 11:49 AM, Hans Swinnen wrote: On 20 mrt 2007, at 15:37, Martin Banner wrote: Also, if I have a horn in G written in bass clef, what concert pitch will actually sound if I write an A on fifth line (A right below middle C). that depends. In older notation it should have sound as D4 (D above middle C) In modern notation however as d (middle line in bass clef. I would think it vanishingly unlikely that the modern bass clef style would ever appear for any but the horn in F. Andrew Stiller Kallisti Music Press http://www.kallistimusic.com/kallisti.html ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Outgoing mail checked by Norton Antivirus ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] horn transposition question
The part in question is horn in G in bass clef, but not modern. It is by an 18th Century Italian (Tuscany) composer. I should have stated the time frame in my original post. Martin On Mar 20, 2007, at 1:39 PM, Andrew Stiller wrote: On Mar 20, 2007, at 11:49 AM, Hans Swinnen wrote: On 20 mrt 2007, at 15:37, Martin Banner wrote: Also, if I have a horn in G written in bass clef, what concert pitch will actually sound if I write an A on fifth line (A right below middle C). that depends. In older notation it should have sound as D4 (D above middle C) In modern notation however as d (middle line in bass clef. I would think it vanishingly unlikely that the modern bass clef style would ever appear for any but the horn in F. Andrew Stiller Kallisti Music Press http://www.kallistimusic.com/kallisti.html ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Martin Banner [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] horn transposition question
The A written on the fifth line of the bass clef is a very unusual note to find in a part for natural horn (if that's what it is) Cheers, Lawrence lawrenceyates.co.uk ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] horn transposition question
At 10:37 AM -0400 3/20/07, Martin Banner wrote: If I have a horn in G, and write a D (fourth line treble clef), will that sound as a concert A (second space treble clef)? Yes. Also, if I have a horn in G written in bass clef, what concert pitch will actually sound if I write an A on fifth line (A right below middle C). A can of worms just as confusing as bass clarinet in bass clef. Depends on the composer. John -- John Susie Howell Virginia Tech Department of Music Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A 24061-0240 Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034 (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] horn transposition question
Except that there are no worms in this case (an 18th cent composition). A top-line bass clef A is possible on a natural horn only if the bass clef is old notation. In old notation bass clef it is the same note as the 2nd-space A in treble clef. For horn in G, this sounds as the E above middle C. Unless it is G-basso. But that's not likely unless it is Italian opera from Rossini thru Verdi. An even then it is not likely. Only possible. It is more likely in a 3rd/4th horn part than a 1st/2nd horn part. John Howell wrote: Also, if I have a horn in G written in bass clef, what concert pitch will actually sound if I write an A on fifth line (A right below middle C). A can of worms just as confusing as bass clarinet in bass clef. Depends on the composer. John -- Robert Patterson http://RobertGPatterson.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
