Re: [Finale] mirroring behaviour
On 21.09.2007 dhbailey wrote: In event, the keystrokes are the same to get the same result, mirrors or plain copying -- shift-ctrl-click USED to put the material in the new measures, but for the past couple of versions, it is ctrl-click (opt-click, I think, on Macs) to paste the material (mirror or just a new copy of the data) while the old method brings up the Items To Copy dialog and THEN gets to the number of times to copy it. I realize that now. Still, bringing up that box when mirroring is plain nonsense, since it doesn't actually do anything. Johannes -- http://www.musikmanufaktur.com http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] mirroring behaviour
Johannes Gebauer wrote: On 20.09.2007 Johannes Gebauer wrote: I am having problems in 2k7 mirroring passages using the method to shift-option-click on the target measure. This doesn't work with mirroring, it seems, and I am now remembering there was a bug somewhere. Can someone tell me what the workaround was? Actually, it does work after all, only the items to copy dialog comes up, which is a little confusing, since I don't think it does anythign in this context. Johannes It's just ctrl-click on Windows (or is it shift-click?) to copy as you're trying to do -- adding both modifier keys brings up the items to copy dialog. So try just shift-click or opt-click and it should work as it used to. This was changed with Fin2006, if I recall correctly. -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
RE: [Finale] mirroring behaviour
Will someone please explain- I words of one syllable please- what Mirroring actually is? In ten years of Finale I've never known- and certainly never used it. Cheers K in OZ Keith Helgesen. Ph: (02) 62910787. Mob 0417-042171 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of dhbailey Sent: Friday, 21 September 2007 5:46 AM To: finale@shsu.edu Subject: Re: [Finale] mirroring behaviour Johannes Gebauer wrote: On 20.09.2007 Johannes Gebauer wrote: I am having problems in 2k7 mirroring passages using the method to shift-option-click on the target measure. This doesn't work with mirroring, it seems, and I am now remembering there was a bug somewhere. Can someone tell me what the workaround was? Actually, it does work after all, only the items to copy dialog comes up, which is a little confusing, since I don't think it does anythign in this context. Johannes It's just ctrl-click on Windows (or is it shift-click?) to copy as you're trying to do -- adding both modifier keys brings up the items to copy dialog. So try just shift-click or opt-click and it should work as it used to. This was changed with Fin2006, if I recall correctly. -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] mirroring behaviour
He wasn't using Mirroring in the same sense that Finale has Mirrors. He was just using the term to indicate taking a selected passage and copying it to a different location. Mirrors as Finale uses the term means telling Finale that you want measures 100-120 (for example) to be exact copies of measures 20-40. That way any edits you make in measures 20-40 are immediately copied to measures 100-120. You can't make anything different between the two sets of measures. It makes it easy if you always want exact duplicate measures, but you can't even change the articulation in measures 100-120. To do any edit which is different between the two sets, you have to break the mirror link, at which point Finale writes the data into measures 100-120, giving you two sets of data. When the Mirror link is intact, there aren't two sets of data, there is the date in measures 20-40 and some sort of pointer in measures 100-120 which says put whatever is in measures 20-40 here also. I've never used it either, other than to experiment with it to see how useful it might be. It would be very useful for someone who is using the never write repeats or D.C./D.S. -- write everything out straight through so nobody can ever get lost approach. But since I don't do that, I prefer to use the copy/paste approach to duplicate sets of data and then edit each of the sets of data so there can be some variety. David H. Bailey keith helgesen wrote: Will someone please explain- I words of one syllable please- what Mirroring actually is? In ten years of Finale I've never known- and certainly never used it. Cheers K in OZ Keith Helgesen. Ph: (02) 62910787. Mob 0417-042171 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of dhbailey Sent: Friday, 21 September 2007 5:46 AM To: finale@shsu.edu Subject: Re: [Finale] mirroring behaviour Johannes Gebauer wrote: On 20.09.2007 Johannes Gebauer wrote: I am having problems in 2k7 mirroring passages using the method to shift-option-click on the target measure. This doesn't work with mirroring, it seems, and I am now remembering there was a bug somewhere. Can someone tell me what the workaround was? Actually, it does work after all, only the items to copy dialog comes up, which is a little confusing, since I don't think it does anythign in this context. Johannes It's just ctrl-click on Windows (or is it shift-click?) to copy as you're trying to do -- adding both modifier keys brings up the items to copy dialog. So try just shift-click or opt-click and it should work as it used to. This was changed with Fin2006, if I recall correctly. -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] mirroring behaviour
On 21.09.2007 dhbailey wrote: He wasn't using Mirroring in the same sense that Finale has Mirrors. He was just using the term to indicate taking a selected passage and copying it to a different location. Sorry David, but I was indeed refering to Mirrors as they are used by Finale. I don't know of any other mirror function in Finale, and I do use mirrors extensively in certain music, and in certain stages of the editing. Johannes -- http://www.musikmanufaktur.com http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] mirroring behaviour
On 20.09.2007 keith helgesen wrote: Will someone please explain- I words of one syllable please- what Mirroring actually is? In ten years of Finale I've never known- and certainly never used it. In addition to what David has already mentioned: Mirrors, imo, are an extremely useful way in Finale to have one passage displayed twice. Once you have mirrored a passage somewhere else, every change, addition, every articulation, slur, text, expression will appear also in the mirror. I use mirrors for two situations: In baroque and early classical music when eg the two violin parts in an orchestral piece are exactly the same, often not even written out in the manuscript, and also, occasionally in Da Capo situations. I usually will eventually convert the mirrors into real notes, but in the working stage they save me a lot of work. Johannes -- http://www.musikmanufaktur.com http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] mirroring behaviour
On Sep 21, 2007, at 3:58 AM, dhbailey wrote: Mirrors as Finale uses the term means telling Finale that you want measures 100-120 (for example) to be exact copies of measures 20-40. That way any edits you make in measures 20-40 are immediately copied to measures 100-120. You can't make anything different between the two sets of measures. It makes it easy if you always want exact duplicate measures, but you can't even change the articulation in measures 100-120. To do any edit which is different between the two sets, you have to break the mirror link, at which point Finale writes the data into measures 100-120, giving you two sets of data. When the Mirror link is intact, there aren't two sets of data, there is the date in measures 20-40 and some sort of pointer in measures 100-120 which says put whatever is in measures 20-40 here also. I've never used it either, other than to experiment with it to see how useful it might be. It would be very useful for someone who is using the never write repeats or D.C./D.S. -- write everything out straight through so nobody can ever get lost approach. But since I don't do that, I prefer to use the copy/paste approach to duplicate sets of data and then edit each of the sets of data so there can be some variety. I use mirrors when I am writing a repeating accompaniment and I think the client might want changes. This way I only have to make the change in the original measures for it to cascade through the piece. Saves mondo time when a client changes his mind a lot. Otherwise, I never use them for my own music, as everything is worked out on a pencil sketch before I ever open up Finale. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] mirroring behaviour
dc wrote: Johannes Gebauer écrit: I am having problems in 2k7 mirroring passages using the method to shift-option-click on the target measure. This doesn't work with mirroring, it seems, and I am now remembering there was a bug somewhere. Can someone tell me what the workaround was? I just tried with 2k7, and it works with ctrl+shift+click. Could this be a Mac bug? I uses to use mirrors quite often, but I've had a few bad surprises when I wanted to make slight changes at the end in the mirrored version (after converting it, of course), so I gave up. Dennis You get a mirror when you ctrl-shift-click? All I get is a duplicate set of data which doesn't change when the first data is changed. -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] mirroring behaviour
On 21.09.2007 dhbailey wrote: You get a mirror when you ctrl-shift-click? All I get is a duplicate set of data which doesn't change when the first data is changed. You have to activate this function in the mass edit menu (up to 2k7, not sure about 2k8). Johannes -- http://www.musikmanufaktur.com http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] mirroring behaviour
On 21.09.2007 David W. Fenton wrote: You can't make anything different between the two sets of measures. Er, isn't that what the tilting mirrors were for? I've never used them, but the idea was that you could do certain things that would make the mirror appear different from the original. I've never used it and don't have Finale installed on the machine I'm typing this on, so can't check, but I know that *something* called tilting mirrors does exist. They do exist, but they are extremely difficult to master, I certainly could not get them to work the way I wanted. I actually don't quite see the point of them. Mirrors are good for identical passages. They are also useful when entering a piece, even if the passages are not totally identical as long as the notes are the same, and one is happy to convert mirrors at some stage. Imo mirrors are of no use at all as soon as the notes are not identical. Johanes -- http://www.musikmanufaktur.com http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] mirroring behaviour
dc wrote: dhbailey écrit: You get a mirror when you ctrl-shift-click? All I get is a duplicate set of data which doesn't change when the first data is changed. Well, first, you have to go in the Mass Edit menu and tick Mirror if you want a mirror! I said I didn't work with mirrors much. :-) In event, the keystrokes are the same to get the same result, mirrors or plain copying -- shift-ctrl-click USED to put the material in the new measures, but for the past couple of versions, it is ctrl-click (opt-click, I think, on Macs) to paste the material (mirror or just a new copy of the data) while the old method brings up the Items To Copy dialog and THEN gets to the number of times to copy it. -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
RE: [Finale] mirroring behaviour
Thanks, David, Johannes, Christopher et al. for explanations. I tend to do the sections, then - as David does, cut and paste. I can certainly see the advantage of mirrors in 'change of mind by client etc' situation! Thanks as ever Keith in OZ Keith Helgesen. Ph: (02) 62910787. Mob 0417-042171 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of dhbailey Sent: Friday, 21 September 2007 5:58 PM To: finale@shsu.edu Subject: Re: [Finale] mirroring behaviour He wasn't using Mirroring in the same sense that Finale has Mirrors. He was just using the term to indicate taking a selected passage and copying it to a different location. Mirrors as Finale uses the term means telling Finale that you want measures 100-120 (for example) to be exact copies of measures 20-40. That way any edits you make in measures 20-40 are immediately copied to measures 100-120. You can't make anything different between the two sets of measures. It makes it easy if you always want exact duplicate measures, but you can't even change the articulation in measures 100-120. To do any edit which is different between the two sets, you have to break the mirror link, at which point Finale writes the data into measures 100-120, giving you two sets of data. When the Mirror link is intact, there aren't two sets of data, there is the date in measures 20-40 and some sort of pointer in measures 100-120 which says put whatever is in measures 20-40 here also. I've never used it either, other than to experiment with it to see how useful it might be. It would be very useful for someone who is using the never write repeats or D.C./D.S. -- write everything out straight through so nobody can ever get lost approach. But since I don't do that, I prefer to use the copy/paste approach to duplicate sets of data and then edit each of the sets of data so there can be some variety. David H. Bailey keith helgesen wrote: Will someone please explain- I words of one syllable please- what Mirroring actually is? In ten years of Finale I've never known- and certainly never used it. Cheers K in OZ Keith Helgesen. Ph: (02) 62910787. Mob 0417-042171 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of dhbailey Sent: Friday, 21 September 2007 5:46 AM To: finale@shsu.edu Subject: Re: [Finale] mirroring behaviour Johannes Gebauer wrote: On 20.09.2007 Johannes Gebauer wrote: I am having problems in 2k7 mirroring passages using the method to shift-option-click on the target measure. This doesn't work with mirroring, it seems, and I am now remembering there was a bug somewhere. Can someone tell me what the workaround was? Actually, it does work after all, only the items to copy dialog comes up, which is a little confusing, since I don't think it does anythign in this context. Johannes It's just ctrl-click on Windows (or is it shift-click?) to copy as you're trying to do -- adding both modifier keys brings up the items to copy dialog. So try just shift-click or opt-click and it should work as it used to. This was changed with Fin2006, if I recall correctly. -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] mirroring behaviour
I am having problems in 2k7 mirroring passages using the method to shift-option-click on the target measure. This doesn't work with mirroring, it seems, and I am now remembering there was a bug somewhere. Can someone tell me what the workaround was? Johannes -- http://www.musikmanufaktur.com http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] mirroring behaviour
On 20.09.2007 Johannes Gebauer wrote: I am having problems in 2k7 mirroring passages using the method to shift-option-click on the target measure. This doesn't work with mirroring, it seems, and I am now remembering there was a bug somewhere. Can someone tell me what the workaround was? Actually, it does work after all, only the items to copy dialog comes up, which is a little confusing, since I don't think it does anythign in this context. Johannes -- http://www.musikmanufaktur.com http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
