RE: [flexcoders] No more posts re: moderation / yahoogroups pls
Steven, It does not make a lot of sense to defend again and againwhathas beenright for a few 100 flexcoders two years ago, while so many community members have new ideas to make things better. Embrace complaints and suggestions instead of asking people not to post their ideas anymore on how to improve this community. This request soundsweird from an innovative guy like you. This is a community, you cannot dictate the topics on the agenda. Times change, new members arrive, people are getting used to better experiences, this means flexcoders need to adapt to these changes as well, especially now we are going to see an increase in the amountof people working with Flex. Where do you see room for improvement? What are your plans for flexcoders?. Show us your roadmap for flexcoders 2.0? Vinny From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steven WebsterSent: zondag 18 juni 2006 6:52To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.comSubject: [flexcoders] No more posts re: moderation / yahoogroups pls Guys, Post will be much easier to find, and the list much easier to read, if there aren't 30+ posts a day with various opinions on how the list could be different or better ! We've had a successful community running here on yahoogroups since day zero of Flex's launch ... we'll keep a very close eye on whether there's a compelling need to make changes to the way the list operates, but for the time being, it's satisfying the aims of the silent majority. For many of us, yahoogroups *is* the flex coding community - if you've joined recently, I'd urge you to get to know the community here, rather than call for it's fragmentation. There's a depth of resource on this list like few others - newcomers arrive in waves, and with each wave, those who have come before them are doing a tremendous job of answering the questions that they themselves were asking only a few months ago. With the depth of experience on the list going all the way back to the community who were using Flex during it's advisory board/alpha/beta before the Flex 1.0 release, the Adobe Consultants who are helping customers and partners in their success with Flex, and a great number of the Adobe Engineers who unofficially hang out here to make sure that the fruits of their labor become the enabling technology for the fruits of yours, you're not going to struggle to have your questions answered here. There's an archive search of the list here - http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com - if anyone requires it, and as so many of you have pointed out, there are a number of strategies of using your various and favourite mail clients to find a way of using and contributing to the list in a manner that suits your needs. Can I ask that we move the conversation on from the technical infrastrcture behind the list - as with a community of ~4000 people, there are always going to be opinions on how things could be done differently, that will match some needs but not others. Instead, can I ask that we return our focus back to ensuring that flexcoders continue to be the high-value resource and focalpoint of the Flex development community that it has successfully been for almost two and half years. Let's hear about the web-changing experiences you're delivering with Flex, the challenges you faced building them, and the solutions you innovated to address them. Best wishes, Steven ( List administrator ) __._,_.___ -- Flexcoders Mailing List FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt Search Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com SPONSORED LINKS Web site design development Computer software development Software design and development Macromedia flex Software development best practice YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "flexcoders" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
RE: [flexcoders] No more posts re: moderation / yahoogroups pls
Vinny, Honestly, I'd love for this to be the last post on the subject; not to censor or to stifle information, but because for the vast majority of the list, this is a topic that they are using their delete key for. The purpose of flexcoders is not to be a forum, is not to be a resource of articles, is not to be a knowledge base, is not to be a community site as such. The purpose of flexcoders is to provide a mailing list where people can email questions, and where people can email responses. There are numerous solutions to providing a mailing list, and we've chosen yahoogroups. Others have sought to have more of a web-based community, and have responded to that - Tariq's efforts with cfflex would be a great example of this. If anyone feels there is a gap in the community - an online chat, a place for posting and sharing code snippets, a knowledge base of articles, and they don't feel that things like labs, adobe forums, blogs, cfflex,etc, are covering those gaps, I'd encourage you to innovate and deliver. This is a mailing list, not a software product - we don't have a team "publishing a roadmap for flexcoders 2". Rather we'd devote our time to supporting the mailing list as best we can, by keeping the signal to noise ratio high through the minimum amount of moderation, and contributing knowledge to the list where the gaps exist. We have a team of moderators who have the sole aim of ensuring that this list is as spam free as possible (and I'd hope you feel that we're achieving that) and who try to step in as little as possible when the content on the list is deviating from the core subject as much as possible. If we're achieving both these aims, we're achieving our ambition with flexcoders. If - with the release of Flex 2 - there is an explosive growth in the community, and a need to split into separate lists, we will entertain that option. However, this option can create as many problems as it solves - people cross-posting to lists and the volume of emails increasing rather than becoming more managable, or the reaching of a tipping point whereby those who hang out on the list to "give more than they receive" find the effort has reached the point of overwhelming, and the fragmentation drives down the value of content. But we are users as well as moderators of the list, and as soon as it becomes unusable for us, we'll be sure to entertain the next logical options. We are keeping flexcoders the way it is right now not because we don't care, but because we care passionately. It is never our intention to offer web-based forums, wikis, blogs, knowledge bases or any of these other things. There are other resources for doing so, or the community is able to respond accordingly. Perhaps you are volunteering ? :) Flexcoders is a mailing list, and the primary interaction is intended by design to be people posting emails to the list, and these emails hitting the inbox of every other member, with a digest for those who wish to scan on a more irregular basis. This enables the quickest responses to solutions, so that the list becomes an enabling means of making the growing flexcoders community as successful as possible. This is a forum where those learning and pushing the technology, can hit a brick wall several times a day, and have that wall removed for them by someone else. That carries immeasurable value to me. I stress again; we have close to 4000 members who are using the list regularly, and there are less than 10-15 members who regularly post about alternatives (more often that not, moving the list to their own site or servers). We're only trying to be a mailing list, and the volume and value that the community are finding from the emails here, would suggest we're still doing a decent job of being just that. Now please, if people want to discuss alternatives, can we take the discussion off-list, rather than frustrate those here, who are happy with the solution as is, and who are more interested in "flexcoding". Thanks for your passionate support; that's a great measure of community. Best, Steven __._,_.___ -- Flexcoders Mailing List FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt Search Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com SPONSORED LINKS Web site design development Computer software development Software design and development Macromedia flex Software development best practice YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "flexcoders" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
RE: [flexcoders] No more posts re: moderation / yahoogroups pls
Steven, agreed. A final puzzle for you. Given Adobe's target to attract hundreds of thousandsnew Flex developerswhich mayleadto 15.000members ofFlexcodersin2007. In 2007 how many times do you thinka member willhaveto hit the delete keya day for flexcoders alone when flexcoders does not offer categorization? And how much timedo members wasteeveryday reading flexcoders subject linesthey arenot interested in? Last word from me on this topic! Vinny P.S. If you are looking for people to help you transform flexcoders into a full blown community with all the bells and whistles, yes you can count on my contribution. And if you need more HBR articles, i'll provide those too :-) From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steven WebsterSent: zondag 18 juni 2006 11:58To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.comSubject: RE: [flexcoders] No more posts re: moderation / yahoogroups pls Vinny, Honestly, I'd love for this to be the last post on the subject; not to censor or to stifle information, but because for the vast majority of the list, this is a topic that they are using their delete key for. The purpose of flexcoders is not to be a forum, is not to be a resource of articles, is not to be a knowledge base, is not to be a community site as such. The purpose of flexcoders is to provide a mailing list where people can email questions, and where people can email responses. There are numerous solutions to providing a mailing list, and we've chosen yahoogroups. Others have sought to have more of a web-based community, and have responded to that - Tariq's efforts with cfflex would be a great example of this. If anyone feels there is a gap in the community - an online chat, a place for posting and sharing code snippets, a knowledge base of articles, and they don't feel that things like labs, adobe forums, blogs, cfflex,etc, are covering those gaps, I'd encourage you to innovate and deliver. This is a mailing list, not a software product - we don't have a team "publishing a roadmap for flexcoders 2". Rather we'd devote our time to supporting the mailing list as best we can, by keeping the signal to noise ratio high through the minimum amount of moderation, and contributing knowledge to the list where the gaps exist. We have a team of moderators who have the sole aim of ensuring that this list is as spam free as possible (and I'd hope you feel that we're achieving that) and who try to step in as little as possible when the content on the list is deviating from the core subject as much as possible. If we're achieving both these aims, we're achieving our ambition with flexcoders. If - with the release of Flex 2 - there is an explosive growth in the community, and a need to split into separate lists, we will entertain that option. However, this option can create as many problems as it solves - people cross-posting to lists and the volume of emails increasing rather than becoming more managable, or the reaching of a tipping point whereby those who hang out on the list to "give more than they receive" find the effort has reached the point of overwhelming, and the fragmentation drives down the value of content. But we are users as well as moderators of the list, and as soon as it becomes unusable for us, we'll be sure to entertain the next logical options. We are keeping flexcoders the way it is right now not because we don't care, but because we care passionately. It is never our intention to offer web-based forums, wikis, blogs, knowledge bases or any of these other things. There are other resources for doing so, or the community is able to respond accordingly. Perhaps you are volunteering ? :) Flexcoders is a mailing list, and the primary interaction is intended by design to be people posting emails to the list, and these emails hitting the inbox of every other member, with a digest for those who wish to scan on a more irregular basis. This enables the quickest responses to solutions, so that the list becomes an enabling means of making the growing flexcoders community as successful as possible. This is a forum where those learning and pushing the technology, can hit a brick wall several times a day, and have that wall removed for them by someone else. That carries immeasurable value to me. I stress again; we have close to 4000 members who are using the list regularly, and there are less than 10-15 members who regularly post about alternatives (more often that not, moving the list to their own site or servers). We're only trying to be a mailing list, and the volume and value that the community are finding from the emails here, would suggest we're still doing a decent job of being just that. Now please, if people want to discuss alternatives, can we take the discussion off-list, rather than frustrate those here, who are happy with the solution as is, and who are more interested in "flexcoding"
RE: [flexcoders] No more posts re: moderation / yahoogroups pls
Steven, agreed. A final puzzle for you. Given Adobe's target to attract hundreds of thousandsnew Flex developerswhich mayleadto 15.000members ofFlexcodersin2007. Vinny, as you know, I'm also a big proponent of agilemethods - so I'm a big believer in "the simplest thing that works" and "no bigup-front design". Sowhen the situation you described happens, the cost of us switching then will be no greater than the cost of us switching now, and who knows, by the time we actually have to make that decision, there may be a better solution that isn't available to us at present. Best, Steven __._,_.___ -- Flexcoders Mailing List FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt Search Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com SPONSORED LINKS Web site design development Computer software development Software design and development Macromedia flex Software development best practice YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "flexcoders" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
Re: [flexcoders] No more posts re: moderation / yahoogroups pls
Steven, I was nieve when I posted a couple things also but, by the time we actually have to make that decision, there may be a better solution that isn't available to us at present. I am sure this type of thinking for you got you to where you are today. Peace, Mike On 6/18/06, Steven Webster [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Steven, agreed. A final puzzle for you. Given Adobe's target to attract hundreds of thousandsnew Flex developerswhich mayleadto 15.000members ofFlexcodersin2007. Vinny, as you know, I'm also a big proponent of agilemethods - so I'm a big believer in the simplest thing that works and no bigup-front design. Sowhen the situation you described happens, the cost of us switching then will be no greater than the cost of us switching now, and who knows, by the time we actually have to make that decision, there may be a better solution that isn't available to us at present. Best, Steven -- What goes up, does come down. __._,_.___ -- Flexcoders Mailing List FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt Search Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com SPONSORED LINKS Web site design development Computer software development Software design and development Macromedia flex Software development best practice YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "flexcoders" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
[flexcoders] No more posts re: moderation / yahoogroups pls
Guys, Post will be much easier to find, and the list much easier to read, if there aren't 30+ posts a day with various opinions on how the list could be different or better ! We've had a successful community running here on yahoogroups since day zero of Flex's launch ... we'll keep a very close eye on whether there's a compelling need to make changes to the way the list operates, but for the time being, it's satisfying the aims of the silent majority. For many of us, yahoogroups *is* the flex coding community - if you've joined recently, I'd urge you to get to know the community here, rather than call for it's fragmentation. There's a depth of resource on this list like few others - newcomers arrive in waves, and with each wave, those who have come before them are doing a tremendous job of answering the questions that they themselves were asking only a few months ago. With the depth of experience on the list going all the way back to the community who were using Flex during it's advisory board/alpha/beta before the Flex 1.0 release, the Adobe Consultants who are helping customers and partners in their success with Flex, and a great number of the Adobe Engineers who unofficially hang out here to make sure that the fruits of their labor become the enabling technology for the fruits of yours, you're not going to struggle to have your questions answered here. There's an archive search of the list here - http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com - if anyone requires it, and as so many of you have pointed out, there are a number of strategies of using your various and favourite mail clients to find a way of using and contributing to the list in a manner that suits your needs. Can I ask that we move the conversation on from the technical infrastrcture behind the list - as with a community of ~4000 people, there are always going to be opinions on how things could be done differently, that will match some needs but not others. Instead, can I ask that we return our focus back to ensuring that flexcoders continue to be the high-value resource and focalpoint of the Flex development community that it has successfully been for almost two and half years. Let's hear about the web-changing experiences you're delivering with Flex, the challenges you faced building them, and the solutions you innovated to address them. Best wishes, Steven ( List administrator ) __._,_.___ -- Flexcoders Mailing List FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt Search Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com SPONSORED LINKS Web site design development Computer software development Software design and development Macromedia flex Software development best practice YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "flexcoders" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
