RE: [flexcoders] Re: Adding AS3 support to 3rd party editors - legal question
I see what youre saying now. Im not sure that would be the end of the world (the lawyer canceled the meeting so I wont get to talk to him till next week) but a more traditional approach would be to get your editor to understand the AS3 source format. Since we ship the source in the SDK you could just parse that and get all the information you need. I think understanding the source format is going to be more flexible than manually entering information from livedocs. Of course the real thing to do is understand the bytecode format, but we havent documented that as of yet. I have asked legal for help in getting an official answer to What can I use from the SDK if I wanted to write my own IDE?. It will be a few days before I can answer that, but I can tell you that the spirit of our EULA is not meant to prevent you from doing that. So we are not trying to throw up legal roadblocks to you building an editor. Which is not to say were actively looking for competitors to start up when were still trying to sell Flex Builder ;-) Matt From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of ben.clinkinbeard Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2006 1:33 PM To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: [flexcoders] Re: Adding AS3 support to 3rd party editors - legal question I see what you mean, I guess I am just confused on why it would matter if someone went through the site and manually typed out all the info or if they were able to write a script that could do it automatically. The information is there, why would it matter who/what accesses it? Also just to clarify, the way I understand it the files would only need to be generated once; the screen scraping would not be something the app did as part of its operation. Thanks, Ben --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED]ups.com, Adam Dorritie [EMAIL PROTECTED].. wrote: On 8/3/06, ben.clinkinbeard ben.clinkinbeard@... wrote: Thanks for the reply, Matt. If this is not ok, what would be acceptable methods for accomplishing things like code completion in third party editors? Obviously, doing this requires knowledge of the structure of all AS3 classes and Livedocs seems like the best/only 'open' and free to the public source of this information. I really don't think any serious developer would consider an editor adequate without this functionality. I think that you're confusing 2 separate issues. The first is whether you can configure an editor to recognize (highlight, complete, whatever) ActionScript code using information obtained from publicly available documentation. The answer to this, as far as I know, is absolutely. The second issue, and the one which I believe that Matt has concerns about, is whether or not you can obtain the data you need to enable this feature by screen-scraping Adobe documentation. I can see potential issues with that. Manually enter the AS3 information into your editor and I would bet that you would be fine. Adam __._,_.___ -- Flexcoders Mailing List FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt Search Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com SPONSORED LINKS Web site design development Computer software development Software design and development Macromedia flex Software development best practice YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "flexcoders" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
[flexcoders] Re: Adding AS3 support to 3rd party editors - legal question
Thanks Matt, The goal is definitely to have the editor understand the AS3 format, but in the discussion we had, the problem we saw was the lack of source for the top-level and flash.* classes. As far as I can tell, the only source provided with the SDK is the mx.* packages and classes. Am I missing something? I don't think the editor's developers (I am not one of them) have any desire to compete with Flex Builder, they simply want to provide AS3 coding support. As far as I know, they have no plans to integrate MXML support into the editor. Thanks again for your replies and I will look forward to any further clarifications you can provide. Ben --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, Matt Chotin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I see what you're saying now. I'm not sure that would be the end of the world (the lawyer canceled the meeting so I won't get to talk to him till next week) but a more traditional approach would be to get your editor to understand the AS3 source format. Since we ship the source in the SDK you could just parse that and get all the information you need. I think understanding the source format is going to be more flexible than manually entering information from livedocs. Of course the real thing to do is understand the bytecode format, but we haven't documented that as of yet. I have asked legal for help in getting an official answer to What can I use from the SDK if I wanted to write my own IDE?. It will be a few days before I can answer that, but I can tell you that the spirit of our EULA is not meant to prevent you from doing that. So we are not trying to throw up legal roadblocks to you building an editor. Which is not to say we're actively looking for competitors to start up when we're still trying to sell Flex Builder ;-) Matt From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of ben.clinkinbeard Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2006 1:33 PM To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: [flexcoders] Re: Adding AS3 support to 3rd party editors - legal question I see what you mean, I guess I am just confused on why it would matter if someone went through the site and manually typed out all the info or if they were able to write a script that could do it automatically. The information is there, why would it matter who/what accesses it? Also just to clarify, the way I understand it the files would only need to be generated once; the screen scraping would not be something the app did as part of its operation. Thanks, Ben --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com mailto:flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com , Adam Dorritie adorritie@ wrote: On 8/3/06, ben.clinkinbeard ben.clinkinbeard@ wrote: Thanks for the reply, Matt. If this is not ok, what would be acceptable methods for accomplishing things like code completion in third party editors? Obviously, doing this requires knowledge of the structure of all AS3 classes and Livedocs seems like the best/only 'open' and free to the public source of this information. I really don't think any serious developer would consider an editor adequate without this functionality. I think that you're confusing 2 separate issues. The first is whether you can configure an editor to recognize (highlight, complete, whatever) ActionScript code using information obtained from publicly available documentation. The answer to this, as far as I know, is absolutely. The second issue, and the one which I believe that Matt has concerns about, is whether or not you can obtain the data you need to enable this feature by screen-scraping Adobe documentation. I can see potential issues with that. Manually enter the AS3 information into your editor and I would bet that you would be fine. Adam -- Flexcoders Mailing List FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt Search Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [flexcoders] Re: Adding AS3 support to 3rd party editors - legal question
On Friday 04 August 2006 06:55, Matt Chotin wrote: the SDK you could just parse that and get all the information you need. The soon-to-be-release AS3Doc tool may help here, of course. -- Tom Chiverton This email is sent for and on behalf of Halliwells LLP. Halliwells LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales under registered number OC307980 whose registered office address is at St James's Court Brown Street Manchester M2 2JF. A list of members is available for inspection at the registered office. Any reference to a partner in relation to Halliwells LLP means a member of Halliwells LLP. Regulated by the Law Society. CONFIDENTIALITY This email is intended only for the use of the addressee named above and may be confidential or legally privileged. If you are not the addressee you must not read it and must not use any information contained in nor copy it nor inform any person other than Halliwells LLP or the addressee of its existence or contents. If you have received this email in error please delete it and notify Halliwells LLP IT Department on 0870 365 8008. For more information about Halliwells LLP visit www.halliwells.com. -- Flexcoders Mailing List FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt Search Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [flexcoders] Re: Adding AS3 support to 3rd party editors - legal question
On Thursday 03 August 2006 05:45, Matt Chotin wrote: don't think scraping the livedocs is kosher, but let me get back to you. But providing a tool that lets users generate their own documentation (for a 3rd party editor or whatever) by scraping the livedocs site, might be ? Or just pointing to a local copy of the downloaded docs ? -- Tom Chiverton This email is sent for and on behalf of Halliwells LLP. Halliwells LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales under registered number OC307980 whose registered office address is at St James's Court Brown Street Manchester M2 2JF. A list of members is available for inspection at the registered office. Any reference to a partner in relation to Halliwells LLP means a member of Halliwells LLP. Regulated by the Law Society. CONFIDENTIALITY This email is intended only for the use of the addressee named above and may be confidential or legally privileged. If you are not the addressee you must not read it and must not use any information contained in nor copy it nor inform any person other than Halliwells LLP or the addressee of its existence or contents. If you have received this email in error please delete it and notify Halliwells LLP IT Department on 0870 365 8008. For more information about Halliwells LLP visit www.halliwells.com. -- Flexcoders Mailing List FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt Search Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [flexcoders] Re: Adding AS3 support to 3rd party editors - legal question
On Thursday 03 August 2006 05:45, Matt Chotin wrote: don't think scraping the livedocs is kosher, but let me get back to you. But providing a tool that lets users generate their own documentation (for a 3rd party editor or whatever) by scraping the livedocs site, might be ? -- Tom Chiverton This email is sent for and on behalf of Halliwells LLP. Halliwells LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales under registered number OC307980 whose registered office address is at St James's Court Brown Street Manchester M2 2JF. A list of members is available for inspection at the registered office. Any reference to a partner in relation to Halliwells LLP means a member of Halliwells LLP. Regulated by the Law Society. CONFIDENTIALITY This email is intended only for the use of the addressee named above and may be confidential or legally privileged. If you are not the addressee you must not read it and must not use any information contained in nor copy it nor inform any person other than Halliwells LLP or the addressee of its existence or contents. If you have received this email in error please delete it and notify Halliwells LLP IT Department on 0870 365 8008. For more information about Halliwells LLP visit www.halliwells.com. -- Flexcoders Mailing List FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt Search Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[flexcoders] Re: Adding AS3 support to 3rd party editors - legal question
Thanks for the reply, Matt. If this is not ok, what would be acceptable methods for accomplishing things like code completion in third party editors? Obviously, doing this requires knowledge of the structure of all AS3 classes and Livedocs seems like the best/only 'open' and free to the public source of this information. I really don't think any serious developer would consider an editor adequate without this functionality. Thanks, Ben --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, Matt Chotin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have a phone call with our lawyer tomorrow, I'll ask him. Offhand I don't think scraping the livedocs is kosher, but let me get back to you. Matt From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of ben.clinkinbeard Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2006 5:34 AM To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: [flexcoders] Re: Adding AS3 support to 3rd party editors - legal question Anyone? Is there a different place I should be asking this? Thanks, Ben --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com mailto:flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com , ben.clinkinbeard ben.clinkinbeard@ wrote: Dear Adobe, I was recently having a discussion about adding AS3 support (code completion, type checking, etc) to a 3rd party editor and a legal/copyright/license question came up that I am hoping to get a definitive answer to. The question is basically whether or not its ok to create files required by the editor by scraping the language ref pages available on LiveDocs. It seems to me that this would be fine since (a) the pages are freely available to the public and (b) the SDK was released for free to encourage adoption and things like code completion are more or less requirements for an editor to be considered a legitimate development environment. Is my thinking correct? Thanks, Ben http://www.returnundefined.com/ http://www.returnundefined.com/ -- Flexcoders Mailing List FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt Search Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [flexcoders] Re: Adding AS3 support to 3rd party editors - legal question
On 8/3/06, ben.clinkinbeard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks for the reply, Matt. If this is not ok, what would be acceptable methods for accomplishing things like code completion in third party editors? Obviously, doing this requires knowledge of the structure of all AS3 classes and Livedocs seems like the best/only 'open' and free to the public source of this information. I really don't think any serious developer would consider an editor adequate without this functionality. I think that you're confusing 2 separate issues. The first is whether you can configure an editor to recognize (highlight, complete, whatever) ActionScript code using information obtained from publicly available documentation. The answer to this, as far as I know, is absolutely. The second issue, and the one which I believe that Matt has concerns about, is whether or not you can obtain the data you need to enable this feature by screen-scraping Adobe documentation. I can see potential issues with that. Manually enter the AS3 information into your editor and I would bet that you would be fine. Adam -- Flexcoders Mailing List FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt Search Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[flexcoders] Re: Adding AS3 support to 3rd party editors - legal question
Anyone? Is there a different place I should be asking this? Thanks, Ben --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, ben.clinkinbeard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Adobe, I was recently having a discussion about adding AS3 support (code completion, type checking, etc) to a 3rd party editor and a legal/copyright/license question came up that I am hoping to get a definitive answer to. The question is basically whether or not its ok to create files required by the editor by scraping the language ref pages available on LiveDocs. It seems to me that this would be fine since (a) the pages are freely available to the public and (b) the SDK was released for free to encourage adoption and things like code completion are more or less requirements for an editor to be considered a legitimate development environment. Is my thinking correct? Thanks, Ben http://www.returnundefined.com/ -- Flexcoders Mailing List FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt Search Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [flexcoders] Re: Adding AS3 support to 3rd party editors - legal question
ben.clinkinbeard wrote: Anyone? Is there a different place I should be asking this? Given that this isn't an Adobe sponsored list, and I doubt even the adobe people on this list are willing to answer legal questions.. probably not :) But you can always hope for an answer. Otherwise, a phone call to Adobe's legal department might yield better results. Maybe someone will release a tag library for homesite. hah :) Rick -- Flexcoders Mailing List FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt Search Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [flexcoders] Re: Adding AS3 support to 3rd party editors - legal question
I have a phone call with our lawyer tomorrow, Ill ask him. Offhand I dont think scraping the livedocs is kosher, but let me get back to you. Matt From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of ben.clinkinbeard Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2006 5:34 AM To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: [flexcoders] Re: Adding AS3 support to 3rd party editors - legal question Anyone? Is there a different place I should be asking this? Thanks, Ben --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED]ups.com, ben.clinkinbeard ben.clinkinbeard@... wrote: Dear Adobe, I was recently having a discussion about adding AS3 support (code completion, type checking, etc) to a 3rd party editor and a legal/copyright/license question came up that I am hoping to get a definitive answer to. The question is basically whether or not its ok to create files required by the editor by scraping the language ref pages available on LiveDocs. It seems to me that this would be fine since (a) the pages are freely available to the public and (b) the SDK was released for free to encourage adoption and things like code completion are more or less requirements for an editor to be considered a legitimate development environment. Is my thinking correct? Thanks, Ben http://www.returnundefined.com/ __._,_.___ -- Flexcoders Mailing List FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt Search Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com SPONSORED LINKS Web site design development Computer software development Software design and development Macromedia flex Software development best practice YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "flexcoders" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
