Re: [flexcoders] Re: DB access in Apollo
btw, the way this thing works is by feature request (voting system). at least at the company i work for. so if you aren't asking for it ask for it now. http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=wishform On 3/9/07, dorkie dork from dorktown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It is a must have IMO. I thought it was already going to be built in. Lets say you have a client that says we don't have database support but you can use files, XML or shared objects. How would that limit your application? If you needed a database you would have to go online to get it defeating the purpose of Apollo's goal of desktop development. There are already apps in development that would use a database: - Java Docs Generator (in dev) - documents your code, stores and updates java docs in db - Project management software (in dev) - keeps track of tasks, projects - Photo management software - accesses the filesystem like Adobe Bridge, search and sort - Music software (already created by an Adobe engineer) - keep track and sort mp3's (itunes, windows media player, winamp, etc use their own built in db) - DVD collection - keeps track of all your dvds or cds - CD demos - pass out demos on cd of your application may need db access Really, think of all the applications on your computer that use a database. Apollo is a desktop application builder. Someone may say you say you can use xml but when you add anymore than a few collections of data, you start to rebuilt a database and try and make xml do what a database is supposed to. It is a sloppy hack. Here's another thing. You come out with Apollo and it doesn't have DB support. You get Apollo adopted after a year at 50% penetration but the big huge apps in development out there need db support. So these can't come out yet. They end up waiting until Apollo 2 is here but also has more then 50% adoption rate. Now its 2 years later. People are frustrated. You could do that or you could push back your release date a month or two now. I would rather wait. I don't care which database you choose as long as there is some kind of database in this release. my 2 cents, dorkie rioting in the streets dork from dorktown On 3/9/07, Eric Guesdon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I mean nothing, i just asked every one if something like SharedObject (of course more robust and larger) should answer to the database subject. What do you think about that… from my point of view a system like sharedobject should be enough I don't know if you downloaded New York Times application (unfortunately based on wpf) but they synchronized all their news each time you start the application. Of course it represents a large quantity of data but I'm not sure they use a local database for that Let me know Regards Eric -- *De :* flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *De la part de* Merrill, Jason *Envoy� :* vendredi 9 mars 2007 17:54 *� :* flexcoders@yahoogroups.com *Objet :* RE: [flexcoders] Re: DB access in Apollo SharedObject. You mean those little tiny 128k or whatever Shared Objects like from the Flash player or do you mean Apollo will have a more robust larger Shared Object? Jason Merrill Bank of America Global Technology Operations Learning Leadership Development eTools Multimedia Team
Re: [flexcoders] Re: DB access in Apollo
dorkie, dorkie dork from dorktown wrote: btw, the way this thing works is by feature request (voting system). at least at the company i work for. so if you aren't asking for it ask for it now. http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=wishform On 3/9/07, dorkie dork from dorktown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It is a must have IMO. I thought it was already going to be built in. Lets say you have a client that says we don't have database support but you can use files, XML or shared objects. How would that limit your application? If you needed a database you would have to go online to get it defeating the purpose of Apollo's goal of desktop development. Your overstating the importance of a db on the client. Bringing the desktop and the 'net together is one of its(Apollo's) strong points. At least thats what it seems like from where i'm sitting. There are already apps in development that would use a database: - Java Docs Generator (in dev) - documents your code, stores and updates java docs in db You wouldnt want to store the documents in a DB, thats just dumb. Metadata perhaps, but there are other options. - Project management software (in dev) - keeps track of tasks, projects This information you would probably not want stored in a client DB, more likely this would be stored on a DB server and accessed from the client. Usually more than one person wants to see how a project is tracking. If you must have it on a client(no server) then, use a xml document, at least its portable, that way you could send it to another person so they could see the project details, and you can render it using XSLT in any format you like. - Photo management software - accesses the filesystem like Adobe Bridge, search and sort Nah not really, simply use the filesystem to store the assets(images) and store the metadata in a file that points to the filesystem. Same as iTunes. You sort and search the metadata not the assets. - Music software (already created by an Adobe engineer) - keep track and sort mp3's (itunes, windows media player, winamp, etc use their own built in db) iTunes uses an xml file.. Dunno about the others. iTunes connects to the 'net when it needs access to a DB, that hasnt stopped it being a huge success as far as I can tell. So, a client side DB is not as critical to me, as it to you. Sure it might come in handy, but I can live without it. cheers, shaun
Re: [flexcoders] Re: DB access in Apollo
Wow Shaun, Lots of stuff to vehemently disagree with. Your overstating the importance of a db on the client. Well, he may be. But let me just say this. For the last 20 years, most desktop apps have use a client side database. Generally in the MS world it used to be a library called Jet that was an embeddable version of Access. And almost every pc based app used it. So the idea that Dorkie is saying something out of the mainstream of thinking as it relates to client side development is just wrong. Bringing the desktop and the 'net together is one of its(Apollo's) strong points. At least thats what it seems like from where i'm sitting. Translation - bringing local file storage to web applications is Apollo's strong point. What we are arguing about it *how* best to do the local storage. You make your point as though the database issue is not relevant to bringing desktop and 'net together. What other important issues are there in this regard aside from storage? There are already apps in development that would use a database: - Java Docs Generator (in dev) - documents your code, stores and updates java docs in db You wouldnt want to store the documents in a DB, thats just dumb. Metadata perhaps, but there are other options. No, is isn't dumb. It might be the right solution sometimes and sometimes not. But its not dumb. Databases provide integrity which you dont get with file system storage. This is a design decision and trade off and it is not a clear cut decision. - Project management software (in dev) - keeps track of tasks, projects This information you would probably not want stored in a client DB, more likely this would be stored on a DB server and accessed from the client. Usually more than one person wants to see how a project is tracking. If you must have it on a client(no server) then, use a xml document, at least its portable, that way you could send it to another person so they could see the project details, and you can render it using XSLT in any format you like. The entire point of Apollo is disconnected use with synchronization. You seem to be arguing with your comment that for some apps this is a bad idea. NEWSFLASH: You dont need Apollo if everything is going to be server based. To your point about XSLT this is just silly. The model you are describing is not an app model its a web page model. Imagine saying to microsoft hey guys lets just use XSLT to display those PERT or GANTT charts. - Photo management software - accesses the filesystem like Adobe Bridge, search and sort Nah not really, simply use the filesystem to store the assets(images) and store the metadata in a file that points to the filesystem. Same as iTunes. You sort and search the metadata not the assets. I cant say i'm sure about this - but I am *fairly* confident, that the iTunes XML file is an output format and that it also uses a native file format for its actual operation and management. I think it just periodically exports the database in XML format. But whether it does or not, the issue is whether you want a RAM based application, or a disk based application. Plain and Simple. Despite your implied contention, it is a well established notion that there is value in storing your data on a hard disk and only changing the bits that need to be changed instead of writing out the whole file after every modification. More importantly, deveoping this way is *much* more work for table based applications. You have to create your own indexes for sorting, etc. SQL *does* make life easier, and that is the point of all this isnt it? - Music software (already created by an Adobe engineer) - keep track and sort mp3's (itunes, windows media player, winamp, etc use their own built in db) iTunes uses an xml file.. Dunno about the others. iTunes connects to the 'net when it needs access to a DB, that hasnt stopped it being a huge success as far as I can tell. What a silly comment. itunes is successful, therefore there is no need for disk based applications!? So, a client side DB is not as critical to me, as it to you. Sure it might come in handy, but I can live without it. Well, this is the first thing you have said that makes sense to me. It is clear that depending on what you are developing and how you like to develop that your mileage may vary. But I guarantee you this. If I had a database and all you had was the flash api and text file storage, that for any kind of data intensive application I would be able to write a more robust application - or at least the data handling piece, and I would be able to write it faster than you would with just file storage. Regards, Hank
RE: [flexcoders] Re: DB access in Apollo
I don't it should be that difficult to built database connectivity like zinc uses. That way it can communicate with stand alone dbs like ms access, etc... Thanks, Rob -Original Message- From: Troy Gilbert [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Sent: 3/9/07 12:30 PM Subject: Re: [flexcoders] Re: DB access in Apollo I think that if Adobe really wants to bill Apollo as taking the best-of web technology and putting it on the desktop, then they need to seriously consider including a DB that speaks SQL. Personally, I think it would be *fantastic* if Apollo was essentially an embedded webserver, i.e. stripped down Apache (or similar) where I could choose to generate documents using PHP and have a DB backend like MySQL. Basically Zinc + Flex + WAMP, all in one executable. Now *that* would be cool... Troy. On 09 Mar 2007 08:57:58 -0800, Matt Chotin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Apollo has filesystem access, you can store whatever you want. But a DB is under consideration, no guarantees but it hasn't been ruled out. -- *From:* flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Merrill, Jason *Sent:* Friday, March 09, 2007 8:49 AM *To:* flexcoders@yahoogroups.com *Subject:* RE: [flexcoders] Re: DB access in Apollo SharedObject. You mean those little tiny 128k or whatever Shared Objects like from the Flash player or do you mean Apollo will have a more robust larger Shared Object? Jason Merrill Bank of America Global Technology Operations Learning Leadership Development eTools Multimedia Team
RE: [flexcoders] Re: DB access in Apollo
I don't it should be that difficult to built database connectivity like zinc uses. That way it can communicate with stand alone dbs like ms access, etc... But then you have to deal with setting up installing that database on the user end. If it was built in to Apollo, it would be much easier. Jason Merrill Bank of America Global Technology Operations Learning Leadership Development eTools Multimedia Team http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=12286167/grpspId=1705007207/ msgId=67417/stime=1173535274/nc1=4438988/nc2=3848643/nc3=3
Re: [flexcoders] Re: DB access in Apollo
i agree. it should be built in. at some point the Apollo team realized they needed to include built in support for HTML container and support css, etc. and not rely on outside technology being there. thats its strong point in that if it is built in we don't have to worry about installing something else for the client. On 3/10/07, Merrill, Jason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't it should be that difficult to built database connectivity like zinc uses. That way it can communicate with stand alone dbs like ms access, etc... But then you have to deal with setting up installing that database on the user end. If it was built in to Apollo, it would be much easier. Jason Merrill Bank of America Global Technology Operations Learning Leadership Development eTools Multimedia Team
RE: [flexcoders] Re: DB access in Apollo
Please don't for this feature, we already know enough of the use-cases. Matt From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of dorkie dork from dorktown Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2007 1:39 AM To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [flexcoders] Re: DB access in Apollo btw, the way this thing works is by feature request (voting system). at least at the company i work for. so if you aren't asking for it ask for it now. http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=wishform http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=wishform On 3/9/07, dorkie dork from dorktown [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It is a must have IMO. I thought it was already going to be built in. Lets say you have a client that says we don't have database support but you can use files, XML or shared objects. How would that limit your application? If you needed a database you would have to go online to get it defeating the purpose of Apollo's goal of desktop development. There are already apps in development that would use a database: - Java Docs Generator (in dev) - documents your code, stores and updates java docs in db - Project management software (in dev) - keeps track of tasks, projects - Photo management software - accesses the filesystem like Adobe Bridge, search and sort - Music software (already created by an Adobe engineer) - keep track and sort mp3's (itunes, windows media player, winamp, etc use their own built in db) - DVD collection - keeps track of all your dvds or cds - CD demos - pass out demos on cd of your application may need db access Really, think of all the applications on your computer that use a database. Apollo is a desktop application builder. Someone may say you say you can use xml but when you add anymore than a few collections of data, you start to rebuilt a database and try and make xml do what a database is supposed to. It is a sloppy hack. Here's another thing. You come out with Apollo and it doesn't have DB support. You get Apollo adopted after a year at 50% penetration but the big huge apps in development out there need db support. So these can't come out yet. They end up waiting until Apollo 2 is here but also has more then 50% adoption rate. Now its 2 years later. People are frustrated. You could do that or you could push back your release date a month or two now. I would rather wait. I don't care which database you choose as long as there is some kind of database in this release. my 2 cents, dorkie rioting in the streets dork from dorktown On 3/9/07, Eric Guesdon [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I mean nothing, i just asked every one if something like SharedObject (of course more robust and larger) should answer to the database subject. What do you think about that… from my point of view a system like sharedobject should be enough I don't know if you downloaded New York Times application (unfortunately based on wpf) but they synchronized all their news each time you start the application. Of course it represents a large quantity of data but I'm not sure they use a local database for that Let me know Regards Eric De : flexcoders@yahoogroups.com mailto:flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com mailto:flexcoders@yahoogroups.com ] De la part de Merrill, Jason Envoy� : vendredi 9 mars 2007 17:54 � : flexcoders@yahoogroups.com mailto:flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Objet : RE: [flexcoders] Re: DB access in Apollo SharedObject. You mean those little tiny 128k or whatever Shared Objects like from the Flash player or do you mean Apollo will have a more robust larger Shared Object? Jason Merrill Bank of America Global Technology Operations Learning Leadership Development eTools Multimedia Team
RE: [flexcoders] Re: DB access in Apollo
Hi to all, Im not sure we will need a database like you are talking about I would prefer something like Apollo:LocalDataBase / something like SharedObject (I hope to delegate security aspect to Apollo sandbox). I have some difficulties to believe that I need standard database capabilities do you plan to build application that will connected to hundred of thousand line of data? Personally I plan to build application that will frequently connected to the Enterprise IS that provide off-line capabilities, so I will need to safely store datas during 2-3 of perhaps 4 days not more due to data confidentialities . We will have to take care about synchronisation phase ., so I d like to use [managed] capabilities already exists in flex and fdms without to develop my own synchronisation engine client side Regards Eric _ De : flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] De la part de Samuel R. Neff Envoyé : jeudi 8 mars 2007 15:38 À : flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Objet : RE: [flexcoders] Re: DB access in Apollo my hosting company supports sqlite. no mention of it. Actually SQLite is included as standard in PHP5 already.
RE: [flexcoders] Re: DB access in Apollo
How much data could Apollo store locally when offline? I think this is where some of the concern lies around not having an integrated database availble in Apollo. Does anyone know? Shared objects at least in Flash player 9 are pretty limited in size. Does Apollo plan to store data locally in a Shared Object? Jason Merrill Bank of America Global Technology Operations Learning Leadership Development eTools Multimedia Team
Re: [flexcoders] Re: DB access in Apollo
This should be on the TOP priority how I'm suppose to make my app offline without a DB? This is not a should have.. its a must have. sqlite_count+=1; xD -- . m a r c o sa u g u s t o ; .eu vim para confundir e não para explicar!. . . - Chacrinha
Re: [flexcoders] Re: DB access in Apollo
On Friday 09 Mar 2007, . m a r c o s a u g u s t o wrote: This should be on the TOP priority how I'm suppose to make my app offline without a DB? SharedObject. -- Tom Chiverton Helping to administratively revolutionize compelling design-patterns On: http://thefalken.livejournal.com This email is sent for and on behalf of Halliwells LLP. Halliwells LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales under registered number OC307980 whose registered office address is at St James's Court Brown Street Manchester M2 2JF. A list of members is available for inspection at the registered office. Any reference to a partner in relation to Halliwells LLP means a member of Halliwells LLP. Regulated by the Law Society. CONFIDENTIALITY This email is intended only for the use of the addressee named above and may be confidential or legally privileged. If you are not the addressee you must not read it and must not use any information contained in nor copy it nor inform any person other than Halliwells LLP or the addressee of its existence or contents. If you have received this email in error please delete it and notify Halliwells LLP IT Department on 0870 365 8008. For more information about Halliwells LLP visit www.halliwells.com. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- See what's inside the new Yahoo! Groups email. http://us.click.yahoo.com/0It09A/bOaOAA/yQLSAA/nhFolB/TM ~- -- Flexcoders Mailing List FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt Search Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [flexcoders] Re: DB access in Apollo
SharedObject. You mean those little tiny 128k or whatever Shared Objects like from the Flash player or do you mean Apollo will have a more robust larger Shared Object? Jason Merrill Bank of America Global Technology Operations Learning Leadership Development eTools Multimedia Team
RE: [flexcoders] Re: DB access in Apollo
Apollo has filesystem access, you can store whatever you want. But a DB is under consideration, no guarantees but it hasn't been ruled out. From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Merrill, Jason Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 8:49 AM To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [flexcoders] Re: DB access in Apollo SharedObject. You mean those little tiny 128k or whatever Shared Objects like from the Flash player or do you mean Apollo will have a more robust larger Shared Object? Jason Merrill Bank of America Global Technology Operations Learning Leadership Development eTools Multimedia Team
RE: [flexcoders] Re: DB access in Apollo
I mean nothing, i just asked every one if something like SharedObject (of course more robust and larger) should answer to the database subject. What do you think about that from my point of view a system like sharedobject should be enough I dont know if you downloaded New York Times application (unfortunately based on wpf) but they synchronized all their news each time you start the application. Of course it represents a large quantity of data but Im not sure they use a local database for that Let me know Regards Eric _ De : flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] De la part de Merrill, Jason Envoyé : vendredi 9 mars 2007 17:54 À : flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Objet : RE: [flexcoders] Re: DB access in Apollo SharedObject. You mean those little tiny 128k or whatever Shared Objects like from the Flash player or do you mean Apollo will have a more robust larger Shared Object? Jason Merrill Bank of America Global Technology Operations Learning Leadership Development eTools Multimedia Team
Re: [flexcoders] Re: DB access in Apollo
If you are storing data with the File API, then there is no limit. mike chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] Merrill, Jason wrote: How much data could Apollo store locally when offline? I think this is where some of the concern lies around not having an integrated database availble in Apollo. Does anyone know? Shared objects at least in Flash player 9 are pretty limited in size. Does Apollo plan to store data locally in a Shared Object?
Re: [flexcoders] Re: DB access in Apollo
Shared Objects. File API. mike chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] . m a r c o s a u g u s t o wrote: This should be on the TOP priority how I'm suppose to make my app offline without a DB? This is not a should have.. its a must have. sqlite_count+=1; xD
RE: [flexcoders] Re: DB access in Apollo
Yeah, I know about those, but you're talking about creating files and reading them back - just seems like more work - so perhaps writing something like an XML file out and reading it back would have to do. I was thinking of something more native that didn't require as much serialization. Jason Merrill Bank of America Global Technology Operations Learning Leadership Development eTools Multimedia Team From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Chambers Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 12:36 PM To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [flexcoders] Re: DB access in Apollo Shared Objects. File API. mike chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:mesh%40adobe.com . m a r c o s a u g u s t o wrote: This should be on the TOP priority how I'm suppose to make my app offline without a DB? This is not a should have.. its a must have. sqlite_count+=1; xD
Re: [flexcoders] Re: DB access in Apollo
I think that if Adobe really wants to bill Apollo as taking the best-of web technology and putting it on the desktop, then they need to seriously consider including a DB that speaks SQL. Personally, I think it would be *fantastic* if Apollo was essentially an embedded webserver, i.e. stripped down Apache (or similar) where I could choose to generate documents using PHP and have a DB backend like MySQL. Basically Zinc + Flex + WAMP, all in one executable. Now *that* would be cool... Troy. On 09 Mar 2007 08:57:58 -0800, Matt Chotin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Apollo has filesystem access, you can store whatever you want. But a DB is under consideration, no guarantees but it hasn't been ruled out. -- *From:* flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Merrill, Jason *Sent:* Friday, March 09, 2007 8:49 AM *To:* flexcoders@yahoogroups.com *Subject:* RE: [flexcoders] Re: DB access in Apollo SharedObject. You mean those little tiny 128k or whatever Shared Objects like from the Flash player or do you mean Apollo will have a more robust larger Shared Object? Jason Merrill Bank of America Global Technology Operations Learning Leadership Development eTools Multimedia Team
Re: [flexcoders] Re: DB access in Apollo
It is a must have IMO. I thought it was already going to be built in. Lets say you have a client that says we don't have database support but you can use files, XML or shared objects. How would that limit your application? If you needed a database you would have to go online to get it defeating the purpose of Apollo's goal of desktop development. There are already apps in development that would use a database: - Java Docs Generator (in dev) - documents your code, stores and updates java docs in db - Project management software (in dev) - keeps track of tasks, projects - Photo management software - accesses the filesystem like Adobe Bridge, search and sort - Music software (already created by an Adobe engineer) - keep track and sort mp3's (itunes, windows media player, winamp, etc use their own built in db) - DVD collection - keeps track of all your dvds or cds - CD demos - pass out demos on cd of your application may need db access Really, think of all the applications on your computer that use a database. Apollo is a desktop application builder. Someone may say you say you can use xml but when you add anymore than a few collections of data, you start to rebuilt a database and try and make xml do what a database is supposed to. It is a sloppy hack. Here's another thing. You come out with Apollo and it doesn't have DB support. You get Apollo adopted after a year at 50% penetration but the big huge apps in development out there need db support. So these can't come out yet. They end up waiting until Apollo 2 is here but also has more then 50% adoption rate. Now its 2 years later. People are frustrated. You could do that or you could push back your release date a month or two now. I would rather wait. I don't care which database you choose as long as there is some kind of database in this release. my 2 cents, dorkie rioting in the streets dork from dorktown On 3/9/07, Eric Guesdon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I mean nothing, i just asked every one if something like SharedObject (of course more robust and larger) should answer to the database subject. What do you think about that… from my point of view a system like sharedobject should be enough I don't know if you downloaded New York Times application (unfortunately based on wpf) but they synchronized all their news each time you start the application. Of course it represents a large quantity of data but I'm not sure they use a local database for that Let me know Regards Eric -- *De :* flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *De la part de* Merrill, Jason *Envoy� :* vendredi 9 mars 2007 17:54 *� :* flexcoders@yahoogroups.com *Objet :* RE: [flexcoders] Re: DB access in Apollo SharedObject. You mean those little tiny 128k or whatever Shared Objects like from the Flash player or do you mean Apollo will have a more robust larger Shared Object? Jason Merrill Bank of America Global Technology Operations Learning Leadership Development eTools Multimedia Team
Re: {Disarmed} RE: [flexcoders] Re: DB access in Apollo
A lot of the apps I'm looking at have requirements to constant access to a fairly large amount of data. As an example, think about an online shared contact database for some kinds of agents, maybe real estate or sales people of some sort - they need to share and coordinate data online but where apollo would come in handy is allowing them to access their data and add to it while they're on the road. Creating new contacts and storing them until connectivity is available for syncing is ok, but they'd still need to be able to lookup someone they know is in the database. I can see using xml files or some equivalent as temporary storage, it just seems to me that if we're talking about real, useful offline apps with sometimes connectivity then some kind of db system more efficient than file storage would seem to make sense. I'm not sure i'm comfortable with the idea of cramming in an entire SQL engine or webserver, but at least something that can store data in an efficient format, that doesn't require line by line reading etc. Just my .02 Toby On 10/03/2007, at 4:56 , Merrill, Jason wrote: Yeah, I know about those, but you're talking about creating files and reading them back - just seems like more work - so perhaps writing something like an XML file out and reading it back would have to do. I was thinking of something more native that didn't require as much serialization. Jason Merrill Bank of America Global Technology Operations Learning Leadership Development eTools Multimedia Team From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Chambers Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 12:36 PM To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [flexcoders] Re: DB access in Apollo Shared Objects. File API. mike chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] . m a r c o s a u g u s t o wrote: This should be on the TOP priority how I'm suppose to make my app offline without a DB? This is not a should have.. its a must have. sqlite_count+=1; xD --- Life is poetry, write it in your own words --- Toby Tremayne Senior Technical Consultant Lyricist Software 0416 048 090 ICQ: 13107913
Re: [flexcoders] Re: DB access in Apollo
On Thursday 08 Mar 2007, dorkie dork from dorktown wrote: mysql is familiar and it is on nearly every online hosting company. if you want to port your app from desktop to online you don't have to rewrite your sql statements / queries. You should either be writing proper portable SQL, or using an abstraction layer to do it for you. my hosting company supports sqlite. no mention of it. With Apollo, it won't matter. -- Tom Chiverton Helping to advantageously synthesize virtual developments On: http://thefalken.livejournal.com This email is sent for and on behalf of Halliwells LLP. Halliwells LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales under registered number OC307980 whose registered office address is at St James's Court Brown Street Manchester M2 2JF. A list of members is available for inspection at the registered office. Any reference to a partner in relation to Halliwells LLP means a member of Halliwells LLP. Regulated by the Law Society. CONFIDENTIALITY This email is intended only for the use of the addressee named above and may be confidential or legally privileged. If you are not the addressee you must not read it and must not use any information contained in nor copy it nor inform any person other than Halliwells LLP or the addressee of its existence or contents. If you have received this email in error please delete it and notify Halliwells LLP IT Department on 0870 365 8008. For more information about Halliwells LLP visit www.halliwells.com. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Groups gets a make over. See the new email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/hOt0.A/lOaOAA/yQLSAA/nhFolB/TM ~- -- Flexcoders Mailing List FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt Search Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [flexcoders] Re: DB access in Apollo
my hosting company supports sqlite. no mention of it. Actually SQLite is included as standard in PHP5 already.
[flexcoders] Re: DB access in Apollo
I'm working on Flex app that would be great for Apollo but it too requires DB access and I don't see how the app would ever work unless Apollo includes an integrated DB (I vote for MySQL too). I think that Apollo would generate a lot more interest if an integrated DB was included sooner rather than later. Paul --- Paul Whitelock Denver, Colorado --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, steve_benfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So if we install our own DB with Apollo, how does Apollo communicate with that DB? From what I've heard there is no native DLL access in Apollo, so how is this going to work? Will I also have to install an app server as well to recieve web service calls? Our app requires a complex data set and occasionally connected clients--Apollo seems a great way to do this but the DB access on the client is an unknown to us. Anyone have insight into this? Thanks. --Steve
[flexcoders] Re: DB access in Apollo
Hi all, If i remember corectly, Mike Chambers sad in his Flex presentation that its possible to write drivers is AS3 for direct DB communication. Anyone tryed that? Also, Apollo direct DB comm would be a great addition to the package. --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, David Mendels [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Some version of this will happen. The question is when. It certainly will not be in the first public developer betas of Apollo. And I can't guarantee when it will be in Apollo (later beta? 1.0? 1.X?), but we all agree it should and will happen. :) -David Apollo From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rich Tretola Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 9:03 PM To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [flexcoders] DB access in Apollo This is what I am hoping for. Rich On 3/2/07, Gordon Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The Apollo team is considering integrating a SQL database into the Apollo runtime. - Gordon From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:flexcoders@yahoogroups.com http://yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Shannon Hicks Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 7:00 AM To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [flexcoders] DB access in Apollo Don't forget that Apollo will let us use our own installers... There's no reason you couldn't install your own database in addition to the Apollo application. Shan From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:flexcoders@yahoogroups.com http://yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Abdul Qabiz Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 12:20 PM To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [flexcoders] DB access in Apollo I can imagine of doing that with Apollo. I would post soon . On 3/1/07, Russell Sprague [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:rsprague%40infusion-studios.com wrote: I noticed a while back that there wasn't any kind of local database access in Apollos feature list. Is this something that will/has changed, or are the devs thinking this will be a community contribution? It seems to me that DB access is a big part of desktop apps, I have built a couple using Flash, Zinc, and MySQL. It would be a shame to not be able to use Apollo for some projects because of this issue. Hopefully someone can tell me that I just missed it when Adobe added this to the feature list. Russ -- Rich Tretola mx:EverythingFlex/ http://www.EverythingFlex.com http://www.EverythingFlex.com
[flexcoders] Re: DB access in Apollo
I was looking for something more along the lines of: MySQL supports this particular SQL dialect, or has this feature which make development so much easier, etc...
Re: [flexcoders] Re: DB access in Apollo
+1 sqlite for me as well. An embedded SQL database would add tremendous value in the B2B custom app realm where I live. -Andy
[flexcoders] Re: DB access in Apollo
I think it really depends on the application. I don't think there is any 1 database that could cover even 10% of the use cases. If they do bundle a database it would have to be something small and easily replaceable, because everyone will want to replace it, no matter what it is. Pd --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, hank williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 3/7/07, Impudent1 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: hank williams wrote: +1 sqlite. MySQL is impractical to put on everyones computer in the country. Hmm, well considering Adobe already does it with bridge I disagree :) hmm... I dont have bridge on my computer. Dont even know what it is. So I guess I would have to disagree that it is on every computer, whereas flash and therefore apollo almost certainly will be :) That said I have never played with sqlite and will have to take look at it. From the faqs, I did see that only one process can write to the db at a time vs mysql being able to do multiple processes, so depending on what type of apps your creating if concurrency matters I would think mysql a better choice. I do love the simplicity of the sqlite concept tho :) mysql is clearly more robust - and complex - than sqlite, which is exactly the point. Its overkill, with the single benefit of being familiar. But you will not be able to port code since sql is always tied into the language that is used to access it, like php, or java or whatever. AS3 will be a new language environment for accessing databases, so there will not be much portability other than data files, which isnt much of a benefit. Regards, Hank
Re: [flexcoders] Re: DB access in Apollo
On 3/7/07, Paul DeCoursey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think it really depends on the application. I don't think there is any 1 database that could cover even 10% of the use cases. really? Not even 10% eh. So in the server market, MySQL, Oracle, MsSQL dont cover the majority of use cases with huge overlap? I think the marketshare among those apps is well over 70 or 80% of the market. In desktop applications, that microsoft library Jet (I think is/was the name) used to have near 100% of the embedded app market. Of course I dont know what the state of that market is anymore. If they do bundle a database it would have to be something small and easily replaceable, because everyone will want to replace it, no matter what it is. I think the exact opposite of what you say is true. These databases all do basically the same thing and whatever is bundled is what people use. For any of these choices the performance will be exellent in the context of a single user app, and almost *no one* will be motivated to customize. I can think of very few things that any of the real contenders couldnt do, that large numbers of people would want to do. In fact Jason Williams has kinda proved that by asking (twice) what specific benefits MySQL had and receiving *no* answers. Regards, Hank
Re: [flexcoders] Re: DB access in Apollo
mysql is familiar and it is on nearly every online hosting company. if you want to port your app from desktop to online you don't have to rewrite your sql statements / queries. just point to the online db. so portability. i dont want to learn another db. i know phpmyadmin and mysql. i dont know if my hosting company supports sqlite. no mention of it. can adobe do both? i'd rather have either than neither or none. i know that is the first thing i'll need when start apollo apps if its not included. then i have to wait for apollo 2 and apollo 2 penetration rates. take a little more time, i can wait, and get db access in to it. On 3/7/07, hank williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 3/7/07, Paul DeCoursey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think it really depends on the application. I don't think there is any 1 database that could cover even 10% of the use cases. really? Not even 10% eh. So in the server market, MySQL, Oracle, MsSQL dont cover the majority of use cases with huge overlap? I think the marketshare among those apps is well over 70 or 80% of the market. In desktop applications, that microsoft library Jet (I think is/was the name) used to have near 100% of the embedded app market. Of course I dont know what the state of that market is anymore. If they do bundle a database it would have to be something small and easily replaceable, because everyone will want to replace it, no matter what it is. I think the exact opposite of what you say is true. These databases all do basically the same thing and whatever is bundled is what people use. For any of these choices the performance will be exellent in the context of a single user app, and almost *no one* will be motivated to customize. I can think of very few things that any of the real contenders couldnt do, that large numbers of people would want to do. In fact Jason Williams has kinda proved that by asking (twice) what specific benefits MySQL had and receiving *no* answers. Regards, Hank -- Flexcoders Mailing List FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt Search Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links
[flexcoders] Re: DB access in Apollo
So if we install our own DB with Apollo, how does Apollo communicate with that DB? From what I've heard there is no native DLL access in Apollo, so how is this going to work? Will I also have to install an app server as well to recieve web service calls? Our app requires a complex data set and occasionally connected clients--Apollo seems a great way to do this but the DB access on the client is an unknown to us. Anyone have insight into this? Thanks. --Steve --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, Abdul Qabiz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Great. eLearning applications and occasionally connected clients would benefit from it. Some projects in India, for rural-internet-connectivity, can be done faster. Where some computers in different villages get connected to Internet (via WIFI access-point setup on moving school bus) for an hour or so, during that time they download data for all requested queries. People benefit from it even after latency of one-day. With Apollo I can imagine a kiosk, which would allow to do such things. I would love to contribute for this good cause. Please let me know, if any of you are already working on something like that. -abdul On 3/3/07, Gordon Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The Apollo team is considering integrating a SQL database into the Apollo runtime. - Gordon -- *From:* flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Shannon Hicks *Sent:* Friday, March 02, 2007 7:00 AM *To:* flexcoders@yahoogroups.com *Subject:* RE: [flexcoders] DB access in Apollo Don't forget that Apollo will let us use our own installers There's no reason you couldn't install your own database in addition to the Apollo application. Shan *From:* flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Abdul Qabiz *Sent:* Thursday, March 01, 2007 12:20 PM *To:* flexcoders@yahoogroups.com *Subject:* Re: [flexcoders] DB access in Apollo I can imagine of doing that with Apollo. I would post soon . On 3/1/07, Russell Sprague [EMAIL PROTECTED]rsprague%40infusion-studios.com wrote: I noticed a while back that there wasn't any kind of local database access in Apollos feature list. Is this something that will/has changed, or are the devs thinking this will be a community contribution? It seems to me that DB access is a big part of desktop apps, I have built a couple using Flash, Zinc, and MySQL. It would be a shame to not be able to use Apollo for some projects because of this issue. Hopefully someone can tell me that I just missed it when Adobe added this to the feature list. Russ
[flexcoders] Re: DB access in Apollo
--- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, Impudent1 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Russell Sprague wrote: I vote for MySQL. Agreed Impudent1 LeapFrog Productions Are there specific reasons why you want or need MySQL?
Re: [flexcoders] Re: DB access in Apollo
Having a stand-alone environment that can connect to a database is handy for lots of kinds of applications. If we're having a wish list here, how about the ability to use jdbc drivers and include some local db + drivers, maybe derby or sqllite. Maybe I'm having flashbacks (pardon the pun) to my powerbuilder days but gui + database access on the client is an excellent RAD platform. jason_williams_mm wrote: --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, Impudent1 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Russell Sprague wrote: I vote for MySQL. Agreed Impudent1 LeapFrog Productions Are there specific reasons why you want or need MySQL?
Re: [flexcoders] Re: DB access in Apollo
familiarity for me, my vote as well. and if i need to ever take my db online i can point to mysql online db. On 3/6/07, jason_williams_mm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, Impudent1 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Russell Sprague wrote: I vote for MySQL. Agreed Impudent1 LeapFrog Productions Are there specific reasons why you want or need MySQL? -- Flexcoders Mailing List FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt Search Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links
