Re: [Flightgear-devel] 737 project

2006-02-06 Thread Major A

 You can already scroll 2D panels (like the 737's) using the 
 shift+f5/f6/f7/f8 combinations. Took me months to discover this little 
 secret, which makes the 737 much nicer, since the autopilot engage and 
 disengage buttons are offscreen by default...

Excellent, thanks! I'll try the 737 again when I get home -- haven't
been able to use the A/P so far because the buttons did nothing when
clicked...

 The Concorde has a 3D cockpit, so you can just turn your head to see 
 everything.

Great, I'll try that too.

What do you zoom with when the pointer is in view mode? x/X? Maybe
it's already like this, but would the mouse wheel not be a perfect
control for zooming when the pointer is in view mode?

  Andras


---
This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files
for problems?  Stop!  Download the new AJAX search engine that makes
searching your log files as easy as surfing the  web.  DOWNLOAD SPLUNK!
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=103432bid=230486dat=121642
___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel


[Flightgear-devel] Re: [PATCH][RFC] speech synthesis with festival

2006-02-06 Thread Melchior FRANZ
* Vassilii Khachaturov -- Sunday 05 February 2006 18:51:
 Would it be difficult to include an urgent shut-up interface?

We could actually have two or three channels that could speak
at the same time. One for background voice (ATC), and one
for a foreground voice (instructor, copilot). We can even
have one with slightly increased volume  pitch (We will
all die, whaaa ...!), or make volume/pitch adjustable etc.
It just doesn't look as if there's much interest.

m.


---
This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files
for problems?  Stop!  Download the new AJAX search engine that makes
searching your log files as easy as surfing the  web.  DOWNLOAD SPLUNK!
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=103432bid=230486dat=121642
___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel


Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: [PATCH][RFC] speech synthesis with festival

2006-02-06 Thread Erik Hofman

Melchior FRANZ wrote:


It just doesn't look as if there's much interest.


The original code was written for/by John Wojnaroski so you might be 
asking this a the wrong time. Personally I feel it would be a nice addition.


Erik

--
http://www.ehtw.info (Dutch)Future of Enschede Airport Twente
http://www.ehofman.com/fgfs FlightGear Flight Simulator
http://www.cafepress.com/fgfs_flightsim  FlightGear Art


---
This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files
for problems?  Stop!  Download the new AJAX search engine that makes
searching your log files as easy as surfing the  web.  DOWNLOAD SPLUNK!
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=103432bid=230486dat=121642
___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel


Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: [PATCH][RFC] speech synthesis with festival

2006-02-06 Thread Josh Babcock
Melchior FRANZ wrote:
 Would be nice
 if the b29 copilot reported gear down etc., or the bo105 copilot
 gave some navigation hints (I think we are too far already. :-)

Actually, there are plans for this. Originally I was just going to have
messages from the crew pop up in windows, but at one point I was
considering having them respond using .wav files and the sound config.
This is all part of the larger idea of having a nasal based crew to
offload pilot workload. That way I can keep the realism of the b29 and
still have it flyable by one person.

Josh


---
This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files
for problems?  Stop!  Download the new AJAX search engine that makes
searching your log files as easy as surfing the  web.  DOWNLOAD SPLUNK!
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=103432bid=230486dat=121642
___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel


RE: [Flightgear-devel] Re: [PATCH][RFC] speech synthesis with festival

2006-02-06 Thread Vivian Meazza
Melchior FRANZ

 * Erik Hofman -- Monday 06 February 2006 13:35:
  The original code was written for/by John Wojnaroski so you might be
  asking this a the wrong time. Personally I feel it would be a nice
 addition.
 
 OK, then I'll continue to work on it (as I've done since yesterday).
 I'll make it so that the preferences file decides how many voices there
 are. For each /sim/sound/voice[*]/{text,volume,pitch,speed} there will
 a channel be opened to festival and maintained by the subsystem.
 We could then add aliases for copilot, instructor, etc. Would be nice
 if the b29 copilot reported gear down etc., or the bo105 copilot
 gave some navigation hints (I think we are too far already. :-)
 
 BTW: the whole thing won't depend on festival. One can easily write
 a few lines of perl to simulate a festival server and use the text
 for different purposes. For example, to let a human or a trained
 monkey read it. And all others can map the text to the screen.log.
 
 I'll start to commit once I got permission. (The old ATC voice
 thing will lose the /sim/sound/voice property first, which is used
 as an enabled flag, and finally die.)
 

I'm working at getting Festival to compile under Cygwin. They claim that it
does, and, while it's very long-winded, it's looking good so far ...

Vivian



---
This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files
for problems?  Stop!  Download the new AJAX search engine that makes
searching your log files as easy as surfing the  web.  DOWNLOAD SPLUNK!
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=103432bid=230486dat=121642
___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel


Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: [PATCH][RFC] speech synthesis with festival

2006-02-06 Thread Curtis L. Olson

Vivian Meazza wrote:


I'm working at getting Festival to compile under Cygwin. They claim that it
does, and, while it's very long-winded, it's looking good so far ...
 



Is that pronounced WINE-D or WIN-D?

:-)

Curt.

--
Curtis Olsonhttp://www.flightgear.org/~curt
HumanFIRST Program  http://www.humanfirst.umn.edu/
FlightGear Project  http://www.flightgear.org
Unique text:2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d



---
This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files
for problems?  Stop!  Download the new AJAX search engine that makes
searching your log files as easy as surfing the  web.  DOWNLOAD SPLUNK!
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=103432bid=230486dat=121642
___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel


RE: [Flightgear-devel] Re: [PATCH][RFC] speech synthesis with festival

2006-02-06 Thread Vivian Meazza
Curtis L. Olson

 
 Vivian Meazza wrote:
 
 I'm working at getting Festival to compile under Cygwin. They claim that
 it
 does, and, while it's very long-winded, it's looking good so far ...
 
 
 
 Is that pronounced WINE-D or WIN-D?
 

Nah - that's as in it doesn't work - yet :-(

Vivian




---
This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files
for problems?  Stop!  Download the new AJAX search engine that makes
searching your log files as easy as surfing the  web.  DOWNLOAD SPLUNK!
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=103432bid=230486dat=121642
___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel


Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: [PATCH][RFC] speech synthesis with festival

2006-02-06 Thread John Wojnaroski
Yes, this is going to be a crazy week. But quickly then; 

The original code I sent on to Dave Luft had a socket interface in the 
AI module for the ATIS and AI controller.  Somewhere on a disc that code 
and a howto I started on setting up the festival server/client 
interface to FG exists. There was also a speech recognition program 
using SphinxII under development by CMU, and a modest set of ATC phrases 
and words that formed the corpus.  You could talk and an AI controller 
would respond, but it had a extremely limit *brain*. All it could do was 
respond and okay your request.


The festival produced speech is very mechanicasl, but can be *humanized* 
with a markup language called SABLE.  There is also a DB of voices 
available and the capability to create additional voices --- not a 
trivial task to be undertaken by the faint-hearted ;-)


The ATC chatter added by Curtis creates an amazingly real aural 
environment, even if a bit out of context. No question that voice would 
be a good addition.


Regards
John W.

Erik Hofman wrote:


Melchior FRANZ wrote:


It just doesn't look as if there's much interest.



The original code was written for/by John Wojnaroski so you might be 
asking this a the wrong time. Personally I feel it would be a nice 
addition.


Erik





---
This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files
for problems?  Stop!  Download the new AJAX search engine that makes
searching your log files as easy as surfing the  web.  DOWNLOAD SPLUNK!
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=103432bid=230486dat=121642
___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel


[Flightgear-devel] Planning??

2006-02-06 Thread John Wojnaroski

Hi Curt,

Looks like the best (only) opportune time to meet with Tony is Friday 
either at the scale site or back here.


Setup should not take more than two hours, assuming all goes well.  
Biggest unknowns are power and internet connections.  As a paying 
exhibitor we can get the power,  one more machine and an extra laptop 
added since last year, but thinking we'll still be under 1KW.   The dhcp 
and wifi questions will be worked in real-time on Friday.


Looks like synthetic voice is back, he he

Have a safe trip.  See you Friday.

Regards
John W.





---
This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files
for problems?  Stop!  Download the new AJAX search engine that makes
searching your log files as easy as surfing the  web.  DOWNLOAD SPLUNK!
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=103432bid=230486dat=121642
___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel


Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: [PATCH][RFC] speech synthesis with festival

2006-02-06 Thread Erik Hofman

Isao Yamashita wrote:
I thinks it is also useful to simulate the bitchin' betty computer 
voices for military jets / airliner planes.


You know, I even asked the female that has spoken in the original 
Bitchin' Betty commands for the F-16 for some audio files. Unfortunately 
I never got an answer :-(


Erik

--
http://www.ehtw.info (Dutch)Future of Enschede Airport Twente
http://www.ehofman.com/fgfs FlightGear Flight Simulator
http://www.cafepress.com/fgfs_flightsim  FlightGear Art


---
This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files
for problems?  Stop!  Download the new AJAX search engine that makes
searching your log files as easy as surfing the  web.  DOWNLOAD SPLUNK!
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=103432bid=230486dat=121642
___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel


[Flightgear-devel] Displaying fullscreen PFD2

2006-02-06 Thread Justin Smithies
So help me out guys please.

If i want to run FG on one pc with dual head card for scenery , and use the 
other running FG and networked to the 1st. If i modify my 737 on the 2nd pc 
to only display a fullscreen PFD2 will this take its readings from the master 
pc doing the scenery etc ?

Also to blow up the PFD2 to full screen 1024 * 768 how would this apply in the 
X1 X2 and Y1 Y2 settings as i dont quite understand them yet?
I know i will have to draw my own textures to the required size its just the 
placing bit that gets me.
I'll paste a bit of the PFD2 code in so you can see what i mean.

layer
   namebackground/name
   texture
pathAircraft/737-test/Instruments/Textures/ah-face2.rgb/path
x10.0/x1
y10.0/y1
x21.0/x2
y21.0/y2 
   /texture
   w250/w
   h250/h   
   transformations
transformation
  typex-shift/type
  offset0/offset
 /transformation
 transformation
  typey-shift/type
  offset0/offset
/transformation 
   /transformations
  /layer

Any help will be much appreciated.

Regards,
Justin Smithies


---
This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files
for problems?  Stop!  Download the new AJAX search engine that makes
searching your log files as easy as surfing the  web.  DOWNLOAD SPLUNK!
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=103432bid=230486dat=121642
___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel


Re: [Flightgear-devel] Displaying fullscreen PFD2

2006-02-06 Thread Josh Babcock
Justin Smithies wrote:
 So help me out guys please.
Have you looked at OpenGC? It was made specifically for this, and fg has
a built-in interface for it.

Josh


---
This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files
for problems?  Stop!  Download the new AJAX search engine that makes
searching your log files as easy as surfing the  web.  DOWNLOAD SPLUNK!
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=103432bid=230486dat=121642
___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel


[Flightgear-devel] handy manual for painting

2006-02-06 Thread Josh Babcock
http://www.ams.vr.it/dat/entry_eng/entry_eng.htm
Scroll down to TO 1-1-4, it's the USAF technical order for how to paint
all their aircraft.

Josh


---
This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files
for problems?  Stop!  Download the new AJAX search engine that makes
searching your log files as easy as surfing the  web.  DOWNLOAD SPLUNK!
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=103432bid=230486dat=121642
___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel


Re: [Flightgear-devel] A-10 3D cockpit

2006-02-06 Thread alexis bory
Martin Spott a écrit :

 alexis bory wrote:

 Before going farther I'd like to know if any body else allready do
 the same work.


 Lee Elliott did the A-10, you'd probably ask him to coordinate the
 effort. I'd love to see a nice copckpit for the A-10 because I find
 it's much fun to fly that aircraft,

 Martin.


I just can't wait to show a screenshot:
http://croo.murgl.org/img/very-begining.jpg

It's the very begining of the work, I hope it will be usable by most people.

Did anybody asked about a way to keep the hud's marks inside the hud
screen ?

btw look at this nice peacefull A-10 :)
http://www.firehogs.com/photos/photos.shtml

Alexis


---
This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files
for problems?  Stop!  Download the new AJAX search engine that makes
searching your log files as easy as surfing the  web.  DOWNLOAD SPLUNK!
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid3432bid#0486dat1642
___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel


[Flightgear-devel] Re: A-10 3D cockpit

2006-02-06 Thread Melchior FRANZ
* alexis bory -- Tuesday 07 February 2006 00:14:
 I just can't wait to show a screenshot:
 http://croo.murgl.org/img/very-begining.jpg

Very nice. Looks quite good already!

m.


---
This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files
for problems?  Stop!  Download the new AJAX search engine that makes
searching your log files as easy as surfing the  web.  DOWNLOAD SPLUNK!
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=103432bid=230486dat=121642
___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel


Re: [Flightgear-devel] A-10 3D cockpit

2006-02-06 Thread Andy Ross
alexis bory wrote:
 Did anybody asked about a way to keep the hud's marks inside the hud
 screen ?

There isn't a good way to do it right now.  The current HUD code is
very old, and predates the 3D cockpits.  It just draws directly to the
screen (with a matrix hack to make it appear in the correct 3D
orientation) with no clipping at all.

It might not be a bad idea to start thinking about rewriting this, or
even doing a soft-coded HUD using the existing animation tools.

Andy


---
This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files
for problems?  Stop!  Download the new AJAX search engine that makes
searching your log files as easy as surfing the  web.  DOWNLOAD SPLUNK!
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=103432bid=230486dat=121642
___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel


Re: [Flightgear-devel] A-10 3D cockpit

2006-02-06 Thread Josh Babcock
alexis bory wrote:

 Did anybody asked about a way to keep the hud's marks inside the hud
 screen ?
 

If you are talking about the HUDs controlled by the 'h' key, I don't
know the answer but I know it can be done so long as you want to
constrain them to a rectangle. If you are talking about the kind of HUDs
made from 3D objects, then read on.

I was thinking about this just last night. I came up with a solution
based on layering of transparent images. Rendering a transparent poly
that is a) between some object and the viewpoint and b) listed before
that object in the scenegraph will cause that object to become invisible
wherever it is obscured by the transparent object. This is the genesis
of many layering problems for 3D modelers.

My idea is to create such an object as a mask that goes around the edge
of the HUD. You put it almost last in the scenegraph so it doesn't cause
this problem with bits of the cockpit, but you put the objects with the
HUD markings after it in the scenegraph, and located physically out at
the focal point of the projector. This point will probably be somewhere
just out past the windscreen. When your head is in the right spot, you
will see the markings through the hole that is cut in the middle of the
screen, but if the markings or your viewpoint moves too far off to the
side the markings get obscured by the mask.

I'm planning on trying this method with the 3D model for Lee E's
CanberraBI8.

Josh


---
This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files
for problems?  Stop!  Download the new AJAX search engine that makes
searching your log files as easy as surfing the  web.  DOWNLOAD SPLUNK!
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=103432bid=230486dat=121642
___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel


Re: [Flightgear-devel] A-10 3D cockpit

2006-02-06 Thread Curtis L. Olson

Andy Ross wrote:


There isn't a good way to do it right now.  The current HUD code is
very old, and predates the 3D cockpits.  It just draws directly to the
screen (with a matrix hack to make it appear in the correct 3D
orientation) with no clipping at all.
 



The HUD is one of the very original pieces of code in the FlightGear 
project.  We had the hud implimented even before we were able to put 
textures on terrain, before there was any notion of land use/land cover, 
even before we had any 2d instrument panels, before there was a property 
system, before xml.



It might not be a bad idea to start thinking about rewriting this, or
even doing a soft-coded HUD using the existing animation tools.



The original hud code has served us pretty well, but we have learned and 
grown so much as a project in the mean time.  It would be a large effort 
for someone, but I agree with Andy that  it is probably getting close to 
time for a complete rewrite.


Curt.

--
Curtis Olsonhttp://www.flightgear.org/~curt
HumanFIRST Program  http://www.humanfirst.umn.edu/
FlightGear Project  http://www.flightgear.org
Unique text:2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d



---
This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files
for problems?  Stop!  Download the new AJAX search engine that makes
searching your log files as easy as surfing the  web.  DOWNLOAD SPLUNK!
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=103432bid=230486dat=121642
___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel


Re: [Flightgear-devel] A-10 3D cockpit

2006-02-06 Thread Isao Yamashita
I've got an idea.  What if we would have the background of a regular 2D / 3D instrument transparent or translucent, and arrange the layout like HUD, and laid over on the screen ?  I bet we can make the attitude / airspeed / alt / vsi gauges to only display the numbers without the ticks and the needles, and layout them like HUD with thier transparent background.  I thought it'd be a quick and straight-forward approach, but am I far off ?  Hope not.  Isao"Curtis L. Olson" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Andy Ross wrote:There isn't a good way to do it right now.  The current HUD code isvery old, and predates the 3D cockpits.  It just draws directly to thescreen (with a matrix hack to make it appear in the correct 3Dorientation) with no clipping at all. 
 The HUD is one of the very original pieces of code in the FlightGear project.  We had the hud implimented even before we were able to put textures on terrain, before there was any notion of land use/land cover, even before we had any 2d instrument panels, before there was a property system, before xml.It might not be a bad idea to start thinking about rewriting this, oreven doing a soft-coded HUD using the existing animation tools.The original hud code has served us pretty well, but we have learned and grown so much as a project in the mean time.  It would be a large effort for someone, but I agree with Andy that  it is probably getting close to time for a complete rewrite.Curt.-- Curtis Olsonhttp://www.flightgear.org/~curtHumanFIRST Program  http://www.humanfirst.umn.edu/FlightGear Project  http://www.flightgear.orgUnique text:   
 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d---This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log filesfor problems?  Stop!  Download the new AJAX search engine that makessearching your log files as easy as surfing the  web.  DOWNLOAD SPLUNK!http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=103432bid=230486dat=121642___Flightgear-devel mailing listFlightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.nethttps://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel

Re: [Flightgear-devel] A-10 3D cockpit

2006-02-06 Thread dene maxwell


I just can't wait to show a screenshot:
http://croo.murgl.org/img/very-begining.jpg

It's the very begining of the work, I hope it will be usable by most 
people.


Brilliant!!!... The A10 is my favourite jet AC... the canopy and the start 
of the instrumentation looks great...


... great links for resources on the A10

Thnx Alexis... keep up the great work

=Dene

_
Read the latest Hollywood gossip  @  http://xtramsn.co.nz/entertainment



---
This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files
for problems?  Stop!  Download the new AJAX search engine that makes
searching your log files as easy as surfing the  web.  DOWNLOAD SPLUNK!
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=103432bid=230486dat=121642
___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel


Re: [Flightgear-devel] MAP Atlas... Where?

2006-02-06 Thread Frederic Bouvier
Selon dene maxwell :

 OK, I give up ..where have you guys hidden Map and Atlas in the CVS tree,
 I'm assured the're Win32 executables available for both of them in the tree.

 Just a URL please

http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=9456

-Fred


---
This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files
for problems?  Stop!  Download the new AJAX search engine that makes
searching your log files as easy as surfing the  web.  DOWNLOAD SPLUNK!
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid3432bid#0486dat1642
___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel