Re: [Flightgear-devel] V22-Osprey

[Maik Justus]

Hi Georg,
Georg Vollnhals schrieb am 31.07.2007 01:57:
> Maik Justus schrieb:
>   
>> Yes, I get the same here. I think it is related to the collective 
>> position. The rudder function is done by different pitching (cyclic) of 
>> the two rotors. 
>> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiltrotor
>  Yaw  is controlled
> by tilting its rotors in opposite directions. 
>
> Maik, you may already have read this and I am not very familiar with
> the  tiltrotor technology. But *if* they are right then there should at
> least be an additional tilting-effect  to  the  different cyclic
> pitching you are using, as I understand. 
I have a video of a V22 doing some pirouettes. The rudder <-> tilting is 
not visible, but maybe it's only a few degrees. I will try, if that 
helps. (while watching this video I got aware, that the rudder and 
probably the elevator are controlled at low speeds, too. I need to fix that)

Maik


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] V22-Osprey

[Georg Vollnhals]

Maik Justus schrieb:
>
> Yes, I get the same here. I think it is related to the collective 
> position. The rudder function is done by different pitching (cyclic) of 
> the two rotors. 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiltrotor
 Yaw  is controlled
by tilting its rotors in opposite directions. 

Maik, you may already have read this and I am not very familiar with
the  tiltrotor technology. But *if* they are right then there should at
least be an additional tilting-effect  to  the  different cyclic
pitching you are using, as I understand. This could be the reason for
more responsability - left nacelle little forward tilt, right nacelle
little backward tilt, yaw the a/c to the right.

But whether this is correct or not - it is wikipedia, so we don't know
exactly :-/
But as the wikipedia author goes on writing " Pitch
 is provided through
rotor cyclic or nacelle tilt."  I think he is pretty well informed about
cyclic and common rotor technology.


Regards
Georg




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Re: [Flightgear-devel] V22-Osprey

[Maik Justus]

Hi Curt,
Curtis Olson schrieb am 31.07.2007 00:17:
> On 7/30/07, *Georg Vollnhals* <[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > wrote:
>
> At last, this is a very, very fascinating FG aircraft from all aspects
> and this was not my last flight, I will ignore my old
> "pedal-habits" :-)
> Thank you very much both Emmanuel and Maik for your work.
>
>
> Yes!  Until I figure out how to fly it, I'm fascinated just watching 
> the wing fold animation!  Really neat stuff!
>
> Curt.


How to fly the V22:
Start the engines by pressing "}", wait for the rotors to speed up and 
fly it like a helicopter. By pressing "m" you can tilt the engines 10° 
fwd, by pressing it 9 times you get the aircraft-like configuration (you 
can do it on ground, too, the flight computer limits the tilt to allowed 
values and will increase the tilt if the aircraft increases its speed. 
Lift of before reaching airspeeds > 90kts or the rotors ...) For 
converting to helicopter mode just press "M" to tilt the engines 10° aft 
(up to -10°) or "alt-m" to get them vertical. Again, the flight computer 
limits the tilt depending on the speed. Therefore just press "alt-m" at 
any speed and reduce the speed. (Be careful, the large rotors are acting 
as a huge brake. Maybe I need to tune the minimum incidence of the 
blades in aircraft mode.)  It converts to helicopter mode automatically.

The V22 is very easy to fly. All your controls are fed into the flight 
computer which calculates the "correct" output for the rotors and 
surfaces. (ok, there are some problems with the rudder function)

I have information about the conversion between aircraft mode and 
helicopter mode, but I have no information about the real flight 
characteristic. Therefore the parameters for the flight computer are 
pure guessed.

Best regards,
Maik


By the way: If someone has better sound for the moving wing etc. (I have 
used blurred sounds of several tools (drill, mixer, ...))


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] V22-Osprey

[Maik Justus]

Hi Georg,
Georg Vollnhals schrieb am 30.07.2007 23:49:
> Hi Maik,
>
> after creating a new build (OSG CVS) and downloading new data I made
> several testflights.
>
> The new build might have changed the behaviour a little, now I get the
> correct pedal-response *very* groundnear (groundeffect?), going upwards
> there is a small zone where I get no reliable effect and a little higher
> I have the inverted pedal-response.
>   
Yes, I get the same here. I think it is related to the collective 
position. The rudder function is done by different pitching (cyclic) of 
the two rotors. In the simulation this has only a small effect, 
therefore I need large input to the cyclic. With maximum collective the 
blades are near the stall incidence. With increased incidence by the 
rudder-function, the rotor stalls partly. This reduces the lift where 
increased lift is wanted. Therefore an inverted effect is visible. I 
need to optimize the rotor parameter further. Unfortunately I have 
neither drag/lift curves of the used airfoils nor information about the 
cyclic/collective range. I only have information about the blade 
geometry, 47.5 degree twist (!).  Therefore I need to do some more trial 
and error.
> After several trials (and crashes) I got a little used to this and made
> it through the transition into forward flight. Here I have the same
> strange effect that pressing left pedal tilts  the aircraft to the right
> (longitudinal axis) and right pedal press tilts it to the left (a normal
> aircraft would tilt to the left when pressing left pedal and moving
> siderudder to the left).
>   
I think I have the same effect here. The rudder has large negative 
effect on the aileron-axis. I will try to find the root cause for this 
and reduce this effect.
> By the way, it was then really nice to land, slowing down and pitching
> the rotors back step for step without knowing the exact speeds and
> procedure-steps (got a very smooth landing with -10 deg).
>
>   
You can set the engine-tilt to vertical at every speed you like. The 
flight computer limits the actual tilt depending on the aircrafts speed. 
And you can set it to horizontal flight on ground, do a short take off 
and convert to horizontal mode a few seconds after lift off.
> This is just a report, nothing more. If it is working fine for you and
> Emmanuel then it might be something strange due to my local copy.
>   
Thank you very much for pointing out these bugs!
> Would be fine if other developers/users give further feedback.
>
> At last, this is a very, very fascinating FG aircraft from all aspects
> and this was not my last flight, I will ignore my old "pedal-habits" :-)
> Thank you very much both Emmanuel and Maik for your work.
>   
I am sure we get the V22 to correct pedal-habits. :-)

By investigating these effects I found out that my local modifications 
have noticeable effect on the aircrafts performance (the code in cvs 
does one 1st order approximation which is not valid for the highly 
twisted blades of the v22. I sent a diff to Andy).
> Regards
> Georg
>
>   
Maik

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] V22-Osprey

[Curtis Olson]

On 7/30/07, Georg Vollnhals <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> At last, this is a very, very fascinating FG aircraft from all aspects
> and this was not my last flight, I will ignore my old "pedal-habits" :-)
> Thank you very much both Emmanuel and Maik for your work.


Yes!  Until I figure out how to fly it, I'm fascinated just watching the
wing fold animation!  Really neat stuff!

Curt.
-- 
Curtis Olson - University of Minnesota - FlightGear Project
http://baron.flightgear.org/~curt/  http://www.humanfirst.umn.edu/
http://www.flightgear.org
Unique text: 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
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[Flightgear-devel] fgfs -> kttsd (KDE) -> festival bridge

[Melchior FRANZ]

Those using kttsd (KDE's Text To Speech Daemon), for example, to
let the konversation IRC client speak received messages[1], may
want to avoid running the festival server with all its voices twice.

The attached perl program "festival-server" pretends to be
"festival --server" and hands all messages over to kttsd (via
dcop), which sends them to the already running festival.

Usage:

  $ festival-server

m.


[1] that's easy: under "Settings->Configure Notifications..."
choose "Execute a program" (the gear symbol in the leftmost
column) with "/home/foo/bin/konversation-event %e %s" as
program, and let that script use dcop to write to kttsd:
$ dcop kttsd kspeech sayMessage "hello computer" ""
Script on request.  :-)


festival-server.gz
Description: GNU Zip compressed data
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] V22-Osprey

[Georg Vollnhals]

Maik Justus schrieb:
> Hi Georg,
>
> this is definitely not wanted. Do you have an actual build of 
> flightgear? If it is younger than approximately two weeks, than this 
> should be fixed. The problem was an overestimated downwash of the 
> v22-rotors (they have 47.5 degree tilt) and more slip near the center 
> (with very high aoa) than other rotors. The effect you see is similar to 
> a thrust reverser (90 degree flaperons).
>
> Maik
>   
Hi Maik,

after creating a new build (OSG CVS) and downloading new data I made
several testflights.

The new build might have changed the behaviour a little, now I get the
correct pedal-response *very* groundnear (groundeffect?), going upwards
there is a small zone where I get no reliable effect and a little higher
I have the inverted pedal-response.

After several trials (and crashes) I got a little used to this and made
it through the transition into forward flight. Here I have the same
strange effect that pressing left pedal tilts  the aircraft to the right
(longitudinal axis) and right pedal press tilts it to the left (a normal
aircraft would tilt to the left when pressing left pedal and moving
siderudder to the left).
By the way, it was then really nice to land, slowing down and pitching
the rotors back step for step without knowing the exact speeds and
procedure-steps (got a very smooth landing with -10 deg).

This is just a report, nothing more. If it is working fine for you and
Emmanuel then it might be something strange due to my local copy.
Would be fine if other developers/users give further feedback.

At last, this is a very, very fascinating FG aircraft from all aspects
and this was not my last flight, I will ignore my old "pedal-habits" :-)
Thank you very much both Emmanuel and Maik for your work.

Regards
Georg

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] V22-Osprey

[Georg Vollnhals]

Maik Justus schrieb:
> Hi Georg,
>
> this is definitely not wanted. Do you have an actual build of 
> flightgear? If it is younger than approximately two weeks, than this 
> should be fixed. The problem was an overestimated downwash of the 
> v22-rotors (they have 47.5 degree tilt) and more slip near the center 
> (with very high aoa) than other rotors. The effect you see is similar to 
> a thrust reverser (90 degree flaperons).
>
> Maik
>   
Hi Mai,
thank you for your reply and the information :-)
As I am not sure about the exact date of my last FG build I will compile
now a fresh OSG CVS and give feedback after testing.
Regards
Georg

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] V22-Osprey

[Maik Justus]

Hi Georg,

this is definitely not wanted. Do you have an actual build of 
flightgear? If it is younger than approximately two weeks, than this 
should be fixed. The problem was an overestimated downwash of the 
v22-rotors (they have 47.5 degree tilt) and more slip near the center 
(with very high aoa) than other rotors. The effect you see is similar to 
a thrust reverser (90 degree flaperons).

Maik
 Georg Vollnhals schrieb am 30.07.2007 04:06:
> Hi Emmanuel,
>
> first thank you very much for this very intersting aircraft.
>
> What is irritating me is that pressing a pedal results in a yaw-movement
> to the other side. That is ie pressing the left  pedal lets the a/c
> rotate to the right (yaw-axis) and vice versa.
> This is a little strange as I would expect a compatibility to helicopter
> behaviour in hover-mode. What do you think about this - an error or a
> feature?
>
> Regards
> Georg EDDW
>
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>   


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[Flightgear-devel] Fuel Management

[Markus Zojer]

Hello everyone!

Just a short question regarding fuel management:

Are the following properties working: ??

controls/engines/engine/feed_tank
controls/fuel/tank/to_engine
controls/fuel/tank/to_tank

Since I tried them with different values (int -1,0,1..) and got no results.

Thanks,
Markus

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[Flightgear-devel] B-1B update

[Markus Zojer]

Hello World :-)

Please commit the next version of the B-1, available for download here ( 
many files updated):
http://homepage.univie.ac.at/markus.zojer/fgfs/B-1B.tar.gz

+ Features a very basic and alpha terrain avoidance system, usable with 
terrain follow or alt hold:

- switch on TER AVD
- select range (currently working 2.5, selected when flying below 
<=1000ft and 5nm selected when flying >=1000ft)
- select clearance in ft, available 0=off, 100, 300, 500, 1000ft for low 
flying; always use the next smaller increment then your agl hold 
altitude eg:
agl hold 1000ft --> use 500 clearance, at 1000 you will get a very bumpy 
ride;

+ New panels and OSG only switches
+ Many updates and fixes

Thanks,
Markus

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