[Flightgear-devel] Radar Coverage and Text Display

2008-10-07 Thread Manfred Janßen
Hi there,

I have actually two questions.

1.
I try to add some radar coverage cone to the A-10.
But at the moment I have no idea, how to start that. Any hints?

2.
Can anybody tell me, where Anders changed the codee to display the
property data on the screen?
I only need some 'inspiration' ;-) to change it for the way I need that ;-)

Kind Regards
Manfred
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Mailing list weirdness

2008-10-07 Thread Melchior FRANZ
* James Turner -- Tuesday 07 October 2008:
 Nine copies of this message so far, and counting.

http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detailatid=21aid=2147569group_id=1

m.

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Mailing list weirdness

2008-10-07 Thread Martin Spott
James Turner wrote:

 Nine copies of this message so far, and counting. Many other messages  
 I'm getting two or three copies of, but only from certain senders. As  
 near as I can tell from the message headers, the message was only sent  
 *to* the list once, i.e it's the list engine generating the copies,  
 but I'm not totally confident in that analysis.
 
 Am I the only one seeing this behaviour?

I don't know without looking into the logfile, but if you use
'procmail' for local EMail delivery, then I'd recommend you to add such
a little clause to your ~/.procmailrc configuration to prvent local
delivery of duplicates:

:0 Wh: msgid.lock
| formail -D 8192 $HOME/.msgid.cache


Cheers,
Martin.
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Mailing list weirdness

2008-10-07 Thread Manfred Janßen
Hi James,

got 7 messages here, maybe got two at home, so its same bevahiour here.

Regards
Manfred

James Turner schrieb:
 Nine copies of this message so far, and counting. Many other messages  
 I'm getting two or three copies of, but only from certain senders. 


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Mailing list weirdness

2008-10-07 Thread gerard robin
On mardi 07 octobre 2008, James Turner wrote:
 On 6 Oct 2008, at 19:28, AJ MacLeod wrote:
  I realise I'm dragging up an old (and repeated) thread here, but the
  first
  time round I had no opinion either way and so didn't comment.

 Nine copies of this message so far, and counting. Many other messages
 I'm getting two or three copies of, but only from certain senders. As
 near as I can tell from the message headers, the message was only sent
 *to* the list once, i.e it's the list engine generating the copies,
 but I'm not totally confident in that analysis.

 Am I the only one seeing this behaviour?

 James

Same problem here,

Since, i am using kmail which has the feature 'remove the duplicate mail'  it 
is esiar to live with that weidness.


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Mailing list weirdness

2008-10-07 Thread James Sleeman
On Tue, 2008-10-07 at 09:27 +0100, James Turner wrote:
 Am I the only one seeing this behaviour?

No.  Many copies of messages for the last 3 days or so.  When it started
it seemed to dump out a whole lot of messages that had been held up for
some period of time (that people had been complaining about already)
then began with the repetition.

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Radar Coverage and Text Display

2008-10-07 Thread gerard robin
On mardi 07 octobre 2008, Alexis Bory - xiii wrote:
 Manfred Janßen wrote:
   1. I try to add some radar coverage cone to the A-10. But at the
   moment I have no idea, how to start that. Any hints?

 Hi Manfred,
 What do you mean by radar coverage ? The A-10 do not have a radar, or
 may be you are talking about Radar Warning Receiver ?

 There is no point on adding a radar to the A-10, it would be like adding
 turbofan to the c172p... The A-10 as a cannon in place of the radar :-)

 If you want to  have a better view on how works the radar in Flightgear,
 you can have a look at AIBase.cxx, which is the starting point of every
 computation, then there are two systems: wxradar.cxx and radar2.nas.
 There is also a per aircraft database, radardist.xml and radardist.nas
 giving radar performances when the aircraft has a radar and also
 reflection performances for most of the GA aircrafts, this database is
 called by radar2.nas but could used by any other system.
 There is also a current developement for a generic RWR instrument
 (suitable for A-10, F-16, OV-10, A-6E...) giving a display of azimut,
 strength and type of radar threats. This use radar2.nas and the
 database. the RWR should be commited in a few days.

 Greetings,

 Alexis

Which could be, (more or less)  usefull to F-8E  in order to replace the 3D 
specific one which was developed   with the Aircraft in the old time, it was  
limited to 6 'bandit' id  (2 AI and 4 MP)


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Mailing list weirdness

2008-10-07 Thread Frederic Bouvier
James Turner wrote :
 On 6 Oct 2008, at 19:28, AJ MacLeod wrote:
 
  I realise I'm dragging up an old (and repeated) thread here, but the
  
  first
  time round I had no opinion either way and so didn't comment.
 
 Nine copies of this message so far, and counting. Many other messages 
 
 I'm getting two or three copies of, but only from certain senders. As 
 
 near as I can tell from the message headers, the message was only sent
  
 *to* the list once, i.e it's the list engine generating the copies,  
 but I'm not totally confident in that analysis.
 
 Am I the only one seeing this behaviour?

I only received six copies so far.

-Fred

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Radar Coverage and Text Display

2008-10-07 Thread Alexis Bory - xiii
Manfred Janßen wrote:
  1. I try to add some radar coverage cone to the A-10. But at the
  moment I have no idea, how to start that. Any hints?

Hi Manfred,
What do you mean by radar coverage ? The A-10 do not have a radar, or 
may be you are talking about Radar Warning Receiver ?

There is no point on adding a radar to the A-10, it would be like adding 
turbofan to the c172p... The A-10 as a cannon in place of the radar :-)

If you want to  have a better view on how works the radar in Flightgear, 
you can have a look at AIBase.cxx, which is the starting point of every 
computation, then there are two systems: wxradar.cxx and radar2.nas. 
There is also a per aircraft database, radardist.xml and radardist.nas   
giving radar performances when the aircraft has a radar and also 
reflection performances for most of the GA aircrafts, this database is 
called by radar2.nas but could used by any other system.
There is also a current developement for a generic RWR instrument 
(suitable for A-10, F-16, OV-10, A-6E...) giving a display of azimut, 
strength and type of radar threats. This use radar2.nas and the 
database. the RWR should be commited in a few days.

Greetings,

Alexis





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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Radar Coverage and Text Display

2008-10-07 Thread Manfred Janßen
Hi Alexis,

it's not bounded to the A-10.
The only think I wanna show is the coverage of the radar of the
aircraft, let me show you a simple drawing:



Thats what I wanna do, just simply show some cone like a radar-lobe.
Sorry for my explanation, but english is not my native language.
The text you see at the pic is that what my second question meant, it
works not in my DLL ( I use FG as a DLL in an other program to display
real flight data).

Kind Regards
Manfred

Alexis Bory - xiii schrieb:
 Manfred Janßen wrote:
   
  1. I try to add some radar coverage cone to the A-10. But at the
  moment I have no idea, how to start that. Any hints?
 

 Hi Manfred,
 What do you mean by radar coverage ? The A-10 do not have a radar, or 
 may be you are talking about Radar Warning Receiver ?

 There is no point on adding a radar to the A-10, it would be like adding 
 turbofan to the c172p... The A-10 as a cannon in place of the radar :-)

 If you want to  have a better view on how works the radar in Flightgear, 
 you can have a look at AIBase.cxx, which is the starting point of every 
 computation, then there are two systems: wxradar.cxx and radar2.nas. 
 There is also a per aircraft database, radardist.xml and radardist.nas   
 giving radar performances when the aircraft has a radar and also 
 reflection performances for most of the GA aircrafts, this database is 
 called by radar2.nas but could used by any other system.
 There is also a current developement for a generic RWR instrument 
 (suitable for A-10, F-16, OV-10, A-6E...) giving a display of azimut, 
 strength and type of radar threats. This use radar2.nas and the 
 database. the RWR should be commited in a few days.

 Greetings,

 Alexis





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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Radar and Text Display

2008-10-07 Thread Ummon Karpe
Wow. I didn't know that radar was implemented in Flightgear. I would like to
add it to all the Fighter Jets. Are there any instructions?

-Ummon


Hi there,

I have actually two questions.

1.
I try to add some radar coverage cone to the A-10.
But at the moment I have no idea, how to start that. Any hints?

2.
Can anybody tell me, where Anders changed the codee to display the
property data on the screen?
I only need some 'inspiration' ;-) to change it for the way I need that ;-)

Kind Regards
Manfred
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Radar Coverage and Text Display

2008-10-07 Thread James Turner

On 7 Oct 2008, at 07:49, Manfred Janßen wrote:

 I try to add some radar coverage cone to the A-10.
 But at the moment I have no idea, how to start that. Any hints?

It's not relevant now, but once I get my NAV display operating  
correctly, it'll be fairly simple to make it work as a radar display -  
I already need that to support a TCAS overlay.  I will probably review  
the wx-radar code at that point as well, since all these things are  
effectively layers of data that make up the complete display in a  
modern  system, but can be displayed stand-alone in an older cockpit.

However, this is definitely a medium-term thing, so if you want  
something soon, the solutions proposed by other people are better.

James


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Multiplayer Chat Frequencies?

2008-10-07 Thread DrC

On Tue, 2008-10-07 at 04:06 +0200, Csaba Halász wrote:
 * property to select active radio for transmission (maybe be per-radio
 flag?)

The intercom panels on the aircraft I fly have:
An On-Off switch for each receiver (comms and nav - vors, adf, dme .. )
to listen to comms traffic and nav ident signals.   All selected sound
sources are mixed into the headset - but one rarely selects more than
active comms plus one nav ident at a time.
A rotary switch to select Comm1 or Comm2 for the ptt transmit switch.

All this is part of the aircraft intercom panel wiring.   The comms
transmit channel is not selected at either radio.

Hope this helps - if not, disregard.

Chris


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Radar and Text Display

2008-10-07 Thread Alexis Bory - xiii
Ummon Karpe wrote:
  Wow. I didn't know that radar was implemented in Flightgear. I would
  like to add it to all the Fighter Jets. Are there any instructions?

Hi Ummon,

Not yet but I'm working on instruction for radar2.nas.

Note there is two main systems now, radar2.nas may look nicer at the 
first glance but need huge animations files and rely on Nasal and has a 
tendency to add some mess in the ai/model/ tree. I'm the author. You can 
see the result in the f-14b.
wxradar is writen in C++ and looks code wise cleaner. You can see it 
running on the harrier or the lightning and many other aircrafts. Vivian 
would better speak on this one than I can.

Don't go to fast in implementing those systems as they may change and 
progress a lot in the near future. Just look at both of them, do tests, 
report...

Good luck,
Alexis




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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Multiplayer Chat Frequencies?

2008-10-07 Thread Csaba Halász
On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 8:51 PM, DrC [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 The intercom panels on the aircraft I fly have:

snip

 Hope this helps - if not, disregard.

Thanks a lot for the info!

-- 
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Multiplayer Chat Frequencies?

2008-10-07 Thread Jon Stockill
DrC wrote:
 On Tue, 2008-10-07 at 04:06 +0200, Csaba Halász wrote:
 * property to select active radio for transmission (maybe be per-radio
 flag?)
 
 The intercom panels on the aircraft I fly have:
 An On-Off switch for each receiver (comms and nav - vors, adf, dme .. )
 to listen to comms traffic and nav ident signals.   All selected sound
 sources are mixed into the headset - but one rarely selects more than
 active comms plus one nav ident at a time.
 A rotary switch to select Comm1 or Comm2 for the ptt transmit switch.
 
 All this is part of the aircraft intercom panel wiring.   The comms
 transmit channel is not selected at either radio.
 
 Hope this helps - if not, disregard.

The KMA26 audio panel in the grob 115 is mostly functional. That has a 
rotary switch which allows you to select the com radio to transmit on, 
including an emergency setting which bypasses the audio panel and 
connects the mic direct to com1, then a number of pushbuttons which 
illuminate to indicate the selected audio sources (the tx radio is auto 
selected, and the other radios can be toggled on/off by pressing the 
button).

If you need more info you can download the manual from the bendix/king 
website.

Jon

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Radar Coverage and Text Display

2008-10-07 Thread Alexis Bory - xiii
Manfred Janßen wrote:
  Hi Alexis,

  it's not bounded to the A-10. The only think I wanna show is the
  coverage of the radar of the aircraft, let me show you a simple
  drawing:

Ok with the image that you sent me off list I understand.

You can add a visible shape in place of what could be the radar
vision cone like any other model.

You first need a scaled cone (you may use a smaller one and scale it
at run time*) this cone could be semi transparent. This has to be
done in blender or any modeling sofware and exported as .ac
I use AC3D (which is not free).

Then include your model inside the main aircraft model like we do
usually for 3d instruments.

Have a look at $DATA/Aircraft/A-10/Models/A-10-model.xml you will
find lot of instruments, your cone will be done the same way.

You can have more help on IRC irc.flightgear.org #flightgear

Greetings
Alexis

* this is another story but I'm sure you can :-)



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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Multiplayer Chat Frequencies?

2008-10-07 Thread Csaba Halász
On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 9:15 PM, Jon Stockill [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 The KMA26 audio panel in the grob 115 is mostly functional. That has a
 rotary switch which allows you to select the com radio to transmit on,
 including an emergency setting which bypasses the audio panel and
 connects the mic direct to com1, then a number of pushbuttons which
 illuminate to indicate the selected audio sources (the tx radio is auto
 selected, and the other radios can be toggled on/off by pressing the
 button).

We could add a selected property to every radio, that should be
generic across aircrafts to take over the function of
/instrumentation/kma26/com1sel and friends.
We'd also need a replacement for the primary-radio property, I guess
that should simply be /instrumentation/primary-radio.

-- 
Csaba/Jester

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Radar Coverage and Text Display

2008-10-07 Thread Geoff
On Tue, 2008-10-07 at 21:28 +0200, 


As a very concerned military simulationist (is there such a word?) I am
deeply worried about military radars, indeed the whole radar thing.

Every radar has it's own unique qualities - PRR, PRF, discrimination,
anti-clutter, etc.  From a simulation point of view radar range and
target size are extremely important.  An AWG-9 is not like an APS-124
nor like a SPS-10 or SPS-40, much less a Headnet C.  So what I am
getting at is a radar system is not inherent to a platform - but only to
itself.  And it's ability to find a target is unique.  So, please do not
lump radars into a all-in-one category.  Actually - there are at least
three categories:  

Fire control:  SPG-53/AWG-9, etc.  Usually they are very narrow beam,
high power and provide continuous tracking

Track While Scan (TWS):  Medium power.  Provide targeting and search.
Targeting is availble by their high rotation rate (usually one second or
less).  (SPS-55)

Search Radars:  Medium Power, slow rotation rate, very long range.  In aircraft 
typically 60 degree coverage - ships usually 360 degree.  Range is usually 
quite long but depends on PRR and PRF.

And a fourth might be the new generation of phased array - though granted they 
are not yet on aircraft (that I know of).

Note PRR = Pulse Repetition Rate   PRF= Pulse Repetition Frequency

Quite frankly, I would like to see radars put into a table so they can be 
easily modified in/when their data become available.  Janes usually offers 
quite accurate and unclassified data for radar systems.

Best wishes for continuing development!
-- 
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To be good is not enough when you dream of being great.



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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Radar Coverage and Text Display

2008-10-07 Thread Alexis Bory - xiii

Geoff wrote:

 On Tue, 2008-10-07 at 21:28 +0200,
 As a very concerned military simulationist (is there such a word?) I
 am deeply worried about military radars, indeed the whole radar
 thing.


Hi Geoff
Good news, I'm quite lost in the radar technical world.


 Every radar has it's own unique qualities - PRR, PRF, discrimination,
 anti-clutter, etc. From a simulation point of view radar range and
 target size are extremely important. An AWG-9 is not like an APS-124
 nor like a SPS-10 or SPS-40, much less a Headnet C. So what I am
 getting at is a radar system is not inherent to a platform - but only
 to itself. And it's ability to find a target is unique. So, please
 do not lump radars into a all-in-one category.


This is not what we want to do. Actually we work on a very basic
level, but the aim is having a radar behavior being as near from
reality as possible, I mean from a pilot's point of view.


 Quite frankly, I would like to see radars put into a table so they
 can be easily modified in/when their data become available.


This table exists, it is yet based by aircraft type but already includes
radar name, range, and other data (originaly by Glazmax/Jettoo and
updated by me). Radar types are not yet in the table but could be
added easily. The idea of indexing the table upon radar name is also
feasible and seems to be a very good idea :-)
One of the next application would be the RWR tone which on some
systems change with the frequency of the scan or goes continuous
when having a steady lock.
Anyway you can have a look at the table (attached file). Be indulgent
as we are not specialists. The table is already in CVS:
$DATA/Aircraft/Instruments-3d/radardist/radardist.xml

In our implementation algorithms are quite mostly guess... Your help
would be appreciated.


 Best wishes for continuing development!


Thanks.
Alexis



?xml version=1.0?

PropertyList
!-- Radar Visibility Calculator Datas --

!-- Jettoo (glazmax) and xiii (Alexis Bory) --

!-- Aircraft name, RCS(m2), 4th root of RCS, radar type, max. radar range(km),
max. radar range target seize(RCS)m2, 4th root of radar RCS --

	instrumentation
		radar-performance
			data
aircraft n=0
	namegeneric/name
	rcs-sq-meter5/rcs-sq-meter
	rcs-4th-root1.49/rcs-4th-root
	radar-typenone/radar-type
	max-radar-rng-km0/max-radar-rng-km
	max-target-sq-meter0/max-target-sq-meter
	max-target-4th-root0/max-target-4th-root
	ecm-type-num00/ecm-type-num
/aircraft
aircraft n=1
	name707/name
	rcs-sq-meter80/rcs-sq-meter
	rcs-4th-root2.34/rcs-4th-root
	radar-typenone/radar-type
	max-radar-rng-km0/max-radar-rng-km
	max-target-sq-meter0/max-target-sq-meter
	max-target-4th-root0/max-target-4th-root!-- guess --
	ecm-type-num00/ecm-type-num
/aircraft
aircraft n=2
	name737-300/name
	rcs-sq-meter50/rcs-sq-meter
	rcs-4th-root2.11/rcs-4th-root
	radar-typenone/radar-type
	max-radar-rng-km0/max-radar-rng-km
	max-target-sq-meter0/max-target-sq-meter
	max-target-4th-root0/max-target-4th-root!-- guess --
	ecm-type-num00/ecm-type-num
/aircraft
aircraft n=3
	name747/name
	rcs-sq-meter100/rcs-sq-meter
	rcs-4th-root2.34/rcs-4th-root
	radar-typenone/radar-type
	max-radar-rng-km0/max-radar-rng-km
	max-target-sq-meter0/max-target-sq-meter
	max-target-4th-root0/max-target-4th-root!-- guess --
	ecm-type-num00/ecm-type-num
/aircraft
aircraft n=4
	name n=0787/name
	name n=1777/name
	rcs-sq-meter35/rcs-sq-meter
	rcs-4th-root1.86/rcs-4th-root
	radar-typeWXR-2100/radar-type
	max-radar-rng-km160/max-radar-rng-km
	max-target-sq-meter100/max-target-sq-meter
	max-target-4th-root3.16/max-target-4th-root!-- guess --
	ecm-type-num00/ecm-type-num
/aircraft
aircraft n=5
	nameA24-Viking/name
	rcs-sq-meter2/rcs-sq-meter
	rcs-4th-root1.19/rcs-4th-root
	radar-typenone/radar-type
	max-radar-rng-km0/max-radar-rng-km
	max-target-sq-meter0/max-target-sq-meter
	max-target-4th-root0/max-target-4th-root!-- guess --
	ecm-type-num00/ecm-type-num
/aircraft
aircraft n=6
	nameA-10/name
	rcs-sq-meter25/rcs-sq-meter
	rcs-4th-root2.23/rcs-4th-root
	radar-typenone/radar-type
	max-radar-rng-km0/max-radar-rng-km
	max-target-sq-meter0/max-target-sq-meter
	max-target-4th-root0/max-target-4th-root
	ecm-type-num00/ecm-type-num
/aircraft
aircraft n=7
	nameA300/name
	rcs-sq-meter80/rcs-sq-meter
	rcs-4th-root2.23/rcs-4th-root
	radar-typenone/radar-type
	max-radar-rng-km0/max-radar-rng-km
	max-target-sq-meter0/max-target-sq-meter
	max-target-4th-root0/max-target-4th-root!-- guess --
	ecm-type-num00/ecm-type-num
/aircraft
aircraft n=8
	nameA320/name
	rcs-sq-meter50/rcs-sq-meter
	rcs-4th-root1.96/rcs-4th-root
	radar-typenone/radar-type
	max-radar-rng-km0/max-radar-rng-km
	

[Flightgear-devel] Orgnization of people models

2008-10-07 Thread Bohnert Paul
Developers,

I propose ../FlightGear/data/Models/People

Put all pilots and any other person in this directory. A few aircraft all 
ready use the testpilot model.

Looking ahead I can see flight attendants, ground crew, passengers, fire 
fighters and even the occasional snow plow driver. FlightGear users and 
developers are a creative bunch.

This would give them a know location making them easy to share like any other 
object.

Best Regards,
Paul Bohnert
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


  

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