Re: [Flightgear-devel] High altitute/speed flights terrain engine problems

2011-06-02 Thread Michael Sgier
It would be nice to get fgfred64's project finally into, as the current terrain 
seems outdated to me
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkzsD95K_Jk



--- On Wed, 6/1/11, Slavutinsky Victor vitos...@mail.ru wrote:

From: Slavutinsky Victor vitos...@mail.ru
Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] High altitute/speed flights terrain engine 
problems
To: FlightGear developers discussions flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Date: Wednesday, June 1, 2011, 2:29 PM

 As I indicated in the Forum
 http://www.flightgear.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6t=12005
 a solution to the problem would be to represent Earth from high altitude
 by pieces of a hires textured sphere (textures to be obtained from
 Celestia), with (at least as demo) a simple Nasal script controlling which
 pieces of the sphere are currently to be loaded.

As I said previously, it's gotta be implemented not on model level but
on whole FG level, or not implemented at all. Think You have more
productive computer while I have midproductive. We must orientate on
users with midproductive or even less powerful computers. Current FG
terrain engine can not be used on high altitude/speeds on current
midlevel computers and gotta be switched off anyway.

 I did some experiments with a textured sphere and found that I can't
 simply place an Earth-sized sphere at the coordinate origin - the model is
 apparently deemed to be too far away and isn't shown. Maybe there is a
 simple way to switch this off - but if not, a viable solution would be to
 use a nearer (co-moving) sphere bit which is kept in the precise
 proportion to the real thing as given by simple ray optics. Using this
 trick, I have managed to get a plausible ufo-above-Earth view within 35
 minutes work with a simple lowres (4096x4096) textured Earth.

Well, I suppose there is possible solution, as rising LOD of whole model
and LOD of Earth in model xml file. 

    animation
        typerange/type
        min-m0/min-m
        max-m100/max-m
    /animation

But what will You do in multiplayer?

 I believe all this is doable without significant modifications to the
 core. It may not be an elegant solution, but it can be picked up by anyone
 who is able to code a bit Nasal and can texture a model. Admittedly there
 are much more elegant solutions, and solutions which generalize to flights
 in the whole solar system, but I don't really see us getting started on
 that.

Again, in multiplayer You'll cover sky of other users with giant sphere
or will look as craft with big sphere aside for others. It's not only
not elegant, it's not solved problem really. Of course it possible to
make mutiplayer model without that sphere and so on, but normal things
gotta be common. Otherwise it makes problems what can not be solved.

 Cheers,
 
 * Thorsten

Cheers,

* Victor


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] terragear - file src/Lib/Optimize/genfans.cxx

2011-06-02 Thread Jason Cox
On Thu, 2011-06-02 at 03:12 +0200, Geoff McLane wrote:
 Hi Jason,

 
 When you say a 'long time', do you mean more than 
 this, like DAYS? ;=(( Just trying to get an idea 
 of how 'patient' one MUST be... before deciding 
 something is really going 'wrong'...
 
I have found that the standard set (from the old makeYSSY.sh script)
takes about and hour to process. Once this has added data from 1:125000
topo's (landmass,river,stream,lake), OSM
(freeway,truck,primary,secondary,service roads) then it extends to many
hours just for a 2x2 degree chunk.

 I do not know, or remember, what OS you are using,
 but after you mentioned it, I decided to take a 
 quick look at server and client in WIN32, and 
 there is absolutely NO WAY they would EVER run 
 in windows ;=((

I am on Gentoo 64

 This also happens to be one of my favorite 
 scenery build areas, although I always 
 extend that out to YGIL ;=)) That is the 
 e150s40 and e140s40 chunks... and the s30 
 group if I want to include YBBN...
 
I plan on doing more once I build an interpreter for contours out of
shape files. Anyone know the true meaning of the fit files? are these
used instead of the DEM chopped files?

 Any chance we may see the harbor bridge 
 in the scenery database ;=)) Sydney always 
 looks a bit strange without it, and the Opera 
 House, to name a few iconic indicators... 
 maybe they are already there since I have 
 not done a full check in a while...
love too do it but I am not a modeler. :(
(note to self, how about a dual camera rig with GPS that can build the
wire frames  Splinscan without a laser...) 


Jason Cox


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] OT: android/ipad development

2011-06-02 Thread Michael Sgier
Android here as well. Let me know if i can help...I was planning to look into 
such myself very soon.


--- On Sat, 5/21/11, Arnt Karlsen a...@c2i.net wrote:

From: Arnt Karlsen a...@c2i.net
Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] OT: android/ipad development
To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Date: Saturday, May 21, 2011, 12:37 AM

On Fri, 20 May 2011 16:46:33 -0500, Curtis wrote in message 
banlktin6zx2k0yg-xktft9mp3mn-8pd...@mail.gmail.com:

 Hi Victhor,
 
 Thanks for the offer to help test.  We'll have to see how (and if?)
 this project shapes up and whether we end up going down the ios path
 or the android path or as someone else suggested, attempt to find a
 way to support both.  I have an android phone myself, but everyone
 else involved in this UAS project is mac so I'll probably get out
 voted. :-)
 
 Curt.
 

..add me to the Android vote. ;o)

 On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 5:06 PM, Victhor victhor.fos...@gmail.com
 wrote:
 
  I currently am in possession of a ARM Cortex-A8 development board,
  complete with graphics processor(PowerVR SGX) and Android support.
  If you need any hardware to test software on, I'll be willing to
  help. It has a screen, though pretty low res(480x272), and the LCD
  interface got a small issue, but I'll fix this very soon. It also
  has only 256 MB of RAM.
   On Wednesday, May 18, 2011 03:12:24 PM Curtis Olson wrote:
On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 1:58 PM, Claus Christmann
h...@gatech.edu
  wrote:
 Have you looked at the ground control station for the
 Parrot AR
  Drone?
 http://youtu.be/wtlp7jwvkd4
   
The Parrot AR drone is a cool product, but that's a proprietary
system, right?  In our case we would have significantly
different design and
  usage
goals compared to the parrot drone, but certainly we would need
to accomplish many of the same technical hurdles.
   
Our drone flies well beyond wifi range.  We are primarily
focused on outdoor use.  The parrot AR drone (as best as I can
tell from the
  videos
I've seen) is primarily a remote piloted vehicle -- with
computer stabilization.  It probably wouldn't take much to make
it fully autonomous, but that's not the primary usage that I've
seen.
   (Interactive
real/VR blended dog fights.)
   
Curt.
  
   Hi Curt,
  
   you are right in all of your points. I was just wondering if you
   simply
  looked
   at their software SDK (for a GCS). AFAIK their GCS is iPhone
   only, but
  some
   people have compiled it for Android. So maybe those guys could
   give you a
  hand
   for your GCS system.
  
   http://www.shellware.com/BlogEngine.Web/page/ARPro-for-Android.aspx
   is
  one
   example of an Android GCS for the Parrot.AR
  
   Good Luck,
  
   Claus
  
 
 
 
 
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] High altitute/speed flights terrain engine problems

2011-06-02 Thread Slavutinsky Victor

 It would be nice to get fgfred64's project finally into, as the
 current terrain seems outdated to me
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkzsD95K_Jk

He do not answer on my message on YouTube, his email what mike4lin had
gave me on forum is outdated, his folder on fotolia.com is closed. If
someone have more modern contact information then please let me know.

Everything gotta be made in time. There is things what can not be
delayed because we are alive people.


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] terragear - file src/Lib/Optimize/genfans.cxx

2011-06-02 Thread Christian Schmitt
Geoff McLane wrote:

 Thanks. It is good to know that the -
 Default=x, where x = 0-2 is 'normal', but
 Chris reported that it was still running after
 6 hours, or more... and still unable to exactly
 find where this is output, in the code...

You won't be able to find Default in the sources as the output is
Landclass = x, Default being Landmass. So there might be something wrong 
in this direction.


 And Chris, you can see some of the comments
 associated with the 2009 patch to the rlimits
 code you pointed to are NOT correct!
 
 Even at that time any attempt to limit
 memory use was abandoned, and the CPU timeout
 was doubled...
 
 Like it seems you have done, this 'limit' is
 really NOT applicable to a specific area
 generation, as apposed to a whole world
 generation, using server/client, so like you,
 I 'chop' this 'rlimit' code completely...

I put the patch back in, too.

 
 Some, like Gijs, and myself, are working on
 a GUI to assist in this scenery generation,
 but the important issue IS making sure the
 TG tools work well, otherwise such a GUI is
 rather pointless...

Exactly, and as long as we don't have a new terrain engine in FG, more 
efforts have to be put into TG, if we don't want to end up in a mess, 
scenery-wise.


Chris

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] High altitute/speed flights terrain engine problems

2011-06-02 Thread thorsten . i . renk
 As I said previously, it's gotta be implemented not on model level but
 on whole FG level, or not implemented at all.

Nobody is talking about implementing anything on *aircraft* model level -
the idea is to represent *Earth* by a model the same way we can represent,
say, clouds by a model.

Scenery models usually exist on the whole FG level...

Well, Stuart got it right:

The perfect is the enemy of the good. - Voltaire

If the choice is between an existing imperfect implementation and a
theoretical perfect implementation, I'd go with the first any time. :-)

Cheers,

* Thorsten


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Object distance fading color

2011-06-02 Thread thorsten . i . renk
 Part of the problem is that FlightGear almost always renders ideal
 situations for the skydome.
 If you look at this picture you see there are situations where white fog
 is natural:
 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2a/St.Gilgen_Panorama_2007-02-22.jpg
But you obviously won't get that with the sun hidden behind a cloudy
 sky.



Yes, that was my analysis as well. My point is - the skydome or terrain
shader code can't know a priori. But all our weather systems have the
relevant information readily available - all we need to do is expose a
property which tells the distance fading code how much sunlight is
available at a given altitude  (below a layer, mountains should fade to
dark, above to white for instance).

* Thorsten


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[Flightgear-devel] FlightGear Newsletter - May 2011

2011-06-02 Thread Gijs de Rooy

May is over, June is well on its way: time for another newsletter! Looks like 
summer already started accross 
the globe, given the slightly dissapointing number of contributions. I guess 
being outside is in favour of sitting 
behind a desk for must of us. :)

Still, a small group of people is preparing something rather big for the 
upcoming months: a new FlightGear 
release! Read more details in the `Release plane´ in the newsletter and see 
where your help is needed.

FlightGear Newsletter - May 2011

Contributions for next month's newsletter are welcome as of now at FlightGear 
Newsletter - June 2011. 
If you've never contributed before, it might be wise to read the short 
introduction, to learn in what ways 
you can contribute.   --
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] High altitute/speed flights terrain engine problems

2011-06-02 Thread Slavutinsky Victor
 Nobody is talking about implementing anything on *aircraft* model level -
 the idea is to represent *Earth* by a model the same way we can represent,
 say, clouds by a model.

If two users in parallel flying spacecrafts will see the same good then
there is no problem. But everything on Nasal is on local level, not
global core level.

 Scenery models usually exist on the whole FG level...

Earth is not scenery.

 Well, Stuart got it right:
 
 The perfect is the enemy of the good. - Voltaire
 
 If the choice is between an existing imperfect implementation and a
 theoretical perfect implementation, I'd go with the first any time. :-)

At first, until current engine can not be stopped there is no choice at
all. Secondly, that Frederic's engine is existed already while textured
globe engine what You are mean not yet. But it's unknown can it be
included or not, same as already existed osgEarth textured globe engine
BTW.

I understand what You have some vision of way to solve problem. It's
good solution, at least for You, because it will lead You to some
personal improvement by Your own, which means not so expensive for You,
way.

But what's I really do not like in current Open Source what's people
constantly solving same problems again and again without real results
while other unfinished solutions is existed and solving problems by half
solutions what become to need of complete rewriting faster then it could
become really nice to end user.

So if choice is between redoing things what's already done and including
that things I would prefer including. There is four or five Open Source
space simulators and most of them is not so addable for modder or even
usable for end user. If them authors could put their efforts together
then we could have best space sim already.

Honestly, I appreciate Your solution, but only in case if it's
impossible to include already existed other one.

 Cheers,
 
 * Thorsten

Cheers,

* Victor


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear Newsletter - May 2011

2011-06-02 Thread Torsten Dreyer
 May is over, June is well on its way: time for another newsletter! Looks
 like summer already started accross the globe, given the slightly
 dissapointing number of contributions. I guess being outside is in favour
 of sitting behind a desk for must of us. :)
 
 Still, a small group of people is preparing something rather big for the
 upcoming months: a new FlightGear release! Read more details in the
 `Release plane´ in the newsletter and see where your help is needed.

And there is an excellent article about LinuxTag!

Torsten

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Object distance fading color

2011-06-02 Thread Erik Hofman
On Thu, 2011-06-02 at 12:53 +0300, thorsten.i.r...@jyu.fi wrote:

 Yes, that was my analysis as well. My point is - the skydome or terrain
 shader code can't know a priori. But all our weather systems have the
 relevant information readily available - all we need to do is expose a
 property which tells the distance fading code how much sunlight is
 available at a given altitude  (below a layer, mountains should fade to
 dark, above to white for instance).

I'll see what I can come up with this weekend.
On another note: I seem to remember you had another request for the
weather system but I was too busy to remember it. Do you remember what
that was?

Erik


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] [Flightgear-commitlogs] FlightGear Base Package branch, master,

2011-06-02 Thread Martin Spott
Flightgear-commitlogs wrote:
[...]
 commit 776866b4f79ca34f202a476c5af22531bdf53a87
 Author: Ryan Miller
 Date:   Thu May 26 18:10:32 2011 -0700
 
New animated jetway system; add support for EGKK, EHAM, KDEN, KLAS, KSFO, 
 PANC, 717, AI 737, AI 744, AI MD-80

BTW, from my perspective, in the current state the submission wasn't
ready for inclusion as a whole. Please, whoever did the commit, please
consider reading:

  
http://mapserver.flightgear.org/git/gitweb.pl?p=fgdata;a=blob_plain;f=Models/00README.CONTRIBUTE

Yes, there _is_ a copy of this file in your local clone of the Base
Package  ;-)

Martin.
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[Flightgear-devel] Crash in latest GIT/master

2011-06-02 Thread Roland Häder
Hi all,

I got a crash in latest GIT/master of fgfs.

For further stuff, see this pastebin:
http://pastebin.com/1hxrhE5n

Games like WarZone2100 and GL-117 are working (so no faulty OpenGL),
glxinfo shows the usual output.

Any help is warmly welcomed. :)

Regards,
Roland



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[Flightgear-devel] 3d model orientation

2011-06-02 Thread Curtis Olson
Hi,

I have a question.

I have a 3d model of an aircraft that I want to rotate in roll, pitch, and
yaw just like any other aircraft.  I also have stream lines from a CFD
program that I would like to display at the same time over the top of the
model. (Hi Matthias) :-)

My aircraft is a skydiver and the way the 3d model and FDM are setup, it
basically falls straight nose down (pitch -90) so that alpha is close to
zero.  (The 3d model is adjusted so that it is in the correct pose when
falling.  When pitch and roll are zero it is standing straight up and down
... so nose over to a -90 degree pitch angle and he is falling face down
like he should be.)

The streamlines basically need to stay vertical no matter what the
orientation the 3d model is at since we are always falling pretty much
straight down or close enough.

I had been copying off some of our fake shadow hacks to rotate the
streamline model in -roll and -pitch to keep it aligned straight up and
down.  That almost works -- except most of the time we are flying very near
a pitch angle of -90.  This puts us at a euler angle singularity.  What
happens is that the streamlines stay properly positioned straight up and
down as I intend, but as we get closer and closer to that magic pitch angle
of exactly straight down, the heading angle starts to blow up.  The result
is that the streamline heading orientation doesn't track the model
orientation correctly and the errors get worse and worse the closer we are
to a pitch angle of -90.

Is there any other way to attach a sub model to the aircraft model, but
control the submodel orientation in NED space rather than having to hack a
transform opposite of the model roll/pitch angles?

Thanks,

Curt.
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[Flightgear-devel] FlightGear Mac OS X releases - 2.0.0-r284 and git-20110602

2011-06-02 Thread Tatsuhiro Nishioka
Hi there,

I've released two binary packages for Mac OS X, one for 2.0.0 and another for 
git (developer version) as of Jun-02-2011.
You can download these from:

http://macflightgear.sourceforge.net/home/downloads

For more detail, see a release note that comes with each package and the link 
below:
http://macflightgear.sourceforge.net/flightgear-mac-os-x-has-two-updates-for-official-and-developer-releases

Have a wonderful flight!

Tat

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http://macflightgear.sourceforge.net/


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[Flightgear-devel] [Fwd: Crash in latest GIT/master]

2011-06-02 Thread Roland Häder
Hi again,

I have found more:
http://pastebin.com/UrE81hNW

2.8.4 is latest stable release.

Roland

 Forwarded Message 
 I got a crash in latest GIT/master of fgfs.
 
 For further stuff, see this pastebin:
 http://pastebin.com/1hxrhE5n
 
 Games like WarZone2100 and GL-117 are working (so no faulty OpenGL),
 glxinfo shows the usual output.
 
 Any help is warmly welcomed. :)



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[Flightgear-devel] gnome 3 ?

2011-06-02 Thread Curtis Olson
Is anyone here running gnome 3 (and you would probably know if you were.)
:-)

I just loaded up Fedora 15 on a test machine and my first comment was
hmmm...  I haven't tried to get FlightGear running.  I guess I can't
imagine why it wouldn't run just fine although the desktop requires
accelerated opengl hardware so I hope there won't be too much competition
for resources when running FlightGear.

Does anyone have any feed back on issues or problems specific to the new
gnome 3 desktop scheme? Building/running FlightGear?

Looks like the linux desktop folks have stopped chasing windows and are now
chasing mac?   Quote from an online review: gnome 3 gives you any color
theme you like ... if you like black.

Is gnome 3 viable for real work?

I've heard gnome 3 and intuitive mentioned in the same sentence.  I
guess I'm going to have to go lookup the definition of intuitive again -- oh
here it is -- something that makes obvious sense after you've figured it
out. :-)

Curt.
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Curtis Olson:
http://www.atiak.com - http://aem.umn.edu/~uav/
http://www.flightgear.org - http://gallinazo.flightgear.org
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[Flightgear-devel] [Fwd: Crash in latest GIT/master]

2011-06-02 Thread Roland Häder
--enable-fullscreen causes this. :(

 Forwarded Message 
 Hi all,
 
 I got a crash in latest GIT/master of fgfs.
 
 For further stuff, see this pastebin:
 http://pastebin.com/1hxrhE5n
 
 Games like WarZone2100 and GL-117 are working (so no faulty OpenGL),
 glxinfo shows the usual output.
 
 Any help is warmly welcomed. :)
 
 Regards,
 Roland
 



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