Re: [Flightgear-devel] moving map of Hondajet or Da-42 // nextscenerygeneration
Am 04.11.11 08:35, schrieb Tuomas Kuosmanen: Hey folks.. How about using something like maps.cloudmade.com to create a custom styled openstreetmap tileset for a moving map? Alternatively a mapnik style could be created. There was a style for aviation paper chart in progress in openstreetmap wiki, maybe one cpuld be done for aviation moving maps (could be useful for real world as well). Cloudmade just makes it easy to experiment quickly with style and colors, and afaik they serve the tiles. //Tuomas Hi Tuomas Thanks for your proposal. Thats is something we already have for FlightGear, you can have a look here: http://map.fgx.ch. When you want to help please feel free to start to post some tickets for bugs/feature requests etc. in http://trac.fgx.ch/trac. You can also contribute of course to this small project. There is a bot running for getting the output of the mpservers, but this needs some overhaul the next weeks. Cheers, Yves -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] cmake
On 4 Nov 2011, at 00:41, Jon Stockill wrote: I believe it's FG_DATA_DIR, as observed here: https://gitorious.org/fg/flightgear/commit/4b8ef9c3cf4f4f3565de3678cd733ad8067be6d9 Thanks - that worked (well, it returns the correct details when you run cmake with that option, I've yet to test the resulting binary). It's not mentioned anywhere in ccmake though. The problem is, I'm not sure how to document a variable, that is not an 'option' (options must be booleans, as I understand it) I'm also unsure (I had to guess) what the default value should be. I looked at the autoconf docs, and the answer seems to be /$PREFIX/lib/$PKGNAME, hence my defaulting to the same for cmake ... but I can use anything else sane that people prefer. James -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] cmake
On 3 Nov 2011, at 23:05, Jon Stockill wrote: There's doesn't seem to be any way to enable the jpg-httpd server. (Under autoconf it was enabled by default if Simgear was built with jpeg factory support). -DJPEG_FACTORY=1 ... except, hmm, that only seems to exist for Simgear let me check that one :) make install no longer installs the manpages. Ooops, that's my fault indeed, will fix. Thanks for the feedback! James -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] moving map of Hondajet or Da-42 // nextscenerygeneration
Am 03.11.11 20:46, schrieb Alan Teeder: I have now copied everything to https://gitorious.org/fg-ajt, which should speed things up. Alan Hi Alan Thanks for uploading this tiles to gitorious. Can you say something about the box (in coords) this tiles cover exactly ? I am going to run some small tests with this data, re-georeferencing. Cheers, Yves -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] moving map of Hondajet or Da-42 // nextscenerygeneration
Am 04.11.11 10:06, schrieb HB-GRAL: Am 03.11.11 20:46, schrieb Alan Teeder: I have now copied everything to https://gitorious.org/fg-ajt, which should speed things up. Alan Hi Alan Thanks for uploading this tiles to gitorious. Can you say something about the box (in coords) this tiles cover exactly ? I am going to run some small tests with this data, re-georeferencing. Cheers, Yves Arghh, just noticed that I can check the filenames and get box I need. Sorry. Yves -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] moving map of Hondajet or Da-42 //nextscenerygeneration
-Original Message- From: HB-GRAL Sent: Friday, November 04, 2011 8:29 AM To: FlightGear developers discussions Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] moving map of Hondajet or Da-42 //nextscenerygeneration Thanks for your proposal. Thats is something we already have for FlightGear, you can have a look here: http://map.fgx.ch. When you want to help please feel free to start to post some tickets for bugs/feature requests etc. in http://trac.fgx.ch/trac. You can also contribute of course to this small project. There is a bot running for getting the output of the mpservers, but this needs some overhaul the next weeks. Cheers, Yves -- That looks very impressive! A vast improvement on the Atlas-map-ZKV1000 route that I am currently using. Is there a possibility of adding Lat-Long grid lines? It looks almost ready for deployment. No doubt someone will come along again and say that FG can´t use Openstreet maps. ;-) Alan -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] moving map of Hondajet or Da-42 //nextscenerygeneration
Yves The ZKV1000 tiles are the same as Atlas tiles, with the addition of parts of the adjoining tiles to ease the problem of flying near tile edges. Alan -Original Message- From: HB-GRAL Sent: Friday, November 04, 2011 9:09 AM To: FlightGear developers discussions Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] moving map of Hondajet or Da-42 //nextscenerygeneration Am 04.11.11 10:06, schrieb HB-GRAL: Am 03.11.11 20:46, schrieb Alan Teeder: I have now copied everything to https://gitorious.org/fg-ajt, which should speed things up. Alan Hi Alan Thanks for uploading this tiles to gitorious. Can you say something about the box (in coords) this tiles cover exactly ? I am going to run some small tests with this data, re-georeferencing. Cheers, Yves Arghh, just noticed that I can check the filenames and get box I need. Sorry. Yves -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] cmake
Hi James, On 4 Nov 2011, at 00:41, Jon Stockill wrote: I believe it's FG_DATA_DIR, as observed here: https://gitorious.org/fg/flightgear/commit/4b8ef9c3cf4f4f3565de3678cd733ad8067be6d9 Thanks - that worked (well, it returns the correct details when you run cmake with that option, I've yet to test the resulting binary). It's not mentioned anywhere in ccmake though. The problem is, I'm not sure how to document a variable, that is not an 'option' (options must be booleans, as I understand it) I think it's the SET option. You can check MSVC_3RDPARTY_ROOT for an example. Regards, -Fred -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] moving map of Hondajet or Da-42
Alan Teeder wrote: Is there a possibility of adding Lat-Long grid lines? It looks almost ready for deployment. Yes. No doubt someone will come along again and say that FG can??t use Openstreet maps. ;-) Nobody says FG can't use OSM, it always depends on what you're using, how you're using it and how you're distributing the result. People tend to post a lot of nonsense to The Web Forum, therefore, in case of doubt, I'd always recommend to read the authoritative sources. Cheers, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] Compiler error FlightGear 2.4 in VS2008
Hi All, I download the source code in official page, the tgz file but not from git, I compiler the source code but some error in FligtGear project Fatal error C1083: cannot open file “Include/no_version.h” : No such file or directory So, has anybody meet this problem before? -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Compiler error FlightGear 2.4 in VS2008
Hi, please read the README.MSVC files in Docs-mini/ Regards, -Fred - Mail original - Hi All, I download the source code in official page, the tgz file but not from git, I compiler the source code but some error in FligtGear project Fatal error C1083: cannot open file “Include/no_version.h” : No such file or directory So, has anybody meet this problem before? -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] Broken fgadmin
Hi all,
I have maybe fixed the find procedure for fgadmin, see attached patch
for it. On my Debian system, FLTK_BIN_DIR is unset. If I use
FLTK_FLUID_EXECUTABLE as shown in the patch, the script finally wants to
compile fgadmin but ends up with error messages. Please see attached
logfile for details.
Regards,
Roland
diff --git a/utils/CMakeLists.txt b/utils/CMakeLists.txt
index 07d539f..4242297 100644
--- a/utils/CMakeLists.txt
+++ b/utils/CMakeLists.txt
@@ -3,7 +3,7 @@ add_subdirectory(fgviewer)
add_subdirectory(GPSsmooth)
if (FLTK_FOUND)
-if (EXISTS ${FLTK_BIN_DIR}/fluid)
+if (EXISTS ${FLTK_FLUID_EXECUTABLE})
add_subdirectory(fgadmin)
else ()
message(STATUS fluid executable not found, disabling fgadmin)
/home/quix0r/fgfs/fgfs-base/flightgear/utils/fgadmin/src/fgadmin_funcs.cxx: In member function ‘void FGAdminUI::update_install_box()’:
/home/quix0r/fgfs/fgfs-base/flightgear/utils/fgadmin/src/fgadmin_funcs.cxx:171:41: warning: comparison between signed and unsigned integer expressions [-Wsign-compare]
/home/quix0r/fgfs/fgfs-base/flightgear/utils/fgadmin/src/fgadmin_funcs.cxx: In member function ‘void FGAdminUI::install_selected()’:
/home/quix0r/fgfs/fgfs-base/flightgear/utils/fgadmin/src/fgadmin_funcs.cxx:258:25: error: aggregate ‘FGAdminUI::install_selected()::stat info’ has incomplete type and cannot be defined
/home/quix0r/fgfs/fgfs-base/flightgear/utils/fgadmin/src/fgadmin_funcs.cxx:259:48: error: ‘fl_stat’ was not declared in this scope
/home/quix0r/fgfs/fgfs-base/flightgear/utils/fgadmin/src/fgadmin_funcs.cxx: At global scope:
/home/quix0r/fgfs/fgfs-base/flightgear/utils/fgadmin/src/fgadmin_funcs.cxx:127:12: warning: ‘int stringCompare(const void*, const void*)’ defined but not used [-Wunused-function]
make[2]: *** [utils/fgadmin/src/CMakeFiles/fgadmin.dir/fgadmin_funcs.cxx.o] Error 1
make[1]: *** [utils/fgadmin/src/CMakeFiles/fgadmin.dir/all] Error 2
make: *** [all] Error 2
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[Flightgear-devel] Developer(s) wanted for Tower Control Simulator based on FG
Dear All, I am looking for a developer(s) to design/implement a proof of concept ATC tower simulator using FG. There quite a few commercial solutions( http://www.micronav.co.uk/products/brochures.htm ) out there and I think it would be viable for FG to be used in this field( Air traffic controller Tower training) successfully and with reduced cost. There is a nominal payment for the developer, nothing much, since this is just a proof of concept and a way to perhaps kick-start interest in the project. Of-course all code will be open source and any modifications to FG will be submitted to the project for review. If you are interested or have in mind someone that might be interested please let me know so we can discuss this further. Regards, Efty -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Developer(s) wanted for Tower Control Simulator based on FG
Aren't the ATC models not enough? E.g. the ATC-ML [1] which is enhanced by jomo is quite good. Regards, Roland [1]: http://www.emmerich-j.de/FGFS/index.html signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Broken fgadmin
- Mail original - Hi all, I have maybe fixed the find procedure for fgadmin, see attached patch for it. On my Debian system, FLTK_BIN_DIR is unset. If I use FLTK_FLUID_EXECUTABLE as shown in the patch, the script finally wants to compile fgadmin but ends up with error messages. Please see attached logfile for details. It is in git now. Thanks -Fred -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Developer(s) wanted for Tower Control Simulator based on FG
Hi Roland, What I am proposing is a Tower Control Simulator for the Controller and not the Pilot. Typically in such cases one or more pilots will control several airplanes according to instructions provide to them from the controller. Depending on the type of control different instructions might be given and so forth. Some of the features should be the following a) ability to control multiple airplanes By Control I mean the following but not limited to heading, cleared altitude/level, rate of climb/descent, heading to a waypoint, instruct plane to perform a specific instrument approach procedure or proceed visually if requested by pilot, force a go-around, the plane should be able to land on its own. b) ability to control vehicles in the airport, ie simulate runway incursions , maintenance work etc c) simulate emergencies unusual situations ie, flapless approach, engine failure, bird strike etc Anyway the above is not a complete list of what a proper tower simulator should be from the controllers perspective but as a proof of concept i would say that A and B are a must. Regards, Efty On Fri, Nov 4, 2011 at 10:26 PM, Roland Häder r.hae...@gmx.de wrote: Aren't the ATC models not enough? E.g. the ATC-ML [1] which is enhanced by jomo is quite good. Regards, Roland [1]: http://www.emmerich-j.de/FGFS/index.html -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Broken fgadmin
[...] compile fgadmin but ends up with error messages. Please see attached logfile for details. It is in git now. Thanks -Fred Thanks for checking it in. Still fgadmin is broken. Can someone please take a look at this? Roland signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Broken fgadmin
- Mail original - [...] compile fgadmin but ends up with error messages. Please see attached logfile for details. It is in git now. Thanks -Fred Thanks for checking it in. Still fgadmin is broken. Can someone please take a look at this? not for me : http://flightgear.simpits.org:8080/job/FlightGear-Win-Cmake/ws/install/msvc100/FlightGear/bin/fgadmin.exe Please be more specific Regards, -Fred -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Broken fgadmin
On Sat, 2011-11-05 at 00:29 +0100, Frederic Bouvier wrote: - Mail original - [...] compile fgadmin but ends up with error messages. Please see attached logfile for details. It is in git now. Thanks -Fred Thanks for checking it in. Still fgadmin is broken. Can someone please take a look at this? not for me : http://flightgear.simpits.org:8080/job/FlightGear-Win-Cmake/ws/install/msvc100/FlightGear/bin/fgadmin.exe Please be more specific Regards, -Fred I'm getting compiler errors. Please see attached logfiles (I already attached it last mail, you maybe haven't seen it). Regards, Roland /home/quix0r/fgfs/fgfs-base/flightgear/utils/fgadmin/src/fgadmin_funcs.cxx: In member function ‘void FGAdminUI::update_install_box()’: /home/quix0r/fgfs/fgfs-base/flightgear/utils/fgadmin/src/fgadmin_funcs.cxx:171:41: warning: comparison between signed and unsigned integer expressions [-Wsign-compare] /home/quix0r/fgfs/fgfs-base/flightgear/utils/fgadmin/src/fgadmin_funcs.cxx: In member function ‘void FGAdminUI::install_selected()’: /home/quix0r/fgfs/fgfs-base/flightgear/utils/fgadmin/src/fgadmin_funcs.cxx:258:25: error: aggregate ‘FGAdminUI::install_selected()::stat info’ has incomplete type and cannot be defined /home/quix0r/fgfs/fgfs-base/flightgear/utils/fgadmin/src/fgadmin_funcs.cxx:259:48: error: ‘fl_stat’ was not declared in this scope /home/quix0r/fgfs/fgfs-base/flightgear/utils/fgadmin/src/fgadmin_funcs.cxx: At global scope: /home/quix0r/fgfs/fgfs-base/flightgear/utils/fgadmin/src/fgadmin_funcs.cxx:127:12: warning: ‘int stringCompare(const void*, const void*)’ defined but not used [-Wunused-function] make[2]: *** [utils/fgadmin/src/CMakeFiles/fgadmin.dir/fgadmin_funcs.cxx.o] Error 1 make[1]: *** [utils/fgadmin/src/CMakeFiles/fgadmin.dir/all] Error 2 make: *** [all] Error 2 signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Developer(s) wanted for Tower Control Simulator based on FG
On Sat, 2011-11-05 at 01:05 +0200, Eftychios Eftychiou wrote: Hi Roland, What I am proposing is a Tower Control Simulator for the Controller and not the Pilot. Typically in such cases one or more pilots will control several airplanes according to instructions provide to them from the controller. Depending on the type of control different instructions might be given and so forth. Some of the features should be the following a) ability to control multiple airplanes By Control I mean the following but not limited to heading, cleared altitude/level, rate of climb/descent, heading to a waypoint, instruct plane to perform a specific instrument approach procedure or proceed visually if requested by pilot, force a go-around, the plane should be able to land on its own. b) ability to control vehicles in the airport, ie simulate runway incursions , maintenance work etc c) simulate emergencies unusual situations ie, flapless approach, engine failure, bird strike etc Anyway the above is not a complete list of what a proper tower simulator should be from the controllers perspective but as a proof of concept i would say that A and B are a must. Regards, Efty Yes, maybe most of those features are already implemented in the ATC-ML model. Please take a look at these screen shots which I made with latest GIT: http://flightgear.mxchange.org/pub/screenshots-master/fgfs-screen-023.png http://flightgear.mxchange.org/pub/screenshots-master/fgfs-screen-024.png http://flightgear.mxchange.org/pub/screenshots-master/fgfs-screen-026.png It may not show all features, but it shows e.g. that you handle multiple airplanes. So maybe just this aircraft needs some extending/expanding or some missing features being added and not a whole simulation based in FGFS needs to be written. The controls in 023.png are for sending pre-defined messages to a pilot (or some to all airmen). The last shows (upper right corner) a screen when you have clicked on one pilot name (from the list in 023.png) or on empty space (e.g. to send it to all airmen). Regards, Roland signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] cmake osx
Hi James I successfully built simgear/flightgear today with cmake 2.8.4 and OSX 10.6.8. There have been some small changes I added to CMakeLists for sg/fg: SET(CMAKE_CXX_FLAGS -arch i386) and SET(CMAKE_C_FLAGS -arch i386). I am sure there is a better way to set this flags with cmake. Many thanks, Cheers, Yves -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] cmake osx
On Sat, 2011-11-05 at 01:31 +0100, HB-GRAL wrote: Hi James I successfully built simgear/flightgear today with cmake 2.8.4 and OSX 10.6.8. There have been some small changes I added to CMakeLists for sg/fg: SET(CMAKE_CXX_FLAGS -arch i386) and SET(CMAKE_C_FLAGS -arch i386). I am sure there is a better way to set this flags with cmake. Many thanks, Cheers, Yves Hi Yves, yes there is. Use environmental variables. E.g. create a script named reconfigure.sh and put this in: #!/bin/sh CFLAGS=-g -O3 -fPIC -arch i386 CXXFLAGS=-g -O3 -fPIC -arch i386 cmake ../../simgear \ -DJPEG_FACTORY=1 \ -DCMAKE_INSTALL_PREFIX=/opt #[EOF] Hope this works. Regards, Roland signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
