Re: [Flightgear-devel] An aircraft which sink ! Yes, with FG that is possible.
On Wed, 12 Nov 2008 14:07:12 +0100, gerard wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On mercredi 12 novembre 2008, Arnt Karlsen wrote: On Wed, 12 Nov 2008 12:08:26 +0100, gerard wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On mercredi 12 novembre 2008, Arnt Karlsen wrote: On Wed, 12 Nov 2008 03:36:53 +0100, gerard wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On mercredi 12 novembre 2008, Arnt Karlsen wrote: On Wed, 12 Nov 2008 02:22:12 +0100, gerard wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hello It is not the Concorde , nor the Titannic only the Crusader which sink. I have just updated the FDM of the F-8E Crusader, which will sink if you try to land on water. It only pretend to show that is possible to simulate an aircraft which sink when on the water. It is NOT an animation but the real behavior controlled by the FDM (JSBSim) First stage the aircraft is sliding on the water. http://pagesperso-orange.fr/GRTux/Cruse-sink-stage1.jpg Second stage (20 sec later) the Aircraft is stopped , it begin to sink. http://pagesperso-orange.fr/GRTux/Cruse-sink-stage2.jpg ..once water bangs in thru that big hole up front, wouldn't it rip up the airframe? In reality the pilot should have pulled the jettison handle, the canopy is then ejected, just before the pilot himself. Which happened :( mainly after catapulting ( defect of power) This could be part of an animation with submodel ( it could be an other story) I had done it some years ago but was never included. Third stage (10 sec later) , the nose and the cockpit are in the water http://pagesperso-orange.fr/GRTux/Cruse-sink-stage3.jpg Forth stage (10 sec later), now there nothing to be done only the tail can be seen. http://pagesperso-orange.fr/GRTux/Cruse-sink-stage4.jpg You can experience that process with the Crusader from CVS, last update (NOW) Remember you must touch the water at low speed. You may do it with landing gear down ( though, any real pilot will tell you, to do it, gear up) Here it was done gears down ..this is just your screen shots and not the French Navy F-8E ditch policy??? The F-8 is no Cub where you _can_ do idiot stunts like aquaplane taxiing in RL if you lock the brakes before touchdown on water. How many seconds does a F-8 ditch take from touchdown to fin under water? I never got any precise answer from my friends, in any case it was very short. These aircraft are not boats :) ..aye, I'd be guessing 2 to 5 seconds, _maybe_ 10, _not_ 20, in the full-load launch ditches. ;o) ( only to prove that we don't walk on the sea :) ) Beware a too high speed will act the crash and freeze FG. When the aircraft stop to slide on the water, the process will start , it takes about 40 seconds ..40 seconds??? Greasy slick water and playing high speed water ski without messy draggy stuff under the wings and the belly? How slow can they get before they scoop in that ton of water trashing the compressor etc? Oh, yes, this was only to demonstrate the process, being understandable by some low speed mind, like mine; And to avoid any further remarks like that one = No, a Concorde doesn't sink if the nose is above water, as long as the tyres aren't. ;-) The answer is yes we can :) . ..good to know, but now I got this stubborn image of the Concorde complying to the airliners float time certification requirements by using its wheels like Jesus used his feet. ;o) I am not the Concorde Author ( i would like, i will never be able to make a such FDM quality) ..yes you can, Insh'Allah! ;o) i cannot give the right answer. In anycase every JSBSim FDM aircraft could receive, now, the right parameters in order to avoid the 'Jesus' behavior on water. We must understand that the first priority, with Models using that FDM is to create the closest Aero specifications of the real Aircraft (most of them coming from wind tunnel measurement ). There is a lot of model which answer fully, the request ( Concorde , Boeing314, Lockheed1049, F16 . ) they are professional, any other addition (eye candy, animation which look like a game...) is less important. ..some of these problems walk away once we model water as a fluid like we do with air now, with density, viscosity etc, instead creating a need for more accurate air frame structural models, so we can simulate the airframe filling with water as it sinks, and then fly it, or its pieces down to the seabed. With fluid water, we need a seabed model to contain it. Another can of fish bait. ;o) Any FDM parameters can be modified ,
Re: [Flightgear-devel] An aircraft which sink ! Yes, with FG that is possible.
On mercredi 12 novembre 2008, Arnt Karlsen wrote: On Wed, 12 Nov 2008 03:36:53 +0100, gerard wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On mercredi 12 novembre 2008, Arnt Karlsen wrote: On Wed, 12 Nov 2008 02:22:12 +0100, gerard wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hello It is not the Concorde , nor the Titannic only the Crusader which sink. I have just updated the FDM of the F-8E Crusader, which will sink if you try to land on water. It only pretend to show that is possible to simulate an aircraft which sink when on the water. It is NOT an animation but the real behavior controlled by the FDM (JSBSim) First stage the aircraft is sliding on the water. http://pagesperso-orange.fr/GRTux/Cruse-sink-stage1.jpg Second stage (20 sec later) the Aircraft is stopped , it begin to sink. http://pagesperso-orange.fr/GRTux/Cruse-sink-stage2.jpg ..once water bangs in thru that big hole up front, wouldn't it rip up the airframe? In reality the pilot should have pulled the jettison handle, the canopy is then ejected, just before the pilot himself. Which happened :( mainly after catapulting ( defect of power) This could be part of an animation with submodel ( it could be an other story) I had done it some years ago but was never included. Third stage (10 sec later) , the nose and the cockpit are in the water http://pagesperso-orange.fr/GRTux/Cruse-sink-stage3.jpg Forth stage (10 sec later), now there nothing to be done only the tail can be seen. http://pagesperso-orange.fr/GRTux/Cruse-sink-stage4.jpg You can experience that process with the Crusader from CVS, last update (NOW) Remember you must touch the water at low speed. You may do it with landing gear down ( though, any real pilot will tell you, to do it, gear up) Here it was done gears down ..this is just your screen shots and not the French Navy F-8E ditch policy??? The F-8 is no Cub where you _can_ do idiot stunts like aquaplane taxiing in RL if you lock the brakes before touchdown on water. How many seconds does a F-8 ditch take from touchdown to fin under water? I never got any precise answer from my friends, in any case it was very short. These aircraft are not boats :) ..aye, I'd be guessing 2 to 5 seconds, _maybe_ 10, _not_ 20, in the full-load launch ditches. ;o) ( only to prove that we don't walk on the sea :) ) Beware a too high speed will act the crash and freeze FG. When the aircraft stop to slide on the water, the process will start , it takes about 40 seconds ..40 seconds??? Greasy slick water and playing high speed water ski without messy draggy stuff under the wings and the belly? How slow can they get before they scoop in that ton of water trashing the compressor etc? Oh, yes, this was only to demonstrate the process, being understandable by some low speed mind, like mine; And to avoid any further remarks like that one = No, a Concorde doesn't sink if the nose is above water, as long as the tyres aren't. ;-) The answer is yes we can :) . Any FDM parameters can be modified , so we could get a very smooth sinking, and some others behavior, if wanted. Cheers -- Gérard http://pagesperso-orange.fr/GRTux/ J'ai décidé d'être heureux parce que c'est bon pour la santé. Voltaire - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] An aircraft which sink ! Yes, with FG that is possible.
On mercredi 12 novembre 2008, Arnt Karlsen wrote: On Wed, 12 Nov 2008 14:07:12 +0100, gerard wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On mercredi 12 novembre 2008, Arnt Karlsen wrote: On Wed, 12 Nov 2008 12:08:26 +0100, gerard wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On mercredi 12 novembre 2008, Arnt Karlsen wrote: On Wed, 12 Nov 2008 03:36:53 +0100, gerard wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On mercredi 12 novembre 2008, Arnt Karlsen wrote: On Wed, 12 Nov 2008 02:22:12 +0100, gerard wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hello It is not the Concorde , nor the Titannic only the Crusader which sink. I have just updated the FDM of the F-8E Crusader, which will sink if you try to land on water. It only pretend to show that is possible to simulate an aircraft which sink when on the water. It is NOT an animation but the real behavior controlled by the FDM (JSBSim) First stage the aircraft is sliding on the water. http://pagesperso-orange.fr/GRTux/Cruse-sink-stage1.jpg Second stage (20 sec later) the Aircraft is stopped , it begin to sink. http://pagesperso-orange.fr/GRTux/Cruse-sink-stage2.jpg ..once water bangs in thru that big hole up front, wouldn't it rip up the airframe? In reality the pilot should have pulled the jettison handle, the canopy is then ejected, just before the pilot himself. Which happened :( mainly after catapulting ( defect of power) This could be part of an animation with submodel ( it could be an other story) I had done it some years ago but was never included. Third stage (10 sec later) , the nose and the cockpit are in the water http://pagesperso-orange.fr/GRTux/Cruse-sink-stage3.jpg Forth stage (10 sec later), now there nothing to be done only the tail can be seen. http://pagesperso-orange.fr/GRTux/Cruse-sink-stage4.jpg You can experience that process with the Crusader from CVS, last update (NOW) Remember you must touch the water at low speed. You may do it with landing gear down ( though, any real pilot will tell you, to do it, gear up) Here it was done gears down ..this is just your screen shots and not the French Navy F-8E ditch policy??? The F-8 is no Cub where you _can_ do idiot stunts like aquaplane taxiing in RL if you lock the brakes before touchdown on water. How many seconds does a F-8 ditch take from touchdown to fin under water? I never got any precise answer from my friends, in any case it was very short. These aircraft are not boats :) ..aye, I'd be guessing 2 to 5 seconds, _maybe_ 10, _not_ 20, in the full-load launch ditches. ;o) ( only to prove that we don't walk on the sea :) ) Beware a too high speed will act the crash and freeze FG. When the aircraft stop to slide on the water, the process will start , it takes about 40 seconds ..40 seconds??? Greasy slick water and playing high speed water ski without messy draggy stuff under the wings and the belly? How slow can they get before they scoop in that ton of water trashing the compressor etc? Oh, yes, this was only to demonstrate the process, being understandable by some low speed mind, like mine; And to avoid any further remarks like that one = No, a Concorde doesn't sink if the nose is above water, as long as the tyres aren't. ;-) The answer is yes we can :) . ..good to know, but now I got this stubborn image of the Concorde complying to the airliners float time certification requirements by using its wheels like Jesus used his feet. ;o) I am not the Concorde Author ( i would like, i will never be able to make a such FDM quality) ..yes you can, Insh'Allah! ;o) i cannot give the right answer. In anycase every JSBSim FDM aircraft could receive, now, the right parameters in order to avoid the 'Jesus' behavior on water. We must understand that the first priority, with Models using that FDM is to create the closest Aero specifications of the real Aircraft (most of them coming from wind tunnel measurement ). There is a lot of model which answer fully, the request ( Concorde , Boeing314, Lockheed1049, F16 . ) they are professional, any other addition (eye candy, animation which look like a game...) is less important. ..some of these problems walk away once we model water as a fluid like we do with air now, with density, viscosity etc, instead creating a need for more accurate air frame structural models, so we can simulate the airframe filling with water as it sinks, and then fly it, or its
Re: [Flightgear-devel] An aircraft which sink ! Yes, with FG that is possible.
On mercredi 12 novembre 2008, gerard robin wrote: On mercredi 12 novembre 2008, Arnt Karlsen wrote: On Wed, 12 Nov 2008 14:07:12 +0100, gerard wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On mercredi 12 novembre 2008, Arnt Karlsen wrote: On Wed, 12 Nov 2008 12:08:26 +0100, gerard wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On mercredi 12 novembre 2008, Arnt Karlsen wrote: On Wed, 12 Nov 2008 03:36:53 +0100, gerard wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On mercredi 12 novembre 2008, Arnt Karlsen wrote: On Wed, 12 Nov 2008 02:22:12 +0100, gerard wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hello It is not the Concorde , nor the Titannic only the Crusader which sink. I have just updated the FDM of the F-8E Crusader, which will sink if you try to land on water. It only pretend to show that is possible to simulate an aircraft which sink when on the water. It is NOT an animation but the real behavior controlled by the FDM (JSBSim) First stage the aircraft is sliding on the water. http://pagesperso-orange.fr/GRTux/Cruse-sink-stage1.jpg Second stage (20 sec later) the Aircraft is stopped , it begin to sink. http://pagesperso-orange.fr/GRTux/Cruse-sink-stage2.jpg ..once water bangs in thru that big hole up front, wouldn't it rip up the airframe? In reality the pilot should have pulled the jettison handle, the canopy is then ejected, just before the pilot himself. Which happened :( mainly after catapulting ( defect of power) This could be part of an animation with submodel ( it could be an other story) I had done it some years ago but was never included. Third stage (10 sec later) , the nose and the cockpit are in the water http://pagesperso-orange.fr/GRTux/Cruse-sink-stage3.jpg Forth stage (10 sec later), now there nothing to be done only the tail can be seen. http://pagesperso-orange.fr/GRTux/Cruse-sink-stage4.jpg You can experience that process with the Crusader from CVS, last update (NOW) Remember you must touch the water at low speed. You may do it with landing gear down ( though, any real pilot will tell you, to do it, gear up) Here it was done gears down ..this is just your screen shots and not the French Navy F-8E ditch policy??? The F-8 is no Cub where you _can_ do idiot stunts like aquaplane taxiing in RL if you lock the brakes before touchdown on water. How many seconds does a F-8 ditch take from touchdown to fin under water? I never got any precise answer from my friends, in any case it was very short. These aircraft are not boats :) ..aye, I'd be guessing 2 to 5 seconds, _maybe_ 10, _not_ 20, in the full-load launch ditches. ;o) ( only to prove that we don't walk on the sea :) ) Beware a too high speed will act the crash and freeze FG. When the aircraft stop to slide on the water, the process will start , it takes about 40 seconds ..40 seconds??? Greasy slick water and playing high speed water ski without messy draggy stuff under the wings and the belly? How slow can they get before they scoop in that ton of water trashing the compressor etc? Oh, yes, this was only to demonstrate the process, being understandable by some low speed mind, like mine; And to avoid any further remarks like that one = No, a Concorde doesn't sink if the nose is above water, as long as the tyres aren't. ;-) The answer is yes we can :) . ..good to know, but now I got this stubborn image of the Concorde complying to the airliners float time certification requirements by using its wheels like Jesus used his feet. ;o) I am not the Concorde Author ( i would like, i will never be able to make a such FDM quality) ..yes you can, Insh'Allah! ;o) i cannot give the right answer. In anycase every JSBSim FDM aircraft could receive, now, the right parameters in order to avoid the 'Jesus' behavior on water. We must understand that the first priority, with Models using that FDM is to create the closest Aero specifications of the real Aircraft (most of them coming from wind tunnel measurement ). There is a lot of model which answer fully, the request ( Concorde , Boeing314, Lockheed1049, F16 . ) they are professional, any other addition (eye candy, animation which look like a game...) is less important. ..some of these problems walk away once we model water as a fluid like we do with air now, with density, viscosity
Re: [Flightgear-devel] An aircraft which sink ! Yes, with FG that is possible.
Somewhat off topic. Has anyone done the 'ground vehicle AI' for these water environments? In the Florida area, for example, they have a long scaly body and large jaws ... - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] An aircraft which sink ! Yes, with FG that is possible.
On mercredi 12 novembre 2008, Alex Perry wrote: Somewhat off topic. Has anyone done the 'ground vehicle AI' for these water environments? In the Florida area, for example, they have a long scaly body and large jaws ... That could be done, does these vehicles water only ? or both water and solid ground ? -- Gérard http://pagesperso-orange.fr/GRTux/ J'ai décidé d'être heureux parce que c'est bon pour la santé. Voltaire - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] An aircraft which sink ! Yes, with FG that is possible.
On Wed, 12 Nov 2008 18:02:45 +0100, gerard wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On mercredi 12 novembre 2008, gerard robin wrote: On mercredi 12 novembre 2008, Arnt Karlsen wrote: On Wed, 12 Nov 2008 14:07:12 +0100, gerard wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On mercredi 12 novembre 2008, Arnt Karlsen wrote: On Wed, 12 Nov 2008 12:08:26 +0100, gerard wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On mercredi 12 novembre 2008, Arnt Karlsen wrote: On Wed, 12 Nov 2008 03:36:53 +0100, gerard wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On mercredi 12 novembre 2008, Arnt Karlsen wrote: On Wed, 12 Nov 2008 02:22:12 +0100, gerard wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hello It is not the Concorde , nor the Titannic only the Crusader which sink. I have just updated the FDM of the F-8E Crusader, which will sink if you try to land on water. It only pretend to show that is possible to simulate an aircraft which sink when on the water. It is NOT an animation but the real behavior controlled by the FDM (JSBSim) First stage the aircraft is sliding on the water. http://pagesperso-orange.fr/GRTux/Cruse-sink-stage1.jpg Second stage (20 sec later) the Aircraft is stopped , it begin to sink. http://pagesperso-orange.fr/GRTux/Cruse-sink-stage2.jpg ..once water bangs in thru that big hole up front, wouldn't it rip up the airframe? In reality the pilot should have pulled the jettison handle, the canopy is then ejected, just before the pilot himself. Which happened :( mainly after catapulting ( defect of power) This could be part of an animation with submodel ( it could be an other story) I had done it some years ago but was never included. Third stage (10 sec later) , the nose and the cockpit are in the water http://pagesperso-orange.fr/GRTux/Cruse-sink-stage3.jpg Forth stage (10 sec later), now there nothing to be done only the tail can be seen. http://pagesperso-orange.fr/GRTux/Cruse-sink-stage4.jpg You can experience that process with the Crusader from CVS, last update (NOW) Remember you must touch the water at low speed. You may do it with landing gear down ( though, any real pilot will tell you, to do it, gear up) Here it was done gears down ..this is just your screen shots and not the French Navy F-8E ditch policy??? The F-8 is no Cub where you _can_ do idiot stunts like aquaplane taxiing in RL if you lock the brakes before touchdown on water. How many seconds does a F-8 ditch take from touchdown to fin under water? I never got any precise answer from my friends, in any case it was very short. These aircraft are not boats :) ..aye, I'd be guessing 2 to 5 seconds, _maybe_ 10, _not_ 20, in the full-load launch ditches. ;o) ( only to prove that we don't walk on the sea :) ) Beware a too high speed will act the crash and freeze FG. When the aircraft stop to slide on the water, the process will start , it takes about 40 seconds ..40 seconds??? Greasy slick water and playing high speed water ski without messy draggy stuff under the wings and the belly? How slow can they get before they scoop in that ton of water trashing the compressor etc? Oh, yes, this was only to demonstrate the process, being understandable by some low speed mind, like mine; And to avoid any further remarks like that one = No, a Concorde doesn't sink if the nose is above water, as long as the tyres aren't. ;-) The answer is yes we can :) . ..good to know, but now I got this stubborn image of the Concorde complying to the airliners float time certification requirements by using its wheels like Jesus used his feet. ;o) I am not the Concorde Author ( i would like, i will never be able to make a such FDM quality) ..yes you can, Insh'Allah! ;o) i cannot give the right answer. In anycase every JSBSim FDM aircraft could receive, now, the right parameters in order to avoid the 'Jesus' behavior on water. We must understand that the first priority, with Models using that FDM is to create the closest Aero specifications of the real Aircraft (most of them coming from wind tunnel measurement ). There is a lot of model which answer fully, the request ( Concorde , Boeing314, Lockheed1049, F16 . )
Re: [Flightgear-devel] An aircraft which sink ! Yes, with FG that is possible.
On mercredi 12 novembre 2008, Arnt Karlsen wrote: ..yup, it rotates around the nose leg, rather than dig in and flip over around some moving point that moves from the nose in an 3D arc up to around the wing spar area as it flips over. ..so, basically, you dig out a hole in the rock solid sea surface we model now, build a swimming pool around the plane, fill it with water, dunk in the Catalina etc boat planes that are supported by FDM water, and see what happens in the FDM. Then as the plane moves forward, new rock is blown out of the sea and moved aside as the FDM's swimming pool moves forward around the FDM, and backfilled and steam rolled in place behind where the FDM's swimming pool no longer needs to be. A fair bit wilder than the B-36's main gear scheme history. ;o) I confess that i don't understand that swimming pool story :) At a certain speed, the landing will dig partly in the water and being suddenly stopped due to the water resistance which is like concrete (easy to calculate), so the lever due to the intertia of the aircraft and the gear which is hold in water could make the aircraft to turn over the nose. We had a funny movie ( sorry don't find it ) was a C172 with floats and gear retractable under the floats. Unfortunately during landing on water the pilot forgot ( or did not remember) to retract the gear, and it happened which should happen the aircraft dug the nose in the water and turn over finishing the top down on the water. -- Gérard http://pagesperso-orange.fr/GRTux/ J'ai décidé d'être heureux parce que c'est bon pour la santé. Voltaire - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] An aircraft which sink ! Yes, with FG that is possible.
On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 02:14:30 +0100, gerard wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On mercredi 12 novembre 2008, Arnt Karlsen wrote: ..yup, it rotates around the nose leg, rather than dig in and flip over around some moving point that moves from the nose in an 3D arc up to around the wing spar area as it flips over. ..so, basically, you dig out a hole in the rock solid sea surface we model now, build a swimming pool around the plane, fill it with water, dunk in the Catalina etc boat planes that are supported by FDM water, and see what happens in the FDM. Then as the plane moves forward, new rock is blown out of the sea and moved aside as the FDM's swimming pool moves forward around the FDM, and backfilled and steam rolled in place behind where the FDM's swimming pool no longer needs to be. A fair bit wilder than the B-36's main gear scheme history. ;o) I confess that i don't understand that swimming pool story :) ..never mind, it works, and I guess most of it will work when we model water as a fluid too. ;o) At a certain speed, the landing will dig partly in the water and being suddenly stopped due to the water resistance which is like concrete (easy to calculate), so the lever due to the intertia of the aircraft and the gear which is hold in water could make the aircraft to turn over the nose. We had a funny movie ( sorry don't find it ) was a C172 with floats and gear retractable under the floats. Unfortunately during landing on water the pilot forgot ( or did not remember) to retract the gear, and it happened which should happen the aircraft dug the nose in the water and turn over finishing the top down on the water. ..that would be http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pucmWr55cgw ? ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] An aircraft which sink ! Yes, with FG that is possible.
Hello It is not the Concorde , nor the Titannic only the Crusader which sink. I have just updated the FDM of the F-8E Crusader, which will sink if you try to land on water. It only pretend to show that is possible to simulate an aircraft which sink when on the water. It is NOT an animation but the real behavior controlled by the FDM (JSBSim) First stage the aircraft is sliding on the water. http://pagesperso-orange.fr/GRTux/Cruse-sink-stage1.jpg Second stage (20 sec later) the Aircraft is stopped , it begin to sink. http://pagesperso-orange.fr/GRTux/Cruse-sink-stage2.jpg Third stage (10 sec later) , the nose and the cockpit are in the water http://pagesperso-orange.fr/GRTux/Cruse-sink-stage3.jpg Forth stage (10 sec later), now there nothing to be done only the tail can be seen. http://pagesperso-orange.fr/GRTux/Cruse-sink-stage4.jpg You can experience that process with the Crusader from CVS, last update (NOW) Remember you must touch the water at low speed. You may do it with landing gear down ( though, any real pilot will tell you, to do it, gear up) Here it was done gears down ( only to prove that we don't walk on the sea :) ) Beware a too high speed will act the crash and freeze FG. When the aircraft stop to slide on the water, the process will start , it takes about 40 seconds Any FDM parameters can be modified , so we could get a very smooth sinking, and some others behavior, if wanted. Cheers -- Gérard http://pagesperso-orange.fr/GRTux/ J'ai décidé d'être heureux parce que c'est bon pour la santé. Voltaire - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] An aircraft which sink ! Yes, with FG that is possible.
On Wed, 12 Nov 2008 02:22:12 +0100, gerard wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hello It is not the Concorde , nor the Titannic only the Crusader which sink. I have just updated the FDM of the F-8E Crusader, which will sink if you try to land on water. It only pretend to show that is possible to simulate an aircraft which sink when on the water. It is NOT an animation but the real behavior controlled by the FDM (JSBSim) First stage the aircraft is sliding on the water. http://pagesperso-orange.fr/GRTux/Cruse-sink-stage1.jpg Second stage (20 sec later) the Aircraft is stopped , it begin to sink. http://pagesperso-orange.fr/GRTux/Cruse-sink-stage2.jpg ..once water bangs in thru that big hole up front, wouldn't it rip up the airframe? Third stage (10 sec later) , the nose and the cockpit are in the water http://pagesperso-orange.fr/GRTux/Cruse-sink-stage3.jpg Forth stage (10 sec later), now there nothing to be done only the tail can be seen. http://pagesperso-orange.fr/GRTux/Cruse-sink-stage4.jpg You can experience that process with the Crusader from CVS, last update (NOW) Remember you must touch the water at low speed. You may do it with landing gear down ( though, any real pilot will tell you, to do it, gear up) Here it was done gears down ..this is just your screen shots and not the French Navy F-8E ditch policy??? The F-8 is no Cub where you _can_ do idiot stunts like aquaplane taxiing in RL if you lock the brakes before touchdown on water. How many seconds does a F-8 ditch take from touchdown to fin under water? ( only to prove that we don't walk on the sea :) ) Beware a too high speed will act the crash and freeze FG. When the aircraft stop to slide on the water, the process will start , it takes about 40 seconds Any FDM parameters can be modified , so we could get a very smooth sinking, and some others behavior, if wanted. Cheers -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] An aircraft which sink ! Yes, with FG that is possible.
On mercredi 12 novembre 2008, Arnt Karlsen wrote: On Wed, 12 Nov 2008 02:22:12 +0100, gerard wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hello It is not the Concorde , nor the Titannic only the Crusader which sink. I have just updated the FDM of the F-8E Crusader, which will sink if you try to land on water. It only pretend to show that is possible to simulate an aircraft which sink when on the water. It is NOT an animation but the real behavior controlled by the FDM (JSBSim) First stage the aircraft is sliding on the water. http://pagesperso-orange.fr/GRTux/Cruse-sink-stage1.jpg Second stage (20 sec later) the Aircraft is stopped , it begin to sink. http://pagesperso-orange.fr/GRTux/Cruse-sink-stage2.jpg ..once water bangs in thru that big hole up front, wouldn't it rip up the airframe? In reality the pilot should have pulled the jettison handle, the canopy is then ejected, just before the pilot himself. Which happened :( mainly after catapulting ( defect of power) This could be part of an animation with submodel ( it could be an other story) I had done it some years ago but was never included. Third stage (10 sec later) , the nose and the cockpit are in the water http://pagesperso-orange.fr/GRTux/Cruse-sink-stage3.jpg Forth stage (10 sec later), now there nothing to be done only the tail can be seen. http://pagesperso-orange.fr/GRTux/Cruse-sink-stage4.jpg You can experience that process with the Crusader from CVS, last update (NOW) Remember you must touch the water at low speed. You may do it with landing gear down ( though, any real pilot will tell you, to do it, gear up) Here it was done gears down ..this is just your screen shots and not the French Navy F-8E ditch policy??? The F-8 is no Cub where you _can_ do idiot stunts like aquaplane taxiing in RL if you lock the brakes before touchdown on water. How many seconds does a F-8 ditch take from touchdown to fin under water? I never got any precise answer from my friends, in any case it was very short. These aircraft are not boats :) ( only to prove that we don't walk on the sea :) ) Beware a too high speed will act the crash and freeze FG. When the aircraft stop to slide on the water, the process will start , it takes about 40 seconds Any FDM parameters can be modified , so we could get a very smooth sinking, and some others behavior, if wanted. Cheers -- Gérard http://pagesperso-orange.fr/GRTux/ J'ai décidé d'être heureux parce que c'est bon pour la santé. Voltaire - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] An aircraft which sink ! Yes, with FG that is possible.
On Wed, 12 Nov 2008 03:36:53 +0100, gerard wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On mercredi 12 novembre 2008, Arnt Karlsen wrote: On Wed, 12 Nov 2008 02:22:12 +0100, gerard wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hello It is not the Concorde , nor the Titannic only the Crusader which sink. I have just updated the FDM of the F-8E Crusader, which will sink if you try to land on water. It only pretend to show that is possible to simulate an aircraft which sink when on the water. It is NOT an animation but the real behavior controlled by the FDM (JSBSim) First stage the aircraft is sliding on the water. http://pagesperso-orange.fr/GRTux/Cruse-sink-stage1.jpg Second stage (20 sec later) the Aircraft is stopped , it begin to sink. http://pagesperso-orange.fr/GRTux/Cruse-sink-stage2.jpg ..once water bangs in thru that big hole up front, wouldn't it rip up the airframe? In reality the pilot should have pulled the jettison handle, the canopy is then ejected, just before the pilot himself. Which happened :( mainly after catapulting ( defect of power) This could be part of an animation with submodel ( it could be an other story) I had done it some years ago but was never included. Third stage (10 sec later) , the nose and the cockpit are in the water http://pagesperso-orange.fr/GRTux/Cruse-sink-stage3.jpg Forth stage (10 sec later), now there nothing to be done only the tail can be seen. http://pagesperso-orange.fr/GRTux/Cruse-sink-stage4.jpg You can experience that process with the Crusader from CVS, last update (NOW) Remember you must touch the water at low speed. You may do it with landing gear down ( though, any real pilot will tell you, to do it, gear up) Here it was done gears down ..this is just your screen shots and not the French Navy F-8E ditch policy??? The F-8 is no Cub where you _can_ do idiot stunts like aquaplane taxiing in RL if you lock the brakes before touchdown on water. How many seconds does a F-8 ditch take from touchdown to fin under water? I never got any precise answer from my friends, in any case it was very short. These aircraft are not boats :) ..aye, I'd be guessing 2 to 5 seconds, _maybe_ 10, _not_ 20, in the full-load launch ditches. ;o) ( only to prove that we don't walk on the sea :) ) Beware a too high speed will act the crash and freeze FG. When the aircraft stop to slide on the water, the process will start , it takes about 40 seconds ..40 seconds??? Greasy slick water and playing high speed water ski without messy draggy stuff under the wings and the belly? How slow can they get before they scoop in that ton of water trashing the compressor etc? Any FDM parameters can be modified , so we could get a very smooth sinking, and some others behavior, if wanted. Cheers -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
