Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightAware flight tracking
From: Martin Spott [EMAIL PROTECTED] Josh Babcock wrote: Sounds like a good reason to fly VFR. I wonder if they have considered the safety implications of this. I know in the US you can request that ATC watch you while you are flying VFR, but I don't know if you need to give your tail number when you do. I would guess that you do. We call this Flight Information Service, FIS - [...] In the US, you request VFR Flight Following from the ATC sector. If approved, you receive Traffic Advisory service (no separation). --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys -- and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightAware flight tracking
On Thu, 5 Oct 2006, Martin Spott wrote: Frederic Bouvier wrote: And don't tell me a PA28 is an airliner ;-) but hey, it is equipped with a mode S transponder, which only few light aircraft have nowadays (at least here in Germany), the Mode S code you see in the FAA registration is a reserved code for that particular tail number. In fact, a lot of transponders are not like that, and if you look up the tail number 33966 (an SGS 2-33A that I happen to have some time in), you'll discover an aircraft with a mode S code listed, but no transponder (actually, no electrical system at all) on board! However, if whenever in the future it is equipped to have one, the mechanic will use the particular mode S code reserved for this very aircraft to program into the hardware. Vassilii - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys -- and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightAware flight tracking
When you enter the airspace (or the roadways) you give up some of your privacy and freedoms and agree to play by a common set of rules ... usually for the sake of safety, or the environment, or justified for some greater common good. As far as I know, there is no mean for the public, to link a plate # to a owner's name. It is illegal here. Somewhat strangely, this information is public in the UK: http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?categoryid=60pagetype=65applicationid=1 -Stuart ___ Try the all-new Yahoo! Mail. The New Version is radically easier to use The Wall Street Journal http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys -- and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightAware flight tracking
Josh Babcock wrote: Sounds like a good reason to fly VFR. I wonder if they have considered the safety implications of this. I know in the US you can request that ATC watch you while you are flying VFR, but I don't know if you need to give your tail number when you do. I would guess that you do. We call this Flight Information Service, FIS - whose use is recommended but not mandantory. You call them by telling your call sign/registration (alias tail number), they give you a transponder squawk, a four digit number, in order to identify your radar response, and you have to listen on their frequency as long as you wish to stay under their surveillance. I'd be very surprised if this sort of service in the EU would be unique in the world. Still I'm pretty sure that your position data that is recorded at ATC is locked by privacy protection (at least in Old Europe ;-) Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys -- and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightAware flight tracking
Frederic Bouvier wrote: Selon Curtis L. Olson: Frederic Bouvier wrote: Quoting Vassilii Khachaturov : It looks like a breach of individual's privacy to me. You can track people's travel ( owner names are apparent ) and I doubt it would be permitted this side of the Atlantic. in this particular case the FAA tail number registry gives a charter company flying exec jets. No client names disclosed. Not true when people are flying their own plane. Here a counter example : http://flightaware.com/resources/registration/N555CA And don't tell me a PA28 is an airliner ;-) I think there is some gray area here. When you drive your car, you post your license plate # in plain and easy view both front and back. An airplane will also have it's registration number prominently displayed for all to see, and you need to transmit your identity and location in order for ATC to track you and maintain the safety of everyone in the airspace. When you enter the airspace (or the roadways) you give up some of your privacy and freedoms and agree to play by a common set of rules ... usually for the sake of safety, or the environment, or justified for some greater common good. As far as I know, there is no mean for the public, to link a plate # to a owner's name. It is illegal here. I don't know what the correct answer is for this particular case, and being able to go back and lookup a complete history of a private pilot's travels (start, destination, times, dates, etc.) seems like it could be a little over the line. The ability of computers to collect and index and sort and preserve massive amounts of public information creates definite privacy issues. Where as before you were protected by being a needle in a haystack and an observer has to watch you fly over to get any public data on you, now anyone can specifically lookup all public data about your flights, and the sum of that public data might be infringing on your privacy rights. Interesting debate. :-) The gov't could track how well you hold your heading, altitude, and speed, and revoke the licenses of the bottom 10% every year ... there's all kinds of fun stuff you could do with this data. :-) It is normal that public agencies ( police dept, justice, Aviation authorities ... ) can make a link between tail or plate # and identities, just to enforce regulations and play their role, as long as they don't make 'Big Brother Is Watching You' their creed. My concern is that Joe Public is able to get this kind of informations. In most states in th US car registrations are public information. Where they are not, a private investigator can usually get them anyway. Josh - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys -- and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightAware flight tracking
On Tuesday 03 October 2006 22:02, Buchanan, Stuart wrote: Hi All, Some of you may have come across www.flightaware.com as a way to track IFR flights. It uses data from the FAA radar system and provides products (free and commercial) based on it. The data is quite detailed - minute-by-minute lat/long/altitude and speed along with aircraft type, flight number and call-sign. Out of curiosity I dropped them a mail saying who we were and wondering if they would donate some historical data to the project. To my pleasant surprise they said they would be able to help. How very nice. I've been asked to get back in contact in November as they are quite busy right now. So, it looks like we might have some really nice data to build some AI flights with in the not-to-distant future. I just had a quick look at the website, and saw that they provide departure and arrival times and airport codes for each tail number. This would form an excellent basis to create AI traffic using the traffic manager, which basically requires just this information. Cheers, Durk - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys -- and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightAware flight tracking
On Friday 06 October 2006 14:32, Durk Talsma wrote: I just had a quick look at the website, and saw that they provide departure and arrival times and airport codes for each tail number. This would form an excellent basis to create AI traffic using the traffic manager, which basically requires just this information. Cheers, Durk I think you could get similar data from the Airlines' own websites. Ampere - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys -- and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightAware flight tracking
Martin Spott wrote : Hi Stuart, Buchanan, Stuart wrote: Some of you may have come across www.flightaware.com as a way to track IFR flights. It uses data from the FAA radar system and provides products (free and commercial) based on it. I see one drawback here: They really only track flights in the coverage of US American Radar. Explicitly they state FlightAware is the first company to offer free flight tracking services for both private and commercial air traffic in the United States. Accidentially I came across this web site while googling for the registration of an aircraft that I spotted on the apron of Berlin Tempelhof (EDDI) last sunday (surrounded by police and a crowd of 6 or 8 black limo's). Our Cessna was No. 2 behind this flight FlightAware tracks the route of this aircraft until it leaves Canadian territory: http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N14R but I would have loved to investigate the aerodrome of departure of this flight that ended at Tempelhof ;-) It looks like a breach of individual's privacy to me. You can track people's travel ( owner names are apparent ) and I doubt it would be permitted this side of the Atlantic. -Fred -- Frédéric Bouvier http://frfoto.free.fr Photo gallery - album photo http://www.fotolia.fr/p/2278 Other photo gallery http://fgsd.sourceforge.net/ FlightGear Scenery Designer - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys -- and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightAware flight tracking
It looks like a breach of individual's privacy to me. You can track people's travel ( owner names are apparent ) and I doubt it would be permitted this side of the Atlantic. in this particular case the FAA tail number registry gives a charter company flying exec jets. No client names disclosed. V - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys -- and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightAware flight tracking
Quoting Vassilii Khachaturov : It looks like a breach of individual's privacy to me. You can track people's travel ( owner names are apparent ) and I doubt it would be permitted this side of the Atlantic. in this particular case the FAA tail number registry gives a charter company flying exec jets. No client names disclosed. Not true when people are flying their own plane. Here a counter example : http://flightaware.com/resources/registration/N555CA And don't tell me a PA28 is an airliner ;-) -Fred -- Frédéric Bouvier http://frfoto.free.fr Photo gallery - album photo http://www.fotolia.fr/p/2278/partner/2278 Other photo gallery http://fgsd.sourceforge.net/ FlightGear Scenery Designer - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys -- and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightAware flight tracking
Frederic Bouvier wrote: And don't tell me a PA28 is an airliner ;-) but hey, it is equipped with a mode S transponder, which only few light aircraft have nowadays (at least here in Germany), Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys -- and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightAware flight tracking
Frederic Bouvier wrote: Quoting Vassilii Khachaturov : It looks like a breach of individual's privacy to me. You can track people's travel ( owner names are apparent ) and I doubt it would be permitted this side of the Atlantic. in this particular case the FAA tail number registry gives a charter company flying exec jets. No client names disclosed. Not true when people are flying their own plane. Here a counter example : http://flightaware.com/resources/registration/N555CA And don't tell me a PA28 is an airliner ;-) I think there is some gray area here. When you drive your car, you post your license plate # in plain and easy view both front and back. An airplane will also have it's registration number prominently displayed for all to see, and you need to transmit your identity and location in order for ATC to track you and maintain the safety of everyone in the airspace. When you enter the airspace (or the roadways) you give up some of your privacy and freedoms and agree to play by a common set of rules ... usually for the sake of safety, or the environment, or justified for some greater common good. I don't know what the correct answer is for this particular case, and being able to go back and lookup a complete history of a private pilot's travels (start, destination, times, dates, etc.) seems like it could be a little over the line. The ability of computers to collect and index and sort and preserve massive amounts of public information creates definite privacy issues. Where as before you were protected by being a needle in a haystack and an observer has to watch you fly over to get any public data on you, now anyone can specifically lookup all public data about your flights, and the sum of that public data might be infringing on your privacy rights. Interesting debate. :-) The gov't could track how well you hold your heading, altitude, and speed, and revoke the licenses of the bottom 10% every year ... there's all kinds of fun stuff you could do with this data. :-) Curt. -- Curtis Olsonhttp://baron.flightgear.org/~curt HumanFIRST Program http://www.humanfirst.umn.edu/ FlightGear Project http://www.flightgear.org Unique text:2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys -- and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightAware flight tracking
Curtis L. Olson wrote: I think there is some gray area here. When you drive your car, you post your license plate # in plain and easy view both front and back. An airplane will also have it's registration number prominently displayed for all to see, and you need to transmit your identity and location in order for ATC to track you and maintain the safety of everyone in the airspace. If you look at the details, then it comes very clear that there's a significant distinction between 1.) posting ones license plate to the public and 2.) automated aggregation of position data which further leads to the ability to track one person's movements. Once governments are able to track these movements there emerges a huge risk that this data is being misinterpreted or misused. This is why everyone should have a severe interest in not having the protection of his very own privacy undermined by populist attempts - whose number increase alarmingly (not only in the US but also in Europe). If done right (TM), data protection should strictly forbid governmental/ intelligence access to ATC position recordings. We have this nice Toll Collect system in Germany which determines the usage of motorways by heavy trucks. This apparatus is (technically) capable of recording every vehicle passing the respective cameras (if the system really works). Fortunately the appropriate law restricts analysis of the data to well defined cases of criminal prosecution which doesn't prevent some retarded politicians from pretending that we would live in a safer world if police had general access to the data Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys -- and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightAware flight tracking
Curtis L. Olson wrote: Frederic Bouvier wrote: Quoting Vassilii Khachaturov : It looks like a breach of individual's privacy to me. You can track people's travel ( owner names are apparent ) and I doubt it would be permitted this side of the Atlantic. in this particular case the FAA tail number registry gives a charter company flying exec jets. No client names disclosed. Not true when people are flying their own plane. Here a counter example : http://flightaware.com/resources/registration/N555CA And don't tell me a PA28 is an airliner ;-) I think there is some gray area here. When you drive your car, you post your license plate # in plain and easy view both front and back. An airplane will also have it's registration number prominently displayed for all to see, and you need to transmit your identity and location in order for ATC to track you and maintain the safety of everyone in the airspace. When you enter the airspace (or the roadways) you give up some of your privacy and freedoms and agree to play by a common set of rules ... usually for the sake of safety, or the environment, or justified for some greater common good. I don't know what the correct answer is for this particular case, and being able to go back and lookup a complete history of a private pilot's travels (start, destination, times, dates, etc.) seems like it could be a little over the line. The ability of computers to collect and index and sort and preserve massive amounts of public information creates definite privacy issues. Where as before you were protected by being a needle in a haystack and an observer has to watch you fly over to get any public data on you, now anyone can specifically lookup all public data about your flights, and the sum of that public data might be infringing on your privacy rights. Interesting debate. :-) The gov't could track how well you hold your heading, altitude, and speed, and revoke the licenses of the bottom 10% every year ... there's all kinds of fun stuff you could do with this data. :-) Curt. Sounds like a good reason to fly VFR. I wonder if they have considered the safety implications of this. I know in the US you can request that ATC watch you while you are flying VFR, but I don't know if you need to give your tail number when you do. I would guess that you do. Josh - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys -- and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightAware flight tracking
Selon Curtis L. Olson: Frederic Bouvier wrote: Quoting Vassilii Khachaturov : It looks like a breach of individual's privacy to me. You can track people's travel ( owner names are apparent ) and I doubt it would be permitted this side of the Atlantic. in this particular case the FAA tail number registry gives a charter company flying exec jets. No client names disclosed. Not true when people are flying their own plane. Here a counter example : http://flightaware.com/resources/registration/N555CA And don't tell me a PA28 is an airliner ;-) I think there is some gray area here. When you drive your car, you post your license plate # in plain and easy view both front and back. An airplane will also have it's registration number prominently displayed for all to see, and you need to transmit your identity and location in order for ATC to track you and maintain the safety of everyone in the airspace. When you enter the airspace (or the roadways) you give up some of your privacy and freedoms and agree to play by a common set of rules ... usually for the sake of safety, or the environment, or justified for some greater common good. As far as I know, there is no mean for the public, to link a plate # to a owner's name. It is illegal here. I don't know what the correct answer is for this particular case, and being able to go back and lookup a complete history of a private pilot's travels (start, destination, times, dates, etc.) seems like it could be a little over the line. The ability of computers to collect and index and sort and preserve massive amounts of public information creates definite privacy issues. Where as before you were protected by being a needle in a haystack and an observer has to watch you fly over to get any public data on you, now anyone can specifically lookup all public data about your flights, and the sum of that public data might be infringing on your privacy rights. Interesting debate. :-) The gov't could track how well you hold your heading, altitude, and speed, and revoke the licenses of the bottom 10% every year ... there's all kinds of fun stuff you could do with this data. :-) It is normal that public agencies ( police dept, justice, Aviation authorities ... ) can make a link between tail or plate # and identities, just to enforce regulations and play their role, as long as they don't make 'Big Brother Is Watching You' their creed. My concern is that Joe Public is able to get this kind of informations. -Fred -- Frédéric Bouvier http://frfoto.free.fr Photo gallery - album photo http://www.fotolia.fr/p/2278/partner/2278 Other photo gallery http://fgsd.sourceforge.net/ FlightGear Scenery Designer - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys -- and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightAware flight tracking
Hi Stuart, Buchanan, Stuart wrote: Some of you may have come across www.flightaware.com as a way to track IFR flights. It uses data from the FAA radar system and provides products (free and commercial) based on it. I see one drawback here: They really only track flights in the coverage of US American Radar. Explicitly they state FlightAware is the first company to offer free flight tracking services for both private and commercial air traffic in the United States. Accidentially I came across this web site while googling for the registration of an aircraft that I spotted on the apron of Berlin Tempelhof (EDDI) last sunday (surrounded by police and a crowd of 6 or 8 black limo's). Our Cessna was No. 2 behind this flight FlightAware tracks the route of this aircraft until it leaves Canadian territory: http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N14R but I would have loved to investigate the aerodrome of departure of this flight that ended at Tempelhof ;-) Cheers, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys -- and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightAware flight tracking
--- Martin Spott wrote: Hi Stuart, Buchanan, Stuart wrote: Some of you may have come across www.flightaware.com as a way to track IFR flights. It uses data from the FAA radar system and provides products (free and commercial) based on it. I see one drawback here: They really only track flights in the coverage of US American Radar. Explicitly they state FlightAware is the first company to offer free flight tracking services for both private and commercial air traffic in the United States. Hi Martin, Yes, the data is US-specific. However, the USA is the only country I know of that publishes this sort of information. Better, they provide it for free, provided you have the hardware etc. to install in their radar facility. Personally, I think the US approach of making all government data public domain is one of their most endearing aspects. Anyway, to get back on topic. My honest expectation is that we'll get 24 hours of data for the San Francisco area. Anything further will be a nice bonus. We'll then convert the data to AI flight-plans and use it to populate the default scenery area with some busy traffic. Because it is quite detailed, the aircraft will be following STARs and approaches accurately. Of course, if they offer to give us a live feed of all their data that we can plug into the MP server I wouldn't want to discourage them :) It would be nice if we could expect to get similar data from other countries, but I don't think that is realistic. -Stuart ___ Win a BlackBerry device from O2 with Yahoo!. Enter now. http://www.yahoo.co.uk/blackberry - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys -- and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightAware flight tracking
Buchanan, Stuart wrote: Personally, I think the US approach of making all government data public domain is one of their most endearing aspects. I agree, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys -- and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
