Re: [Flightgear-devel] Flightgear-devel Digest, Vol 61, Issue 9
> > Whether you're able to tweak your system to compensate for > worries FDM > is good for you. But this does not solve the problem of the > majority of > users. And I don't work for 1 or 2 people, but for 99% of > users. You're > not the navel of the world and your skills are not those of > everyone. Your are not quite right here. You contribute with your work to a Project with the intention to have it realistic and right as possible. This is one main goal of this project. And a very lot of users who decides to choose FGFS know this. > > In the future if one of the planes / Helicopters etc. .. of > my hangar > you dislike, do not drool on the devel list or elsewhere. > Or made it > with intelligence. But I doubt it. I never insulted and attacked you like you did here on the devel-list and in the forum and per email. If we could act like a grownups as we are, the issue with the fdm had been solved already without any noise. @devel-list members: sorry for the noise I brought in here, but due to the named reasons I didn't know any better way to deal with. I'll stop here right now. -- What Every C/C++ and Fortran developer Should Know! Read this article and learn how Intel has extended the reach of its next-generation tools to help Windows* and Linux* C/C++ and Fortran developers boost performance applications - including clusters. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devmay ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Flightgear-devel Digest, Vol 61, Issue 9
>
> I think we'd have to get a little bit more precise here.
> _I_ understand
> FlightGear's goal of development for aircraft/heli FDM's to
> get "as
> close as possible" to the flight characteristics of the
> real aircraft.
> Think of someone connecting a set of real helicopter
> controls to
> FlightGear and putting a skilled pilot into the seat.
> Is this pilot
> going to experience flight performance similar to what he'd
> experience
> on the real aircraft ?
>
> At least some people apparently had been quite happy with
> the previous
> state ("Maik's") of the Alouette II FDM, thus I assume
> there might be a
> point.
>
> Not sure if this really belongs into a discussion about the
> fidelity of
> a helicopter FDM
>
> Cordialement,
> Martin.
I agree in everything Martin said.
To make it clear: My issue with the fdm wasn't the fact that an
easy-to-fly-but-false one has been developed. It is o.k. and I can understand
that a lot of people wishes something like that.
My issue was that it wasn't added as another selectable option as proposed by
Curt, Ron and me. Instead the fdm has been simply replaced, even without asking
their original author, which is in my eyes not very respectful.
As it seems that it indeed can be solved that easily as proposed, as helijah
wants to change it so we can have both fdms beside, everyone inluding me will
be happy now, and the discussion can be ended.
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Flightgear-devel Digest, Vol 61, Issue 9
> > The fact is that Heiko do not like the way I work. He does > not understand > "organization " and "compliance". He thinks that Maik > JUSTUS knows > everything about everything. For the rotation of the rotor, > I > acknowledge that I did not notice. This will be fixed soon. > For the > rest, Yasim (like others) is a simplified system (this is > mandatory). Maik is physicist, author of the yasim-helicopter-fdm-code and interested in simulation of helicopters since his youth. In the past he had worked together with real pilots in simulation of helicopters. And he wrote nearly 90% of all helicopter-fdm's in FGFS. Logically if there is any question about helicopter-fdm he is the first one to ask. > In that sense giving the actual values will never make a > correct FDM. I > saw several "Alouette 2" takeoff, I can say that I have > never seen > Alouette vibrate and crash as did the FDM Maik. it's an > helicopters > stable. I have no problem, Groucho and others as well. The AlouetteII was stable for me. Even smaller inputs doesn't affect the helicopter in motion changes, and this is how the pilots describes the real thing as well. Don't forget that the AlouetteII was the work horse for the german army and german police, so a lot of pilots in germany learnt on this helicopter, so it is quite easy to get informations. Problem behind the thing you noticed is, that the very most joysticks are rather poor compared to the real control system. On real helicopters the stick has a travel way of 30cm- quite a lot. Joysticks has much less, and our default mouse config even much more less. I have changed my mouse setting, so I have no the same travel way like the real sticks. Still a poor way, but much better then the default. -- What Every C/C++ and Fortran developer Should Know! Read this article and learn how Intel has extended the reach of its next-generation tools to help Windows* and Linux* C/C++ and Fortran developers boost performance applications - including clusters. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devmay ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Flightgear-devel Digest, Vol 61, Issue 9
Salut Emmanuel,
BARANGER Emmanuel wrote:
> The fact is that Heiko do not like the way I work. He does not understand
> "organization " and "compliance". He thinks that Maik JUSTUS knows
> everything about everything. For the rotation of the rotor, I
> acknowledge that I did not notice. This will be fixed soon. For the
> rest, Yasim (like others) is a simplified system (this is mandatory). In
> that sense giving the actual values ??will never make a correct FDM.
I think we'd have to get a little bit more precise here. _I_ understand
FlightGear's goal of development for aircraft/heli FDM's to get "as
close as possible" to the flight characteristics of the real aircraft.
Think of someone connecting a set of real helicopter controls to
FlightGear and putting a skilled pilot into the seat. Is this pilot
going to experience flight performance similar to what he'd experience
on the real aircraft ?
At least some people apparently had been quite happy with the previous
state ("Maik's") of the Alouette II FDM, thus I assume there might be a
point.
> [...] The remark makes sense but also ridiculous. Companies do not
> like people who make money with their work. YouTube is for profit. It is
> normal to prevent them from doing that. FG does not have this feature.
> It is free and open source. Just consider the authorization of
> "Moulinsart SA" for the dissemination of Carreidas 160 for example, to
> understand that it is in their interest that FG use and disseminate
> their work (... not all of course :) )
Not sure if this really belongs into a discussion about the fidelity of
a helicopter FDM
Cordialement,
Martin.
--
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Flightgear-devel Digest, Vol 61, Issue 9
> Message: 3 > Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 10:33:50 + (UTC) > From: Martin Spott > Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] GIT commit 31819df8: Alouette II - New > FDM by > To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > Message-ID: > > Heiko Schulz wrote: > >> I hate to say it, but the the new fdm is completly wrong and doesn't >> apply to the real one in any way. > In general I'd recommend first to discuss the item with the author of > the change. If the drawbacks introduced by the new FDM are really that > obvious and serious as you've stated here, I'd say you/we should take a > revert of the latter change into account. > > Cheers, > Martin - being a veritable admirer of the old Alouette II (the > real one, I mean). Thanks Martin, The fact is that Heiko do not like the way I work. He does not understand "organization " and "compliance". He thinks that Maik JUSTUS knows everything about everything. For the rotation of the rotor, I acknowledge that I did not notice. This will be fixed soon. For the rest, Yasim (like others) is a simplified system (this is mandatory). In that sense giving the actual values will never make a correct FDM. I saw several "Alouette 2" takeoff, I can say that I have never seen Alouette vibrate and crash as did the FDM Maik. it's an helicopters stable. This is what it is today. Even if this requires a little cheating. The remark makes sense but also ridiculous. Companies do not like people who make money with their work. YouTube is for profit. It is normal to prevent them from doing that. FG does not have this feature. It is free and open source. Just consider the authorization of "Moulinsart SA" for the dissemination of Carreidas 160 for example, to understand that it is in their interest that FG use and disseminate their work (... not all of course :) ) I notice that Heiko has taken over from Robin G. to attempt to discredit FG and everything that surrounds it. I do not congratulate. Regards. Emmanuel -- BARANGER Emmanuel http://helijah.free.fr -- What Every C/C++ and Fortran developer Should Know! Read this article and learn how Intel has extended the reach of its next-generation tools to help Windows* and Linux* C/C++ and Fortran developers boost performance applications - including clusters. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devmay ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
