Re: [Flightgear-devel] Rembrandt and ALS combined or switchable
Hej Thorsten! :) > From: thorsten.i.r...@jyu.fi > To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2013 07:22:42 + > Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Rembrandt and ALS combined or switchable > > > I was wondering if there is a future plan in uniting these two amazing > > attributes of FG... > > My development plan as outlined for the period between 2.10 and 3.0 > (hopefully...) > http://wiki.flightgear.org/User:Thorsten > is still valid: > > "After thinking about this for a while, I have decided that I am definitely > not going to do this on my own. Being maintainer of one major rendering > scheme and one weather system is quite enough to keep me busy, and it's not > something which is very close to my heart. However, if there is a decision > that there is going to be a team effort making this work, I will join it and > do my part." > > > I suspect the programming challenges must be more than easy, yet I > > assume we would all like to have these features together, without having > > to quit and edit config files for choosing one of them at a time. > > I'm not a frequent Rembrandt user, but my understanding is that you have to > start Rembrandt with a certain set of > commandline options, but don't have > to edit config files. Can you elaborate? Oops, I use FG with .fgfsrc, so I have the Rembrandt command on a line which I comment/uncomment. Sorries for not clarifying this. > > I was wondering, could a button between Rembrandt and Atmospheric Light > > Scattering be made in-game so that one can be turned off, thus allowing > > the other to be turned on?? > > Starting from the default rendering scheme, Rembrandt is a change in > rendering architecture, whereas Atmospheric Light Scattering is merely (?) a > change in effect and shader code. Which is to say that Atmospheric Light > Scattering has to be largely re-written to work inside the Rembrandt > architecture, and which is why one can switch in-sim from default to > Atmospheric Light Scattering (because they use the same architecture) but not > from default to Rembrandt. Maybe Fred can explain this better. > > I've been given to understand that the easiest way to implement things inside > the Rembrandt framework is to make all computations in the fragment shader - > this is now done, ubershader-lightfield.frag contains all the main operations > of lighting and fogging in five distinct and well-structured code blocks. I > assume they would be more or less run when just copy/pasted into their > counterpart locations in the Rembrandt framework. > Is this why Rembrandt overrides any Antialias options I try to set? > So the current roadblock is that someone sufficiently familiar with the > structure of Rembrandt needs to write a skeleton framework and move these > bits where they belong and implement the xml logic to switch things on and > off. Once such a skeleton exists, I could take over from there and modify and > adapt it to get all the procedural texturing and other fragment > postprocessing effects in. > > What I can't do easily is design the skeleton from scratch, because I know > only for ~ 2/3 of the lines in effect files what they're actually for (to be > able to modify an existing file is not the same as being able to come up with > one from scratch, especially if that is supposed to work in a different > architecture...), and I have no prior experience in Rembrandt, and 'would be > nice to have' is not sufficient to motivate me to spend a lot of time > learning all of this. The offer stands - if anyone does the skeleton using > what's in ubershader-lightfield.frag and gets a minimal system running in > Rembrandt, I'll do the rest. > This sounds like heavy-duty programming and it won't be easy, of course. But, again, the fruition of this merging will be immensely beneficial, as we all can imagine, I guess! > > * Thorsten > Thanks and cheers!/KlearchosSE-MUA -- Precog is a next-generation analytics platform capable of advanced analytics on semi-structured data. The platform includes APIs for building apps and a phenomenal toolset for data science. Developers can use our toolset for easy data analysis & visualization. Get a free account! http://www2.precog.com/precogplatform/slashdotnewsletter___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Rembrandt and ALS combined or switchable
> I was wondering if there is a future plan in uniting these two amazing > attributes of FG... My development plan as outlined for the period between 2.10 and 3.0 (hopefully...) http://wiki.flightgear.org/User:Thorsten is still valid: "After thinking about this for a while, I have decided that I am definitely not going to do this on my own. Being maintainer of one major rendering scheme and one weather system is quite enough to keep me busy, and it's not something which is very close to my heart. However, if there is a decision that there is going to be a team effort making this work, I will join it and do my part." > I suspect the programming challenges must be more than easy, yet I > assume we would all like to have these features together, without having > to quit and edit config files for choosing one of them at a time. I'm not a frequent Rembrandt user, but my understanding is that you have to start Rembrandt with a certain set of commandline options, but don't have to edit config files. Can you elaborate? > I was wondering, could a button between Rembrandt and Atmospheric Light > Scattering be made in-game so that one can be turned off, thus allowing > the other to be turned on?? Starting from the default rendering scheme, Rembrandt is a change in rendering architecture, whereas Atmospheric Light Scattering is merely (?) a change in effect and shader code. Which is to say that Atmospheric Light Scattering has to be largely re-written to work inside the Rembrandt architecture, and which is why one can switch in-sim from default to Atmospheric Light Scattering (because they use the same architecture) but not from default to Rembrandt. Maybe Fred can explain this better. I've been given to understand that the easiest way to implement things inside the Rembrandt framework is to make all computations in the fragment shader - this is now done, ubershader-lightfield.frag contains all the main operations of lighting and fogging in five distinct and well-structured code blocks. I assume they would be more or less run when just copy/pasted into their counterpart locations in the Rembrandt framework. So the current roadblock is that someone sufficiently familiar with the structure of Rembrandt needs to write a skeleton framework and move these bits where they belong and implement the xml logic to switch things on and off. Once such a skeleton exists, I could take over from there and modify and adapt it to get all the procedural texturing and other fragment postprocessing effects in. What I can't do easily is design the skeleton from scratch, because I know only for ~ 2/3 of the lines in effect files what they're actually for (to be able to modify an existing file is not the same as being able to come up with one from scratch, especially if that is supposed to work in a different architecture...), and I have no prior experience in Rembrandt, and 'would be nice to have' is not sufficient to motivate me to spend a lot of time learning all of this. The offer stands - if anyone does the skeleton using what's in ubershader-lightfield.frag and gets a minimal system running in Rembrandt, I'll do the rest. * Thorsten -- Precog is a next-generation analytics platform capable of advanced analytics on semi-structured data. The platform includes APIs for building apps and a phenomenal toolset for data science. Developers can use our toolset for easy data analysis & visualization. Get a free account! http://www2.precog.com/precogplatform/slashdotnewsletter ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] Rembrandt and ALS combined or switchable
Hello! I was wondering if there is a future plan in uniting these two amazing attributes of FG... I suspect the programming challenges must be more than easy, yet I assume we would all like to have these features together, without having to quit and edit config files for choosing one of them at a time. I was wondering, could a button between Rembrandt and Atmospheric Light Scattering be made in-game so that one can be turned off, thus allowing the other to be turned on?? Note: No matter how hard i tried it seems that Rembrandt cannot have Antialiasing. This regardless of whether I try it through FGs command line or through Nvidia-settings Am I doing something wrong or is it the way it should be? Thanks! Best Regards, /Kle SE-MUA -- Precog is a next-generation analytics platform capable of advanced analytics on semi-structured data. The platform includes APIs for building apps and a phenomenal toolset for data science. Developers can use our toolset for easy data analysis & visualization. Get a free account! http://www2.precog.com/precogplatform/slashdotnewsletter ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
