Re: [Flightgear-users] Will pedals help me fly better in real life?
So, is the FG pedal support/sensitivity good enough on planes like the c172p for a set of CH pedals to be a worthwhile investment? Yes, although I find the response of the pedals a bit too sensitive; also, the absense of the force feedback sucks. Still better than the keyboard. V. ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] multiplayer other aircrafts not seen ;-(
On Wed, 30 Nov 2005, Ben Tuinstra wrote: Hi all, Just enjoying fg .99 but there is one small glitch. When I start FG in multiuser mode I see myself and other planes on the server map (by pigeond). But in FG I only seen myself :-( [snip] I behind a nat adsl-router, but also that doesn seem the problem. If I startup my laptop with XP and FG 0.99, everything is well. I think the problem IS your ADSL modem. Your XP is probably asking it to open the incoming udp traffic via the UPNP or whatever it's called, and the Linux doesn't. Please read the README.multiplayer and the Wiki doc (referenced inside it) for solution. ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
[Flightgear-users] Re: kernel-source-2.6.8: [PATCH] CH Products USB yoke and pedals recognized but frozen by SET_IDLE
I have changed my pinning policy to prefer testing over stable: APT policy: (950, 'testing'), (500, 'stable'), (300, 'unstable') and ran a full apt-get dist-upgrade. Having then downgraded freeglut back to the stable's 2.2.0 version and forbidding the current testing release of the 2.4.0 one, I recompiled flightgear, and it worked on Debian testing as well, also seeing the joystick, with the 2.6.14 kernel (sorry for my previous ignorance on this bug thread about the new kernel packaging scheme that had lead me to miss the post 2.6.8 kernel packages in the Debian archive). The funny thing is that (just for fun) I have retested the older (2.6.8) kernel, even after complete power down (with the power cord removed to make sure), and now I see that the CH Products yoke and pedals DO work with my computer (/dev/input/js[01]). Perhaps some change was introduced in the user-level USB utilities (and/or hotplug) that masked (or augmented, if you prefer it this way) the default kernel behaviour. You may reassign the present bug to some other package if you know to which one :-) Hence, I didn't work any further on the issue (my plan was to hunt down if an equivalent patch was needed to a later kernel, and creating a kernel config option to mask this patch for those who are afraid of it). Fly safe (even if in the virtual reality), Vassilii ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Re: Frames/Second and Hardware survey
This is a great idea. Some wizard for new users that gives maximum eye candy on their while still maintaining non-jerky FPS would be very helpful, rather than having them manually twiddle the rendering options/resolutions/cache sizes. ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] recommendation for joystick/pedals for fgfs/Linux?
..tsk tsk, try 'aptitude dist-upgrade'. ;o) :-) what scared me is that I remembered seeing kernel-source-2.6.11 etc and suddenly they were gone! I have just upgraded one of the computers over to etch+2.6.14 this morning, noticing the linux-image-2.6.14 there myself... [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~ $ dpkg -l |grep linux-image ii linux-image-2.6-386 2.6.14-3 Linux kernel 2.6 image on 386-class machines rc linux-image-2.6.12-1-386 2.6.12-10 Linux kernel 2.6.12 image on 386-class machi ii linux-image-2.6.14-1-386 2.6.14-2 Linux kernel 2.6.14 image on 386-class machi ii linux-image-2.6.14-2-386 2.6.14-3 Linux kernel 2.6.14 image on 386-class machi Yeah, I should have asked folks on #debian or smth, to learn about the new naming/packaging scheme. V. ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] recommendation for joystick/pedals for fgfs/Linux?
The CH Products Yoke and Pedals (USB) has worked fine here for at least 2 years. Regards Sid. Thanks to Sid and all the other recommenders of the things to use with fgfs. I got a set of the above from someone at the university, and got it to work (modulo the linux kernel patch I needed to create locally --- i've just filed it in the DBTS as http://bugs.debian.org/341035; it should have also been auto-posted to the flightgear-users list as well. If you use the current Debian kernel, it might be useful for you). I'll now try to get such a set for permanent use in our graphics lab. Vassilii ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] 0.9.9 FPS drop, just reporting
The problem occurs when making steep and wide turns. Once it starts, it needs several seconds to heal, even if flying straight. The resolution changes nothing. Only the drop will be a little less severe. At first I thought a lower resolution solves the problem and the FPS drops just become short hickups. This is wrong. The hickups seem to be another problem. Did you try lowering the LOD ranges? On a similar platform on linux, esp. with various eye candy such as the 3d clouds, I must lower them to escape the jitter you describe. ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] 0.9.9 FPS drop, just reporting
On Fri, Nov 25, 2005 at 01:25:32PM +0200, Vassilii Khachaturov wrote: The problem occurs when making steep and wide turns. Once it starts, it needs several seconds to heal, even if flying straight. The resolution changes nothing. Only the drop will be a little less severe. At first I thought a lower resolution solves the problem and the FPS drops just become short hickups. This is wrong. The hickups seem to be another problem. Did you try lowering the LOD ranges? On a similar platform on linux, esp. with various eye candy such as the 3d clouds, I must lower them to escape the jitter you describe. Are you running any fancy things on the desktop? I have gkrellm running and had the same hiccups but killing gkrellm fixed it. I have no fancy things around. Just flwm and a couple of rxvt windows. V ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
[Flightgear-users] recommendation for joystick/pedals for fgfs/Linux?
Dear FG users, I'm looking for a decent set of joystick and pedals to use with FG on a Linux x86 box. For local availability reasons, I'd prefer this to be either MS or Logitech products, but using other manufacturer's produce is possible, albeit incurring several extra weeks of wait. Please recommend me systems that you know of as working. The setting is noble --- I'm trying to lure B.Sc. students into doing mini-projects around flightgear, so that successful contributions back to the flightgear project could be made. I don't have enough budget to buy several-thousand-dollars-worth systems like the ones used in the flight school PCATDs; is it at all possible to find consumer-grade pedals that, like in the real airplane, are interconnected (i.e., pressing the left makes the right one depressed and vice versa)? Also, I wonder if the force feedback feature is used by flightgear? I'm a complete joystick newbie, my last joystick was a Kempston spring-centered one-button one, connected to a Spectrum-compatible 8-bit computer :-) TIA, Vassilii ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] irc
On Sat, 19 Nov 2005, bass pumped wrote: On 11/16/05, Melchior FRANZ [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In case someone doesn't know: if irc://irc.flightgear.org/#flightgear doesn't work, we are in irc://irc.freenode.net/#flightgear (where we really belong, anyway ;-) do you think it would be a good idea to update this information on the flightgear website? It's been there for ages: * or live discussions, there is a FlightGear IRC channel available: Primary Site: Host = irc.flightgear.org, channel = #flightgear. Emergency Backup: Host = irc.freenode.net, channel = #flightgear. ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Scrolling views crashes plane
I've tried this at a friend's home with Windows XP and it happened, too; on 0.9.8 binary flightgear package. The key is to scroll through the views faster than the most recent details updates happen. doesn't work because response to the keyboard is slowed too... sorry for stating it unclear --- I meant, the key to reproduce the bug is to hit the view change when the system is working hard updating the most recent details shortly after a view change ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Scrolling views crashes plane
Hi, This sounds to me much more like a problem of your own hardware and/or software than a FlightGear problem. Why don't you try a slightly more robust operating system than that crappy Windows ME ? (XP, Linux) It may also be your videodriver (is it a recent one ?) and/or a problem of the videocard. Kees I've tried this at a friend's home with Windows XP and it happened, too; on 0.9.8 binary flightgear package. The key is to scroll through the views faster than the most recent details updates happen. ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] More than one waypoint of the same name
Not just fixes, either - airfields, too. EG73 (Fearn) for example, once worked fine - but somewhere along the line, somebody added some tiny strip in Englandshire and called it (incorrectly, AFAIK) EG73 too. I don't think this is the only example, either... Must this sort of thing be sorted out at Robin Peel's end? Robin's docs explicitly say about duplicate airfield IDs in some countries. ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] FlightGear article spotted in .au
The article says, among other thigns: Nice scenery night lighting with ground lighting concentrated in urban areas (based on real maps) and headlights visible on major highways. This allows for realistic night VFR flying with the ability to spot towns and cities and follow roads. I was unaware of highway headlights animation --- does it really exist in flightgear? I've seen it in MSFS98 once, at my MS-working friend's home... V. ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
[Flightgear-users] Re: shell completion for bash fgfs
Awesome! thanks a lot. Instead of the aircraft list manual generation, though, I'd generate one on the fly for the first time it's needed in a session, and then had it cached. V. ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Tutorial - Flight between 2 airports
Would it be worth adding it to the CVS? I'm quite happy to GFDL it, but one of the images includes a grab from a sectional. If it's a NOAA map and not some Jeppesen proprietary thing, then it is public domain. Moreover, there is some place on the net where one can download the sectionals as a TIFF --- could be some guys' own snapshot of the official distribution, or could be the FAA updated feed... Sorry, I don't recall the details. V. ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Two simple questions offered
2) Where can I find a usable list of ADF frequencies (that work) with FG? Use Atlas (atlas.sf.net), and ask it to show you the NDBs in your area, with the frequencies. V. ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Re: Tutorial - Flight between 2 airports
2) since you're doing a x-country, you could add tuning in a VOR (or 2). I'd also add a couple of words of distributing the workload over time, such as pre-tuning frequencies and getting destination weather in advance. 4) The mixture explanation is pretty good, though I don't remember a 172 having fuel flow or egt gauges. I would suggest adding an explanation of cruising at a power setting (like 65%) using the C172 manual power table to select the best power setting (RPM and mixture) for cruise. That's optional equipment, but it is on the list. I've seen planes with and without those. The Cessna checklist for leaning actually includes 2 procedures: one with and one w/o the EGT indicator. 5) You might want to talk about carb heat, since it could be an issue on non-fuel injected engines in older 172s. even in Northern California if the humidity is high enough. Correct, although AFAIK there's no carb ice yet in fgfs. I do flip it nevertheless whenever there are any conductive conditions just to keep myself doing the same procedure in the fg and in the real life. 6) might want to lean on the ground while taxiing too to prevent spark plug fouling and rough operation same as the above V. ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] autopilot trouble
And as long as I'm writing, whenever I try to run Atlas 0.3 in conjunction with flightgear Atlas simply stops responding after less than a minute running. I don't recall having problems with this earlier with previous releases of Atlas. my graphics card is not top-of-the-line, but I am able to run flightgear a decent frame rates at KSFO 1024x768, but it might still perhaps be the cause of the problem? [snip] Frank Olaf Sem-Jacobsen Dear Frank, I'm crossposting this to atlas-devel, and suggest that future atlas-related technical discussions of the problem go there. I have the same performance problem as you do. I have an NVIDIA 32Mb graphics card, and I have the same problem. What helped alleviate the problem a little bit for me was 1) generate a set of lowres tiles as suggested on the Atlas site 2) use --geometry=256x256 in Atlas for smaller window and hence less tiles loaded and less GL overhead. 3) use 800x600 resolution in flightgear 4) switch to a lightweight Window manager session (such as flwm instead of KDE) -- the last item is great for getting higher framerates anyhow -- KDE is quite a hog. Still, the fg framerate drops a bit, and the sound sometimes becomes choppy. As a result, I more often than not prefer the pigeond.net map in a browser window, and only fire up atlas occasionally for a short period of time for checking out the airports/frequencies. (If you're not running the CVS version, you're out of luck -- 0.9.8 had a lot of bugs in the multiplayer code!) I was silent because the folks on the flightgear IRC channel persuaded me that it is all normal because of the inferior graphics card. But as you say you don't have this problems with the previous atlas releases, maybe indeed there is a problem with some recent atlas changes that cause the problem? Technical details about my setup: I'm running Debian Linux 2.6.8-2-686, NVRM version: NVIDIA Linux x86 NVIDIA Kernel Module 1.0-7174 Tue Mar 22 06:44:39 PST 2005 GCC version: gcc version 3.3.5 (Debian 1:3.3.5-13) Model: GeForce2 MX/MX 400 IRQ: 169 Video BIOS: 03.11.00.07.00 Card Type: AGP name of display: :0.0 display: :0 screen: 0 direct rendering: Yes server glx vendor string: NVIDIA Corporation server glx version string: 1.3 server glx extensions: GLX_EXT_visual_info, GLX_EXT_visual_rating, GLX_SGIX_fbconfig, GLX_SGIX_pbuffer, GLX_SGI_video_sync, GLX_SGI_swap_control client glx vendor string: NVIDIA Corporation client glx version string: 1.3 Vassilii ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] autopilot trouble
I'm having trouble with the autopilot using a couple of days old CVS version on Windows XP . I am attempting to follow the recently posted tutorial for VFR flight, but I am unable to operate the autopilot correctly. enabling the autopilot with ctrl+h does not work, and when clicking the AP button and then HDG on the auto pilot control in the Cessna the plane holds the heading, but is also starts adjusting altitude or descent rate. Also, changing autopilot settings from the menu does not seem to have any effect on holding the heading. I suspect I must be doing something wrong, so if someone could point in the correct direction I would be grateful. The above message can be viewed as a squawk list entry, so, as long as you've also glued an INOP sticker on your display onto the autopilot box picture, and don't attempt to use the autopilot again until it is fixed, you're doing nothing wrong :-))) I haven't used the autopilot in the Cessna for a long time, will try tonight and see if it happens on my Linux with the last night's CVS. V. ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] autopilot trouble
I'm having trouble with the autopilot using a couple of days old CVS version on Windows XP . I am attempting to follow the recently posted tutorial for VFR flight, but I am unable to operate the autopilot correctly. enabling the autopilot with ctrl+h does not work, and when this is because in the cessna initially the auto-pilot is turned off. Try this: 1) click the AP button to switch the autopilot on 2) THEN click Ctrl-H. Now it correctly follows the heading bug, and doesn't do anything with the altitude or throttles. However, there is a bug: the autopilot settings dialog (F11 or Autopilot/Autopilot settings) then doesn't show anything as enabled (i.e., the autopilot heading control checkbox is not on). Similarly, entering the heading bug in the settings dialog doesn't affect anything but the heading bug, even if I click the radio button near the Heading bug and the checkbox Heading control, UNTIL I TURN ON THE autopilot on the radio stack, and clicking the AP button and then HDG on the auto pilot control in the Cessna the plane holds the heading, but is also starts adjusting altitude or descent rate. Also, changing autopilot settings from the menu does not seem to have any effect on holding the heading. I see that it tries to hold the present altitude after that, even that nothing about altitude control is checked on the AP settings dialog. Trying to engage altitude hold and disengage it doesn't remedy the situation. The only way out is use the AP power button. I suspect I must be doing something wrong, so if someone could point in the correct direction I would be grateful. So far, use the workaround I mentioned in the beginning; definitely, there's a bug here to be fixed. Vassilii ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
contacting tower, Was: [Flightgear-users] autopilot trouble
Another point is that I am not always able to contact the tower when pressing the ' key, even though I am on the correct radiofrequency. I have this when I have it on the second com radio. Just like in the real life, you can listen on both radios you have, but you must transmit using only one of them. By default fg xmits on the COM1 frequency, and I never bothered checking if this is switchable at all. I agree that the error message you're not tuned to any tower freq is a bit misleading when you keep receiving tower messages at the same time :-) V. ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: contacting tower, Was: [Flightgear-users] autopilot trouble
Thanks for your answers Vassilii, but my communication problem exists even with only com 1 tuned to the tower. I receive no error messages, and no dialog box appears. I see. I meant the sceario where it pops up the dialog You are not currently tuned into any ATC service. You have smth different then I suspect that this problem is more related to the fact that flightgear often ignores my key presses. For example when using v/V to switch between views, the shift+v key press is sometimes not recognised. This is also the case for many other such keys, they may work one or 2 times, but thereafter they are ignored. [snip] I can only say that this has never happened to me yet. Furthermore, with v/V/ctrl-V I am doing that all the time. It is difficult to debug this any further since the failures are somewhat erratic. :-( I apologise for some of the weird sentences in my previous message. I am using Dragon NaturallySpeaking to dictate, and it sometimes misunderstands me. I have corrected the recognition errors I overlooked in the previous mail in this one. No need to apologise, but this gave me a sudden idea --- could it be that you have some kind of special driver for the keyboard driven by the voice that interferes with the flightgear mappings? If yes, could you try to disable it and see if the problem persists? I have no other ideas at the moment, sorry :( V. ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Tutorial - Flight between 2 airports
On the missed approach - apply full power and when you have a positive rate of climb (to avoid loss of height), retract flaps. Also, please rename it from the missed approach to go-around --- missed approach is an IFR term. BTW, go-around is what you'll get on the ' menu as well. V. ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
[Flightgear-users] Places to fly: LLBS to OJAI
http://www.flightgear.org/places.html says: If you know if any other interesting places or routes to fly, please let me know and I can add them to this list. Here's a candidate: Israel to Jordan over the Dead Sea (There are no borders in the virtual reality!) Tile: ftp://ftp.flightgear.org/pub/fgfs/Scenery-0.9.8/e030n30.tgz Apt. IDs: LLBS to OJAI, 70nm Dead Sea is the lowest water elevation on the Earth. Take off from the Beer-Sheva airport and head East-North-East. About half way there, after the southern Hebron mountains ridge, there'll be a sharp drop-off down to the Dead Sea --- the lowest exposed point on the Earth. It's really fun to descend and explore the beautiful coastline. In the real life, you wouldn't like to fly low over this water there of your own will --- while you don't need a life vest in the Dead Sea, the water is pretty caustic there for one's eyes. Once you're done marvelling the sights, continue on to the Queen Alia airport. Vassilii ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Tutorial
Looks good! The only thing I would change is to tell the user how to takeoff using the rudder. In other words teach them how to taxi first and then then will know how to track the runway centerline when it comes to takeoffs. [snip] Inside the chapter about turning in the air I added a direct link towards the chapter about turn control on the ground. This is a first step in your direction. somewhere near the end of the ground steering, as you explain about the differential braking, it is probably worth noting to mention aircraft where this is the only ground steering at low speed (such as the hunter) ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
[Flightgear-users] Aircraft downloads displayed vs filename versions
When one goes to http://www.flightgear.org/Downloads/aircraft/ there are a lot of aircraft that have Version: v20050326 displayed, yet the download links have another file name in them, such as ftp://ftp.flightgear.org/pub/fgfs/Aircraft/ch47_20050118.tgz I wonder if this is a bug or a feature? BTW, where does one get CH47 model seen as featured on the OV-10 page? (See the link off the flightgear.org announcements page, news from Sep 19, or directly at http://www.flightgear.org/Projects/obam/) Is it in the CVS tree? The link off the http://www.flightgear.org/cvs.html page is broken, and I didn't have time for a full checkout. V. ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Enabling AI traffic into patterns/loop
instructions are issued without waiting for the channel to clear. The AI is currently somewhat unmanageble at level 3 - try knocking it down to 2 for a reasonable amout of traffic, or 1 for fairly sparse traffic. I can confirm that on busier days at uncontrolled fields I've flown out of, the traffic was even more than fgfs AI level 3. Add to that the need to adjust speed constantly because sometimes there are slower and faster planes together up there, and also sometimes you have the turboprop folks in the same pattern flying 500ft over the piston guys' and a bit farther from the runway! and also you have the helicopters making opposite traffic (like, you're doing left traffic and they do right traffic --- but that's an easier one for a fixed wing pilot because the helis have to avoid you :-) ) the fgfs AI pattern is pretty much a nothing compared to that. Also, the fgfs AI planes are much more predictable --- they never change their mind, never get distracted, never miss a pattern call etc. :-))) ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
