Re: [Flightgear-users] Re: Flying Helicopters ?
Just try it with Wine. I suppose it might work. I have bought it about two years ago in no-name shop for five bucks I believe. I have never managed to get anything with Wine, but the 'notepad' ! :-/ I think I will think big, and try to set up WMware. Vince ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Re: Flying Helicopters ?
VMWare's graphics driver won't be able to use accelerated graphics. You can try, but I doubt you'll get more than a couple of frames a second. Ah, bad news then ! :o( It would be a shame to spend money on VMWare just for that. I don't have single penny to spend on WMWare. I donwloaed the demo version from their site, and just happen to have a friend who could give me serial number to unlock it. OTOH if you have VMWare already it'd be a good thing to try and let us know how it works. I would have to install and configure it...this is my real problem : I do'nt have any skills for doing so ! And I don't have the patience spend days on the net to learn about it. I am just a norma user, not a Linux guru... I can suggest trying dual-boot instead. Installing Windows on VMWare will take just as much hard drive space on the VMWare virtual disk as it would on a dual-boot disk. The big disadvantage is that the dual-boot system won't have access to your linux filesystem when in Windows so you won't be able to share scenery. Yep, I keep a small partition with Windows XP. I have never actually started it though, I keep it there 'just in case'. But I don't want to boot windows just to start games (or anything really). I want to play within Linux, as I spend all my time on it, but only play games a few hours per year, occasionnaly, 10 minutes here, 10 minutes there... If you need help with managing partitions, I can offer some advice as I've successfully done partition resizing before. My biggest piece of advice, right off the bat, is BACK UP YOUR DATA before you try anything of the sort. Hmmm, I don't have any way of backing my data, sadly. I have been thinking about it in the past months, I must find a solution, as I often scare myself. I am not too scared by software failures, as Linux is apparently very safe in this department, but I can't help picture my hard drive crashing. I hear that even modenr drives still crash, and I would devastated if that happened to me ! I am only 27 but I have nonetheless 10 years worth of data on my drive, I just can't afford to lose it all... :-/ If WMWare can't handly H/W accelerated graphics, I think I will try Cedega, it meant to run Windows 3D games. It's not free, but it's cheap I hear. I think the ideal solution would be to have a second machine, fitted with DOS and Windows, just to run games, which would share the keyboard/mouse/monitir of the Linux machine. This way I can stay on Linux, and switch at will to the Windows machine to play games. I could also use that second machine to backup my data, killing two birds with one stones so to speak... Vince ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Re: Flying Helicopters ?
You can see the game here (there is download): Dan http://gr.bolt.com/download/pc/sim/search_and_rescue2.htm Ah, thanks ! The graphics do look much better :o) But it's for windows !! :o( SearcAndRescue was Linux, so I stupidely assumeed that SAR2 was for Linux too ! Can't use it then :o((( That's just yet another old Dos/Windows game that I can't play. I guess I will have to get my hands dirty, and finally try and get some windows emulator to run on my machine... Vince ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
RE: [Flightgear-users] Re: Flying Helicopters ?
You also might want to play with Vertisim. It a simulation of a toy from the 1970s. If you owned one, or wanted one, you'll want this: http://www.peterhirschberg.com/vertisim/ That looks one cool game !! ;o) I am too yound (1977) to remember that game, but it looks funny, will put it on my windows games to run on Linux list. Vince ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Re: Flying Helicopters ?
I have been playing SearchRescue 2 civilian coast-guard helicopter simulator Daniel Oh, I love that game. If only they could improve the graphics ! :o( And it needs a strange 'YIFF' server thing to play sounds, never worked despite many efforts. :o( But despite no sound and hugely blocky graphics, I really enjoy the game. But there are only a few mission avaible, and no campaign, so I am getting bored doing the same flights over and over again. I subscribed to teh mailing list there, but several months later, I stll have not see a SINGLE message coming in ! Looks like development has stopped then, too bad, as I don't know of a replacement/more modern game to replace it with :o( I am glad to ehar of someone else that plays the game, it really felt like I was the only one on the earth... :-/ Vince ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Re: Flying Helicopters ?
FlightGear uses the most realistic flightmodel it can and as such the helicopter has to be finely controlled in 3-axes at all times to remain in the hover / slow flight (As in real-life) Dave Martin About the FDM for the Heli, I would not mind having the opinion of a real Heli pilot (hopefully there is one on this list ?). The only reference point I have, is a few weeks flying the Bell 206 in Microsoft flight simulator, and that was 5 years ago, but in Fligh Gear, I feel that two things are wrong. 1) If I climb to say 2,000 feet then set collective pitch to 0%, and maintain a constant and very high speed of say 120 or 140 knots, it nonetheless takes litterally several minutes before I reach the ground, almost feeling like I didn't zeroed the collective pitch at all. Feels really weird. 2) If I climb to say 2,000 feet again, then turn the engine off, I instantly lose control big time, going all over the place, instead of entering auto-rotation (sorry for the French word, don't know how it's called in English) and let me land smoothly. The bo105 looks about the same size/kind of heli as the Bell 206, so I was expecting the heli in FG to behave in the same way as the Bell 206 in MS Flight Simulator. There is a Bell 206 in X-plane, but I have yet to find out how to control the heli in X-plane... all I found was F5/F6 for collective pitch, but no idea what the keys are for cyclic and tail rotor.. :o( Vince ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Re: Flying Helicopters ?
I have been playing SearchRescue 2 Daniel Oh, I think I was mistaken here. I was talking about SearchAndRescue (http://wolfpack.twu.net/SearchAndRescue/about/index.html) But on the page (see link) they talk about another game of the same name (SR 2) that has nothing to do with SearchAndRescue, but the link tehy give in the page, is borken apparently :o( Could you send me a valid link for SR 2 then ? I am curious. Maybe the graphics are better, or maybe the sound works (doesn't use YIFF ie...), or maybe there are more missions. I am very curious then. Thanks in advance, Vince ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Re: Flying Helicopters ?
I feel that two things are wrong. 1) If I 2) If I If I may add a third point to my own post, there is another little thing about the Heli FDM that I don't quite understand. When I start the game, sitting on the runway, I set the collective to zero, then start the engine. The Heli then start moving around, slowly turning coutner clockwise on the runway. How comes ? With the collective set to zero, I was expecting the Heli to be completely immobile, firmly laid on the ground. :o( Vince ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
RE: [Flightgear-users] Re: Flying Helicopters ?
I'm not a trainer helicopter pilot, but an Aero engineer that has done several helicopter simulators. Maybe I can shed a little light on the subject. A, your more than welcome indeed ! :o) This doesn't sound right. Are you sure the collective is set to 0%, and not just bottomed out on control? Ah well, I don't know.. :-/ Since there is no torque guage, I don't have clue what's really going on. All there is, is a vertical cursor on the far left of the HUD display, which doens't have any marks on it. I just assumed that it ranged from 0 to 100%, but maybe it's more like 50-100%, so there is always some lift being produced...no way to tell :o( With zero colelctive, you should assume the flight profile of a homesick brick... Oh, sorry. In clearer terms, yes, you should fall out of the sky. So, means that either the FDM is faulty, or that the Pg Up/Dn keys can't zero the collective. In either case, it's not fixable and I can only wait and pray that it's fixed soon in a future version of the program ! :o( You don't 'enter auto-rotation' just because you lose power. Autorotation is more a maneuver than a state Oops, sorry if my wording was incorrect. It's just that frogs don't really speak english very well you know ;o) :-/ But it was great reading your description of autorotation, it was exactly my understanding of the thing. Sadly I can't practice it right now, as I am using the keyboard, and it really takes a joystick to do fast yet accurate/fine adjustments to the controls, needed to land safely when in autoration Computer parts being cheaper and cheaper these days, hopefully I can afford a good joystick and pedals soon, and really enjoy heli flying :o) I heard it described once as An autorotation is something to keep the pilot busy while he is crashing. :o) I will write this one down :-) I hope this helps, and yes, I look forward to someday in the future being able to contribute to the JSBSim helicopter modeling efforts, to make that FDM more complete. I have other stuff on the plate right now, though Yes, please help if (when...) you can. Looks like for now, X-plane is much more suited to helis than Flightgear is. Hopefully this will change soon, say in the next year or two ? I guess it all depends how popular Helis are among flightGear developpers community ? For now, sadly, Helis look more like an afterthought... :o( Vince ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Re: Flying Helicopters ?
Le vendredi 21 janvier 2005 17:01 +, Dave Martin a crit : On Friday 21 Jan 2005 16:37, Bill Galbraith wrote: Vince wrote: With zero colelctive, you should assume the flight profile of a homesick brick... Oh, sorry. In clearer terms, yes, you should fall out of the sky. So, means that either the FDM is faulty, or that the Pg Up/Dn keys can't zero the collective. In either case, it's not fixable and I can only wait and pray that it's fixed soon in a future version of the program ! :o( That's not the right attitude. You are intersted, so dig in, investigate, try some code changes, ask questions, become part of the ommunity. What a great way to learn new things, huh? Bill Well said. Vince: You can find the FDM (Flight Dynamics Model) for the bo105 in $FGROOT/data/Aircraft/bo105/bo105.xml You can find some pointers on configuring the (YASim) FDM in $FGROOT/data/Docs/README.yasim Dave Martin Bill, Dave, don't shoot me !! ;-/ I hardly meant to show disrespect of some kind to the FG team, when I said that heli looked like an afterthought. Not at all. It's just that I happen to be interested in helis more than planes, and planes are clearly sorted zillions times better than helis. I was just pointing this out, not making any kind of judgment. I would be delighted if I could dig out a magic stick to improve the situation, but I can't do that ! :o( I have no IT skills whatsoever. It they guys behins the FDM didn't do it, who am I on earth to pretend I can do any better ? I don't even know what's an XML file. The cold fact is that I am completely unable to help in anyway other than testing models by flying them, giving my opinion on whatever aspect of the game/FDM, and give tons of moral support and encouragement. And also, obviously, I have many other things I enjoy, which already eat all my time. Learning day by day how to live with my Linux Penguin being one of the most time consuming one... Being an electronic enginner, I can probably fix my radio receiver or what have you, but if Flight Gear doesn't do what I need it to do...what can I do ? If my teh engine of my car explodes, what can I do ? I must pay for the garage to fix it. I can't even afford to spend years learning how to fix it, because I need the car to be back on the road ASAP. Sure I would love to help, but I am realistic... there are millions of FG users that are much more competent/able to help than me ! :-/ I hope you will allow me the right to be just a normal user ? ;o) Peace and love Vince ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Re: Flying Helicopters ?
AFAIK the bo105 doesn't yet have a modelled clutch so when you cut the power, the engine stays connected to the rotor and causes it to slow. Oops, maybe I overreacted when I said I lost control completely. I just tried again switching the engine off at X,000 feets, and I don't exactly lose control. What it does is nose down a LOT, and I am left with no cyclic control somehow, so can't slow down the fall. Sounds like what Bill said, I lost hydraulic pressure when turning the engine off, hence lost the ability to actuate the blades... result is the same though... I can't practice autorotation :o( The bo105 is actually quite different to a Bell 206; things such as non-flapping blades on the bo105 give it very different flight characteristics. Ah well, you certainlky know a lot more than me (which isn't difficult as I know so little ! ;o). All I meant is that I expected the bo105 to react more like a Bell 206 than, say, a Super Puma or Chinook. But again, I don't know much so I am happy to be corrected... Vince ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
[Flightgear-users] Flying Helicopters ?
Hi people, First post here. I am using FGFS 0.9.4 and love helicopters. But I don't have a Joystick. Could someone tell me what are the Keys used to control a Heli ? I searched the help system. The best I could find was a 3 page PDF file, but it seems to apply to every kind of aircrafts...but helicopters. The space bar doesn't seem to start the rotor. I pressed the increase magneto key, and that started the rotor and apparently set the collective pitch to 100%, causing a rather violent and sudden take-off... But what are the keys to vary collective pitch ? I tried the Pg Up/Down keys (throttle for planes), but that doesn't do it :o( So, I can about manage to take off without crashing, but since the collective is stuck to 100%, I can control forward speed nor altitude, so basically I can't land the thing ! :-O :o( Regards, Vince ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Re: Flying Helicopters ?
I am using FGFS 0.9.4 Very old. Please consider to upgrade to 0.9.8. Yes, would love to ! But my distro (Ubuntu) was released in October last year, and came with 0.9.4. The next realease is in Apri sometime, so might come with 1.0.0 ?? Sadly I really don't have the skills to compile 0.9.8 by hand by myself, so I must wait for Ubuntu to be released again in April... :o( and love helicopters. But I don't have a Joystick. That's tough. Whatever you do, it won't be much fun. A joystick and pedals (or at least a js with twist axis instead) is almost mandatory for helicopter flying. And joysticks are cheap enough to keep it that way. Yes, not really practical indeed, but I love it so much that even with the keyboard, I really enjoy it ! I am really skint so can't afford a Joystick, so will have to wait a few month, later this year. But when I get one, I sure will get a the best I can find (hopefully it will work with FG...), and I will certainly reach new levels of fun :o))) But in the meantime, I have to do with the K/B...better than nothing... :-/ Vince ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Re: Flying Helicopters ?
The collective controls are reversed in comparison with a fixed wing throttle: pull to raise, push to sink. That's also true for the PgUp PgDn keys. You need to push the collective down (repeated PgUp) before you start the turbines. Oh !!! Thank you, that works a treat, I managed to take off pretty smoothly, and landed the thing fairly smoothly as well !! :o) Now what would be good, is to have an instrument that displays torque, because the instrument panel doesn't have one as far as I can see, so it's impossible to gauge just where I am when I vary the collective pitch with Pg Up/Dn. Probably less of a problem if you have a joystick, since you can visually see where the know is, but since I am using the Keyboard (at least for now) Vince ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Re: Flying Helicopters ?
WOW ! That's very complicated ! Should I just copy/paste all that in text file and run the script ? But that will probably by-pass my package managment system (apt/synaptic) ? :-/ I will ask the guys on my distro's mailing list, maybe one of them has compiled it and has a .deb ready for me... I will keep you script/e-mail in a safe place... Vince Le jeudi 20 janvier 2005 19:01 +0100, Arnt Karlsen a crit : On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 17:52:43 +0100, Vincent wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I am using FGFS 0.9.4 Very old. Please consider to upgrade to 0.9.8. Yes, would love to ! But my distro (Ubuntu) was released in October last year, and came with 0.9.4. The next realease is in Apri sometime, so might come with 1.0.0 ?? Sadly I really don't have the skills to compile 0.9.8 by hand by myself, so I must wait for Ubuntu to be released again in April... :o( ..learn. ;o) : [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~ # cat /mnt/sda2/local/src/rebuild-FlightGear-from-cvs #!/bin/bash ### ### # Copyright (c) 2004 Arnt Karlsen # /usr/local/src/rebuild-FlightGear-from-cvs ### ### cd /usr/local/src/Plib/ cvs -d:pserver:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/cvsroot/plib login touch Plib-rebuilt-from-cvs-`date -u +%F+%H.%M.%S.%Z` cvs -z3 -d:pserver:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/cvsroot/plib co plib cd Plib/plib/ # cvs update -d -P make clean # sh autogen.sh ./configure --prefix=/usr/local --exec-prefix=/usr/local make make install ### ### cd /usr/local/src/Open-AL/ cvs -d:pserver:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/usr/local/cvs-repository login touch Open-AL-rebuilt-from-cvs-`date -u +%F+%H.%M.%S.%Z` cvs -d:pserver:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/usr/local/cvs-repository co openal cd openal/ # cvs update -d -P make clean sh ./autogen.sh # ./configure --help |less ./configure --enable-optimization --prefix=/usr/local make make install # cd /usr/local/src ### ### cd /usr/local/src/GLut/ cvs -d:pserver:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/cvsroot/freeglut login touch freeglut-rebuilt-from-cvs-`date -u +%F+%H.%M.%S.%Z` cvs -z3 -d:pserver:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/cvsroot/freeglut co freeglut cd freeglut/freeglut/ # cvs update -d -P make clean sh autogen.sh # ./configure --help |less ./configure --with-x --enable-optimization --prefix=/usr/local \ --with-plib=/usr/local --with-threads make make install ### ### cd /usr/local/src/SimGear-0.3/ cvs -d :pserver:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/var/cvs/SimGear-0.3 login touch SimGear-rebuilt-from-cvs-`date -u +%F+%H.%M.%S.%Z` cvs -d :pserver:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/var/cvs/SimGear-0.3 co source cd source/ # cvs update -d -P # ./configure --prefix=/usr/local --exec-prefix=/usr/local make clean sh autogen.sh # ./configure --help |less ./configure --enable-optimization --prefix=/usr/local --with-jpeg-factory \ --with-plib=/usr/local --with-threads make make install ### ### cd /usr/local/src/FlightGear-0.9/ cvs -d :pserver:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9 login touch FlightGear-rebuilt-from-cvs-`date -u +%F+%H.%M.%S.%Z` cvs -d :pserver:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9 co source cvs -d :pserver:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9 co data # cd source ;cvs update -d -P ;cd ../data/ ;cvs update -d -P ;cd - cd /usr/local/src/FlightGear-0.9/source/ make clean sh autogen.sh ./configure --with-x --enable-optimization --prefix=/usr/local \ --with-jpeg-factory --with-plib=/usr/local --with-simgear=/usr/local \ --enable-sp-fdms --with-multiplayer --with-threads make make install ### ### cd /usr/local/src/Atlas/ cvs -d:pserver:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/cvsroot/atlas login touch Atlas-rebuilt-from-cvs-`date -u +%F+%H.%M.%S.%Z` cvs -z3 -d:pserver:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/cvsroot/atlas co Atlas cd Atlas/ sh autogen.sh # ./configure --help |less ./configure --with-x --with-plib=/usr/local make make install # terrasync --help # # fgfs --show-aircraft --fg-root=/mnt/sda2/local/src/FlightGear-0.9/data # fgfs --show-aircraft --fg-root=/mnt/sda2/local/src/FlightGear-0.9/data # |less # ### ### # # cd /usr/local/src/ClusterConf/ # cvs -d :pserver:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/cvs login # cvs -d :pserver:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/cvs checkout clusterconf # ..if you fix or improve anything, let me know. ;o) ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org
Re: [Flightgear-users] Re: Flying Helicopters ?
It's not the same as a panel instrument, but the HUD has an indicator for how much throttle (or in the heli's case, collective) is applied. Just press 'h' to turn on the HUD. Oh, HUD is magic !!! :o) Yes, the vertical slider on the far left, indicates the collective setting !! :o) Wow, it's now quite fun to fly that heli, even if it looks ugly, and even without joystick ! With a joystick, it will be just fantastic, and once we have a few good looking heli models, it will be mind blowing ! :o)) FG is really marvelous ! :o) THe weather effect are superb, clouds, lighting effect etc. So now, all they need to do is sort out the terrain. The ground looks horrible, flat, and all the moutains are very angular, not very natural at all. That said, X-plane is just as bad in this respect, so there must be some serious technical problem that needs to be overcome here... :-/ But hopefully, nothing that the Linux community, and time, can't sort out ! :o) Let's just be patient, and enjoy things as they are for now... :o))) Vince ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Re: Flying Helicopters ?
Don't forget that FG is a cross platform community; there are both developers and users running Linux, BSD, Windows, OSX, IRIX, Solaris etc. Oh yes, that means more people likely to help overcome problems...faster improvement of the product... :o) I'll be making some tutorials 'soon' to demonstrate how to make controls like a full-size cyclic, yoke, collective and pedals from cheap off-the-shelf joysticks and parts. Oh yes, that would be great ! :o) For Helis, a good joystisk is enough for the cyclic control, as modern helis use that anyway. However, it would be great to have a proper handle to control collective pitch, that would make it easier to fly. also, I tried some pedals once (that came with a steering wheel, was for a car game), and they although it's great for a heli to control the tail rotor, the quality was very low. They were way too light weigh, too small/cramped, and too soft. Would be great to have heavy duty pedals for my big 15 sized feet !! :o) Vince ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
