[Flightgear-users] Re: Helicopters in Flight Gear
* Georg Vollnhals -- Friday 11 November 2005 22:43: I did no further research but if the value of minimal throttle differs from time to time it may change the torque values??? Yes, it will. I did it with the CVS of yesterday, you changed something in the calculation (1 line), I'll build the new CVS right away, just curious whether it changed something noticable when flying. Don't bother. That was just a change like x*n + x*m - x*(n+m). It won't change the result. The dialog (Tab) positioning was changed, too. m. ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Re: Helicopters in Flight Gear
Andy Ross schrieb: Except for all the questions I asked, you mean. :) Questions? But I was prepared for that :-) No, a little feedback is sometimes important that you know you have done all what is requiered - Got the stuff, will work on it sometimes when I have got some time left would have done it. Then I lean back and wait ;-) Yeah, this is still in my queue. But unfortunately it won't help the helicopter model at all -- the helicopter code doesn't currently work with the existing engine framework in YASim. Andy Ok, that is the actual status. But it should be improved. With my very long mail I was just trying to get some feedback, collect some ideas or even better, hear that someone is already working on a new helicopter flightmodel. But it was always my way first to see if there is anyone who can do a job much better than I and if not, try do do it again despite lacking skills and experience - you are never too old to learn new things! Regards Georg ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
[Flightgear-users] Re: Helicopters in Flight Gear
* Georg Vollnhals -- Sunday 29 October 2006 01:31: 1. If *Melchior Franz* would like to create the very essential instruments like torque, N1/N2, TOT (turbine outlet temperature), fuel-pump switches (very essential for the BO105!) and (if possible) throttle levers (with starter buttons?) ... etc That's, of course, on my TODO list, along with textures, controls, animated (co)pilot, higher-poly interior. But as long as YASim's helicopter is basically just magic rotors that aren't driven by engines, further gauges are merely decorative, and thus don't have higher priority than animated crew. I'm also still waiting for usable SVG tools that are capable of rendering my already done instrument faces. (Inkscape 0.42.2 isn't.) m. ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Re: Helicopters in Flight Gear
On Sun, 29 Oct 2006 01:31:03 +0200, Georg wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: _ _ HI: I wrote this over the day whenever I had a little time. In the meantime there was really much activity on the list from people who already created some helo-stuff or have the intention to do so - I did not know that we have already more 3D helo modells then the BO105. But I don't want to write this mail again or correct it. So please all of you, you are meant too, feel free and invited to discuss what we could do and how we should do it: _ _ Hi all helo-addicts and helicopter-flight interested people! *** Excuse my very long mail *** We have now got to a point where it seems that a new helicopter-project could be started. So please excuse me for writing this very long mail, but if you compress some content it might be misunderstood: *** Won't read all that? - get a wonderful free FAA helicopter manual though!*** (For those not willing to read this all, have a look at the link at the bottom of the page, that might be of interest also for you :-) ) *** What do we need - 3D-modells or a better FM? *** So, if we are really interested in doing some work, let us speak of coding first not make 3-D modells. The reasons are 1. that we have a very nice BO105 which can be the base for further improvements 2. that all further 3D-stuff is useless without a basic helicopter flightmodell which gives us at least the most relevant basic functions. *** Why not use the existing flightmodell? What is wrong? *** I would not say it is wrong, it just covers only some aspects of blade and rotary wing aerodynamics. But let me first I thank *Maik Justus* for his work and that we are able to simulate helicopter flight in FlightGear. It was a first step and therefore very important but let me explain why I think we cannot simply refine his flightmodell to get what we wish: If I understand the right way what he tries to do is calculating the forces and effects of the rotor by calculating it for every blade in discrete time-steps and from this calculation the resulting forces on the helicopter. This is far too complex to handle after my opinion as we do not have the necessary hardware for the resulting flightmodell and the man-power for all that coding. The actual flightmodel only looks at a small part of all possible effects and the result is that we can do a pretty normal hover and some simple flight-maneuvers but many important things are simply wrong (ie. yaw and tail-rotor aspects, influence of wind when turning on the spot too heavy modelled, reducing collective/torque to minimum on straight and level flight with no adequate reaction/helo flying like a fixed wing) or lacking (no ground-effect, no realistic translational lift, no vortex state ((settling with power)), no airflow driven rotorblades/no autorotation possible, etc). This is only what I am just thinking of, there are many other arguments. *** Rotorblade aerodynamic is really complicated *** But we can understand this when we just have a look what we had to modell/calculate only for the blades: IF YOU KNOW that the blades are not only moving against the moving air (if not in a hover)which results in an asymmetric lift but can flap/drag (up/down, forw./back) and/or bend/twist (what results in different blade-angles (AoA) against the airflow over the whole blade) *AND* that you don't have a laminar airflow over the whole blade *AND* that the blades not only are driven by the engine but also by the airflow through the blades (ie if you have low collective pitch and a ..define through the blades. ;o) http://home.att.net/~dannysoar2/Whirlygig.htm fast descend the airflow can! increase rotor-rpm) *AND* there are flight-envelopes where you have increasing vortex with blade-stall in the center of the bladepart (vortex state, settling with power) *AND* you have the situation where a*part* of the blade is stalling (center) and a *part* of the rotor-blade is driven by the airflow (middle) and the *other part* of the rotorblade is giving lift (outside) and that these zones differ from the position of the blades (movement against air or retreating blade) *AND* you may have blade-stall of the retreating blade if relative airflow is to low (forward-speed or heavy gust) *AND* ... much more :-) THEN YOU WILL EASILY SEE that it is very difficult to calculate the resulting forces an the rotorhead (and the appending helicopter, of course). For the EC135 flightsim they have one medium workstation only to calculate the blade aerodynamics - and this from predefined tabels!!! :-) *** We won't speak of rotorblade aerodynamic alone when it comes to helicopter aerodynamics ***
Re: [Flightgear-users] Re: Helicopters in Flight Gear
On 10/29/05, Dan Lyke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Melchior FRANZ writes: There is no ground effect currently in place at all.I've been looking at the math to model downwash, and I think there maybe some relatively easy kludges to slap into place to both handle ground effect, and maybe even VRS. Oh for unlimited time to work onthis stuff, I've got some good ideas to do blade lift modeling, butthe last thing I want to do after a day of programming is programmore. I can't make any promises as to time, but I'll take gradual stepstowards getting a copy of the code on my machine and diddling with it.Is there a real helicopter pilot on the list who'd be interested in taking my changes and saying yes, this is realistic or not onanything I've ever flown? I can help u with that, i fly a ec-120 for cpl(h) certification.. now i have ~ 50 hours... i think i can give you a clue. I also dreamed about improving the helicopter code for FG, but my programming skills are limitated, so i'm looking forward to your work. I will take a look at documentation and see if i will be able to develop a model of ec-120 to use your code. X-plane, have so far the most realistic helicopter model, i was tring to develop the ec-120 for x-plane, but does not offer suport for FENESTRON and i gived up, as far as i remember neither FG has FENESTRON support. any way... i'll give it a try. IS ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
[Flightgear-users] Re: Helicopters in Flight Gear
* Dan Lyke -- Saturday 29 October 2005 03:17: I've been looking at the math to model downwash, and I think there may be some relatively easy kludges to slap into place to both handle ground effect, Yes, it shouldn have become a lot easier, as we can now do very fast ground intersection tests. Just make the groundcache big enough that it contains the rotor disk shape. Is there a real helicopter pilot on the list who'd be interested in taking my changes and saying yes, this is realistic or not on anything I've ever flown? I have mail addresses in the archive from real helicopter pilots, even from a Bo105 pilot. Maybe one of them is still valid. And there are other people here who know helicopter pilots. On another front: I spent a little time today with the Bell/Textron drawings and Blender, The Bo105 was also my first (bigger) model. (I had just done a radio tower and a hanger before that.) I can probably give you one or the other tip. Have even written a FlightGear plugin for Blender to help with animation and such. (http://members.aon.at/mfranz/flightgear/) I've never done modeling before, and I may be being too conservative on polygons. The Bo105 is a (comparatively) low-poly model (despite the Minigun barrels :-). But not all models have to be low-poly. Graphics cards become faster and faster, and as long as there are low-poly aircraft available for low-budget cards, there's nothing wrong with detailed models. Au contraire. And I was so happy to get a basic fuselage together that I was getting really optimistic, now I'm down to the nitty gritty of two-sided doors. As Josh said, make at least a flipped copy for the inside. And aaargh I wish Blender would just let me say match the normal for the vertex on this object to the one for the vertex on that one... Just write a Blender plugin. :-) You do texture by poly color, and so far I'm just doing a white fuselage. Should I bother to put UV coordinates on things, or is trying to texture these aircraft just too heavyweight for now? The only reason why the Bo105 is still barely textured (only strobes/ beacons, rotor discs, emblem/insignia) is quite simple: as long as the fuselage wasn't finished, texturing wasn't recommendabel. And then: Blender had quite weak tools for UV mapping back when I had the fuselage ready. I wrote the material animation instead, so I could at least change colors. (c/C keys in the Bo105.) Texturing is still on the TODO list, of course. Can I just make the doors double-sided for now, or should I model both an interior and exteror? They certainly don't need depth for now. A flipped copy will do. Is it reasonable to end up with two blades by just willy nilly deleting from your blade model, or is there a hidden gotcha intere? Other than that they are Bo105 blades? No. :-) Aaaand, talk to me about shadows... We had no 'real' (= volumetric) shadows when I did them. So there are two shadow planes. Nowadays you don't have to care for shadows at all. Just let the animation disable shadows for objects that shouldn't cast shadows (rotor disc, light halos, glass). m. ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
[Flightgear-users] Re: Helicopters in Flight Gear
Hi, I am working on an Eurocopter EC 145 (http://www.eurocopter.com/ec145) for FlightGear. But it takes more time than I had expected. So maybe at the end of this year, maybe January next year I have something to show/share. In the moment I try to get more detailed information about this specific helicopter. Greetings Matthias ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Re: Helicopters in Flight Gear
Le samedi 29 octobre 2005 à 12:41 +0200, Matthias Boerner a écrit : Hi, I am working on an Eurocopter EC 145 (http://www.eurocopter.com/ec145) for FlightGear. But it takes more time than I had expected. So maybe at the end of this year, maybe January next year I have something to show/share. In the moment I try to get more detailed information about this specific helicopter. Greetings Matthias Just to inform, I developed partly a Puma AS330. I did stop the development because unable to get a realistic FDM, Yasim working partly with unreal parameters. -- Gerard ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Re: Helicopters in Flight Gear
Le samedi 29 octobre 2005 à 14:43 +0200, Gerard ROBIN a écrit : Le samedi 29 octobre 2005 à 12:41 +0200, Matthias Boerner a écrit : Hi, I am working on an Eurocopter EC 145 (http://www.eurocopter.com/ec145) for FlightGear. But it takes more time than I had expected. So maybe at the end of this year, maybe January next year I have something to show/share. In the moment I try to get more detailed information about this specific helicopter. Greetings Matthias Just to inform, I developed partly a Puma AS330. I did stop the development because unable to get a realistic FDM, Yasim working partly with unreal parameters. In addition to, one may be interested with my wrong yasim FDM (AS330 Puma) available here: http://ghours.club.fr/AS330.xml -- Gerard ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Re: Helicopters in Flight Gear
Gerard ROBIN wrote: Le samedi 29 octobre 2005 à 14:43 +0200, Gerard ROBIN a écrit : Le samedi 29 octobre 2005 à 12:41 +0200, Matthias Boerner a écrit : Hi, I am working on an Eurocopter EC 145 (http://www.eurocopter.com/ec145) for FlightGear. But it takes more time than I had expected. So maybe at the end of this year, maybe January next year I have something to show/share. In the moment I try to get more detailed information about this specific helicopter. Greetings Matthias Just to inform, I developed partly a Puma AS330. I did stop the development because unable to get a realistic FDM, Yasim working partly with unreal parameters. In addition to, one may be interested with my wrong yasim FDM (AS330 Puma) available here: http://ghours.club.fr/AS330.xml At some point I want to do a Dauphine, as I have a friend who flies them for the USCG, but right now there are at least 2 other projects that I am obliged to finish first. Hopefully I'll get to it before someone else does, I'm a big helo fan. Josh ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Re: Helicopters in Flight Gear
__ HI: I wrote this over the day whenever I had a little time. In the meantime there was really much activity on the list from people who already created some helo-stuff or have the intention to do so - I did not know that we have already more 3D helo modells then the BO105. But I don't want to write this mail again or correct it. So please all of you, you are meant too, feel free and invited to discuss what we could do and how we should do it: __ Hi all helo-addicts and helicopter-flight interested people! *** Excuse my very long mail *** We have now got to a point where it seems that a new helicopter-project could be started. So please excuse me for writing this very long mail, but if you compress some content it might be misunderstood: *** Won't read all that? - get a wonderful free FAA helicopter manual though!*** (For those not willing to read this all, have a look at the link at the bottom of the page, that might be of interest also for you :-) ) *** What do we need - 3D-modells or a better FM? *** So, if we are really interested in doing some work, let us speak of coding first not make 3-D modells. The reasons are 1. that we have a very nice BO105 which can be the base for further improvements 2. that all further 3D-stuff is useless without a basic helicopter flightmodell which gives us at least the most relevant basic functions. *** Why not use the existing flightmodell? What is wrong? *** I would not say it is wrong, it just covers only some aspects of blade and rotary wing aerodynamics. But let me first I thank *Maik Justus* for his work and that we are able to simulate helicopter flight in FlightGear. It was a first step and therefore very important but let me explain why I think we cannot simply refine his flightmodell to get what we wish: If I understand the right way what he tries to do is calculating the forces and effects of the rotor by calculating it for every blade in discrete time-steps and from this calculation the resulting forces on the helicopter. This is far too complex to handle after my opinion as we do not have the necessary hardware for the resulting flightmodell and the man-power for all that coding. The actual flightmodel only looks at a small part of all possible effects and the result is that we can do a pretty normal hover and some simple flight-maneuvers but many important things are simply wrong (ie. yaw and tail-rotor aspects, influence of wind when turning on the spot too heavy modelled, reducing collective/torque to minimum on straight and level flight with no adequate reaction/helo flying like a fixed wing) or lacking (no ground-effect, no realistic translational lift, no vortex state ((settling with power)), no airflow driven rotorblades/no autorotation possible, etc). This is only what I am just thinking of, there are many other arguments. *** Rotorblade aerodynamic is really complicated *** But we can understand this when we just have a look what we had to modell/calculate only for the blades: IF YOU KNOW that the blades are not only moving against the moving air (if not in a hover)which results in an asymmetric lift but can flap/drag (up/down, forw./back) and/or bend/twist (what results in different blade-angles (AoA) against the airflow over the whole blade) *AND* that you don't have a laminar airflow over the whole blade *AND* that the blades not only are driven by the engine but also by the airflow through the blades (ie if you have low collective pitch and a fast descend the airflow can! increase rotor-rpm) *AND* there are flight-envelopes where you have increasing vortex with blade-stall in the center of the bladepart (vortex state, settling with power) *AND* you have the situation where a*part* of the blade is stalling (center) and a *part* of the rotor-blade is driven by the airflow (middle) and the *other part* of the rotorblade is giving lift (outside) and that these zones differ from the position of the blades (movement against air or retreating blade) *AND* you may have blade-stall of the retreating blade if relative airflow is to low (forward-speed or heavy gust) *AND* ... much more :-) THEN YOU WILL EASILY SEE that it is very difficult to calculate the resulting forces an the rotorhead (and the appending helicopter, of course). For the EC135 flightsim they have one medium workstation only to calculate the blade aerodynamics - and this from predefined tabels!!! :-) *** We won't speak of rotorblade aerodynamic alone when it comes to helicopter aerodynamics *** And, mainrotor is only *one* part of many aspects. The other parts of the helo (body, tail, finns etc) are influenced as well of the rotor downwash and the airflow when moving in any direction. Not enough, it makes a big difference whether your
Re: [Flightgear-users] Re: Helicopters in Flight Gear
Georg Vollnhals writes: If I understand the right way what he tries to do is calculating the forces and effects of the rotor by calculating it for every blade in discrete time-steps and from this calculation the resulting forces on the helicopter. I haven't downloaded the code yet, my day job is currently funded out of my pocket and I'd rather do something that takes different neurons at the end of the day, but it sounds like this is the way that X-Plane does it, and on modern hardware it doesn't seem that unreasonable. It's also going to be very useful to be calculting lift-drag information for varying sections when we start to get a realistic engine model, when we start to model flapping, and when we model mast tilt and the effects of forward motion. So I'm not going to call this too complex immediately. However, next up on my technical reading list is NACA Technical Note 4357, Lift and Profile-Dra Characteristics of an NACA 0012 Airfoil section as Derived From Measured Helicopter Rotor Hovering Performance, which seems to reduce a lot of stuff down to a simple table that could be interpolated on. I think the other must-read is NASA Contractor Report 177476, aka Minimum Complexity Helicopter Simulation Math Model. Both of these are freely distributed PDFs that I eventually tracked down on the net, but they were hard to find so if you don't have them I'll see about putting them somewhere that people can get to them. As I've said before, last time I looked seriously at aerodynamics modeling was two and a half decades ago when I was 12 years old, but a lot of it, especially when dummied up from tables for a simulator, isn't that complex. What's hard is that we're trying to approximate realism, and as such are more interested in a feel. I've sat in the middle back seat of an A*Star once, with a pilot who probably had a thousand hours under his belt. No matter what I code up, even if it's a full on fluid dynamics simulation of what's going on, I'm not going to know if it's right or wrong because right or wrong isn't whether it models the physics correctly, it's whether it feels like flying a real helicopter. Dan ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
[Flightgear-users] Re: Helicopters in Flight Gear
Melchior FRANZ writes: There is no ground effect currently in place at all. I've been looking at the math to model downwash, and I think there may be some relatively easy kludges to slap into place to both handle ground effect, and maybe even VRS. Oh for unlimited time to work on this stuff, I've got some good ideas to do blade lift modeling, but the last thing I want to do after a day of programming is program more. I can't make any promises as to time, but I'll take gradual steps towards getting a copy of the code on my machine and diddling with it. Is there a real helicopter pilot on the list who'd be interested in taking my changes and saying yes, this is realistic or not on anything I've ever flown? On another front: I spent a little time today with the Bell/Textron drawings and Blender, and I'm starting to see a 206 take shape on my screen. Despite my years in graphics (several renderers, both real-time and not, and experience with writing animation systems), I've never done modeling before, and I may be being too conservative on polygons. And I was so happy to get a basic fuselage together that I was getting really optimistic, now I'm down to the nitty gritty of two-sided doors. And aaargh I wish Blender would just let me say match the normal for the vertex on this object to the one for the vertex on that one... You do texture by poly color, and so far I'm just doing a white fuselage. Should I bother to put UV coordinates on things, or is trying to texture these aircraft just too heavyweight for now? If I get a little better at modeling, maybe I'll try to include one of the stock paint schemes in the model, at the expense of polys. Can I just make the doors double-sided for now, or should I model both an interior and exteror? I guess the downside is that the interior of the doors ends up the same color as the exterior, right? Is it reasonable to end up with two blades by just willy nilly deleting from your blade model, or is there a hidden gotcha intere? Aaaand, talk to me about shadows... Thanks! Dan ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-users] Re: Helicopters in Flight Gear
Dan Lyke wrote: On another front: I spent a little time today with the Bell/Textron drawings and Blender, and I'm starting to see a 206 take shape on my screen. Despite my years in graphics (several renderers, both real-time and not, and experience with writing animation systems), I've never done modeling before, and I may be being too conservative on polygons. And I was so happy to get a basic fuselage together that I was getting really optimistic, now I'm down to the nitty gritty of two-sided doors. And aaargh I wish Blender would just let me say match the normal for the vertex on this object to the one for the vertex on that one... You do texture by poly color, and so far I'm just doing a white fuselage. Should I bother to put UV coordinates on things, or is trying to texture these aircraft just too heavyweight for now? If I get a little better at modeling, maybe I'll try to include one of the stock paint schemes in the model, at the expense of polys. Can I just make the doors double-sided for now, or should I model both an interior and exteror? I guess the downside is that the interior of the doors ends up the same color as the exterior, right? Is it reasonable to end up with two blades by just willy nilly deleting from your blade model, or is there a hidden gotcha intere? Aaaand, talk to me about shadows... Thanks! Dan ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d I would recommend only using the materials for how reflective or emmisive a surface is. Doing colors and transparency with full texturing is not a big deal, especially if you are thinking about it when you make the meshes. In Blender this means putting in seams where appropriate and having a plan for how you what to cram the UV maps into the texture images. I like to do the UV maps as I go, and worry about making the textures later. As far as poly budgets go, I aim for having no more than 10,000 visible at a time. With LOD and clipping this gives you quite a bit to play with. In the cockpit view, most of the model will be clipped, and externally most of the heavy stuff in the cockpit can be LOD'd out. The B-29 has well over 10,000 polys, but no more than about 8000 (?) ever get rendered. In fact, the interior is much heavier than the exterior, even with all the compound curves on the four nacelles and those 16 prop blades (multiplying polys by 16 eats up the budget real fast). The gear was problematic too, but you won't have that issue. Also, I would not cut the doors or windows out until you are entirely happy with the shape of the fuselage. The same goes for creating the interior, as it is easiest to just extrude it from the outer skin. I learned that the hard way on the 29 and it probably cost me hundreds of hours. I also recommend getting *lots* of reference photos before you lay out the first poly. Some stuff is real easy to fix later, some is nearly impossible. Also, making stuff double sided in Blender currently has no effect when exporting to AC3D. You have to duplicate the surface and flip normals. Another good idea is to do the animations as you build the model. You should take advantage of the group function of AC3D, but it leads to some pretty complicated situations when you load it into the plib scene graph in FG, so it's best to stay on top of it from the start. There's a hidden learning curve there. Josh ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
[Flightgear-users] Re: Helicopters in Flight Gear
* Dan Lyke -- Tuesday 25 October 2005 01:56: Does anyone know if the ground effect effects currently in place are moderately realistic? There is no ground effect currently in place at all. This isn't yet modelled. The developer of the YASim helicopter logic has, unfortunately, left without finishing his work. Nobody else has picked it up, yet. (I'm the bo105-model-man, but I'm not much into flight physics.) These were Maik Justus' last words: http://baron.flightgear.org/pipermail/flightgear-devel/2003-October/021940.html m. ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
[Flightgear-users] Re: Helicopters in Flight Gear
* Dan Lyke -- Wednesday 26 October 2005 04:50: And I didn't immediately see if the Bo105 had mast tilt the way that the 206 does. No, it hasn't. The real Bo105 hasn't either. m. ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
[Flightgear-users] Re: Helicopters in Flight Gear
Melchior FRANZ writes: http://baron.flightgear.org/pipermail/flightgear-devel/2003-October/021940.html Thanks. I think I'd seen that message before, but figured it was two years old and something must have happened since then. Having read through that full thread, I'm now thinking that maybe the better thing for me to do would be to buy X-Plane (or, choke, MSFS) for something to fly in the mean-time, and start trying to understand helicopter aerodynamics and eventually, when life slows down enough that I feel like coding in my spare time and I know quite a bit more about helicopters than I do now, writing another helicopter flight model from scratch. In digging through those messages, it seems like an awful lot still datesback to when the flight model was an integer/fixed-point i386 based platform, and some of the issues with my expectations of helicopter flight versus what's actually happening look like they come from limitations of that model, and not just 'cause I don't have a clue (although that is true generally). But at least it explains why I've had *zero* luck trying to autorotate... Dan ___ Flightgear-users mailing list Flightgear-users@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-users 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
