Re[2]: svn commit: r406917 - in /xmlgraphics/fop/trunk: src/java/org/apache/fop/fonts/truetype/TTFFile.java status.xml
Jeremias, Wednesday, May 17, 2006, 10:17:36 AM, you wrote: JM On 17.05.2006 02:02:52 Manuel Mall wrote: I don't know anything about LaTeX. Does it understand TrueType fonts? If so would it be worthwhile to check its source code? JM I don't think so. I can't find any reference. But I've never worked with JM LaTeX. Neither TeX or LaTeX understand TTF fonts. They used much more complex (and thus much more flexible) font system comparing to the FOP. Anyway, for correct baseline-ing it requires only text metric files for any used font to be present. At the translation moment it converts text metric files into binary representation to speed up generation procedure. Real font files are used only in rendering driver to consider various device resolutions. So, to compare FOP and TeX baseline behavior it would be enough to compare metric files. As you know, we were working on MathML rendering using JEuclid. In order to solve the baseline problem (and not only base line, there is bigger problem with some TrueType fonts when you try to put superscript or subscript after the italic text) we modified the FOP metric files. Within next couple of days I'll release JEuclid 3.0 which uses updated metrics. May be this would help you to decide which way this baseline have to be solved. -- Best regards, Gennadiymailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Question about status of JEuclid and possible inclusion in FOP
Dear Max, results of our work (not the latest one, but still good enough for publishing) is available from cvs.sourceforge.net/cvsroot/jeuclid. Now I'm waiting for feedback from anyone of Apache FOP members on review the JEuclid code. At the moment, I have no idea whether some work has been done in this regard. Present status of our work (we still performing some regression tests, but its 99% already done) is the following: - we have merged JEuclid with FOP 0.20.5 (version available under sf.net is based on one of the pre 0.20.4). - we remove all references to AWT library, so now JEuclid is able to work on screenless servers without XWindows configuration. - support badly fonts (e.g. Arial Unicode MS, which we are enforced to use for MathML rendering). Due to last two issues we extended metric files with extended information about symbol location within the glyph. Plans for merging into 0.90 and later are not exists so far because we do have to improve the following functionality of the FOP itself to satisfy our needs (these features are done by us for FOP 0.20.5). 1. Support of embedded PDF's using itext library. 2. Support of the specific logging into files without any use of console (from my point of view, this is absolutely dummy requirement and we can use log4j, but I'm not in charge to modify it). 3. Support of Arial Unicode MS as TYPE1 font, and not as TYPE0 font. 4. Support of phantom attribute on page-sequence. To hide particular pages in PDF result file but take them into account in page numbering. 5. Support both JDK 1.3 and 1.4. This requires us to integrate support of SAXON parser for JDK 1.4 due to nasty bug in xalan shipped with JDK 1.4. However for JDK 1.3 we still have to keep support of xalan. 6. Improving text layout within the merged table cells for lists (I'guess that for FOP 0.90 it is not the issue anymore). 7. Implement specific DTD lookup algorithm (e.g. search for DTD not only in the XML location but also in current directory). From one hand we would like to have the JEuclid integrated into FOP ASAP, however, we cannot follow release schedule of the FOP due to very major changes of FOP due to features above. As far as I understood Jeremias, he recommended us wait until FOray will be integrated into main branch, but this work still not completed (or even canceled???). Concerning licensing issue. We have contacted the JEuclid original publishers and got their permission to re-publish JEuclid to the AFL license as required for FOP integration. Internally, from our side we got all the permissions to publish our work as well. We can commit all necessary statement as required by ASF once our work will be accepted for publication. Concerning your issues: - I would say this is good idea to include jeuclid into xmlgraphics. However, we need some FOP developers comments on the extended metric file. Otherwise, output will be useless in producing paper-ready PDF's. - We already doing that, however only for the TIFF format. This can be easily done by means of fo:external-graphics in the stylesheet (if I understood your work right). - This feature we are mostly interested in. At the moment this implemented by means of xsl:copy-of due to misinterpretation of character entities in xsl:copy implementation. You are absolutely free to re-use our results in any way under terms of AFL. Best regards, Gennadiy Saturday, April 29, 2006, 10:33:17 PM, you wrote: MB Dear Gennady, MB Dear developers, MB I've just recently played around with mathml and tried to include MB that in my fop documents. I've found several tools, and among others MB jeuclid. jeuclid is very complete, it is just missing a few adapter MB classes. I've written a small one to convert mml to svg and it works MB just fine. MB I've then found out that there was work done merging jeuclid into MB fop / xmlgraphics. What is the current status of this? What are the MB license / technical issues? Is this desired at all? MB Here is what I would like to see: MB - include jeuclid in xmlgraphics MB - add code to fop to support the inclusion of mml documents as MB external images. MB - add code to fop to support mml embedded within fo documents MB i would be willing to provide the first two items, if it is legal to MB do so... MB Max -- Best regards, Gennadiymailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re[2]: Question about status of JEuclid and possible inclusion in FOP
Hello Jeremias, I'm not saying that this is simple, I'm just saying pre-conditions, when we would be able to continue invest our efforts into integration into FOP. You are absolutely right, saying that there should be interest of the public community to such a work. At present, we get first feedback/requests on our work after about 5 month of absolute silence. This basically means that there is no demand on this feature. Either peoples are using other solutions or they are simply want to have additional feature in a list which says MathML support without any real background for that. Moreover, what I've learned so far is that FOP is not trying to get publication ready PDF's (what is my case) rather then readable XML. Correct me, if I'm wrong. The reasons for rare commits is that on our side there is more then one developer working on the project. While we do not have any feedback, we do not update public repository and just using our private one. There is another weak reason, why I cannot made release on sourceforge.net. I have only CVS commit rights to the JEuclid project and cannot make any releases. My perception is that we will continue making half-year commits to the sf.net repository with patched FOP and JEuclid which fully covers our needs. If somebody would be interested for somebody to integrate into FOP thunk, s/he is welcome. -- Best regards, Gennadiymailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Wednesday, May 3, 2006, 3:13:11 PM, you wrote: JM I forgot to CC the jeuclid list when I replied to Max. Here's the link: JM http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/xmlgraphics-fop-dev/200604.mbox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] JM Just in case... JM The whole thing about bringing JEuclid into the XML Graphics project is JM not that simple. As I said before, this would be a new subproject which JM means that it would have to go through the Incubator and not only the IP JM clearance process. However, without a live community (at least 2 active JM developers) around the thing it has practically no chance to succeed. I JM have to clarify my position here: I'm not actively using MathML and JM that's why I don't have much time to help here. I'm willing to help JM faciliating a migration if the preconditions are met. The problem is JM that I don't see they are. JEuclid is not unlike Barcode4J (my baby) JM which is also not going to come here mostly because there's no live JM developer community there. Last fall, I was hoping that JEuclid may gain JM some new momentum, but as far as I can see the whole thing was a single JM commit to CVS in December and that was it. Please be aware that such a JM migration is A LOT OF WORK and takes considerable energy. The legal work JM alone is a project in itself. JM So, IMO you should work towards a JEuclid release from within the JM SourceForge project. JEuclid is better served that way. People JM interested in MathML should gather there and strengthen JEuclid from JM within first. FOP can still use JEuclid for MathML handling. What I can JM help with right now is to do a review of JEuclid and update the MathML JM extension for FOP Trunk. This extension can either live here in FOP or JM in JEuclid. I don't care so much. When the JEuclid release is available JM and the FOP extension updated we can bundle JEuclid with FOP as we've JM already decided last year. Same for Barcode4J, BTW. JM If there are strong voices from within the XML Graphics project to adopt JM JEuclid we can reevaluate but until then I don't see JEuclid coming to JM the ASF. As a prebuilt JAR under a compatible license, yes, but not as JM source code. JM On 03.05.2006 13:17:04 Gennadiy Tsarenkov wrote: Dear Max, results of our work (not the latest one, but still good enough for publishing) is available from cvs.sourceforge.net/cvsroot/jeuclid. Now I'm waiting for feedback from anyone of Apache FOP members on review the JEuclid code. At the moment, I have no idea whether some work has been done in this regard. Present status of our work (we still performing some regression tests, but its 99% already done) is the following: - we have merged JEuclid with FOP 0.20.5 (version available under sf.net is based on one of the pre 0.20.4). - we remove all references to AWT library, so now JEuclid is able to work on screenless servers without XWindows configuration. - support badly fonts (e.g. Arial Unicode MS, which we are enforced to use for MathML rendering). Due to last two issues we extended metric files with extended information about symbol location within the glyph. Plans for merging into 0.90 and later are not exists so far because we do have to improve the following functionality of the FOP itself to satisfy our needs (these features are done by us for FOP 0.20.5). 1. Support of embedded PDF's using itext library. 2. Support of the specific logging into files without any use of console (from my point of view
MathML for fop-trunk
Hello all, some time ago my colleague announced that we are working on MathML implementation for FOP. Our work is based on the JEuclid library. Now we completed code review to comply with ASF code requirements. Our results are available from CVS at :pserver:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/cvsroot/jeuclid (http://sourceforge.net/projects/jeuclid/). Among MathML feature we made several additional features for fop-0.20.4. These features are also included into test/first-demo and consists of - to embed PDF's; - to have bold, italic styles for TTF Unicode fonts (namely Arial Unicode MS). Now we are thinking of integrating these features into fop-trunk. Please, have a look whether our results is satisfactory to become part of fop or xmlgraphics at ASF. Any of the comments are welcome. There are also several issues, that we would like to ask here to make resolve them in general way: 1. How to configure font to render MathML. Most of the font does not contain enough mathematical symbols to render complex mathematical formulas. At the moment we have constant pointing to Arial Unicode MS (as mostly completed Unicode font). We were tried to make support of another font but stop this activity after finding out that (in this font Integral symbol is missing but Top Half Integral and Bottom Half Integral are present). We need an idea how we could handle such situations in a general way. 2. When rendering MathML we used awt.Font class, which is not accessible on the Unix boxes without X-server installed. The awt.Font class is used to get font size for proper position of the upper and lower indexes and so on. Are there any chance, that we could re-use Fop generated metrics? Where we could start look at that? Taking into consideration these to issues, I guess, that JEuclid is still to young, however, it is already powerful enough to start look at it. -- Best regards, Gennadiy Tsarenkov
