Re: XSL vs. FOP [was: Re: pagenumbering]
Hi, as you said, XSL is separated in 2 things: - XML transformation (namespace http://www.w3.org/1999/XSL/Transform) - Formating objects (namespace http://www.w3.org/1999/XSL/Format) using the same name for this 2 separate things is quite unclear, so in FOP lists we speak about either XSLT (about the former), or XSL-FO (about the latter). It is mainly for convenience that we use here these 2 short words: XSLT Vs XSL-FO What FOP engine takes as input is XSL-FO (tags fo:xxx), so it is important to understand the difference between the 2 above. Why XSL project splitted into 2 subprojects is out of topic here. Le 31/08/2011 06:09, Christopher R. Maden a écrit : On 08/30/2011 11:41 PM, Glenn Adams wrote: We may be applying different ontological models here. That does seem likely, since... I label anything having to do with XSL-FO as FO related. I label anything having to do with XSLT as XSL related. For me, FO related != XSL related. The XSL-FO language is defined in URL: http://www.w3.org/TR/xsl/ , “Extensible Stylesheet Language (XSL).” Early drafts did not even separate the transformation and formatting parts of XSL, but since the transformation was so useful on its own, it was spun out. However, formatting was the primary goal of the XSL work. IOW, FO *is* XSL. XSLT is a by-product, but is often (mistakenly) called “XSL.” Because FOP supports both XSL(T) [indirectly} and FO, it certainly covers both areas, but as far as I'm concerned the XSL(T) portion of it is a convenience function, unrelated to its core functionality. I concur with that... it is now clear that the only confusion is whether or not FO is part of XSL; I hope the title of the W3C Recommendation defining it clarifies that. [Argumentum ad verecundiam: I was on the W3C XSL Working Group from its inception in 1997 until 2002.] It is also quite clear at URL: http://www.mulberrytech.com/xsl/xsl-list/#introduction that XSL-FO is in scope for that list. I wouldn’t and can’t stop anyone from posting questions about FO here. However, I will try, in my answers, to make clear whether their questions pertain to FOP behavior or whether they would have the same questions regardless of which tool they were using. ~Chris -- Pascal - To unsubscribe, e-mail: fop-users-unsubscr...@xmlgraphics.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: fop-users-h...@xmlgraphics.apache.org
RE: XSL vs. FOP [was: Re: pagenumbering]
XSLFO is what you get when you combine XSLT with XML. XSLFO is an extension of XSLT and includes XSLT commands. XSLFO is as unrelated to FOP as XSLT when you're talking about it's creation for expected output. If you want only FOP related questions they should be about XSLFO commands and only as far as whether they're supported and whether they're producing the expected output. There is likely a better place for questions about how to generate XSLT or XSLFO which should produce particular output which don't question whether FOP is processing it correctly, and you're welcome to point people to such a place if you don't have an answer or don't feel like answering, though I personally wouldn't mind helping if I do have an answer. I use FOP with XML + XSLT with embedded code. I have had some issues with how FOP works which require looking at the XSLFO, so I actually split the process so I call the Java transform method twice. One passes the XSL on the Transformer create and the XML as input and the output is XSLFO I can write to a file if I need. The second transform uses no XSL and passes the XSLFO as input and the FOP handler on the output. If you don't want to 'misspend' any time answering questions that should include questions about how to write XSLT or XSLFO. Once someone has valid XSLFO and they're not getting the expected output then it's an FOP question. From: Glenn Adams [mailto:gl...@skynav.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2011 11:41 PM To: fop-users@xmlgraphics.apache.org Subject: Re: XSL vs. FOP [was: Re: pagenumbering] Christopher, We may be applying different ontological models here. I label anything having to do with XSL-FO as FO related. I label anything having to do with XSLT as XSL related. For me, FO related != XSL related. In fact, there is no necessary logical connection between the two, except insofar as FO borrows/reuses certain constructs from XSL(T), the only one of which I know of is the number to string conversion properties, which, coincidentally, have to do with the current subject matter: page number generation. In any case, by model, page number properties are FO related, not XSL related. Because FOP supports both XSL(T) [indirectly} and FO, it certainly covers both areas, but as far as I'm concerned the XSL(T) portion of it is a convenience function, unrelated to its core functionality. Given the amount of traffic (mis)spent on issues related to the XSL(T) features of FOP, I often wish it did not support this convenience function. But that's neither here nor there. G. On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 9:12 AM, Christopher R. Maden cr...@maden.org wrote: On 08/30/2011 10:52 AM, Glenn Adams wrote: actually, this is an FO issue, not XSL, since it is FOP that generates page numbers via fo:page-number XSL encompasses both Formatting Objects (sometimes XSL-FO) and XSL Tranformations (XSLT). An FO issue *is* an XSL issue. It is FOP that generates page numbers, but what Theresa needed was the FO instruction, which is agnostic about the software that consumes it (whether FOP, RenderX, Antenna House, or anything else). The XSL List (URL: http://www.mulberrytech.com/xsl/xsl-list/ ) covers all of XSL, including XSL-FO. We've previously had discussions on this list about allowing XML+XSLT as input to FOP, and the potential user confusion that results as to what FOP actually does. For similar reasons, when I reply to questions here, I try to make it clear what parts are specific to FOP, and which questions are about XML, XSLT, or FO, and orthogonal to FOP's operation specifically. the correct answer is that you need to use the initial-page-number property on fo:page-sequence to specify a different starting number than is generated by auto; see http://www.w3.org/TR/2006/REC-xsl11-20061205/#initial-page-number and and http://www.w3.org/TR/2006/REC-xsl11-20061205/#fo_page-sequence for details; Yes, and I apologize for not taking the time to look up the references that Theresa needs. ~Chris [Emotional content notice (since plain text is really bad at communicating this): I want to be very clear that I am not attacking or criticizing Glenn or Theresa. And certainly, I've known Glenn by his work for far too long to accuse him of anything remotely resembling ignorance. I have simply attempted to be somewhat detailed and pedantic here for maximal clarity to everyone who might read this.] -- Chris Maden, text nerd URL: http://crism.maden.org/ The present tendency and drift towards the Police State gives all free Americans pause. - Alabama Supreme Court, 1955 (Pike
RE: XSL vs. FOP [was: Re: pagenumbering]
And my question was about the FO fo:page-number/ tag therefore a FOP question Ie how do I get the output I need when using the tag.. Kindest regards Theresa Forster Senior Software Developer From: Eric Douglas [mailto:edoug...@blockhouse.com] Sent: 31 August 2011 13:37 To: fop-users@xmlgraphics.apache.org Subject: RE: XSL vs. FOP [was: Re: pagenumbering] XSLFO is what you get when you combine XSLT with XML. XSLFO is an extension of XSLT and includes XSLT commands. XSLFO is as unrelated to FOP as XSLT when you're talking about it's creation for expected output. If you want only FOP related questions they should be about XSLFO commands and only as far as whether they're supported and whether they're producing the expected output. There is likely a better place for questions about how to generate XSLT or XSLFO which should produce particular output which don't question whether FOP is processing it correctly, and you're welcome to point people to such a place if you don't have an answer or don't feel like answering, though I personally wouldn't mind helping if I do have an answer. I use FOP with XML + XSLT with embedded code. I have had some issues with how FOP works which require looking at the XSLFO, so I actually split the process so I call the Java transform method twice. One passes the XSL on the Transformer create and the XML as input and the output is XSLFO I can write to a file if I need. The second transform uses no XSL and passes the XSLFO as input and the FOP handler on the output. If you don't want to 'misspend' any time answering questions that should include questions about how to write XSLT or XSLFO. Once someone has valid XSLFO and they're not getting the expected output then it's an FOP question. _ From: Glenn Adams [mailto:gl...@skynav.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2011 11:41 PM To: fop-users@xmlgraphics.apache.org Subject: Re: XSL vs. FOP [was: Re: pagenumbering] Christopher, We may be applying different ontological models here. I label anything having to do with XSL-FO as FO related. I label anything having to do with XSLT as XSL related. For me, FO related != XSL related. In fact, there is no necessary logical connection between the two, except insofar as FO borrows/reuses certain constructs from XSL(T), the only one of which I know of is the number to string conversion properties, which, coincidentally, have to do with the current subject matter: page number generation. In any case, by model, page number properties are FO related, not XSL related. Because FOP supports both XSL(T) [indirectly} and FO, it certainly covers both areas, but as far as I'm concerned the XSL(T) portion of it is a convenience function, unrelated to its core functionality. Given the amount of traffic (mis)spent on issues related to the XSL(T) features of FOP, I often wish it did not support this convenience function. But that's neither here nor there. G. On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 9:12 AM, Christopher R. Maden cr...@maden.org wrote: On 08/30/2011 10:52 AM, Glenn Adams wrote: actually, this is an FO issue, not XSL, since it is FOP that generates page numbers via fo:page-number XSL encompasses both Formatting Objects (sometimes XSL-FO) and XSL Tranformations (XSLT). An FO issue *is* an XSL issue. It is FOP that generates page numbers, but what Theresa needed was the FO instruction, which is agnostic about the software that consumes it (whether FOP, RenderX, Antenna House, or anything else). The XSL List (URL: http://www.mulberrytech.com/xsl/xsl-list/ ) covers all of XSL, including XSL-FO. We've previously had discussions on this list about allowing XML+XSLT as input to FOP, and the potential user confusion that results as to what FOP actually does. For similar reasons, when I reply to questions here, I try to make it clear what parts are specific to FOP, and which questions are about XML, XSLT, or FO, and orthogonal to FOP's operation specifically. the correct answer is that you need to use the initial-page-number property on fo:page-sequence to specify a different starting number than is generated by auto; see http://www.w3.org/TR/2006/REC-xsl11-20061205/#initial-page-number and and http://www.w3.org/TR/2006/REC-xsl11-20061205/#fo_page-sequence for details; Yes, and I apologize for not taking the time to look up the references that Theresa needs. ~Chris [Emotional content notice (since plain text is really bad at communicating this): I want to be very clear that I am not attacking or criticizing Glenn or Theresa. And certainly, I've known Glenn by his work for far too long to accuse him of anything remotely resembling ignorance. I have simply attempted to be somewhat detailed and pedantic here for maximal clarity to everyone who might read this.] -- Chris Maden, text nerd URL: http://crism.maden.org/ The present tendency and drift towards the Police State gives all free Americans pause.. - Alabama
RE: pagenumbering
Hey Theresa, Not sure if this answer your question, I need to start the page 1 after cover page and Table of contents xsl:call-template name=insert_cover_page_template/ xsl:call-template name=insert_bookmarks/ xsl:call-template name=insert_table_of_contents_page_template/ Then I bought in my contents template xsl:call-template name=insert_contents_page_template/ Inside the insert_contents_page_template xsl:template name=insert_contents_page_template fo:page-sequence master-reference=A4-landscape initial-page-number=1 xsl:call-template name=insert_page_header-template/ xsl:call-template name=side_bar/ xsl:call-template name=insert_page_footer_template/ fo:flow flow-name=xsl-region-body xsl:apply-templates/ fo:block id=TheVeryLastPage/ /fo:flow /fo:page-sequence /xsl:template Page number template !-- page number -- xsl:template name=page_number fo:block-container absolute-position=absolute top=5mm fo:block font-family=sans-serif font-size=7pt text-align=right color=black Page fo:page-number/ of fo:page-number-citation ref-id=TheVeryLastPage/ /fo:block /fo:block-container /xsl:template Finally,Insert page number into footer template !-- footer -- xsl:template name=insert_page_footer_template fo:static-content flow-name=xsl-region-after . . . xsl:call-template name=page_number/ /fo:static-content /xsl:template Now the Page 1 of X will start on the first content page, not on my cover page or table of contents page. Regards Chen Yang Programmer / Analyst HRSG (Human Resource Systems Group) 6 Antares Drive,Phase II Suite 100 Ottawa, ON, K2E 8A9 Tel:613-745-6605 tel:613-745-6605 x 254 Fax:613-745-4019 Email: cy...@hrsg.ca mailto:cy...@hrsg.ca Web: www.hrsg.ca http://www.hrsg.ca/ Competency-based HR Solutions From: Theresa Jayne Forster [mailto:ther...@inbrand.co.uk] Sent: August-30-11 9:50 AM To: fop-users@xmlgraphics.apache.org Subject: pagenumbering I was wondering, how can you change the page numbering on page-number-citation stuff, We have the requirement of numbering starting on the inside cover as page 1 not page 2 as currently the front page is classed as page 1. Is there any way to make the numbering start from 1 on the inside of the front cover? Kindest regards Theresa Forster Senior Software Developer
RE: pagenumbering
Thanks for the response but the question was already answered, but then a petty discussion started about whether fo:page-number was FOP or XSLT Kindest regards Theresa Forster Senior Software Developer From: Chen Yang [mailto:cy...@hrsg.ca] Sent: 31 August 2011 14:20 To: fop-users@xmlgraphics.apache.org Subject: RE: pagenumbering Hey Theresa, Not sure if this answer your question, I need to start the page 1 after cover page and Table of contents xsl:call-template name=insert_cover_page_template/ xsl:call-template name=insert_bookmarks/ xsl:call-template name=insert_table_of_contents_page_template/ Then I bought in my contents template xsl:call-template name=insert_contents_page_template/ Inside the insert_contents_page_template xsl:template name=insert_contents_page_template fo:page-sequence master-reference=A4-landscape initial-page-number=1 xsl:call-template name=insert_page_header-template/ xsl:call-template name=side_bar/ xsl:call-template name=insert_page_footer_template/ fo:flow flow-name=xsl-region-body xsl:apply-templates/ fo:block id=TheVeryLastPage/ /fo:flow /fo:page-sequence /xsl:template Page number template !-- page number -- xsl:template name=page_number fo:block-container absolute-position=absolute top=5mm fo:block font-family=sans-serif font-size=7pt text-align=right color=black Page fo:page-number/ of fo:page-number-citation ref-id=TheVeryLastPage/ /fo:block /fo:block-container /xsl:template Finally,Insert page number into footer template !-- footer -- xsl:template name=insert_page_footer_template fo:static-content flow-name=xsl-region-after . . . xsl:call-template name=page_number/ /fo:static-content /xsl:template Now the Page 1 of X will start on the first content page, not on my cover page or table of contents page. Regards Chen Yang Programmer / Analyst HRSG (Human Resource Systems Group) 6 Antares Drive,Phase II Suite 100 Ottawa, ON, K2E 8A9 tel:613-745-6605 Tel:613-745-6605 x 254 Fax:613-745-4019 Email: mailto:cy...@hrsg.ca cy...@hrsg.ca Web:http://www.hrsg.ca/ www.hrsg.ca Competency-based HR Solutions From: Theresa Jayne Forster [mailto:ther...@inbrand.co.uk] Sent: August-30-11 9:50 AM To: fop-users@xmlgraphics.apache.org Subject: pagenumbering I was wondering, how can you change the page numbering on page-number-citation stuff, We have the requirement of numbering starting on the inside cover as page 1 not page 2 as currently the front page is classed as page 1. Is there any way to make the numbering start from 1 on the inside of the front cover? Kindest regards Theresa Forster Senior Software Developer _ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1392 / Virus Database: 1520/3866 - Release Date: 08/29/11
RE: pagenumbering
I agree that discussion was petty. If someone thought the question was off topic they are welcome to respond with links to point you somewhere you might get better answers or ignore the question. While I haven't checked what other XSLFO processors exist, it seems the XSLT and XSLFO specifications are both generic and unrelated to FOP. If the question is about creating XSL in either form it may be technically off topic, though I for one don't care. If the question is about how FOP specifically interprets your XSLFO, or about whether a feature is supported then it's most relevant. I use FOP in a most unconventional way but I've stuck with it for 2 reasons I can think of. 1) I don't know of any other free project which creates PDFs with all the options FOP has. 2) FOP was initially recommended to us by a consultant and I've gotten it to work so if it isn't broken there's no need to change. If there is another PDF create project with all the features we need that can create more efficiently we'll likely switch eventually. FOP doesn't handle large transforms. I tested creating a 1000 page PDF and it ran out of memory, though the output is small and the input is reasonably small. I got around this bug by creating 1 page PDFs. We generate our input programmatically so we know what goes on each page, so I just broke it up. I increment the page number on each PDF and just pass it in as a tag. fo:page-sequence xsl:attribute name=master-referenceSTANDARD_PAGE/xsl:attribute xsl:attribute name=initial-page-numberxsl:value-of select=IPN//xsl:attribute Then I use pdfbox to mrge the resulting PDFs. From: Theresa Jayne Forster [mailto:ther...@inbrand.co.uk] Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 9:41 AM To: fop-users@xmlgraphics.apache.org Subject: RE: pagenumbering Thanks for the response but the question was already answered, but then a petty discussion started about whether fo:page-number was FOP or XSLT Kindest regards Theresa Forster Senior Software Developer From: Chen Yang [mailto:cy...@hrsg.ca] Sent: 31 August 2011 14:20 To: fop-users@xmlgraphics.apache.org Subject: RE: pagenumbering Hey Theresa, Not sure if this answer your question, I need to start the page 1 after cover page and Table of contents xsl:call-template name=insert_cover_page_template/ xsl:call-template name=insert_bookmarks/ xsl:call-template name=insert_table_of_contents_page_template/ Then I bought in my contents template xsl:call-template name=insert_contents_page_template/ Inside the insert_contents_page_template xsl:template name=insert_contents_page_template fo:page-sequence master-reference=A4-landscape initial-page-number=1 xsl:call-template name=insert_page_header-template/ xsl:call-template name=side_bar/ xsl:call-template name=insert_page_footer_template/ fo:flow flow-name=xsl-region-body xsl:apply-templates/ fo:block id=TheVeryLastPage/ /fo:flow /fo:page-sequence /xsl:template Page number template !-- page number -- xsl:template name=page_number fo:block-container absolute-position=absolute top=5mm fo:block font-family=sans-serif font-size=7pt text-align=right color=black Page fo:page-number/ of fo:page-number-citation ref-id=TheVeryLastPage/ /fo:block /fo:block-container /xsl:template Finally,Insert page number into footer template !-- footer -- xsl:template name=insert_page_footer_template fo:static-content flow-name=xsl-region-after . . . xsl:call-template name=page_number/ /fo:static-content /xsl:template Now the Page 1 of X will start on the first content page, not on my cover page or table of contents page. Regards Chen Yang Programmer / Analyst HRSG (Human Resource Systems Group) 6 Antares Drive,Phase II Suite 100 Ottawa, ON, K2E 8A9 Tel:613-745-6605 tel:613-745-6605 x 254 Fax:613-745-4019 Email: cy...@hrsg.ca mailto:cy...@hrsg.ca Web: www.hrsg.ca http://www.hrsg.ca/ Competency-based HR Solutions From: Theresa Jayne Forster [mailto:ther...@inbrand.co.uk] Sent: August-30-11 9:50 AM To: fop-users@xmlgraphics.apache.org Subject: pagenumbering I was wondering, how can you change the page numbering on page-number-citation stuff, We have the requirement of numbering starting on the inside cover as page 1 not page 2 as currently the front page is classed as page 1. Is there any way to make the numbering start from 1 on the inside of the front cover? Kindest regards Theresa Forster Senior Software Developer
RE: pagenumbering
Eric, That thought had crossed my mind, but we take a random amount of formatted text from a CMS and pass it into FOP using a template, the output however was doing the cover page as page 1 rather than the inside of the cover, the answer I got was what I was looking for, I had been looking at the page-number tag not the page-sequence tag and initial-page-number tag, This in my opinion is FO as it is the input to FOP without needing any XSLT. Thank you all who have assisted and while I think the discussion was interesting, we should leave it for now, or risk upsetting the majority of users on this list. Kindest regards Theresa Forster Senior Software Developer From: Eric Douglas [mailto:edoug...@blockhouse.com] Sent: 31 August 2011 16:17 To: fop-users@xmlgraphics.apache.org Subject: RE: pagenumbering I agree that discussion was petty. If someone thought the question was off topic they are welcome to respond with links to point you somewhere you might get better answers or ignore the question. While I haven't checked what other XSLFO processors exist, it seems the XSLT and XSLFO specifications are both generic and unrelated to FOP. If the question is about creating XSL in either form it may be technically off topic, though I for one don't care. If the question is about how FOP specifically interprets your XSLFO, or about whether a feature is supported then it's most relevant. I use FOP in a most unconventional way but I've stuck with it for 2 reasons I can think of. 1) I don't know of any other free project which creates PDFs with all the options FOP has. 2) FOP was initially recommended to us by a consultant and I've gotten it to work so if it isn't broken there's no need to change. If there is another PDF create project with all the features we need that can create more efficiently we'll likely switch eventually. FOP doesn't handle large transforms. I tested creating a 1000 page PDF and it ran out of memory, though the output is small and the input is reasonably small. I got around this bug by creating 1 page PDFs. We generate our input programmatically so we know what goes on each page, so I just broke it up. I increment the page number on each PDF and just pass it in as a tag. fo:page-sequence xsl:attribute name=master-referenceSTANDARD_PAGE/xsl:attribute xsl:attribute name=initial-page-numberxsl:value-of select=IPN//xsl:attribute Then I use pdfbox to mrge the resulting PDFs. _ From: Theresa Jayne Forster [mailto:ther...@inbrand.co.uk] Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 9:41 AM To: fop-users@xmlgraphics.apache.org Subject: RE: pagenumbering Thanks for the response but the question was already answered, but then a petty discussion started about whether fo:page-number was FOP or XSLT Kindest regards Theresa Forster Senior Software Developer From: Chen Yang [mailto:cy...@hrsg.ca] Sent: 31 August 2011 14:20 To: fop-users@xmlgraphics.apache.org Subject: RE: pagenumbering Hey Theresa, Not sure if this answer your question, I need to start the page 1 after cover page and Table of contents xsl:call-template name=insert_cover_page_template/ xsl:call-template name=insert_bookmarks/ xsl:call-template name=insert_table_of_contents_page_template/ Then I bought in my contents template xsl:call-template name=insert_contents_page_template/ Inside the insert_contents_page_template xsl:template name=insert_contents_page_template fo:page-sequence master-reference=A4-landscape initial-page-number=1 xsl:call-template name=insert_page_header-template/ xsl:call-template name=side_bar/ xsl:call-template name=insert_page_footer_template/ fo:flow flow-name=xsl-region-body xsl:apply-templates/ fo:block id=TheVeryLastPage/ /fo:flow /fo:page-sequence /xsl:template Page number template !-- page number -- xsl:template name=page_number fo:block-container absolute-position=absolute top=5mm fo:block font-family=sans-serif font-size=7pt text-align=right color=black Page fo:page-number/ of fo:page-number-citation ref-id=TheVeryLastPage/ /fo:block /fo:block-container /xsl:template Finally,Insert page number into footer template !-- footer -- xsl:template name=insert_page_footer_template fo:static-content flow-name=xsl-region-after .. . .. xsl:call-template name=page_number/ /fo:static-content /xsl:template Now the Page 1 of X will start on the first content page, not on my cover page or table of contents page. Regards Chen Yang Programmer / Analyst HRSG (Human Resource
Re: XSL vs. FOP [was: Re: pagenumbering]
I completely agree with the last sentence in your email. When I talk about mis-spending time, I am referring to discussions about the process of creating a valid XSLFO file. However, that is just my opinion. Someone else made the decision to include the XML via XSLT to XSLFO process in FOP, so we have to live with that. But since that is just a convenience function in FOP, and not an aspect of the core engine of FOP, I find discussions of the XML via XSTL to XSLFO process to be a distraction from the core features of FOP. If it had been my decision, I would not have included that convenience function in FOP, but that's irrelevant at this point. G. P.S. Though I wasn't a member of the XSL WG, I was an active participant of the XSL-FO subgroup from the time of its inauguration to the publishing of XSL 1.0. Prior to that I was an active participant in ISO SC18/WG8 in developing ISO/IEC 10179 Document Style Semantics and Specification Language (DSSSL), which was the logical precursor to both XSLT and XSL-FO. Indeed, I was an early proponent of separating the transformation and formatting aspects of DSSSL that was eventually translated into separate XSLT and XSL-FO specs. On Wed, Aug 31, 2011 at 6:36 AM, Eric Douglas edoug...@blockhouse.comwrote: ** Once someone has valid XSLFO and they're not getting the expected output then it's an FOP question. -- *From:* Glenn Adams [mailto:gl...@skynav.com] *Sent:* Tuesday, August 30, 2011 11:41 PM *To:* fop-users@xmlgraphics.apache.org *Subject:* Re: XSL vs. FOP [was: Re: pagenumbering] Christopher, We may be applying different ontological models here. I label anything having to do with XSL-FO as FO related. I label anything having to do with XSLT as XSL related. For me, FO related != XSL related. In fact, there is no necessary logical connection between the two, except insofar as FO borrows/reuses certain constructs from XSL(T), the only one of which I know of is the number to string conversion properties, which, coincidentally, have to do with the current subject matter: page number generation. In any case, by model, page number properties are FO related, not XSL related. Because FOP supports both XSL(T) [indirectly} and FO, it certainly covers both areas, but as far as I'm concerned the XSL(T) portion of it is a convenience function, unrelated to its core functionality. Given the amount of traffic (mis)spent on issues related to the XSL(T) features of FOP, I often wish it did not support this convenience function. But that's neither here nor there. G. On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 9:12 AM, Christopher R. Maden cr...@maden.orgwrote: On 08/30/2011 10:52 AM, Glenn Adams wrote: actually, this is an FO issue, not XSL, since it is FOP that generates page numbers via fo:page-number XSL encompasses both Formatting Objects (sometimes “XSL-FO”) and XSL Tranformations (XSLT). An FO issue *is* an XSL issue. It is FOP that generates page numbers, but what Theresa needed was the FO instruction, which is agnostic about the software that consumes it (whether FOP, RenderX, Antenna House, or anything else). The XSL List (URL: http://www.mulberrytech.com/xsl/xsl-list/ ) covers all of XSL, including XSL-FO. We’ve previously had discussions on this list about allowing XML+XSLT as input to FOP, and the potential user confusion that results as to what FOP actually does. For similar reasons, when I reply to questions here, I try to make it clear what parts are specific to FOP, and which questions are about XML, XSLT, or FO, and orthogonal to FOP’s operation specifically. the correct answer is that you need to use the initial-page-number property on fo:page-sequence to specify a different starting number than is generated by auto; see http://www.w3.org/TR/2006/REC-xsl11-20061205/#initial-page-number and and http://www.w3.org/TR/2006/REC-xsl11-20061205/#fo_page-sequence for details; Yes, and I apologize for not taking the time to look up the references that Theresa needs. ~Chris [Emotional content notice (since plain text is really bad at communicating this): I want to be very clear that I am not attacking or criticizing Glenn or Theresa. And certainly, I’ve known Glenn by his work for far too long to accuse him of anything remotely resembling ignorance. I have simply attempted to be somewhat detailed and pedantic here for maximal clarity to everyone who might read this.] -- Chris Maden, text nerd URL: http://crism.maden.org/ “The present tendency and drift towards the Police State gives all free Americans pause.” — Alabama Supreme Court, 1955 (Pike v. Southern Bell Tel. Telegraph, 81 So.2d 254) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: fop-users-unsubscr...@xmlgraphics.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: fop-users-h...@xmlgraphics.apache.org
Re: XSL vs. FOP [was: Re: pagenumbering]
s/the publishing of XSL 1.0/the publishing of XSL-FO 1.0/ On Wed, Aug 31, 2011 at 10:19 AM, Glenn Adams gl...@skynav.com wrote: I completely agree with the last sentence in your email. When I talk about mis-spending time, I am referring to discussions about the process of creating a valid XSLFO file. However, that is just my opinion. Someone else made the decision to include the XML via XSLT to XSLFO process in FOP, so we have to live with that. But since that is just a convenience function in FOP, and not an aspect of the core engine of FOP, I find discussions of the XML via XSTL to XSLFO process to be a distraction from the core features of FOP. If it had been my decision, I would not have included that convenience function in FOP, but that's irrelevant at this point. G. P.S. Though I wasn't a member of the XSL WG, I was an active participant of the XSL-FO subgroup from the time of its inauguration to the publishing of XSL 1.0. Prior to that I was an active participant in ISO SC18/WG8 in developing ISO/IEC 10179 Document Style Semantics and Specification Language (DSSSL), which was the logical precursor to both XSLT and XSL-FO. Indeed, I was an early proponent of separating the transformation and formatting aspects of DSSSL that was eventually translated into separate XSLT and XSL-FO specs. On Wed, Aug 31, 2011 at 6:36 AM, Eric Douglas edoug...@blockhouse.comwrote: ** Once someone has valid XSLFO and they're not getting the expected output then it's an FOP question. -- *From:* Glenn Adams [mailto:gl...@skynav.com] *Sent:* Tuesday, August 30, 2011 11:41 PM *To:* fop-users@xmlgraphics.apache.org *Subject:* Re: XSL vs. FOP [was: Re: pagenumbering] Christopher, We may be applying different ontological models here. I label anything having to do with XSL-FO as FO related. I label anything having to do with XSLT as XSL related. For me, FO related != XSL related. In fact, there is no necessary logical connection between the two, except insofar as FO borrows/reuses certain constructs from XSL(T), the only one of which I know of is the number to string conversion properties, which, coincidentally, have to do with the current subject matter: page number generation. In any case, by model, page number properties are FO related, not XSL related. Because FOP supports both XSL(T) [indirectly} and FO, it certainly covers both areas, but as far as I'm concerned the XSL(T) portion of it is a convenience function, unrelated to its core functionality. Given the amount of traffic (mis)spent on issues related to the XSL(T) features of FOP, I often wish it did not support this convenience function. But that's neither here nor there. G. On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 9:12 AM, Christopher R. Maden cr...@maden.orgwrote: On 08/30/2011 10:52 AM, Glenn Adams wrote: actually, this is an FO issue, not XSL, since it is FOP that generates page numbers via fo:page-number XSL encompasses both Formatting Objects (sometimes “XSL-FO”) and XSL Tranformations (XSLT). An FO issue *is* an XSL issue. It is FOP that generates page numbers, but what Theresa needed was the FO instruction, which is agnostic about the software that consumes it (whether FOP, RenderX, Antenna House, or anything else). The XSL List (URL: http://www.mulberrytech.com/xsl/xsl-list/ ) covers all of XSL, including XSL-FO. We’ve previously had discussions on this list about allowing XML+XSLT as input to FOP, and the potential user confusion that results as to what FOP actually does. For similar reasons, when I reply to questions here, I try to make it clear what parts are specific to FOP, and which questions are about XML, XSLT, or FO, and orthogonal to FOP’s operation specifically. the correct answer is that you need to use the initial-page-number property on fo:page-sequence to specify a different starting number than is generated by auto; see http://www.w3.org/TR/2006/REC-xsl11-20061205/#initial-page-number and and http://www.w3.org/TR/2006/REC-xsl11-20061205/#fo_page-sequence for details; Yes, and I apologize for not taking the time to look up the references that Theresa needs. ~Chris [Emotional content notice (since plain text is really bad at communicating this): I want to be very clear that I am not attacking or criticizing Glenn or Theresa. And certainly, I’ve known Glenn by his work for far too long to accuse him of anything remotely resembling ignorance. I have simply attempted to be somewhat detailed and pedantic here for maximal clarity to everyone who might read this.] -- Chris Maden, text nerd URL: http://crism.maden.org/ “The present tendency and drift towards the Police State gives all free Americans pause.” — Alabama Supreme Court, 1955 (Pike v. Southern Bell Tel. Telegraph, 81 So.2d 254) - To unsubscribe, e-mail:
Re: Building fop from source using qdox 1.11
I made some notes about possible alternative build procedures on the FOP wiki, http://wiki.apache.org/xmlgraphics-fop/HowTo/BuildFOPAlternatively Simon On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 01:37:56PM +0200, Simon Pepping wrote: I see that you resolved the problem by copying qdox.jar from /usr/share/java to lib/build before the build process. I installed the resulting package fop_1.0.dfsg2-2 and ran it on a few test files. The result was OK. It would be good if alternative builds of fop would run a number of our junit tests. The fop team should look into this to formulate a recommendation. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: fop-users-unsubscr...@xmlgraphics.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: fop-users-h...@xmlgraphics.apache.org
