Re: [fossil-users] Chiselapp.com shutting down
On Fri, Mar 29, 2013 at 12:48 AM, Timothy Beyer bey...@fastmail.net wrote: At Thu, 28 Mar 2013 20:52:59 -0400, James Turner wrote: After a couple weeks of debate, I've decided to shut down Chiselapp.com. I think that the Fossil project should aim to have at least one official host to replace chiselapp. Yes, I suppose there really ought to be a hosting service for Fossil someplace So I'm exploring the option of setting up a new one. The first decision is (1) whether to use James' Flint code base or (2) write my own. Those who know me recognize that I would tend toward (2). (Were it not for this tendency, Fossil and SQLite might not exist, after all.) Suppose I did write my own hosting system. What is is required for that. (James, you have the most experience with this question, so your input is especially encouraged!) (1) Some means for people to create accounts (2) Some means for people to upload Fossil repositories to hosted (3) Per-account bandwidth tracking? (4) Require advertising (example http://system.data.sqlite.org/) for unpaid accounts? (5) Require unpaid accounts to be open-source? (6) Some mechanism to accept payment for private or add-free accounts? (7) Procedures to deal with DMCA takedown requests? What else is needed? James, what are your bandwidth, cpu, and disk space requirements? (You can send me that via private email if you prefer.) -- D. Richard Hipp d...@sqlite.org ___ fossil-users mailing list fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users
[fossil-users] Question about Source forge Fossil hosting
Hi, I have used Chiselapp for hosting some Fossil project but just got a note that he is shutting down May first. So I decided to try the source forge version (http://fossilrepos.sourceforge.net/) . Very easy to create a project but my previous experience with Chisel seems to not to apply as I was trying to push the repository there it just didn't work. Has anyone else had success with this ? --jim schimpf ___ fossil-users mailing list fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users
Re: [fossil-users] Chiselapp.com shutting down
Thank you, James, for Chiselapp. I'm sorry to see it go.
On Mar 29, 2013, at 7:55 AM, Richard Hipp d...@sqlite.org wrote:
(5) Require unpaid accounts to be open-source?
One of the most important things that drew me to Chiselapp, and to using Fossil
for personal projects, was free private accounts. It is important to have a low
barrier to entry. I imagine there would need to be bandwidth and storage
limitations for free accounts, but these limits should be set up so a new user
would be assured that the limits would not be exceeded accidentally. They could
be big enough to make this obvious, or actual usage could be reported
prominently to the repo owner.
(4) Require advertising (example http://system.data.sqlite.org/) for
unpaid accounts?
I find the word advertising to be confusing here in the context of the
linked page.
Do you mean banner ads on pages in unpaid accounts? That would be OK to me.
(6) Some mechanism to accept payment for private or add-free accounts?
Yes.
My Chiselapp usage includes a mix of open-source and private repos in the same
account, so perhaps the designation of {open/free, open/paid, private/free,
private/paid} should be on a repo-basis and not on an account basis.
e
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Re: [fossil-users] Chiselapp.com shutting down
Op 29-3-2013 1:52, James Turner schreef: After a couple weeks of debate, I've decided to shut down Chiselapp.com. As the message on the homepage states, new account and repository creation has been disabled. Access to the website and repositories will remain open until May 1st 2013. Sad to see it go, I really liked its simplicity (both in usage and looks). If someone wanted to carry on the initiative, could you tell us approximately what the load would be, both in terms of bandwidth and storage space? A big thanks for everyone who's used the service, sadly I just don't have the time to maintain it and hosting it has started to become a burden. A big thank you for having hosted it all these years! The Chisel codebase, Flint, is available under the AGPLv3 license so if your interested now is probably the time to grab it. I’d already done that. :-) -- Martijn Coppoolse ___ fossil-users mailing list fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users
Re: [fossil-users] Question about Source forge Fossil hosting
On Fri, 29 Mar 2013 09:10:48 -0400 jim Schimpf jim.schi...@gmail.com wrote: I have used Chiselapp for hosting some Fossil project but just got a note that he is shutting down May first. So I decided to try the source forge version (http://fossilrepos.sourceforge.net/) . I'd like to point out this is not at all a source forge version. This is just a regular SF project created by someone -- see for yourself [1]. To my knowledge, SF does not provide Fossil hosting. By the way, my opinion on the matters is that ideally someone would convince any of big players (like SF, advogato, bitbucket, berlios, google code etc) to provide Fossil hosting as part of their existing architecture. Otherwise, I reckon, Fossil hosting will remain a niche activity and will still have zero visibility as it has today. 1. http://sf.net/projects/fossilrepos ___ fossil-users mailing list fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users
Re: [fossil-users] Chiselapp.com shutting down
On Fri, Mar 29, 2013 at 7:55 AM, Richard Hipp d...@sqlite.org wrote: On Fri, Mar 29, 2013 at 12:48 AM, Timothy Beyer bey...@fastmail.netwrote: At Thu, 28 Mar 2013 20:52:59 -0400, James Turner wrote: After a couple weeks of debate, I've decided to shut down Chiselapp.com. I think that the Fossil project should aim to have at least one official host to replace chiselapp. Yes, I suppose there really ought to be a hosting service for Fossil someplace So I'm exploring the option of setting up a new one. What if we were to extend Fossil itself so that it was capable of hosting multiple projects after the fashion of chiselapp? Fossil already has the feature of being able to host multiple projects using a single CGI script or single stand-alone server instance. To host multiple projects using a single CGI script, simply create the script like this: #!/usr/bin/fossil directory: /some/path Any files with the *.fossil suffix under the given directory path will be served by this CGI script. There are other attributes that can be set on this script to control what happens for unknown URLs and the sending of content files (other than *.fossil files) found in the directory hierarchy. I'm wondering if this capability can be extended in modest ways to provide a full-blown chiselapp replacement. The idea is that anybody who wants to host something like chiselapp simply has to obtain a low-cost internet host, copy the fossil executable into /usr/bin, create a single CGI script that is less than 10 lines long, and they are up and running. I'm still a little fuzzy on the details of how this would all work, though. Feature suggestions from readers and chiselapp users are appreciated. -- D. Richard Hipp d...@sqlite.org ___ fossil-users mailing list fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users
Re: [fossil-users] Chiselapp.com shutting down
One thing that would be really nice IMHO would be to provide a mechanism to derive a repo from an existing one and have that connection clear and visible on the site. This would have to be optional. Having support for this inside a single fossil would be ideal from my perspective but I understand that is not a popular point of view. Just my $0.02. On Fri, Mar 29, 2013 at 4:55 AM, Richard Hipp d...@sqlite.org wrote: On Fri, Mar 29, 2013 at 12:48 AM, Timothy Beyer bey...@fastmail.netwrote: At Thu, 28 Mar 2013 20:52:59 -0400, James Turner wrote: After a couple weeks of debate, I've decided to shut down Chiselapp.com. I think that the Fossil project should aim to have at least one official host to replace chiselapp. Yes, I suppose there really ought to be a hosting service for Fossil someplace So I'm exploring the option of setting up a new one. The first decision is (1) whether to use James' Flint code base or (2) write my own. Those who know me recognize that I would tend toward (2). (Were it not for this tendency, Fossil and SQLite might not exist, after all.) Suppose I did write my own hosting system. What is is required for that. (James, you have the most experience with this question, so your input is especially encouraged!) (1) Some means for people to create accounts (2) Some means for people to upload Fossil repositories to hosted (3) Per-account bandwidth tracking? (4) Require advertising (example http://system.data.sqlite.org/) for unpaid accounts? (5) Require unpaid accounts to be open-source? (6) Some mechanism to accept payment for private or add-free accounts? (7) Procedures to deal with DMCA takedown requests? What else is needed? James, what are your bandwidth, cpu, and disk space requirements? (You can send me that via private email if you prefer.) -- D. Richard Hipp d...@sqlite.org ___ fossil-users mailing list fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users ___ fossil-users mailing list fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users
Re: [fossil-users] Chiselapp.com shutting down
On Mar 29, 2013, at 15:34 , Richard Hipp wrote: Yes, I suppose there really ought to be a hosting service for Fossil someplace So I'm exploring the option of setting up a new one. What if we were to extend Fossil itself so that it was capable of hosting multiple projects after the fashion of chiselapp? This was my way to see the future of Fossil some time ago. See the self-register feature, the only one for which my motivation sufficed... I pretty much loved to think of Fossil as Github in a box. But it always was not enough Github in it to be sufficient. I agree that user and repository management is important. As are some quality of life things, like default ticket configuration and markdown support. But what Fossil really lacks for the open source world is the fork/pull request workflow. Without it it will rest confined to the smaller/better organized teams. Thus it will not need a hosting service that much. Just my $0.02. Kind regards, Remigiusz Modrzejewski ___ fossil-users mailing list fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users
[fossil-users] Why do we need a fossil hosting service?
Just wondering why we need a dedicated fossil hosting service. I have managed for years without. For example: Copy fossil repository to dropbox folder; make folder publicly available, or privately share it. Done! Am I missing something? James ___ fossil-users mailing list fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users
Re: [fossil-users] Why do we need a fossil hosting service?
On 03/29/2013 09:29 AM, James Bremner wrote: Just wondering why we need a dedicated fossil hosting service. I have managed for years without. For example: Copy fossil repository to dropbox folder; make folder publicly available, or privately share it. Done! Am I missing something? Hmm...could I clone a repository directly from your Dropbox-hosted one? Or push changes back to it? James ___ fossil-users mailing list fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users ___ fossil-users mailing list fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users
Re: [fossil-users] Why do we need a fossil hosting service?
On Fri, Mar 29, 2013 at 12:29 PM, James Bremner ja...@ravenspoint.comwrote: Copy fossil repository to dropbox folder; make folder publicly available, or privately share it. Done! Huh. Very clever! But surely this technique should at least be documented, right? -- D. Richard Hipp d...@sqlite.org ___ fossil-users mailing list fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users
Re: [fossil-users] Chiselapp.com shutting down
On Fri, Mar 29, 2013 at 02:29:54PM +0100, Martijn Coppoolse wrote: Op 29-3-2013 1:52, James Turner schreef: After a couple weeks of debate, I've decided to shut down Chiselapp.com. As the message on the homepage states, new account and repository creation has been disabled. Access to the website and repositories will remain open until May 1st 2013. Sad to see it go, I really liked its simplicity (both in usage and looks). If someone wanted to carry on the initiative, could you tell us approximately what the load would be, both in terms of bandwidth and storage space? A big thanks for everyone who's used the service, sadly I just don't have the time to maintain it and hosting it has started to become a burden. A big thank you for having hosted it all these years! The Chisel codebase, Flint, is available under the AGPLv3 license so if your interested now is probably the time to grab it. I’d already done that. :-) -- Martijn Coppoolse ___ fossil-users mailing list fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users Martijn, I don't really have numbers for bandwidth usage, I host it at my home on a business internet connection so I don't keep track since it's unlimited. However, space wise Chisel has about 11.4G worth of repositories. It's a fairly small operation I just don't have the time or frankly the interest in running it anymore. -- James Turner ___ fossil-users mailing list fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users
Re: [fossil-users] Chiselapp.com shutting down
James Turner james@... writes: [message clipped] The Chisel codebase, Flint, is available under the AGPLv3 license so if your interested now is probably the time to grab it. James, would you consider changing the license to something more permissive, perhaps BSD-style, or at least the GPL? I understand the intent behind the AGPL, but I think the project is more likely to survive in the community with a less- restrictive license. Thanks for hosting the service for all this time! ___ fossil-users mailing list fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users
Re: [fossil-users] Why do we need a fossil hosting service?
A snag with using dropbox, or similar, as a replacement for a dedicated fossil server has occurred to me. When a person interacts with the repo, fossil will update the local copy of the repo and then dropbox will synchronize all the different local copies. On a busy repo where there might be simultaneous activity, this cannot be expected to work correctly! A similar scenario applies to changes made through the web interface. My own repos are not busy - at maximum a dozen changes per day, most done by me – so the chance of a collision causing problems are small. But a busy repo is going to have trouble. So, for a single user using the 'fossil server' for backup and to enable work from different machines, the 'dropbox fossil server' works nicely. For a repo that is shared, a dedicated fossil server is needed. James ___ fossil-users mailing list fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users
Re: [fossil-users] Why do we need a fossil hosting service?
On Fri, Mar 29, 2013 at 5:33 PM, Steve Havelka yo...@q7.com wrote: Hmm...could I clone a repository directly from your Dropbox-hosted one? Or push changes back to it? This works to some degree (i've done it before) but breaks down if one or more of the clients involved is offline for any significant amount of time. Then during syncing dropbox will note that the files do not match and cannot be automatically merged, and you'll end up with two copies of the repo db, one with a name like myrepo (so-and-so's conflicted copy).fsl. -- - stephan beal http://wanderinghorse.net/home/stephan/ http://gplus.to/sgbeal ___ fossil-users mailing list fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users
Re: [fossil-users] Why do we need a fossil hosting service?
for what it's worth as compared to github you are missing: Ability to browse and discover projects based on searches, tags and developer. Ability for loosely coupled collaboration (i.e. fork). Community and the momentum that can come with it. Project life beyond the initial developer. On Fri, Mar 29, 2013 at 9:29 AM, James Bremner ja...@ravenspoint.comwrote: Just wondering why we need a dedicated fossil hosting service. I have managed for years without. For example: Copy fossil repository to dropbox folder; make folder publicly available, or privately share it. Done! Am I missing something? James __**_ fossil-users mailing list fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.**org fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org http://lists.fossil-scm.org:**8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/**fossil-usershttp://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users ___ fossil-users mailing list fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users
Re: [fossil-users] Chiselapp.com shutting down
On Fri, Mar 29, 2013 at 05:09:46PM +, John Coulter wrote: James Turner james@... writes: [message clipped] The Chisel codebase, Flint, is available under the AGPLv3 license so if your interested now is probably the time to grab it. James, would you consider changing the license to something more permissive, perhaps BSD-style, or at least the GPL? I understand the intent behind the AGPL, but I think the project is more likely to survive in the community with a less- restrictive license. Thanks for hosting the service for all this time! Done. Flint is now licensed under the more permissive ISC license [0]. [0] http://opensource.org/licenses/ISC -- James Turner ___ fossil-users mailing list fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users
Re: [fossil-users] Question about Source forge Fossil hosting
Konstantin Khomoutov wrote: On Fri, 29 Mar 2013 09:10:48 -0400 I'd like to point out this is not at all a source forge version. This is just a regular SF project created by someone -- see for yourself [1]. To my knowledge, SF does not provide Fossil hosting. SF doesn't provide it, but it's easy to do yourself. Steps: 0. Create a SF account, SF project, and set up your ssh keys so that you can log into their shell service. 1. connect to the SF shell service, and navigate to the project web directory for your project: $ ssh -t myproject,myu...@shell.sourceforge.net create Welcome to sourceforge! -bash-3.2$ cd /home/project-web/myproject 2. Obtain a fossil binary. Unfortunately the ones from the download page on fossil-scm.org are built against a newer version of linux than SF's servers and so will not run there, but you can build a compatible older version yourself. (Or some kind person could put of a fossil binary that will run on a 2.6.18 kernel). Put that fossil binary in the project-web directory. [get fossil somehow] -bash-3.2$ ./fossil Usage: ./fossil COMMAND ... or: ./fossil help -- for a list of common commands or: ./fossil help COMMMAND -- for help with the named command -bash-3.2$ 3. create a folder for your fossil repository that is writable by the web server. -bash-3.2$ mkdir repo -bash-3.2$ ls -ld repo drwxrwx--x 2 myuser apache 4096 Mar 29 16:45 repo -bash-3.2$ 4. put your fossil repo in that directory, or create a new repo -bash-3.2$ ../fossil new myproject.fsl project-id: 1e70588abb440a6ff839f6897d5397107df3a044 server-id: 1962ad62f3e973014df28323a1c9f59c8b7f6f50 admin-user: myuser (initial password is 08324d) -bash-3.2$ 5. make the repository writable by the web server -bash-3.2$ chmod g+w myproject.fsl -bash-3.2$ 6. create the cgi frontend -bash-3.2$ cd /home/project-web/myproject/cgi-bin -bash-3.2$ cat myproject.fsl #!/usr/bin/env /home/project-web/myproject/fossil repository: /home/project-web/myproject/repo/myproject.fsl ^D bash-3.2$ chmod +x myproject.fsl 7. connect to your new fossil repository http://myproject.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/myproject.fsl 8. do normal fossil setup tasks - set project name, design, etc. SF has a policy that you should include the sourceforge logo on your project-web hosted pages, so go to your sourceforge project page, select project admin analytics, and go to the Displaying the sourceforge.net logo page; pick the appropriate logo and change the fossil logo in the header setup admin page from div class=logo img src=$baseurl/logo alt=logo brnobr$project_name/nobr /div to div class=logo a href=http://sourceforge.net/projects/myptoject;img src=http://sflogo.sourceforge.net/sflogo.php?group_id=12345678amp;type=16; width=150 height=40 border=0 //a brnobr$project_name/nobr /div (for whichever logo you happened to choose) 9. Set up your project web homepage to point to your fossil repo. -bash-3.2$ cd /home/project-web/myproject/htdocs -bash-3.2$ cat index.php ?php header(Location: http://myproject.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/myproject.fsl/home;) ? ^D -bash-3.2$ 10. clone your fossil repository from elsewhere, make changes, etc. $ fossil clone http://myproject.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/myproject.fsl myproject.fsl By the way, my opinion on the matters is that ideally someone would convince any of big players (like SF, advogato, bitbucket, berlios, google code etc) to provide Fossil hosting as part of their existing architecture. Otherwise, I reckon, Fossil hosting will remain a niche activity and will still have zero visibility as it has today. You could try upvoting this ideatorrent post: https://sourceforge.net/apps/ideatorrent/sourceforge/ideatorrent/idea/603/ But I'm they don't use it any more, and feature requests are just done through their forge project: https://sourceforge.net/p/forge/feature-requests/ -J ___ fossil-users mailing list fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users
Re: [fossil-users] Why do we need a fossil hosting service?
Matt Welland decía, en el mensaje Re: [fossil-users] Why do we need a fossil hosting service? del Viernes, 29 de Marzo de 2013 14:38:25: Ability for loosely coupled collaboration (i.e. fork). Not exactly what Fossil was designed for, I believe... Community and the momentum that can come with it. And as far as Hg/Git lovers keep telling everybody how awful Fossil is because is different from their pet tools, it will never happen... ... which I don't think is entirely unintended. Project life beyond the initial developer. Consequence of the one before. -- o-= Marcelo =-o ___ fossil-users mailing list fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users
Re: [fossil-users] Why do we need a fossil hosting service?
On 03/29/2013 05:56 PM, Richie Adler wrote: Matt Welland decía, en el mensaje Re: [fossil-users] Why do we need a fossil hosting service? del Viernes, 29 de Marzo de 2013 14:38:25: Ability for loosely coupled collaboration (i.e. fork). Not exactly what Fossil was designed for, I believe... Community and the momentum that can come with it. And as far as Hg/Git lovers keep telling everybody how awful Fossil is because is different from their pet tools, it will never happen... ... which I don't think is entirely unintended. Just to clarify... You're saying that Fossil is intended to be used by few people, or that Fossil is intended not to have a user community? Project life beyond the initial developer. Consequence of the one before. ___ fossil-users mailing list fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users
