Re: [fossil-users] cannot connect to host

[Doug Currie]

On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 5:48 PM, Warren Young  wrote:

> > Since OpenSSL 0.9.8 is the default on OS X 10.10,
>
> ...
>
> Meanwhile, “brew install libressl”.


Yes. For the record, "sudo port install libressl" works, too, if you
already have MacPorts.

e
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Re: [fossil-users] cannot connect to host

[Warren Young]

On Aug 31, 2015, at 3:27 PM, Doug Currie  wrote:
> 
> On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 5:07 PM, Warren Young  wrote:
> My guess: The SSL implementation running on ChiselApp has been tightened 
> down, to make it refuse old broken SSL features that used to work in the 
> past, as a result of all the security problems found in OpenSSL over the past 
> year or so:
> 
> That's probably it...
> 
> test e$ fossil_libressl clone 
> https://chiselapp.com/user/e/repository/ldecNumber ldecNumber.fossil
> Round-trips: 2   Artifacts sent: 0  received: 339
> Clone done, sent: 523  received: 1281643  ip: 216.250.117.7

Confirmed here, too: on removing openssl-devel from a CentOS 5 box and 
installing LibreSSL, cloning now works.

> Since OpenSSL 0.9.8 is the default on OS X 10.10,

That’s weird.  Apple usually only hangs on to really old software like that to 
avoid switching to GPL3’d versions.  OpenSSL is BSDish.

Google claims El Capitan has a bunch of SSL-related improvements, but I haven’t 
NDA’d myself by installing the beta, so I can’t check and couldn’t tell you 
what I found if I did. :)

Meanwhile, “brew install libressl”.
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Re: [fossil-users] cannot connect to host

[Doug Currie]

On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 5:07 PM, Warren Young  wrote:

> My guess: The SSL implementation running on ChiselApp has been tightened
> down, to make it refuse old broken SSL features that used to work in the
> past, as a result of all the security problems found in OpenSSL over the
> past year or so:
> 
>

That's probably it...

test e$ fossil_libressl clone
https://chiselapp.com/user/e/repository/ldecNumber ldecNumber.fossil
Round-trips: 2   Artifacts sent: 0  received: 339
Clone done, sent: 523  received: 1281643  ip: 216.250.117.7
Rebuilding repository meta-data...
  100.0% complete...
Extra delta compression...
Vacuuming the database...
project-id: 2f6fa92a60ff07446846433609b70d028bf121e7
server-id:  d5a48b19b1fc82e70df48bf3044c354b915f1f23
admin-user: e (password is "77d3fb")

test e$ fossil_libressl version -v
This is fossil version 1.33 [7febc31883] 2015-08-29 15:24:16 UTC
Compiled on Aug 31 2015 17:18:38 using gcc-4.2.1 Compatible Apple LLVM
6.1.0 (clang-602.0.53) (64-bit)
SQLite 3.8.11.1 2015-07-29 20:00:57 cf538e2783
Schema version 2015-01-24
zlib 1.2.5, loaded 1.2.5
SSL (LibreSSL 2.2.2)
UNICODE_COMMAND_LINE
DYNAMIC_BUILD

I'm up and running again. Thank you Warren and jungle Boogie.

Since OpenSSL 0.9.8 is the default on OS X 10.10, this issue will surely
affect others.

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Re: [fossil-users] cannot connect to host

[Warren Young]

On Aug 31, 2015, at 2:56 PM, Warren Young  wrote:
> 
> On Aug 31, 2015, at 2:36 PM, jungle Boogie  wrote:
>> 
>> SSL (OpenSSL 1.0.1p-freebsd 9 Jul 2015)
> 
> OpenSSL 1.0.1 is still considerably advanced beyond 0.9.8.
> 
> According to this analysis, they broke over a quarter of the ABIs when moving 
> from 0.9.8 to 1.0.0, and another 5% from 1.0.0 to 1.0.1:
> 
>  http://upstream.rosalinux.ru/versions/openssl.html

Actually, I may have confirmed that here.  CentOS 5 ships 0.9.8e plus Red Hat 
security patches, and it errors out:

   CONNECTED(0003)
   12195:error:140790E5:SSL routines:SSL23_WRITE:ssl handshake 
failure:s23_lib.c:188:

CentOS 7 with OpenSSL 1.0.1 succeeds.

This is further confirmed with Fossil, which clones the repo just fine on EL7, 
but fails on EL5.

My guess: The SSL implementation running on ChiselApp has been tightened down, 
to make it refuse old broken SSL features that used to work in the past, as a 
result of all the security problems found in OpenSSL over the past year or so:

   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenSSL#Notable_vulnerabilities
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Re: [fossil-users] cannot connect to host

[Warren Young]

On Aug 31, 2015, at 2:36 PM, jungle Boogie  wrote:
> 
> SSL (OpenSSL 1.0.1p-freebsd 9 Jul 2015)

OpenSSL 1.0.1 is still considerably advanced beyond 0.9.8.

According to this analysis, they broke over a quarter of the ABIs when moving 
from 0.9.8 to 1.0.0, and another 5% from 1.0.0 to 1.0.1:

  http://upstream.rosalinux.ru/versions/openssl.html

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Re: [fossil-users] cannot connect to host

[Doug Currie]

On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 4:31 PM, jungle Boogie 
wrote:

>
> Are you using the Docker image or is there anything special about your
> environment?
>

I don't think so (since I don't know what Docker image is).


>
> Can you connect with openssl:
> openssl s_client -connect chiselapp.com:443 -CAfile /etc/ssl/cert.pem


Yes...

test e$ openssl s_client -connect chiselapp.com:443 -CAfile
/etc/ssl/cert.pem

140735231247184:error:02001002:system library:fopen:No such file or
directory:bss_file.c:169:fopen('/etc/ssl/cert.pem','r')

140735231247184:error:2006D080:BIO routines:BIO_new_file:no such
file:bss_file.c:172:

140735231247184:error:0B084002:x509 certificate
routines:X509_load_cert_crl_file:system lib:by_file.c:274:

CONNECTED(0003)

depth=2 C = US, O = GeoTrust Inc., OU = (c) 2008 GeoTrust Inc. - For
authorized use only, CN = GeoTrust Primary Certification Authority - G3

verify error:num=19:self signed certificate in certificate chain
verify return:0

etc.

e



>
> >
> > e
> >
> >
>
>
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Re: [fossil-users] cannot connect to host

[jungle Boogie]

On 31 August 2015 at 13:32, Warren Young  wrote:
> On Aug 31, 2015, at 1:58 PM, Doug Currie  wrote:
>>
>> SSL (LibreSSL 2.2.2)
>> ...
>> Seems to work fine for me!
>
> [snip]
>
>> I'm still stuck:
>> ...
>> SSL (OpenSSL 0.9.8zg 14 July 2015)
>
> Is the difference in the SSL libraries?
>
> Although you’re using the latest OpenSSL 0.9.8, that branch of OpenSSL is the 
> on-purpose-really-old branch, intended only for compatibility with programs 
> that haven’t been ported to a newer version and can’t be recompiled.  That 
> isn’t the situation with Fossil.
>
> Meanwhile, LibreSSL is the new hotness, with most of the OpenSSL cruft 
> removed.
>
> So: What happens if you build against LibreSSL instead?
>

I thought about that, too, but that's not a factor:

% fossil version -v
This is fossil version 1.33 [9c65b5432e] 2015-05-23 11:11:31 UTC
Compiled on Aug 26 2015 01:05:45 using gcc-4.2.1 Compatible FreeBSD
Clang 3.6.1 (tags/RELEASE_361/final 237755) (64-bit)
SQLite 3.8.10.2 2015-05-20 18:17:19 2ef4f3a5b1
Schema version 2015-01-24
zlib 1.2.8, loaded 1.2.8
SSL (OpenSSL 1.0.1p-freebsd 9 Jul 2015)
JSON (API 20120713)
UNICODE_COMMAND_LINE

% fossil clone https://chiselapp.com/user/e/repository/ldecNumber doug.fossil
Round-trips: 2   Artifacts sent: 0  received: 339
Clone done, sent: 523  received: 1281643  ip: 216.250.117.7
Rebuilding repository meta-data...
  100.0% complete...
Extra delta compression...
Vacuuming the database...
project-id: 2f6fa92a60ff07446846433609b70d028bf121e7
server-id:  7448da50651e2e84bc01402c0938df1d7ebe8f00
admin-user: sean (password is "965f77")


And notice my fossil is from the release because I just installed that
from freebsd ports/packages.

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Re: [fossil-users] cannot connect to host

[jungle Boogie]

On 31 August 2015 at 12:58, Doug Currie  wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 3:32 PM, jungle Boogie 
> wrote:
>>
>> % fossil version -v
>> This is fossil version 1.33 [7febc31883] 2015-08-29 15:24:16 UTC
>> Compiled on Aug 29 2015 16:15:07 using gcc-4.2.1 Compatible FreeBSD
>> Clang 3.4.1 (tags/RELEASE_34/dot1-final 208032) (64-bit)
>> SQLite 3.8.11.1 2015-07-29 20:00:57 cf538e2783
>> Schema version 2015-01-24
>> zlib 1.2.8, loaded 1.2.8
>> SSL (LibreSSL 2.2.2)
>> TH1_DOCS
>> TCL (Tcl 8.6.4, loaded TH_OK: 8.6.4)
>> JSON (API 20120713)
>> UNICODE_COMMAND_LINE
>> DYNAMIC_BUILD
>>
>>
>> Seems to work fine for me!
>
>
> Well, I guess that's good, thank you for trying it...
>
> but I'm still stuck:
>
> test e$ fossil clone https://chiselapp.com/user/e/repository/ldecNumber
> ldecNumber.fossil
> SSL: cannot connect to host chiselapp.com:443 ()
> Clone done, sent: 0  received: 0  ip:
> server returned an error - clone aborted
>
> test e$ fossil version -v
> This is fossil version 1.33 [7febc31883] 2015-08-29 15:24:16 UTC
> Compiled on Aug 31 2015 15:55:30 using gcc-4.2.1 Compatible Apple LLVM 6.1.0
> (clang-602.0.53) (64-bit)
> SQLite 3.8.11.1 2015-07-29 20:00:57 cf538e2783
> Schema version 2015-01-24
> zlib 1.2.5, loaded 1.2.5
> SSL (OpenSSL 0.9.8zg 14 July 2015)
> UNICODE_COMMAND_LINE
> DYNAMIC_BUILD
>

Are you using the Docker image or is there anything special about your
environment?

Can you connect with openssl:
openssl s_client -connect chiselapp.com:443 -CAfile /etc/ssl/cert.pem


>
> e
>
>


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Re: [fossil-users] cannot connect to host

[Warren Young]

On Aug 31, 2015, at 1:58 PM, Doug Currie  wrote:
> 
> SSL (LibreSSL 2.2.2)
> ...
> Seems to work fine for me!

[snip]

> I'm still stuck:
> ...
> SSL (OpenSSL 0.9.8zg 14 July 2015)

Is the difference in the SSL libraries?

Although you’re using the latest OpenSSL 0.9.8, that branch of OpenSSL is the 
on-purpose-really-old branch, intended only for compatibility with programs 
that haven’t been ported to a newer version and can’t be recompiled.  That 
isn’t the situation with Fossil.

Meanwhile, LibreSSL is the new hotness, with most of the OpenSSL cruft removed.

So: What happens if you build against LibreSSL instead?

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Re: [fossil-users] cannot connect to host

[Doug Currie]

On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 3:32 PM, jungle Boogie 
wrote:

> % fossil version -v
> This is fossil version 1.33 [7febc31883] 2015-08-29 15:24:16 UTC
> Compiled on Aug 29 2015 16:15:07 using gcc-4.2.1 Compatible FreeBSD
> Clang 3.4.1 (tags/RELEASE_34/dot1-final 208032) (64-bit)
> SQLite 3.8.11.1 2015-07-29 20:00:57 cf538e2783
> Schema version 2015-01-24
> zlib 1.2.8, loaded 1.2.8
> SSL (LibreSSL 2.2.2)
> TH1_DOCS
> TCL (Tcl 8.6.4, loaded TH_OK: 8.6.4)
> JSON (API 20120713)
> UNICODE_COMMAND_LINE
> DYNAMIC_BUILD
>
>
> Seems to work fine for me!


Well, I guess that's good, thank you for trying it...

but I'm still stuck:

test e$ fossil clone https://chiselapp.com/user/e/repository/ldecNumber
ldecNumber.fossil
SSL: cannot connect to host chiselapp.com:443 ()
Clone done, sent: 0  received: 0  ip:
server returned an error - clone aborted

test e$ fossil version -v
This is fossil version 1.33 [7febc31883] 2015-08-29 15:24:16 UTC
Compiled on Aug 31 2015 15:55:30 using gcc-4.2.1 Compatible Apple LLVM
6.1.0 (clang-602.0.53) (64-bit)
SQLite 3.8.11.1 2015-07-29 20:00:57 cf538e2783
Schema version 2015-01-24
zlib 1.2.5, loaded 1.2.5
SSL (OpenSSL 0.9.8zg 14 July 2015)
UNICODE_COMMAND_LINE
DYNAMIC_BUILD


e
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Re: [fossil-users] cannot connect to host

[jungle Boogie]

Hi Doug,
On 31 August 2015 at 12:18, Doug Currie  wrote:
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 2:21 PM, jungle Boogie 
> wrote:
>>
>> On 31 August 2015 at 10:51, Doug Currie  wrote:
>> > test e$ fossil clone https://chiselapp.com/user/e/repository/ldecNumber
>> > ldecNumber.fossil
>> > SSL: cannot connect to host chiselapp.com:443 ()
>> > Clone done, sent: 0  received: 0  ip:
>> > server returned an error - clone aborted
>>
>>
>> % fossil clone https://chiselapp.com/user/e/repository/ldecNumber
>> ldecNumber.fossil
>> Round-trips: 2   Artifacts sent: 0  received: 0
>> Error: not authorized to clone
>> Round-trips: 2   Artifacts sent: 0  received: 0
>> Clone done, sent: 533  received: 708  ip: 216.250.117.7
>> server returned an error - clone aborted
>>
>>
>> Give a repo we can clone and I'll test it.
>>
>
>
> Thanks; I just turned on clone permission for "nobody" in that repo.
>

% fossil clone https://chiselapp.com/user/e/repository/ldecNumber doug.fossil
Round-trips: 2   Artifacts sent: 0  received: 339
Clone done, sent: 523  received: 1281643  ip: 216.250.117.7
Rebuilding repository meta-data...
  100.0% complete...
Extra delta compression...
Vacuuming the database...
project-id: 2f6fa92a60ff07446846433609b70d028bf121e7
server-id:  0fe6bf8c7a3740badc837690c593c9d6e618d65c
admin-user: sean (password is "30fae7")

% fossil version -v
This is fossil version 1.33 [7febc31883] 2015-08-29 15:24:16 UTC
Compiled on Aug 29 2015 16:15:07 using gcc-4.2.1 Compatible FreeBSD
Clang 3.4.1 (tags/RELEASE_34/dot1-final 208032) (64-bit)
SQLite 3.8.11.1 2015-07-29 20:00:57 cf538e2783
Schema version 2015-01-24
zlib 1.2.8, loaded 1.2.8
SSL (LibreSSL 2.2.2)
TH1_DOCS
TCL (Tcl 8.6.4, loaded TH_OK: 8.6.4)
JSON (API 20120713)
UNICODE_COMMAND_LINE
DYNAMIC_BUILD


Seems to work fine for me!



> e
>



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Re: [fossil-users] Modifying button bar

[Ron W]

On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 1:51 PM, Warren Young  wrote:

> On Aug 31, 2015, at 11:46 AM, Scott Doctor  wrote:
> >
> > how can I customize the buttons on the button bar at the top of the page
>
> Admin -> Skins -> Header.


Or just: Admin -> Header

(At least with the out-of-the-box Fossil, the 2 are equivalent.)
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Re: [fossil-users] cannot connect to host

[Doug Currie]

On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 2:21 PM, jungle Boogie 
wrote:

> On 31 August 2015 at 10:51, Doug Currie  wrote:
> > test e$ fossil clone https://chiselapp.com/user/e/repository/ldecNumber
> > ldecNumber.fossil
> > SSL: cannot connect to host chiselapp.com:443 ()
> > Clone done, sent: 0  received: 0  ip:
> > server returned an error - clone aborted
>
>
> % fossil clone https://chiselapp.com/user/e/repository/ldecNumber
> ldecNumber.fossil
> Round-trips: 2   Artifacts sent: 0  received: 0
> Error: not authorized to clone
> Round-trips: 2   Artifacts sent: 0  received: 0
> Clone done, sent: 533  received: 708  ip: 216.250.117.7
> server returned an error - clone aborted
>
>
> Give a repo we can clone and I'll test it.
>
>

Thanks; I just turned on clone permission for "nobody" in that repo.

e




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Re: [fossil-users] Markdown checkin comments and tickets (was: Multi line formatting)

[Ron W]

On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 1:56 PM, Warren Young  wrote:

> On Aug 31, 2015, at 11:46 AM, Warren Young  wrote:
> > I think we can agree that using hooks to enforce, say, code formatting
> rules is a bad idea.
>
> I did a bit of Googling, and this blog article describes what seems to be
> a well thought out system for Git:
>
>
> http://causes.github.io/blog/2013/05/30/overcommit-the-opinionated-git-hook-manager/
>
> The key is doing the checks locally, rather than on the central repo
> server, and offering a way to bypass the checks at need.


We put our source code checks into the build process. Yes, that means they
could be easily by-passed, but if some one did that, other team members
would see the failures.
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Re: [fossil-users] cannot connect to host

[jungle Boogie]

On 31 August 2015 at 10:51, Doug Currie  wrote:
> test e$ fossil clone https://chiselapp.com/user/e/repository/ldecNumber
> ldecNumber.fossil
> SSL: cannot connect to host chiselapp.com:443 ()
> Clone done, sent: 0  received: 0  ip:
> server returned an error - clone aborted


% fossil clone https://chiselapp.com/user/e/repository/ldecNumber
ldecNumber.fossil
Round-trips: 2   Artifacts sent: 0  received: 0
Error: not authorized to clone
Round-trips: 2   Artifacts sent: 0  received: 0
Clone done, sent: 533  received: 708  ip: 216.250.117.7
server returned an error - clone aborted


Give a repo we can clone and I'll test it.

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Re: [fossil-users] Modifying button bar

[Richard Hipp]

On 8/31/15, Scott Doctor  wrote:
>
> Hmm. I guess that will work. but would be nice to have a simple GUI-ish type
> editor where I just have a list in order of appearance that is the name of
> the button and its link, instead of basically hacking code, thereby
> isolating language syntax from the user.
>

The default headers use condition code to test whether or not various
menu items are displayed and to change their names based on the users
permissions and login status. That would be difficult to do with a
GUI.  So our options are to reduce the capabilities in order to
accommodate a GUI, or keep the current setup.

-- 
D. Richard Hipp
d...@sqlite.org
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Re: [fossil-users] Modifying button bar

[Scott Doctor]

  
  

Hmm. I guess that will work. but would be
  nice to have a simple GUI-ish type editor where I just have a list
  in order of appearance that is the name of the button and its
  link, instead of basically hacking code, thereby isolating
  language syntax from the user. 
  
  I see it working as such. User wants to add (or delete) a button.
  Clicks ADD BUTTON button. Prompt for name of button, prompt for
  link or select from tree (I think tree is better). the appropriate
  code is then inserted into the HTML where the user never sees the
  underlying code.
  


Scott Doctor
sc...@scottdoctor.com
--

On 8/31/2015 10:51 AM, Warren Young
  wrote:


  On Aug 31, 2015, at 11:46 AM, Scott Doctor  wrote:

  

how can I customize the buttons on the button bar at the top of the page

  
  
Admin -> Skins -> Header.

That gets you a text editor containing the current HTML + TH1 code combination that generates the header portion of each page Fossil serves.  The footer and CSS files also play into it.

If you want to dig deeper into it, the stock skins are in the skins subidrectory of the Fossil code repo.

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Re: [fossil-users] Markdown checkin comments and tickets (was: Multi line formatting)

[Warren Young]

On Aug 31, 2015, at 11:46 AM, Warren Young  wrote:
> 
> On Aug 31, 2015, at 11:39 AM, Stephan Beal  wrote:
>> 
>> Hooks are not just about emails, but about policy decisions. "Does this file 
>> conform to XYZ." A failure at that level is unrecoverable without changing 
>> the policy.
> 
> I think we can agree that using hooks to enforce, say, code formatting rules 
> is a bad idea.

I did a bit of Googling, and this blog article describes what seems to be a 
well thought out system for Git:

   
http://causes.github.io/blog/2013/05/30/overcommit-the-opinionated-git-hook-manager/

The key is doing the checks locally, rather than on the central repo server, 
and offering a way to bypass the checks at need.
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Re: [fossil-users] cannot connect to host

[Doug Currie]

On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 12:58 PM, jungle Boogie 
wrote:

> I can clone, over TLS, one of the many public repos, but I don't have
> access to any of them to sync.
>
>
So, I just tried cloning using https to no avail:

test e$ fossil clone https://chiselapp.com/user/e/repository/ldecNumber
ldecNumber.fossil
SSL: cannot connect to host chiselapp.com:443 ()
Clone done, sent: 0  received: 0  ip:
server returned an error - clone aborted

but it works with http:

test e$ fossil clone http://chiselapp.com/user/e/repository/ldecNumber
ldecNumber.fossil
Round-trips: 2   Artifacts sent: 0  received: 339
Clone done, sent: 523  received: 1281643  ip: 216.250.117.7

 e
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Re: [fossil-users] Modifying button bar

[Warren Young]

On Aug 31, 2015, at 11:46 AM, Scott Doctor  wrote:
> 
> how can I customize the buttons on the button bar at the top of the page

Admin -> Skins -> Header.

That gets you a text editor containing the current HTML + TH1 code combination 
that generates the header portion of each page Fossil serves.  The footer and 
CSS files also play into it.

If you want to dig deeper into it, the stock skins are in the skins 
subidrectory of the Fossil code repo.

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[fossil-users] Modifying button bar

[Scott Doctor]

I am new to using Fossil, so I created a dummy project to play 
with the various features. For the most part I think Fossil is a 
huge improvement over the alternatives. I can see using this as 
my support website framework along with handling development 
issues., which leads me to the following question.


How do I change the button bar? While the 
home-timeline-files- entries are fine for the base 
operations, what I want is an easy way to customize that bar. 
Mainly for the first page or custom wiki pages. I can hack the 
pages code, but that is not a preferred way to do that. So 
simply, how can I customize the buttons on the button bar at the 
top of the page to use my combination of button, or to 
add/remove a button?



Scott Doctor
sc...@scottdoctor.com
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Re: [fossil-users] Markdown checkin comments and tickets (was: Multi line formatting)

[Warren Young]

On Aug 31, 2015, at 11:39 AM, Stephan Beal  wrote:
> 
> Hooks are not just about emails, but about policy decisions. "Does this file 
> conform to XYZ." A failure at that level is unrecoverable without changing 
> the policy.

I think we can agree that using hooks to enforce, say, code formatting rules is 
a bad idea.

Now, maybe a hook could give a *warning* that you’ve just checked a C++ file in 
with tabs instead of spaces, but it shouldn’t refuse outright, because of the 
very risk you refer to.

I’m going to guess that if you set hooks on a repo sitting behind “fossil 
server”, that those hook scripts don’t get sent down to a clone, or may not run 
of they do, so you can’t count on them being run locally before we get to the 
push stage?
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Re: [fossil-users] Markdown checkin comments and tickets (was: Multi line formatting)

[Stephan Beal]

On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 7:27 PM, Warren Young  wrote:

> > That becomes fossil's problem
>
> No, it’s the hook-writer’s problem.
>
> The hook-writer solves that in the normal way: log the problem so that a
> human can figure out how to solve it, then retry the commit.
>

Hooks are not just about emails, but about policy decisions. "Does this
file conform to XYZ." A failure at that level is unrecoverable without
changing the policy.


> > Many commercial/enterprise environments don't allow this. We once, after
> 8 months of development using 'maven' as a build tool, had to port
> everything to ant after discovering that the remote site does not allow
> external internet access (in or out).
>
> How do you imagine such a problem could bite a Fossil user?
>

Now that you mention it... i can't, unless it allows inbound but no
outbound traffic (one bank i worked at has some network segments set up
that way).


> Case 2: They have a perfectly working Fossil setup with hooks, then 8
> months later they move it to a new remote site, and it fails immediately
> because none of the hook scripts will run.  Now they get to choose whether
> to disable hooks or solve the site restriction.


Solve == remove, as the code is already committed and fossil disallows
history changes.


>   If they choose the first option, Fossil goes back to working the same
> way it does everywhere else, which I think we can agree to summarize as,
> “Adequate,” at the least. :)
>

Adequate, but troubling nonetheless.


> Hooks are optional.  They may add site-specific restrictions, but
> bypassing these restrictions does not harm the Fossil DB.
>

Not the db, but the constellation. They leave the "violating" user in a
state which is no longer mergeable with the main repo.


> I imagine some people will try to use hooks to create inviolable
> constraints, but that’s predicated on those hooks actually running, and not
> being bypassable.  That’s purely a local administration problem, not
> something that the Fossil project has to solve.
>

Agreed, but this list is the first place they'll run when such a policy
forks them from their main repo, asking for advice on how to solve it.


-- 
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http://wanderinghorse.net/home/stephan/
http://gplus.to/sgbeal
"Freedom is sloppy. But since tyranny's the only guaranteed byproduct of
those who insist on a perfect world, freedom will have to do." -- Bigby Wolf
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Re: [fossil-users] Markdown checkin comments and tickets (was: Multi line formatting)

[Warren Young]

On Aug 31, 2015, at 10:59 AM, Joe Mistachkin  wrote:
> 
> 
> There are docs on --with-tcl and the commands it provides (see th1.md in the 
> source tree).

Yes, I already saw that, via the web:

   http://fossil-scm.org/index.html/doc/tip/www/th1.md

You have to admit, it’s awfully thin on details.

How exactly do you use this to set a hook, for one thing?

If I want to run an external command, does --with-tcl let me call Tcl’s “exec” 
directly, or do I need to call “tclEval exec”, or something else?

I’m sure I could figure all this out by reading Fossil’s source and 
experimenting, but I think it’s fair to expect the docs to cover such basics.

> Also, with Tcl enabled the hooks work perfectly for sending mail

I think the mere existence of a tutorial article that builds a basic “send 
email on each commit” hook would be enough to solve a lot of people’s problems. 
 Just something to riff off of, you know?
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Re: [fossil-users] Markdown checkin comments and tickets (was: Multi line formatting)

[Warren Young]

On Aug 31, 2015, at 10:46 AM, Stephan Beal  wrote:
> 
> The push fails because a remote hook disallows it. What then?

The same thing that happens when you try to push to a read-only repo, or push 
while the Internet connection is down, or push to a repo you accidentally 
cloned anonymously by forgetting user@ in the URL, or push to a server that’s 
just run out of disk space, or…

Fossil already has to cope with such problems.

> That becomes fossil's problem

No, it’s the hook-writer’s problem.

The hook-writer solves that in the normal way: log the problem so that a human 
can figure out how to solve it, then retry the commit.

This is part of what I was implying when I spoke of a CGI-like hook calling 
protocol.  If you try an HTTP POST to a site you aren’t logged into, it will 
likely give you a 400-series error along with some error text, which tells you 
what happened and gives you a clue how to fix it.  In the same way, an external 
Fossil hook program can return some error code and a string that makes its way 
from the remote host to the local Fossil client.

> Many commercial/enterprise environments don't allow this. We once, after 8 
> months of development using 'maven' as a build tool, had to port everything 
> to ant after discovering that the remote site does not allow external 
> internet access (in or out).

How do you imagine such a problem could bite a Fossil user?

Case 1: They add a hook to the remote server, it fails, so they remove it, and 
Fossil goes back to running.  No 8-month submarine time.

Case 2: They have a perfectly working Fossil setup with hooks, then 8 months 
later they move it to a new remote site, and it fails immediately because none 
of the hook scripts will run.  Now they get to choose whether to disable hooks 
or solve the site restriction.  If they choose the first option, Fossil goes 
back to working the same way it does everywhere else, which I think we can 
agree to summarize as, “Adequate,” at the least. :)

Hooks are optional.  They may add site-specific restrictions, but bypassing 
these restrictions does not harm the Fossil DB.

I imagine some people will try to use hooks to create inviolable constraints, 
but that’s predicated on those hooks actually running, and not being 
bypassable.  That’s purely a local administration problem, not something that 
the Fossil project has to solve.
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Re: [fossil-users] Markdown checkin comments and tickets (was: Multi line formatting)

[Joe Mistachkin]

There are docs on --with-tcl and the commands it provides (see th1.md in the 
source tree).  Also, with Tcl enabled the hooks work perfectly for sending mail 
and I've personally been doing so for several years on a repository of mine.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 31, 2015, at 9:40 AM, Warren Young  wrote:
> 
>> On Aug 30, 2015, at 2:27 AM, Stephan Beal  wrote:
>> 
>>> On Sun, Aug 30, 2015 at 10:15 AM, Baptiste Daroussin 
>>>  wrote:
>>> Number #1 is the inhability to run "external" hooks easily
>> 
>> it's difficult to do portably
> 
> system() is ANSI C.
> 
> There are many external programs you can call that way.  All that’s needed is 
> some kind of hook-calling protocol, a la CGI.
> 
>> it opens up many more potential failure cases
> 
> I don’t see what’s difficult about failing a transaction if a hook is defined 
> and the external program call fails.  All the difficult parts are fobbed off 
> on the person writing the hook script.
> 
>> what happens to a commit if an http connection to an external server, used 
>> by a trigger, cannot be established?
> 
> The commit fails, same as if the process of attempting the commit causes any 
> other error, such as a fork without --allow-fork.
> 
>> Many hosting environments do not allow hosted scripts/apps to establish 
>> outbound connections with external servers
> 
> If you’re on such a host, you don’t get to use hooks.  Switch to a different 
> hosting provider if you need hooks.  There are dozens of bare-bones VPS and 
> cloud hosting providers without this restriction.
> 
> Also, this restriction only affects those who go out of their way to use 
> hooks.  If you don’t define any hooks, Fossil will behave the same as it does 
> today.
> 
>> Fossil does have basic hooks support in the form of TH1/TCL scripts,
> 
> You have to configure Fossil with --with-th1-hooks to enable it.
> 
> Also, as far as I can tell, TH1 doesn’t have the power to implement an SMTP 
> client or call out to an external one anyway.  (i.e. no equivalent of 
> connect(2) or system(3).)
> 
> I was curious how Git handles this, and to a first approximation, it doesn’t. 
>  It includes a 1,700 line Perl script which either calls out to sendmail(1) 
> or uses the Perl Net::SMTP library to do all the heavy lifting.
> 
>https://github.com/git/git/blob/master/git-send-email.perl
> 
> My point above is that even these options aren’t available to TH1.
> 
> I see that Fossil has --with-tcl, which might be able to solve this, but I 
> don’t see any documentation explaining it on the Fossil site.
> 
>> There is no _portable_ external provider API for sending mails.
> 
> Not for C, true, but Tcl can do it: http://wiki.tcl.tk/1256
> 
> For platforms where linking to Tcl isn’t suitable, TH1 could add the exec and 
> open commands:
> 
>   https://www.tcl.tk/man/tcl8.5/tutorial/Tcl26.html
> 
> Then Fossil proper wouldn’t have to worry about such things as how to send 
> email.
> 
>> My point was not so much about the multiline support, but the lack (in my 
>> experience) of need for book-length commit messages. Without those, the lack 
>> of multi-line support is moot.
> 
> Straw man.  Adding a small bit of markup to a commit message is not writing 
> books.  And it’s a good thing, since Markdown is not the right formatting 
> system for book production anyway.
> 
> Most of the code needed to do this is in Fossil already.
> ___
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> 
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Re: [fossil-users] cannot connect to host

[jungle Boogie]

Hi Doug,
On 31 August 2015 at 09:08, Doug Currie  wrote:
> Is anyone else having trouble syncing with Chiselapp lately? None of my
> Chiselapp local repos can sync, whereas my non-Chiselapp (lua.sqlite.org)
> repo is syncing fine. [Note that I did `fossil configuration push all` on
> only one of my local repos, so this isn't the cause of my problem, as I
> speculated below.]
>

I can clone, over TLS, one of the many public repos, but I don't have
access to any of them to sync.

> e

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---
inum: 883510009027723
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Re: [fossil-users] cannot connect to host

[Doug Currie]

Thanks, Goyo. My problem seems to be SSL

>> SSL: cannot connect to host chiselapp.com:443 ()

e

On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 12:17 PM, Goyo  wrote:

> I can sync with chiselapp using http. My fossil is built without ssl
> so I can't try https.
>
> 2015-08-31 18:08 GMT+02:00 Doug Currie :
> > Is anyone else having trouble syncing with Chiselapp lately? None of my
> > Chiselapp local repos can sync, whereas my non-Chiselapp (lua.sqlite.org
> )
> > repo is syncing fine. [Note that I did `fossil configuration push all` on
> > only one of my local repos, so this isn't the cause of my problem, as I
> > speculated below.]
> >
> > e
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Aug 28, 2015 at 11:29 PM, Doug Currie 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> This "cannot connect to host" question has come up before, but earlier
> >> threads on this subject seem to lead to server credentials/certificate
> >> re-configuration or mis-configuration, and in this case I'm using
> >> chiselapp...
> >>
> >> Sync to chiselapp was working for me three days ago. The last sync that
> >> worked was a configuration push to update the wiki:
> >>
> >> e$ fossil configuration push all
> >> Round-trips: 1   Artifacts sent: 0  received: 0
> >> Push done, sent: 874  received: 260  ip: 216.250.117.7
> >>
> >> (Maybe I broke something by pushing 'all' from local to chiselapp?)
> >>
> >> Today I get:
> >>
> >> e$ fossil sync
> >> Sync with https://e...@chiselapp.com/user/e/repository/myrepo
> >> SSL: cannot connect to host chiselapp.com:443 ()
> >> Sync done, sent: 0  received: 0  ip:
> >>
> >> I can log onto chiselapp on https://chiselapp.com and access the repo,
> so
> >> the route is fine.
> >>
> >> I updated and rebuilt fossil and tried again to no avail.
> >>
> >> e$ fossil version
> >> This is fossil version 1.33 [d43847c968] 2015-08-27 14:24:09 UTC
> >>
> >> This is on Mac OS X 10.10.5
> >>
> >> Any ideas?
> >>
> >> Thanks.
> >>
> >> e
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > fossil-users mailing list
> > fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org
> > http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users
> >
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Re: [fossil-users] Markdown checkin comments and tickets (was: Multi line formatting)

[Stephan Beal]

On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 6:40 PM, Warren Young  wrote:

> On Aug 30, 2015, at 2:27 AM, Stephan Beal  wrote:
> > it opens up many more potential failure cases
>
> I don’t see what’s difficult about failing a transaction if a hook is
> defined and the external program call fails.  All the difficult parts are
> fobbed off on the person writing the hook script.
>

i make a commit locally. i push. The push fails because a remote hook
disallows it. What then? How do we resolve my repo's discrepancy at that
point? That becomes fossil's problem because people will (rightfully) want
to retain the data they just committed.


> > what happens to a commit if an http connection to an external server,
> used by a trigger, cannot be established?
>
> The commit fails, same as if the process of attempting the commit causes
> any other error, such as a fork without --allow-fork.
>

The _push_ fails. The commit has long-since happened locally.


> > Many hosting environments do not allow hosted scripts/apps to establish
> outbound connections with external servers
>
> If you’re on such a host, you don’t get to use hooks.  Switch to a
> different hosting provider if you need hooks.  There are dozens of
> bare-bones VPS and cloud hosting providers without this restriction.
>

Many commercial/enterprise environments don't allow this. We once, after 8
months of development using 'maven' as a build tool, had to port everything
to ant after discovering that the remote site does not allow external
internet access (in or out).


-- 
- stephan beal
http://wanderinghorse.net/home/stephan/
http://gplus.to/sgbeal
"Freedom is sloppy. But since tyranny's the only guaranteed byproduct of
those who insist on a perfect world, freedom will have to do." -- Bigby Wolf
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Re: [fossil-users] Markdown checkin comments and tickets (was: Multi line formatting)

[Warren Young]

On Aug 30, 2015, at 2:27 AM, Stephan Beal  wrote:
> 
> On Sun, Aug 30, 2015 at 10:15 AM, Baptiste Daroussin 
>  wrote:
> > Number #1 is the inhability to run "external" hooks easily
> 
> it's difficult to do portably

system() is ANSI C.

There are many external programs you can call that way.  All that’s needed is 
some kind of hook-calling protocol, a la CGI.

> it opens up many more potential failure cases

I don’t see what’s difficult about failing a transaction if a hook is defined 
and the external program call fails.  All the difficult parts are fobbed off on 
the person writing the hook script.

> what happens to a commit if an http connection to an external server, used by 
> a trigger, cannot be established?

The commit fails, same as if the process of attempting the commit causes any 
other error, such as a fork without --allow-fork.

> Many hosting environments do not allow hosted scripts/apps to establish 
> outbound connections with external servers

If you’re on such a host, you don’t get to use hooks.  Switch to a different 
hosting provider if you need hooks.  There are dozens of bare-bones VPS and 
cloud hosting providers without this restriction.

Also, this restriction only affects those who go out of their way to use hooks. 
 If you don’t define any hooks, Fossil will behave the same as it does today.

> Fossil does have basic hooks support in the form of TH1/TCL scripts,

You have to configure Fossil with --with-th1-hooks to enable it.

Also, as far as I can tell, TH1 doesn’t have the power to implement an SMTP 
client or call out to an external one anyway.  (i.e. no equivalent of 
connect(2) or system(3).)

I was curious how Git handles this, and to a first approximation, it doesn’t.  
It includes a 1,700 line Perl script which either calls out to sendmail(1) or 
uses the Perl Net::SMTP library to do all the heavy lifting.

https://github.com/git/git/blob/master/git-send-email.perl

My point above is that even these options aren’t available to TH1.

I see that Fossil has --with-tcl, which might be able to solve this, but I 
don’t see any documentation explaining it on the Fossil site.

> There is no _portable_ external provider API for sending mails.

Not for C, true, but Tcl can do it: http://wiki.tcl.tk/1256

For platforms where linking to Tcl isn’t suitable, TH1 could add the exec and 
open commands:

   https://www.tcl.tk/man/tcl8.5/tutorial/Tcl26.html

Then Fossil proper wouldn’t have to worry about such things as how to send 
email.

> My point was not so much about the multiline support, but the lack (in my 
> experience) of need for book-length commit messages. Without those, the lack 
> of multi-line support is moot.

Straw man.  Adding a small bit of markup to a commit message is not writing 
books.  And it’s a good thing, since Markdown is not the right formatting 
system for book production anyway.

Most of the code needed to do this is in Fossil already.
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Re: [fossil-users] cannot connect to host

[Goyo]

I can sync with chiselapp using http. My fossil is built without ssl
so I can't try https.

2015-08-31 18:08 GMT+02:00 Doug Currie :
> Is anyone else having trouble syncing with Chiselapp lately? None of my
> Chiselapp local repos can sync, whereas my non-Chiselapp (lua.sqlite.org)
> repo is syncing fine. [Note that I did `fossil configuration push all` on
> only one of my local repos, so this isn't the cause of my problem, as I
> speculated below.]
>
> e
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 28, 2015 at 11:29 PM, Doug Currie  wrote:
>>
>> This "cannot connect to host" question has come up before, but earlier
>> threads on this subject seem to lead to server credentials/certificate
>> re-configuration or mis-configuration, and in this case I'm using
>> chiselapp...
>>
>> Sync to chiselapp was working for me three days ago. The last sync that
>> worked was a configuration push to update the wiki:
>>
>> e$ fossil configuration push all
>> Round-trips: 1   Artifacts sent: 0  received: 0
>> Push done, sent: 874  received: 260  ip: 216.250.117.7
>>
>> (Maybe I broke something by pushing 'all' from local to chiselapp?)
>>
>> Today I get:
>>
>> e$ fossil sync
>> Sync with https://e...@chiselapp.com/user/e/repository/myrepo
>> SSL: cannot connect to host chiselapp.com:443 ()
>> Sync done, sent: 0  received: 0  ip:
>>
>> I can log onto chiselapp on https://chiselapp.com and access the repo, so
>> the route is fine.
>>
>> I updated and rebuilt fossil and tried again to no avail.
>>
>> e$ fossil version
>> This is fossil version 1.33 [d43847c968] 2015-08-27 14:24:09 UTC
>>
>> This is on Mac OS X 10.10.5
>>
>> Any ideas?
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> e
>
>
>
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Re: [fossil-users] cannot connect to host

[Doug Currie]

Is anyone else having trouble syncing with Chiselapp lately? None of
my Chiselapp local repos can sync, whereas my non-Chiselapp (lua.sqlite.org)
repo is syncing fine. [Note that I did `fossil configuration push all` on
only one of my local repos, so this isn't the cause of my problem, as I
speculated below.]

e


On Fri, Aug 28, 2015 at 11:29 PM, Doug Currie  wrote:

> This "cannot connect to host" question has come up before, but earlier
> threads on this subject seem to lead to server credentials/certificate
> re-configuration or mis-configuration, and in this case I'm using
> chiselapp...
>
> Sync to chiselapp was working for me three days ago. The last sync that
> worked was a configuration push to update the wiki:
>
> e$ fossil configuration push all
> Round-trips: 1   Artifacts sent: 0  received: 0
> Push done, sent: 874  received: 260  ip: 216.250.117.7
>
> (Maybe I broke something by pushing 'all' from local to chiselapp?)
>
> Today I get:
>
> e$ fossil sync
> Sync with https://e...@chiselapp.com/user/e/repository/myrepo
> SSL: cannot connect to host chiselapp.com:443 ()
> Sync done, sent: 0  received: 0  ip:
>
> I can log onto chiselapp on https://chiselapp.com and access the repo, so
> the route is fine.
>
> I updated and rebuilt fossil and tried again to no avail.
>
> e$ fossil version
> This is fossil version 1.33 [d43847c968] 2015-08-27 14:24:09 UTC
>
> This is on Mac OS X 10.10.5
>
> Any ideas?
>
> Thanks.
>
> e
>
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