Re: [Foundation-l] Sue Gardner, Erik Möller , Wi lliam Pietri: Where is FlaggedRevisions?

2010-03-02 Thread Michael Peel

On 2 Mar 2010, at 01:18, MZMcBride wrote:

 You know what sounds toxic? The
 claim that a man is a new resident in the area and a known child  
 molester.
 That's been in one of our articles for months and months; the only  
 provided
 source is a dead link that's part of an advocacy site.


Reverted last night by Wjhonson, for anyone wondering:
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php? 
title=West_Memphis_3action=historysubmitdiff=347211677oldid=346894057

Mike


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Re: [Foundation-l] [Announcement] Extension of user experience work

2010-03-02 Thread Naoko Komura
Dear Delphine, Aphaia, Mike and those who congratulated us off the list,

Thank you for your kind words and encouragements.  We, the user experience 
programs team, are very excited and grateful to be able to continue improving 
the usability and user experience of Wikimedia projects.  

The Stanton usability project is in the final phase, but we are still 
developing one of the most complicated features we worked so far,collapsing 
and form-based templates.  We are faced with a lot of challenges, but we hope 
to be able to share the prototype in coming weeks.

The success of the usability initiative so far could not have been possible 
without the strong support and constructive critiques from the community 
members who constantly participated in design discussion, prototype testing, 
provided feedback through the beta survey.  I also want to acknowledge various 
community members who not only raised the usability to be address as high 
priority task, but actually took actions in improving the usability since 2005. 
 To name a few, Openusability.org conducted usability study with Ellen Reitmayr 
in Germany in 2006 and published the result.  Robert Stojnic implemented the 
proposed search result page in a matter of weeks after the mock-up was uploaded 
to the usability wiki. Kozuch and Mephiles602 constantly helped maintain the 
usability wiki in addition to participating the discussion of new features and 
designs.  Nihiltres, who was the member of 2005 WikiProject Usability, reminded 
us when our beta stopped working on iPhone.  Cbrown tested RTL display and 
files a bug.  Aphia found a bug in Japanese prototype.  Cary and Mike jumped in 
when there were severe incidents of vandalism on the usability wiki.  They all 
contributed more than my simple list here, but what I want to say is they all 
made a difference in our project.  The list goes on and on, and I am only 
naming a few folks here, who came to my mind while I type this email.  (Forgive 
me for the names I have omitted here in advance.)  

Multimedia usability project continues while the Stanton usability team shifts 
the focus from simplifying the editing interface to rich text editor and a 
research of social interactive component of the user experience.  Strategy 
Planning Team published rich contents under Community Health, which we will be 
studying carefully and determine which area we should focus first.  

Thanks again for your encouragements.  It is great to be part of the permanent 
member of the Wikimedia community. :-)

Cheers,

- Naoko







-- 
Support Free Knowledge:  http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate



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Re: [Foundation-l] [Announcement] Extension of user experience work

2010-03-02 Thread David Gerard
On 2 March 2010 09:19, Naoko Komura nkom...@wikimedia.org wrote:

 The Stanton usability project is in the final phase, but we are still 
 developing one of the most complicated features we worked so far,    
 collapsing and form-based templates.  We are faced with a lot of challenges, 
 but we hope to be able to share the prototype in coming weeks.


Usable WYSIWYG for templates will do *wonders* for contributions to
en:wp. Wikitext has pretty much turned into impenetrable computer
guacamole for non-technical prospective contributors. Even I find it
daunting.

(I look forward to Greg Maxwell's bug reports, he's been doing rather
well at breaking the Wikia WYSIWYG ;-)


- d.

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Re: [Foundation-l] Sue Gardner, Erik Möller , Wi lliam Pietri: Where is FlaggedRevisions?

2010-03-02 Thread Anthony
On Mon, Mar 1, 2010 at 8:18 PM, MZMcBride z...@mzmcbride.com wrote:

 You know what sounds toxic? The
 claim that a man is a new resident in the area and a known child
 molester.
 That's been in one of our articles for months and months; the only provided
 source is a dead link that's part of an advocacy site.


You think people are going to actually fact check links before flagging an
edit.  Ha!
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Re: [Foundation-l] Sue Gardner, Erik Möller , Will iam Pietri: Where is FlaggedRevisions?

2010-03-02 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi,
Some will, the ones that don't do a reasonable job may lose their flagging
capability or get flagged as an appreciation for the quality of their work.
Thanks,
 GerardM

PS Please be a bit more considerate, a bit more positive ...

On 2 March 2010 17:20, Anthony wikim...@inbox.org wrote:

 On Mon, Mar 1, 2010 at 8:18 PM, MZMcBride z...@mzmcbride.com wrote:

  You know what sounds toxic? The
  claim that a man is a new resident in the area and a known child
  molester.
  That's been in one of our articles for months and months; the only
 provided
  source is a dead link that's part of an advocacy site.
 

 You think people are going to actually fact check links before flagging an
 edit.  Ha!
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[Foundation-l] Building up the reserves

2010-03-02 Thread Gregory Kohs
The recent 6-month financial report indicates at the end of 2008,
there was $6.67 million sitting in a savings account. At the end of
2009, it's $12.56 million. Do individual contributors and
organizations who are donating to the Wikimedia Foundation realize
that nearly $6 million of last year's funds were simply put into the
bank?  Do you think donors think this is an important mission, to
build up the savings account?

-- 
Gregory Kohs

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Re: [Foundation-l] Building up the reserves

2010-03-02 Thread David Gerard
On 2 March 2010 04:37, Gregory Kohs thekoh...@gmail.com wrote:

  Do you think donors think this is an important mission, to
 build up the savings account?


Yes. Getting out of living hand-to-mouth and building an actual
ongoing reserve has been an express goal over the past few years.


- d.

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Re: [Foundation-l] Sue Gardner, Erik Möller , Wi lliam Pietri: Where is FlaggedRevisions?

2010-03-02 Thread Anthony
On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 12:16 PM, Gerard Meijssen
gerard.meijs...@gmail.comwrote:

 Hoi,
 Some will, the ones that don't do a reasonable job may lose their flagging
 capability or get flagged as an appreciation for the quality of their work.
 Thanks,
 GerardM

 PS Please be a bit more considerate, a bit more positive ...


C'mon Gerard, I'm not going to pretend that flagged revisions, as
currently proposed to be implemented, is going to be a magical silver
bullet, just so I can be positive and upbeat (and considerate???).  The fact
of the matter is that I am quite convinced that the current proposed
implementation of flagged revisions is going to help very little, and in
some instances may actually make things worse.

Yes, I realize the decision has already been made to go ahead and implement
this feature.  And I'm hoping along with the rest of you that it gets
implemented as soon as possible.  But I'm not going to pretend it's a
particularly good idea.  I hope it gets implemented as soon as possible
because once it does maybe people can see its failure and start thinking
about some real solutions.

The ones that don't do a reasonable job may lose their flagging capability?
What's a reasonable job?  Are people *supposed* to fact-check everything
before they flag an edit?  Are they *supposed* to verify all references?
What if those references aren't available online?  Would the person who
flagged the edit about

What are we currently doing when people edit about JM Sr. lose her flagging
capability?  Would she even be admonished?  The source most likely was not
broken at the time it was added.  It wasn't a particularly good source, but
can you imagine the Wikipedia community taking away flagging privileges over
a dispute over the reliability of a source?

Is [[User:W guice]] going to be admonished for this edit (
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=West_Memphis_3diff=336279698oldid=334567668).
S/he made a typographical fix to the paragraph in question.  Has anyone even
found the person who added the paragraph in the first place?  Is that person
going to lose their editing capability for not doing a reasonable job?
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Re: [Foundation-l] Building up the reserves

2010-03-02 Thread Bod Notbod
On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 6:00 PM, Anthony wikim...@inbox.org wrote:

 Yeah, IIRC it was one of the suggestions of the auditors a few years ago.
 How much would you say needs to be saved up before WMF is no longer living
 hand-to-mouth?

Very interesting question. Presumably it can be expressed as a
percentage of yearly running costs? I would be curious to know of an
answer to this.

Anybody familiar with other non-profits in this regard?

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Re: [Foundation-l] Sue Gardner, Erik Möller , Wi lliam Pietri: Where is FlaggedRevisions?

2010-03-02 Thread Peter Gervai
On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 18:37, Anthony wikim...@inbox.org wrote:

  I hope it gets implemented as soon as possible
 because once it does maybe people can see its failure and start thinking
 about some real solutions.

Are you aware of the fact that it's been used in non-English
wikipedias for years? And it's been quite a successful feature.

YMMV.
grin

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Re: [Foundation-l] Sue Gardner, Erik Möller , Will iam Pietri: Where is FlaggedRevisions?

2010-03-02 Thread Thomas Dalton
On 2 March 2010 12:28, Peter Gervai grin...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 18:37, Anthony wikim...@inbox.org wrote:

  I hope it gets implemented as soon as possible
 because once it does maybe people can see its failure and start thinking
 about some real solutions.

 Are you aware of the fact that it's been used in non-English
 wikipedias for years? And it's been quite a successful feature.

Years is a bit of an exaggeration. German Wikipedia was first and
that was May 6, 2008. That's a little under 2 years. I don't think
anyone has actually done any objective review of its success.

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[Foundation-l] There is a Malayalam mobile Wikipedia homepage

2010-03-02 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi,
Last week Thursday there was no localisation for the Malayalam wikipedi, it
did not have a mobile main page.. Today it is the first language of India
that has the best support we can offer to mobile telephones. According to
many, the mobile phone will generate much of our future traffic..

I hope and expect that India will amaze us and grow a vibrant and rich
community for all its languages.
Thanks,
 GerardM

http://ml.m.wikipedia.org
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Re: [Foundation-l] Sue Gardner, Erik Möller , Wi lliam Pietri: Where is FlaggedRevisions?

2010-03-02 Thread Peter Gervai
On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 21:36, Thomas Dalton thomas.dal...@gmail.com wrote:

 Are you aware of the fact that it's been used in non-English
 wikipedias for years? And it's been quite a successful feature.

 Years is a bit of an exaggeration. German Wikipedia was first and
 that was May 6, 2008. That's a little under 2 years.

I stand corrected. It's been used for more than a year now, ...

Much better, you're right. ;-)

 I don't think anyone has actually done any objective review of its success.

Which does not imply it's been a failure. But generally my measure would be
a) bad mood/stress level of the editors doing patrolling (which by my
educated guess went down), and
b) the incidents of indecent/unwanted content appearing for the wide
public (which by my observation definitely went down, my guess is
close to zero).

There are people who thought it's a miracle and now disappointed that
it wasn't. It doesn't solve world peace, hunger, and article quality
problems, among other things. But what it does is basically make usual
vandalism pointless.

At least on my home wiki, huwp.

Still it's okay for me to have it implemented and let people to see
_whether_ it's a failure.
-- 
 byte-byte,
grin

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Re: [Foundation-l] Sue Gardner, Erik Möller , Will iam Pietri: Where is FlaggedRevisions?

2010-03-02 Thread Thomas Dalton
On 2 March 2010 13:04, Peter Gervai grin...@gmail.com wrote:
 Which does not imply it's been a failure. But generally my measure would be
 a) bad mood/stress level of the editors doing patrolling (which by my
 educated guess went down), and
 b) the incidents of indecent/unwanted content appearing for the wide
 public (which by my observation definitely went down, my guess is
 close to zero).

What about c) people not editing (or not continuing to edit) because
they don't like their edits not going live immediately? Any data on
that?

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Re: [Foundation-l] �lliam Pietri: Where is Flagge dRevisions?

2010-03-02 Thread Mike.lifeguard
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 37-01--10 03:59 PM, Peter Gervai wrote:
 Are you aware of the fact that it's been used in non-English
 wikipedias for years? And it's been quite a successful feature.
 
 YMMV.
 grin
 
 

Are you aware it's been used on enwikibooks too? And has been quite a
failure there?

YMMV.
- -Mike
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Re: [Foundation-l] Sue Gardner, Erik M�ller , W illiam Pietri: Where is FlaggedRevisions?

2010-03-02 Thread Mike.lifeguard
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 37-01--10 03:59 PM, Thomas Dalton wrote:
 What about c) people not editing (or not continuing to edit) because
 they don't like their edits not going live immediately? Any data on
 that?

I think this is one of the two main reasons flagged revs has failed on
enwikibooks. The other being that we lack sufficient manpower to get
enough reviewing done to make it worthwhile.

I hope the usability work being done (I assume, I've not seen the
commits) on the extension will make what manpower we *do* have stretch
further.

I don't know if there is even a theoretical solution to the first problem.

- -Mike
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Re: [Foundation-l] Sue Gardner, Erik Möller , Wi lliam Pietri: Where is FlaggedRevisions?

2010-03-02 Thread Anthony
On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 3:28 PM, Peter Gervai grin...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 18:37, Anthony wikim...@inbox.org wrote:

   I hope it gets implemented as soon as possible
  because once it does maybe people can see its failure and start thinking
  about some real solutions.

 Are you aware of the fact that it's been used in non-English
 wikipedias for years? And it's been quite a successful feature.


I'm aware of the fact that a different form of it than the one proposed for
the English Wikipedia, has been used for quite a while on the German
Wikipedia (apparently May 6, 2008).  I assume other language Wikipedias have
followed suit.

I'm not aware of how successful it was on the German Wikipedia, and I'm also
not aware of how closely the problems and cultures of the German Wikipedia
are to the English Wikipedia.  I'd love to hear any insights you have on
this.
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Re: [Foundation-l] Sue Gardner, Erik Möller , Wi lliam Pietri: Where is FlaggedRevisions?

2010-03-02 Thread Anthony
On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 4:04 PM, Peter Gervai grin...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 21:36, Thomas Dalton thomas.dal...@gmail.com
 wrote:
  I don't think anyone has actually done any objective review of its
 success.

 Which does not imply it's been a failure.


No, of course not.  What it implies is that a claim that it's been quite a
successful feature should be disregarded unless and until some actually
objective review is presented.

But generally my measure would be
 a) bad mood/stress level of the editors doing patrolling (which by my
 educated guess went down), and

b) the incidents of indecent/unwanted content appearing for the wide
 public (which by my observation definitely went down, my guess is
 close to zero).

 There are people who thought it's a miracle and now disappointed that
 it wasn't. It doesn't solve world peace, hunger, and article quality
 problems, among other things. But what it does is basically make usual
 vandalism pointless.

 At least on my home wiki, huwp.

 Still it's okay for me to have it implemented and let people to see
 _whether_ it's a failure.


Okay, good point, you're right.  I've been known to be wrong from time to
time, so I should leave room for the possibility that this is one of those
times.  Maybe it will be a success.  Maybe it'll cut down drastically on the
stupid obvious vandalism, thereby freeing people up to concentrate on the
tricky subtle vandalism.  Or maybe the culture of the English Wikipedia is
just drastically different from the Hungarian Wikipedia, and the total
amount of vandalism won't go down much at all - it'll just get trickier and
more subtle, and the vandal-fighters will wind up spending more time and not
less.  Unfortunately, if I had to bet, I'd bet on the latter.

In any case, the kind of problem which Mr. McBride (?) was complaining about
doesn't fall under usual vandalism anyway.

Anthony
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[Foundation-l] Texas Instruments signing key controversy

2010-03-02 Thread Techman224
It has come to my attention that the Wikimedia Foundation through its Office 
actions policy removed and oversighted the signing keys for Texas Instruments 
calculators under a DMCA takedown notice on October 7, 2009. Cary Bass then 
oversighted all revisions that had the signing keys. Let me just say it might 
not be necessary to continue to block the signing keys. The Electronic Frontier 
Foundation has reported that they warned Texas Instruments about the DMCA 
notices as noted, the DMCA explicitly allows reverse engineering to create 
interoperable custom software like the programs the hobbyists are using. [1]. 
Further Texas Instruments failed to respond to the letter and the deadline, so 
the bloggers who put up the codes put them back up. [2] Also a student at a 
university who posted the keys to his own personal page at the university filed 
a DMCA 512 counternotice. With all of this is mind, as since the keys are still 
up today, could we please remove the Office action and allow the keys to be 
posted, and un-oversight all the revisions so we could end all this vandalism 
and controversy on-wiki? It would be a good step to tell Texas Instruments that 
this is just a Baseless Legal Threat. Also, if it's not lifted, could the 
Foundation explain why isn't removing the Office action? If we do allow the 
keys on Wikipedia, I pretty much think the EFF would support us all the way.

Thanks,

Techman224

Links:

[1] http://www.eff.org/press/archives/2009/10/13
[2] http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2009/10/texas-instruments-stop-digging-holes
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Re: [Foundation-l] Texas Instruments signing key controversy

2010-03-02 Thread Techman224
Re-sending message, the mail server doesn't like html :(


It has come to my attention that the Wikimedia Foundation through its Office 
actions policy removed and oversighted the signing keys for Texas Instruments 
calculators under a DMCA takedown notice on October 7, 2009. Cary Bass then 
oversighted all revisions that had the signing keys. Let me just say it might 
not be necessary to continue to block the signing keys. The Electronic Frontier 
Foundation has reported that they warned Texas Instruments about the DMCA 
notices as noted, the DMCA explicitly allows reverse engineering to create 
interoperable custom software like the programs the hobbyists are using. [1]. 
Further Texas Instruments failed to respond to the letter and the deadline, so 
the bloggers who put up the codes put them back up. [2] Also a student at a 
university who posted the keys to his own personal page at the university filed 
a DMCA 512 counternotice. With all of this is mind, as since the keys are still 
up today, could we please remove the Office action and allow the keys to be 
posted, and un-oversight all the revisions so we could end all this vandalism 
and controversy on-wiki? It would be a good step to tell Texas Instruments that 
this is just a Baseless Legal Threat. Also, if it's not lifted, could the 
Foundation explain why isn't removing the Office action? If we do allow the 
keys on Wikipedia, I pretty much think the EFF would support us all the way.

Thanks,

Techman224

Links:

[1] http://www.eff.org/press/archives/2009/10/13
[2] http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2009/10/texas-instruments-stop-digging-holes
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Re: [Foundation-l] Texas Instruments signing key controversy

2010-03-02 Thread Dan Rosenthal
I think you're misconstruing who is doing what here. The Foundation is not the 
person required to send the counter notice, nor do they have the freedom or 
the obligation to involve themselves in a copyright dispute between TI and 
another user. It's not their determination to make whether the action is 
necessary or not.

-Dan
On Mar 2, 2010, at 9:50 PM, Techman224 wrote:

 It has come to my attention that the Wikimedia Foundation through its Office 
 actions policy removed and oversighted the signing keys for Texas 
 Instruments calculators under a DMCA takedown notice on October 7, 2009. Cary 
 Bass then oversighted all revisions that had the signing keys. Let me just 
 say it might not be necessary to continue to block the signing keys. The 
 Electronic Frontier Foundation has reported that they warned Texas 
 Instruments about the DMCA notices as noted, the DMCA explicitly allows 
 reverse engineering to create interoperable custom software like the programs 
 the hobbyists are using. [1]. Further Texas Instruments failed to respond to 
 the letter and the deadline, so the bloggers who put up the codes put them 
 back up. [2] Also a student at a university who posted the keys to his own 
 personal page at the university filed a DMCA 512 counternotice. With all of 
 this is mind, as since the keys are still up today, could we please remove 
 the Office action and allow the keys to be posted, and un-oversight all the 
 revisions so we could end all this vandalism and controversy on-wiki? It 
 would be a good step to tell Texas Instruments that this is just a Baseless 
 Legal Threat. Also, if it's not lifted, could the Foundation explain why 
 isn't removing the Office action? If we do allow the keys on Wikipedia, I 
 pretty much think the EFF would support us all the way.
 
 Thanks,
 
 Techman224
 
 Links:
 
 [1] http://www.eff.org/press/archives/2009/10/13
 [2] http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2009/10/texas-instruments-stop-digging-holes
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Re: [Foundation-l] Discussion about proposal for multilingual Wikibooks

2010-03-02 Thread Milos Rancic
On Sat, Feb 27, 2010 at 6:32 PM, Milos Rancic mill...@gmail.com wrote:
 I am cleaning Requests for new languages [1] at Meta. Some of the
 requests are clearly out of the Language committee scope, and they
 need wider discussion for concluding them.

 One of such requests is for multilingual Wikibooks [2]. Please,
 discuss here (at foundation-l; I am sending this message to textbook-l
 to poke those who are not at foundation-l) or on wiki at the page [2].

 [1] - http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages
 [2] - 
 http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikibooks_Multilingual


The request has been rejected as invalid. The explanation for
rejection is below:

According to the Language proposal policy, Language committee may
approve just a project which intends to be written in one language.
Thus, this proposal is invalid. If you want to create multilingual
Wikibooks, please create a page Multilingual Wikibooks and start
discussion about the idea at textbook-l. --Millosh 06:15, 3 March 2010
(UTC)

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Re: [Foundation-l] Discussion about proposal for multilingual Wiktionary

2010-03-02 Thread Milos Rancic
On Sat, Feb 27, 2010 at 6:32 PM, Milos Rancic mill...@gmail.com wrote:
 I am cleaning Requests for new languages [1] at Meta. Some of the
 requests are clearly out of the Language committee scope, and they
 need wider discussion for concluding them.

 One of such requests is for multilingual Wiktionary [2]. Please,
 discuss here (at foundation-l; I am sending this message to
 wiktionary-l to poke those who are not at foundation-l) or on wiki at
 the page [2].

 [1] - http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages
 [2] - 
 http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wiktionary_multilingual


The request has been rejected as invalid. The explanation for
rejection is below:

According to the Language proposal policy, Language committee may
approve just a project which intends to be written in one language.
Thus, this proposal is invalid. If you want to create multilingual
Wiktionary, please create a page Multilingual Wiktionary and start
discussion about the idea at wiktionary-l. Note, also, that there is a
free content project OmegaWiki, which is in fact multilingual
Wiktionary. --Millosh  06:18, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

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Re: [Foundation-l] Discussion about proposal for multilingual Wikinews

2010-03-02 Thread Milos Rancic
On Sat, Feb 27, 2010 at 6:32 PM, Milos Rancic mill...@gmail.com wrote:
 I am cleaning Requests for new languages [1] at Meta. Some of the
 requests are clearly out of the Language committee scope, and they
 need wider discussion for concluding them.

 One of such requests is for multilingual Wikinews [2]. Please, discuss
 here (at foundation-l; I am sending this message to wikinews-l to poke
 those who are not at foundation-l) or on wiki at the page [2].

 [1] - http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages
 [2] - 
 http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikinews_multilingual


The request has been rejected as invalid. The explanation for
rejection is below:

According to the Language proposal policy, Language committee may
approve just a project which intends to be written in one language.
Thus, this proposal is invalid. If you want to create multilingual
Wikinews, please create a page Multilingual Wikinews and start
discussion about the idea at wikinews-l. --Millosh  06:16, 3 March
2010 (UTC)

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